/lit/ - Literature

>>12867492
There should be a ban list for this type of shitposting

>>12867496
Can you give a serious answer

OP is only not a retard if he's an anti-Eastern thought poster trying to make Eastern thought posters look retarded.

>>12867504
Kant and Hegel were much better at arguing by the means of logic than Shankara or Nagarjuna were.

>>12867531
They both just stole from the ancient Indians. Hegel's whole "Everything is One" was ripped straight from them.

>>12867492
OP, regardless of your respect for Eastern philosophy, please don't make threads with opening statements like this one. You're just going to start a flame war here, like what always happens whenever Eastern and Western philosophy is even compared to eachother in an innocuous sense. Someone asking "Is Eastern philosophy any good? Should I read it alongwise the Western canon?" And the responses are nothing but inflammatory towards anything non-Western.

Anyway, yes, Advaita has many great ideas and I personally subscribe to panpsychism and pantheism, so I agree with much of it. That said, don't put down any other philosophy because of it. I used to be ignorant like this too, thinking one need only find the "best" philosophies and then ignore the rest or denigrate them compared to the former. I was a fool. Philosophy is merely an idea-realm. You should never close yourself off to anything within it. Even if you disagree with 95% of a philosopher's notions, there might be 5% that really resonate for you and can be added to your own previous system to expand it into something more sophisticated. Maybe non-dualism is most experientially articulated by Advaita and other Indian philosophies, like Shankara's commentaries, but that doesn't mean that Spinoza might not also have a world of profound insight on the subject from a totally different perspective, and these two being combinable for a greater product made from their synthesis. Don't discriminate, is all. Find value wherever it's found.

For Krishna's sake, guys below me please don't continue a flame war here. Western and Eastern (and Native American and otherwise) philosophy are both based, and shouldn't be placed in competition. I read them all, and you should too. I'm currently reading a guidebook to Hegel, actually.

>>12867632
>and Native American and otherwise

>>12867492
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis

>>12867644
Their philosophy was all about that stuff

>>12867658
I know, but regardless the principle applies to reading both western and eastern philosophy and learning from both.

>>12867640
>he's not in contact with the Great Spirit
sad, anon

nothing outs you as a brainlet faster than reading outside of your own european literary tradition

>>12867701
I only use part of the buffalo

>>12867632
idk what Advaita is but the fact that ive literally only ever heard it mentioned on /lit/ tells me that it’s bullshit

>>12867823
very sophisticated heuristic, anon

>>12867823
They literally invented quantum mechanics back in 200 ad racist

>>12867826
Surprisingly works
Shit in shit out

>>12867830
>dude it’s all one XD
no they didn’t.

>>12867632
what's native american philosophy

>>12867823
>ive literally only ever heard it mentioned on /lit/
You are just an uncultured fag, that's all

>>12867868
>the connectivity and interdependence of all life
>emphasis on direct personal experience of the mystical
>spirit of cooperation instead of competition
>leaders are only leaders when they lead, not because they are elected officials serving a term
>contemplation of the ancestors, and the descendants - respect for the continuum of life, of past and future
>honor and bravery are the highest virtues
>nobody owns the land
>use only what you need
>you learn wisdom and knowledge to help your people, not to hoard things for yourself and exploit others

check out "The Wisdom of the Native Americans" or "Neither Wolf Nor Dog"

>>12867830
>>12867855
You can poke fun at the Hindutva drones on the internet who mindlessly echo such claims, but foundational figures in quantum physics like Schrödinger writing many things about it in tandem with their scientific assertions. And no matter how much you might hate Indians and their philosophies, if you indeed do, the fact they managed to latch on to such towering figures of the Western intellectual sphere is not something your bias can ever refute. Not saying those Indians aren't indeed silly (I'm Indian myself), but that you shouldn't associate them to the philosophies they preach of.

>>12867492
Western philosophy is fun because they are trying to figure the stuff out, where eastern philosophy just says it and ruins the fun

>>12867492
Why do they all look like dwarfs compared to Shankaracharya? :P

>>12867632
>He thinks advaita is a philosophy.

>>12868016
schrodiger being a memelord doesn’t make it any less nonsensical than any of the Western retards who claim to have invented muh relativity or whatever

>>12868102
they're kids

Eastern philosophy is just empty platitudes intended to be mindlessly followed.

Western philosophy is a celebration of the mind.

>>12868190
what is it then

>>12868343
anon can you pls not start a flame war between them

>>12868002
One of my favorite pictures ever, desu. God, I do hope it's real.

>>12868085
don't incite a flame war pls

>>12868350
Superstition

>>12868435
anon :P pantheism is not a superstition, it's just another philosophy

>>12867492
Why wouldn't you read both?

>>12868457
because they're tribalists for modern cultural distinctions that they were arbitrarily born onto one side of and never even had a hand in making

Laozi > Spinoza

>>12868486
no flame war pls anon

>>12867504
Can you ask a serious question?

>>12868369
western philosophy is just teenage skepticism

>>12868744
I see uve seen some memes of jbp owning libtards epic style

Honest question though from someone who's read a bit of the Greeks, Romans and analytic philosophy - which book/philosopher should one start provided they were truly interested in learning "eastern" philosophy? I put eastern in quotation marks because I suspect that Arabian and Japanese and everything inbetween greatly differ. I've actually only read Zhuangzi a year or two ago but wasn't really impressed, did I jump in it too soon? Serious question, I don't know much about this and don't want to start a flame war as other anons stated already

>>12868817
you should also consider picking up meditation so that texts like the zhuangzi resonate more closely with you

Eastern philosophy track sorta w continental philosophy (soto and anti-structualism) but doesn’t scratch surface of analytics.

>>12867966
By native Americans you mean Aztecs?

These threads feel like punishment for being interested in these topics, as you feel compelled to enter, yet there's never anything of substance. Could you not have picked some other grounds to start a flame war?

>>12867492
West; Ancient Greeks had things figured out pretty early on. Parmenides, Zeno of Elea. Plato. Plotinus and so on.

The way the Greeks write of such things, makes much more sense than the way eastern mystics wrote of them. Even the paradoxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes

>>12869702
Western philosophy did the moment Parmenides went public. Heraclitus was the last end of the Eastern thought in Western canon.

Then we had the Jews and Chinese, both at an oddly coincidental time, with the former making use of numogram/kabllah and the I Ching in the East,both followed the process but only the Chinese stayed true to the Path, the Jews becoming corrupted by the Greek disease.

>>12868817
Abhinavagupta.

>>12867492
know and be true to yourself, dum b it ch. reading eastern philosophy is well and good but if you go to the pub being a proper eastern mystic you'll have prepared yourself for the wrong goddamn class.

>>12867492
Getting into Guenon and Traditionalism.
Need some help.

How does one apprehend the true metaphysics? What method is there to engage your pure intellect?

Did he ever say, or is it a ponder and pray kind of thing?

>>12868002
Spinoza's series of logical, self-contained statements about the universe and mankind are actually a lot more interesting than much of what the Upanishads talk about.

>>12870008
Left brain right brain basically. Try acid and/or meditation.

>>12869716

>Heraclitus
>Eastern thought

You're an idiot

>>12868002
Why is this so simple yet ingenious?

>>12870008
That stuff is explained in the primary writings of the various schools of metaphysics/religious philosophy. Guenon cites from many of them in his books to illustrate how there are immense parallels between them and that in a sense they even seem to be multiple gates providing entrances to the same city. In order to deeply and thoroughly understand any one of these doctrines though you have to do a deep dive through the literature of that one school. Just reading an eclectic mix of 1 or 2 texts from each school won't cut it, or rather you'll be left without a vague and partial understanding that doesn't show the true depth present in them. There is nothing wrong with studying multiple schools of thought, and this can be quite illuminating, but IMO it's best to first get a really grasp on one before reading through all them. Among the schools which Guenon considered to have these 'metaphysical teachings' recorded in texts would be Vedanta, Sufism, Tantra, Mahayana Buddhism, Daoism and Neoplatonism, among others. Daoism is the most accessible and requires the least preliminary reading. The others usually require you to read one or two 'intro to x' type books before you can really understand their metaphysical literature. Just do a bit of research, find out if these what looks the most appealing and then just read through the works of that school's finest thinker and everything Guenon says about metaphysics will soon make sense.

>>12868002
kek

>>12870394
Thinkers during the enlightenment era were amazing, but I think they had a grooming mechanism like other religions. A kind of second message layered in pedantic fog in place of spiritual allegory.

>>12871003
Thanks for the insight! Please let me continue to pick your brain.

This emphasis on sticking to one tradition is what seems to set Traditionalists from Perennialists like Blavatsky. Most attempt to combine the disparate religions, which was why Schuon got criticized, iirc?

Hinduism appeals to me due to its age and the focus Guenon puts on it. Do you have some advice on this complex subject? I have been reading Guenons "Intro" as well as some textbooks by academics for a secular view. I also got a book on Advaita Vedanta.

Do you have an opinion on the Christian Trad writing of Borella? Seraphim Rose?

>>12868085
unironically this

>>12871168
Yoga Sutras of Patnajal

>>12871248
Translation or edition recommendations?

>>12868085
/thread

>>12868085
Be more specific, please. What is "it"? I'm asking sincerely.

>>12867492
Idk, reaffirmation?

