/lit/ - Literature

Genesis in Islam

God did not rest

God did not make man in His image

Satan was not a talking snake

The fruit was just a regular fruit but off limits, not fruit of knowledge

God did not walk around

Death already existed, eating the fruit did not trigger any sort of fall. Adam simply ate a fruit he was forbidden to eat. He later asked for forgiveness and so God forgave him

>>12889509
If that's a girl, she'll not be very pretty with 20.

>>12889509
Allah is the Light of Heaven and Earth. His light may be compared to a niche in which there is a lamp; the lamp is in a glass; the glass is just as if it were a glittering star kindled from a blessed olive tree (that is) neither Eastern nor Western, whose oil will almost glow though fire has never touched it. Light upon light, Allah guides anyone He wishes to His light.

Verily we are for Allah, and verily unto Him we are returning.

>>12889509
If Mohammed had been a false prophet. there is no reason why Christ should not have spoken of him as he spoke of Antichrist but if Mohammed is a true Prophet the passages referring to the Paraclete must inevitably concern him - not exclusively but eminently - for it is inconceivable that Christ, when speaking of the future, should have passed over in silence a manifestation of such magnitude. The same reasoning excludes a priori the possibility that Christ. when making his predictions, intended to include Mohammed under the general denomination of'' false prophets", for in the history of our era Mohammed is in no sense a typical example among others of the same kind, but on the contrary, a unique and incomparable apparition(1). If he had been one of the false prophets announced by Christ he would have been followed by others and there would exist in our day a multitude of false religions subsequent to Christ and comparable in importance and extension to Islam. The spirituality to be found within Islam from its origins up to our days is an incontestable fact. and "by their fruits ye shall know them." Moreover, it will be recalled that the Prophet in his doctrine has testified to the second coming of Christ without attributing to himself any glory. unless it be that of being the last Prophet of the cycle and history proves that he spoke the truth, no comparable manifestation having followed after him.

Is the prostitute forgiven for being a prostitute, or is another sin involved?

What exactly is jihad? And why is it that so many muslim countries are plagued bt terrorists?

>>12889635
The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war. Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle: 1) A struggle to live as a good Muslim 2) A struggle to build a good Islamic society 3) A holy war to defend Islam.

>>12889622
Prostitutuon, which is extremely serious sin in Islam for both parties unless one is a slave being pimped out, in which case her master recieves the blame, not her (Qur'an 24:33).

>>12889635
>What exactly is jihad?
Spiritual struggle. When applied to war, it means when the whole Muslim community declares war (pretty much impossible without a caliph)

Muslim countries are plagued with terrorism because Saudi Arabia spends a lot of money to propagate Salafism, including placing Salafi imams in mosques around the world and making a Salafi English translation of the Qur'an (which includes glosses extolling terrorism) the most read and propagated.

The second text in OP is beautiful.
If there's so much peaceful passages in Islamic creed, why there's so many violence and cream coming out of the Muslim community?
Also what is the status within of Muslims living in non-Islamic countries? Are they considered to be living in Dar-al-kharb?

>>12889509
How can I convert to Islam?

>>12889655
>Spiritual struggle. When applied to war, it means when the whole Muslim community declares war (pretty much impossible without a caliph)

Historically speaking, that's not true. There were many cases when Islamic clerics and rulers declared Jihad to fight non-muslims or a branch considered heretical.

>>12889662
It is crummy political situation that causes the violence. This was done Christians backed by an Israeli Prime Minister who did the Hotel David bombings (he later recieved the Nobel Peace Prize).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

The division of the world into Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam has no basis in the Qur'an or Sunnah (meaning of no doctrinal significance), so not something that can answered definitively as it is technically, ironically, not a question of Islam's teaching, but a question of a teachinng related to Islam. Hence there is no decisive answer (the fatwa on this question rule exactly this), it is purely about the scholar's beliefs. Some say Dar al-Harb is any land that does not have an Islamic state, others say it is only lands that persecute Muslims.

>>12889667
Technically it just requires you recite the Shahada before two or more witnesses

>>12889694
In certain clear cases where a state's actions would put them de facto at war with Islam, jihad is reasonable to declare as an evident state of affairs. Otherwise the rulers and scholars were simply over-hyping their personal war. It is simply a fact that Islam does not invest scholars or lower leaders with authority to declare jihad. It is just a regular war. Just like anyone short of the Pope declaring Crusade in Catholicism is just LARP'ing.

