/lit/ - Literature

>>13289899
Oh neet. Now Canadians has a place they can exercise free speech

>>13289899
>"Safe-spaces are for weak chinned liberals"
>creates big faggot safe-space
>"It's 'anti-censorship' and that means nobody can tell us that we're mean and stupid anymore"

gotta love that horseshoe, bruv

>>13290033
dilate

>>13290033
I'm sure this is bait, but do you not see how absurd it is to compare a place that stifles speech and expression, and a place that protects speech and expression? Safe spaces on college campuses silenced people, locked them out, or fired them to "protect" the feelings and fragile identities of hysterical students. A place like thinkspot does the opposite, to the good of everyone.

>>13290134

>>13289899
>>13290033

>Comments on the site would be voted on by users on a thumbs up or down basis. “If your ratio of down votes to up votes, falls below 50/50, then your comments will be hidden,” Peterson said.

literally no better than reddit

>>13290136
We've seen what happens when you give free speach. It becomes 4chan and /pol/.

Which is fine but I can't see it going to well if the entire site just becomes counter culture.

>>13289899
I read it, it was alright, but it is geared toward kids. Just basic stuff that formerly most youngsters would have learned from their parents.

>>13289899
Hey look even broken clocks are right twice a day

>>13290150
The truth doesn’t fear opposition.

>>13290150
4chan and /pol/ are small prices to pay to avoid the alternative. The alternative is so much worse than anything we north Americans and Europeans can fathom.

>>13290193
If people desire to end free speech to further their politics it’s already here

>>13290146
Ah, speech under the control of direct democracy! You know, democracy: 9 people voting to lynch a tenth person. I am sure it will be very free so long as you say what is "popular". I am assuming that discussion of the J Q will be verboten...

So Jordan Peterson basically creates his own private 4channel

>>13290199
...and that's a bad thing!

>>13290212
I can see the MSN news article now: Peterson's 'Thinkspot' a breeding ground for radical incels

>>13290136
you daft cunt, you really think "anti-sjws" are better than "sjws" don't you?

You got one side going, "HE WON'T CALL ME ZIR, DRIVE HIM OUT OF MY SPACE!"

And you got the other side going "HE GOT MAD AT ME WHEN I TOLD HIM I HATE JEWS! DRIVE HIM OUT OF MY SPACE!"

And you're BOTH retarded.

>>13290146
no no no Jordan NO!!!!!

>>13290146
If they don’t hide downvoted posts it could be dope

>>13290146
And it’s even subscription based. What a bloody disaster

>>13290363
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>>13290256
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>>13290199
>>13290193
>>13290169
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>>13290146
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>>13290134
>>13290095
>>13290033
>>13289899
his putrid wife is dying from cancer and he's still all out to make some MORE money.
is this guy so neurotic that he wants his family 15 generations from now to live on the
>clean your room
bucks from 300 years ago and never have to work a damn day in their lives, just like her whore daughter does?

>Newsheadline 18 hours after launch
>"The N-Word Has Been Posted Over One Billion Times On Jordan Peterson's New Freespeech Platform

>>13290402
it's autism

>>13289899
Yes I read his book. It wasn’t that great, but by no means horrid. While clearly the ostensible theme tying everything together was the need for order in one’s life, it all felt jumbled. It was just twelve maxims stringed together and supported with a whole litany of facts/research from the social sciences. I just wasn’t sure where JBP wanted to take the book. I think he could’ve done a whole lot better. He’s really at his best when he’s describing archetypal stories and then tying them back to the lives of individuals (and I seem to recall that he does that partially with the creation stories in Genesis). I would’ve preferred a little less random social science trivia and more archetypal stories.

Also: probably could’ve cut down on some of the topics. I definitely would’ve made them more concise in terms of the rule names. Also, lots of the stuff in the book isn’t at all original (although maybe the masses to which JBP was appealing toward were unaware of this). Stuff in the chapter on friends is like a bad version of Aristotle’s On Friendship.

Ideally, I think the book should’ve been split up into two sections: Six rules for order (in both politics and culture), and six rules on chaos (how to deal with it, how to make the most of it, how to be creative). I think it would’ve been a bit more balanced that way. From there, it’d be niceness if each rule laid out an archetypal story (biblical, Greek, Egyptian, Sumerian, etc) and used that story to explain the rule. That’s what he does in most of his lectures (certainly all
of his good lectures) and why I think people gravitate toward him.

Photo for referencing Da Rulez

The only person I know that read Peterson is a depressed right-wing boomer, it told me all I needed to know.

>>13289899
>it's literally just reddit

How’s his daughter’s carnivorous kid doing?

>>13290529
Is this pic real. I wanna believe.

>>13290402
Is this not the goal of all fathers? Wouldn’t you want to do the same for your children?

>>13290169
>who claims truth, truth abandons

>>13289899
No but Peterstein's most ardent detractors are pozzed up trannies who deserve nothing but scorn. He's a glorified self-help guru, nothing to get your surgical wound contracted over.

>>13290033
if it were free speech you could tell them they were stupid and mean. Why is this concept so hard to grasp. Not like memerson would actually allow free speech

>>13290916
no you couldn't, because that's why they're making these "anti-safespaces" because they say stupid shit, and then everyone tells them they're assholes, and they don't want to be called assholes. They just want to say hitler was right and nigger without consequence, and they're assblasted because they can't

>>13290836
Unfortunately, yes. Those are the 12 rules for life.