>>12867492
Funny you posted Shankarācarya, faggot. Do you know who Swami Rama is? He was made Shankarācarya at the young age of 24. Some three years after that he went on to study medicine and western philosophy. Even traveling to europe to continue his studies. He spoke fondly of the bible and called it "the best book written on the english language".
https://youtu.be/S1sZNbRH2N8

>>12871311
the endgame of eastern philosophy is the experience of oneness with all that is (◠◠)

Is this a good starting point on reading hindu philosophers?:

Patanjali
Adi Shankara
Ramana Maharishi
Vivekananda

Any opinion on Pagal Haranath?

>>12871489
Ditch either vivekananda or patanjal. Both do yoga sutras. Just one is more modern. Try Aurobindo for modern hinduism. Or Abhinavagupta for tantra instead of Maharishi since you already got Patanjal and Sankara.

West said it better and with bigger dicks

>>12871536
>Or Abhinavagupta for tantra instead of Maharishi since you already got Patanjal and Sankara.

Can you explain this sentence? Is Maharishi redundant if you've read Sankara and Patanjali? What does Abhinavagupta provide that Maharishi does not?

So you would recommend:

Pantanjali
Shankara
Abhinavagupta
Aurobindo

Traditionalism is fine, but for me, its Orthodox

>>12871585
That's a good order. Maharishi is not quite as innovative.

>>12871607
Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

>>12869638
no.

>>12871168
I'm the poster you originally replied to
>This emphasis on sticking to one tradition is what seems to set Traditionalists from Perennialists like Blavatsky.
That and she falsified a knowledge of languages like Sanskrit and was exposed when people pointed out that she got basic stuff wrong.
>Most attempt to combine the disparate religions, which was why Schuon got criticized, iirc?
He was criticized by many including Guenon for a variety of reasons including but not limited to purporting to establish and lead a Sufi tariqah while heavily blending it with non-Islamic syncretism and encouraging things like nudity and wine-drinking.
>Hinduism appeals to me due to its age and the focus Guenon puts on it. Do you have some advice on this complex subject? I have been reading Guenons "Intro" as well as some textbooks by academics for a secular view. I also got a book on Advaita Vedanta.
Hindu literature/philosophy is amazing and it's a good starting point to begin with if you intend on reading other eastern stuff. Advaita Vedanta is one of the central currents within Hindu philosophy (when taking into account its historical prevalence, influence on other schools etc); and so it makes sense to make it your entry into Hindu philosophy. One of the best ways to understand Advaita is to read Shankara's commentaries, but these require a decent knowledge of both general Hindu ideas and Vedantic concepts generally to understand. If you read Guenon's 'Intro etc', plus his 'Man and his Becoming', plus the book on Advaita and the textbooks you have than you should be more than prepared to understand everything in his works. Start with his commentaries on the smaller Upanishads or the Gita. To help you better understand Advaita in addition to Shankara's commentaries and non-commentary works you have the various poetic texts (Avadhuta Gita, Ashtavakra G., Ribhu G. etc), the works of medieval-era Advaitins synthesizing earlier thought (Vedantasara, Panchadasi, Advaita Bodha Deepika etc) and the works of 19th-20th century non-dual sages (Ramana Maharshi, Nisargdatta Maharaj, Ramakrishna etc).
>Do you have an opinion on the Christian Trad writing of Borella? Seraphim Rose?
I would recommend both if you are interested in the subject, but would recommend Borella over Rose, Borella actually delves deep into the more metaphysical aspect having to do with gnosis and realization while Rose also does that but moreso concerns himself more with the anti-modern and traditional critiques of things. Rose also has a chapter in a book of his on why he thinks perennialism/other religions are bad which is extremely cringe-worthy writing which betrayed a very poor understanding of the things discussed, it seemed like something out of a Christopher Hitchens book and left a bad impression, but I have seen other parts of his writing which were good too.

>>12871740
Thank you, I really appreciate your guidance.

I wish I had more to ask, but I'm such a novice. I spent the last decade in occult studies, and it inspired only darkness.

Reading Guenon has inspired a desire to be a better human being, a good person. Which I honestly thought was naive.

>>12871585
>Can you explain this sentence? Is Maharishi redundant if you've read Sankara and Patanjali? What does Abhinavagupta provide that Maharishi does not?
I'm not that guy but I can provide some context. Shankara is the major Advaita thinker, but his works can be dense and somewhat inaccessible, albeit extremely rewarding and mind-blowing once you finally get a rhythm for his writing. Ramana Maharshi (who is NOT Maharishi, the guy who founded TM) was a modern non-dual sage who taught his own version of Advaitic doctrine which largely aligns with Shankara's but also includes other influences, the difference between their writings is very large so I wouldn't say one is a substitute for the other but that they are different ways of approaching a similar teaching. Patanjali is a major figure in the Yoga school of thought. He is a good read to understand the contexts and ideas associated with classical Yogic thought. The ideas of Yoga and some of the other schools like Samhkya increasingly over time merged into the various Vedanta schools so understanding the 'base' or 'original' Yogic thought can provide a helpful perspective on how and why the later schools assimilated or responded to it.

Abhinavagupta is the major thinker of Tantric Kashmir Shavism which is a different doctrine from Advaita despite the overwhelming similarities. There is also a large literary tradition associated with Kashmir Shaivism. I would not recommend quickly switching back and forth between Advaita and KS for the reasons I mentioned earlier, namely that it's best to do a deep dive through one thing before moving to the next, KS has a bunch of its own unique terminology/ideas you'll have to learn in addition to the normal pan-Hindu lexicon. It's actually best to study Advaita before KS IMO because Advaita is referenced in KS works often and the notes/commentaries of Academics often use it as a reference point. If you want a good book providing an overview of all these schools, "The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy" provides an overview of Madhyamaka Buddhism, Yogachara Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta and Kashmir Shaivism as well as a review of all the various schools arguments against each other and where they agree/align etc. Ignore all of Vivekananda's and Aurobindo's works. Vivekananda gets a worse rap than he deserves but you are better off reading any translated Advaita text than his books IMO. Aurobindo was learned in Hindu philosophy but just made up his own version which combined it with western ideas like marxism and evolution, Rama Coomarasamy wrote a good article pointing out some of his unsavory aspects.

http://www.religioperennis.org/documents/rcoomaraswy/HINDU.PDF

>>12871835
Thank you. It seems so straight forward when you say it.

To make it simple for myself, to get to what Guenon was pointing to through Hinduism, I should study Advaita Vedanta? To this end I should focus on Shankara as the originator?

What about the before Shankara?
Should I read the Upanishads then straight to Shankara (along with Guenon and the academic sources)?

Do you recommend the Pantjali Sutras for this endeavor, or is yoga a different deal altogether?

I read NeoVedanta had an influence on the Traditionalists, was this mistaken? I assume since you say dont Vivekananda.

Any thoughts on the Catholic Church and its Traditionalist potential?

>>12868002
Reminds me of this

>non-europeans
>thinking
lmao

>>12867504
Yes: eastern philosophy is shit tier animist superstition superior in language but not in substance to the act of insulting your car because the engine stopped.

>>12867492
because it was all understood through some vague mystic shit, western philosophy actually formulated it in a analytical sense

Which docrine is the closest thing to superior western and eastern philosophy unification?

>>12872459
why did this give me such a boner while normally i hate hippie western women travelling to the east for muh spirituality?

I need to stop reading Shankara because now all I want is a qt advaitin gf to save Evropa and uphold its Dharma with

>>12872464
>thinking
>good
lmao at ratinalists

>>12872550
Heiddegger's philosophy

>>12872659
Any particular book of his?

>>12868817
Plotinus is a good jumping off point into Hindu philosophy , as well as if you want to get into German idealism

>>12868817
Shankara and more well known advaitins

>>12870008
Read his books on metaphysics.

You won't realise them as real things beyond the conceptual however until you find a teacher from one of those traditions.

>>12871168
You should look into hariharanada aranyas commentary on the yoga sutra

>>12867632
Schizojak? I thought you were dead.

>>12871907
>To make it simple for myself, to get to what Guenon was pointing to through Hinduism, I should study Advaita Vedanta?
Yes, although if you REALLY wanted to get what he meant then after you read a thousand or so pages of various translated Advaita texts then you could then read a similar amount of pages of the translated primary writings of something like Sufism, Daoism, Neoplatonism, Mahayana Buddhism etc to see how much of these concepts are also reflected elsewhere as well
>To this end I should focus on Shankara as the originator?
If you have the patience to first read the several books needed to understand everything he talks about in his works then yes I would recommend it, it's always best to understand a school of thought through reading the translated works of its central thinker or founder. He explains it all in effusive detail with constant digressions to refute hypothetical objections and to answer potential questions for the sake of clarity.
>Do you recommend the Patanjali Sutras for this endeavor, or is yoga a different deal altogether?
Reading Patanjali will enhance your overall understanding of Hindu thought, but won't add much to your understanding of Advaita specifically. The word Yoga appears in the Vedas, Upanishads and many other texts, but different schools interpret the context that it's used in different ways. Vedantins of every school generally take the view that the 'yoga' mentioned in the Upanishads etc refers to the act of working towards whatever end that school teaches and not the union of purusha and prakriti that Patanjali does (which he gets from Samhkya). That's actually one of the views Shankara argues against and refutes throughout his works. But if you are interested in Hindu thought beyond Advaita it's worth it.
>I read NeoVedanta had an influence on the Traditionalists, was this mistaken? I assume since you say don't Vivekananda.
It is mistaken, it appears to have had no influence and Guenon criticizes him heavily in his first book. People sometimes make the mistake of thinking basically all 19th-20th writing/scholarship on Vedanta outside the realm of official academia automatically qualifies as 'NeoVedanta'. NeoVedanta originated out of a unique confluence of Vivekananda and his associates imbibing western/modern attitudes and concepts such as nationalism, protestant proselytism, egalitarian moralism, anti-colonial discourse etc and combining this with a knowledge of western philosophy. Part of Vivekananda's ideas also stem from various late-medieval and early modern Vedantic thinkers from the 15-17th centuries. The only similarly between him and Guenon is that they both considered there to be some sort of unity between Advaita and other religion/doctrines.