>>12889601
>>12889611

Islam is often painted as an ad hoc addition to Christianity and Judaism, but anyone who reads the Qur'an see it is a about restoring the religion of Abraham and prophets and purifying it from human alterations

Islam is the alt-right of abrahamic thought.

>>12890667
Wrong, it is the feminism of Abrahamic thought

>>12889509
>>Allah had once forgiven a prostitute. She passed by a dog panting near a well. Seeing that thirst had nearly killed him, she took off her shoe, tied it to her scarf, and drew up some water. Allah forgave her for that.
nani

>>12890743
She was a whore, an extrene sin in Islam (the Qur'an prescribes one hundred lashes for fornication, for both men and women), but Allah forgave her sins because she did an act of kindness for a dog. This isn't isolated, acts of mercy are regularly shown to be a pretext for God to forgive many sins, in Islam He looks for any way to forgive while staying Just

>>12890667
>thing is just other thing
>nazi anime girl

no

Is there a Sand Pill reading list?

>>12891077
The Study Qur'an is a very good stary, it gives traditionalist/Medieval and mystical commentary.

Each of those statements is so vague that it could justify both conquest and of others and inspire others to mercy toward you.

The genius of Mohammad was that he knew that conquest can be done through the heart as much as it could the sword, and he sought to do both simultaneously in his imperial manifesto.

>>12891220
*crack*
*sips*

>>12891293
Hey, I'm in a state of constant awe and horror at the beast that is Islam, and I admire the man that rides it just as much as I fear him.

All you ever need to know about that subhuman religion.

>>12891077
>no Kierkegaard in the list

Speaking about him, I wonder to which degree his viewpoint is Islam-compliant

زشیر شتر خوردن و سوسمار...عرب را به جایی رسیده ست کار
که فر کیانی کند آرزو...تفو بر تو ای چرخ گردون تفو

>>12891498
To no degree, as Islam is either stuck in the ethical stage or not even in the aesthetic stage. He has also devoted much to the idea of the Savior who out of love reduced himself to the level of man, something unthinkable in Islam.

>>12891077
Pretty much any book from this site
https://its.org.uk

>>12891580
The aesthetic is lower than the ethical, the religious above the ethical. Kierkgaard's conception of God is totally at odds with Islam, which holds we are no the children of God (and thus should not consider Him a father), we are not made in the image of God, that God is totally without any emotion whatsoever. However Kietkgaard's three stages of aesthetic-ethical-religious are totally in line with Islam, which always places submission to God befpre morals and both before aesthetics

Spend years reading Kant, Locke, Kierkegaard et al. Take a dip in Islam, start with Al ghazali. Really surprised given how he's perceived in the west

>>12891730
It is interesting that hos nearest western equivilant is Hume. Unshakabke religion and extreme doubt were the two opposite conclusions of the same train of thought

>>12891719
Doesn't Kierkegaard place too much freedom and responsibility upon a believer to believe and behave according to it? He'd recognise no authorities when it comes to faith, and it's not some accessory but a founding stone of his whole construction, wouldn't that make him unsalvageable to most islamic schools?

>>12891543
درور بد شما برادر

>>12891758
Shi'ites have an infallible authority, but most Muslims think you are obligated to disobey imams if they teach contrary to the Qur'an or Sunnah. Imams and scholars are simply experts like any academic expert

>>12891416
Based af

>>12889564
Satan isn't a talking snake anywhere

>>12891791
Shiites believe that in terms of belief (the reasons you are a Muslim or Shiite and the beliefs you ascribe to God and the Prophet) you are not allowed to blindly follow anyone, their infallible authority is only followed in matters of jurisprudence (and even then if you are knowledgeable you can follow your own judgement, just very few people actually learn Islamic regulations as in depth as Shiite scholars do).

>>12891416
The Traveller is literally just opinion, only the Qur'an and Sunnah pertaining to it are held as binding by anyone. Anything said not explicitly found therein is human opinion, and anything contrary one is obligated to deny.

>>12889509
>the Qur'an in Islam is the comprehensive doctrine. Ahaditha are only binding when used to clear up interpretation of it.
Not true. Sometimes ahadith even take priority over the quran.

