/lit/ - Literature

>>13149331
How could a smart man like Schopenhauer still be so misogynistic?

>>13149331
>misogyny is dumb
Quite the opposite, my dear fellow

>>13149331
you see, I can handle this stuff. but the misogyny makes me not want to touch his stuff.

>>13149331
He was misogynistic because he was smart.

He was straight up ugly and as such women undoubtedly had a negative disposition towards him. Misogyny was then a coping mechanism for him (a sour grapes type of situation, if you will).

>>13149331
>How could a smart man like Schopenhauer not be misogynistic?
fix'd

>>13149363
>when a women's only worth is determined by access to her holes

How could a smart man like Schopenhauer still be so misogynistic?

>>13149331
>Misogyny is for a smart man like Schopenhauer.

ftfy

>>13149367
they wouldn't be so obsessed over controlling sex if they didn't know it was true

>>13149413
True, it's just funny because they willing propagate this fact with the "have sex" meme

>>13149331
"...When Nature made two divisions of the human race, she did not draw the line exactly through the middle. These divisions are polar and opposed to each other, it is true; but the difference between them is not qualitative merely, it is also quantitative.

This is just the view which the ancients took of woman, and the view which people in the East take now; and their judgment as to her proper position is much more correct than ours, with our old French notions of gallantry and our preposterous system of reverence--that highest product of Teutonico-Christian stupidity. These notions have served only to make women more arrogant and overbearing; so that one is occasionally reminded of the holy apes in Benares, who in the consciousness of their sanctity and inviolable position, think they can do exactly as they please.

But in the West, the woman, and especially the lady, finds herself in a false position; for woman, rightly called by the ancients, sexus sequior, is by no means fit to be the object of our honor and veneration, or to hold her head higher than man and be on equal terms with him. The consequences of this false position are sufficiently obvious. Accordingly, it would be a very desirable thing if this Number-Two of the human race were in Europe also relegated to her natural place, and an end put to that lady nuisance, which not only moves all Asia to laughter, but would have been ridiculed by Greece and Rome as well. It is impossible to calculate the good effects which such a change would bring about in our social, civil and political arrangements. There would be no necessity for the Salic law: it would be a superfluous truism. In Europe the lady, strictly so-called, is a being who should not exist at all; she should be either a housewife or a girl who hopes to become one; and she should be brought up, not to be arrogant, but to be thrifty and submissive. It is just because there are such people as ladies in Europe that the women of the lower classes, that is to say, the great majority of the sex, are much more unhappy than they are in the East. And even Lord Byron says: Thought of the state of women under the ancient Greeks--convenient enough. Present state, a remnant of the barbarism of the chivalric and the feudal ages--artificial and unnatural. They ought to mind home--and be well fed and clothed--but not mixed in society. Well educated, too, in religion--but to read neither poetry nor politics-- nothing but books of piety and cookery. Music--drawing--dancing--also a little gardening and ploughing now and then. I have seen them mending the roads in Epirus with good success. Why not, as well as hay-making and milking?..."
(Schopenhauer)

BASED

>>13149451
Has anything more true ever been written?

>It is only the man whose intellect is clouded by his sexual impulses that could give the name of the fair sex to that under-sized, narrow-shouldered, broad-hipped, and short-legged race; for the whole beauty of the sex is bound up with this impulse. Instead of calling them beautiful, there would be more warrant for describing women as the un-aesthetic sex

low soul-IQ

>>13149508
/thread

>>13149518
Every woman who supports abortion is small-souled. The morning after pill exists, so there's literally no excuse for letting a pregnancy reach the point where an abortion is necessary. Rape is even less of an excuse, because then they know exactly when it happened and can't miss the window of opportunity to take the pill. It's nothing less than total irresponsibility on the part of women. I can't respect them.

>>13149331
I like women but I want to (consensually) beat them up. Why?

>>13149451

>>13149551
Open your eyes to reality. The first female characters in western literary tradition are war booty (Chryseis and Briseis).

>>13149363
Ugly by modern American standards, perhaps. He was alright for the times.

>>13149493
How will women ever recover?

>>13149363
Women didn't care about muh looks back then as much as they do now.

>>13149363
schopenhauer had like 10 different stds, he was not ``incel"

His father committed suicide, while he and his mother, a somewhat liberated woman, didn't get on so well.

>>13149451
Yeah that’s based and redpilled and all, but does he explain why he believes women are inferior to begin with?