I love my edaddy!

>>13289899
>free speech platform
Clearly this nigga never heard of the chans.
*ahem*
Fuck Juden Peterson and fuck jannies too

>>13290276
There isn't "anti-SJWs are better than SJWs." A person's right to speak and express their opinions openly is completely separate from their "goodness" or "badness" as a person. So you're looking at this with completely the wrong rubric. The point is NOT that genderqueerfags are stupid and authoritarian, nor is it that antisemitism is still alive and well; the point is that once you start limiting free speech for emotional or to restrict ideas, YOU ARE A TYRANT AND DESERVE TO BE BEHEADED IMMEDIATELY.
That is the fucking point. You see, you're so immersed in this "culture war" that you're actually starting to believe the rhetoric the two sides use. So sad.

>>13290932
I will lay it out for you since you're apparently literally retarded

Scenario A: you call someone a nigger on reddit and get banned, not free speech

Scenario B: you make a forum where everyone calls each other niggers, someone comes and calls you an asshole, you ban them. Not free speech

Scenario C: you can call people niggers, other people can call you an asshole, nobody gets banned. Free speech

>>13289938
>Free speech platform
Doubt it, Faith Goldy was too hardcore for him.

>>13290146
terrible.

Slashdot still has the best community driven moderation system.

peterson is still a thing? I thought he would be in hiding after Zizek clowned on him

>>13290985
that's the thing though, anybody can say what they want, but there are consequences. You can masturbate whenever you want, but if you do it on a fucking bus, then there's going to be a fucking problem.

Not being able to say what you want whenever you want has ALWAYS been a thing. You can call your friends faggots, but say that to your boss and you're fucked. Is that censorship?

There are always consequences, and times change. People used to gleefully be able to say nigger whenever and wherever and as loud as they wanted. Now you can't. Are the consequences sometimes disproportionate? Yes, but that with literally ANYTHING. And getting kicked out of school for playing kill the queer isn't even top 100 unfairest punishments.

If you want to do whatever you want without repercussion, just say you're a fucking anarchist, drink your pabst and fuck off.

>>13291118
and the point of a free speech site is to see what happens when anyone can say what they want without getting banned

Are you seriously not able to understand this exceedingly simple concept

>>13290990
it's still free speech if it only affects the reprobates

>>13291140
>the reprobates
arbitrary and meaningless. You really are too dumb or maybe just dishonest

>>13289899
I can't wait to spam leftist propaganda there and see how long it takes me to get banned

>>13291147
Yeah you should spam all the hard data on how brown people are just as smart as whites

>>13291144
t. reprobate

>>13291140
Tell me:
1) what can be said on reddit that should be bannable
2) what cannot be said on reddit that should be bannable
3) what cannot be said on reddit that should not be bannable

>>13291168
nice false flag, but everyone knows leftists are the REAL racists

>>13291118
We're talking about on public platforms, in public spaces, and amongst free people in voluntary interactions. Your boss has authority over you as an employer. A company has authority over the product it sells. All organizations have guidelines to prevent harassment, violence, threats, and other things which undermine productivity or society. That is not the issue.

The issue is: can we let a small but vocal minority dictate what, to most other people, is NOT UNREASONABLE, and then, with their new arbitrary, strict standards, demand firings, lawsuits, and imprisonment to those who express views they find unsavory? This isn't a matter of two retarded extremes fighting against each other...it is the two extremes imposing their extreme and retarded perceptions and ideas on the reasonable middle, where most people across all societies, classes, races, and ages exist.

There is tact and reasonableness required here and the two extremes, right now and for the last five years anyway, are the ones dictating the terms when they have the worst and least reasonable of all views.

We always have and will face repercussions for what we say. The point is that people in government, the workplace, institutions of learning, etc. ALL KNOW HOW TO JUDGE A PERSON'S WORDS. We must not insist that we have a governmentally-outlined and enforced rubric for acceptable speech. We just do what we've always done: dislike people who are rude, crude, or racist. And like people who are polite, honest, and tactful. It ends at the people, not in a policy.

...this all not to mention that, once you tighten the reigns on speech in general, you open the door to malicious authoritarianism, rather than just retarded and immature authoritarianism.

>>13291133
THAT'S 4CHAN YOU DUMB FUCK! Whatever other website some intellectual douche tries to establish, it'll end up like every other forum. You think people won't get banned just because the forum is an "anti-safespace"? No matter how hard you insist, in a society with people, there are always going to be rules regulating speech. It's a natural function of social interaction, and just because there's all these dumbshits running around talking about how they're "anti-PC, free speech activists" that doesn't change how things work on a fundamental level!

>>13291179
sure Im a reprobate and you have to watch me exist here and express my reprobate opinions or go elsewhere

>>13289899
So essentially, a giant r/jordanbpeterson?