>>12872704
Being and Time

>>12873419
Beautiful! You've been so helpful.

>>12867492
>When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner as the outer, and the upper as the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male shall not be male, and the female shall not be female: . . . then you will enter [the kingdom].
Jesus was redpilled and a Taoist sage, shame his disciples were mongoloids and you have the Seventh Day Adventists acting like heaven to be taken to the place called Heaven.

>>12874436
Unless you make on the right hand as what is on the left and what is on the left hand as what is on the right and what is above as what is below and what is behind as what is before you will not have knowledge of the kingdom.
You would think Laozi himself wrote this. I believe, like Guenon said, Christianity is Chinese.

Anyone have thoughts on Christian Trasitionalism (Guenonian):

Jean Borella
Seraphim Rose

Catholicism's potential for Tradition

Freemasonry? (Guenon was in favor, while Charles Upton finds them Counter-Initiatory)

>>12874983
*Christian Traditionalism (Guenonian)

>>12874983
I don't know. Does anyone know what Guenon's stance on Christianity was?

>>12875002
My understanding is that he thought christianity originally had the primordial truth, but that the initiatory line was now dead (more or less).

Jean Borella disagreed and used Guenons method to show that in his opinion it was still viable.

Seraphim Rose was influenced by Guenon, but saw Orthodoxy as the truth, and Christ as the only way.

Similarly the European pagan religions would've also been viable, but the initiatory line was broken and cannot be found again.

It also cannot be reignited, most likely, at this time (Kali Yuga). Since the truth is behind too many veils. Which is why Guenon joined Sufi Islam. Unbroken initatory line to a tradition he saw as viable. Hinduism would've also worked, but he said it was not available to an outsider like Islam was.

>>12875223
Thank you. Not even Orthodox but holy, how can they have such superior aesthetics? Is that basically what the religion is about? BTFO'ing Catholics and other religions on the aesthetic plane?

Also, do you know if these figures - Guenon, Rose, etc - ever did any charitable work, helping humanity and such? I ask because that's where my heart is, and I wonder if, as a generally spiritual person, I should be more aligned to finding a tradition/lineage/etc and following it and passing it down, rather than to become some kind of general volunteer in the world and spend my days helping people instead? Or should I do both? Spirituality to me is not merely about philosophical doctrines, but tangibly helping others for no recompense, and that's personally where my heart lies. Is that okay? Can I pursue that, or should I do so alongside initiation into a tradition? Keep in mind I have no background in Traditionalism at all, or any other spiritual culture.

>>12875332
Something traditionalism has opened my eyes to, is the religious importance of aesthetics. Beauty is a virtue, beauty on this plane is indicative of the higher realities. Art and music can bring us closer to divinity.

These men were so dedicated to their truth. Guenon, moved to Egypt from France, joined a traditional religion, raised a family. He made his life less comfortable, less lavish, for his truth. Seraphim Rose was (iirc) a Californian with commensurate views. He had the divinity of christ manifested to him, and spent the rest of his life as an ascetic hieromonk in a shack.

Guenon served man by raising a family and writing endlessly on his religious beliefs. He has lead many to what he believed was truth. He raised a family, which is one of the highest gift a person can give (well raised individuals). He also was religiously active so I assume he helped those in his community.

Likewise, Rose was a practicing hieromonk, so he would conduct services and serve his community through the Orthodox organization. Wrote books as well.

Some would call these men regressive and actually doing a disservice. However, they seemed to wish to live in accordance with truth, more than most.

Service to your fellow man is absolutley a virtue. I assume they would agree.

That being said, to truly get in-line with God, both men would challenge you to join his traditions, as their proliferation will help all humanity.

I myself have also not joined any tradition, so this is in no way a challenge.

>>12874983
Meditations on the Tarot is suprisingly good radtrad orthoprax catholicism

>>12876635
My main issue with this, and it is truly a personal one, is you dip one toe into occultism and you are instantly at Crowley. Not that this is necessarily wrong, just that occultism inspires in me a darkness, as opposed to a light.

>>12876651
Meditations on the Tarot is meant to convert occultists to catholicism but it is somewhat heretical hence why I emphasize the author's orthopraxy over his orthodoxy. The praxes are good. It was a book that got me over my edgy occult and traditionalist phase. I am still somewhat perennial but mostly atheistic now. I think there is an intrinsic darkness to certain religious thought whether occult or traditional. But there is also a certain light which I appreciate hence why I still read some.

>>12876771
Fascinating. You sound somewhat similar to me. I have studied the occult for near a decade.

However, since you've moved on from traditionalism, perhaps you can give me some insight. Traditionalism inspiries me towards being a better person. Evola appears to be a dark figure, but what of Guenon and his descendants do you consider to be negative or detrimental.

So I can be on the lookout.

>>12876824
Traditionalism is just exotericly approved occult esotericism. "Being a better person"? Try CBT. Or Stoicism. Or Buddhism. Or Yoga. Those are the best ones. And all work without illogical religious belief. There's no hidden cheat code to happiness. You want to believe? Then why not join a UFO cult? It's really all the same thing. Technologies of self. Same shit as psychedelics. Doesn't mean drug trips are real. You can construct and deconstruct and reconstructure all you want. Limitless possibility. Some people wanna construct a family. Some people wanna deconstruct their ego. Some people wanna simply restructure their life. And those can all be accomplished with or without religion. Up to you. Some people find benefits in traditional structures. Keeping their dark side in check. Kinda like alcoholics who need their AA meetings or they'll fall to their demons. Some people just like to larp aesthetically or piss off or please their parents...


Idk. I am interested in truth. I was a catholic then an atheist then an occultist then a traditionalist catholic then a traditionalist occultist then back to atheism yet again. I have no doubt that I have had some very real experiences of a religious nature but I think religions misunderstand the nature of themselves. I prefer scientifically informed (i.e., modern, cummulative, contemporary, empirical, speculative, open-ended) philosophy.

>>12876651

>you dip one toe into occultism and you are instantly at Crowley

just ignore his shit

>>12876952
Thank you. I now think we are very similar. I am quite familiar with your line of thinking and it is undoubtedly viable.

Good luck on your intellectual journey.

>>12876971
In all honesty he seems ubiquitous. I suppose you could focus on pre-crowley western esotericism. Kabbalah, Hermeticism, and Gnosticism are undoubtedly valuable.

The only major strain of occultism without his influence seems to be Theosophy, and Blavatsky seems to be an obvious fraud in some areas, which undermines her whole endeavor.

>>12867492
why do so many people on this board treat Guenon as the gold standard for understanding all eastern religions/philosophies/traditions?

>>12875332
Can anyone else give me more advice please?

>>12875422
I'm really sleepy anon, sorry, I'll respond to you tomorrow dude.

>>12877037
I think it's more, hes the gold standard of a Traditionalist interpretation of Hinduism, in relation to perennial truth theoretically manifested in all viable religions.

Although, I believe his admirers do think he was well versed in eastern thought, even academically speaking.

Hinduism and eastern thought were a means to an end for him, he could have used any traditional thought. Just his opinion was that Christianity had lost the initiatory chain.

It does make me wonder why I dont see much Islamic writing from him, considering that was his chosen tradition to practice.

>>12868196
If you are not prepared to listen, don't raise your hand.

>>12872459
where can one study AV like this in India with a bunch of foreigners?

>>12878076
Do they have really good audio/visual in India or somthing?

>>12878076
>Every year, people of all ages, races, and creeds journey from around the world to reach Arsha Vidya Gurukulam, a secluded forest ashram in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu. There, they spend three years reading, meditating, and learning Sanskrit. Why? They’re seeking the answers to life.

>But enlightenment is easier said than done, according to Swami Dayananda Saraswati, the central figure in the new documentary Gurukulam. A folksy, unassuming guru clad in bright orange robes, Saraswati—who died last year—was one of the leading practitioners of the school of Hindu philosophy known as Advaita Vedanta. The philosophy teaches non-dualism, the idea that there are no substantial differences between individual elements of the physical and spiritual worlds.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/2016/07/gurukulam-hindu-documentary-interview

>>12867632
>Advaita
>panpsychist
>pantheist
Oh nonono

>>12877037
It’s not so many people, it’s a small amount of people heavily into Traditionalism. Guenon is an interesting scholar and thinker but certainly not the be-all end-all of one’s researches, in my opinion.

I've now read the Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines, Bhagavad Gita, short version of the Upanishads, Vedantasara by Sadananda and The Seven Great Untenables.

