/lit/ - Literature

>>12992449
god says

rigidbreakfastnapflaproomydonateappliancehandbreedstartsubtractclimbmelodicchargeapatheticconsendoctordropkittenscamshatterdangerousnecessarysummerrely

>>12992480
oh god, you so enigmatic *bats eyelashes* I wish I could understand you

>>12992489
Cia nigger detected. It's fucking algebra, nigger

>>12992449
>copes
End this reddit meme

>>12992508
it's 2019, all memes are reddit memes

>>12992449
>*moves a few neurons around*
>suddenly no more god
you probably believe in freewill too, don't you?

>>12992575
>atheism is caused by brain damage

>>12992575
Smashing the brain also weakens belief in god.

I was pretty suicidal until I converted to Christianity. I’m not the type of guy that goes around smiling, that’s just not my personality, but I’m definitely happier now no matter what I’m doing

>>12992590
not what is being said

>>12992611
That's good. Just don't rub it into your kids' faces like many other christians do.

>>12992611
>my religion is literally my way of coping with existence
>it's true because it makes me happy
pretty convincing, rational reason you've got there

>>12992575
Imagine if it were used in immigrants. Non-religious lobotomized drones.

>>12992621
>It's good you are faithful, but don't tell your children the absolute truth of salvation

>>12992624
>implying that’s a bad thing
>implying I implied that

>>12992637
Ouch, you've got me there.
Now I need to drink my onions.

>>12992637
>i believe in god
>i was forced to believe this as a child but i really believe in god i promise

>>12992688
You could use that same argument for literally anything. You just assume God doesn’t exist, so you think your words have weight. Fact is, theists are happier than atheists. Make fun of me all you want

>>12992697
the only real christians converted in adulthood. if you were born in bangladesh you'd be muslim sorry bucko

I´M GONNA SAY IT

>>12992718
I converted when I was 18, but that doesn’t make me more Christian than the average Christian. I actually wish I was raised Christian. Then, if I rejected it later on, I could simply quit. I’ll be raising my children as Christian until they’re 18, and after that, they can decide what they want to believe

>>12992590
Atheism is caused by healthier functioning of the brain my dude. It's literally just under the title.

>>12992750

>>12992449
Religion is the ultimate cope.
Tell me: if there is a god and our purpose is to carry out his will, then how is this any less arbitrary than carrying out our own will?

>>12992697

>>12992759
>external deactivation of one of the brain's evolved faculties constitutes healthy functioning
This is the power of atheism in 2019

>>12992637
>>12992611
>>12992697
>>12992449
The only reason Christians become happier after "converting" is because it effectively removes all responsibility from them, and as we all know, responsibility is proportional to power. While Christians go out of their way to remove all responsibility from themselves, the great men of the future will do the exact opposite and become gods themselves.

>>12992789
it's cute when christcucks try to talk like they know shit about science

hi thread

>>12992806
What was your major?

>>12992806
>haha dude did you even read the first line of the article? lmao try knowing science like me idiot

>>12992789
>Being a literal robot
>Existing to only serve a jew god
>Being taken advantage of by the church
Sounds pretty cucked to me.

>>12992590
>being physically incapable of processing threats is healthy brain functioning
it really is a mental illness with you guys huh

>>12992767
We carry out God’s will in almost everything we do. But the only way we can be happy in the afterlife is if we accept God. Otherwise you’ll have nothing to cling to, burning with desires that will never be met. God’s will and our will can perfectly align, or you can reject God and suffer.

>>12992819
>Nothing matters, man, there’s no meaning to anything, haha, but at least I’m not a cuck!

>>12992829
This is needed

>>12992836
>finds out nothing means anything
>you could literally dedicate your life and its meaning to anything
>Choose to be a cuck
if that's what you want then godspeed anon.

>>12992829
>But the only way we can be happy in the afterlife is if we accept God
>>12992798

>>12992845
This is a categorical error

>>12992750
A lot of good believing in Jewish skydaddy YHWH did this nigger lmao.

>>12992849
>you could literally dedicate your life and its meaning to anything
>meaning
..oh sweetie >>12992449

>>12992845
The religion that’s most difficult to fake is clearly Christianity

>>12992845
>can’t actually respond to him, better change the topic and use an unrelated atheist argument against him!

>>12992845
there have been hundreds of political beliefs so far but your is actually true
the othere are silly made up nonsense
But not yours ,Yours is real .

>>12992575
How delusionally retarded do you have to be to believe in anything resembling free will when your god knows everything?

>>12992806
I'm an atheist but many scientists are christcucks actually, not the retards on this board, but there are a decent chunk of 'em.

