/lit/ - Literature

Stalin

Better yet: why do you keep associating with the Koch brothers?

On the 22nd of April he gave a talk to the Koch-funded Heritage Foundation.

He has also spoken before the Koch funded Manhattan Institute.

He often cites on his twitter the Cato Institute founded HumanProgress - and the Cato Institute is Koch founded and funded.

As well as the Institute for Humane Studies - Charles Koch has been the chairman of its board for decades and pumped millions into it.

He also attends TPUSA events - TPUSA receives funding from 4 different Koch funded groups and numerous other Koch funded pundits attend with him.

He first came to public prominence at Rebel Media - Rebels founder Ezra Levant did his college internship at the Charles Koch Foundation and later worked at the Fraser Institute, the Kochs principal think tank in Canada, it has received funding from the Middle East Forum which has in turn received funding from Donors Capital Fund a 'blind trust' the Kochs and several other wealthy rightwingers use to fund climate denial and anti-muslim groups.

Why are the Kochs so keen on Mr. Peterson?

uhhh... well, uhh, 25% of s-social science, uh, professor are, idenitify as Marxists, so uhh... I think the link between postmodernism and Marxism is pretty clear...

>>13000259
>why are neocons so keen for a guy that practically dicksuscks their ideology
r u being srs

>>13000259

Baudrillard, Deleuze, Foucault, Derrida, Lyotard, Adorno, Horkheimer, Marcuse, Benjamin, Jameson, Gramsci, Nietzsche, Lacan, Heidegger, Blanchot, Bataille, Mcluhan, Badiou, Whitehead, Land, Meillassoux, Virilio, Althusser, Bloch, Debord, Zizek

>>13000259
HumanProgress citations
>>13000267
The Kochs are ancap lolbertarians not neocons

>>13000274
>ONE (1)
you're really bad at math

>>13000274

>>13000259
IHS citation

>>13000274
>from throughout history (some are dead), and overseas

>>13000267
But Peterson is a non partisan unideological rationalist pursuing truth, good, and ideas for all us young men and western values

>>13000279
so he's a shill for the Cato Institute; I wish I was suprised...

>>13000293
his heritage foundation talk was about why young people are embracing socialism and how to counter this with personal development

>>13000259
It's very simple. Peterson goes where the money is. The Koch brothers have money. There's no conspiracy, it's just that Koch-funded institutes can pay the hefty fees that Peterson demands.

>>13000279
lolbertarians are just neocons with delusions of fairness

>>13000295
well a Cato front

>>13000279
>>13000284
holy shit this is so funny, how have I never seen this before. how fucking retarded do you have to be to follow his page and not notice this shit, he's even hashtagging his sponsors

>>13000302
They have no delusions of fairness
They want to rig a """free""" market that will be balanced in their favour and disadvantage minorities

>>13000309
You mean blacks and hispanics. Asians have no trouble with this 'rigged' market

>>13000313
Nope, Asians have been purposefully given a leg up to make them a model minority

>>13000274
>Nietzsche
>Marxist
oh no its retarded

>>13000313
>people migrating from developed countries are the same as people suffering generations of institutional poverty and discrimination in this country

>>13000315
that's certainly a novel conspiracy theory
asians were heavily discriminated against and came out on top because they have high IQs.

Are China, Japan, and SK also a plot by the Koch brothers to make Asians a model minority?

>>13000318
almost half those people aren't Marxists anon

Raymond Williams and all the others involved with the development of cultural studies.

>>13000322
Many chinese immigrated when China was not developed at all

>>13000245
>Zizek.
Damn, Peterson missed a golden opportunity to btfo him there.

>>13000324
yeah but that was the single funniest one

>>13000315
also how do you square 'asians being given a leg up' with the average SAT scores of Asian and Black undergrads being massively different. pretty sure it's blacks being given a leg up

>>13000300
It's very simple. Interest groups, political donors, foundation heads, think tanks, research institutes advocate for policies and spread influence. They have an agenda. They influential speakers to further those interests and reach voters. It's not criminal, or even a conspiracy. But it is political.

>>13000259
Social science and cultural studies departments are nothing more than leftist think tanks, and they have far more funding that anything the Koch's could provide.

>>13000259
Koch funds institutions friendly to the US right and Peterson speaks at institutions friendly to the US right. Not really a conspiracy. Happens in every field.

>>13000345
Asians have their test results rewritten to increase there score, Blacks and Hispanics have theirs decreased. There is a whole score adjusting industry going on, I have seen the rooms where the results are fixed.

>>13000444
You are actually insane fucking lol. Are the crime stats cooked too? Is every Hispanic and black country kept in poverty by the worldwide racist conspiracy while East asia is propped up?

>>13000455
>Are the crime stats cooked too?
Obviously lol.

>Is every Hispanic and black country kept in poverty by the worldwide racist conspiracy

Yes.


> while East asia is propped up?

Of course.

Maybe you should a read a fucking history book.