>>13291207
>..this all not to mention that, once you tighten the reigns on speech in general, you open the door to malicious authoritarianism, rather than just retarded and immature authoritarianism.
man, I'm afraid that ship already left the harbor a long time ago

>>13291118
>>13291133
>>13291207
>>13290276
>that spacing
go back to r/lobsters you fatherless suicidal mutts

>>13291213
4chan is not really free speech. The 'free speech' boards are things like b2 over on 8ch and they dont typically last very long because they attract the attention of people who just post illegal content every day and whoever runs it gets paranoid and tightens the posting rules. 4chan has pol and b, which are relatively free, but not entirely, and they dont actually pretend to be free.

If your point is that some charlatan like Peterson wouldn't actually allow practical free speech then yes no shit.

>>13291225
Not an argument

>>13291240
I wasn't making an argument you nigger, do you really think I'm reading any of your reddit-spaced blogposts ?

>>13291217
lol cope

>>13291190
I don't know why don't you stay there if you're interested to find out ;)

>>13291247
It's not a cope, I can start shitposting about black IQ and you just have to watch it because there's not really anything you can say.

>>13289899
>subscription-based

>>13291256
Oh we both agree you can act like an idiot :)

>>13291140
that's like the definition of not being free speech.

>>13291280
no one cares :)

>>13291269
Right that's free speech. you have to coexist with someone telling you that every place on earth that is majority black is unpleasant, and that this is due to genetic reasons.

>>13291292
sure but I don't have to take you seriously or encourage it lol

someone post the shovel dog webm to get rid of some of those reddit summerfags please

>>13291301
No but you have to look like you have absolutely no counter argument, and probably are actually aware of what Im saying, but just desperately don't want to confront it.

>>13291310
You're the kekistani so I don't know why you're calling me desperate.

>>13291236
That's the point. 4chan is as free as it gets. This place is the anti-safespace MRAs want. Freer is deep web live-streaming hate crimes shit.

a "free speech forum" would just be a circle jerk of incels complaining to each other that their gay tranny cousin gets more tail than them. What do they even want to say that is so impossible to say now? "I don't like trannys"? "Hitler was right"? Look around. There are three separate threads right now about how women are retarded toddlers.

People peddling this shit are just wailing pussies that can't take the fact that other people want to be treated with basic human respect. (vocal minorities notwithstanding)

Basing an entire political movement on the fact that saying nigger is frowned upon in polite company is absolutely insane.

>>13291319
Because you have no argument. You can't say 'well if only blacks are raised in white countries by white parents, they'll stop being dumb and violent'. Because you know there is no study showing that, but there are studies showing that the gap remains in sitiuations like that. You can't really respond at all, so all you can do is ineffectually shitpost about how 'lol i dont care' which just makes you look retarded since you wouldnt post at all if you actually didnt care.

>>13291342
You STILL don't grasp the concept. The people who just want to cry about women don't come here, they have their own sites where you will be banned if you defend women. You can go right now and call everyone in the woman-hating threads an incel and post your opinion about why women are equal or whatever it is you think.

>>13291347
you treat science like a religion lol

>>13289899
take your damn pills bucko

>>13291364
No I really don't I just make a conclusion based on the available evidence. It's certainly true that I could be wrong and every human population on earth could coincidentally have the exact same distribution of innate cognitive ability. The opposing side won't even consider the possibility that their position(entirely lacking in evidence) could be wrong and that populations might differ.

>>13290146
I mostly agree with Peterson on the way he lays out the significance of mythological structures for modern individuals, but I knew something was wrong with the way he thinks about the real world when he proposed that algorithm for sniffing out social justice university courses.

>>13291382
yes you do, stop chasing strawmen and grow up.

>>13291394
Everything I've said is reasonable and obvious, you have completely failed to even attempt to address any of it. This is obviously why the idea of free speech bothers you so much, it makes you look like an idiot when you're compelled to defend the dogmatic beliefs for which you have no evidence but have to believe or be ostracized socially.

>>13291404
>Everything I've said is reasonable
to an alt-right incel maybe

>>13291410
Until you provide even one argument for your position, every post you make just digs your hole deeper

>>13291347
Not him mate, but look at studies regarding childhood exposure to stress and the likelihood of passing on attachment issues to your children. Now think about groups that have been historically under stress in the US. Genes can be activated, or not by environment and we understand very little about it. As far as blacks raised by white parents, I would like to see a comprehensive multi-generational look at it rather than something that sees no longer than one generation, two at best. I'm not saying there aren't differences between groups with regards to various psychometric, nor that a large factor at play isn't genetics. What I'm saying is that you're retarded and too much of a pussy to challenge your beliefs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVXxR8VKLy8 - it's 12 parts. Take notes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGmADfU5HGU - worth watching this and looking up Gabor Mate for the literature he makes reference to when discussing attachment, stress and heritability

>>13291413
the entire crux of your "argument" is that people don't tolerate your whiny bullshit and frankly I don't disagree with that, it's just warranted :)

