/lit/ - Literature

Is this unironically worth playing as literature?

>>13365990
not worth your time, neither as a game nor as a narrative piece. even baldur's gate aged better than it, and provides the better ludonarrative experience.

>>13365990
No. I tried reading it not that long and it didn't feel particularly special as far as RPGs go. And I don't like RPGs so I dropped it. It's a video game, not a book.

>>13365915
Unfortunately, it did age like wet trash.

"the alchemist" of videogames

>>13365990
The type of people who think PS:T is literature are the kind of people who read fantasy novels for inane "world-building" details.

yeah if you're 16

>>13365915

>>13365990

It's pretty good as a fantasy novel but I don't get the hype, especially when people say it's a great philosophical exploration. At least it's not another fucking Tolkien rehash.

Are there any other /lit/ games than mgs 2?

I personaly find videogames to be the medium which has least fulfilled it's potential.

>>13366052
I might have liked it if it were an actual novel. But I hate having to play a game to get access to a story that I want to read. Visual novels are about the maximum amount of gameplay that I can stomach, and even with those I'm not particularly fond of the choice system and always use a walkthrough.

>>13366061
space funeral, unironically

KOTOR 2 was more fun

>>13366066

Yeah, same. I also hate reading stuff on the PC, my eyes get tired easy. Only visual novel I struggled through was Va-11 Hall-a because I like the subject.

I personally hate that obsession with turning games and comics into literature. I think they are way better off when they extrapolate the limits of their own medium rather than just emulating another.

Also, for some reason I always thought Planescape was written by the same guy of The Longest Journey, but they weren't. No wonder I thought the latter was so bad compared to the former.

>>13366061

I feel like people expect that for videogames to "mature" they need to become what they are not, like when all the 'walk simulators' became all the rage and art critics that always act snobbish towards videogames began praising them because of narrative sensibilities. Not to say they aren't proper games, they are a nice and valid experiment, but they don't really do anything revolutionary. They are a washed down but prettier version of adventure games.

I find the efforts of games like Metroid Prime, Hollow Knight or even Killer 7 far more interesting than those kinds of games that try to be 'literary' or 'cinematic' for the sake of it because, even if they haven't anything close to stellar narratives and writing, they are everything that videogames should actually strive to be about.

But well, for a 'lit' experience I recommend Beeswing and Dujanah. Probably the only two that could really fit that. I also saw someone mention Darkwood once, it does look interesting.

>>13365990
Like literature? No, this is a game. But is easily the best RPG of all the time with one of the best story out there. But you need to git gud so you don't end up like these retards.

>>13366000
>>13366002
>>13366031
>>13366052
You're on the same level that gaming "journalist".

>>13366202

No idea why you quoted me.

>>13366061
ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Planescape: Torment and some absurdistcore (Space Funeral, for example) are pretty artistic, but more importantly, we need more games that actually utilize its medium instead of trying to copy others. That's why Deus Ex is a masterpiece. Not because it tries to be some experience that transcends its art form, but because it utilizes the elements of its medium in such a god tier way. Each level is sprawling, with many possibilities when it comes to playing the game. This freedom of choice is not possible in other mediums. Also, the numerous references (be they literary or not) just add to the experience. Another example of a game that utilizes its medium to its full efficiency is E.Y.E. - Divine Cybermancy.
I know games aren't seen as high art here, but as a guy whose favorite mediums are literature and vidya, I urge anyone reading this to give games a chance. You don't need to play literally everything, even if it's good (for example, Cave Story is a pretty good game, but I would understand why people would dislike it or wouldn't want to play it), but there's still plenty of worthy stuff to experience. There's no need to cut off yourself from any medium, including video games.

>>13366202
>But is easily the best RPG
It‘s shit as a game.

>>13366253
>we need more games

>>13366061
Pathologic (2)
Tension (The Void with Polish translation patch)

>>13366258
>look mom, I posted it again!