>>13000538
Your view of history is that someone(the us?) is literally controlling most of the entire planet's economies and behavior to make it seem like East Asians(who have dominated historically since before the US was founded) are smarter than blacks and hispanics(who have never dominated at any point in history). For what fucking purpose would they expend this much energy and waste that much potential,I dont even know where to begin with how fucking stupid you are

this is literally the dumbest thing I have seen on this board ever

>>13000300
>Peterson goes where the money is.
Wrong. The money goes to Peterson because he uncritically supports the same ideology as the Koch's.

Its the same as any media, the shit floats to the top and everything else is drowned in noise.

>>13000245
Bifo

>>13000538
based

me

>>13000941
Yes I think this is the correct answer
He hasn't looked to spout things they find please
They have found a useful idiot who really does believe what he says and now they help him along, advancing his career, increasing his public exposure

>>13000366
http://polluterwatch.org/charles-koch-university-funding-database
Incorrect
>>13000366
So it is simply a coincidence due to the sheer volume of Koch funding + groups they have created?

>>13001002
do you know how many billionaires support progs? Are you completely fucking retarded

>>13001013
All pushing the rightwing agenda
The Coors, Searles, Melon-Scaifes, DeVos, Mercers, etc

>>13000315
Asians (along with Slavs i.e. Russians) are the only group that it's still ok to be racist towards without some woketard cancelling you. Not including wyte pipo of course.

>>13000245
Karl Kautsky

Peterson a fraud

>>13000245
Are Petersondrones the most embarrassing phase /lit/ had to go through? At least the Stirnerfags and Landposters were funny at times

Butterfly

>>13000274
>Baudrillard, Deleuze, Foucault, Derrida, Lyotard
Oh yes the postmodern neo-marxists
>Nietzsche
Ok, nice bait
>Heidegger
Now that's just too obvious, but have a (you) anyway

>>13000245
It's not petersons fault that the sjw's incorrectly categorize themselves as marxists. OK, they're not marxists, but everything peterson says about them and the current political atmosphere is still correct.

Kautsky

>>13001059
>>13001649
He's dead, Jim.

>>13001680
and only 20 years later than he should have

>>13000263
What's wrong with this answer?

>>13000455
Law enforcement is geared towards focusing on the poor and minorities.
Why is so much geared towards street level drug dealing and users while the white collar crime units in the FBI and IRS ignore white collar crime - including the banks that launder the drug money

>>13001719
Nothing. It's just that marxism operates on apes that love being intentionally wrong if it lets them win.

Not Butterfly, that's for sure. She's a conservative.

Butterfly, listen, these fucking faggots lost a thread the other day and they got pissy. That's the only reason they said any negative shit to me at all.

Two things for all of you:

1) you notice that when I'm not posting, neither is she. You don't want one? You don't want the other. Simple as that.

2) I hurt your feelings the other day butterfly, showing you have some for me.

Simple as that. This shit is necessary to move forward. When you are in a good mood with me, you are quoting bible books like no ones business (she knows the bible well).

When you aren't, you are stating that evolution theory is correct and posting that stupid three-book picture. Regardless if you piss ME off enough that I leave, we both know you won't be posting anymore. So there has to be a solution here.

:3

>>13001002
50 mil is nothing when it comes to college funding. If this was a real threat the sanctioned think tanks of cultural studies be social science departments would have been rightfully crushed.

I have never heard a marxist complain about postmodern SJWs or whatever you want to call it before Zizek.

>>13000259
They like what he says and they have money. He likes money. So he says these things for money instead of saying it for free the rest of time and in the early days. Same as every other public intelectual.

When he gets endorsements from dictators I'll care.

>>13001719
because first it is a very flimsy claim, second identyfing as marxists means everything and nothing, third a fourth of professors is not even enough to claim that the "control" academia, let alone they are an hegemonic force in the intellectual discourse.

As Zizek said, if the marxists in academia are so dangerous and pervasive, then you should be able to provide names, an example of this ebil commies corrupting our universities... He could not even mention David Harvey, which Zizek mentions.

It's the same problem with all grand claims made by right-wing nuts, like "the joos" or "the sjws" all undefined sets in which I can fit whatever I need at a moment's notice and that I do not have to justify because there is nothing to justify.

>>13002064
>if the marxists in academia are so dangerous and pervasive, then you should be able to provide names, an example of this ebil commies corrupting our universities
does this ho count

>>13001719
Because it doesn't name one (1) Marxist specifically, as requested, but relies on vague generalities to weakly support the claim that this alleged one-quarter of a narrow field has the influence and coherent intention undermine "The West" by indoctrinating our society with "postmodern neo-Marxism"?

>>13002078
lol seriously? I am suppsed to take as truth the two lines she used to describe her VERY OFFICIAL AND VERY ACADEMICALLY RELEVANT twitter profile? Two lines that are very clearly written to make fun of /pol/tards like you?

>>13002080
It’s precisely because that field is tasked by society with solving social problems. There is a direct line from the social sciences to public policy, and that is what makes it so dangerous.

>>13002094
There is an even stronger direct line between the economists in academia and economic policy, but none is worried about the overwhelming prevalence of right wing propaganda in economic courses.

Furthermore if you seriously think professors are actually taken seriously and not simply used to justify the new-and-improved corporate welfare policy, you are under some serious pure ideology.