>>13291118
Look at this ugly amerloc mutt reading his head and beating his chest.
“Muh social contract”
“Much employers enforcing speech codes”
“The media doesn’t NEED to give a platform to your wrong opinions”
“Snowflake”
Literally incapable of understanding the point of nuanced discussion, or why there’s a value to people having opinions that AREN’T simply regurgitation of majority thought with a moral veneer.
These talking points are always the fallback of a particular kind of insufferable American authoritarian- the one that believes their authoritarianism is justified as long as it’s done by institutions and not a centralized government body, that dissidents SHOULD be culled, but not because it’s enforced though, but because of their moral failings. It’s the authoritarian personality of a racially and morally degraded mass man in a country founded on media infaliabity, crass democracy, and capitalism. Tocqueville said a lot about people like you.
As for your hyperbole about getting kicked out of school for “playing kill the queer”, the above paragraph would get me potentially kicked out of many schools, and certainly ostracized from all social networks in America, as well as barred from any gainful employment, and possibly threatened by ideologues. Does that make what I’m saying wrong? Isn’t it the case that sometimes what’s true and what’s socially beneficial are two different things? How many Americans lost their jobs for criticizing the Iraq War? “Don’t think, just be on the winning side of outrage” is the conditioned response of a degenerated mob race, which is instinctual in America and rightfully seen as repulsively oppresssive everywhere else.

>>13291394
hook, line and sinker, eh?

>>13291236
Having a site where the only rule is not to post child porn is about as free as reasonably practicable.

>>13291364
He just doesn't understand it.

>>13291424
Right it would take so much BRAVERY for me to challenge my beliefs on race differences and adopt the mainstream view. The one that doesn't make me a pariah in all of polite society. Do you see that you're retarded?

As for your epigenetic studies you still don't have a single example of a black population in which the gap in race differences has been eliminated. Out of a billion of them.

>>13291426
Except people do tolerate it, you're having to tolerate it right now and no amount of smileys can mask how mad it's making you to have to see it stated right in front of you

>>13291452
>NOOO TAKE ME SERIOUSLY BECAUSE I'M PERSECUTED

lol irony coming from an alt-right snowflake

>>13291460
>Except people do tolerate it,
And yet here you are having a meltdown

>>13291468
I didn't say I was persecuted I mocked the concept that it's brave to be an antiracist in our society, try to keep up

>>13291475
If you call stating a bunch of arguments that you've completely failed to address a meltdown then sure.

>>13291452
Psychological comfort with unexamined beliefs isn't only predicated on what is deemed acceptable by society at large. Not only can you live comfortably with fringe opinions in smaller groups, but there are other temperamental factors at play that makes one too much of a pussy to examine their beliefs - fringe, or not fringe.

I've given you some recommendations that I think are useful for contextualising your current beliefs. Up to you whether you look at them, or not. Your last phrase shows you don't even understand my position, but that doesn't stop you from jumping at the sjw enemy (who is indeed real) that gives you purpose and conflate with anything that isn't fully congruent with your beliefs.

>>13291487
whining about muh freeze peach isn't much of an argument lol

>>13291510
I did question my beliefs, that's how I ended up thinking there are probably race differences. I grew up in one of the most progressive environments on the planet.

I've read studies before on environmental impact, you are still not addressing the point about race differences.

>>13291479
No it's brave to challenge your beliefs, child.

>>13291515
We're talking about the general cognitive inferiority of sub-saharans, which is an example of the freeze peach being pushed into your face and you having to deal with it. You're basically like a kid being slapped over and over and trying to smile through it

>>13291530
You should try it then if you value bravery. give it a shot, try to understand the evidence for race differences

>>13291531
an inferiority according to who? They aren't white enough for your liking?

>>13291515

>>13291540
I do I'm just not as xenophobic as you

>>13291542
Pick a metric. IQ, gdp per capita, crime rates, brain size, success in law or physics, really just pick something like that, and then look at the statistic for blacks worldwide.

>>13291354
You mean the concept of a website where everybody can say whatever they want?

You say the only boards that are close to free-speech are boards like /b/ and /pol/, but of course there's going to be regulation even there, because some shit is just straight up illegal, like child porn. I hope we can agree that CP doesn't fall under free speech.

And if outside of getting banned for posting CP and Live Murders, 4chan doesn't qualify as free speech, how would 4chan need to change to make it fit that definition?


>>13291445
You can just fuck off.
"Muh" what kind of loser faggot are you? Eat shit.

>>13291553
correlation is not causation and again how is any of that demonstrable of any sort of inferiority?

>>13291521
I have addressed and acknowledged mean value psychometric differences between races in both of my posts. I've already stated that I do believe there are mean value differences in various psychometrics between racial groups all over the world, no matter how you look at them. No disagreement there. My recommendations had to do with why that may be the case. Just because something is, doesn't mean that it can't not be in the future. I think you'd have more to gain from surveying the videos I recommended (and literature mentioned there), than acting out your inability to downvote me.

>>13291569
Inferiority in the sense of being maladapted to modern industrial society.
>>13291571
Yes it is possible that these differences may eventually go away, but there is no evidence of that happening.

>>13291569
nigga at this point you might as well be arguing that dophins are no different from humans

>>13291579
maladapted how? What constitutes "modern industrial society"?

>>13291591
A number of ways, the most well studied is IQ and how it relates to what kind of jobs a person can do

>>13291207
>anon outlines with comprehensive reasoning why this is not absurd to want to support and why this is not comparable to le epic safe space horseshoe meme
>suddenly all the overconfident polemic bullshit replies dry up and accusation of reddit are fired instead
At least keep up the fucking pretense you faggots have a real argument, christ.