Such is the case for the sharia prescribed punishment for adultery: quran 4:15 said to just wall the adulterers inside their homes, but this command was later abrogated by many ahadith (sahih and mutawatir, therefore with undeniable power of law) which say to stone adulterers to death. A few examples:

>«Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: "A woman from Juhainah confessed before the Prophet (pbuh) that she had committed adultery, and she said: 'I am pregnant.' So the Prophet (pbuh) called for her guardian and said: 'Be good to her and if she gives birth to her child then tell me.' So he did so, and then he (pbuh) gave the order that her clothes be bound tightly around her. Then he ordered her to be stoned and she was stoned.» (At-Tirmidhi n° 1435)

>«Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (pbuh) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. […] Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said: Have you committed adultery? He said: Yes. He made pronouncement about him and he was stoned to death. […] Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: […] What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah's Apostle (pbuh) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah's Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death.» (Sahih Muslim n° 1695)

>«Narrated Ash-Shu`bi: from `Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. `Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Messenger (pbuh)".» (Sahih Bukhari n° 6812)

>«[…] in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.» (Sahih Muslim n° 1690c)

See also: Sahih Bukhari 2695 and 6814; Abu Dawud 4448; Sahih Muslim 1691a and 1700a; Sunan Ibn Majah 20,2655, and others. You can find all these ahadith on Sunnah.com

t. an actual muslim repulsed by the modern tendency of false believers to whitewash our faith only to appease to westerners. Islam is what it always was and what it always will be. Stop lying to make it appear "nicer" according to their standards.

>>12889642
...also 4) an aggressive, unprovoked war against infidels just because they're infidels.

Pic related. Jihad is a lot more insidious, evil and dishonorable than non-muslims think.

Mfw westerners take opinions of random 4chan users over the hundreds of fellow westerners who have done neutral and excellent work in Islamic studies

>>12889662
>If there's so much peaceful passages in Islamic creed, why there's so many violence and cream coming out of the Muslim community?
Short answers: the nice passages are either all abrogated by most recent orders to kill&slaughter the infidels, or they only refer to being nice to other muslims, but not to infidels.

And then there are the mistranslations to trick the infidels, because Taqiyya and Tawriya are definitely a thing that muslim preachers use all the fucking time. Yes, sunni as well.

>>12891852
Ahadith which contradict the Qur'an are invalid according to basic Muslim teaching, specifically because the Qur'an is infallible and ahaditha are not, they are ranked according to reliability but none is infallible and all can only be considered binding if applicable to constructing the meaning of the Qur'an

Muhammed may and probably did this before the appropriate revelation, same as all his marriages were before the limit of four wives was revealed

I very much doubt you are a Muslim, as you selected ahaditha mainly referenced in antiislamic articles and seldom in actual fiqh.

>>12890302
>It is crummy political situation that causes the violence.
Really? What "crummy political situation" caused muslims to invade Persia, India, all North Africa, Spain, France, the Balkans, and in general any infidel place they met?

What "crummy political situation" caused them to create the widest, cruelest and longest lived slave trade in human history? (Pic related)

Because all this shit happened centuries before Israel and le ebil american imperialism were even a factor.

>>12890302
>It is just a regular war.
A "regular war" indistinguishable from jihad, since you apes still kill, rape, enslave and destroy everything.

But it's not technically jihad. Much consolation. Very difference.


P.S.
Can you stop raping children as young as 9 and even preaching that it's a noble thing to do because Muhammad did it with Aisha? Thx.

>>12891895
I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting Christians and Zorastrians and Jews and pagans were not imperialists? You are like someone who loves the Zulus but condemns British Imperialism. Muslim states did what was considered something praiseworthy at the time

>>12890796
>Allah forgave her sins because she did an act of kindness for a dog.
Even though Muhammad hated dogs and during his disgusting life choking full of disgusting acts, he ordered to kill any dog his followers ever saw?

>>12891913
The age of betrothal in Byzantine and most western law then was seven. It never really got to be high until the late 19th and 20th Centuries

>>12891919
The Qur'an portrays dogs in a purely positive light

>>12891115
I tried to read the quran but couldn't. It's so shittily written. The style, the contents, the stories badly copied from the torah and sometimes misunderstood, the rules obviously created only to favor Muhammad (infinite wives but only for him + only he can fuck his son's wife + complete obedience to him or else Allah burns you, etc.).

Jesus, that book is such a piece of shit.

>>12891919
Don't you get tired of polemics? You're not going convince anyone. But then again I bet you larp as a templar

>>12891931
Try a translation that isn't abysmal. Arberry or Pickthall

>>12891851
>The Traveller is literally just opinion
No it fucking isn't. It's one of the most influential and followed manuals of islamic law ever written, and it provides citations from the quran and the sunnah for every rule. Plus, other legal texts all agree with it on basically every issue.