>>12992880
>implying heaven didnt need the worlds best programmer

>>12992900
>pic
The primary purpose of prayer is to strengthen your relationship with God, improve your faith, and be thankful. Prayers are meant more for your spiritual blessings, not material ones. Just go ahead and delete that pic because you don’t ever need to use it again

>>12992900
>your
?

>>12992900
Imagine being such a bugman that you are unable to see anything in spirituality beyond material acquisition

>>12992917
Yet Christ explicitly said to ask the Father for things you desire, so...

>>12992845
>Literally just a logical fallacy
Atheist propaganda, everyone

>>12992845
I can't believe how much Gervais repeats this ridiculous argument

>>12992449
not literature

>>12992973
not that guy but which one

>>12992970
Give the verse

>>12992979
Fallacy of division, which assumes that because part of something (in this case religion) is false the entire premise is false

>>12992986
To add on to yours, it also assumes that every religion is equally probable.

>>12992767
>how is this any less arbitrary than carrying out our own will
Because God is love, we are not.

>>12992624
If we assume that life has meaning (which I think is self-evident), then it's a perfectly rationally step to see happiness as an indicator of truth.

>>12992806
>christcucks dont know shit about science

>>12993012
>If we assume that life has meaning (which I think is self-evident
lmao

>that pic
LMAO

>>12992798
What is this bullshit? Everything is valid for atheists so there's no responsibility while Christians are called to not sin.

sad that white people co-opted a jew deity
the absolute state of white culture

>>12992449
So unless reality has been created specifically for you, little anon, by a single, transcendent, omnipotent, anthropomorphic Personality, the whole enterprise of existence becomes meaningless? Even though this all-loving Personality doesn't outwardly appear to perform even a single explicit act for a person that would improve their living situation (ex. curing them of a horrible condition)?

Have you even heard of pantheism, and other theologies? I feel like Christianity tends to attract the more egocentric and shallow-minded of society, who think that unless there is an eternal heaven to which their decisions will lead them to after this brief lifetime (and everyone they don't like goes to a chamber of permanent torment, lol), that they are "special" and "chosen" and "saved" (spiritual elitism, essentially, which is an oxymoron), and that all of reality literally revolves around you (and your Divine right to tell homosexuals they are terrible people and going to burn in hell, lol). And that ultimately leads to posts like these ones, which are the greatest non-sequiters I have ever heard of.

>>12992798
Christianity places the ultimate responsibility on you in that all your actions are judged by God. Atheists are the ones living without responsibility

>>12993037
oh boy he SEETHIN

>>12992986
>>12993007
To me it just seems to be saying that there's many unfalsifiable views that contradict each other, with no way to know which one is true (if any) and there's no way to gauge the probability of each one, so believing in any or one over another is an arbitrary choice

>>12992767
Because God is perfect, not a flawed human being

Not a single atheist ITT has given a reason why he finds life meaningful, but has simply started attacking God and His followers instead.

>>12993056
see
>>12992892

>>12992879
>>12992892
>>12992897
>>12992899
Instead of resorting to whataboutism, actually try to refute the made statement.

>>12993073
Not all gods are equally probable, that statement does literally nothing to discredit Christianity

>>12993068
I'm not atheist but I personally find life meaningful because as far as I believe, I am the universe experience itself in a finite instantiation, and my purpose here is to grow on my eternal spiritual journey, and to love others and help them to do the same. Life is a gift in itself, and intrinsically meaningful to the one who uncovers their true nature and role within it.

Name one specific teaching of Jesus which you think is incorrect or immoral

>>12993073
Mostly permissible post, but dear God (blessed is his name), relegate your Ricky Gervais quotes to reddit.com

>>12993073
What's the point, really? We could give you arguments such as the historicity of Jesus but you would deny it all. That's basically casting pearls before swine.

>>12993090
>and my purpose here is to grow on my eternal spiritual journey, and to love others and help them to do the same.
How do you know your purpose isn’t to kill your self? That’s an experience, just the same

>>12993068
Literally reading books nigga. Good lit & music makes life worth living

>>12993090
>Life is a gift in itself, and intrinsically meaningful
>I personally find life meaningful because as far as I believe
You literally just contradicted yourself. What do you believe? It can't be both relative/personal and objective at the same time. This is not a question framed at religious belief by the way

>>12993109
Basing your life on sensual pleasures is for the animal.

>>12993085
What makes angry ol' Yahweh from the Old Testament anything more probable as a literal reality compared to a fictional, mythological character identical to those from any other culture?

>>12993109
Books and Literature are temporal pleasures that lead to a cycle of longing that will never be satisfied. Not only do these things not make you happy, they are making you more sad.

>>12993085
Probability is not an argument if the probability distribution is not known. What makes christianity more probable anyway than for example hinduism? The statement that there is only one god? What makes it then more probable than for example Islam or Judaism?
And then, what branch of Christianity got it all right? Orthodoxs, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons?
>>12993098
I intentionally use the picture to provoke.