This one

>>13002064
SJWs are real tho. Just identify some intersectional rhetoric and you have found one.

>>13002109
> There is an even stronger direct line between the economists in academia and economic policy, but none is worried about the overwhelming prevalence of right wing propaganda in economic courses
Their influence isn’t as pervasive and generally lacks the moral component to give it the weight sociology has in its grip on the national consciousness. What makes it so powerful is that it can attack and shape the conditions necessary for economic functions to even occur.
>
Furthermore if you seriously think professors are actually taken seriously and not simply used to justify the new-and-improved corporate welfare policy, you are under some serious pure ideology.
They are taken seriously because such is their purpose. The left understood that academia would be the single most influential cultural institution in an increasingly technical world as it would be the only one that could by and large enable people to participate in a such a world’s economy. The position makes them the gatekeepers of social mobility, and as such renders their moral/political agenda (developed by the social sciences and Marxist derived cultural studies) sacrosanct.

>>13002147
The point is not whether they are real or not, the point is if the specific kind of SJW (or cultural marxist) right wingers have in mind not only exist, but exist in such numbers and influence that they are able to control or at least manipulate academic policy and even governments and corporations.

Jews exist, rich jews exist, rich jews that use their wealth to manipulate governments in their favor exist, that does not make the "joo" that exists in the mid of fascists real.

>>13002172
> but exist in such numbers and influence that they are able to control or at least manipulate academic policy and even governments and corporations
Control of academic policy will inevitably lead to control of the latter. Anyone who downplays the power and influence of academia is a disingenuous actor.

>>13002166
>Their influence isn’t as pervasive and generally lacks the moral component to give it the weight sociology has in its grip on the national consciousness.
First show me how sociology has any actual impact on "national consciousness" (whatever that even is); second none that has actual power gives a single shit about what public opinion says, policy is almost exclusively based on what the rich folks want, and this claim is actually supported by data.
>What makes it so powerful is that it can attack and shape the conditions necessary for economic functions to even occur.
And the opposite is equally true, if not even more powerful (ideas cannot fill your stomach after all). Are you seriously trying to imply that because sociology has the most remote possibility of making any substantial change to society, that we should purge it of marxist?
>They are taken seriously because such is their purpose.
What is this idiocy? The role of intellectuals is and always have been of providing support and justification for the established authorities. THose that seek to subvert authority are and always have been considered fringe if not actively ostracized by mainstream academic discourse (like what happens to the marxists, the actual marxists that agree with marx).
>The left understood that academia would be the single most influential cultural institution in an increasingly technical world as it would be the only one that could by and large enable people to participate in a such a world’s economy.
And so the evil Marxist union of evil hatched a mutli-staged decades long plan to infiltrate the universities of the wrold ad destroy the western from from within! Hail Hydra! No wait, wrong one, oh whatever nazis were socialists it''s in the name! Hail Hydra!
>The position makes them the gatekeepers of social mobility, and as such renders their moral/political agenda (developed by the social sciences and Marxist derived cultural studies) sacrosanct.
Oh sure, it's the marxists that plan from the beginning who gets to pass and who is will never obtain a degree! It makes perfect sense! That's why they are so expensive! I know it sounds bogus since the evil leftist evil league of evil does not actually control the job market, which is where peopel get the money to SURVIVE, that is firmly in the hands of our benevolent corporate overlords; but they have no influence over academia, how could they? They are just the ones that are directly interested in the products universities produce and have an enormous vested interest in making sure only proud and productive citizens get out of academia.

>>13002182
>Control of academic policy will inevitably lead to control of the latter. Anyone who downplays the power and influence of academia is a disingenuous actor.
Oh fuck off. How much have the scientists and professors influenced the governments of the world on climate change and ecological disaster? Fucking zero! How much have corporations influenced said policies? Well, let's see... we know that most companies knew decades ago they were buttfucking the planet raw and spent literal billions to make sure they were absolutely allowed to keep doing it and even slip in a bigger dildo.
The result is we will no longer have artic ice within the decade. I WONDER WHO ACTUALLY CONTROLS OUR SOCIETY. I BET IT'S THE EVIL MARXIST EVIL UNION OF EVIL PROFESSORS AND EVIL SCIENTISTS OF EVIL!

>>13002223
The Marxists indeed inhabit an intellectual sphere which has monetary control, yes.

It's the Marxist paradox. That any body of people could exist without a monetary influence on society is ridiculous. There is literally Marxist propaganda in this day and age. Look at this thread.