Could anyone give me some tip on what to read next? I want to continue my dive into Advaita. also wasn't there supposed to be someone working on an Advaita or Hinduism chart? we're waiting

>>12879214
This is so funny. Is it accurate, Shankaracharya merely renovating Buddhist ideas and creating his variant of Advaita from it?

>>12867752
Is moral relativism spirituality?

>>12878195
This is somewhat helpful but I can't help but feel like these courses are chalk full of more rituals then are necessary. Why this silly pomp, can't a man just study Vedanta in garish-free austerity? Didn't Vivekananda's strain of AV eschew icons and rituals?

>>12879427
>imagine actually desiring a spiritual path but with minimalist aesthetics
How do we keep (((westerners))) like this guy from ruining authentic spirituality and religiosity? You people have already all but destroyed Zen and now you've set your eyes on Vedanta, huh?

Get behind me, Mara!

>>12879473
>imagine thinking India ever had a handle on aesthetics and that their innate tackiness was anything but the puerile projections of their eternally nouveau riche mentality

>>12879295
It's true but Hindufags get upset when you mention Buddhist influence on their primordial untouched pie aryan troo kvlt religion.

>>12880018
Which is more based, Sankara's Advaita or the best branch of Buddhism?

>>12879214
Greetings anon, it is I; the assembler of the Hindu philosophy chart (should be another few weeks and then I'll post it) . I would next recommend Guenon's "Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta", which is a fairly short ~100 page work overviewing a lot of the concepts that come up in Shankara writings (and Ramanuja et al); the reason I recommend it is that reading Shankara's writings is one of the best ways to understand Advaita, but there are a lot of concepts you need to understand before you read them, namely things like subtle vs gross, different types of manifestation, the exact nature of Atma, all the cosmic correspondences like Prajapati, Hiranyagarbha etc. Guenon explains most of it in his book and leaves you in a good position to understand Shankara's writings. The chapter on the Indian theory of the elements in Guenon's 'Studies in Hinduism' should also be read before Shankara if you haven't already read about their elemenetal doctrines elsewhere. After that you'll know 90+% of the words/terms used and can look up the small remainder you don't know. It's best to start with his Upanishad commentaries, the Chandogya and Brihadaranyaka are two separate ~760-page (on each) commentaries and and then his commentaries on the remaining 8 Upanishads and Gaudapada's Karika (and Shankaras comments on that) come all bundled together in a two-part translation by Gambhirananda, the smaller Upanishads are easier to begin with but you can begin with either, the Chand and Brihad are both pre-buddhist.
>>12879295
In every instance that I've ever seen with regard to specific doctrines or claims that he allegedly took from Buddhism you can find sources for them in the early pre-Buddhist Upanishads. People who take issue with him for whatever reason sometimes jump onto that in an attempt to discredit him, but when confronted nobody has any ideas about specific instances. Even with all the stuff on his and Gaudapada's wiki pages you can find it in the earliest Upanishads. Radnakrishnan was of the opinion that the similarities are due to them both stemming from the same body of "Upanishadic teachings" that they each took in a different direction.

>>12880070
Buddhizm

>>12880095
And what would that "best branch" be, for someone who wants to study it?

>>12880106
there is no best branch friend
just follow the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path

>>12880070
Advaita is more based. Buddhism is slightly incoherent and has a bunch of paradoxes which is why they have all these different schools of thought trying to tie down all its loose ends. With Advaita you have the truth right there in the beginning with the Upanishads. Shankara also refutes both Hinayana and Mahayana doctrines left and right in his commentaries whereas not a single classical Buddhist thinker ever wrote a detailed refutation of Advaita that I'm aware of.

>>12880433
Cringe and bluepilled

>>12880070
Rankings:

>Best
Buddhism
>Almost best, honorary runner up
Shankara
>Complete dog shit
Neo-vedanta interpretation of Shankara (inspired by WESTERN theosophy and brought into India by Westerners lmao)

>>12880081
>specific doctrines or claims that he allegedly took from Buddhism you can find sources for them in the early pre-Buddhist Upanishads.
other Vedanta schools are based on Upanishads too, and yet their views contradict what Shankaracharya concluded, so its possible he cherrypicked his citations.

>>12880106
Nagarjuna is usually considered the most influential thinker excepting the Buddha himself.

guenonfag is interesting proof why easterners never advanced past the medieval phase in philosophy, he can't see how solipsistic it is to rabidly defend your chosen faith/scripture as the one true perfect faith/scripture with NO ERRORS!!!

asian religions never reached the historico-critical stage because they are all stuck in this "no, I'M correct" mode of thinking

>Now, can metaphysics as we understand it be defined? No, for to define is always to limit, and what is under consideration is, in and of itself, truly and absolutely limitless and thus cannot be confined to any formula or any system whatsoever. Metaphysics might be partially tially characterized, for example, by saying that it is the knowledge of universal principles, but this is not a definition in the proper sense and in any case only conveys a fairly vague notion. Something can be added by saying that the scope of these principles is far greater than was thought by some Westerners, who, although really studying metaphysics, did so in a partial and incomplete way. Thus, when Aristotle considered metaphysics as a knowledge of being as being, he identified it with ontology, which is to say that he took the part for the whole. For Eastern metaphysics, pure being is neither the first nor the most universal of principles, for it is already a determination. It is thus necessary to go beyond being, and it is this that is of the greatest importance. This is why in all truly metaphysical conceptions, allowance ance must always be made for the inexpressible; and just as everything that can be expressed is literally nothing in comparison with that which surpasses expression, so the finite, whatever its magnitude, is as nothing to the infinite. One can intimate much more than one can express, and ultimately, this is the part played by exterior forms; all such forms, whether words or symbols, merely constitute supports, footholds from which to rise to possibilities of conception that transcend scend them immeasurably. We will return to this point later.

>>12880140
okay thanks fren

>>12880433
thanks fren

>>12880499
why do you say buddhism is more based?

>>12878195
Watched the documentary
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilycpat6Vt8
Doesn't look as comfy as the Buddhist monastery documentaries I've seen.

>>12880487
>on the bus reading Sri Śaṅkarācārya's Brahma Sutra commentary
>I'm at the part right before Śaṅkarācārya' refutes Buddhism by noting that the doctrine of momentariness is nonsensical because its implication is that the antecedent thing would have to cease to exist at the next moment when the subsequent thing is created, meaning that it could not be the cause of the other, which goes against the principle that the cause is necessarily non-momentary by existing in a new form in the effect just as the cause of the clay still exists in the pot; and that the only way for the Buddhists to reconcile this would be to hold that existence proceeds out of non-existence which is impossible and itself would violate the Buddhist tenet that every effect has a cause
>slouch down my seat and yell, "YO, THIS NIGGA FINNA BOUTTA GET DABBED ON"
>my all-pervading self laughs
>a wave in the limitless ocean of myself looks at my jiva-atma and says "You aight, white boy"
>Hear "He cute" from another wave

>>12880542
Based secret agent Kantian theosophist poster

>>12880542
how does this apply to asian religions any more than it does literally every major religion in the world? christianity, islam, etc

Visuddhimagga: Worth a read?

>>12880573
Christianity managed to overturn such presuppositions which is what in turn allowed Europe to take over the world. Either there is something simply to Christianity that makes it superior or maybe white people are just generally smarter than brown people. Idk.

>>12880557
This post is on the cusp of funny. Needs some workshopping.

>>12880558
What's the connection of kant and theosophy?
I know Steiner was into German idealism?

>>12880599
Kant was into Christian Theosophy (i.e., german sophiology and hermeticism inspired by rosicrucianism such as Bohme and Swedenborg).

>>12880579
Not advisable for beginners

>>12880627
What do I need? I've read 4-5 foundational books to where I understand Buddhism - I just haven't touched the primary sources. I guess I've got to proceed to the prominent sutras now ehh

>>12880586
"Overturn such presuppositions"? By labelling anyone who interpreted the scriptures differently as "heretics" and literally killing off entire groups of them, like the Gnostics, steadily culling off all oppositions until only one interpretation remained and the others couldn't even be found either in living proponents or their written manifestos? And subsequently dividing themselves into an ever-expanding list of denominations throughout history, which hasn't ended to this day, while also waging outright wars with eachother over their intra-religious affiliations, and carrying on such heated debates and genuine hatred towards eachother now onto the comment sections of the internet, which similarly show no end in sight after 400+ years?

Truly, Christianity and "White" people are superior.

>>12880621
We can both agree that Kant is great for outlining the boundary of what can be rationally and empirically known, right?

>>12867547
Thats from paramendies, which in turn probably ripped it

>>12880557
Always loved this one. I'm pretty sure I saw the original author of this pasta.

>>12880652
Need meditation experience. Maybe a teacher.

>>12880557
*laughs in non-duality*
>>12880579
>theravada
More like this-is-all-there-is-ism

>>12880656
I thought sects and wars were what Hinduism was all about. More denominations than Christianity and the Baghavad Gita is all about killing your family.

>>12880542
>says this
>while representing Christianity, of all religions
oh, lol

>>12880665
Hegel is more politically innovative than either Parmenides or Shankara. More relevant too.

>>12880599
>What's the connection of kant and theosophy?