>>13366269
>BIBEO GAYEMES ARE ART!!!111

>>13366254

>>13366275
based retard

>>13366253
>but more importantly, we need more games that actually utilize its medium instead of trying to copy others

Someone fucking gets it holy shit

>>13366253
Would add on Steam/10

>>13366282
>>13366275
>>13366258
>>13366269
Fuck off

>>13366290
>HOLY SHIEET! THANK GOD SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS WE NEED MOOOOAAAAR VEEGEA GOYMES!!11

>>13366253
>utilize its medium instead
>god tier way
>sprawling, with many possibilities
>references add to experience
You haven't said anything of substance. What makes the game art?

>>13366031
This.
Torment reads like mostly shit. Characters are exposition dumps and the dialogue comes off as an author's world-building manual for another actual book. It makes JR look lively by comparison.

>>13366315
>haven't said anything of substance
Good job on taking the shit I said out of context, you cretin. The main point of video games is gameplay, because that's the only thing it has that no other medium does (since you can read text in literature as well). The more choice you have in a video game and the more complex the mechanics are, the better it is. You can also argue that difficulty (but not artificial difficulty) is also one of the most important things, since it's related to motor coordination as opposed to a "mental" difficulty of reading a complex book. The former isn't present in any other medium as well.

>>13366315
All things that are intended to be viewed as art. Is art. That's it. Then you can argue if it's good art or not.

People that still bring up what "makes" something art are fucking retarded. Everything that is created is art.

>>13365915

Playing Tyranny right now. It's pretty good desu. Pretty interesting basic fantasy writing. It kills a morning nicely with some filter coffee. I'm based.

>>13366315

The discussion of "are games art" is inane and pointless, but what exactly doesn't make it art?

The people I always see snubbing videogames are the same who revere stuff like pic related as art. I honestly don't get it.

This discussion always pop up whenever a new medium is born. It was like this with movies and comics, and now videogames, and the arguments against games as art are always not only nonsensical, but worse, sometimes they come from people who never even played videogames (like Ebbert). I've never seen a good argument from either side.

>>13365915
Cringe

>>13366061
What makes MGS2 /lit/? Is it the philosophy dump at the end?

>>13366061
Bloodborne
It's unironically more interesting than Lovecraft.

>>13365915
dilate

back to /v/ with ya

>>13366061
fate stay night

>>13366397
That's part of it. But for me it's how the game plays with the concept of videogames and sequels. It also had a great sense of aesthetics, the design of the enviroment and characters. It takes risks and subverts you expectations (in a good way, the subersion in mgs 2 fits into the themes of the game and enchances it instead of doing it for a DUDE RANDOM LMAO)

There are also multiple layers of plot and analysis, the literal and the meta goes hand in hand. Also, the the story could only be told in a game, so it's art that is specific to it's medium and thus the pirest art it could be.

Some examples would be that playing the vr of mgs 1 is the direct backstory of raiden in mgs 2, and that raiden is first the avatar of the player and of the idea of solid snake until he is revealed as his own character through gameplay (katana section) and he literally throws away the name the player gives him.

Not even going into all the other vr stuff. And i also love the various surrealism present in the game that is really unusual for games and gives it a more auteur feel.

>>13366061
>ctrl f 'silent hill 2'
>no results

>>13366327
I didn't say video games are not art. You just just used a bunch of buzzwords and meaningless phrases on why you like Deus Ex.
>freedom of choice
>video game
That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? The choices you can make are restricted by the mechanics and whatever the programmer decides to code in. Besides, all the choices you make in the game are ultimately pointless anyway when the only outcomes are three different flavors of the same ending.

>>13366494
>a bunch of buzzwords and meaningless phrases
No, I addressed the main point - the gameplay.
>a contradiction
It would be if I said "absolute freedom".
>The choices you can make are restricted by the mechanics and whatever the programmer decides to code in
Yeah, no shit. You can't have infinite choices, the choices have to end somewhere for the product to get an outline and to be completed. Again, I didn't say "absolute freedom".
>are ultimately pointless anyway when the only outcomes are three different flavors of the same ending
Embarrassing. It's not about the very end of the game, but the many ways you can explore and beat each and every stage of the game.