Their cause is Academia, just look at how often the word Marxist or Neomarxist is thrown around in colleges

>high school students telling me how cultural marxists have invaded academia

>>13002289
>The Marxists indeed inhabit an intellectual sphere which has monetary control, yes.
control of what intellectual sphere, in what nmeasure and in which country, on which questions do this influence gets itself present? What institution profits from this influence?
>It's the Marxist paradox. That any body of people could exist without a monetary influence on society is ridiculous.
This is literally meaningless. Are you seriously saying that the small amount of Marxists that do exist within universities have a very limited control over academic policy somehow translates in CONTROL OVER THE FUCKING GOVERNMENTAL POLICIES THAT MOVE TENS OF BILLIONS AROUND!
>There is literally Marxist propaganda in this day and age. Look at this thread.
PEOPLE THINKING DIFFERENTLY FROM ME IS PROPAGANDA! YOU'VE HEARD IT FIRST PEOPLE!
>Their cause is Academia
What does this mean? What is this mysterious realm that is academia, which apparently has compelte control of society thorugh arcane magic and mind control? Do you unironically believe in the Frankfurt school of witchcraft and wizardry?
>just look at how often the word Marxist or Neomarxist is thrown around in college.
This is again whitout any kind of meaning! Who is throwing what? Who is saying what to who?

Who are these marxists mr. /pol/tard? Who? I fucking whised we lived in your fantasy world, it would mean we have a fucking possibility of survivng the century as a species. Unfortunately we live in the relal world where money talks and intelligence shuts up.

>>13002289
Bruh Marxist intellectuals don’t control colleges you massive cuck

I think it's somewhat fair to call some of them "cultural marxists" at the same time it's definitely not the same as classical marxism.

>>13002331
I apologize for the abysmal quality of my writing. It's embarassing. I guess the IQ of the /pol/yp present is rubbing off me.

>>13002331

>goddamn marxist propaganda, thankfully i have jordan peterson to think for me

>>13002331
Indeed. So lets get started shall we :3

>control of what intellectual sphere, in what nmeasure and in which country, on which questions do this influence gets itself present? What institution profits from this influence?
The intellectual sphere. The sphere of which people talk about things and philosophies. Marxism, or neomarxism, or what have you, actually has monetary contributions from influences in prominent academic spheres.

The idea that there isn't some kind of Marxist plot is ridiculous. There is always one, and for some reason Marxism and Communism have been branded as this utilitarian paradise even when hundreds of millions of people have died.

>This is literally meaningless. Are you seriously saying that the small amount of Marxists that do exist within universities have a very limited control over academic policy somehow translates in CONTROL OVER THE FUCKING GOVERNMENTAL POLICIES THAT MOVE TENS OF BILLIONS AROUND!
Those governmental policies can have varying degrees of economic control. A utilitarian 'Marxist' colony or nation is essentially just a controlled materialist aristocracy obsessed over categorization. It is no surprise that in this atheist, unbelieving age, that various philosophies would start to rear their heads like Marxism.

Mark my words, I and many others, will make sure that another Marxist uprising doesnt happen again. What is needed is less greed: not more. Marxism is the greed of the masses.

>PEOPLE THINKING DIFFERENTLY FROM ME IS PROPAGANDA! YOU'VE HEARD IT FIRST PEOPLE!
You are obviously trying to exert an influence on others by posting about Marxism.
>What does this mean? What is this mysterious realm that is academia, which apparently has compelte control of society thorugh arcane magic and mind control? Do you unironically believe in the Frankfurt school of witchcraft and wizardry?
You don't think that in this day and age, when everyone is going to college, when people are paying thousands of dollars, you don't think that colleges and universities have societal control, or even people who manipulate society for their gain?

Then you are a fucking retard.

cont

>This is again whitout any kind of meaning! Who is throwing what? Who is saying what to who?
I remember in college some liberal arts Feminist book threw around Neomarxism like it was nothing. And I did not go to the best college.

Marxism, and Neomarxism, are trying to subvert the masses through colleges and universities. Once you have faith in anti-materialist philosophy, or spirituality, you won't need the cold, dark, unfeeling materialist of Marxism.

You have to understand faith is necessary in a society for it to function. You can't just make everyone do stuff. You shouldn't just wait around until you are told what to do. You should do things because they are right. That is the philosophy to have. And you don't need to change the government for that to happen.

>Bruh Marxist intellectuals don’t control colleges
I'm sure the other guy would even disagree with you on that one.

>>13002397

>And I did not go to the best college

yeah that's pretty clear.

>>13002397
I'm taking an ecology and sociology class and one of the books mention Marx in a pretty positive light and bashes capitalism. These marxists saying that there is no influence of marxism are just gaslighting

>>13000299
Sounds kind of dumb. You don't see a growing faith in socialism as a result of just exceptional individual failure but actual institutional retardation. "Personal development" has to happen in a society. If society isn't providing or blocking opportunities then you get problems. Socialism is a potential answer inasmuch as financial markets are.

>>13002182
>>13002172
You live in a nominal democracy anyhow, a true moral minority can't influence for long unless there's actual popular support. The public doesn't like academia, in fact they're outright anti-intellectual generally. Americans trust businessmen more then a bunch of eggheads. People seem to have difficultly understanding America is and always has been largly a leftist society. I don't mean sectarian duelling utopians but an actual high commitment to liberty and in most regards at the vanguard in the long arch of history. America isn't parasitic it promotes investment by transferring new productive capacities overseas falsifying the Leninist notion of imperialism. It's an open-maritime empire and has always successfully prevented the emergence of a reactionary land-power, specifically Eurasian, from disrupting the unfolding development of historic freedom. Donald Trump, contrary to popular misunderstandings, isn't an anti-globalist but perhaps one of the greatest internationalist statesmen of the 21st century and is taking a brave stand against rising reactionary Chinese trends.