Kant was possibly a mild fan of some 18th century "theosophy" (though he explicitly and exoterically criticized them deeply). Confusingly that is a very different thing from late 19th century Theosophy (capital T), associated with Blavatsky and her offshoots, which was very influential on Indian neo-Vedantists in the 20th century.

>>12880081
thanks senpai

You know where to download them? I've already have the bhagavad gita with Shankara commentary, which I read from time to time.

>>12880658
Copernican turn

>>12867547
Monism, regardless of its accuracy or truth-value, is an extremely obvious and intuitive idea that more or less every culture has independently expressed in one form or another.

>>12880683
Maybe you just read the general premise of the Gita, instead of the actual text.

>>12880683
>*gets genocided over whether your finger should be slightly bent or not*

>>12880674
Damn. I've meditated on-and-off for some six years now, but besides those simple energy sensations moving in the body, nothing has ever come from it, you know? I wonder if I just started doing 30 minutes x2 a day something would happen. I feel like I know the way forward - it happens when you're absorbed for a minute or two with no interruptions, and suddenly it's like you're transported, almost as if you've begun to perceive the world from the perspective of your breath in my case.

Yeah, that's my perception. I really need to work at meditating in such a way again, and not stick to trivial practice for eternity.

>>12880652
buddhism is for faggyboys. vedic yoga is for burly boys.

>>12879214
Does it take a long time for you to make memes like this? Why do you do it, and do you subsequently spread them as far as you can to make your investment worthwhile?

>>12880723
It's my karma yoga to argue in all /lit/ threads.
>>12880738
Get a teacher.

>>12880789
How? Is it possible online?

>>12880775
I don't make memes(with few exceptions), I just spread them.

>>12880796
Use google. I would recommend meeting in person over a purely online relation. Try not to get sucked into any weird cult shit.

>>12880839
how do you feel about our guy sadhguru

>>12880839
They had some instructors linked who will do it free on reddit, and it may be worth checking out as the Buddhist community there appears surprisingly academic and sane. I would do in-person meetings ideally, but a broke college student with no car is out of luck there. Now, it's true there's a sangha that meets at a yoga center some 30 mins. walk away - I just don't know how to verify if they're giving good advice or so on. That's my concern.

>>12880796
There are some western teachers you can find online such as these two
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F10lnfNobfo
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ap1eCikGBk

Not sure if you should trust (((westerners))) though... I've watched both of them for a while and they seem smart but it all seems devoid of spirituality and theurgy.

>>12880523
He doesn't cherry-pick, he synthesizes the import of ostensibly contradicting passages using a method approximating the coherence theory of truth. When you compare the other Vedanta schools arguments with him he is backed up by the Upanishads. He anticipates many of the later arguments used by the other schools and points to Sruti verses refuting them. Scholars/authors who specialize in studying Vedanta usually admit in their books that Shankara's is the most straightforward and logical interpretation, but the collective official 'academic' agreement is that they're all roughly equally valid interpretations of the same opaque texts, because to say otherwise would involve making other sects look bad so they stay away from that, similar to how academics wouldn't want to be caught saying that Shia or Ibadi Islam isn't 'correct'. It's part of the disinterested sanitized agnostic attitude of academia that they absolve themselves from wading into the debate (which is understandable). If you actually know of areas where you think the other schools are more correct and you have scripture citations to back it up, I'd love to see them.

>>12880930
It may be the most logical extrapolation of the upanishads but like who the fuck actually thinks you obtain truth from coherence of verses about some cliche mystic poetry? Science>spirituality

>>12880926
It seems like /lit/ will only ever trust Guenon when it comes to this stuff, though I admit being really skeptical of nearly every Western figurehead of Eastern religion. I am unfamiliar with how you guys do it, but to be cautious, it seems ideal to study the canon and then engage with all the secondary interpretations, as it's so easy to be misled with no one more informed around to correct some things.

Back to the topic though, I think I will go and investigate my local zen center. Why not?

and how do you gents feel about ram das

>>12880703
https://archive.org/stream/reneguenon/1925%20-%20Man%20and%20His%20Becoming%20according%20to%20the%20Vedânta#mode/2up
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf
https://archive.org/details/Brihadaranyaka.Upanishad.Shankara.Bhashya.by.Swami.Madhavananda
http://www.tbm100.org/Lib/Jha42.pdf (chandogya)

Advaitins say that the fact that you can say that "I experienced nothing" while in deep sleep is proof that you are the Witness because you supposedly can point toward being the Experiencer of nothingness. Something like that, I bet you guys know what doctrine i'm speaking of.

How do they justify this? From my point of view all this means is that you are able to point back to a point of time when you did not experience something, a gap. You're essentially just noticing a pause in experience, not that you actually witnessed the gap in itself. The fact that you can point out a gap in experience AFTER the fact is not proof of you having been the Subject of it.

>>12880652

>>12881153
Total shot in the dark, because I am a total novice, but don't meditators claim to experience nothingness directly. Could be related.

Another thought, if you experience dreams then you also experience "not dreams." This could be somthing like that.

Maybe you dont have a subjective experience of nothing, but you are a subject experiencing nothing.

Sounds kantian: our cognition constructs reality. I would imagine medically, the cognitive functions are still working while asleep (in a lower way?) so in that sense you are constructing the experience of nothing by your cognition delivering nothing to you the subject?

Undoubtedly, the above is all incorrect.

>>12880705
Right, kant says, you may go this far and no further.

Then the sages say, "I dunno, sounds debatable."

>>12880964
> like who the fuck actually thinks you obtain truth from coherence of verses about some cliche mystic poetry
People who consider the Upanishads to be revealed/divinely-sources texts, i.e. most Hindus, the same could be said for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam etc.

>>12881392
Revelation is a lie. It's just the Crowley bullshit of two thousand years ago. Channelling is just automatic writing.

>>12881392
The epistemic status of revelation has been in dispute in the West since at least Spinoza, which is why the West practically invented self-conscious Reason. It's also responsible for the disastrous side-effects of the "dialectic of enlightenment," but it is at least an advance on blind dogmatism.

Most Christian theology since 1700 has been attempting to make sense of how to interpret or receive scripture without simply willing oneself into a leap of blind faith. Especially since the 19th century, very few Christians are sola fide. Even "neo-orthodox" Barthian theology was not really "orthodox" in the sense of diehard reliance on scripture alone.

>>12868002
made me laugh

>>12881280
Kant says "this is how we must make future metaphysics in light of history and science" and the sages go "but maybe ai can teach you not to think if you pay for my being a neet and not thinking"

>>12881693
*I not ai

>>12881693
No doubt, your argument is a fairly well trod path, reliable too.

It just comes down to whether you believe individuals can have access to fundamental reality. Which a strict Kantian would not.

>>12881529
Check out the book Waking, Dreaming, Being. The whole premise of the book is the om character and three (or four?) states of conscious, etc.

>>12881820
Meant to reply to:
>>12881225
>>12881153
Modern analytic book

>dude its all pretend lmao

>>12881777
Heavenly trips. Ya. I would not be suprised if you are right. But I am too neurotic to dissolve my jiva into atma brahma. Gotta fight for my right to fight.

Name a more kino moment

>>12867492
Eastern philosophy is like self help / sociology. Western is pure autism that sometimes produces insightful tidbits. They aren’t the same. People relate more to eastern today because they just want answers, they don’t want to deal with the burden of going through the heavy lifting of seeking them with someone else and doubting yourself and challenging yourself.

>>12881976
Trial and death of Socrates. Passion of Christ.

>>12881838
Nothing wrong with that, gotta live your dharma.

>>12881529
This only damages the Christian religion even further, though.

>>12881976
props to the Buddhists for not derailing this thread to argue about whether Buddhism is better than Hinduism, or whether Hinduism is just shit Buddhism in disguise
Hope we see this general trend continue

>>12867492
Usually westerners are able to say things without using the words poo poo and pee pee so often

>>12882166
Do real Buddhists have this superiority complex, or just memesters online? Do Buddhists, who are supposed to dissolve ego, often have a lot regarding their doctrine relative to other ones?

>>12882209
It's probably like anything of this nature. It's not that you're superior, it would just be unethical to let people wander in folly when you know the "actual truth."

Christian's have a sort of analogous "hate the sinner, not the sin." Its not that I'm better than them, it's just that I know they are harming themselves.

>>12882250
True. Good explanation. But are they subdued about it or more snobby?

>>12882209
Secretly I'm moreso referring to the frequency of Hindus to do exactly what I just described in every Buddhist thread on this board, derailing them into arguments over which religion historically influenced the other in attempt to discredit Buddhism, and generally guiding the discussion towards the history of religion in India, rather than to discussion of Buddhism.
I was pretending that 'both sides are equally guilty' to play nice, but I guess it's too late for that.
I hope that I don't derail the rest of this thread as a result of this post lol

>>12882266
Only bit I've seen in this thread was a meme saying Adi Shankara was a hindu rip-off of a certain buddhism. Seemed like good natured ribbing.

>>12867492
Guys should I become a monk/pursue a Tradition, or become a charityworker, spending my career helping people for little to no pay? I like spirituality but I moreso want to help people without recompense.

>>12882284
I think that those are all noble goals, but you really shouldn't leave such massive decisions up to a tibetan throat-singing forum, and if that's not what you're doing, and you're just looking for different perspectives, I'm not sure what you would even do with the answers you get.