>>13149575
>>13149584
He was a 3/10 at best no matter how you slice it and if you think women back then didn't care about looks you're delusional.
>>13149620
Yeah, from having sex with prostitutes (which is cucked obviously).
Schopenhauer is a text book beta male. He even went to the opera everyday, which is basically the equivalent of watching anime all day. If he were alive today he'd be posting on /r9k/.

>>13149575
he looks like a result of incest

>>13149363
lol society didnt work like that

LMAO

>>13149331
He was ugly and short.

>"That woman is by nature meant to obey may be seen by the fact that every woman who is placed in the unnatural position of complete independence, immediately attaches herself to some man, by whom she allows herself to be guided and ruled. It is because she needs a lord and master. If she is young, it will be a lover; if she is old, a priest."

>>13149650
>if you think women back then didn't care about looks you're delusional.
Maybe it ranked 3rd or 4th in their list. Certainly not 1st. Looks weren't a priority in a man. Status, education, and wealth came first.

>>13149331
why cant you have interest in his other amazing essays? why is this shit always brought up abt him?

>>13149649
Yes, he does. He basis his opinion on nature and since we're not that different from other animals, he's correct.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Of_Women

>>13149685
and what if he was among men with the same status education and wealth like he was?

>>13149694
have sex

>>13149650
hes not ugly at all, hes like 50 in that pic and still looks better than most 50 year old men today. super strong wide jaw, a robust brow ridge. he was documented to have had relationships with numerous (non-prostitute) women dude

>>13149722
Not with you.
Try any random low IQ ape in the streets because I have more important things to focus on, succubus.

>>13149700
Compatible personalities, charm, eloquence, etc. Looks obsession as a first priority in a man is mostly modern, precisely because of what you said, since everyone can live comfortably in this day and age and everyone can have the same opportunities, people tend to focus on physical appearence as the tie breaker, I suppose also propelled by social media, peer validation, etc.

>>13149744
he looks insane.
>>13149761
nah man, i appreciate that youre into metaphysics and all but you are not a lover, and as schopenhaur said older women like a 'priest', so i would say maybe you should hook up with women in their late 30s, after they have finished with lovers? have you tried that? then you might get laid my friend

>>13149767
>Compatible personalities
this seems almost meaningless to me, why is it meaningful to you? i can talk to almost anybody

>>13149650
>Yeah, from having sex with prostitutes (which is cucked obviously).
>Schopenhauer is a text book beta male. He even went to the opera everyday, which is basically the equivalent of watching anime all day. If he were alive today he'd be posting on /r9k/.


>opera is the equivalent anime
hahaha you got me on this one

>having sex with hookers is cucked
elite sportsmen are cucked?


come on...

Ignore the female in this thread, friends.

>>13149692
because no one here actually reads his essays

>>13149331
I once sent on women to a girl I was interested in, curious on how she would react to it, and she replied "wtf this is literally describing me"

Women are a meme. Next question.

>>13149650
Top kek post/10

>>13149744
>he was documented to have had relationships with numerous (non-prostitute) women dude
Yeah, like this used up middle aged turbo slut with a kid (whom he even left a bunch of money like a true beta). It doesn't get much more cucked than this.

Just because you are smart and have a keen mind doesn't mean you are above emotions. Heterosexual people have a huge emotional investment in how the opposite sex responds to them, and are often most deeply and most intimate hurt in their interactions with people of the opposite sex. Any issues with sexuality (consciously or subconsciously finding sexuality amoral, dehumanizing, whatever) are also projected on the people that show them sexual desire and that they have sexual experiences with.

These can all motivate a negative view. On top of that, it is simply a good feeling to place yourself above another group of people, creating a narrative in which you belong to the superior crowd. Whether those others are animals, different races, women, or just men from a different belief system/country/disposition. Most everyone likes to crown themselves best of the bunch.

>>13149493
This for example makes no sense. Proclaiming women ugly because they do not look like men? I mean, personal taste is not up for discussion, but a being is what it is and whether or not it's a beautiful specimen depends on what traits are seen as healthy/youthful etc in them. That's the only more or less objective standard there is, everything else is feels. Nothing wrong with those, they give life flavor, but it's hardly a strong intellectual theory.

>>13149836
She's not middle aged, I don't know why I said that. The absolute cuckery got to my head, but my point still stands.

>>13149771
It means you're comfortable around a person and consider him/her attractive, personality-wise. Is that all you have to say about what I wrote?

