/lit/ - Literature

>>13230048
/rec/ some and enlighten a pleb

>>13230048
their indoeuropean minds were not corrupted by being in contact with jews and their offspring (christians and muslimes)

>>13230068
Upanishads

>only the indians
this is why i hate you impressionable plebs

>>13230068
>>13230070
Brahma Sutras if you want to read them in a orderly and systematic way.

is there a discord server or any other place to engage in discussion on hinduism and traditionalism in general more properly?

two questions:
1st, on a serious note. how do the young male and female people of india relate to their spirituality in general? do we see any significant break from traditions or do they continue as before? is there much evolution in terms of understanding how philosophy relates to faith practices and deity worship for instance?

secondly, can i get some critcism of the notion that ancient indian philosophy is so based cos buds is from there?

>>13230498
Majority of people are casuals or more concerned with making a living.

A few people take it more seriously as was always the case.

A thousand years?
Woah!
How impressive.

>develops a concise system of monism centuries before some crypto-buddhist bobble head

>>13230681
>>13230689
>b-but my shit was from the upanishads! its older than you stinking gayreeks!

>>13230177
How does it feel that more indians know who this is than the 'great' adi shankara?

>>13230722
I'M A DOCTOR

>>13230707
Let me play to thee a song of Phane!

>>13230069
>indoeuropean
nuh the european has no aptitude for this kind of thought

>>13230759
Brainlet shitskin detected lol

>>13230740
>Of the First-born king, the neverending One; and upon him all the immortals grew, blessed gods and goddesses and rivers and lovely springs and everything else that had then been born; and he himself became the sole One.

>>13230769
that's the problem though
indochina makes more sense than indoeurope ever will

>>13230788
ahh yes, the famous indochinese philosophers Ho Chi Minh and Nguyen Nguyen

Bump

>>13230048
>Is discovered by an Absolute Ideal 3000 years before dindus even existed

>>13230048
>able to express it with complete ease, and much more clearly.
that's where i have to disagree with you, though I agree they were discussing it much earlier (but then again, the greek, syrian, bablyonian, egyptian mystics were all talking about it too in their own ways).
I find a lot of the eastern method of conveying the ideas of idealism to be VERY obscure and deliberately "coded". Very rarely will you find someone that just says in plain speech what they're talking about.
By doing it their way, it essentially requires a teacher to decode it for you, thereby ensuring job security.
I prefer the western teachers (and even then, not all of them, but still not as bad as the eastern philosophers) for clarity.

>>13232441
He didn't discover shit. He got discovered. Also there is a clear lack of metaphysics in the entire Old Testament.

Philosophy only seems to develop in polytheist societies. The only time Christians appeared to be doing it is when they essentially just copypasted Greek philosophy.

>>13232514
>He didn't discover shit. He got discovered.
Read my post again, hotstuff.
> there is a clear lack of metaphysics in the entire Old Testament
>Philosophy only seems to develop in polytheist societies
>Christians essentially just copypasted Greek philosophy
Wow. How old are you?

>>13232526
>Wow. How old are you?
Older than you, sissyboy.

>>13232514
this guy seems to think that the Bible was meant to teach philosophy to beginners, and apparently hasn't read anything about comparative religions (like Joseph Campbell for example)

>>13232562
>comparative religion

>>13232572
what point are you even trying to make?

the argument that >>13232514 makes,
>there is a clear lack of metaphysics int eh entire Old Testament
is false. Metaphysics permeates it, but it's a question already assumed to be true, and therefore not discussed.
However, the time period in which the Old Testament was written was ablaze with metaphysical discourse, which you would know if you'd read anything by Joseph Campbell or someone similar to him.

btw, posting pics of yourself can get you banned on here. fair warning.

>>13232551
You must be really gansgta on the streets.

>>13232590
I'm not a fan of Campbell, but you're right.
The Bible in its composition from all the different books is more of a philosophical cleansing of too much meaningless metaphysics that prevailed the original texts (not to say they were edited out, but certain books ommited in favor of "wiser" literature) and that way the old versions hid the higher meaning that the Bible composition made clear. Something that hinduism and budhism go out of their way to hide and code.