>>12882284
Live ethically for socity.
Serve humanity for humanity.
Love God for yourself.

Follow tradition if that is your dharma.

None of these are mutually exclusive. Nor can they be.

>>12882292
Just crowdsourcing wisdom, for someone who doesn't have many in-person contacts to speak to.

>>12882307
Thanks dude.

>>12882363
I think you can pursue and meaningfully progress with a tradition without becoming a monk. Plus AFAIK most religious monasteries don't just take up total beginners, they take devoted lay followers who have an already strong practice.
For instance, in Buddhism, Citta the Householder as mentioned in the suttas is equivalent to a patron saint of sorts in the religion, as someone to emulate. There are suttas where he teaches monks himself.
You can have meaningful connections to spirituality without being a monk, though theoretically being a monk would be the ultimate ideal in the religions that have them.

>>12882380
Thanks. Do you happen to know if monks get to do charity work? If I did decide to go that route, would it primarily be an introspective occupation or could I place myself in an extroverted, community-assisting goal because of it?

>>12867492
Unironically, how did Maya happen? Was it intended, or an unintentional side-effect? By Maya, I mean the ego/illusion of selfhood. Do we deep down enjoy forgetting our nature as God, and therefore take on personhood? Or is it accidental, and erroneous?

Guenon on the method of metaphysical realization:

>Having considered the teachings common to all traditional doctrines, trines, let us now turn to the principal stages of metaphysical realization. ization. The first, which to a certain extent is merely preliminary, operates in the human domain and does not extend beyond the limits of the individuality. It consists of an indefinite extension of that individuality of which the corporeal modality, the only modality developed in the ordinary man, represents but the smallest portion. In fact one must start from the corporeal modality, whence the use in the beginning of means borrowed from the sensible order, which means must have repercussions throughout the other modalities of the human being. In short, the phase in question is the realization or development of all the potentialities contained virtually within the human individuality, constituting multiple prolongations thereof that reach out in diverse directions beyond the corporeal and sensible realm; and it is by means of these prolongations that it is possible to establish communication with the other states.

>>12882423
>This realization of the integral individuality is described by all traditions as the restoration of what is called the "primordial state", which is regarded as the state of true man and which already escapes some of the limitations characteristic of the ordinary state, notably those due to the temporal condition. The being that has attained this "primordial state" is still only a human individual and is without effective possession of any supra-individual states. Nevertheless he is henceforth liberated from time, the apparent succession of things having been transmuted for him into simultaneity; he is in conscious possession of a faculty unknown to the ordinary man, which might be called the "sense of eternity". This is of extreme importance, for he who cannot rise above the vantage-point of temporal succession and envisage all things in simultaneous mode is incapable of the least conception of the metaphysical order. The first thing to be done by those who wish to achieve true metaphysical understanding is to step outside time-we would willingly say into "non-time", if such an expression did not seem too peculiar and unusual. This knowledge of the intemporal can, moreover, be achieved in some real measure, if incompletely, before one has attained the fullness of the "primordial state" of which we have just spoken.

>>12882428
>Perhaps it will be asked why this designation "primordial state"? It is because all traditions, including that of the West (for the Bible itself says nothing different), are in accord in teaching that this was originally the normal state for humanity, while the present state is merely the result of a decline, the effect of a kind of progressive materialization occurring down the ages and throughout the duration of a particular cycle. We do not believe in "evolution" in the sense the moderns have given the word; the so-called scientific hypotheses they have devised in no way correspond to reality. In any case, it is not possible here to make more than a passing mention of the theory of cosmic cycles,' which is particularly expounded in the Hindu doctrines; trines; to do so would be to go beyond our subject, for cosmology is not metaphysics, although it depends closely upon it. Cosmology is no more than an application of metaphysics to the physical order, while the true natural laws are only the consequences, in a relative and contingent tingent domain, of universal and necessary principles.

>>12882432
>But let us return to metaphysical realization. Its second phase corresponds to supra-individual states which are still conditioned, although their conditions are completely different from those of the human state. Here the human world in which we remained in the preceding stages has been entirely and definitively left behind. It must also be added that what has been left behind is the world of forms in its most general sense, comprising all possible individual states, for form is the condition common to all such states, by which individuality is defined as such. The being, which can no longer be called human, is henceforth free from the "current of forms", to use a Far-Eastern expression. There are moreover further distinctions to be made, for this stage can be subdivided: in reality it includes several stages, from the acquisition of states which, though non-formal, still belong to manifested existence, to the stage of universality which is that of pure being.

>>12882436
>Nevertheless, as elevated as these states are when compared to the human state, and as remote as they may be from it, they are still only relative, and this is true even of the highest among them, which corresponds responds to the principle of all manifestation. The possession thereof is thus only a transitory result that should not be confused with the ultimate goal of metaphysical realization, which lies beyond being, and in comparison with which all the rest is but a journey and preparation. This supreme goal is the absolutely unconditioned state, set free from all limitation. For this very reason it is completely inexpressible, and anything we might say about it must be put in the form of a negation, the negation of all limits that determine and define all existence in its relativity. The attainment of this state is what the Hindu doctrine calls "Deliverance" when considering it in relation to conditioned states, and "Union" when envisaged in relation to the supreme Principle.

>’why is eastern philosophy so based lmao shankara.jpeg’ thread #108

has guenonfag ever convinced anyone in this board ever? He so badly wants to have daily trad generals that he resorts to shitposting the same format every time. it’s just sad at this point.

>>12882441
>Moreover, all other states of the being can in principle be found in this unconditioned state, but transformed, disengaged from the particular conditions that determined them as special states. What subsists is everything that has a positive reality, since it is there that everything has its principle; the "delivered" being is truly in possession of the fullness of its own potentialities. What have disappeared are merely the limiting conditions, of which the reality is negative, since they represent no more than a "privation" in the Aristotelian sense of the word. Thus, far from being a kind of annihilation, as some Westerners believe, this final state is on the contrary absolute plenitude, the supreme reality compared to which all else is but illusion.

>>12882448
>Let us add too that every result, even partial, obtained by the being in the course of metaphysical realization, is obtained definitively. For this being, the result is a permanent acquisition that nothing can ever take from it; the work accomplished in this order, even if interrupted rupted before it is completed, is achieved once and for all by the very fact that it is outside of time. This is true even of simple theoretical knowledge, for all knowledge carries its benefit within it, in this way quite different from action, which is but a momentary modification of the being and is always distinct from its own effects. Furthermore, these effects are of the same domain and the same order of existence as that which has produced them; action cannot effectively liberate from action, and its consequences cannot reach beyond the limits of individuality, even when this is considered in its fullest possible extension. sion. Action of any sort, not being opposed to the ignorance that is the root of all limitation, cannot dispel that ignorance; only knowledge can dispel ignorance, as sunlight disperses shadow, and it is at this point that the "Self", the immutable and eternal principle of all manifested and unmanifested states, appears in its supreme reality.

>>12882446
bro just give it a rest, you're the only ones posting about him at this point. let it go

>>12882457
>Let us add too that every result, even partial, obtained by the being in the course of metaphysical realization, is obtained definitively. For this being, the result is a permanent acquisition that nothing can ever take from it; the work accomplished in this order, even if interrupted rupted before it is completed, is achieved once and for all by the very fact that it is outside of time. This is true even of simple theoretical knowledge, for all knowledge carries its benefit within it, in this way quite different from action, which is but a momentary modification of the being and is always distinct from its own effects. Furthermore, these effects are of the same domain and the same order of existence as that which has produced them; action cannot effectively liberate from action, and its consequences cannot reach beyond the limits of individuality, even when this is considered in its fullest possible extension. sion. Action of any sort, not being opposed to the ignorance that is the root of all limitation, cannot dispel that ignorance; only knowledge can dispel ignorance, as sunlight disperses shadow, and it is at this point that the "Self", the immutable and eternal principle of all manifested and unmanifested states, appears in its supreme reality. After this brief and very imperfect sketch, which provides only the weakest notion of what metaphysical realization might be, it is absolutely essential to stress one point in order to avoid grave errors of interpretation: nothing referred to here has any connection whatsoever with phenomena of any kind, however extraordinary they may be. All phenomena are of the physical order; metaphysics is beyond phenomena, nomena, even taking the word in its widest sense. Among other consequences, quences, it follows from this that the states to which we are referring are in no way "psychological"; this must be stated plainly, since strange confusions sometimes arise in this connection.

>>12882396
I only know of examples in the Buddhist context, but Bhikkhu Bodhi, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Ajahn Brahm AFAIK do a lot of engaged charitable work, and activist stuff as well, even though they're monks (albeit slightly unorthodox monks).
I'm sure those aren't the only examples, and that there are probably many others that I just don't know of.
If you want to know about these sorts of things with other religions, you'll have to ask others as I don't really know, sorry.

>>12882464
Ignore this one, double post.

>>12882457
>After this brief and very imperfect sketch, which provides only the weakest notion of what metaphysical realization might be, it is absolutely essential to stress one point in order to avoid grave errors of interpretation: nothing referred to here has any connection whatsoever with phenomena of any kind, however extraordinary they may be. All phenomena are of the physical order; metaphysics is beyond phenomena, nomena, even taking the word in its widest sense. Among other consequences, quences, it follows from this that the states to which we are referring are in no way "psychological"; this must be stated plainly, since strange confusions sometimes arise in this connection.