It's not a weird book which came out of nowhere and is not taken seriously by anybody, it describes sharia as it was always intended, as it's still intended to this day. Its rulings are orthodox islam, not a fringe degeneration. Theologically, they're ironclad.

>>12891791
The problem with islam, and what makes it unfixable, is precisely that its awful laws are not derived from some asshole scholar's opinions, they're taken straight from the quran and the sunnah. Which are considered the word of God (indirectly, in the case of the ahadith), and are therefore impossible to change.

>>12891946
It is very influential among Shafi'i, but none regards it as "irontight" any more than any American book on jurisprudence would be considered "irontight"

>>12891953
Ahadith are not revelation and so only applicable to interpret the Qur'an. By themselves they have zero authority

>>12891888
>Ahadith which contradict the Qur'an are invalid according to basic Muslim teaching
Complete lie. A very easily disproven one too: just look at the previously mentioned case of stoning the adulterers. The Holy Quran says to wall them in, the Sunnah says to stone them, and since the law in the Sunnah was expressed by Muhammad (pbuh) after verse 4:15 was revealed, it has the priority.

You seem to be forgetting that sahih ahadith are the Word of Allah through the mouth of the Holy Prophet. They're as sacred as the Glorious Quran, and when they express more recent rulings, they have the priority over even the Quran.

This is why in sharia-ruled countries, adulterers are stoned and not walled in.

>>12891888
>none is infallible
"Sahih" means infallible, lying twat. Sahih hadiths are as binding as the quran.

>ahaditha mainly referenced in antiislamic articles and seldom in actual fiqh
I've read fiqh manuals and they explicitly mention those hadiths to justify the laws about stoning adulterers. Study your own religion before you speak.

>>12891917
I'm saying that muslims have always waged unprovoked (and cowardly) wars against any infidel population, simply because of their greed for gold and slaves. This is a historical fact. Neither Persia nor India nor North Africans nor Spaniards, nor French people, nor the Balcanic people had attacked or threatened muslims in any way.
Most of them didn't even know islam existed when they got attacked by surprise.

Your religion was always the religion of cowards, thieves and rapists.

>considered something praiseworthy at the time
Only by islam, because islam is the most bloodthirsty, greedy, imperialist ideology ever created. It's built on the express idea that muslim lives are superior to infidel ones. This is in your law manuals ffs.

>>12892004
i wonder how those nations expended lol

>>12891925
>we evolved our barbaric practices while they're still stuck in the middle ages, but it's fine, we're the exact same thing and they shouldn't be criticized for their refusal to stop raping children and enslaving or killing innocents just because they're infidels
That's how retarded your argument is.

>>12891930
Why are you omitting the little detail that the Sunnah describes them as impure beings and Muhammad ordered to slaughter all of them (except the useful ones to guard fields and orchards)?
There's a reason why muslims still hate dogs and consider them disgusting to this day. Islam tells them to.

>>12891979
24:2 addresses fornication or perhaps are more lenient stance with adultery. 4:15 is general lewdness.

Stoning is only applicable where there are four witnesses to the crime itself or the criminal makes four voluntary confessions and does not retract them

>>12891987
No hadith is binding independently. Sahih means the highest reliability but only as exegesis. You don't know what you're talking about

>>12892004
Yes, yes, the Spanish were pacifists who came to the New World to offer relief funds to the Incas

>>12891934
I'm not trying to convince muslims or fanatical pro-islam leftists. I'm giving virgins the informations they need to truly understand your shitty religion and why it's cancer. Info that you would never give them because you're a lying mudslime too busy proselytizing.

>>12891941
>if you read this translation, all the verses which allow to fuck children, enslave women and slaughter infidels will suddenly say to love your neighbors and be peaceful.

>>12892019
Because any Hadith contradicting the Qur'an is not valid, pretty simple. The Qur'an says animals killed by dogs used for hunting are halal

Islam reads like a teenage boys fantasy

>>12891077
There needs to be a Shekel Pill as well, combined in to the Abe Pile.

>>12891961
Infidel jurisprudence drastically changes on innumerable issues. Islamic jurisprudence doesn't have this freedom. If a quranic verse or a sahih hadith says to do something, all law schools must repeat the same thing. They can't deviate, or they're committing apostasy. This is why they all end up preaching the same laws with extremely minor differences.

>>12892035
But that is not what I suggest at all, I say that because they are much better at capturing the literary qualities. Arberry is very literal and secular translation which high academic regard.

>>12891968
Congrats on your apostasy. What you just said is against islam.