.99 of men and women live trainwreck lives that intersect with each others trainwreck lives and make them more of a trainwreck as they sacrifice over and over again to the idols, indulge themselves in what they find 'sexy' - which is of course BEING MALE or BEING FEMALE because its all one giant virtue signaling retard fuckhouse the more male you look the more female give you the big fuck! Oh have kid? Ah whatever - Hope he like fucking too! We just love fucking! Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck! Cry cry cry cry cry! Rape! Murder! WHAT HAPENING WHY GO WRONG!?

>>13149363
Meanwhile the ugliest woman in the world is extremely happy. Hmm.

>>13149842
Schopenhauer also had a sense humor. He wasn't serious all the time. Yes, I believe he, just like his "successor" Nietzsche, kind of subconsciously hated women because they weren't very successful with them, but most of what he says is very accurate, especially nowadays with the rise of feminism.

>"If you go to see a woman do not forget the whip"
Nee-cha

>>13149331
The more you try to understand women, the more you hate them.
The only real woman in your life, whomst you can trust is your own mother. And least in my case, and I know that this also might not be true for everyone, but for the majority of males, this is the only woman in their life that will always have your best interests in mind.

>>13149767
>>13149878
>>13149842
based gentlemen in an otherwise cringe reddit tier thread

>>13149896
If women truly were retarded insufferable cunts it wouldn't be up to a handful of outsiders to point it out. The entire discourse of psychology doesn't even distinguish prominently between men and women when it comes to in inner life, psychological needs and abilities and so on.

>>13149650
Based post

>>13149650
cringe and bluepilled

>>13149363
I thought I read somewhere that Schopenhauer was actually a notorious lecher. Anyway, I doubt most 19th century men of his station would have to be virgins if they didn't want to, literally Henry James even had sex.

>>13149842
i agree that much of what of Schopenhauer said but you are right that some of his 'criticism's or opinions on women are informed by his emotional investment, same with most hetero men. nonetheless some of what he said i think is true. maybe if schopenhauer had written an essay on the flaws of men as a collective it would be easier to stomach his words but he obv did no such thing. on the whole i would say that he was right that women are mentally childlike, uninterested in higher culture etc. on the flipside, men can be brutally amoral, amongst other things

>>13149960
Just because you have (regular, even) sex doesn't mean you don't face (potentially harsh) rejections too. Besides only men who don't get women desperately care about getting "women", general, men who can get women only care about getting the women they want.

>>13149680
Stop watching anime.

>>13149976
It's all a matter of perception. Schopenhauer thought men were rational, but men are much more likely to do drugs, commit violence or suicide, or just do high risk stunts like you see in the home videos. It is just easy to overlook things that don't fit the narrative you're working on.

bump

>>13150041
Just to elaborate on this, if you look at academia women are currently doing better than men. When men are doing better you can obviously go "well, there you have it, men are smarter!" Now that girls are doing better you have "no wonder, those sheeple just obey and rehearse everything, it is proof of their simpler and unoriginal minds that they do better".

I'm an author in a small country where the whole literary scene knows each other more or less and it's very clear here too. For a long time the message was "women are just poorer writers than men, they are not read and don't win prizes because they don't write better books". It's hard to uphold that nowadays because we have quite a number of celebrated contemporary female authors - as is the case internationally, few novels caused such a buzz as Normal People, Kudos, Asymmetry - but then it's "women are very good writers but they are craftsmen, it's all skill and no inspiration, and this is what the audience appreciates because it's safer than the rawness of men".

Traditionally feminine topics have also traditionally been shunned as boring, mundane, trivial etc, but Knausgard reach mythological status fawning over every details of his kid and marriage.

Basically just because a good argument can be made to support one viewpoint doesn't mean you can't turn it around and supply a good argument to support the opposing viewpoint. Which viewpoint you end up taking is a matter of affinity and not intellectual rigor.

>>13150041
>drugs, commit violence or suicide, or just do high risk stunts
>irrational

>>13150235
Doing self-destructive things for short term pleasure or because of a lack of impulse control is hardly the result of a machine mind.

Not that I see this as a negative thing, a machine mind could not make art, but still.

People in general are not rational. Reasonable is already quite something.

>>13149366
Unironically this.

>>13149548
>Rape is even less of an excuse
I can guarantee you the last thing any rape victim wants to do is find out if their rapist fathered a child with them, as if the act of rape wasn't traumatic enough already. You can accuse them of being cowardly or 'small-souled' but the fact of the matter is that their fragile state won't allow them to confront or even acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy. There's a difference between a lack of responsibility and psychological denial that protects them from fully confronting what happened to them.

