/lit/ - Literature

>>13291955
Watch Dominion. The meat industry is truly the most evil institution in the modern age.

>>13291972
I always forget about that issue. It almost amuses me because of the absolute disconnect between my awareness of how objectively awful it is and how immoral I am in my being complicit, and the complete lack of emotional response I feel towards it.

>tfw you realize they've tricked us into systematically torturing and murdering animals, mass-murdering unborn babies like a normal daily event, and seeing the world as a plaything to be twisted and deconstructed to build us more toys to play with

SPIEGEL: Obviously, you see a world movement -- this is the way you, too, have expressed it -- that either is bringing about an absolutely technical state or has done so already.

Heidegger: That's right.

SPIEGEL: Fine. Now the question naturally arises: Can the individual man in any way still influence this web of fateful circumstance? Or, indeed, can philosophy influence it? Or can both together influence it, insofar as philosophy guides the individual, or several individuals, to a determined action?

Heidegger: If I may answer briefly, and perhaps clumsily, but after long reflection: philosophy will be unable to effect any immediate change in the current state of the world. This is true not only of philosophy but of all purely human reflection and endeavor. Only a god can save us.

>>13291972
>>13291955
only the logical conclusion to 'capitalism and free market', nothing to see here.
just keep consuming

>>13291983
Watch Dominion if you want to feel an emotional response. A holocaust is occurring and nobody cares.

>>13292005
It is a holocaust in the original sense of the term. Something is using all this savagery behind the scenes to incur so much spiritual debt around our necks that we can't pay it off and we're prevented from meeting whatever potential we have.

Somehow what we're doing in this past century is going to stain us on a level we can't remove, forever.

>>13291991
>Only a god can save us.
He is right, and fedoras will refuse to admit it

>>13292010
>Something is using all this savagery behind the scenes to incur so much spiritual debt around our necks that we can't pay it off and we're prevented from meeting whatever potential we have.
absolutely aesthetic idea, where did you come across this

>>13292005
Animals die when you consume animals. I'm shocked.

>>13291955
What is so horrible about this? Those chicks die super fast! You can't even really see how fast. That's probably an improvement right? Mixing the shells in with them seems weird but maybe they are used for fertilizer?

t. Lifelong moral vegetarian.

>>13291991
why does heidegger insist that he is neither for nor against technology, but then is pretty obviously an anti-technology thinker (it seems that way to me)

>>13291955
I don't see any problem in this
would you rather doing it by hand?

>>13292010
This esoteric talk holds absolutely no weight but I like it.

>>13292191
Nothing. This is just a crypto-luddite thread

Why do most vegans decry this and not realize that the alternative to the supposed cruelty of industrial food production is the death of billions of humans and consequent death of billions and billions of livestock if the system collapsed? Many balk at this, while the rest tend to offer the "solution" of increased intensive farming to give everyone their own Cruelty Free™ onions bean based diet (ignoring what to do with the livestock if they're not to be eaten [mass sterilization and a cushioned death?]) which would lead to global desertification in a generation or less.

The few that accept the mass deaths of humans and animals resulting in the breakdown of civilization don't seem to realize that their vegan lifestyle would hence be unsustainable in the fallout world.

Lab grown meats probably the best of both scenarios.

>>13292220
He's not anti-technology, he just isn't an optimist about our relationship with it.

>>13292279
Source?

>>13292023
lots of philosophers talk about collective souls, klages steiner etc

>>13291991
Thanks for posting this

>>13292308
enjoy being chock full of new and interesting cancers!

vid doesnt work for me what happens

>>13292279
1000L of water are used to produce 1 litre of milk and 15000 litres for one kilogram of beef dumbass

>>13292279
>the death of billions of humans
we can only hope

>>13291955
>>13291991
>>13292012
stop being such a spooked slave moralist.

we are literally living in the best times the world has ever seen.

and even though heidegger was clown, he was staunchly an atheist. quit trying to paint him as so sort of surreptitious theist.

>>13292437
based know-nothing brain with a know-it-all attitudeposter

>>13292320
Source for what? Think about the proposition for a second and you'd come to the conclusion that sustaining billions on a vegan diet is physically impossible on this planet: 70% of all agricultural land is devoted to pasturage, are you going to turn the thin, acidic soil of mountains into fertile vegetable producing plots? How do you maintain such a vast system of intensive agriculture without modern, industrial manure? Are some magic robots working 24/7 going to use ancient fertility promoting methods like pic related to care for the land, or will it be an advanced species of transhuman peasants?

>>13292374
how is this little factoid of yours relevant

>>13292437

>>13292470
>feeding animals only to kill them and feed us is more sustainable than just feeding us
hmmm

Sooner or later cannibalism will become a viable option.

>>13292279
>the death of billions of humans and consequent death of billions and billions of livestock
This has to happen because the world cannot naturally sustain the current population of humans. It's a hard fact to swallow. All of man's history, civilization itself, has been a war on nature and now it has come to a head. But nature always wins. Our civilization might be the "last" because of what we're doing to the planet.

>>13292495
sorry didn't realize I was talking to an amerimutt/chink eating factory farm meat from cows fed on nothing but oats

cows in my white land eat grass thankfully, pic related, good luck growing your sóy on this land lmao

Mixed diet is best, its like no contest

>>13292437
>slave moralist

Bruh...

>>13292521
what do you mean grass? cows are supposed to eat corn.

>>13292495
Not every unit of input is fungible and transferable. Animals eat foodstuffs you would not touch.

I think about this every day and it exhausts me on a very profound level. I'm complicit in a system I hate, nothing can justify death and consumption on this scale except a god, and I don't see any

>>13291955
I agree with a lot of anprim's tenants but what's to prevent people from evolving to advanced technology and forming civilizations? Humans tend to invent to make lives easier and to ensure the continuation of the species. It's the same reason anti natalism won't catch on.

>>13291955
Not to bad really

>>13291955

based egg industry

>>13292279
>which would lead to global desertification in a generation or less

Care to elaborate?

>>13292279
animals eat plants. If humans eat animals, then there must be more plants that were grown when eating meat, than when humans would eat only plants. So more farming is neccesary when we eat meat as well as plants. So, your argument is not valid at all.

>>13292437
Based. Heidegger was nothing compared to the greatness of capitalism.

>>13292029
They don't just "die", they are systematically murdered for no reason other than human pleasure. Vegan diets are totally healthy and the time in which you do your shopping for meat could be used to do shopping for vegan food, so it's not as if going vegan even inconveniences you in the slightest. The truth is that you, personally, support the holocaust of trillions of animals because you really don't want to eat "horrible food" like pic related.

>>13293075
>. Vegan diets are totally healthy
doubt.png

>>13292938
This is under the assumption we just stop feeding those animals wholesale and led them starve to death, plus they often eat shit we cant even really process or use

>>13293082
>What is Beyond Meat

>>13293075
It inconveniences me because I like the taste and texture of meat. Bean curds and mushrooms do not compare and I won't be eating any ground up bugs like a neoliberal worker drone.

>>13293098
An yuge player on the stock market.

VeganCoin coming soon.

>>13293126
Not to mention plant protein can barely compete with animal protein especially if you care about gainz. B vitamins too.

>>13293098
water and oil by the looks of it

>Water, Pea Protein Isolate*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Pomegranate Fruit Powder, Beet Juice Extract (for color)

>>13293098
Beyond Meat is still plant based and not as good a protein source as real meat.

But soon real meat will be grown in labs at mass scale.

>>13291955
I raised chickens, started 2 years ago or so. My first chicks hatched not too long ago either. Among them were males. I had heard on chicken raising forums that you absolutely had to limit how many roosters you kept in a very steep ratio to how many hens you had. Sure, i "read" it. But the love and pride of seeing the little chicks peck around and sleep under their mama had convinced me, nothing else mattered. This was certainly a little slice of heaven in my backyard.