>>13230068
>/rec/ some and enlighten a pleb
https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html
>>13230177
Not that I'm aware of, although I might end up making one sometime soon and posting it on /lit/
>>13230681
The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad lays out a comprehensive explanation of non-dualism/monism and dates to at least the 9th-8th century BC, predating virtually all Greek philosophy including every single pre-socratic.
>>13230689
Plotinus is based but Shankara's writings are much more lucid and logical. Also, Shankara is not a crypto-Buddhist it's the other way around, Buddhism at its inception was crypto Upanishadic teachings, there is very little noteworthy material in the Nikayas that isn't a repeat or a modification of stuff already existing in the pre-Buddhist Upanishads.
>>13230759
That's wrong, the Platonic tradition aligns very closely with mainstream Hindu thought viz Vedanta etc.
>>13232461
If you want clear explanations read the various commentaries such as those of Shankara, Ramanuja, Abhinavagupta etc, they consist of long passages of prose explaining their ideas in an unambiguous and logical manner. Shankara's commentaries in particular mention just about every single hypothetical objection or counter-argument to his ideas from all the other schools of thought and then these are refuted in turn to show how his teachings are consistent and logical.
>>13232441
The metaphysical content of the OT is largely predicated on obscure symbolism that could easily be read a bunch of different ways or interpreted in a non-metaphysical literal manner, and in any case it pales in comparison to many eastern texts and doesn't predate them anyway. Most of Judaism's doctrines comes from Zoroastrianism in fact after the Persians freed them from enslavement in Babylon and then ruled them as subjects for something like 3 centuries, the OT only dates from the ~6th century BC, there are much older metaphysical Hindu texts. All the research generally indicates that pre-Babylonian captivity the Jews were just one of many primitive semite tribes of the region with their own special tribal cult

>>13232877
>although I might end up making one sometime soon and posting it on /lit/.
please anon, make it

>>13232637
in da sheets too my nigga

Idealism, as with any wholly western philosophy, falsely posits a dualism of "mind" and "matter" wherein "matter", by its Cartesian definition, is defined as "extension." Matter in the traditional sense is not extension not has any quantitative aspect, and therefor, to claim that Hinduism is idealism is completely wrong. Hinduism does not simply say that matter is an illusion, but rather shows that Brahma is equivalent to reality and matter is simply a manifestation thereof in a particularized fashion, subject to space, time, etc. There is no question of temporal superiority or inferiority barring solely the inherent metaphysical hierarchy.

>>13233952
so, platonism?? more or less

>>13232877
>Brihadaranyaka Upanishad
pic related is from this book

https://books.google.com/books/about/Encyclopedia_of_Hinduism.html?id=OgMmceadQ3gC

says its 700bc, that's within pre-Socratic realm

>>13232514
>Also there is a clear lack of metaphysics in the entire Old Testament.
What is Kabbalah?

>>13232877
>Plotinus is based but Shankara's writings are much more lucid and logical.
People forget that Plotinus was writing within a tradition and wasn't necessary to present his philosophy systematically, unlike shankara who was attempting to reinvigorating a older one and to combat 'heterodoxies'. If you want Neoplatonism presented in a more logical manner I suggest reading Proclus.

>>13234031
700 BC is near the lower end of the estimates, but it has also been estimated to be from as far back as 800 and 900 BC.
>The exact year, and even the century of the Upanishad composition is unknown. Scholars have offered different estimates ranging from 900 BCE to 600 BCE, all preceding Buddhism. Brihadaranyaka is one of the oldest Upanishads, along with that of Jaiminiya Upanishad and Chandogya Upanishads.[13][14]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadaranyaka_Upanishad

>inb4 wikipedia
The references in the article are to academic works by respected scholars. There is also the fact that the early Upanishads are generally thought to have been assembled from older material predating whenever they were put togather in 900-700 BC, and also that the Upanishads did not spring up out of nowhere but are elaborations on ideas contained in the earlier Vedas. The pre-Upanishad portions of the Vedas contain all sorts of lines implying monism and non-dualism like the ones about "the solar Self of all that is motion or at rest" and the ones about the Gods being inside the intellect and about them being established in every birth. The Brihadaranyaka in its first or second chapter quotes a much earlier line from the original mantras of the Rig-Veda in the context of a discussion about rebirth "I was Manu and the Sun", spoken in the past tense to imply past lives. So, yes it's true that the under the later range of estimates the date of composition there is overlap with the very first pre-socratics, but since it stems from earlier material and since those ideas predate the final composition of the text, it's fair to say the Indians were probably thinking about this stuff before the earliest Greeks were as far as we can tell, not that I care though! It really doesn't matter in the end haha.

