/lit/ - Literature

>>13197308
Islam is the truth

Yeah, sure, God said stone adulteresses and be warriors in His Name, then suddenly says, "Wow, judgy, much? Just live and let live."

Truly Jesus was the Messiah, but he was very different from Paul's cuck fantasies.

>>13197308
Christianity is cringeworthy; it's for soiboys. Islam is based and redpilled.

Is it not QUITE, VERY even, remarkable that whenever I tell Butterfly to do something sexual or masturbate or whatever, she doesn’t get pissed off at me, she just signs off? I mean, let’s face it, she hasn’t stopped coming on here.

She comes on here more and more and even as she is saying ‘no no no’ she is responding to me more and more and more often.

She probably doesn’t even notice how centric I am in her life these days. She owns a collar with my name on it, and while-heartedly believes she is my property, and takes pride in that fact. :3

Good for you Butterfly. Good for you.

>>13197334
>>13197325
>>13197320
this, fuck christcucks

>>13197308
>And that Christians will become matter upon death; the same matter used to make a new universe? And that sinners will be decaying matter until the point that god comes back (second death)?
w-what?

EjckdnrngncnnsennffffffuuuuuuuuHhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>13197336
HOLY based

>>13197351
Death of the universe. Matter will eventually all decay and die. Christians will be turned into matter that god uses to create a new universe, removed from this one before it decays. Pagans will be allowed to decay and be destroyed forever. The new universe will exist on a different plain.

Determinism is truth. This is why god loves all, and why we shall not judge. Repent.

>>13197385
Holy motherfucking based

Why are there so many religious threads on this board? I thought it was for literature not extremely productive theological discussion.

>>13197412
What’s the most read book of all time

>>13197412
It's summer
so we get a bunch of edgy /pol/tard teens going through their catholic phase
they think their on a crusade so they spam the board with threads like this, or tirades against various minorities

>>13197334
>>13197325
>>13197320
I'm not giving any (You)s to y...
Damn.

>>13197420
The Qur'an if you mean entirely read and not just perused.

>>13197463
>moving goalposts
yikes!

>>13197320
>>13197325
>>13197334
>>13197347
>>13197463
Instead of just saying Islam is better, you should point towards resources (aside the Qur'an) if you want to have a genuine dialogue. Islam fundamentally denies the crucifixion, which is the crux for the entire Christian faith (1 Corin 15:14), yet I haven't been pointed towards any Islamic works which delicately address this clash in theology.

>>13197308
Jesus Christ was a retard

>>13197961
omg based and redpilled. every christ cuck is cringe blue pilled nerd lol

>>13197959
Not them but the issue is very close to the one we have about intercession. Whether Christ was crucified or not, resurrected or not, is a matter of faith. Whether his death will save all others or not is similar to Sufi conceptions of their sheikh and even Muhammad himself - some say his pains and struggles on earth are stand in for ours. I find this comic when the same people pretend they are better than Christians. On the other hand, there is a nuanced view to be developed wrt intercession that is not as Christian.

>>13197989
So what you are saying is some within the Islamic community develop a sense of Messiah complex that they associate with their Sheikh/Muhammad? While interesting, as a Catholic the immediate concern when studying Islam is this said rejection of what our entire faith depends on (the Crucifixion) and as I've stated previously I have had lackluster luck in this study. Thank you for the civil response.

>>13198034
Yes that is what I'm saying. I think sufism is at large is under a lot of Christian influences, but in any case one might say such tendencies honouring their leaders are a natural course of cults.

I don't know how it could not reject what you find as a matter for concern. In Islam, at least supposedly, you are judged for your own sins. God looks for excuses to be merciful, but does not need a sacrifice. What I like about Islam is that it has moved a little further from the anthropomorphism of the biblical God but definitely not enough.

>>13197412
>>13197421
Even as a Christian I'm exhausted of these threads. Keep it to the Catholicism general.

>>13197959
1. Requiring someone else to pay a debt is not forgiving a debt, this is a serious problem with the crucifixion.

2. Jesus never said to stop obeying the law, in fact he said the opposite (Matthew 5:19). Paul seems to have innovated disobeying the law to appeal to Greeks, with his close associate Luke framing it as a dream come to Peter in Acts. If Jesus intended this he would have said it.