So months passed, and the males that were just tiny scared balls of down undistinguishable from the females has grown into large proud birds that stood up tall and impressive. I would have kept on being proud if I did not see what I saw that one day. I was out changing the water tanks and heard loud squawking. No doubt a young rooster was mating again. Peering a little closer there seemed to be a commotion. Several of my young roosters were carefully surrounding another rooster that was mounting a hen. The rooster bit down on the hens neck and did what he had to do. When he was finished, he let the hen go. Thinking this was over, the hen got up to her feet and tried to get to safety, but another rooster that was watching did not let her. The other one quickly bit down upon the escaping hen and mounted it in the same fashion as the previous. A feeling built up within me as the water spilled over the tank and onto my feet. Surely this would end soon?

Nope. Not only did every rooster have their turn, some went twice. And to make matters worse, this was not the first time this happened. The hens back was red, bare, pockmarked, and no feathers were left.

I still had love for my animals. So I shooed them and uneasily looked online for an answer. Perhaps others had found a solution to this problem without getting rid of "excess" roosters. But every answer I found was simple. Get rid of them. And how, not specified.

I dropped this into the back of my mind until another day, when I was out hanging laundry, and the same exact scene began to unfold. A hen was running frantically, and a rooster caught up and mounted her. To my horror, I saw that the other roosters actually helped keep the hen in place by dragging her down by the neck.
My vision turned black. I picked up my varmint rifle, my 10/22, and sent one flying at a spectating rooster. It went through his eyes, and he flopped frantically on the ground. In utter disgust at how this monster kept trying to live despite my commands to die, I slammed down a brick on its body and it moved no more.
The orgy had been interupted, and thr other birds had retreated, oblivious to what had happened but unsure enough to be cautious. I put out my softest chirping sounds that I made when pouring out food, and when the roosters got close, I bent down, and snatched one up by the neck, and twisted. It was easier than I thought. I had built up quite some strength working for my father, and so I tossed the lifeless carcass to the ground.

What the fuck am I supposed to do? I don't like how inhumanely they treat the animals, I want them to kill them with a cattle gun or some other device that kills them as fast and as painlessly as possible, while also letting them graze so they're not stuck in those horrible cages where their limbs atrophy. But I just can't imagine a life without eating meat, it's one of the few pleasures I have and humans have evolved to eat it. This is like asking a wolf to switch to a vegetarian diet, his species has adapted for thousands of years to eat meat you can't just switch like that and not expect serious side effects to his health.

>>13293149
Based gang rape roosters

>>13293149
Can I borrow this script?

>>13292279
https://www.pnas.org/content/114/48/E10301.abstract

This study claims that if the US went vegan the food production would increase by 23% and would reduce greenhouse gas emissions, the downside being that it would lead to nutritional deficiencies, which I'm sure could be rectified with vitamins and the like.

>(ignoring what to do with the livestock if they're not to be eaten [mass sterilization and a cushioned death?])
This is a very brainlet point. You can outlaw the breeding of livestock for consumption and let farmers slaughter and sell the cows that they have. In one generation the meat industry will be stopped and there will be no cow apocalypse.

>tfw you actually will read Industrial Future and its Society

>>13293075
Personally, even if I agreed with your argument, which I don't, I suffer from severe migraines that prevent me from working (the migraines auras I get make me lose my vision), the only cure for which has been to switch to a keto, high meat diet. If I eat too many carbs, I'm out of commission. Meat substitutes, even high protein ones, even if they are healthy in every other way, are too high in carbs for me to eat. That's just one situation with all else being equal. Don't pretend you have the high ground just because maybe being vegan works for you. It doesn't work for everyone.

>>13293149
Theres not much more to say, and my creative train was disrupted by the post limit. Just that sometimes, I look at my hens, now with only two roosters left over to watch them. They don't even mate as much as before. I think more roosters meant more agitation, meaning more fighting and mating, and more pain for the hens. One of the hens still cant walk properly anymore. The damage was permanent. I see her limp towards me happily when I spread out scratch and grains, and think back to myself when the chicks had just hatched. There was so much care put into each egg, each chick. And now, I only take care of the food water and bedding. The eggs, I could not care less. I dont eat omelets anymore.

There is nothing precious or innocent about the propagation of life. To control it means you witness it daily, and that can surprise people by being too much.

I still remember how good it felt to snatch up those roosters by the necks. They would claw at my arm and flap wildly, kicking up dust everywhere, fighting for their life. But just like how the hens they raped were powerless, so were the roosters under my enraged grip. I didn't just choke them, i tore off their heads. I would do it again if I have to, and the scary thing is is that it does not bring me shame, to enact violence upon a beast. It was a totally rational culling.

>>13293082
It is a documented fact. While a vegan diet will cause you to be deficient in B12, Calcium, and Iron, all of these things can be easily remedied by taking vitamins or eating vegan foods that are specifically made to include these nutrients. In fact vegans are less likely than carnists to develop cardiovascular disease and live longer than carnists on average.

>>13293220
The Beyond patty posted above has 20 grams of protein and 3 grams of carbohydrates, 2 grams consisting of dietary fiber.

>>13293126
That's what I said. Human pleasure.

>>13293227
CRAWLING IN MY SKIN

>>13293239
Oh shit you're right. Well, I concede that point, color me surprised. I still vehemently disagree with the idea, but my point doesn't stand.

>>13293195
>accelerationists can me-

>>13293149
>>13293227
You sound like you were a fucking woman, how stupid can you be, nigger? You think a bunch of fucking rooster give a shit that waaaah waaaah you think rape is bad. Fuck do they care? You should have just killed the excess hens humanely from the beginning instead of going on a sperg rage when you realize that animals don't give a shit about your 21st century liberal capitalist ethics. At least you learned some kind of lesson I guess.

>>13293261
>I still vehemently disagree with the idea
watch it and see if you still disagree. if you support it financially you should be able to see what you pay for.

>>13293258
>>13293276
Have sex buk buk buk

>>13293285
kek

chickens are stupid as fuck they most likely do not even comprehend being killed. they are flying reptiles, alligator tears are a meme for a reason.

TedKore time.

https://youtu.be/RaQ-sdtdUcI

In the United States alone
An animal is killed
Every six seconds
In the name of scientific experimentation
A holocaust the likes of man has never known before
Is taking place right before our very eyes
It's up to you and I to put a stop to it
It's up to you and I to make a change
It's up to you and I to ... Liberate!

Millions of humans dying of starvation > animals

>>13293325

>>13291991
>Only a god can save us
W-hat? I thought Heidegger was an atheist. To the trash he goes.

>>13293336
>gas chambers and extermination camps

>>13293304
>kill mentally retarded humans
wow that's a pretty based viewpoint if I may say so myself

>>13293304
I don't know about chickens, but turkeys definitely do. My dad and I once brought 3 live turkeys home for Thanksgiving. We kept them in our small garage which is around 150 square feet. They were in large boxes and would occasionally come out and then go back inside. You could pet them and they would just remain still and not do anything. I thought my father was going to butcher them in another area but lo and behold he prepared the table right there in the garage. When he grabbed the first turkey the others went into a small panic, nothing major. He then cut its head off with a cleaver and the other two started screeching. GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE. They both somehow got into a corner of the garage on the very top of the garage door frame (don't know how they climbed up there). I was like alright well let's just grab those two, kill them, and then it'll be over. NOPE. He decides to clean the turkey after killing it with the other two sitting in the corner of the garage enjoying the show with nowhere to go. He grabbed the other after a while and one last poor sucker was left to watch his relative suffer. When the two turkeys got into that corner of the garage, they NEVER moved an inch. I had to shoo them down with a broom. Fuck turkeys though they smell like shit.

>>13293342
>posting a jewish evil eye after a holocaust reference
pottery

>>13293284
>those narrators
yea, I think I'll pass

>>13293374

>>13293424

>>13293357
i can not tell you how much despise jews.
either they are the most smartest, or the most tribal , or both of that. whatever i make of it, being the most smartest, whatever, they lack the goodness and humbleness to really be gods chosen people, that is why he abandoned them and punsihed them with the eternal nose. (and gen defects).
i really studied judaism and it disgusts me. They probably process the highest net intelligence yet they are the most disgusting, racist fucks around, finding excuses for their ill behaviour.
high intelligence, zero wisdom, paranoid scum.