>>13232572
Is there a problem with that?

>>13234052
Kabbalah is an intellectual tradition of interpretaing the OT and related material, however the actual Kabbalistic texts like the Zohar emerged way later and there is very little apparent metaphysical content of any profundity in the OT anyways, it just doesn't compare to the Upanishads, Tao Te Ching, early Greek metaphysics etc regardless of however much later Kabbalists attempted to read into it

bump

>>13233952
>matter is simply a manifestation thereof in a particularized fashion

What is the best argument for this?

>>13234748
>the solar Self of all that is motion or at rest"

Where is this?

>>13236092
Rig-Veda I.115.1

Coomaraswamy translates it as solar Self, I think Griffiths translates the line as solar Soul but I don't exactly remember, the import is the same either way

the most based ancient Indian school is still Carvaka

>>13236684
cringe and bluepilled

>>13230048
>claims to be a disciple of indian phil
>still cares about who did it first or who did it last

Worth reading the abridged Mahabharata (Smith Penguin edition) and reading a good edition of The Bhagavad Gita at the right time?

>>13237498
yes

Plotinus is THE Doctor of the Church. The fact that he is more Christian than Augustine goes without saying, and isn't a tall order regardless, but the fact that he achieves a "second pressing" and, moreover, a reified one without degradation, infantilization, the perversion of "common sense", etc. is remarkable.

>>13237817
>dude just ignore that the non-dualism of Plotinus fundamentally conflicts with the duality between God and man in Christianity, that many influential Christian thinkers critiqued Neoplatonism for that very reason among others, that historically Neoplatonists were persecuted as heretics and even executed by the Christian authorities especially in Byzantium, that most church denominations and their teachings hardly resemble Neoplatonism anymore, and that Plotinus was fully aware of Christianity and had many opportunities to praise it or align himself with it but he chose not to; lmao!

>>13238102
>the duality between God and man in Christianity
>in Christianity
>Christianity
>CHRISTianity

>>13230048
gypsies are Indians that had an exodus shortly after the arrival of Islam similar to how the Parsees had an exodus from Persia after it fell to Islam.

>>13230068
indians are veddoids a subspecies of australoids (aboriginals)

Interesting fact is that indians, pakis and bangladeshis are veddoid abbo. So abbo shit are going strong thanks south asians to them.

>>13230069
indians are of australoid-veddoid race. they're absolutely subhuman

>>13230070
thousands year ago maybe
white r1a male has a kid with Dravidian woman

his kid will still have r1a but he wont be white anymore

>>13230076
your bronze age ancestors got raped by a bunch of steppe Europids who imposed their language and culture, but being a small elite they didn't leave much genetically speaking
you are just sandniggers

>>13230113
Because ive seen how gypsies live in Serbia and Ive seen how indians act here in Australia. They act the same and even look the same most of the time. To see indians brag about how they are racial cousins to Europeaners makes me cringe when we are nothing alike.

>>13230177
No such thing even exist, racial mixes in India are vastly different than the ones in Europe. You are native australoids mixed with Iranians. In other words Indians have little to no European genes but modern Europeans and Indians both have Iranian genes that's why we have some genetic affinity.

Prehistoric mesolithic europeans before race mixing with immigrants from other continents had zero genetic affinity with either Indians or Iranians. Do you understand now?

>>13230498
The majority of modern Indians have adopted either Dravid (Elamite) or Hindi (Aryan) languages that replaced their ancestral Australoid (Veddoid) languages.

>>13230659
>mfw Indians can't deal with the fact that they are the rapebabies of Slavs and abbo women.