>>13150315
They can solve the pregnancy by taking a pill, which is an enormous relief. Thank goodness I don't have to carry the baby of my rapist to term. No excuse for requiring an abortion in those circumstances.

>>13150222
I'm reading the first pages of Asymmetry on Amazon right now. A girl is reading a book on a park bench and gets seduced by a famous author. Pretty mundane, does it get better? What's the hook?

>>13150374
Yeah it does. Personally I liked the style too though, it was kind of crisp and fresh to me. There's no lingering on sexual feelings or emotional development as often is the case in romance stories, it's really just about life in a stream of consciousness sort of way, just a whole lot of glimpses not just into her experiences and conversations but also the stuff she reads. I loved the dialogue too, stiff dialogue is one of my most common pet peeves in otherwise great books.

The real hook though is that after so many pages the script flips and it's no longer about her but a story about a Muslim man reflecting on his life and family (the implication is that she is the author but this is not made explicit).

If you dislike the style though I wouldn't necessarily continue just for that.

Only until he had sex

>I have not yet spoken my last word about women. I believe that if a woman succeeds in withdrawing from the mass, or rather raising herself from above the mass, she grows ceaselessly and more than a man

>>13150363
Except you have to take the pill in a limited time frame (48 hours max, the less the better) and there's already a lot of other stuff to be done. If you want any chance of catching there's reporting to the police and a full physical examination. There's hopefully going to be family and friends crowding around you fretting over you and trying to distract you. Most rape victims feel an overwhelming urge to shower/bathe for a very, very long time. This is all still ignoring that their head is spinning and full of flashbacks and what ifs.

You have very little empathy if you truly can't imagine not being in the right frame of mind to think of precautions for a potential pregnancy then. And this is having a grown, level-headed woman in mind, not a teenage girl who barely knows about sex and heard from her friends that you can only get pregnant when you ovulate or something.

>>13150444
All you have to do is take a pill. The hospital gives it to you. It's objectively easier to do than everything else she would be doing, like sitting in a police interview room and giving a statement. Letting a pregnancy take in those circumstances is irresponsible, and itself demonstrates a lack of empathy, especially if she goes on to get an abortion later.

>>13150467
Well, the way plan B works you basically are drowned in hormones until you get a very heavy forced flow accompanied by some serious pain. And depending on how it went down you are already feeling quite sore and open.

I guess I shouldn't be arguing this thought because while I don't think anyone gets happy from the idea of killing fetuses, I can't really comprehend having this intensely a pro-life disposition.
Say you are right, the woman is retarded and entirely irresponsible, she shows zero self-awareness - should she then be solely responsible for the child she is having and does not want? A child who is going to remind their mom of a trauma they cannot help? Especially when the mother is already in a risk category (it's not stable, smart, middle class girls with a bright future who have the highest risk of getting raped, it's vulnerable girls with lower IQs, or mental issues, or into drugs)?
I guess it's easy to say that no faith is worse than death but the combination of the damage it does to the mother's life and bodily autonomy and the situation unwanted children are placed in doesn't make it appealing for me in the slightest.

>>13149451
Holy fuck, just when I couldn't think he could be more based, my expectations are outdone yet again

>>13149672
t. Grapist

>>13149842
>Proclaiming women ugly because they do not look like men?
you may be onto something

>>13150505
>very heavy forced flow accompanied by some serious pain
Easier to deal with than either childbirth or abortion.
>I guess I shouldn't be arguing this thought because while I don't think anyone gets happy from the idea of killing fetuses, I can't really comprehend having this intensely a pro-life disposition.
I don't understand what you mean by this. But I agree you probably shouldn't be arguing unless your goal here is to prove Schopenhaur right.
>Say you are right, the woman is retarded and entirely irresponsible, she shows zero self-awareness - should she then be solely responsible for the child she is having and does not want? A child who is going to remind their mom of a trauma they cannot help?
I never said that I think abortions should be unavailable to raped women. I'm saying that if woman have access to the morning after pill, getting an abortion shows how lazy and irresponsible they are.
>or into drugs
Then it should be easy for them to take a pill.

>>13150585
Saying "every woman who supports [not even has an] abortion is small-souled" doesn't exactly imply you think abortion should be available to anyone at all.