>>13293351
>Fuck turkeys though they smell like shit.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you're an NPC

>>13293351
More TedKore

https://youtu.be/fqV9ogeJE3w

If I was a turkey, with my priorities straight,
I'd peck out his eyes and shred up his face,
he wouldn't turn me into a crispy crumb steaks,
mixed up with sawdust and shit from my crate.

But I'm not a turkey and you make me sick,

I might only speak softly, but I carry a big stick,
and a can full of petrol to set you alight,
a 12stone Bernie-Burger, that bootiful alright!

I wrote you a letter, but you didn't reply,
was that cos, I asked you to fuck off and die

>>13291991
>Only a god can save us
it happened once and it can happen again

>>13292570
that cow is finally free

>>13291955
those arent eggs

Killing things is natural tho. Humans kill each other as well now and then.

>>13292010

you're ready to learn about the archons

EGG

>>13293470
>commie vegan punk
faggot

>>13293545
Yeah and we send those guys to jail lol

>>13293237
> In fact vegans are less likely than carnists to develop cardiovascular disease and live longer than carnists on average.
This not true if you compare vegans with conscious meat eaters.

>>13292012
but it ain't god's style to do shit

>>13293799
Fun fact: the child in the picture is a girl who was crawling towards a refugee center that was handing out food, the photographer took the photo and then left her there. He committed suicide less than a year later.

>>13293284
>Watch this propaganda film full of blood, gore, and animal abuse so you can be horrified, grosed out, and scared straight in agreeing with me.
Even if all of this is true, which I'm sure it is, you have to be pretty morally philosophically, and ideologically bankrupt to resort to such scare tactics.

>>13293799
>>13293811
Who took the picture? What's the guy's name?

>>13293840
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carter
>On 24 July 1994, Carter drove to Parkmore near the Field and Study Centre, an area where he used to play as a child, and died by suicide by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and running the other end to the driver's side window. He died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note read:
>I'm really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the point that joy does not exist. ...depressed ... without phone ... money for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!! ... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of killer executioners ... I have gone to join Ken if I am that lucky.

>>13293813
How is showing the nasty stuff the meat industry hides an ideologically bankrupt scare tactic? I bet you're one of those fucking assholes who berate any attempt at curbing the reach of ads. You make me sick. I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, but your words are the ones of a stupid American. I can tell just by this one sentence of yours that you're from Burgerstan.

>>13293813
>Showing someone the result of their choices is ideologically bankrupt
You're the one with nothing to draw on.

>>13293811
What would you do? You've been asked specifically not to touch or help these victims as not to contract disease. Still, he could have done something

>>13293874
Could have told the humanitarian aid workers to help the girl

>>13291955
Much like climate change moralism, the fetishization of animal lives is a product of neoliberalism sublating earlier alarmist screeds from dark-green environmentalism.

>>13293813
>revealing society's underbelly to itself
>scare tactics

poor ignorant child of light

>>13293813
how can it be scare tactics if it's the truth?

>>13293882
go on

>>13293893
>>>/reddit/

>>13293873
It's not as though we're watching raw industrial footage like that in the tweet. It's selectively edited for manipulation by pathos.

>>13292437
>▶
based retard

>>13293899
Propaganda does not have to be false.

>>13292374
Now do almonds faggot. vegans pour those into everything and spread it on everything

>>13292279
I am pretty sure that most of the meat industry produces superfluity. Hungry poor billions hardly taste any. What really keeps them alive is agricultural practices and genetically modified strains (and the global transportation systems, and the global economy, and so on, and so on).

That no one can implement a planned reduction is your complete straw man argument. The real problem is that it would be against every market force, as long as there are non-vegetarian people, and would cause a lot of fun instead of achieving the stated goal.

What could help is personal involvement in killing, and reintroduction of seemingly useless rituals, as observed at hunts or sacrifices (even modern hunters don't go and shoot everything that moves straight away). Then there will be a proper translation for “Itadakimas!”

>>13293900
Mass-integration of moral outrage over things like the meat industry serve to both feed and assuage the bourgeois moral sensibilities of post-protestant Western society. Think of how corporations integrate popular social movements into their PR strategies, and then subsequently further reinforce these trends in society. By incorporating this outrage into the social movements of capital, we see any means of critical discourse either for or against the consumption of meat transmogrified into ones that can be utilized for economic purposes.

>>13293882
What is your opinion on “fetishization of human lives”, then?

I challenge you with
> History of Animals: An Essay on Negativity, Immanence, and Freedom (2012)

>>13293985
>You must read this essay before you can respond
Don't be a gishgalloping rules lawyer faggot. Either summarize the essay or give us its main points.

>>13291955
I was always under the impression that the science side of his work was quite good, and I imagine that still holds up now. It's everything else that's suspect.

>>13292191
They are used for cheap meat products that are served in fast food chains, for example. The irony is that they have to process the paste to make it have at least some texture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanically_separated_meat

I doubt that chicks produce significant percentage of meat, they are probably simply disposed of.

>>13293985
Idea doesn't procede from non-sapient animals, boyo. Neither does human labor. You're going to have to come at this from another paradigm.

>>13291991
God created animals for humans to eat. Animals don't have souls.

>>13294033
What is an “animal”?

>>13294120
My God says the compassionless are unindividuated and don't yet have souls. Killing you is sort of like lopping an appendage from a mold or fungus.

>>13294141
>My God
You are either a fedora tipper who invents gods on a whim or an ignorant fool.

>>13293705
Better than what you listen to.

>>13294219
Don't think you quite got the point, that spouting the dogma of your particular sect of your particular religion isn't going to convince anybody else. Most follows of your religion aren't fucking 17th century Cartesians anymore. Even people in the 17th century thought the "animals have no souls" thing was more than a little weird and eerily compassionless.

>>13293868
Rent free

We don't think about you at all

>>13293882
Yikes.
The absolute poverty of NuCons.

>>13292521
Based. I hope you have a big family and teach them in the ways of fighting back against the psychopathic Globalists and their mindless leftist hoards.

>>13294324
>hoards

>>13293239
And it's fucking 8 dollars for two tiny little burgers.
The "it's possible to get enough nutrients on a vegan diet" line is retarded when you consider how many people live paycheck to paycheck.
When you see people espousing how cheap veganism is, they're referring to shit like burlap sacks of rice that has zero nutritional value.
Any meat substitute that would break the rice and beans monotony enough to prevent mass suicides is still so prohibitively expensive (especially compared to chicken or garbage fish) that it's going to remain completely off-limits to the underclass, which will only continue to grow.

>>13291955
It "holds up" but remains powerless in the world. Modernity already won a long time ago. The game was changed and can't be changed back, so you either play, or you ragequit.

>>13294324
Definitions:
PGE = psychopathic globalist elite
MLH = mindless leftist hoard

Examples:
•The PGE want to monetize and commoditize and then buy and sell your kids, your wives, your parents and your parents' friends, the houses they live in and the stores they work in, and all people that owe them money.
•The finest trick of the PGE is to persuade you that they do not exist. So in a flash of pure evil the Frankfort School devised a religion, without a name, and with it created the MLH, the most potent force of destruction the world has ever known.

>>13294419
horde

>>13294399
At some point there will be a "back to earth" movement. Maybe something like the Amish

>>13294072
I'm aware of pink slurry meat, but it doesn't have egg shells in it. (I mean, maybe it does? I've never eaten meat. ) What I do know though, is industry doesn't just throw away calories.

>>13294398
It's economy of scale, not meat production that does that.

>>13294432
I'm working on it friend.

>>13293882
Everyday it gets easier and easier to hate neocons.

>>13292437
>slave moralist
>it's happy because he lives in the society of the last man
lmao we have invented happiness didnt we?

>>13292279
>subhuman lives are worth saving
we need standards again

>>13291972
Animals welfare doesn't matter.

>>13292374
>water is a one time consumable resource
retard

>>13294245
They're wrong, brainlet.

>>13291955
Ted goes into detail that animal cruelty was quite rampant in primitive societies. People who believe the collapse of tech will lead to some hippie paradise are to be shut off from any movement as they do nothing but subvert it.