>>13002415

Marx was very well read on ecology and was also one of the most important sociological thinkers ever. Were you expecting a book that says how awesome capitalism has been for the environment?

>>13002327
>invaded
They were invited. The US wanted fascism to be defeated intellectually as well as militarily and invited leftist academic excites to do it. Marxist’s played a major role, but they weren’t the only ones. Carnap is just as much at fault as Marcuse.

>>13002434
No but it's pretty clear there is an influence of Marx and Marxism in the universities.

>>13002436

> The US wanted fascism to be defeated intellectually as well as militarily and invited leftist academic excites to do it.

have you ever heard of south america?

>>13002434
>Marx was an expert on dis!

Lol :3

I expect to see Marxism mentioned in Feminism, Ecology, evolutionary biology, Economics, sociology, basically the entirety of college.

Does it mean that Marx was correct? No :3

>>13002441

so? people read marx at the university level. there is nothing problematic about that.

>>13002447
They could've picked anyone else who is an expert in those things though. I'm pretty sure Giovanni Gentile and Evola said some pretty profound things but the universities won't touch them because they don't want to promote fascist or quasi-fascist ideas

>>13002451

marx is literally one of the most important thinkers of all time. they're not gonna pick your stupid /lit/ cryptofascist butt buddies to read. marx's criticism extended from everything to ecology to psychology. julius evola is neither a sociologist nor an ecologist, why the fuck would you expect him in a class on either of those topics?

>>13002456
>Marx is popular in colleges so he must be right

I'd admit he is a great thinker, but Marxist Communism and historical materialism being correct? Don't think so buddy :3

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's correct.

Can't believe its come to this.

>>13000259
Individualism.

calling all strands of thought and institutions that obliquely analogize Marx's diagnosis of economic capital and its mechanisms "Marxism" is like blaming Augustine for the catholic pedophilia crisis or irish separatism

>>13001719
73% of all statistics are made up

>>13002395
>The sphere of which people talk about things and philosophies
Which is exactly? Academic papers? Academic courses? The internet? Give me something more solid here please, where exactly do these marxists hold so much power?
>Marxism, or neomarxism, or what have you
Well, yeah, let's just use words which we do not know the meaning of. Who cares really? The marxists I bet, the bastards.
> actually has monetary contributions from influences in prominent academic spheres.
Well, you know, generally professors are paid to do what they do. And if they happen to be marxists it is possible that they indeed are paid to do their job.
If you are implying, however, that marxists are somehow profiting from their imaginary control of academia, please provide examples of rich marxists.
>The idea that there isn't some kind of Marxist plot is ridiculous. There is always one
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won
The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
>A utilitarian 'Marxist' colony or nation is essentially just a controlled materialist aristocracy obsessed over categorization
Literally what? What does this mean? In what circumstance would this sentence have any sort of meaning?
>It is no surprise that in this atheist, unbelieving age, that various philosophies would start to rear their heads like Marxism.
Lol, we got too atheist and that's why the evil marxists are winning.
>Mark my words, I and many others, will make sure that another Marxist uprising doesnt happen again.
We are peaceful! I swear! We only want to protect freezed peaches and the delciate minds of our children from the evil league of evil and marxism incorporated(TM). It's the marxists that want to destroy our peaceful society! We must purge them! Peacefully!
Here we witness the fascist, reached the end of their nonsensical argument, decalring hsi willingness to bash heads in, because that's how profoundly removed is from reality.
>What is needed is less greed: not more. Marxism is the greed of the masses.
Ignorance is strength! Remember citizens!
>You are obviously trying to exert an influence on others by posting about Marxism.
Yeah that's called a discussion, not propaganda. I know the idea of peacefully debating something without preparing to shoot the guy in the face is foreign to you, but that's what normal people do.

>>13002462
uh aside from the idea of communism being "right" or "wrong," please state the issue with historical materialism

>>13002443
>have you ever heard of south america
The dictatorships propped up by US were not ideologically fascist in the same way the axis powers were. The US has also never been great at long-term planning. While it was toppling the governments with socialist representatives, the staff of UC Berkeley was training young people to march in the streets with Vietcong flags.

>>13002462

what the fuck are you talking about? teaching marx is not the same thing as saying that communism is awesome. do you understand what criticism is? marx's argumentation--not his conclusions--is why he's studied so widely.

>>13002443
There were no fascists in SA, and the US was about opposing Russia not opposing socialism per se. Thus Eurocommunism and so-called "postmodern neomarxism". The US was also happy to fund Islamists, fascists, conservatives, etc. Anything goes as long as you opposed Russia.