>>13289899
>PAYING to use alt-right reddit
lmfao
what a grifter

>>13291604
But how does that make anyone inferior? Perhaps society is ill fitted to the needs of others?

>>13291118
Why are redditors so angry all the time?

>>13290193
It's hilarious that there are people who actually believe this, as if being contrarian actually gave you higher moral understanding and authority. Lacking self-awareness must be a true blessing.

>>13291626
If you mean in some moral sense then that just depends on whatever morality you believe in. I was just talking about intellectual ability as it relates to the sort of tasks we commonly associate with intelligence.

>>13291605
The issue is downvotes (ie: mob majority). Instead of having it dispersed across groups (subreddits), you have the risk of creating a homogeneous majority across the entire platform. As much as I hate to say it, group dynamics and how they map out onto voting may be even worse moderators than something like twitter, or youtube. Especially when the founder of said platform has a public socio-political position. A vague one at that, but still. I'm not claiming he isn't genuinely in support of free speech, or that he'd personally stifle dissent. Nothing like that.

I will check it out, but I'd be surprised if it materialises into something other than r/jbp. That, or whatever group manages to organise and tactically wield its will more efficiently. I doubt it will be a commercial success. More likely something like Gab, filled with people who got their education from anti-sjw youtube videos and are incapable of talking about anything else and nefarious groups that hop on for recruitment.

>>13291225
Dude...the fucking posting window is small by default. After I've typed two or three sentences, it starts to appear unorganized. I create a new paragraph because otherwise it's just a wall of text on a bohemian haiku forum.

>>13291222
Sure, but that doesn't mean we leave that ship unmolested.

>>13291636
What a pointless and ignorant remark. It has literally nothing to do with contrarianism. It has to do with expressing oneself freely and honestly, so that one's MIND is free and honest. There are plenty example of the alternative in the real world, right now. Look 'em up and then make a thread defending those Chinese, Saudi Arabian, or North Korean policies.

>>13289899
Is there any info on why it's subscription based? 20 bucks a month seems like a crazy amount of money just to be able to say nigger

>>13291708
Pay $20 now so when 4chan reaches the point of overmoderation or is simply shut down and the price of free expression online skyrockets, you'll have a nice little corner to hang out in and say nigger.

>>13291624
Imagine paying to use this MKultra honey pot.

>>13291718
I'm not a right wing fag so I wouldn't unironically use it anyway. pol can fucking die for all I care

>>13291657
Yeah, 4chan is already much more of a free-speech site than jordan's reddit is going to be just by its format.

Reddit-style upvote downvotes plus hiding comments incentivises echo chambers like nothing else

>>13291741
It's not actually about the word. But the use and control of the word in the US is perfectly analogous to the dangers and hypocrisy inherent whenever someone tries to control speech. Nigger is just a more handy and offensive example.

>>13291741
If you don't care about free speech or the necessity (or lack thereof) of guaranteed spaces for it, why are you posting in a thread about such spaces and their necessity..?

Are you retarded or something? If you don't have any stake, don't post.

>you can say whatever you want here, the whole POINT is free speech!
>"Nigger"
>you can't say that!
>"Why?"
>[rationalizations and hair-splitting about what is and isn't free speech, plus tons of weird drama resulting from moderators having to enforce arbitrary crackdown measures before the site gets too much bad press for being a hive of "nigger"-saying]
>"Wait, but I paid for this.. And I can't even get what I paid for? You managed to create the only thing WORSE than the Twitter and Facebook censorship-happy websites, at least those were free"
>[more weird rationalizations, more JP's cult-indoctrinated moderators acting like faggot redditors]
>[site becomes laughingstock, goes down in flames]
>[JP still makes another 3 million dollars to spend on his lobotomized mental patient daughter's bikini budget so she can continue tweeting her camel toe pics at him]

>>13291640
Like it or not morality factors big into the human experience and isn't so easily rationalized away

>>13291718
>price of free expression online skyrockets
Never gonna happen. 20$/mo for this is overpriced any way you look at it. You could even use a decentralized reddit like mastodon if you wanna be serious about censorship resistance

I like some of JBP's lectures, I think he gets a bit of a bad rap on reddit and here, but this is truly a shameless cash grab. Wasn't he making a censorship-free patreon as well? what happened to that

>>13291789
The price won't skyrocket. The value, however, will, because there will be extreme scarcity. I'm becoming more convinced every day that the internet in general will be as uninhabitable as TV. It will be purely PC, commercial, low-brow bullshit with NO corners available for open debate and expression. This is why it's imperative that we each find other outlets now.

>>13291798
yeah because what you want to discuss isn't worth defending

>>13291748
because nobody is obligated to give your dumbass racist ideas a platform. You can talk shit all day if you want but I don't have to listen to that bullshit. Free speech is cool but abusing it to spread hatred and offend others isn't. Have some fucking morals you idiot.

>>13291808
you do though lmao, you have to listen to it every time you come here

>>13291772
>>[JP still makes another 3 million dollars to spend on his lobotomized mental patient daughter's bikini budget so she can continue tweeting her camel toe pics at him]
have a (you)
you could've also included the budget for grass-fed steaks and tallow

>>13291812
no because I can press the tab and it's gone. Having to read something would mean that there's no escape.