>>13366509
>many ways you can explore and beat each and every stage of the game.
That doesn't matter. The point of a game is to win, and the best gamers win in the quickest and most efficient ways possible. There's no point to give yourself an artificial difficulty or handicap if there is nothing to gain from it, like a petty achievement, other than to say you did it. You're a bad gamer if you do this.

Am I alone here or did /lit/ become really toxit as of late?

>>13366554
>best gamers

>>13366554
>The point of a game is to win
It's about the journey, not the destination. I'd argue you're correct only if we're talking about games which put a focus on conquering challenges (like some NES classics, for example), but even then, you can argue that exploring Deus Ex's sprawling levels is equal to conquering a challenge.
>artificial difficulty
Exploring isn't artificial difficulty. Artificial difficulty would be (if we're talking about branching level design) equal to offering you, say, five paths, and then making four of them extremely hard to access, while the fifth one is easy to access but really difficult to beat.
>other than to say you did it
You don't have to say anything to anyone, you don't see me talking to everyone about my experiences with the game, I only do it when it's relevant to the discussion at hand.
>you're a bad gamer
So you've been baiting me all this time? At least I hope that's the case. How old are you anyways? You seem underage.

>>13366565
toxlit

>>13366581
>I only do it when it's relevant to the discussion at hand.
So, you are only doing it for social capital.
>So you've been baiting me all this time?
No, I am sincere.
>How old are you anyways?
30

>>13366671
>best gamers
>bad gamer
>30
I think you misspelled 13.

>>13366580
Cringe

>>13366554

>The point of a game is to win, and the best gamers win in the quickest and most efficient ways possible

The same could be said of speed readers. But the point of a book is not getting to the end. Neither is a game only point to win. Winning is only part of it, just like reaching the last page of a book. Your view is just shallow.

>>13366755
There are no winners and losers in reading. The best readers are those who comprehend the material the best. This strawman is so nad, I'm beginning to think you are underage. Are YOU underage?

The greatest games are those that overall changes people for the better. "Great" can only mean this. Nothing is great about something not changing you or something changing you for the worse.

We don't need more games. I'm tired of these fucking games. What we need is more ludo

*blocks you path

>>13365915
Stop making /vr/ look bad you neurotic dick.

>>13366000
cringe
>>13365990
it's great but not as literature. it's like a literature-game hybrid, think of it as to literature what metal gear is to movies

>>13366061
Morrowind.

>>13366631

>>13366779

>There are no winners and losers in reading.

You must be new here.

>>13366631

>>13365990
Not really, the prose is that of a mediocre Dungeon Master, aka boring as fuck. The characters are mostly clichéd archetypes (the grizzled badass buff warrior with amnesia and a dark past, the joking relxaed New York accent sidekick, the stoic serious monk with a crisis of faith, the naîve young rebellic girl with a taste for adventure, the motherly madonna) and barely achieve more complexity by the time you see them. Tops they get one backstory exposition dump, but they really do anything unexpected.

The story itself is a fairly bland typical story of redemption, with a barely existant first third, and unfocused middle part and an abysmal last third, the ending itself is overtly convenient, and the narrative too often falls into juvenile attempts at shock and mystery.

As far as game narratives go, Silent Hill 2, SOMA and Spec Ops: The Line run circles around it.

There are only two games I come back to after dropping them entirely in my teens.

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Insane game. What the actual fuck type of game. Nick Land plays this game. It's the closest we have to an authentic civilization simulator, yet it's a videogame. How did some second rate sci-fi writer and a team of autists were able to come up with such a realistic and visionnary "game" is one of the great mysteries of our time. Will probably be considered as the I Ching of the west by clueless historians in the future. Oh, and transhumanists win everytime.

Baldur's Gate 2 because I'm a faggot.

>>13367140
>Spec Ops: The Line
Get a load of this retard

>>13367216
>transhumanists win everytime
>I'm a faggot
Yep, it checks out.