>>12993143
>and then, what branch of Christianity got it all right? Orthodoxs, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons?
well Protestants and Mormons aren't Christians so you can cross them out.

>>12993101
Muslims will claim the historicity of Mohammed.
Buddhists will claim the historicity of Buddha.
Jews will claim the historicity of Moses and Abraham.
What exactly makes Christianity more probable?

>>12992449
guys what do i do if my brain literally is not allowing me to believe in god

i want to but its accepting none of these arguments

>>12993149
I'm not going into that petty war. From my own protestant point of view, catholics are anti-christian heretics.

>>12993153
Have you read the Bible?

>>12993103
That is what I "believe" my objective purpose is, just like you "believe" God to objectively exist, and your purpose to follow Him, but don't know this without doubt.

>>12993118
I was speaking to my beliefs in both statements there, I simply omitted the word the second time. I believe reality is intrinsically meaningful, and that all of us are spiritual beings on a long spiritual journey, but I won't call it "certain knowledge".

>>12993159
So in other words you have been arguing against Christianity from a protestant perspective. Also who said I'm a Catholic?

>>12993153
>guys what do i do if my brain literally is not allowing me to believe in god
be thankful you aren't so monumentally retarded that the idea of god appeals to you

next step is whatever you want. maybe read some epicurean lit or Nietzsche if you still feel "philosophical" angst

>>12993152
Christ resurrected and there were hundreds of witnesses. Apostles were almost all martyred because they refused to deny Jesus. Plus a bunch of other things.

>>12993153

>>12993170
Explain why you think the idea of God is retarded

>>12992759
>healthier
On what criteria? Atheism seems to be a hindrance to the production of functional and fertile offspring, and if we go by that study, functional societies as well.

>>12993124
If books are "sensual pleasures", so is all of the canonical Christian literature - the Old Testament, the New Testament, anything written by any famous Christian theologian or saint. If music is too, then so are all Christian hymns and songs ever made and ever to be made.

Christianity seems to be founded upon sensual pleasures, then. And if they're "for the animal", Christianity must be too.

>>12993161
not all of it but a good chunk. whenever i read it i always get really caught up on interpretation

>>12993174
ill try this out thanks

>>12992575
>you probably believe in [insert position I disdain] too, don't you?
What's the ranking of beliefs that are originated on the underlying structure of the Universe at large? You atheists are brainlets. All of you.

>>12993170
>be thankful you aren't so monumentally retarded that the idea of god appeals to you
I always wonder what makes the atheist so irrationally angry when all atheism does is deny and affirm nothing. Why get so angry when you believe that God doesn't affect you and he is of no consequence?

>>12993169
>Mistaking an ad rem argument for an ad hominem argument.
I've met several protestant/anglican people that did not consider Catholicism to be a part of Christianity. What now is the difference between their statement and your statement?
There's a certain reason as to why it is called belief and not knowledge. Believing in Jesus, believing in god, despite knowing that you can't obviously prove their existence, is what defines (protestant) christianity. So you claiming that there certainly is a christian god makes you in fact anti-christian.

>>12993170
ill try this out as well, epicurus is after all very based

>>12993188
Those are means to an end, though. And that end is transcendental.

>>12993179
Because Naturalism is literally the most coherent system and all of the sciences and philosophies of mind are based on it?

>>12993196
Again, I'm not sure why you are talking about Catholicism, is this some Protestant defense mechanism? I did not mention anything of it.

Atheism and science are incompatible. Really atheism can account for being. Even if you somehow resolved that problem you would still have to justify why everything isn't some random coincidence

>>12993201
[citation needed]

the saddest cope in existence is probably believing in theism desu. get over it, there isn't some mystical protector in the sky that makes moral rules out of nothing; if anything, something created the universe and then either died, fucked off, or decided to just watch

>>12993216
*Cant account for being

>>1299320
> Protestant defense mechanism
Hurrr durrr.

>>12993200
Shakespeare isn't transcendent? What about Debussy?

>>12993224
Why do you think that?

>>12993236
That's a question I should have asked to you who only believes in the existence of the sublunary.

>>12993224
No Christian educated in theology believes that God is physically situated somewhere in the sky.

>>12993224
Why did God create everything if not for love? And if there is love there is justice. Justice is to make himself be known by us.

>>12992449
I don't require meaning to not kill myself or enjoy life. Even if I were a theist, I wouldn't choose knockoff Judaism.