>>13291972
You mean the pharmaceutical industry

Any mirrors? Twitter videos don't work on my computer.

>>13293882
Very well thought it is clear that the developpement of veganism is a pure product of late stage capitalism

If I was a multi-billionaire I would pump billions into cultured meat research and put millions into overcoming political and cultural pressure to stick with """real""" meat.

>>13295252
>i heard water is a renewable resource in elementary school and now think water conservation is fake
holy shit

>>13293923
Nuts are several times over more sustainable than beef or milk.

why the fuck did i come back to this board? none of you even try to know things yet you all pretend to know a lot.

>>13292437
>we are literally living in the best times the world has ever seen.
This statement sure seems to generate a lot of contempt for such happy times

>>13295518
Almonds are kind of a problem, so are avocados and they’re both staples of the vegan diet. The real answer is to end meat but proliferate eggs. That would give reason to let the male chicks live too, for luxury meat.

>>13295536
>almonds and avocados are staples of the vegan diet
you either have brain damage or you don't know what the word 'staple' means in relation to diet, or even both.
I'll tell you what 'vegan' staples are:
>oats
>rice
>lentils
>beans
>wheat
>potato/sweet potato

>>13295544
>carbs carbs carbs carbs
vegans must have bigger tits than hitomi tanaka

>>13293882
apparently this is neocon but it's a point

Chicks are cute and it's gross and emotionally affecting to let them fall into a whirring contraption, but this treatment of animals as something pure and innocent and in need of saving is condescending and arrogant. The self-loathing, human-deprecating, masochistic vegan pathology is based in the idea that we are truly superior and separate from animals, and thus must conduct ourselves better than they. This is at least in part why it fails - all of the arguments are sentimental, emotional, based in showing affecting and extreme images. But the animals themselves are just as brutal as us, we simply involve more steps and machines. there are plenty of reasons to change the way we raise animals and produce animal products - "the poor widdle baby animals cant take care of themselves!" is not one. it's immature, puerile neoliberal sanctimony at worst and compassion-based intestinal sensitivity at best.

there's also probably something to be said about the kind of psychological state a nation forces it's citizens into by making them turn a blind eye to this sort of thing, but that's a different matter

>>13295544
>not a bit of fat in your listed staples
>calls me a brainlet
You’re either not a vegan or a deficient one

>>13295491
They are already doing that. Bezos, Gates, one of the Google guys are invested in lab grown meat companies.

>>13295560
>beans
>lentils
>carbs

not quite mister
anyone carbs dont make your tits big idiot.

>>13295565
cook with olive oil and eat peanuts lol quit reaching

>>13295578
oh yeah 2 out of 6 ain't bad

>>13291991
Nuclear war will save the world.

>>13295536
Also, almonds are completely unnecessary. I'll tell you what I personally eat and anyone who is intellectually moral would follow. So, for today (I'll use the dry measurements but specify the method of cooking; also a low-acvitiy day, i.e. not working out):
>breakfast
150g rolled oats (boiled), ~30g raisins, 5g flaxseed and 15g chia seeds, ~20g carob powder
>lunch
100g black beans (boiled), 100g buckwheat (boiled), 10g sunflower seeds, after which I'll go out and eat about 300g of raspberries from my backyard
>dinner
100g whole wheat berries (boiled), 10g sunflower seeds
For vitamin A you need about 300g of either sweet potato or carrots, which will give you what's necessary for at least 3 days (it's fat-soluble, so you store it in your body).
You may possibly need 2 supplements on a vegan/strictly vegetarian diet:
1) B12; produced by soil bacteria; assuming that you're not consuming plenty of fresh vegetables that are cleaned with unchlorinated water or don't drink water from a natural stream, you'll need a 1000/2000 micrograms pill once or twice a week; for about 18 euros you can get about a year's supply for THREE people
2) iodine; if you don't have access to sea vegetables you can consume a few grams of iodized salt, but you often get that with binding agents and other bullshit, so personally I choose an iodine supplement (2 ingredients: algae powder and a polysaccharide)
And that's it, depending on your age (the younger the better) you're most likely set for life, saying goodbye to diet-related diseases, and to living a cunt's lifestyle that supports animal torture and murder.
>>13295560
>carbs bad
nice meme retard, go follow the Inuit diet and see your braindead children that can do nothing more than hunting live to 50-60 y.o.
>>13295565
again, staples are the foods that you eat most frequently

>>13295658
I should say 'get most of your calories from' rather than 'most frequently' but you get the idea

>>13295658
>intellectually moral

>>13293167
but you can?
its not like you are going to die if you go vegetarian atleast, humans are not carnivores but omnivores. We physically can eat only non-animal products and survive.
Now it only comes into question what you value more.

>>13295658
>>carbs bad
>nice meme retard, go follow the Inuit diet and see your braindead children that can do nothing more than hunting live to 50-60 y.o.
woah you mean hunting in the wilderness all day every day as exercise offsets fattening foods???????? impossible!!!!!!!!!

>>13292279

>well we made a mistake but we can't own up to it now or there might be actual consequences better double down and just keep going into perpetuity

this is why god continues to test us

>>13291972
Meat is healthy and good for you. You can eat a lot of meat and get even more healthy. The meat Industry is a real job creator. Meat is a 100% biodegradable so it's good for the environment too.

>>13292547
We do grain feed factory farmed animals, you’re also not considering that animals need massive amounts of water compared to plants.

>>13291972
>Americans are inhumane
No shit. There are lots of other countries that have morals, not under the influence of America that still has ethical meat production. Obviously, the cheap supermarket brands aren't great (but still typically better than Americas) but it's still very easy to find a butcher/market with grass-fed free-range products where the animals are well cared for.

>>13291955
why is lit so faggy
I mean I'm literally a homosexual vegan who composts and doesn't use plastic. So I know faggotry.

And y'all are really fucking faggy compared to the rest of the boards.

>>13292542
>what do you mean grass? cows are supposed to eat corn
ah that explains their beaks.

>>13293075
Eating meat was literally a catalyst for human brain development. I would rather be shot in the street by our new corporate sponsored NKVD than stop eating meat. Even if every slaughterhouse was shut down I would still devote days out of my week to go hunting in the mountains around my city.

>>13296538
>Eating meat was literally a catalyst for human brain development
looks like it missed yours

>>13293237
>veganism is healthier than the standard American diet if take loads of supplements
Veganism has nothing on a balanced whole food omnivore diet. The best thing about it is how restrictive is for processed foods but even still do you really expect a poor single-parent household to have the time to properly balance the diet to ensure they get all the amino acids. What about when they are cash strapped, do you think they are going to keep buying the supplements from good sources?

I believe it is morally wrong to not eat meat.
By not eating meat you are weakening your Will, you are effectively not a human anymore.

>>13293284
>you can only buy meat from unnecessarily unethical factory farming processes
I prefer to give my money to locally sourced grass-fed meat rather than meme-vegan mega corporations. Even factory farming is nowhere near that bad in countries that have morals (not US, Poland, etc)

>>13293149
Those roosters should have died but you're a little bitch for crying about the gang rape like that justifies your moronic rage on behalf of a bird

>>13296576
>boiling oats for 3 minutes is hard
>boiling lentils for 20 minutes is hard
>boiling sweet potatoes for 10 minutes is hard
>using cronometer is hard
>Veganism has nothing on a balanced whole food omnivore diet.
b12 (the only supplement you most likely need) is dirt cheap; too bad you're an inbred nigger on welfare who spends his money on mixtapes and KFC
>cash strapped
a vegan diet is unequivocally cheaper than any alternatives

>>13296606
>middle class 20 yo thinks poor single-parent households aren't working hard enough
When did leftism turn into this?

>>13296591
>le grass-fed meme
enjoy your asscancer faggot. take a look at jordan peterson's carnivore wife

its fucking cruel i know but pushing everyone into vegi/veganism is a concerted effort to dumb the populace down while also curbing the tide on dwindling resources

most in the west are simply too malnourished to drop the meat they've been eating all their life & if you want the real reason why mental health issues have spiked in recent years its because our bodies & guts have been fucked with since birth. we're effectively mutants at this point even when compared with the WW2 generation.