>>13366253
I love E.Y.E. but it's nowhere that good. Most of the mechanics are wildly imbalanced and not worth even using. Still pretty fun tho

>>13367245
The only flaw E.Y.E. has is the mostly bad level design which looks like it was made for a multiplayer FPS rather than a singleplayer campaign (only a handful of maps aren't like this, for example the Mars one). The gameplay is excellent even if it's imbalanced, you really have a lot of freedom when it comes to the customization. If the level design was better, E.Y.E. would have been one of the best, if not the best video game of all time. Still, as it stands, it's worth a playthrough at least. It's also one of those rare games which I've actually replayed, multiple times even. I also think that its narrative is top tier.

>>13367241
I hate transhumanism, more than anyone alive. I actually play this game to test every ideology against transhumanism. Kek. Destroying the Hive is the sole reason I boot this game once a year.

>>13367273
Oh, you meant that they win often in your games. I thought you were cheering for the movement itself. My bad.

>>13366266
Why the Polish translation?

>>13367273
Holy shit Ted, is that you?

>>13367752
More poetic, higher literary quality than the standard release, more dialogue.
Patch is here.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-void.110447/page-3

>The protagonist, known as The Nameless One, is a man who is immortal, but with the cost of him forgetting everything if killed.

Excuse me, but that sounds like a goddamn good premise.

>>13365915
Can you guys please stop posting scary pictures here? I don't know how you all have such desensitization in you, that you can browse through and view all kinds of awful imagery, but I've been fundamentally scarred by media seen here and hope you can stop posting them on this site. Post wholesome things instead - that's what's best for everyone. Thank you.

>>13367804
It's not really that original, especially when you consider you forget your past lives when going through the cycle of death and rebirth, according to Hindu philosophy.

>>13366293
You shouldn't be using Steam or paying for digital distribution.

>>13367781
Cool, thanks.

>>13367140
everyone knows the characters are cliche dumbass, the point is the writers manage to make them interesting in spite of that initial cliche impression. the only weakly fleshed out character in the game is annah
>The story itself is a fairly bland typical story of redemption, with a barely existant first third, and unfocused middle part and an abysmal last third, the ending itself is overtly convenient, and the narrative too often falls into juvenile attempts at shock and mystery.
cringe

>>13367140
cringe. don't listen to this clown. instead watch this:
https://youtu.be/-_rHuBwaFdw

>>13366565
Yes. As you can tell from this thread, it's been invaded by low-intelligence posters that can only communicate using wojaks.

>>13366061
Nier: Automata

>>13368129
imagine thinking this

>>13366061
I actually liked Drakengard. Not its gameplay though

>>13368129
retard
>>13368586
git gud

VTM: Bloodlines is absolute kino

>>13365915
/lit/ X /v/:

>Deus Ex
>Metal Gear Solid 2: Guns of the Patriots
>Fallout
>Fallout: New Vegas
>KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords
>Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
>Victoria II
>Pharaoh (1999)
And many more

>>13367778
Ted doesnt play video games. He doesn't even use mics to talk to people for fuck's sake

>>13366061
Pathologic is honestly the only correct answer posted itt

>>13366148
*gets nerds seething from entry level philosophy years after her debut*
I honestly love Kreia if only for how much of a pleb filter she is

>>13366266
Came here to mention these games, well done anon

>>13369766
>Help begger
>I CANT BELIEVE YOUVE DONE THIS YOURE SCUM
>reject begger
>FUCK OFF I CANT BELIEVE YOUVE DONE THIS

She can fuck of to where she came, her “philosophy” is absolute bullshit

>>13368645
pseud

>>13365915
Here's the actual list of interactive fiction with literary merit:

>Ultima 6, 7, and Serpent Isle
>Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy/Outcast
>Deus Ex
>Morrowind
>Fallout New Vegas

Other games are respected for breaking certain barriers in the medium, but this is a short list of actual genius works. Some for the overarching story, some for the smaller bits of dialogue, some for adopting Biblical themes. If I had to pick one, it'd be Morrowind - with New Vegas very close behind.

>>13365915
Exactly what revolutionary philosophical insights do you believe are espoused by this game?

>>13369797
Nothing philosophically revolutionary is espoused by the game, but it definitely makes copious use of philosophy. Locke's theory of personal identity is used, and a good amount of moral philosophy is explored. There is even some metaphysics.

