/lit/ - Literature

>>13199472
John 16:5

>>13200609
5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

Wow, that has given me a lot to think about

After I started studying Ancient Greek and reading the New Testament, my appreciation for Christianity went through the roof. Since the vocabulary and grammar is pretty simple, it's actually not that hard to get started on reading the Bible in the original. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for an interesting hobby or a deeper interest in the religion itself.

The Athenaze series of textbooks is excellent once you get a bit of a foothold in the language (which you can do without any other outside texts beyond Athenaze). From there, you can start to look into the New Testament as long as you use a dictionary and are willing to take detours into studying grammar in more depth as necessary.

>>13200665
NO. I FUCKING HATE ANCIENT GREEK. YOU CANT ME ME LEARN THIS GOD DAMNED SHIT. I CAN STILL INTO THEOLOGY WITHOUT IT. HERES A NO BRAINER FOR YOU..... LEARN SOME FUCKING GOD DAMN LATIN. YOUR APPRECIATION WILL BE BETTER BECAUSE ITS A BETTER LANGUAGE PERIOD. END OF STORY. FUCK THE LEARNING OF GREEK.

>>13199472
All of Romans 9. Speaks of predestination and Providence, cruel fate, and God as trickster/tester.

https://www.esv.org/Romans+9/

>What shall we say then? wIs there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

>he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

>You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For zwho can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, ato answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

>Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience evessels of wrath fprepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy

>What shall we say, then? sThat Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, ta righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel uwho pursued a law that would lead to righteousness4 vdid not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the wstumbling stone

>>13200851
>I CAN STILL INTO THEOLOGY WITHOUT IT.
No.

Religious people are so insecure.

>>13200883
Fucking based. I've defended the Calvinistic Interpretation of this chapter for a while on discord. There is yet to be a good alternative Interpretation and the more you read into it the more you realise that it's actually talking about God's active hardening. Not able nations or covenants but about God's active play in the world and salvation. Here's another verse I think you might like:
>27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
Acts 4:27-28

How do you guys cope that the new testament was passed down orally for many decades and then written in a different language?

Essentially the spirit of god went through the men who wrote it down? or do you guys have better reasoning to fully trust the words within the bible?

>>13201029
Thanks for the reference, anon. As a good Catholic, I'm honestly a bit flustered by this passage. We tend to call these difficult scriptural truths mysteries and not think about them too hard. I'm not familiar with Protestant theology at all, but willing to believe that 300 years ago they might have had something interesting to say. Not anymore, it's all feel good bullshit today.

Do you have any works to recommend that summarize the Calvinist view? Because it seems to me this passage in particular has been swept under the rug in the Church as just "yeah God does thing you don't know about and wouldn't expect."

>>13201051
>Essentially the spirit of god went through the men who wrote it down
Yes. Exactly.

Ask yourself: if you don't trust God to work through man, why are you believing any of this to begin with? The theology of the New Testament is so elegant and self-evident given its predecessors both Hellenic and Semitic it's hard to call any of it wrong especially if you have faith.

>>13201054
Calvin wrote down everything in one book essentially: Institutes of the Christian Religion

>>13201077
Thanks anon. I think. This is going to upset me for a while. Trying to reconcile God portrayed in scripture as just another trickster-tester deity.

>>13201066
I understand, but its sometimes hard for me to have faith. I believe God created us with the power of reason so we could rationally believe in him and not blindly follow a false one

Would you give the same answer to why the Council of Nicaea, Chose not to include passages within the bible who were written by people who actually knew Jesus, such as his brother

>>13201116
I assume you mean Thomas? I'm not well acquainted with this side of things. I can't say. I'm not an archaeologist or a linguist or scholar. I imagine that Nicaea, like the Reformation, may have been imperfect. But ultimately it is God's will, and untold good has resulted from settling on one creed and one theology. Again, it's a matter of faith. If tomorrow a scholar should reveal an exegesis of scripture that somehow makes the gospel of Thomas and gnostic texts an incontrovertible coherent part of sciprture I'd say it was God's will.

>>13201054
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/calvin/cc38/cc38012.htm

This is Calvin on Romans 9, though his view was not unique to him. Many of the Reformers, including Luther, held the same view on predestination and salvation.

If you want books on Calvinism at large, R C Sproul has written tons of books on it for a popular audience. You could also read the Westminster Confession and if you really want to dig deep, read Calvin's Institutes and this book on Luther's Heidelberg Disputation:

https://www.amazon.com/Being-Theologian-Cross-Reflections-Disputation/dp/B000FQ7B3S

>>13201185
Adding it to the list. Thanks mate. I'm thinking somewhere in here is the key to reunification, and it needs to be a new movement itself. A living idea represented by a new order of Christian priests who must reclaim the Church.

>>13201116
do you have a source on that Nicaea claim? Nicaea I had nothing to do with the canon and while I'm not very familiar with Nicaea II, I know it wasn't until the 8th century which is well after the canon was decided upon.

>>13199472
Can someone explain to me the importance of love? Is it one of the mysteries?

>>13201258
Here's a secret: love is the only thing you can want and give and receive freely for itself. Not for what it can do for you.

Go back to the Greeks and read about philia and especially agape.