>>13291824
I meant close*

>>13291718
That's not how freedom of expression works: if someone can oppress it to the point it's worth paying for a free corner, they have more than enough power to crush that free corner too.
Just look at payment processors and banks right now, if things get worse there's no chance a few dozens (or even a few hundreds) dollars per month will be enough to shield yourself.

>>13289899
Will he allow literal neonazis on there? Or any other retard who starts blaming Jews for everything bad in the world?

>>13291824
you should do that right now

>>13291808
>platforms exist
He fell for the meme.

>>13289899
>/pol/, except you have to pay for it
What? Whom is this aimed at? What need does this fulfill that /pol/ doesn't?

>>13291802
That's probably a symptom...the shrinking of stimulating forums for dialogue probably makes us as a species much less interested in exploring complex or meaningful topics.
>>13291832
It's not even about shielding oneself...it's about finding ways other than intellectual dialogue and pursuit to live a meaningful life.

>>13291885
screeching racial epithets and blindly citing scientific study is hardly what I would consider "stimulating"

>>13291808
Among people who have learned something from the 18th century (say, Voltaire) it is a truism, hardly deserving discussion, that the defense of the right of free expression is not restricted to ideas one approves of, and that it is precisely in the case of ideas found most offensive that these rights must be most vigorously defended. Advocacy of the right to express ideas that are generally approved is, quite obviously, a matter of no significance. All of this is well-understood in the United States, which is why there has been nothing like the Faurisson affair here. In France, where a civil libertarian tradition is evidently not well-established and where there have been deep totalitarian strains among the intelligentsia for many years (collaborationism, the great influence of Leninism and its offshoots, the near-lunatic character of the new intellectual right, etc.), matters are apparently quite different.
...
When the “no holocaust” historians hold a large international meeting in the United States, as they did some months ago, there is nothing like the hysteria that we find in France over the Faurisson affair. When the American Nazi Party calls for a parade in the largely Jewish city of Skokie, Illinois — obviously, pure provocation — the American Civil Liberties Union defends their rights (though of course, the American Communist Party is infuriated)
...
Note first that even if Faurisson were to be a rabid anti-Semite and fanatic pro-Nazi — such charges have been presented to me in private correspondence that it would be improper to cite in detail here — this would have no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the defense of his civil rights. On the contrary, it would make it all the more imperative to defend them since, once again, it has been a truism for years, indeed centuries, that it is precisely in the case of horrendous ideas that the right of free expression must be most vigorously defended; it is easy enough to defend free expression for those who require no such defense.
https://chomsky.info/19801011/

>>13291892
It's not the level of the discourse that bothers you, it's the taboo. You could at least be honest

>>13291893
Chomsky is probably the last person you want to use to make your point (point I agree with, to be clear): the entire Faurisson controversy could have been avoided at any point had he actually read the petition he signed or apologized for having misinterpreted said petition, instead he lied openly and repeatedly and spent a lot of effort on petty personal attacks.
He could have just said "yeah, this guy is probably full of shit, but he should still be allowed to speak freely" and most of the objections would have never happened.

>>13290146
Ok I've always been a petersonfag but if this is true it's pure shit

>>13291934
Did he lie about not having read it? I thought he admitted he doesn't care. What difference would it make if he said "Faurisson is probably full of shit" or not?

>>13291841
high IQ post

>>13291901
lol cope

>>13291892
And that's why you're free not to consume it. But should your standard of "stimulation" be applied to everyone in society, to the point of preventing certain discussions, just because YOU don't find it useful or meaningful?

>>13290402
have sex bucko

>>13291798
>because there will be extreme scarcity
>NO corners available for open debate and expression
Same thing. You're wrong

>>13291802
You're also wrong. I'm glad youre comfortable and happy in the orthodoxy of correct opinions, but there are definitely truths that would be considered wrong-think. Side effect you get your delusional /pol/tards, but it's a worthwhile trade

>>13291944
>What difference would it make if he said "Faurisson is probably full of shit" or not?
It would be intellectually honest, a demonstration of strong commitment to his principles, and an easy way to force most of the opposition to engage with the actual point of freedom of speech rather than play motte-and-bailey with the accuracy of Faurisson's claims.

Chomsky lied with the whole "findings" bullshit, and that's because his ego is too inflated to allow even the slightest deviation from "I am right, you are wrong, fuck you": it got to the point that even some of his opponents (such as Pierre Vidal-Naquet) plainly stated that at that point the controversy wasn't moved by the holocaust angle nor by the freedom of speech angle.

In Vidal's words:
>The content of those lines leaves no doubt about Chomsky's motives. It is not a question of the gas chambers; it is very little a question of Faurisson, and only secondarily of freedom of speech. It is above all a question of Noam Chomsky.

>>13292040
>same thing. you're wrong
Elaborate, please. The internet has moved steadily in one direction: towards over-commercialization, stifling of open dialogue, censorship, gatekeeping, and deplatforming of dissenters.

>>13292011
>hurr don't mind me I'm just dumb

the STATE of poltards

>>13291515
>mfw reading the whole chain of reply
you got BTFO so hard, just close the thread and delete it from thread watcher, it's for the best

>>13292040
>but there are definitely truths that would be considered wrong-think.
yeah and the notion that different races can't or shouldn't live together is not one of them :)

>>13290202
The Jordan Question is out of question.