>>13296613
Why are Americans such extremists? There is a middle ground between veganism and only eating beef, salt and water. Most people who actively talk about dieting in general but specifical grass-fed meat also say you need to be eating a lot of veg to make it a balanced diet.

>>13296609
Are you mentally challenged? How exactly are oats, lentils and potatoes and a b12 supplement (literally less than 20 dollars for a year's supply for whole single-parent family) more expensive than animal products?

>>13296538
>>13296576
>>13296431
>>13295562
>>13294398
>>13294048
>>13292437

Makes perfect sense let's start the morning with these incredibly calorie-dense food items sourced from animals and animal fats: eggs, butter, bacon.

After eating a heart attack worth of fat and proteins what do we do?
Sit in a car to drive to work of course!
What do we do at work?
Sit on our ass some more!

Lunchtime! Let's again eat incredibly calorie-dense food items to energize us for 6 more hours of sitting on our ass!
Maybe meatballs, and a butter+milk+cheese based sauce and pasta? Perfect for sitting!

After sitting for 6 more hours at work,
We can finally sit at home!
What do we need to energize all that sitting at home? More calorie-dense food items sourced from animals of course!

So let's slaughter 60 billion animals each year! and make sure they lead a lifetime of torture! (rape included of course!)
Just so we can use that abundance of calories to sit on our asses at home, on our way to work, at work, and on our way back!
Sounds Smart and Totally Efficient!

>>13296647
Animals don't matter lol

>not drowning yourself in black coffee & cigarettes throughout the day before binging a nutrient dense huge meal at night

its like some of you dont understand how to maximise your energy in the information age

>>13293811
That’s past the point of being able to be saved anyway.

>>13295658
Avocados and almonds are produced en masse. You might not eat it but don’t pretend vegans aren’t consuming fuck tons of almond milk.

>>13296631
There is not a single nutrient or even a set of nutrients that meat provides which a vegan diet cannot. And those vegan products aren't exotic-limited-edition-hand-picked-by-virgins products, they're the most common ones possible.
You could at least be honest to yourself and admit that you eat meat only because you like the taste, and that justifies the killing of animals.

>>13296653
>animals don't matter lol
turns out they do if there are enough of them.
their farts are literally changing global climate lol.

>>13296676
Using up ground water too.

>>13294120
>Animals don't have souls.
anima (lat.) = soul, breath, spirit, etc.

absolute retard.

>>13291955
If you live in the countryside, buy your own chickens. They're easy to look after, and they lay a fuck ton of eggs which you can guarantee are ethically sourced as long as you're not a cunt. My family had three and we woke up to fresh eggs nearly every morning. Next year I'll have the financial freedom to justify becoming vegan and honestly I think I'll do it with the amount of horrific shit I've seen.

So do vegans want to like just genocide the last batch of animals and not let then reproduce if the world goes full vegan?

>>13296634
Who the fuck just eats oats, lentils, potatoes and supplements? That's not even healthy for a start (I'm not a vegan scientist but I doubt you'd get the all the macro and micronutrients required for a growing child) but how can you expect anyone, especially children to eat gruel all day every day. It's like you want poor people to go back to the dark ages whilst richer people are able to get enough the variety needed to make the diet both palatable and nutritional.

Unless your plan is to further increase inequality through the malnourishment of the lower classes in which case I am onboard.

>>13296647
>since you won't go vegan you obviously will never include any vegetables in your diet and eat meat for every meal
Why are Americas so extremist?

>>13296725
These are the foods from which you get the most calories from throughout the meals you brainlet. Tell me what nutrient is missing from what I've described here (in the first part of the post) >>13295658

Thinking of going pescatarian, vegan shit doesnt even come close to seadood

>>13296723
Why not use the last batch of animals which were going to be systematically killed anyway and stop breeding them to break the cycle? I don't see how that's unfavourable considering the situation we're currently in.

>>13296725
You're right, veganism should be a choice people with the financial security actively make. People in a fiscal struggle have enough issues as it is, their situation justifies them waiting for lab grown meat to become cheaply available or until they climb the economic ladder.

>>13296777
>You're right, veganism should be a choice people with the financial security actively make
Absolutely braindead, why would you want to filter nutrients through an animal instead of just buying the plant foods, which is also a lot cheaper in the end?

Wtf why are vegans so utilitarian? Throw out thousands of years of food culture because some retarded creatures that cant even comprehend their own existence?

>>13296671
There's a difference between function and practically. David Haye eats a vegan diet and performs feats I never could, there is no question that he is missing anything from his diet. He also has multiple dietitians and chefs and needlessly restricts himself for performance.

Veganism has only been proven healthier than the typical American diet which is terrible to begin with. Processed meats are unhealthy and factory farming is unethical but that doesn't mean that balanced diet consisting of whole foods is not the healthiest by far. The argument for the immorality of the argument always rests on factory farming as the only method of producing meat. Local free ranged grass-fed meat if eaten responsibly can be better for the environment than veg grown using certain pesticides and shipped across the globe. The animals can also live a very happy life (much better than many humans) up until the point of death which is usually painless. If you argue that any suffering is unjust and they are better to not be born into the world than please tell me your thoughts on antinatalism.

The only rational argument for all forms of meat-eating to be categorically bad would be if you were to prescribe to Buddhist/Hindu traditions. If so the argument is not a rational one but I support you for having it, they do, however still drink milk.

Reminder that this is what Exo-Fascists want
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

>>13296777
People forget the reason for factory farming very easily. A few decades ago it was heralded as a miracle that we can properly feed the population in 1st world countries because previously the lower classes were malnourished. I'm sure you'd only have to go back as far as 100 years to have large parts of the population only eating bread for the majority of their meals.

>>13296744
>how are oats, lentils, potatoes expensive moron
>oh you don't just eat these, you meant to eat all these other things too

Your diet looks depressing but do you actually think 5g of flaxseeds contain enough cholesterol to produce adequate amounts of testosterone? It does explain why you are so irritable.

>>13295353
Doesn't youtube-dl work on your computer?

>>13293075
>Vegan diets are totally healthy
Do you have any links to start with vegetarianism? My main issue is the nutritional aspect, especially since I lift weights. Maybe money as well if it's very expensive, but I doubt it.

>>13296754
>pescetarianism
I think this is the patrician choice.

>>13296818
Well, I'm going to read into his diet because i train martial arts everyday for two hours and need to make up for the calorie loss, and usually make it up with fish, but i'm willing to look into a more restrictive diet if i'm get to keep my six pack and hardons while slaying pussy.

>>13296877

You make up for calorie loss with fish, something that is almost entirely protein-based and extremely low in calories.

The vegans in this thread seem to be the only ones with any knowledge of nutrition whatsoever

>>13296736
>he thinks the average diet includes conscious choices about including a large variety of veggies
big lol. Are you familiar at all with how Americans eat?

>adds 12 green beans cooked in butter as side dish to meatloaf and pasta with butter sauce
eating my veggies for the day!

>adds half a cup of peas and carrots cooked in butter as side dish to pork chops cooked in butter
boy am I eating real good and healthy for dinner!

> salad with lettuce, cabbage, tomatoes, next to my heavy butter milk cheese meat spaghetti bolognese
this is a balanced meal.

No need to kid anyone mate the average non-vegan eats way too much meat and animal products. And meat and animal products are incredibly energy dense, WAY too much for any of our needs at the speed we're eating them.

Too much even if he were a hunter.
way way way too much still for a person who spends 90% of his life practically immobile.

>>13291991
And the only way that God can save us is by global collapse, a new Flood

>>13296818
You seem to be believing a common misconception, namely that a vegan diet has to be controlled by various team of dietitians and hourly blood-tests or else your brain starts eating itself. I've described what a vegan diet can consist of here ( >>13295658 ), and that's even WITHOUT any greens (I personally don't like the taste), which can be a major source of (vegan) nutrition.
After you read that, you can consider yourself informed in about 99% of human nutrition.
>Veganism has only been proven healthier than the typical American diet which is terrible to begin with.
Entirely false, those on a vegan see statistically significant positive health outcomes compared to omnivores, pescatarians, vegetarians, lacto-ovo-vegetarians and low-carb-ers, you can check virtually any major randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses on pubmed for that.