3. Jesus asked to be saved by God when the people he was sent to deliver God's message to wanted to brutally torture him to death. God abandoning him here would be like abandoning Moses to be brutally tortured to death by Pharaoh while Moses asked God to please save him. Also the idea that Pilate would pardon Yeshua Barabbas, a Jewish nationalist who killed Roman soldiers, is nonsensical. Pilate would beat Barabbas severely and pass him off as Jesus, which is consistent with the Qur'an saying the Jews were unsure if it was Jesus being crucified.

4. The Son = God is an equivilance relation, meaning it must adhere to term logic. However the Triniry violates term logic, which in this case would make it by definition a falsehood.

5. It is clear that Jesus rescuing the woman being stoned is an interpolation. It also is ridiculously framed, Jews did not stone adultresses because they were judgemental bigots, but because God said to. If sinners could not punish criminals, then there could be no punishment, but punishment is advocated by Romans 13.

>>13197989
Muslims believe Jesus, peace be upon him, is the Messiah and the Word of God, and that he (not Muhammad, peace be upon him) will return in the end times to lead Muslims. Muhammed, peqce upon him, is believed to be the comforter, the spirit of truth Christ predicted, he is the seal of the prophets of Islam. Islam is believed to be the religion of Abel, Noah and Abraham (who obviously were not Jews). Moses was a prophet of this universal religion, as was Jesus. Moses was sent to the Egyptians, who rejected him, Jesus was sent to the Jews, who rejected him. In between prophets, God's teachings are corrupted or filled with interpolation or deletion or simply forgotten. Muhammed, peace be upon him, is called the Spirit of Truth because the teachings are definitively restored and the Ummah (ecclesia) now has a firm and unshakable clearness to hold fast to which has not been altered since it was delivered. Islam is scrupulous about this, with Ahadith for example there must be a chain of narration for where accounts come from, and gaps or unreliable narrators in the chain make an Hadith less credible in Muslim eyes

>>13198092
>Requiring someone else to pay a debt is not forgiving a debt, this is a serious problem with the crucifixion.

God didn't forgive his debt. God is just; he won't ignore a debt, that's not just.

>Jesus never said to stop obeying the law.

Of course not, he was divine.

>. Also the idea that Pilate would pardon Yeshua Barabbas, a Jewish nationalist who killed Roman soldiers, is nonsensical. Pilate would beat Barabbas severely and pass him off as Jesus

That's fanfiction. Present a historical document, not something made up 600 years later.

>The Son = God is an equivilance relation

No it's not. 0/10 Heretic

>It is clear that Jesus rescuing the woman being stoned is an interpolation.

Agreed.

>>13198200
Explain the parable of the prodigal son

Right, so Paul was wrong

>God can raise the dead but not dictate events at any time He wants

So Jesus is not God?

>>13197308
>why, yes, i am in fact a Christian, how could you tell?

>>13198244
The concubines

>>13198216

>Explain the parable of the prodigal son
It's about God's willingness to accept a humbled believer.

>Right, so Paul was wrong
Paul doesn't claim that Jesus stopped practising or teaching the law. What Paul does teach is that the law has to be interpreted in light of the resurrection; which Jesus was doing already, see Matthew 15:10-20

>God can raise the dead but not dictate events at any time He wants
not a good historical source.

>So Jesus is not God?
He is God, but there's no relation of equivalence. that's heresy. He is God because he has full divinity.

>>13198284
>It's about God's willingness to accept a humbled believer
Explain the Lord's Prayer

>See Matthew 15:10-20

That isn't about not eating Kosher, it's about whether or not you washed your hands. If Jesus were eating a pig, then maybe you would have a point, but handwashing before eating is not stipulated by the Law, or else Jesus woukd be teaching against it, which he explicitly said he was not in Matthew 5:18

Secular scholars don't accept anything theological from historical sources. If you believe God dictated the Pentateuch to Moses, then you already accept God provides narration hundreds of years later to prophets. The criterion is the theological validity

Ah, so he is God like Tom, Dick and Harry are man? That's polytheism

>>13198335
If sin is committed you have to repent. Not hard. i don't think you actually know atonement teaching is.