>>13002395
>>13002483
cont.
>You don't think that in this day and age, when everyone is going to college, when people are paying thousands of dollars, you don't think that colleges and universities have societal control, or even people who manipulate society for their gain?
Of course they are a means to an end, but who is the controller, I wonder? The Marxists? Who by championing the rights of the poor and working men, would have interest of spreading their message to as many people as possible thus maximizing their base, or the capitalists? Who are interested in commodifiying information to make as much money as possible?
Why believe in an impossibly complex and convoluted conspiracy, when the far easier and obvious explanation is that someone is making a shitload of money off the back of the poor and downtrodded?
>I remember in college some liberal arts Feminist book threw around Neomarxism like it was nothing. And I did not go to the best college.
Ehi, there are idiots on both sides. But I am not assuming you are representative of the average intelligence of fascist folk and neither should you.
>Marxism, and Neomarxism, are trying to subvert the masses through colleges and universities
So you are saying that exposing people to a different kind of world view is "corrupting the weak minds of the proletariat"?
>Once you have faith in anti-materialist philosophy, or spirituality, you won't need the cold, dark, unfeeling materialist of Marxism.
The idealist philosophy of fascism is far colder and crueler than anything marxism has ever said or done, in the real world or in the fantasy that you people think you live in.
>You have to understand faith is necessary in a society for it to function.
I don't see why.
>You can't just make everyone do stuff.
Well we kind of need to eat, don't you think?
>You shouldn't just wait around until you are told what to do.
Then why are you asking me to believe and have faith?
>You should do things because they are right. That is the philosophy to have. And you don't need to change the government for that to happen.
No, you should do things because they are in your interest. And that's why communism will win. The future is socialism or barbarism, bucko, and I know which side I prefer.

>>13002513
It's no different to how the US today finds Nazis under every rock yet funnels money to Nazis in Ukraine. Why? Because they oppose Russia. Or funnel money to Syrian jihadis while claiming to oppose terrorism. Why? To help Israel and restrict russian access to a warm water port in Syria.

>>13002505
>teaching marx is not the same thing as saying that communism is awesome.

It might as well be. Do you think teaching "far-right" ideas and analysis (especially without refutation) in college means you aren't promoting fascism?

>>13002433
You surely are cleverer than the other idiot, but your word salad is equalyl idiotic.
> Americans trust businessmen more then a bunch of eggheads
Trust is not what society is built upon. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, said once a clever marxist, and the history of the US is filled with the blood of countless workers killed by the state and corporate lackeys to suppress the masses and keep them compliant. This trust is skin deep, and as soon as the dream shatters, there will be blood once again, and we will once again know who rules us and how.
>People seem to have difficultly understanding America is and always has been largly a leftist society. I don't mean sectarian duelling utopians but an actual high commitment to liberty and in most regards at the vanguard in the long arch of history.
Sure as hell... On the forefront of slavery, women rights, worker's rights, healthcare, social security. Everything really. Oh wait, you are talking of utterly meaningless liberties that exist only on paper.
>America isn't parasitic it promotes investment by transferring new productive capacities overseas falsifying the Leninist notion of imperialism
Tell me you are not serious. Actually do tell me you are, so that I can laugh fucking harder.
> It's an open-maritime empire and has always successfully prevented the emergence of a reactionary land-power, specifically Eurasian, from disrupting the unfolding development of historic freedom.
Oh sure, The Soviets did not win the war, the Americans did! And with only 400.000 casualties over the 50 million total! What a fucking K/D ratio!
> Donald Trump, contrary to popular misunderstandings, isn't an anti-globalist but perhaps one of the greatest internationalist statesmen of the 21st century and is taking a brave stand against rising reactionary Chinese trends.
Please continue. You are making my fucking day.

>>13000245
If """leftists""" (colloquial term for marxists) are not """"SJWs"""" (colloquial term for postmodernists), then surely all you /lit/ supposed leftists can name me a single online leftist space that isn't completely controlled and populated by SJWs besides arguably left(y)pol and stupidpol. Surely it should be easy, right?

100 plus posts and still not a single name is provided

>>13002627
Eric Clanton

>>13002578
You're accidentally correct that America is the greatest world-historical evil to yet exist but calling America not leftist is simply an error that makes no sense outside of the Marxist-Leninist-(Maoist?) tradition. Indeed the US is evil precisely because of its leftism.

>>13002578
I reject a crude power perspective. Trust and consensus is what it's all about and crude power doesn't develop that and only creates problems. America isn't conservative and no one wants to embrace that, not the right or left, so they develop wrong interpretations and misunderstand history.
The Soviets only entered the war after Hitler went mad and broke the Stalin-Hitler pact and terminated the possibility of a viable single Eurasian land power from arising. China is the biggest threat today to the basic leftist principles globally and presents a danger to open development. It's all the cunning of reason.

>>13002647
You're working from the Anglo-American anarcho-liberal tradition and trying to argue with a Marxist-Leninist, it's not going anywhere.

>>13002599
>gives me examples except the ones I already discounted :^)
Facebook meme page? BreadTube are pretty liberal but aren't SJWs I guess.

there is always /lit/
>>13002642
Not a marxist and barely any evidence that he is a SJW.

>>13002483
Sorry about the delay in response time, I actually have a job unlike you.

>Which is exactly? Academic papers? Academic courses? The internet? Give me something more solid here please, where exactly do these marxists hold so much power?

Anywhere Neomarxism holds sway. Anywhere they have been tainted by his writings.