>>13230681
so much for the >muh genetic distance of Srinivasamulungaba PhD extraordinaire

>>13230689
if you want to educate yourself futher on this topic, you invited to attend anthropological lectures here at TAU, with adjunct professors from Harvard and Oxford

>>13230707
white invaders were the ruling class, they went extinct and now all of india is just one big abo poo

>>13230722
>we wuz aryanz n shyt

b-but anon thats a myth. Aryans mixed with a few abo sluts and then disappeared into the pooey abyss known as australoid india. aryan rape of abos is insiginificant.

indos are more mixed with mongols and arabs

>>13230725
>indians
>caucasoid

all indians are veddoid with superficial caucasoid features from elamites and arabs

just like somalis are negroid with superficial caucasoid features from arabs and elamites

>>13230740
>unreduced aurochsenoid talking out of his ass

there are no remnants of Proto-Indo-Europeans cultures in India, only of Indo-Europeans because they were themselves just one of many immigrating waves

>>13230759
these Iranian Caucasoids were brown Elamites and unrelated to Aryans who came later. the Aryans were insignificant to the Australoid-Elamite composition of Indians.

the few and rare Caucasoid looking Indians are derived from Elamite and Arab Caucasoids and are similar to the Australian Abos mixed with Europeans or Ethiopians mixed with Arabs

>>13230769
this. let us ignore the historical facts and bow down to our mongol overlords!

>>13230780
India shares Australoid roots with Aboriginals and Papuans. Aboriginal art, life and strategy were heavily influenced by early Indian migrants. When India falls, we all stampede to United States and Europe, to inherit the great Indoeuropean tradition and wealth. Of course, China will pass the United States, but China is far from allowing us in. It is possible that India will establish Europe and Persia as protectorates.

>>13230788
The Indian/European "master race" already exists, it's called gypsies.

>>13231250
the Onge are just one of many Australoid groups
the Onge also exclusively belong to the M clade, bearing the M2 and M4 subclades.

>>13232413
Armanians are CHG+Iran Neolithic+Natufian. They barelly have any Euroepan genes.
They also have small australoid admixture.

>>13232441
Because ive seen how gypsies live in Serbia and Ive seen how indians act here in Australia. They act the same and even look the same most of the time. To see indians brag about how they are racial cousins to Europeaners makes me cringe when we are nothing alike.

>>13232461
so much for the >muh genetic distance of Srinivasamulungaba PhD extraordinaire

>>13232514
The only reason we are able to talk about Proto-Indo-European, is because we have fully complete remainders of the culture left in the Avestan religion

>>13232526
the harappan civ was built by elamites/zagros dudes who come from western asia. the abos native to india adopted their language, prior to adopting sanskrit from their much later aryan overlords. the original language of india is actually australian aboriginal.

>>13232551
>>>/pol/121248807

>>13232562
thats pushing the boundaries beyond the extreme
if that is the case then the following are also caucasoids:
abos, papuans, american indians, mestizos, ethiopians, ainu, african americans

>>13232572
gypsies are Indians that had an exodus shortly after the arrival of Islam similar to how the Parsees had an exodus from Persia after it fell to Islam.

>>13232590
indians are veddoids a subspecies of australoids (aboriginals)

Interesting fact is that indians, pakis and bangladeshis are veddoid abbo. So abbo shit are going strong thanks south asians to them.

>>13232637
gypos are upper caste brahmin

The populations showing closest relatedness to Roma/Gypsies were Brahmins.[26]

>>13232649
Abos are indians that moved to australia.

>>13238140
>>13238127
holy shit go back to /his/ where you belong you autist

>>13232877
ASI is codeword for australoid abo. ANI is codeword for mestizo australoids.

>>13233125
PIE had like 50% WHG. Modern indians have 0-10% WHG.
indians are a australoid-elamite-mongoloid poofest

>>13233911
I literally have no clue why people think North Indians are better than South Indians. People act like they're different species even though they're from the same country. North Indians have the same medium brown complexion and abo features, the "white" ones who look arab are rare. Furthermore, south India beats north India in: HDI, gender equality, ancient civilizations, GDP per capita, jobs, cleanliness, etc.

>>13233952
no you are confusing Brown Elamites who mixed with Australoids, with fabled Aryans who came much later and had much less influence in mixing with poos

>>13233985
I honestly was going to give you a chance and read what you had to say but by using terms such as Arab/African etc just gave it away that you have no clue when it comes to anthropology. I'm certain that you are the kind of retard that confuses ancient populations with present day populations too.

>>13234031
Remember when Genghis Khan was stopped dead in his tracks by an Islamic debate team? Me neither.