>That isn't about not eating Kosher
"It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles.". That goes against the Kosher law, which is why the Pharisees in the next verse take offence.

>Secular scholars don't accept anything theological from historical sources.
You said "Pilate would beat Barabbas severely and pass him off as Jesus." That's a historical claim. Prove it.

>so he is God like Tom
No he is God like God, and there's only one God.

>>13198496
Repenting is metanoisis, yes that is required for forgiveness

>i don't think you actually know atonement teaching is
I do, and it excludes forgiveness, as infinate payment leaves nothing to forgive

>You said "Pilate would beat Barabbas severely and pass him off as Jesus." That's a historical claim. Prove it

I mean, how would I go about that? Would Pilate or his subordinates publish it? I think Christ visited his apostles to reassure them he was alive

>No he is God like God, and there's only one God

That's an equivilance relation.

how is an agnostic supposed to pick the right religion to avoid hell, when you could spend millenia debating on which is true

>>13198635
Islam says virtous Christians and Jews go to heaven. Also that if you do go to hell, if you had even a mustard seed of faith, you will eventually be taken out of hell and go to paradise

>>13198651
based islam i guess
better than catholics who'd have me burn for eternity because i couldn't force myself into 1000 leaps of faith

>>13197463
>read (something), typically in a thorough or careful way.

>>13198665
Atheists go to heaven in Catholicism now, don't they? Or will in twenty years

>>13198696
"heaven" is the beatific vision and no, they don't if they don't ever look

>>13198668
I see you are the only one who perused that post :^)

>>13197325
Paul said you cannot judge those in that which you are guilty of yourself in Romans. People lose this because it is divided by verse, but it is still within the same sentence.
Paul was based. It's brainlets wrong interpretation of him that gives him bad rap.

>>13198696
Psh, even if they did, an unbaptised agnostic fag would be a push

>>13198707

Tfw heaven in Islam is palaces, women, meadows, banquets, and chilling with friends

The beatific vision is also part of it though, it's when you see Allah (swt) directly instead of just reflected.

>>13198723
Islam is a meme for submissive betas who aren't Chad enough to carry their cross.

>>13198709
The people who do a stoning are the executioners, not judges. But no doubt criminals can't be judges

>>13198728
Cope, Islam is Mad Max crossed with hyper squareness

>>13198743
>mad max
>literally just wall to wall rank and file poors smelling like feet and raising their butts to the sky
no thanks

>>13198762
This is essential what Arabia looked like until Muhammad, peace be upon him, unified it. Never fails to amuse me that boomers attack him for beimg a warlord--Moses and Joshua were warlords

>>13198774
>being THIS ignorant and uninformed
Islamlarpers are the saddest breed of anon.

>>13198781
Not an argument

>>13198743
Islam is a militant political ideology, not a religion. It's a shame that so many on this board have been brainwashed away from the true faith, and the good word of Jesus Christ.

>>13197385
where does nirvana fit here

>>13197308
Good day, bootlicking slave.

>>13199271
>the good word
What's that? Calling people degenerate bugmen on 4chan?

Christianity is a vile disease.

>the religion my mommy raised me on just so happens to be the one true religion
what a lovely coincidence. MODS can we please kick religion and philosophy faggots out? I'm here to discuss books and book accessories, not play in the sandbox with xtian larpers who are mad they cant get laid.
>>13197334
as much as i hate pisslam it is superior to "turn the other cheek" christcvcks. "take a sword and go conquer shit. lie if you have to." there's something to be respected there, strong horse and all that. they're retards, but effective retards.

>>13199271
>God isn't militant
>God is indifferent to laws and government

i read "shorter summa" by peter kreeft

>>13197320
>>13197325
Mohammad was a pedophile and philanderer. A brown Dave Koresh. He'd ask to fuck your wife, and you'd be obligated to let him according to the Satanic Koran. Who's the real cuck here?

>>13200007
What on earth are you talking about, Jew? You boomer.

>>13200050
I mean he did marry and fuck a kid

>>13200090
Which was accepted practice everywhere up until less than a hundred years ago. The age of consent did not originally apply to marriage, which could be below it, it was used to stop child prostitution. Nowadays it is just the reverse: you can fornicate at any age but must wait much later to marry.

>>13198635
Not only do you have to pick one, you have to discredit the others.