>>12882446
Why are you so mean to him? How does your conscience not stop you from harrassing some harmless stranger, who merely sharing his personal favorite philosophies?

>>12882487
make a confrontational thread, get a confrontational response.

>>12882493
I don't think Guenondude made this thread.

>>12882487
>>12882506
because you very often samefag like this and defend "him," also because you are very disingenuous yourself and pester people while anonymous to defend your positions

i wouldn't mind if you were just weird, the problem is that when you're left to your own devices you fill entire threads with samefagging, you ruin existing eastern thought threads, and eventually you metastatize and begin creating guenon/eastern thought flamewar threads and ruining all discussion of those topics on the board

>>12882506
>same format as his other threads
>same style of posting
>30+ mentions of guenon
>chainposting guenon quotes
>’guenondude’

>>12882487
Hes spamming the same thread despite his last one being deleted yesterday, when will it get to his thick skull that this isn’t the board for him

>>12882554
>>12882566
I'm not the original guy, or the one who made the thread. I posted the guenon quotes and have been contributing.

I'm very interested in Traditionalism and I've enjoyed this thread.

You can see me, and who I'd guess was the original guy going back and forth above.

Probably wont believe me, but there it is.

>>12882551
>hey guy let's have an eastern thought thread with a little good-natured teasing!
OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK I HATE GUENON DID I TELL YOU THAT ONLY GUENON FANBOYS LIKE THESE EASTERN SCHOOL, NO YOU CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT EASTERN THOUGHT WE HAVE TO MAKE THE THREAD ABOUT GUENON AND/OR GUENONFAG!!!! AAARRRGGH!!! FUCK!!! GUENON GUENON GUENON GUENON!!!!

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Amen

>>12880680
Hinayana BTFO! Mahayana all the way baby

>>12882644
based christposter

>>12880665
Don't you mean heraclitus?

>>12882551
>>12882554
>>12882566
That might be true, but regardless I think you guys are genuinely cruel, and enjoying picking on some poor guy. If he wrote the OP, then it's clearly meant to be lighthearted banter, yet you guys treat him like he was some kind of devil on this board, who you may rightfully insult and abuse. You should re-evaluate your lives, and gain some compassion for others. Otherwise you're just LARPing as spiritual, just like you think Guenonguy is LARPing as random strangers.

>>12882653
Proper Mahayana is rad but my gripes with it are that so many neophytes tend to gravitate towards it, take the Bodhisattva vow once and turn into Californian Buddhists who do none of the practices, and know none of the theory.
This doesn't tend to happen with Theravada, although when Theravadins get too sectarian they have their own set of problems.

>>12882627
I want that one meme, with the orthodox and catholic talking and the protestant goes screeching.

But its traditionalists and orientalists talking, when they come screeching about guenon posters being lame.

Lol

/lit/ is a Guenon board

>>12882704
Guenon would be one of those Catholic LARPs

>>12867492
How does one deal with the pain of ego loss? I love the illusion of being a person, and I want to be one forever. I never want to escape Samsara. I want to have a loving girlfriend and for me and her to be together forever. The last thing I want is to realize that I was never actually anyone, and that my loving girlfriend was really me too, and all the rest of that.

Should I just not pursue the spiritual path? And be worldly instead? Because dissolving the ego is not something I'll ever want to do. I want to love my girlfriend and be loved by her back, forever and ever and ever and ever. In my next life, and every life after.

>>12882794
Buddha taught right action as a way to reduce the suffering of existence.

If you love life, if you desire to remain, you will. In countless incarnations you will grow tired of the suffering and will move towards the path of the sages.

Follow your dharma. It's not for everyone to deny the whole world.

Or at least, that might be the answer an adept would give.

>>12867492
Because Eastern philosophers are dumbasses who smoke all day long and do nothing with themselves.

>>12882839
Why does reality have to be SO CRUEL? Why must we suffer in the first place, if we are the ones that reality revolves around? Why can't we not age and grow old? Why can't we be with our loved ones forever? Why must I eventually, in some life, renounce the world and then escape it, instead of being able to live in it, and have a girlfriend, who I love, and be with her within it forever? I hate reality so much. Why is reality's layout so fundamentally cruel?

>>12882848
no flame pls

>>12882859
It is one of the mysteries that I dont know the answer to. Some say it was a fall from grace, a forgetting. How could God forget Himself? Some say it was a cosmic trap, but how could God be fooled? Perhaps it was neccessary, but necessity requires a lacking. How could God lack for anything?

It is not for us to question God, because to question Him is too painful.

All we can do is attempt to love.

>>12882882
I don't know, dude...all I know is that I hate this reality I find myself in, and see no solution to its inherent problems...

>>12867492
How does Indian philosophy address the Problem of Evil? Why is there suffering? Is it because of our karma needing to be paid off? Are there other realms for beings with better karma, who don't have to suffer?

I find this such a huge problem personally, and I'd love to know what Indian religions answer it by.

>>12867632
IMAGINE STILL THINKING
IN TERMS OF

SYSTEMS
IDEA REALMS
PHILOSOPHER'S NOTIONS
CONSIDERING ONES PAST SELF TO BE FOOLISH

>>12882965
why are u yelling

>>12882859
The Buddha refused to reveal why our world works the way it does because it would only derail us. His invitation to take up the path is saying "Certainly, it is cruel that none of this can last, but I know the solution, so come on." And it's scary to imagine what comes next, but we have his assurance that it's an improvement, so it's best not to stress the details and give the path a try.

I mean, it is sad, isn't it? We have some 80 years in our lives, or about 4000 months, and when we suffer, it feels like an eternity, yet love it, and it passes in the blink of an eye. I feel sympathetic with Schopenhauer's idea that we're not built to be content, not wired that way, and this is what we can try to see if it's better. When it hits, it becomes, "My god, I was never thinking at all. I wasn't living as if I would die." That illusion. But once we know it, we must not give up learning. We have to keep trying, because there's nothing else.

>>12882978
>4000 months
I meant weeks. Months would be 960.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Not my will but thine be done.

>>12882627
t. seething guenonfag

>>12882670
>aw he a poor boy he dindu nuffin why so serious
i don't know if spamming this board needlessly with the same picture masquerading as trad general threads is reason enough to hate this schizo (that or his constant shitposting)? Just to remind you this is supposedly an eastern philosophy thread that derailed into a trad discussion halfway through (just as OP/guenonfag intended). It isn't even a subcategory of eastern thought, its an amalgamation of several traditions (hence why its perennial), its no different than analyzing Taoism by studying Marco Polo.

>You should re-evaluate your lives, and gain some compassion for others
it's funny, guenonfag is actually the one who has yet to embody his own philosophy. Despite the serene and tranquil knowledge he espouses, all we get from him are temper tantrums and triggered responses. He even said one time that he'd like to be able to reach a higher state of consciousness someday. Lmao, imagine a guy like him who has an ego the size of the Everest ever becoming 'enlightened'.

>>12883351
Thanks for the bump.

Also: >>12882704

>>12883375
no problem, you were going to self bump this thread anyway.

>>12883406
Oh man, you got me. This is true.

Believe it or not, I am not the original guenon poster, nor the thread maker. I actually really like Traditionalism and like seeing these threads here.

>>12882416
Can someone answer this? Really, how did Maya arise in the first place from the simple, undivided brahman?

>>12867492
Eastern thought is not “philosophy”, insofar as philosophy as a term denotes a western language game / discourse with its origins in Hellas. Calling far east thinkers “philosophers” is culturally insensitive and judging their thinking by the standards of western philosophical discourse, or judging western philosophical discourse in comparison to these, is misguided and confused.

People romanticize about the exoric orient because they are estranged from their own tradition. It’s sad and wrong.

>>12882974
WHY AREN'T YOU YELLING

Schuon's Art

>>12883718

>>12883724

>>12870008
This is something that is quite frustrating about reading Guenon. Obviously that's the point, that you can't apprehend true metaphysics exoterically, instead, it is intellectual intuition that will get you closest to an idea of Being.
The rites of initiation are important here.

>>12883736
Thank you, I also posted a excerpt where he goes into some detail on the basic method of metaphysical apprehension.
Here: >>12882423

>>12883736
>>12883745
Also, this describes his methods a little.

>>12880558
It sums up the European spirit quite accurately. As Nietzsche wrote:

The story of Prometheus belongs from the beginning to the entire Aryan community of peoples and is evidence of their gift for the profound and the tragic, indeed it may not be beyond the bounds of probability that this myth contains precisely the same characteristic meaning for the Aryan character which the myth of the Fall possesses for the Semitic character, and that these two myths are related to one another like brother and sister. The presupposition of the Prometheus myth is the extravagant value ascribed by the naïveté of mankind to fire as the true palladium of every ascending culture: but that man should freely control fire and not merely receive it as a gift from heaven, sparked off by a bolt of lightning or ignited by the heat of the sun, appeared to the contemplative original man as a sacrilege, as a theft committed against divine nature.

And so the first philosophical problem immediately establishes an embarrassing insoluble contradiction between man and god, placed like a boulder before the gate of every culture. The best and the highest blessing which humanity can receive is achieved through sacrilege and its consequences must be accepted, namely the whole flood of suffering and troubles with which the insulted gods have no other choice but to afflict humanity as it strives nobly upward: a severe thought which, through the dignity ascribed to the sacrilege, stands in strange contrast to the Semitic myth of the Fall, in which curiosity, dissimulation, the susceptibility to be led astray, lasciviousness, in short a series of eminently feminine feelings, are viewed as the origin of evil.