>>13234052
indians are australoid and should be proud of their veddoid heritage

they do speak a non-australoid language and practice a non-australoid culture, thru cultural and linguistic diffusion of steppe horseman

much like native americans speak a IE language and practice IE culture, ie: costa ricans speaking spanish etc

>>13234513
indians are of australoid-veddoid race. they're absolutely subhuman

>>13234748
>implying the northern poos arent gypsie abos larping as whites

>>13234792
Having been to India, northern & southern Indians bear a striking resemblance to Australian aboriginals and other aboriginal groups throughout south and southeast Asia, including Brahmins

>>13235054
Because they're sub Saharan.

appropriate 'White' enough to be especially bitter at the fact they aren't White.

Black enough to hate themselves and project their bitterness onto others and push their KANGZ INDIA SUPERPOWER IN 5 YEARS bullshit to massage their pooinloo egos.

>>13235750
they are cousins of Aboriginals mixed with pakis.

Aboriginals aren't that clever
https://youtu.be/Nt0NcaxmGHo

>>13236087
the original (pre-PIE, pre-Elamite) Australoid language of India still exists including the Kol and Munda (Mundari).

the Elamites of Persia and PIE of Caucasus shitted up the poos

>>13236092
thousands year ago maybe
white r1a male has a kid with Dravidian woman

his kid will still have r1a but he wont be white anymore

>>13236659
all Indians are Veddoid. Some Persians, Arabs, Mongols did settle in the north, but were largely absorbed and dissolved into the Veddoid core of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh.

>>13236684
No such thing even exist, racial mixes in India are vastly different than the ones in Europe. You are native australoids mixed with Iranians. In other words Indians have little to no European genes but modern Europeans and Indians both have Iranian genes that's why we have some genetic affinity.

Prehistoric mesolithic europeans before race mixing with immigrants from other continents had zero genetic affinity with either Indians or Iranians. Do you understand now?

>>13237088
The majority of modern Indians have adopted either Dravid (Elamite) or Hindi (Aryan) languages that replaced their ancestral Australoid (Veddoid) languages.

>>13237458
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veddoid

The Australoids are a race of people with wavy hair, spread over the whole of India, Burma and the islands of Southeast Asia. Their existence in the "Indus Valley Civilization" has been suggested. They are said by some to "form the bedrock of the people." They cultivated rice and vegetables, and made sugar from sugarcane. Their Australoid language has survived in many Indian tribes, including the Kol and Munda (Mundari) in Eastern and Central India.

>>13237498
Well they’re related to Abos who also have pretty recessive genes.

>>13237785
Interesting is te fact that aurignacians/gravettians seems to have evolved from Indian australoids as they show papuan and ASI australoid components.

>>13237817
No it doesn't. These terms are meaningless in the stupid way you using them.
There is no such thing as reduced cro magnoid.

South asian contains middle easterners of mosly neolithic iranian extraction(australoid+paleosiberian ANE similar to amerindians) mixed with a few types of australoids and mongoloids., with a very slight meseuropean admixture.

>>13238102
Sanskrit is considered the erectus of all languages. Sanskrit is the best ever language to program computers and monkeys. Sanskrit has been found written in almost all ever found ancient relics , tablets in india and europe and asia. india is the land of brahmin originals

>>13238119
No such thing even exist, racial mixes in India are vastly different than the ones in Europe. You are native australoids mixed with Iranians. In other words Indians have little to no European genes but modern Europeans and Indians both have Iranian genes that's why we have some genetic affinity.

Prehistoric mesolithic europeans before race mixing with immigrants from other continents had zero genetic affinity with either Indians or Iranians. Do you understand now?

>>13234748
>inb4 Wikipedia
that's where I got that book from, downloaded a .pdf copy took like 30 seconds, screenshotted the page it alleged the source was on and that's the picture of it
I don't know hindu stuff so wasn't gonna claim anything of my own, just citing a source

>>13232461
honestly, this.

If you pull your ass to your dick long enough you could technically be able to connect, idk, Daoisim with fcking Black hole formation.

You can LITERALLY make anything out of eastern texts cause they are just made that way. They seem like they say a lot but in reality are just nonsense. The reason they get popular is because people want to make a business out of it. Religious teachers in India are one of the most influental (and richest) people out there. The entirety of eastern philosophy relies on practices that require teachers (Yoga, Herbs, Rituals).

>>13230048
when is he going to die lads?

>>13238694
brainlet

>>13238194
>The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the Vedda) form a distinct group and are not related to the "Australoid" group.[12]

>>13238178
>>13233985
???
you're obsessed, that was my only post in this thread. could you answer??