>>13292059
You're not making any sense. Articulate what point you're trying to make, please.

>>13292058
On the biggest social media sites, yes. The normiesphere is censored, that's the nature of the society you live in. But there is a plethora of independent sites that will serve every other niche.

The chans, gab, voat, mastodon, steeemit, etc. Even if there is a concerted effort to scrub the net of your wrongthink, the decentralized ones like Mastodon have enough staying power that you'll never have to pay 20$ a month (!!!) just to use a web forum

>>13289899
Isn't that what 4chan is?

>>13291558
>You can just fuck off.
>"Muh" what kind of loser faggot are you? Eat shit.
Absolutely seething. Way to prove that guy's point.

>>13292073
lol cope

>>13292144
memerson thinks anonymity is bad because you can choose to be as much of a dick as you want without social reprecussions

>complain about censorship in private corporate platforms
>don't call for the nationalization of the internet to subject it to free speech

the fuck?? why would you think another corporate product is going to be the solution? free speech applies to the government, not corporations

>>13292045
Yeah that's fair then, I have seen other instances of him being massively egotistical. Still I'm kind of reluctant to undermine the punch of his defending Faurisson because of how rare it is for someone of his position and caliber to take such a strong and correct stand. It's a really nice stark, clear example of someone who by all accounts should be induced or tempted into surrendering free speech, refusing to do so.

Finkelstein's another example, so is Raul Hilberg (also defended holocaust denial as protected speech).

>>13292171
free speech is an ideal any group can choose to adhere to.

>>13292161
NIGGA JUST TURN THE SCREEN OFF LIKE WALK AWAY LMAO

>>13292182
Out of the mouth of nogs, eh, anon?

>>13292196
no need to be racist

>>13292178
>free speech is an ideal any group can choose to adhere to.
not if it's not profitable. /pol/ is even less profitable than the SFW boards, why do you think they were split? what we should be demanding is public ownership and control of the internet.

>>13292175
I see your point, but for me this is a clear case of the most dangerous arguments of all being bad arguments for ideas you agree with.

>>13292116
HBO in the 90s
Netflix in the mid-2000s
FX recently
Whatever the fuck now.
It's a steady evolution in the wrong direction and people cling to it because it discourage intellectual pursuits and rewards apathetic consumption of media. The monetary aspect is basically irrelevant. It's the ability to have an open dialogue without curtailing your own thoughts, ideas, and beliefs for fear of being fired, deplatformed, or imprisoned.

>>13292157
Nice articulation.

>>13292270
get a brain, moran

>>13292283
haha very well memed my good sir! :D

>>13290402
>just like her whore daughter does
>her whore daughter
>her

Did he get a sex change or something?

>>13289899
Reminder that freedom of speech will never be the strong side of the internet because every schmock (including me) is allowed to write their mental diarrhea into every open comment section and every corporation/site should be allowed to censor the living shit out of that diarrhea.

The censoring should serve the purpose of reminding the userbase that they don't own the site and reduce the illusion that the site is a community and make people more aware that it's just an old fashioned capitalist milking scheme.

The comment section is the strongest part of any site. No one fucking reads the articles shared on Reddit or gives a shit about the videos on YouTube if they are not allowed to comment on it.

The largest sites are ego magnets.

Reminder that no one gives a crap about "serious" discussions, people only like the idea of it and they like to complain about it. It's similar to the people who like to complain about the situation in their country but aren't capable of coming up with a serious solution, so they just continue complaining and piling up reasons why the country is shit, fucking hell, I've been listening to it for more than 15 years, yeah I understand, it's shit.

But I don't blame them, it's all we have left. If you take away the "yelling at the cloud" from the old man then he's left with nothing. I wish I knew this earlier, I would be much more sensitive.

Also, the censoring in online discussions starts at the user. When you scroll through topics and posts you are more likely to respond to a post where you have the chance to win against the person and their stupid opinion instead of responding to a post where it's 50/50 or where you will get your ass handed to you, so you are not really engaging in a meaningful discussion when you are picking the threads yourself.

Go read Heine and don't let the charlatan pollute your soul.

>>13292914
>Also, the censoring in online discussions starts at the user. When you scroll through topics and posts you are more likely to respond to a post where you have the chance to win against the person and their stupid opinion instead of responding to a post where it's 50/50 or where you will get your ass handed to you, so you are not really engaging in a meaningful discussion when you are picking the threads yourself.
brainlet take, bro

>>13292914
*ahem*
can we get a janny in here to clean this shit up for free, please?

Someone make a j/applecider

It wasn't Mein Kampf like some of its critics say it is, but it was pretty annoying.

It reminded me a lot of those generic religious tracts the religious kids at my school used to hand out. The content was very similar in its proselytizing and naivete. A lot of preaching, some cultural shaming, and an obsession with not leaving your comfort zone.

>rights
>free
holy fuck humanity is so stupid. Fuck freedom, what is the worth of freedom when no tree will grow. freedom is a retardation of good, because good can not be defined anymore because the retards got set free.

>>13293659
>the retards got set free.