It's not a mystery. It is the foundation of Jesus' ministry and the Greatest Commandment. Look it up. Forgive. You may develop your ability to love and forgive others by exercising the Theological Virtues: faith, hope, and charity. In this way you may merit sanctifying grace and surely turn your face to the beatific vision.

>>13201278
When is love ever selfless? For love to be selfless, it must be blind, since it is love that benefits us the most.

>>13200883
Based and breadpilled

>>13201282
>When is love ever selfless?
Pic related. It is the most beautiful thing in the world.

What was the message of the book of Job? Just to trust God even if we don't understand him?

>>13201296
Pretty much. With a dash or two of: "who the FUCK are you to strive with God?"

You have a fate. God willed it. Have faith it was for the good.

Before people start posting torture victims: yes. Even them.

>>13201296
That Christians are cuck bitches who will blindly obey their bull

>>13201296
God spoke a lot about nature and non-human affairs in His response. So it has something to do with that

>>13201296
It's not so much that we don't understand who God is, but why he does certain things and not others. And I'll disagree with >>13201306. It's not "I'm God, how dare you question me?!", it's "you're human, how can I give you all the answers you're looking for?"

>>13201340
>"I'm God, how dare you question me?!"
It kind of is though. Subtext.

Regardless I will refuse to disagree with you. Yours is the subtler and more correct interpretation.
>"you're human, how can I give you all the answers you're looking for?"
That is the lesson, properly expressed. I was being careless.

>>13201354

This. I agree that >>13201340 articulates it more thoroughly but the overall sentiment is consistent. Through faith & humility we submit and attain peace, not through doubts and criticisms. It's quite difficult at times to quiet the rational mind when tackling faith, but once the mind has settled and the heart can take full understand, the experience of the Lord is incredibly beautiful. And even when the mind is wrestling the heart still knows and it's beautiful. I feel like a lot of people don't take into account the fact that it's the heart which comprehends God's Reality, not the mind. The mind is for meditation but the heart understands. Thats what I think at least.

>>13201051
>>>/lit/thread/S13085081#p13085268
>I realize the problem but, as a Christian, I maintain that Phenomena are Divinely arranged not only Ontologically, that I might take a step and not fall through the Earth, but Epistemologically as well, that I might see and know the truth in the world immanently, not just by inference. It's ironic that Catholics should think like this most of all, but actually do so least of all.

>>13201296
>>13201306
>>13201321
>>13201340

The story itself is ironic in that the principle of Job being innocent is completely absurd, and people taking it as dogma are themselves exemplary of Job's perverse "innocence". It is implied that God could have destroyed everyone and everything around him, and Job would have thought nothing of it. Worse still, that he only thought about it once he became afflicted, was utterly unrepentant in his ignorance, but still self-aggrandized in both refusing to admit fault and refusing to consider that, if he is indeed innocent, anyone and everyone that God likewise tormented could have been innocent as well, making him the disciple of a monster. So many mutually aggravating offenses that they indeed make lesser Mosaic sin redundant and Job formally innocent thereof. God's non-reply being not only perfectly adequate in mirroring Job's casual monstrosity, but quite merciful as well in letting Job carry on as usual.

>>13199472
>/lit/ the most intelligent
In case any anons were wondering why there's so many newfags shitting up the place recently, someone apparently posted the infographic placing /lit/ on top of an iq-per-board graph.

OP is a prime example of a newfag shitting up the place.

None of you are actually religious. I admire what you are trying to do, which is fight back against materialist hedonism (which will destroy us) and encourage spiritualist thinking, but you all know it’s not real at the core.

>>13202438

You're projecting anon. Yes there's a lot of LARPers on this site but when the reality of God is made apparent to you, you can't shake it off. Trust me, when He strengthened my Faith my mind did EVERYTHING to fight against it. Our rational mind naturally disinclines from it and has its doubts and skepticisms so it's easy to get the idea "oh everyone is just faking it" if you haven't experienced it yourself. But thats the thing, God is understood / felt in the heart. A comforting phrase I was once told on the matter is "the heart's wisdom is miles ahead of the mind", in regards to comprehending religion. I tell people, don't ever become religious unless you have experienced the Divine, otherwise, you are going off of belief rather than Faith. Faith, to me, is the state of awareness of God's presence, and the trust in His Plan. Belief is simply the idea that "there is a God". So again, yes there are LARPers, yes there are people who believe and don't feel it, but, the Truth of religion is understood by experience and nothing else. Don't limit yourself with cynicism / skepticism, trust me. Years ago, I never saw what happened to be occuring, I genuinely never thought I'd find myself attempting to submit to God's Will, but here I am telling random people on 4chan about it haha. Don't just listen to philosophers and skeptics man, the whole of life is not to be understood by reason alone. When the heart knows Truth, it just knows, I can't explain it, there's no process, its just an understanding. Sorry if this was long winded and I still just seem like some LARPer to you, it's early and for whatever reason I felt compelled to respond this to you, and hopefully other skeptics will see this and reconsider as well. And oh, faith is a journey, even when your heart knows you will consistently doubt yourself and think it's bs, but ironically, contrary to your comment, deep down you know its true, and your mind just tries to fight it.

>>13202485
take your meds schizo

Been going to sleep listening to Ecclesiastes for days now. Comfy ascended dreams indeed.