>Well, yeah, let's just use words which we do not know the meaning of. Who cares really? The marxists I bet, the bastards.

I can sardonically talk back to you too, but it doesn't mean I have any argument.

>Well, you know, generally professors are paid to do what they do. And if they happen to be marxists it is possible that they indeed are paid to do their job.
If you are implying, however, that marxists are somehow profiting from their imaginary control of academia, please provide examples of rich marxists.

Most Ivy League college philosophy professors. Who would've thunk. Philosophy has very little connection with the real world at times.

Anyway, just consider this: unlike the rest of us, Marxists don't have to utilize scientific data. Marxists don't have to rely on contributions from elsewhere, although they'd come in. We just had a presidential candidate consider himself a 'socialist' oddly enough, and I know that I was involved in a circle of people who did try to get Bernie elected.

What do you know? Almost as if the collective conscious is being brainwashed towards socialism.

We always look for an escape from the system we're in. If we look for outside answers from the thing we are currently participating in, sometimes it could lead to new Aristocracies being implemented.

Like, for example, how the French landowners assumed control in their hideous democratic 'revolution'.

Marxists have the advantage of being able to ignore centuries of failed attempts at their philosophy being implemented. Lucky them, I wish I could ignore actual facts like you. I wish I could just INJECT PEOPLE with a fervor or FEELING like Marxists do, instead of just accepting reality the way it is, and helping everyone along.

>What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won
The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free

I just wanted to point out the silly line, the ridiculous demarcation

>The enemy is poverty.

And how could this sort of thing ever cease to exist? The idea of 'poverty' is in and of itself more of a sociological concept than anything else. Yes, people live in squalor, but the idea of society is to make sure of a few things, namely that they have the ability to accrete capital or savings (that's kind of the name of the game here, buddy), or that their squalor, is, in part, their fault.

As society moves along, spiritually, you are actually hurting the system that is by worshipping some other idyllic system: only in heaven could something like pure Marxism exist.

As far as the other forms of socialism, you haven't heard of them either. I can tell you that Keynes was not a fan of Marxism either though.

>Literally what? What does this mean? In what circumstance would this sentence have any sort of meaning?
Vilfredo Pareto makes the same argument in his Manual of Political Economy. Great read, if you get the chance. Just showing you that others mirror these thoughts.

>Lol, we got too atheist and that's why the evil marxists are winning.
Not even going to tackle this one.

>We are peaceful! I swear! We only want to protect freezed peaches and the delciate minds of our children from the evil league of evil and marxism incorporated(TM). It's the marxists that want to destroy our peaceful society! We must purge them! Peacefully!
And yet Capitalist societies do not engage in genocide.

Although it is a conflation, Fascism, especially the Nazi worker's party, rose in a direct response to the rise of Communism. As did Stalinism, and various other regimes.

Just think about the possibility of this being a collective mistake. Indeed we see the result of this in China: their societal gap between the rich and the poor is far more vast than in America.

>Ignorance is strength! Remember citizens!
Nice argument

>Yeah that's called a discussion, not propaganda. I know the idea of peacefully debating something without preparing to shoot the guy in the face is foreign to you, but that's what normal people do.
It's fine, but just don't act like there isn't Marxist propaganda

>>13002663
No I'm not. I'm not referencing any immutable moral axioms or unchanged absolutes of any kind. I'm claiming history has a telos which can be understood. History has used Marxism-Leninism as it did Anglo liberalism. Those are just historical phenomena. I'm not saying "natural rights" mean history moves in a leftwards direction but that history appears to move in a leftwards direction. There's no "right" or "wrong" side to history, just necessary moments.

>>13002698
>And how could this sort of thing ever cease to exist? The idea of 'poverty' is in and of itself more of a sociological concept than anything else. Yes, people live in squalor, but the idea of society is to make sure of a few things, namely that they have the ability to accrete capital or savings (that's kind of the name of the game here, buddy), or that their squalor, is, in part, their fault.

>As society moves along, spiritually, you are actually hurting the system that is by worshipping some other idyllic system: only in heaven could something like pure Marxism exist.

What kind of retarded ass megachurch pastor thomas sowell shit are you on

>>13002553
>It might as well be. Do you think teaching "far-right" ideas and analysis (especially without refutation) in college means you aren't promoting fascism?

i have read tons of plato at the graduate level but have no desire to have a blind communal birth and child rearing system.

i also have no problem with professors expressing their agreement with marx, because i'm free to disagree and criticize them. that's the whole fucking point. are you that much of a little baby so that you need to be taught both sides so that you can look at them critically?

>>13002627
Mike Isaacson

>>13002719
>no I'm not
>history has a telos
Quintessentially British

>>13002645

>global sanctions program targeted at destroying unfriendly socialist nations
>totalitarian surveillance mechanism
>complete unification with economic system
>unlimited warfare due to military fetishism
>environmental enemy number one

sounds pretty left to me dude!

>>13002726

this is what happens when you read nothing but jordan peterson and fail to realize that unemployment is a structural feature of capitalism

>b-b-b-but it's not realistic!!!
why do idiots always think this is a good argument?