>>12993236
>debussy is transcendent
So this is the power of your average /lit/ poster

>>12993274
I don't see how anyone could enjoy life with how meaningless all things temporal are. This is not even an attack on you, I'm just genuinely wondering how someone can fail to realize how pointless everything is that is under the sun. There is far more pain than joy even in the happiest of men

>>12992449
Nothing is sadder than people who think that something is lost when they realize life has no meaning

>>12993274
Christianity is fulfilled Judaism

>>12993250
I don't believe exclusively in the "sublunary", but you clearly believe that only religious literature and art can be transcendental, when I personally find Shakespeare a more transcendent, enriching experience than anything I've read in religious writings. Anyone can write of transcendent realities - far greater genius is needed to create a work that is a transcendent reality in-itself, without the easy appeal towards "God" and any related concepts that religious literature falls back on, and does the task for them.

>>12993352
>transcendent atheism

rly m8?

>>12993149
defend this.
I'm a non-denomination Christian and I'm sick to death of pointless bickering and religious thinking. (Religious as opposed to spiritual.)

>>12993285
Not him and I can see your point to some degree, but if you believe in theism, you have to believe that all of these "purposeless" realities were created by the Supremely Purposeful Creator, and answer why he made all these experiences if they were ultimately unsatisfactory and not worth partaking in? Why couldn't he have made a more meaningful, rewarding experience for his creations to partake in?

>2019
>not being a pantheist
im disappointed to be quiet honest

>>12993372
Shakespeare is more transcendent than anything the Gospels could ever dream of being, in my humble opinion. If him and his works are "atheistic", then I guess atheism can indeed be quite transcendent. That said, I'm unhappy when Christians think the negation of theism automatically means "atheism/naturalism", when you could still believe in a host of theologies like pantheism and so on, which I personally do. Transcendence isn't limited to a supra-universal Personality who created everything in reality for the sake of your personal soul.

>>12993416
I legitimately don't know why people like Shakespeare, religious topics aside. There is literally nothing special about him besides for his manipulation of language. In the realm of metaphysics, his works are of no value and solely limited to the gross manifestation of the individual.

>>12993416
Sorry, man. I thought you were atheistic.

>>12993390
I am, though. Alan Watts put me onto it, and I haven't looked back since. Also very fitting in light of the current "is consciousness emergent or fundamental" debate going on in the sciences, since if the latter is true, pantheism is basically correct, even though technically things like panentheism could be too.

>>12993285
Imagine that by some cosmic coincidence the objective purpose of all living things is making ISO 27668 gel pens. The all-powerful, all seeing Gel pen god is pretty much absent but it's still your moral imperative to make ISO 27668 gel pens. Would this green tea, that I'm currently drinking, be less or more enjoyable because it doesn't align with the "objective" of existence?

Yes, I'm aware that I will die, my friends and family, my society, my civilization, the human race and probably the universe too. From dust to dust and all that. But this tea or my the smile of my lil' niece aren't affected in any way. I grew up agnostic so that probably makes my acceptance of meaningless easier.

Excuse my English.

>>12993439
You have absolutely no understanding of the eastern doctrines if you think they are pantheistic and the fact you mention alan watts I wonder if you are even baiting. Science, moreover, cannot provide anything of metaphysical value since metaphysics are beyond the temporal order which science is relegated to.

>>12993464
I never mentioned the Eastern doctrines, though? I mentioned Alan Watts, and no I'm not "baiting". The concept of being the "universe experiencing itself" is one I consider immensely profound, and wish I'd encountered sooner. And metaphysics without any empirical grounding to itself is worthless - we may as well conjecture about invisible fairies who will reward you with an unknowable afterlife if you're good during this one, etc etc etc - which is basically what religions do. Science at least attempts to humbly understand reality, unlike religion which already claims to know its highest truths.

>>12992845
>Taking anything a television personality says seriously

>>12993501
Why are you interested in alan watts if you deny metaphysics. Pantheism is ultimately a metaphysical tradition and is thus beyond the realm of empiricism. You cannot base the lower and the high things from which they proceed.

>>12992829
>burning with desires
Ah, I've seen this modern retcon of the Christian conception of Hell before. No longer a "lake of fire", but a "lake of unfulfilled desires" now.

>>12992508
that's not where that comes from lol

>atheist
>peace and rest after death, no more bother and suffering
>xtian
>going to hell because i'm an irredeemable piece of shit
gee golly gee which do i pick

>>12993523
That idea of hell is directly from Saint Isaac the Syrian. You clearly are not particularly familiar with metaphysical conceptions of hell in the Christian tradition.

>>12992907
a very low percentage of scientists are religious

>>12993390
I don't understand the point of pantheism

>>12993530
that just furthers OP's point of why haven't you killed yourself yet

>>12992449
t. gnostic

>>12993073
Ha, joke's on you. I'm a Perennialist. What now, nigger?