Is there really no escape from the madness? Is it all just fucking and pining for what will never come? Why must we sacrifice our minds to the study of particulars, or to the broad sweeping generalizations of the universality? There is no real intellect. It is all just a quick realization, then a slumber into what is now perceived to be "obvious." Just look at the sad state of this thread for instance. There are several people here, all with their fucking dogshit opinions, whining about women when they could be working to improve themselves. But what is even the point of improving yourself? To feel good about yourself, and place yourself above others? To aim for the form of the good? What even is the form of the good? It doesn't exist. There's merely just a million differences which separate us and cause different manifest entities. Fuck this gay earth. Jesus christ.

>>13149348
>my dear fellow
Case in point

>>13151875
It is all one great Either/Or, isn't it, anon? Yes, you and I will sit back and watch the eithers and the ors. It is more esthetic this way, no?

>>13149650
>He even went to the opera everyday, which is basically the equivalent of watching anime all day
kek.

>>13150315
>trauma means you get the dumb
psychologist here, you're retard. fuck offpls
>inb4 haha psychology
i know faggot

>>13149331
Understanding women isn't hating them. Only by truly understanding their nature can you love them. Most men these day do not love women, only their idea of woman as equal beings. But that creature does not exist.

>>13153267
haha psychology
what are you going to do next, blame the subconscious for something you can't explain?
tell me everything I do is because I wanna fuck my mum?
fucking faggot

>>13149896
This post is either wui wei tier bait or fractally stupid

>>13149331
Selfinflicted long term isolation makes you a dick. I think everyone of us, who write academic or narrative stuff, could agree with this.
Also, will theory is good and the rest of his theory could be replaced with deleuzian cartography right now, so is easier for us to not become that kind of man.

>>13150222
If you think succeeding in modern academia is indicative of skill, I'm not sure anyone should listen to you. Women are doing better, more generally, because women are prioritized. Men are expected to just do everything on their own, and step aside for women who may be less qualified. "Doing better" in this context means "getting jobs", and since academia isn't objective, you can't really assume they're more qualified - and given the state of academia, and its apparently approaching collapse, you could argue the opposite.

Again, they're celebrated because they're good? You hear stories about publishers who say things like "we're not accepting any books from white men right now" or perhaps are just doing it silently, how can you assume that celebration by the modern literary scene equals talent in any shape or form? You are likely biased due to your own success, not wanting to think of the possibility due to it calling into question your own ability. And in my opinion, male OR female, craft seems to be taking precedence over inspiration, and that might very well favor women. And this is from someone whose second favorite author is female.

>>13149899
This is the truth.
The problem lies in the bizarre narrative of romance and the even worse expectations from it.

>>13153286
Have sex.

The worst thing about women is their pack mentality.
They are absolute herd animals. They are totally unable to think for themselves. Everywhere, in every situation, they are looking for someone to lead them. This makes women very susceptible to manipulation.

>>13149650
>He’s ugly, see!
>posts pic of him when he’s like 60

>>13149331
He didn't have sex.

>>13149331

possibly because of his relation with his mother and the influence of th upanishads, india is quite misogynistic

>>13149331
>misogynistic
He's misanthropic but you've read him wrong if you think he's misogynistic. He doesn't blame women for the whores in London; he blames you for creating whores and wanting no responsibility for that.

>>13154138
>The worst thing about women is their pack mentality.
>They are absolute herd animals. They are totally unable to think for themselves. Everywhere, in every situation, they are looking for someone to lead them. This makes women very susceptible to manipulation.

yes, i remember the alpha bitch (i´m one of the few males in the class) complained that i signed my signature with a different pen color (blue one vs black one), fucking give me a break

>>13154400
yeah his relationship with his mother no doubt influenced his view of women. She was a bit of a cunt and probably one of the main reasons his dad committed suicide. Poor Schoppy, he was a good lad really.

>>13154138
Feminism is the bourgeoise attempting to gain more of an edge over the bourgeois by selling proletarian women, who were always the most privileged of the proletariat class, narcissism and anti-male rhetoric.

>>13149552
Welcome to the board fren.

>>13149650
>Schopenhauer is a text book beta male. He even went to the opera everyday, which is basically the equivalent of watching anime all day.
Lmao this is why I come to 4chan

>>13151939
Man, it sucks to be a midwit.

>>13150222
Well this post was fucking dumb. No sources on stupid claims and poor reasoning.
>here's my biased experience on things, women are better authors now that literature is commodified and stemming piles of YA shit are sold by bulk

>>13155190
She was flirting with you anon

>>13155357
sure bucko, sure

>>13150444
I hate this shit. Lazy people can whine all they want about their incompetency but that's nothing in life comes easy. This applies to getting a certain job position and how hard you're willing to go