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/lit/ - Literature

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12914195 No.12914195 [Reply] [Original]

Is idealism just a mystic's cope in a non-religious world? The separation of matter from the ideal seems like unfalsifiable, and more importantly, completely unnecessary semantic horseshit to reject the banality of the world which appears cruelly straightforward. Only material actuality is real, as far as any intellectually honest man is concerned. A man thinks about murdering his wife daily, yet doesn't. Would an idealist think the man is a murderer?

>> No.12914334

>>12914195
>Only material actuality is real, as far as any intellectually honest man is concerned
What about math?

>> No.12914363

>>12914195
life without absolutes is meaningless and you can't find absolutes in the material world.

>A man thinks about murdering his wife daily, yet doesn't. Would an idealist think the man is a murderer?

not a murderer per se but they'd probably say he's wrong for thinking that

>> No.12914389
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12914389

>>12914334
>I can imagine it, therefore it exists!
Go home Anselm

>> No.12914390

>>12914363
natural principles are absolute you faggot

>> No.12914396

>>12914390
A principle isn't a material thing

>> No.12914461

>>12914396
one cant exist without the other

>> No.12914471

idk OP maybe you can ask /his/ after your 3 day vacation

>> No.12914544

>>12914195
The assertion that external variables predetermine all outcomes of human consciousness and that it simply appears otherwise to our limited brains is literally false and possible to disprove via mathematics. Wittgenstein numbers and sentences proved that any formal system, e.g., a computer, calculus, a scientific theory, or our fucking brains, produces nonsense/irrational/demonstrably false conclusions that cannot be overcome without external information, theories, or epistemologies.

The implication for human consciousness and the mind body problem is that we are not simply computers working with innumerably large variables. We have a component that contains gaps, freedom, creativity, or at the very least wholly unpredictable randomness and supra rationality. This is true regardless of how advanced our knowledge of the world and computational powers are.

So no you're wrong you dumb farter and so is poopy Marx

>> No.12914548
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12914548

>>12914195
>Only material actuality is real
Are you implying that our senses are capable of perfectly observing the world around us? Everything we perceive is the abstraction of an imperfect being. Really not sure where you are going with this.

>> No.12914566

>>12914544
Also:
>only the material is Real*
*this term is a non empirical value judgment based on non empirical epistemologies, proving your lack of intellectual rigor and extreme hypocrisy. If only the material is "real" than you are in no position to make any such claim EVER.

>> No.12914583

>>12914548
>Are you implying that our senses are capable of perfectly observing the world around us? Everything we perceive is the abstraction of an imperfect being.
Wouldn't that be an argument towards materialism? The "ideals" we perceive aren't primary, they're just terrible approximations of the real material noumena

>> No.12914584

>>12914544
That's not how you spell Godel /:

>> No.12914631

This thread was moved to >>>/his/6437777