>>12993501
Why not just believe you are God experiencing himself, that's what I do

>>12993552
Perennialism is just being a religion whore.

>>12993501
Metaphysics is inherently unempirical. Physical investigation cannot provide any information on what is above the physical

>>12993515
I don't "deny" metaphysics, but to the degree it cannot connect with empirical data is the extent to which I consider it possibly unworthy of following. I know that theoretical matters involve that (ex. discussions of numbers), but if we're speaking of realities that we ourselves know of - consciousness, emotions, time, the mind, etc - I'd like our understandings to be pursued by that scientific front, which I do believe can answer questions like "does consciousness continue after death"? and so on. I don't believe in empiricism, meaning "only empirical realities", but I try to understand all realities that can possibly examined empirically by virtue of scientific findings. I believe in the afterlife, for example, partly on the basis of my own reasoning and also on what I've heard about NDE's and so on in the scientific community. What it consists of I'm not yet sure, nor is anyone, but that it exists is something I have belief of, and this was "through science" rather than "blind belief" like religions ask of you.

>>12993523
Nowhere in the Bible is Hell described as a fiery lake where you are eternally tortured by demons. Hell is a state of complete separation from God

>>12993530
>if I deny Hell’s existence, it can’t be real

>>12993530
But all you need to do to not go to hell is sincerely accept Christ

>>12993533
My bad, but isn't the Biblical position on the matter more sound? And where does such a framing of Hell occur within the canonical scriptures?

>>12993564
retard

>>12993610
slut

>>12993073
The existence of God and his identity is two separate questions. Gervais collapses them into one, effectively dismissing the validity of classical theism out of hand, thus implying that God's existence is only as valid as the truth of human religions. It's a deceitful argument, and as a philosophy graduate, Gervais is being wilfully ignorant by putting it forward.

>>12993092
Can an atheist answer this?

>>12993571
In some sense, but that doesn't mean that "we can just make up anything we want and nobody can tell us it isn't true". If you claim that consciousness (which could be counted as "unempirical") is not produced by the body, and outlives it - then there are ways to empirically investigate this claim. And only after empirically validating it, can we have any confidence in our position, that differs from blind conviction, or even reasoned speculation. Similarly, the mind-body problem is a major one. If you want to take the position that the mind is not the brain, and is something relatively "immaterial", this is something not to be held to on the basis of belief, but on the basis of verification, which comes to us through empirical findings. I'm not interested in taking arbitrary gambles between religions and their afterlife-systems, which so many are willing to do - I only want to speak on matters that I myself have a ground to speak on, and am not simply repeating something I read in an external book of a particular culture.

>>12992449
>christians coping with strawmen after getting destroyed by ricky gervais of all people
kek sorry but "you can't fake christianity!!!" isn't an argument as to why your unfalsifiable claims are any more plausible than any others

>>12993591
>Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Matthew 25:41

What does this mean, then?

>>12993679
The fire is eternal, that doesn't mean souls stay in it eternally, they are just destroyed

>>12993677
It’s the most reasonable of all religions. And it’s more rational to have faith than to be an atheist

>>12993696
annihilationism-anon pls go

>>12992575
Basically "If we fuck up your brain you'll be just like we want you to be"

>>12993548
life is fun, why would you kill yourself

>thread about christianity and atheism
>is filled with brain-dead retards

like pottery

>>12993752
>peace and rest after death, no more bother and suffering
keep coping

>>12993754
the thread wasnt about christianity
atheists just deflected because they couldn't justify their own existence

>>12993677
Bringing falsiability to a metaphysics discussion is stupid because it is by itself unfalsifiable. Claiming atheism is true is also unfalsifiable.
You just brought an impasse that arrives anywhere.

>>12992575
>lol we cut out your tongue and you still believe food has flavour? talk about cope! xD

>>12993637
But which Christian is arguing for any kind of Deism or "generic theism"? All of them argue for their specific, scriptural conception of said Deity, and do the same for all contexts - Intelligent Design-ers/Creationists aren't arguing for there being a "transcendent Personality beyond spacetime who made everything here, and all biological lifeforms", with no further assertions as to their nature - they are plainly arguing for the Christian conception of God as being literally true of reality, including Jesus somehow being the "son" of said Personality. You won't find any of them to say "there is a non-cultural God who created everything here and is the objective moral-lawgiver, but also homosexuality is totally fine and doesn't violate his will", for example.

So how is Gervais invalid in connecting the Judeo-Christian cultural model of God with the overall, abstract concept of reality being made by a Deity, if that's exactly what virtually all Christians do when it comes down to it, and he's only responding to those same people?

>>12993782
Even if Christians argue for more than generic theism, the questions remain distinct.

>>12993624
Ask me how I know you haven't read anything on Perennialism/Traditionalism.