>Yet another /v/ crossboarder containment thread

>>13365915
If you only have a 2200g is it worth playing this over Witcher 3 at 800x600?

What crpg's don't have cringy dialogue written like it was for children?

>>13366000
>ludonarrative experience

What can change the nature of a man, /lit/?

>>13366000
>BALDURS GATE IS BETTER BECAUSE I PLAYED IT WHEN I WAS A KID.
Baldur's Gate is unironically a game for little children. That's why you like it, you never grew up.

>>13370870
i answered "regret" i think. it was either that or "betrayal"

>>13366061


Old School Runescape

>>13370870
Fear

do you like my code /g/?

import itertools
alphabet=['0','1']
def powerset(lst):
lst1=[]
for i in range(0,len(lst)+1):
lst2=[list(x) for x in itertools.combinations(lst,i)]
lst1.extend(lst2)
return lst1
DFA={}
def constructDFA(NFA, subsets, alphabet):
for lst in subsets:
DFA[str(lst)]={}
for c in alphabet:
t=[]
for s in lst:
if s in NFA.keys():
if NFA is not None:
if c in NFA.keys():
t.extend(NFA[c])
DFA[str(lst)][c]=str(t)
def minimizeTable(dfa, startState,finishState, visited):
if startState in finishState: return visited
for key, val in dfa[startState].items():
if val not in visited:
print(val)
visited.append(val)
minimizeTable(dfa,str(val), finishState, visited)
def minimize(dfa, necessaryStates):
minDFA={}
for s in necessaryStates:
minDFA[str(s)]=dfa[str(s)]
return minDFA
def isMatch(string, dfa,startState,finishState):
if len(string)==1:
return dfa[startState][string[0]] in finishState
else:
return isMatch(string[1:], dfa, dfa[startState][string[0]],finishState)
NFA = {1: {'0':[1,2], '1':[1]}, 2: { '1':[3]}, 3: None}
#NFA2= {1:{'a':[1,2],'b':[1]},2: {'a':[3],'b':[3]},3:None}
subsets = powerset(NFA.keys())
subsets=subsets[1:]
print(subsets)
constructDFA(NFA,subsets, alphabet)
print(DFA)
v=[]
startState='[1]'
finishState=[]
for keys,value in DFA.items():
if '3' in keys: finishState.append(keys)
#print(finishState)
minimizeTable(DFA, startState,finishState,v)
print(v)
minDFA=minimize(DFA,v)
print(minDFA)
print(isMatch('1111101111111100100000',minDFA,startState,finishState))




>All WRPG garbage
Fuck off.

Sunless Sea/Skies is pretty /lit/.
I mean, not the plot, the the writing itself is very good.

>>13374347
you mean the world building

>>13373457
For me, its Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers

>>13370185
none of them. video games are for children.

Star Control II

>>13369558
If Uncle Ted were to play any video game, it would have been Phantasy Star II.

>>13374384
Yes, but the way it's written is really is really nice, there's something to it that's just right.

>>13374415
Do you read the CCRU archive?

>>13372303
"Regret" is the canon answer for the Good incarnation I believe.

The only /lit/ games are visual novels and even that is debatable.

You should check out KARTIA

>>13366061

>>13374485
damn. based

>>13366061
Alpha Centauri

>>13366554
E-sport cancer and minmax morons found their way to this board I see.

>>13370870
If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I’ve seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me.

>>13374820
Maybe if they had half decent writing

>>13366148
You posted the incorrect image.

>>13375598
Cringe

awful thread
is this what the average /v/ experience feels like?

>>13368645
pharaoh, hnnnng
new reso pack would be nice, the ui feels super crammed in 2019, populus level crammed

>>13368645
>Darkwood
>EYE Divine Cybermancy
>Lifeweb

>>13366253

Simutrans, Super Mario Gamecube and LOL:Lack of Love are peak videogaming experience

I, for one, welcome our new board tourist overlords.

>>13377189
>Super Mario Gamecube
Ya blew it. People would have fallen for the bait if you named the game correctly.