>>12892046
Again no, the Qur'an is the complete faith, ahadith MUST be followed only as an exegesis

>>12892012
>lol i'm sure they were ebil and imperialistic as well even though I can't prove it in any way, and this justifies islam's brutal and unprovoked imperialism and it means we're the good guys

>>12892054
No it isn't

https://www.javedahmedghamidi.org/#!/mizan

>>12892027
>24:2 addresses fornication or perhaps are more lenient stance with adultery.
24:2 explicitly talks about UNMARRIED PEOPLE fucking: «The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah» (Sahih International).
This is why it's more lenient. 4:15 talks about married people cheating, so it's harsher.

>Stoning is only applicable where there are four witnesses to the crime itself or the criminal makes four voluntary confessions and does not retract them
So you admit the punishment for adultery IS stoning and not walling in like the quran says. So the sunnah here takes precedence over the quran.

>No hadith is binding independently. Sahih means the highest reliability but only as exegesis. You don't know what you're talking about
Lying cunt. Sahih hadiths are regularly taken as a primary source for sharia, equal to the quran, by any fiqh manual. And in some cases, like I proved, superior to the quran.

>the spanish attacked native americans so islam was allowed to attack them (centuries before that) in a completely unprovoked way, like it did with countless other populations
Compelling argument, inbred.

>>12892037
>any Hadith contradicting the Qur'an is not valid, pretty simple.
Again with this lie. Explain why they stone adulterers like the hadiths say instead of walling them in like the quran orders to do.

pedo here
can i marry a 8yo little girl if i convert to islam?

>77 posts
>19 posters
I'm assuming the last 50 posts since this blew up are all OP trying to talk down to the one guy that was always going to come to this thread, that OP may as well have created the thread for, after hours if replying to himself, in the third failed shitshow of a weekend muslim thread. Why is OP such a retard?

>>12892052
>capturing the literary qualities
You need to invent them, because the quran has none. It's garbage egotist fanfiction.

>>12892057
Again no. Explain why they stone adulterers when the quran prescribes a different punishment.

>>12892066
>quotes the menu of an arab restaurant to "prove" his point.
Denying the validity of sahih hadiths is apostasy: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/115125/ruling-on-one-who-rejects-a-saheeh-hadith (This is a fatwa by one of the highest authorities on islam in the world)

As this Quora thread says, most of the islamic faith is contained not in the quran but in the sunnah. If someone denies the hadiths, he's not a real muslim: https://www.quora.com/Can-you-be-a-Muslim-if-you-reject-the-Hadith-as-being-false-and-misleading

>>12892088
Yes but you need to wait until she's nine to fuck her.

Then you can rape he, even on the day of her 9th birthday. Islam doesn't think marital rape is a thing. Husbands own their wives.

>>12892091
>Why is OP such a retard?
Might be the inbreeding.

>>12892122
Truly the most feminist religion.

>>12892125
Second part of the most brutal muslim assblasting ever.

Also, they hate fagets. But nobody really cares about that.

>>12889509
>>12889601
masha'Allah

>>12892122
thanks. im converting right now

>>12892122
>>12892133
Looks like with these pictures you can convince a fair portion of /pol/ to convert

>>12891869
>I will prove Islam is peaceful
>neutral
Lmao

>>12892225
Godspeed bruzzah.

>>12892322
The inbred actually thinks people haven't noticed the immense pro-islam prejudice of our "neutral" western "scholars".

>>12892380
I wonder where the west's deep hatred for itself comes from. Is it the resentment for Christianity that it turned out to be false, or what?

>>12892430
Jews manipulating young minds for generations results in this

Give me some titles worthy of a read, lads

>>12891869
Post-Said Islamic studies are nothing more than flagellation masquerading as honesty.

>>12889509
infallibility of the decision of whole umma is pulled fully from thematic recurrence across the hadiths right?

>>12892125
>>12892137
Holy fuck lmao

>>12892558
>>12892558
Al-islam.org is a good site with lots of Islamic books. Hossain Nasr is a good author, so was Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir al Sadr. Read pic related to understand islamic politics as well.

>>12892558
>Al ghazali: disciplining the soul and breaking the two desires
>The City of the Heart: Yunus Emre’s Verses of Wisdom and Love
>Fakhr al-Din al-Razi and Thomas Aquinas on the Question of the Eternity of the World

>>12893037
Thanks for the link. I should add that I'm an avid reader of theology, so I'm familiar with Hossain Nasr, among others. I'm mainly looking for specific suggestions, like those of >>12893155
But once again, thanks lads