>>13002743
The US is left-wing by the standards of the French Revolution where the concept originated, you're just saying "non Marxist-Leninists aren't left wing!!!" Which as I said makes no sense outside of the Marxist framework, and almost everyone at the time of the French Revolution would identify the US today as a case of Jacobins gone berserk.

>>13000245
He asked for data, Peterson gave him data (30%, you can easily Google it and names anyway).

It's a premature fallacy to ask for specific name (although he even did that).

And the retards in the audience (people on your intellectual level) already started clapping and foaming at their mouths before he even gave Peterson a chance to answer because they projected their incapability to answer the question on Peterson, and even though Peterson gave him the data he wanted, that onions-induced malfunction has already become etched so deeply into their brains that Peterson's answer never even mattered.


Not a fan of Peterson but that rambling fat commie slob didn't make a single point and only the legions of Discord trannies that raid us since that day would disagree.

>>13002758
Why do people think it's relevant that something isn't realistic? are you a braindead fucking 5 year old

>>13002743
there are pessimistic cases to be made against dovish left causes, worker ownership of the means of the production, etc. etc., but it's so disappointing that right-wing intellectuals let alone schizophrenic channers seem completely unable to articulate any of it

>>13002760

oh yay the "classical liberalism" canard. if you think that economic totalitarianism is *left* of rousseau, i've got a bridge to sell you.

>>13002743
>surveillance
So like the USSR to the extent it was possible?
>environmental enemy no.1
That would be China.

The US and USSR are both examples of "rule by intelligence agency" anyway.

>>13002743
Liberalism is leftism you historically illiterate sack of shit

>>13001719
>>13000263
>the left that can be named is not the true left
and other famous taoist riddles

>>13002767
>Why do people think it's relevant that something isn't realistic? are you a braindead fucking 5 year old

because this is always--always--preceded by a distorted (or just flat out incorrect) understanding of what marx's theory of communism entailed.

>>13002760
every country without a monarch is left-wing by that definition. ayn rand is left-wing

>>13002771

the US has the highest emissions per capita of any country in the world.

>So like the USSR to the extent it was possible?
yes, just like the USSR. I'm not a fucking tankie.

>>13002770
So either
>the US isn't left-wing by the standard of 1789
>the world has moved sufficiently left that the left of 1789 is now the far right, while simultaneously almost all the talking points of the left first caught on in the Anglosphere and revolutionary materialism itself is quintessentially British
how can these be true at the same time.

>>13002789
so? communism was always about increasing production

>>13002784
Nobody fucking cares, every time you murderous idiots get any power whatsoever it's a fucking disaster and even most of you end up dead

>>13002736
How is he marxist or SJW? He just a regular antifa.

>>13002789
>anti soviet Marxism
You're taking a position created by US Intel agencies for you c. 1968 while shrieking about the evils of the US. You must be American or British.

>>13002792

no it isn't. marx literally and explicitly claimed that capitalism is responsible for the depletion of the two primordial sources of energy--the soil and labor--because it treats the world as both horn of plenty and a bottomless sink. marx criticized both aspects on ultimately vindicated ecological grounds.

>>13002793
i'm not a marxist.

>>13002798
i'm not a marxist.

>>13002798
Who were Rosa Luxemburg, revisionists or the Mensheviks?

>>13002807
I dont care if youre a marxist, I dont care a single fucking bit about what some 19th century German autist said

The only relevant thing is what happens when people who call themselves Marxists get power

>>13002790

why are you so insistent on this patently false dilemma? global capitalism has reshaped the possibilities of political philosophy. there is no way to reconcile french classical liberalism with the administration of economic totalitarianism. that liberalism has not "become" the far right, but its possibilities have been exhausted at least by the industrial revolution. it would be great if we lived in a predominantly agrarian society with a homogenous population, because then i could buy into this false dichotomy, but i can't.

>>13002790
the left right spectrum is just shorthand you fucking dunce, nobody wants to aggregate 100 thousand superhyphenated political tendencies any time they talk about politics. The popular left and right wing (as in the parties with actual power and ideological thrall) in the current zeitgeist are all liberal. If you want to call Mike Pence left-wing because he's not a monarchist, go ahead, the only person you're confusing is yourself

>>13000245
Karl Marx

>>13002811
Idiots.

>>13002828
>is just shorthand you fucking dunce, nobody wants to aggregate 100 thousand superhyphenated political tendencies any time they talk about politics. The popular left and right wing (as in the parties with actual power and ideological thrall) in the current zeitgeist are all liberal. If you want to call Mike Pence left-wing because he's not a monarchist, go ahead, the only person you're confusing is

mike pence is basically voltaire according to this guy

>>13002813
What if I told you classical liberalism is the root of economic totalitarianism?

>>13002832
Not an argument :^)

>>13002835
he's right in that they're both gay

>>13002795
Just read his twitter feed

>>13002847
I did and it was dog tweets. Stop grasping at straws.

>>13002887
Yea that's all it was. Stop gaslighting

>>13002925
You mean him whining about the Democrats? Again nothing overtly marxist or SJW about it.

>Stop gaslighting
Oh please this pomo marxist shit has been one big gaslighting operation.