>>12993548
Well, I think about it every day but I know my own brain is just ill and trying to kill me so I don't.
>>12993605
If it's real, i'm going to hell whether i believe or not, but if i don't believe i have slightly less anxiety about being a terrible person.
>>12993608
i don't think so.

>>12993785
That's fair, I agree with you. But he still makes a point by simply phrasing the problem as he did, helping pop the short-sighted bubbles of theistic believers who haven't often thought about how many other countless people have believed in sdifferent metaphysical realities before, while similarly believing them to be true. And Christians haven't really bridged the deism/theism gap themselves either, in my experience - they often leap over it as if it were never there, hence why someone like Gervais would be able to combine both into one and not be accused of "strawmanning" his audience.

>>12993776
>Claiming atheism is true is also unfalsifiable.
sure, but i never claimed it was or that i was an atheist

there's no reason to believe in one unfalsifiable claim over another unless, say in the case of mormonism, it's attached to other immediately preposterous claims about there being elephants or plants in north america long before they were introduced

>>12993794
How?

>>12993777
Flavour is literally just reactions from taste receptors by chemicals present in what we eat. Likewise, if faith can be affected by simple minor eletromagnetic phenomena, then the abstract, transcendental "connection" with God that 99% of religions claim isn't some magical, transcedental connection but simple a result of chemical reactions and pushing towards the physicalist interpretation of reality.

>>12993696
So how is this "permanent destruction of souls" in a "chamber of eternal fire" even remotely similar to the concept of "burning with unfulfilled desires" and simply being "separate from God"? Those seem very different to me.

>>12993857
>haha stabbed your eyes and you still think the world beyond your head exists? what a cuck xd

>>12993824
See >>12993101
Also, doesn't it bother you that you accepted defeat from Ricky Gervais?

>>12993839
Traditionalists/Perennialists are not religious tourists as you suggest. They believe you should stick to practicing one religion, but acknowledge the wisdom each one provides to contemplate the esoteric doctrine they all share.

>>12993866
I'm not the anon that said hell is burning desire, but I think complete non-existence is the only way you can truly be completely separated from God. All existence is supported by God, any form of existence is in some way good. God is ultimate existence, all existence partakes of God's attribute of ultimate existence even if it is in the lowest form. Complete separation from God means you no longer have any of the aspects of God in any degree, meaning you cannot exist

>>12993874
Meant to>>12993828

>>12993857
Brain damage affects your thinking. You are not just your thinking process, you are a soul which exists above rational thought

>>12993897
That's relativistic bullshit. I wonder how they can promote tradition if their basis is subjectivism.

>>12992845
>cultures from around the world have reached nearly the same conclusions
> hurr durr thats besides the point

get a load of this moron.

>>12993921
You can think you're right without thinking everyone else is absolutely wrong about everything

>>12993820
How do you know your brain is ill and hasn't just realized an ultimate truth to which everyone else has been blinded?

>>12993917
And yet your soul is beneath the thinking process when comes to both thinking itself and your behaviour, which would therefore be determinist and bound by physicalism? What about free will, then?

>>12993820
Why not try to become less of a terrible person? Self improvement isn't supposed to be comfortable

>>12993921
Manifestation is relative, but there is only one absolute truth.

>>12993930
Which same conclusions? Outside abrahamic faiths, most don't agree with the notion that gods are explicit good or Good or that they are truly absolute, for most part.

>>12993931
And just because something is right on a certain matter doesn't make it true. A featherless chicken isn't a man.
Truth needs objectivity, so only one religion must be true.

>>12993945
If a bad person larps as a good person for his own benefit, he doesn't become a good person. i don't think being a good person is even possible under christianity, because you're just doing it to get into heaven and save your own ass. helping an old lady cross the street isn't some magnanimous deed if you have a gun trained at your head forcing you to the whole time. the christian faith removes the possibility of anyone becoming a sincerely good person for its own sake and turns spirituality into a shopping mall.
but it's the same for all religions so don't worry

>>12993073
I see you tried to ignore me
>>12992973

>>12993174
BASED PASCAL POSTER

>>12992449
>feeling giddy
>make the 27748826178 thread saying atheist are dumb,mental gymnastics etc etc
>186 replies 100 or more so being angry atheist trying to disprove something they already believe is disproven
>lul at the shit fest
well played op well played, ive been up and down both roads and took notice of spirituality whether i believe it or not the respect stands.

Anyways based op

Virtue is a habit, what starts as a LARP or something done out if fear of punishment will eventually become true virtue if you stay at it long enough

>>12993976
based st bernard of clairvaux

>>12993959
Self-contradicting religions don't arrive at any truth. The logical outcome of your reasoning is that truth is unattainable.