>>13296874
see >>13295658
>use cronometer.com
>get most of your calories from grains/beans (you'll get virtually all minerals you need from those also)
>fruits/greens for vitamin C
>a bit of flax/chia seeds for omega3/6 and vitamin K
>sweet potato/carrots for vitamin A
>if it's the case, supplement accordingly with b12 and/or iodine
Common anti-vegan memes:
>phytates
completely debunked, phytic acid is associetad in the latest studies with better bone mineral density; it also stimulates activity of Natural Killer cells (those fellers that kill cancer)
>lectins
beans/lentils (the biggest source of lectins) are literally the food that has the highest association with best health outcome (i.e. not dying and living healthily);
>pre-formed DHA
considered until pretty recently to be THE biggest deal with vegan diets who don't include pre-formed algae DHA (fish don't make DHA, they get it from algae), but randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses show that there's no association between disease-specific or all-cause mortality and not only that, DHA seems to increase the risk of prostate cancer for men. all the DHA humans need is converted accordingly by the liver (your rate of conversion goes up the less pre-formed DHA/EPA you consume)
A few things more to take home:
1) cronometer by default uses the USA's RDA for the nutrients, not a big deal except for calcium, values for which are shamelessly upped by the USDA. you need less than half of that RDA, with some reputable institutions going as low as 450mg as a recommended daily intake. in short, if you don't lose calcium (coffee,chocolate,tea, etc), have a proper diet and exercise accordingly based on your age and sex, your chance of getting osteoporosis is virtually 0
2) their vitamin A numbers may be confusing, so its better to refer to either wikipedia or nutritiondata.self.com for properly converted numbers
3) soak whole grains and beans overnight; also, cook the beans with onions/garlic, as it improves mineral absorbtion

>>13296874
>do you have any links to start with vegetarianism?
Get yourself some veggies
Throw them in the oven
15 minutes. 300 degrees.
40 minutes 200 degrees.
35 minutes 150 degrees.
It doesn't matter they're veggies

There are two secrets to veganism.
The first is easy: diversity. Eat EVERYTHING. Veggies are fuckin cheap, an onion is like 5 cents, one carrot is again 5 cents, a potato is like 10 cents, a handful of sesame seeds is like 2 cents, broccoli is like 30 cents a head, muhrooms can be as cheap as two dollars per kilo..
JUST COMBINE EVERYTHING.
That way you won't have to worry about your zinc or iron or Vit K or protein or anything. If your plate has at least 5 different looking food items, with different consistency, color, and taste, then you're probably good.

Second secret: understanding what veggies are.
Root veggies: anything you eat that's the root. Carrots, Potatoes, Yams, etc. High in starch and calories, these veggies are mostly carbs.
Green veggies: lettuce, spinach, cabbage, broccoli, etc. These are high in fibre, they make u shit good, have low calories, and usually carry iron (dark greens carry iron) and other nutrients.
Seeds and pulses: these are all the types of beans, peas, sesame seeds, flax seeds, lentils, etc.. This is the shit that grows into plantlife when planted, which means they are calorically very dense and full of protein.
Grains: rice, barley, wheat, etc. High in carb
Nuts and fruits: great as supplements and snacks. Nuts are high in proteins and fats, fruits are high in natural sugars.

And remember: every food item has fat, carbs, and protein. If it didn't it couldn't be a living thing.
It's what it has a most of that we want to look into - rice has protein but we treat it as a carb, for example, because it has very little protein, but a lot of carb.

>>13296576
>>13296609
>poor single-parent household

You must be American, they always seem to talk like princesses living in the palace. Try explaining to anyone in the rest of the world that putting a pot with cereal and water on the stove and returning in 20-30 minutes when it's done is extremely time-consuming. Meat requires at least some cutting in the laziest of recipes. What you compare is not vegan and non-vegan diets, it's processed shit you microwave against actual food. No wonder you don't get it, as even the poor in your country are pushed into buying shit, as opposed to normal situation when they can't afford these value-add products.

Veganism-as-a-lifestyle hipsters with their fashionable magical products are just as retarded, though. Don't even tell me how much you have paid for the buckwheat™, here it costs nearly half as much as rice because of the good crops last year.

>>13295658
>>13296671
You can't get enough b-12 from unwashed vegetables and risking parasites in your water supply, just take the supplements.

>>13296725
Heh, young kids would probably be happiest with the same meal, whatever it is, everyday. Some of them even insist on it. t. parent of 4.

>>13296874
Vegetarianism is easier than vegan. You'd just need a bunch of whey protein or such for weight lifting.

>>13296618
What are you talking about?

>>13297523
>just take supplements
or drink plant milk, a majority of which are enriched.
or consume vegemite/marmite
or consume nutritional yeast
there's a few more options, but I forget. all three above options are incredibly easy to do, since you only need a little bit of milk/yeast/marmite to gain all the B12 you need.

>>13296725
>who the fuck eats oats, lentils, and potatoes?
Are you really asking who eats three of the most common staples of human diet throughout history?

oats for breakfast with banana and onions milk and berries or an apple.
(oats ~ 5 cents, one banana ~ fifteen cents, onions milk ~ 5 cents, berries ~ 20 cents frozen, apple ~ 20 cents, total: around $1~$2.

rice with lentils and carrots and spinach and onions and garlic and sesame seeds for lunch
(rice ~ 30 cents, lentils ~ 20 cents, carrots ~ 10 cents, spinach ~ 20 cents, onions ~ 10 cents, garlic ~ 10 cents, sesame seeds ~ 5 cents, total: around $1~$3, depending on how much you buy in bulk)

Potatoes and peppers, and peas and eggplant, mushrooms, cauliflower/broccoli, onions, garlic, tomatoes, and cabbage
(Potatoes ~ $1, peppers ~50cent, eegplant ~$1, muhrooms ~$1, cauliflower/broccoli ~ 50cent, onions ~ 10 cents, tomatoes ~50 cents, cabbage ~20 cents, total: $4~$6.)

At my most conservative, buying in bulk, and avoiding expensive veggies, I was paying around $6 for food per day.

Cheapest (50cents per meal range): onions, carrots, garlic, cabbage, lentils, beans, potatoes, seeds, bananas, oranges, apples, rice, oats
Medium ($2 per meal range): broccoli, muhsrooms, cauliflower, tomatoes, peppers, squash, courgettes, frozen fruits, tofu, chickpeas, peas, beets, radishes, okra
Expensive ($3 and above per meal): shiitake/oyster/non-button mushrooms, asparagus, artichoke, fresh berries, can't think of anything more expensive without getting into "exotic smelly fruit from Asia" category.

For life in big city NY/LDN/SF/etc., adjust prices up by 20% to 50%, depending on availability. (Bananas, for example, are dirt cheap in all cities because there is one monopoly farm that produces it all in Brazil, if I remember correctly)

>>13291972
>>13291955
>mfw only eat the elk meat I hunt myself

>>13297523
>You can't get enough b-12 from unwashed vegetables and risking parasites in your water supply, just take the supplements.
I was not saying that in relation to city dwellers, I was mentioning a marginal group of people who mostly or entirely sustain themselves with their own crops while at the same time living in areas with unpolluted waters and soils. In the Okinawan study, the people were not suffering from B12-related conditions, although dietary intake was quite low.
Even so, given how cheap and safe it is, only raw vegans would abstain from taking it.

>>13297638
Plant milks are a scam and I think no one should buy them. You could avoid producing more waste like cardboard and plastic by just buying your plain fucking oats or nuts or whatever they make milk from nowadays.
Also
>oats for breakfast with banana and onions milk and berries or an apple.
>onions milk
>reddit spacing
if you weren't vegan I'd call you a newfag, but let's say you're a newfriend for now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmbOXy_5Cjc

You'll die one day too.

Vegans eternally seething. LMAO.
Those chicks are cute, doesn't look they suffered, if I'm being honest.

>>13297638
I wasn't saying it was hard. I was saying, following the rumor that you get enough by just not washing your vegetables is going to cause you permanent health problems.