Such as you.

>>13292593
Nah, anon just forgot what he was raging about half way through.

>>13294046
HEEEEEEEEEELP.

>>13290033
Horseshoe theory but it was never-Trump conservatives and Hilldawg democrats all along.

>>13289899
Yes, it is him rambling about his kiddie pool cultural Christianity and how he wants men to "suck it up" and eat the neoliberal bullet without complaint so they can be "traditional heroes" but doesn't actually address or think about the cause of our social problems in the first place because he is fundamentally a coward.

>>13294089
SOMEDAY SAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>13290033
so did dick masterson what's your point?

I listened to it and thought it was pretty stupid. I don't know. Maybe I'm stupid. I was being hypercritical when i listened to it. I remember the style was very stilted. The introduction was called OVERTURE, and i thought, ah okay, so this will introduce a returning theme, but instead he just talked about his social media views. Some of the chapters were just common expression formulated in a more convoluted way like 'COMPARE YOURSELF TO WHO YOU WERE YESTERDAY, NOT TO WHO SOMEONE ELSE IS TODAY'. Might help some people, who knows.

>>13289899
P E T A C A T

>>13290150
I find it interesting that in a no holds barred competition leftism gets anally raped. It's almost like everyone, every culture, everywhere, hates Globalism. And the leftists themselves can't just leave the arguing honorably. They have to then attempt to get the whole venue/platform shut down

>>13292067
Agreed, as are genetic arguments for racism against black people, when the problem is largely cultural. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40255565

He will go to rogan, rubin, harris and everyone of those "intellectual dark web" dudes and they will promote it and it will just be their fanbases jerking each other off on how intellectual they are and how the left is just awful for not agreeing with them. So essentially /pol/ 2.0 for a couple of months and then it will die off.
This victim complex is especially sad when it comes from psychologists and neuroscientists who meditates and claims to be woke af

>>13291833
In today's age this is actually the true litmus test for free speech.

>>13295114
have you ever even been to pol? Go open it right now and compare it to Joe Rogan and Sam harris

He will spend little money on marketing in places like 4chan. Then he will go on joe rogan and some right leaning podcasts and fox. Then people like shapiro, rubin , molymeme, himself and other big right leaning influencers will get mad for all the evil lefty users who criticises them and their ban policy will be north korea level where you cant criticise the overlords because their rhetoric is just facts and logic and the truth while everyone elses is feelings and privilige and terrorism against western civilization

>>13290932
yeah guys like peterson are the only ones saying stupid shit and not 99% of the media you pathetic shill

>>13295165
none of this will happen and it sucks that the leftwing is so intellectually flabby that a total pseud like peterson can rattle you to this extent

>>13290916
>>13290932
You can already tell them they're retarded, you just won't get banned for it like they will when they say the same about you.

>>13295181
>Someone makes fun of your precious senpai
>"You so dumb you so mad"

>>13295176
that's what you get for live in a fascist capitalist hellhole.

>>13289899
His lectures are much more interesting.

>>13295266
>either you love my coddled sensibilities or you love peterson
No, I can just hold both of you in contempt.
>>13295329
>fasicst
lmfao

>>13295418
just wait

>>13289899
Just read Maps of Meaning.

>>13295329
>fascist capitalist
Lol

>>13291893
>“no holocaust” historians
>""""historians""""

I do agree with the rest of the post but this part triggered me

>>13295595
you have privatized prisons, the patriot act, cops can do whatever they want, (https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html)) regular nazi marches and people die because they can't afford medicine that costs 4 dollars everywhere else

>>13295595
Lefties are pretty authoritarian though I wouldn’t go so far as to compare them to people with values like fascists

>>13290529
The average person doesn't give two shits about overarching themes, classics or theories. Practical advice with anecdotal evidence is just what the public wants.

>>13295900
You're wrong. The very reason for the survival of such overarching stories (eg Bible) is because they're what the public wants. It's information of complex nature distilled into familiar forms. Memetics.

>>13295949
Well to produce actually lasting work then yes. Actually the non-cringy biblical comparisons really are the only thing this book has going for it. The problem is excactly the whole motivationao self help style, which you'd be surprised how empty that stuff can be and still be popular

>>13291118
Unironically go back. Yours is the kind of post that makes reddit so unbearable.

>>13291342
>deep web
Normalfaggot detected, it's just anything that isn't indexed, e.g. your mail box.

>>13290134
Which book?

>>13290136
MUH FREEZE PEECH LOL XDD

>>13296400
One hundred years together, which is so antisemitics /pol/ had to fabricate a false quote where the author bash the jews.

>>13295610
Not your safe space, but I'm not unkind so have a (You).

>>13292222
>inbred /pol/ nazi is able to install an ad blocker and use noscript captcha
>superior intelligentsia falls right into the merchant's nefarious schemes
Pottery.

>>13290980
What are jannies?

>>13291049
How does that work?

>>13290583
Then fuck the normies xD

>>13291065
are you kidding me? the debate ended with the two of them realising they had more in common with one another than not. they’ll be best friends by now.

>>13291741
>pol can fucking die for all I care
edgy

>>13296837
you can't upboat or downboat more than +5 or -5.

Mod points are randomly allocated to users.