>Imagine being atheist and claiming religion or god doesn't exist when atheism in-itself is a religion.
>Imagine seething out of every pore in your body because you can't truly prove whether christ does or does not exist
>imagine being the orthodox religion of the shitty culture-less world of modernity
>imagine

>>12994000
desu being a believer or not are equally agonising, since neither side can prove their case definitely, only reasonably well

in the end, you have to decide whether life without God is worth it

>>12993976
Truth cannot be born from a lie no moreso than a castle can be built on a foundation of sand.
I may be a bad person but at least I don't pretend otherwise. What's the greater sin?

>>12994096
Do you think it is even become a better person? If you can, how do you start?

God is none of my concern, I enjoy my life. Why would an abstract being beyond my comprehensions existence, or non existence have any sway over me?

>>12994129
I don't think it's possible to become a good person if your motivation is to gain some reward.
if there were some other motivation that was sincere and selfless, maybe. but not just because god hangs a doggy-treat over your head.

>>12993068
But why should it have meaning? If there is no God and conscious life is all but the result of an innumerable series of accidents, life is thus meaningless. Yet why is this relevant? Life then is then full of limitless potentiality and we can go on a find some manifestation that is to our liking or perhaps float along til death.

>>12992449
Also how is religion not the obvious cope? What kind of inversion is this even?

>>12994155
What if a Christian wants to be a good person because they want to be more like God? Is that a sincere reason to want to be good?

>>12992449
>go to library
>theres a separate section for christian "philosophy"

>>12994165
is god a good being, to begin with?
would you give birth to a child if the child's life was absolutely assured to be pure misery and suffering? Would you smile at the child and tell him you love him, but he must be a good boy, while he writhes on the floor in terror and agony?

>>12993872
descartes pls

>>12992449
Christian Pill
> one of the strongest drugs of all time

highs:
- mania
- everything feels to have meaning
- a sense of purpose and belongingness
- a strong boost in self-esteem
- can cure depression

side effects:
- a decrease in IQ, natural mental critics are destroyed by this drug
Addicts call this process as "faith", this high prevents the brain to use logic.
- delusions of grandeur
- delusions of immortality
- paranoia
- dependence of an imaginary uber friend
- distress and anxiety (due to the paranoia of demons and the belief of going to hell)

Trivias:
- Severe addicts of the Christian pill are the best employees to hire.
- Severe addicts will do everything to please their imaginary uber friend.
- Severe addicts will just laugh at this post.

>>12994173
if they dont do that for every section and sub-category of philosophy then your library is shit

>>12994255
>boosts self-esteem, cures depression
tempting

>>12992449
Are you really trying to pass off the fact that apparently your life is so devoid of happiness or any positive stimuli that the only thing that stops you from killing yourself is your belief that a magical sky deity that's part of a self-contradictory story book with no historical basis in reality will hurt you if you do as evidence that you're less deluded than people who don't share that exact same thought process?

>>12994297
worked in my case

>>12994255
tips

>>12993018
> LMAO at the dude who hypothesised the big bang

um, sir

>>12993416
Sweaty, Shakespeare was Catholic

>>12994255
Call it the American Evangelical pill and I’ll agree.

>>12992449
anyone who says he wouldn't firmy kiss a cute eastern european seminarian at first given opportunity is a heretic - simple as that.

Non-religious people defend their non-position so vociferously because they fear they might be missing out, that the joke is on them.

>>12992449
The only sad cope is those who become emotional regarding the topic of religion. To firmly believe in the existence of not just "God" (theism or deism, etc.) which so many are fond of saying, disingenuously, but in believing in YHWH, Allah, Jesus as divine, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahman, Baal, El, Odin, etc. as a god. Believing in scriptures which without fail create a priest-class whose incentive is to continue existing which requires believers in said scripture, to truly believe that not only was there a creator for all of this (now there are two problems: the creation of this existence and the creation of the creator, where did either come from?) but that he/she/it waited around for countless years to reach in and "inspire" the minds of some homo sapians to write mythological (and later, religious) texts, first the Sumerians, followed by rest of the Mesopotamians, followed by the rest of the Ancient Near East, followed by the Indus Valley civilization followed by the Chinese and Zoroastrians/Persians - mind you minor sects and peoples with their own texts and cultures are littered in between these behemoths, just look at a timeline of religious texts to see just how many there were - finally around the 9th or so (I'm being very generous to the Jewish people here) the Tanakh was written followed by the Torah at a later date, including various stories from their neighbors who predate them: ex. the Epic of Gilgamesh's flood myth and the story of Noah (renamed), not to mention Mesopotamian proverbs in general, and this is just the most known issues, the issues keep piling on if you read through the religions that predate your respective religion. Finally in around 33 CE (again, being very generous here), the Early Christians begin to be a thing, their writings a continuation on and fulfillment of the Torah or OT, now there are countless books both heretical, apocryphal (either early on or later, one was removed from the canon as late as the 15th century!), various Gnostic Christian books, various Jewish Christian books, various pseudo-author texts and letters, from the third century the Nicene creed becomes a thing, around the same time (266 years after Christianity is formed) the canon becomes "finalized" (it changes even up until the 16th century and splits into countless groups of which the major three come around in the 10th century (Catholicism & Orthodox Christianity), with protestantism being the final major grouping that subsequently splinters into more denominations than the entire history of this religion combined. This improvised summary doesn't even include the paleolithic religions of 300.000 years ago, nor the various Animistic religions of which the Aboriginal still survives (40.000 years ago+), or the proto-Indo-European religion, or proto-Iranian, there are well over 30-40 religions, major religions, that we know of historical - with countless unknowns lost to history - to make the claim that God exists and its YHWH is rich.