>>13297660
Crazy talk. Marginal people straight up eat dirt, that's not the same thing. And Okinawans were even vegan? More likely this study, from probably decades ago, maybe wasn't so well designed, and they missed some b-12 source, like the quarterly sea urchin festival or some crap

>>13291955
Every rebirth leads to suffering and death. Each of us was in these chicks’ situation countless times.

Get out of Samsara.

>>13297902
>Marginal people straight up eat dirt,
dude what are you talking about? I'm only saying that less sanitized produce and water from 'B12 friendly' sources do have enough B12. I'm not recommending anyone to NOT take a supplement, simply because it has no side effects (like calcium supplements for example, which increases CVD risk), but there is this possibility.

>>13296909
nice strawman faggot. come back when you have an actual argument

>>13297902
And no, the Okinawans weren't vegan, but they had a very low percentage of calories coming from animal products (1% fish, <1% dairy, <1% eggs, <1% meat).
The Okinawan study is not supposed to make you follow their diet, they themselves were eating that way simply because of post-war conditions. It's supposed to show what the absence of meat cause or contribute to, namely really big reductions in CVD, type 2 diabetes and so on.
On the other hand their diet was deficient in several nutrients which, coupled with the fact that they were also lacking in overall calories, the study reported fertility/lactation problems.

>>13291955
I grow my own eggs and eat my own chicken. I'm from the ozarks so I have a third world pallet that likes lean gamey meat, I prefer game fowl and Guinea hen to factory poultry. I've always experienced the complete irreverenence for life displayed on poultry growing operations from a young age, even human life. The meat processing companies also treat their growers as inanimate investments. The ecology devastation caused by meat is the worst for me, especially when it's so easy to have livestock in a healthy community removed from mammon. Everyone could have their own eggs, but most of you rats are too cucked by homeowners associations to even have the option of keeping livestock, growing crops or even letting the grass grow to seed. Truly sad the way people are forced into supermarket homogenization.

>>13297972
And I'm saying it is insufficient. Because it is. Quit slogging that around, some idiot will try it.
Also some peoples do eat dirt for nutrient contents. So do other animals.

>>13298010
Yeah... that's a lot of reasons it doesn't apply to anyone else.

>>13297952
Better to live 1000 lives as one of those chicks, than one as a vegan.

>>13293882
>the fetishization of animal lives
Would you mind if I came over to your house and beat your dog to death with a hammer while you watched?

>>13291955
didn't teddy boy hunt and eat animals?

>wrong to eat animals
>fine to use iphones which have abs plastics that use glycerin for binding
>fine to get tattoos most of which use non vegan ink
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>13299300
going "i won't eat meat/ buy leather/ etc it's not my fault now (:" is contemptable anyways

>>13298725
I don't own a dog, lel. If I did, it would be my personal property, much like livestock for much of human history.

>>13299314
I wonder if a vegans house gets infested with ants do they just live with ants or does it become fine to kill them

>>13291955
I honestly don't get what's so "bad" about this, they die almost instantly, 1000 better that those videos where some guys stomp on them

>>13299324
idk i eat meat but i catch any insects i find and put them outside
won't eat them either

ultimately to live is to destroy other life and consume it for energy
the first life forms instantly started devouring each other to grow stronger and develop little instruments to kill more effectively
just a difference of where you draw the line culturally, like you wouldn't eat a dog either most likely

>>13291955
I've known this for years. Does it bother me? Yes it does. Does it stop me from eating eggs? No it doesn't. Theres so much worse shit happening out there, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many people that are against the cruelties of an industrial society but only few of them have the power to make a change. And of those there are even fewer that have the will to do so. Future generations will see us as barbarians the way we see many of our ancestors today. Only time will bring change, time and suffering.

>>13296570
fucking kek

>>13296441

Who the hell is "we". Different countries have different standards and practices.

>grain feed
Comes in different grades. Not all is marketable and suitable for human consumption.

>water
Is not a limfac in the western world except in a handful of specific locales.

>>13294120
We already knew Christcucks were niggers, anon.

>>13295653
https://youtu.be/qj-iqK0y4T4

>>13296689
>Inventors of Latin understood metaphysical concepts such as souls

>>13299300
please inform me what is wrong with ABS plastic. I am really very curious

>>13300749
This is a dumb, jokey post; and yet, Christians, especially Catholics, have the only way forward of any people in this thread, and in the entire West.

Seriously, the Cross, the Crucifixion, is the only pathway to escape Ted's paradox. To die to the world, in order to receive it back; to lose everything, in order to receive it all again. That's how you solve the paradox of industrial society. All the Protestants don't know how to do this. A lot of Catholics don't, either; but not ALL of them have forgotten.

>>13292023
>>13292245
>>13293572
imbeciles, just because he uses flowery terms does not mean that it has no meaning beyond the spiritual
a society based on silent slaughter will breed even more horrific things in the future, this is the stain and the crippled potential

why are you posting landian technofetishists along with perennials? lend some coherence to your argument

>>13296909
>anglos and their shitty colonies can't into food
colour me surprised

a hypothetical i've always wanted to ask a vegan:

let's say you are protesting a zoo that's keeping a lion in captivity. your efforts are successful, and the zoo agrees to free the lion back into the wild, but there's a catch. they give the lion to you and tell you it's your job to get it back to the wild. it's going to need to eat before you can get it home. how do you ethically get meat for the lion?

>>13291991
>nly a god can save us.
Kaczynski is that god.

Read "Anti-Tech Revolution" and "Technological Slavery"

lab grown meat is the future but i'm certain religiousfags will stand in the way of it, just like they'll stand in the way of molecular manufacturing

>>13292279
>Death is a bad thing

Lmao

>>13297523
>>13297252
>>13297138
Thanks for your replies.

>>13301480

the lion is a legitimate carnivore and needs meat to live, unlike humans. so i wouldn't have any problem with feeding it meat. assuming i had enough money and time to actually fulfill your hypothesis, i would source meat that the zoo already had or meat that was freely given or bought and not used for another activity.

futhermore, even if many of the animals in this hypothetical zoo get sick and die as a result of the protesting, it breaks the cycle of capturing and breeding the animals in the first place, which will eventually be more of a good thing than a bad thing

>>13293284
I financially support proctologists. Doesn't mean I need to watch them jam a periscope up an old man's ass.

>>13293340
"Only a god can save us" is not a religious message, it's a reference to the fact that without a supreme set of morals that everyone strictly adheres to, human beings will do horrible things.

The "god" can be anything. It's a metaphor for something elevated and metaphysical, like a code of ethics. Even in atheist philosophies on ethics, a god and your code are equal, in the sense that they only exist as ideas people have had. They do not exist in any immanent sense. You cannot visit place and SEE a physical moral code, you an only ever experience the idea.

So, in short, learn to spot a fucking metaphor. Is Heidegger actually an atheist? Eh, maybe, maybe not. But this quote is obviously not in reference to any specific god, but to the notion that human beings need metaphysical guidance to temper their worst impulses.

>>13296647
>Projecting your sedentary bugman life onto us

>>13296647

theres a 55~ year old man that i work with in my department every day. his gut looks like its at 9 months. every day he drinks 3 pepsis and eats 2 tv dinners at work. then he cries about being bipolar and not having energy. it is fucking frightening

https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1138521657247768577
Watch this and name a single thing Ted K said or did wrong.

Industrial revolution was a mistake. We should return to good old days of slavery.

>>13291991
what a semitic physiognomy

>>13291955
>https://twitter.com/GWOT_Enthusiast/status/1138866102090510336
Is this how meat for chicken nuggets is made? And does the fact that this doesn't disturb me in the slightest make me a bad person?

>>13302539

those are the male chicks that become roosters. they don't lay eggs, and the meat doesn't taste particularly good in comparison to the females, so they get slaughtered immediately. and it doesn't make you a bad person, just a mediocre one

>>13302588
>just a mediocre one
that's fine by me, at least mediocre people have sex and that's all that matters.

>>13302658

yeah i agree

>>13294273
Maybe you should.