>>12994853

>>12993191
Because we hate you obnoxious Christ cucks. You're so smug in your beliefs and constantly try to force others to accept your beliefs.

>>12994853
It gets even more ridiculous when they subscribe in the Big Bang, but was "caused" by God - not the name for some kind of force, or a power - but YHWH, who 14.8 billion years later would leave us the Old Testament, featuring his escapades among human beings, and of his "son" who sacrificed himself for some kind of vaguely-explained process whereby apparently all of humanity became fundamentally indebted with ancestral sin and now needed such a savior (the same one who cursed us in the first place). Same thing with the Cambrian Explosion, an event from 542 million years ago. The lack of awareness is just beyond my grasp, it's a brilliant testament to how fundamentally religion can warp your mind. And no, not an atheist/naturalist, I do believe in some kind of afterlife. But religious theology, taken literally and subsequently attempted to reconcile with naturalistic findings, is an example of how devoid of basic reasoning our minds can become when clinging strongly onto a belief system, of whatever kind.

>>12994917
Please don't be mean, anon. I'm not Christian myself but this comment really made me quite sad, to see you say "hate" so casually.

>>12994958
>I do believe in some kind of afterlife. But religious theology, taken literally and subsequently attempted to reconcile with naturalistic findings, is an example of how devoid of basic reasoning our minds can become when clinging strongly onto a belief system, of whatever kind
wtf

>>12992575
>implying the only reason for belief in God is founded in fear
complete brainlet detected

Lots of people posting here who have not properly contemplated their own death. In the face of oncoming death, I imagine most of you would capitulate to some kind of creative deity. You’re not Christians, but no ones an atheist in a fox hole.

>>12994917

You sound like a butthurt faggot.

>>12994966
I can believe in spirituality, and ourselves as being more than material, without believing in a personal, omnibenevolent transcendent Creator who made me in His image, and everything in reality being made around my servitude to Him. If I take the position that consciousness is fundamental and not contingent on the body, then an afterlife follows as corollary. What the nature of it, though, I don't claim. And believing all of this is no different than believing in the natural world, except it concerns a different one, and one we don't yet have the data for. I personally think there's some kind of system which distributes souls across material bodies, for example, with no need for a God of any kind. I know that most "atheists" are basically scientific materialistic reductionists, hence why me not believing in God but in the afterlife might seem ridiculous to you, but we're still out here and it's not my fault other non-theists are so unoriginal in their metaphysical positions on reality.

>>12995075
The "deathbed conversion" is the most insincere form of theism possible, and no Christian should have any respect for such a spontaneous, meaningless, and shallow affectation of a belief they sincerely attempted to follow during most of their actual life. It's not a conversion, it's the most hollow fear-driven action one could ever do. Funny too that while some become Christians in the face of death, but Christ himself uttered statements of atheism during his own last moments. Ironic, I guess.

>>12995103

It might be insincere, but it is still theism.
I’m just trying to point to the fact that almost every human being wants there to be a god

>>12993524
i think he's saying that cope posting is reddit tier, not that it's a reddit based meme. it's the same as "you've probably never satisfied a woman"

>>12995129
I'd instead say that every human wants there to be an afterlife. And the dominant religion of the Western sphere ties that concept to God, and also ties the concept of eternal damnation to the negation of the God. Hence why people "convert" on their deathbed, desiring both to attain a positive afterlife, and avoid a negative one.

>>12992449
As sad as religious people attempting to force justify their beliefs. Same principles. Salvation is in resignation, on both sides and for everyone. Most religions offer that directly, thus the more visible struggle for atheists.

>>12995075
You can find mystic elsewhere than in monotheistic religions, you know. You are browsing /lit/, you should have a hint of that.

>>12992449
magic != meaning

>>12992449
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1FJb852uZpn

Terribly spooky thread