>>13302241
why should the right of the lion to live be greater than the antelope's right to live? let's say a lion eats once a month, you still save a dozen animals a year.

>>13302241
humans need meat to live as well. just because you don't die right away if you leave it out, doesn't mean it isn't necessary.

>>13302724

both of them are motivated by their hunger when it comes to food, not reason or any kind of logical faculty, so it's stupid to put the same standards of diet for a human onto an animal, especially one that actually needs meat to live. ideally, the lion and antelope also live in an ecosystem where the lion population keeps the antelope population in check by mostly eating the sick and the elderly and there is relative harmony in that. you should be able to see how this is different from humans, who domesticate and breed animals because they have lots of calories, taste good, and exercise their cruelty for fun instead of for survival.

>>13302726

no, you don't. you can live a completely vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and not be malnourished in any way. the whole magical "depletion" that people talk about is a scare tactic to keep people eating meat, and nothing more

>>13302807
>no, you don't. you can live a completely vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and not be malnourished in any way. the whole magical "depletion" that people talk about is a scare tactic to keep people eating meat, and nothing more
imagine believing in vegan conspiracy theories.

>>13302818

>conspiracy fact

>>13302807
>ideally, the lion and antelope also live in an ecosystem where the lion population keeps the antelope population in check

we created our own human ecosystem though, and keep the populations in check as well
nobody exercises their cruelty for fun, they either do it to make a living, if it's hunting it's far more humane than a kill by any other predator - again, people eat what they hunt, or do it for bounty money to get a population in check

animals are far more cruel

>>13302807
>no, you don't. you can live a completely vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and not be malnourished in any way.
"You" as in a singular person, yes. "You" as in everybody who eats meat, of course not.

>>13302837
Virgin human hunting vs Chad animal maul

>>13302837

>we created our own human ecosystem though, and keep the populations in check as well

a bad one that causes just as much destruction to ourselves as it does to others, but sure

>nobody exercises their cruelty for fun...

you're ignorant, hunting in the connotation that we're discussing is primarily a sport. there are rare exceptions like deer, which only have gotten out of check as a result of human activity in the first place, or the occasional invasive species, but the majority of hunting is to have "fun" by getting trophies of the kill.

humans also have a rational faculty that the animals do not, so hopefully a goal of yours is to actually use it, to be less like an animal, and less cruel

>>13302843

anybody can be healthy without eating meat. i'm not special

>>13298078
Good post. To anyone considering buying a house: buy or build one in a rural area where you can grow your own food.

>>13292406
based

>>13302908
>anybody can be healthy without eating meat. i'm not special
you missed my point completely, I'm not talking about people who need B12 shots or something like that
humanity as a whole can't all become vegeterian, and definitely not vegan, without death and starvation - as a species we need meat

>>13292012
Agreed but that does not make a case for the existence of gods, unless you are talking about God in a metaphorical sense (meteor hitting Earth or some other unexpected turn of events).

>>13302956

i understood you just fine, you're just wrong

>>13292437

Pretty good but it's not due to vegan feefees.

>>13302033
>bahh if he hadn't done what he did

He wouldn't have the amount of recognition if he hadn't done what he did, as unfortunate as that sounds.

>>13292437
>we are literally living in the best times the world has ever seen.
back to /his/, faggot

>>13292437
>we are literally living in the best times the world has ever seen.
Just because you've got your beep boop phone toy doesn't mean that life is remotely worth living these days.

>>13302539
It makes you a psychopath. Whether or not that is bad is another debate.

>>13304140
humans literally evolved to kill and eat animals, it doesn't make you a psychopath ffs

>>13304157
Theres nothing natural about industrialized killing of livestock.

>>13304173
Do you think the chicken cares if it gets its head caved in with a rock or pulverised by machinery?

>>13304140
>waaah, he doesn't throw a hissy fit when looking at food being processed, he must be a psychopath
go eat a söyburger, fairy faggot.

>>13292310
>>13292220
He's not against technology per se, but against technology that is the product of a worldview that regards all entities as meaningless resources standing by for optimization; or something.

>>13296909
>big lol. Are you familiar at all with how Americans eat?
50% carbs?

>>13304183
everyone who's not an edgy moral nihilist btfo forevet!

Can someone explain why industrialized factory slaughterhouses seem so wrong and traditional village raised farm animal slaughtering doesn’t seem so bad?

>>13304907

they're both bad, but the abuses and the scale of the industrial farming are much worse

>>13304907
>scale
>distance

>>13296909
I hope you realize how hard you're straw manning

The suffering of beings without self awareness is irrelevant.

>>13304907
Low IQ. Scale is arbitrary when moral judgments are concerned.

Read Ishmael. Or at the very least the plot summary on wikipedia, which for the most part sums up Quinn's argument, though not as effectively.

>>13292012
If there was a god, why hasn't he saved us yet? What the fuck is he waiting around for?

>>13293349
babies are dumber than retards. we should just eat the inferior ones

>>13293075
The problem is that plants are conscious too. In fact, they're the superior form of life, since they don't need to kill anything to survive. The only truly moral path in life is immediate suicide.

>>13292012
This

>>13293325
Animals are innocent. Most humans aren't. Sure, kids are innocent, but once they reach middle school they become vicious and cruel

>>13292279
>Humans breed billions of livestock (that otherwise would not exist) to eat
>Humans multiply in numbers because of this food surplus
>Humans become uneasy in the artificial slaughterhouse they have created and want to end it
>>>Lmao if u stop now u kill cows and humans

All these humans and animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for this sick system being created in the first place. Obviously a massive, global change of food production systems would be needed to opt out of killing a hundred billion animals a year. Just like a massive, global change of economic systems would be needed to opt out of the murderous machine that free market capitalism has become. Your thinking is so entwined with the current hegemony that you cannot imagine anything else, which makes you a stupid and pathetic human and an irrelevant cog in somebody else's vision of the world.

>>13295562
>But the animals themselves are just as brutal as us
Nigga what? When was the last time chickens enslaved and killed billions of other species for hedonistic enjoyment?

>>13293473
The anglo devil defeated him though

>>13297643
Noice. I'm moving to America this fall. Do they allow non-citizens to own guns for hunting?

>>13306973
Only blacks for hunting whites.

>>13291955
Can someone explain the logic to me ? What are they even arguing against ? The method or the act ? It seems kind of retarded to on one hand agree with the slaughter of animals but get angry because we're getting very efficient at it. Are they mad because it's done by machines and not "trad" butchers ?

>>13293879
What does it matter? Somewhere else another 50 kids are dying in this very moment due to hunger, killed by the human greed for capital and luxury.

>>13306992
How do you not understand? Are you mentally impaired?
Industrialized agony, suffering and torture on a scale of billions of living, feeling and sentient beings is obviously worse than having a farmer with a few pigs, a few dozen chickens and 10 goats or so, who live a more or less content life until they die of old age or are killed. Of course it is not "good" to kill other beings, but it should be quite obvious that it is better than this global genocide that we look onto with apathy and ignorance, if we look at it at all.

>>13307461
Why would you even compare the two you braindead faggot, both have to answer to very different demands, an industry has to provide for potentially millions of people and a man just has to provide for himself and probably his family.
The only difference here is scale, it's either wrong to slaughter sentient beings or you have different standards for ethical consideration, one party being more efficient at it doesn't exhonorate the other.

>>13306866
>never met a toddler
>or a cat

>>13306918
>what are ants?

>>13306973
Shoot dog, you can even get a concealed carry permit (in some states.)

>>13307461
Where is the torture? The agony? First they were looking reasonably content, then faster than sight they are tiny bits of animal. You think home farmers can do better? Or somehow a million animals in one spot is worse than a million animals in 100,000 spots?

>>13307467
Nice argument there, if every one of these millions of people would have to provide themselves with meat, eggs and milk, maybe it would not be so ignorant for them to ignore the well being of their lifestock, because the meat that you eat is part of "your animal", just because you never even knew it doesnt mean its not yours. The suffering and the well being of a sentient being on this earth is tied to your consumption nitwit, so we should be more responsible.

>>13307964
>Ignorant for them
I meant easy.