What distinguishes the Aryan conception is the sublime view of the active sin as the real Promethean virtue: which at the same time reveals the ethical substratum of pessimistic tragedy as the justification of human evil, and even of human guilt as the suffering caused by it. The misfortune in the essence of things—which the contemplative Aryan is disinclined to interpret away—the contradiction in the heart of the world reveals itself to him as a collision of different worlds, for example of a divine and a human world, each of which individually has right on its side, but must suffer for its individuation as an individual world alongside others. In the heroic impulse towards the universal, in the attempt to step outside the spell of individuation and to become the single essence of the world, the individual suffers within himself the original contradiction hidden in things, that is, he commits sacrilege and suffers. In this way, sacrilege is understood by the Aryans as male, sin by the Semites as female, just as the original sacrilege is committed by man and the original sin committed by woman.

>>12882446
Yeah, imagine someone actually contributing to this board by posting informative and well-meaning content

>>12883802
Heck yes!

We had a bunch of accelerationism threads that didnt bother anyone. Not to mention the endless shelf threads and read/expected/got.

These trad threads keep my mind on being a better person.

Anyone have favorite Traditionalist publishers:

Sophia Perennis
World Wisdom
Inner Traditions
Matheson Trust
Angelico Press
St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood
Angelus Press
Prometheus Books

>>12867492
What's the point of doing anything anon? Stuff was written before the time of instant information sharing. This stuff took years anon. YEARS. Everyone had to figure these things out for themselves

>>12882464
>>12882464
Still difficult to understand what he means, which seems to be the point really.

>>12883988
I dont pretend to have a deep grasp of Guenon. Plus its translated from French. What I do grasp is inspiring.

Thanks for taking a look.

>>12882978
Has any other eastern thought system ventured to say why the world works the way it does?

>>12882166
Why would we? There's similarities in both and solves nothing from trying to argue differences.
>>12882209
Mostly memesters online. Real ones don't bother themselves with trivial matters that solve nothing.

Life is painful friends, stay true. An escape from the burden of being a limited flawed individual, on into the infinite, is a beautiful gift.

>>12883441
Something something maya is uncreated and is beginningless, Maya IS Brahman. something something experiencing itself... something something Maya is not unreal nor real... something not unreal because experienced but ultimately also not real because sublated... something rather... something Maya is the power of Ishvara... something two powers of Maya are projection and delusion...

>>12867492
I had forgotten how Leibniz and Bolzano and Husserl were totally ripping off some random easterner.

>>12884152
ya but why?

>>12884223
Ours is not to reason why.
Ours is but to do and die.

>>12884227
and you know this a priori?

>>12884152
Do other schools give different, better answers?

>>12882794
I can't tell if my answer will be appropriate because you're mixing stuff from Buddhism with Hinduism in this post.
From the Buddhist perspective, renunciation is not forced and painful, it is a natural, painless result of practicing the Eightfold Path. This comes as a result of developing right view, sila, and eventually meditation as well.
Loss of belief in a seperate self or "I" comes similarly, without pain. In fact, this insight is possibly the most liberating and feels great when it is realized. I imagine this is what you mean by "ego death" (although there is nothing in Buddhism that says "you are everyone and everyone is you").

>>12882794
Also anon, you'd be in a bit of a predicament if you want to be reborn with your girlfriend, because the Buddha taught that that is possible:
if you both practice Dhamma together.

>>12882961
AFAIK in Buddhism, suffering is caused by ignorance, if there was no ignorance there would be no suffering.
Pain and unfortunate life conditions are largely created by karma, though. Whether these conditions cause you to suffer or not depends on how ignorant you are.

>>12882961
Also yes I think this actually applies to most Dharmic religious cosmologies, where there are heavenly realms in which the beings there live for an absurdly long time, and feel no pain or hardship, it's just pleasure for their entire life.
(In Buddhism however, this can be a risk because a life like that of unlimited indulgence burns off a lot of good karma, and one can be reborn in a lower painful realm in the next life afterwards. These heavenly lives are also considered impermanent.)

>>12882961
>The author identifies some 25 historical solutions to the problem which are then reduced. Beginning with the problem of evil in the west professor A.L. Herman traces the history of one of the most fascinating of all perennial philosophical puzzles. The author identifies some twenty one historical solutions to the problem which are then reduced to eight quite distinct solutions. Prof. Herman then turns in the second part of the book to the history of the problem of evil in Indian thought. The author then joins the analysis of the problem of evil (taken from the first part of the book) to the Indian doctrine of rebirth in order to attempt a solution to the problem. By careful analysis the author shows that the doctrine of rebirth can satisfy the conditions already set forth as adequate for a solution to the problem of evil.

>>12883441
Some areas of Hindu thought give the answer as 'Lila', which sorta means the spontaneous divine play, and this Lila is why the unreal world was created and experienced, because in a sense it is the disport of Brahman. The question has to do with the 'descent of the soul' which nobody really has a rock-solid irrefutable answer for. I also see the answers from Neoplatonism and Sufism as somewhat applying, namely that unreal creation is a consequences of Brahman's 'fullness' or 'not-nothingness', in the sense of being water overflowing a basin or light coming off of the sun.

>Brahman is full of all perfections. And to say that Brahman has some purpose in creating the world will mean that it wants to attain through the process of creation something which it has not. And that is impossible. Hence, there can be no purpose of Brahman in creating the world. The world is a mere spontaneous creation of Brahman. It is a Lila, or sport, of Brahman. It is created out of Bliss, by Bliss and for Bliss. Lila indicates a spontaneous sportive activity of Brahman as distinguished from a self-conscious volitional effort. The concept of Lila signifies freedom as distinguished from necessity.

>the all-comprehensive Divine Being in its cosmic aspect of playful, aimless display (lila)—which precipitates pain as well as joy, but in its bliss transcends them both.

>>12884591
Thanks, I guess I was following my own perspectives on the subject, namely of ourselves as being purely awareness and not individuals, making it such that, like after waking from a dream, one realizes everyone one saw was actually oneself, and that everyone is quite literally identical in a very real sense, aside from the differences in our particularities. That might all be totally wrong though, I'm sure Buddhism has a more correct view of it. That was just my own personal view, and it made me really sad in a sense. That everyone else was only a mirror of myself, all of us were one but pretending to be many. Sorry if that sounds like a pretentious, naive student's attempt at philosophizing.

>>12884612
Ah, I see.

Do any of you also have advice for someone who began seeing "static" everywhere a few months ago? I originally thought it was my eyesight messing up, but later looked it up and found my experience accurately described by spiritual resources, claiming it to be a spiritual ability. I can see static on the walls, and all throughout the air, along with very slight glowing auras coming off of objects, plants, animals and people, that have basic colors to them. It's not very strong, but I can definitely see all of this and I'm not making that up. This said, what do you guys think I should do? Should I find a Buddhist teacher in person and ask them about it? I don't really care for this ability, it initially grew my ego ("I'm the chosen one!" etc) but I later grew out of such delusions, and at this point I just want to know whether I should at least be developing it further or simply ignore it and treat it like it's not there. It doesn't factor into my perception of myself anymore, either positively or negatively. Again, I'm not lying or LARPing, I can absolutely see tiny static particles everywhere and also see auras on things, but I just need serious, non-NewAge advice on what to do about it.

>>12884606
>>12884598
Oh and thanks for these answers too. I would personally want to be reborn with my girlfriend, but again, the fact that impermanence has to be a feature of reality at all, such that rebirth is needed, starting over instead of continuing on without disruption, is what depresses me most about Buddhist cosmology, if it's indeed true.

>>12884179
Of course Leibniz ripped off the indians. The vedas explain how to do calculus.

>>12885538
stop the flame war, pls

>>12884370
As a category neccessary for experience? Yes.

>just finished the Ashtavakra Gita
>https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html
Is Advaita the religion for depressed people?
>do nothing
>care about nothing
>nothing you do or not do have any meaning

This exactly won't cure my depression that is for sure.

>>12885371
anon, I can see your predicament is a serious one. I too have had this affliction and sought out pragmatic spiritual advice. It was suggested to me by a wise sage, that in order to assimilate the static and aura's in one perceptual field one should not spend a second of waking life without a VR headset on. From dusk till dawn, so to speak. Godspeed, anon.

>>12885385
There's a good article by Nick Sand I believe entitled notes on psychedelic sexual etiquette but it appears to have been taken offline...

Tl;dr: two competing metaphysics of sex "all in one" -- there is only one goddess (and one god) and she is and ever will be at your side so be loyal and so on -- and "one in all" -- every one and every girl is a goddess or god and the great play of creation is constant sexual union samadhi union of purusha and prakriti and shiva and shakti of you and everything and everyone else so there is no infidelity.

Kinda new age but it jives with me a lot. Me and my ex used to joke about how we would be separated if we reincarnated cause she is a sweeter person than me and she'd say she'd reincarnate as anything for me even if she has more karma cred. Alas we seaparated and now she is married. Met a few girls since and had wonderful experiences but still miss her. Sad times.


If you think on a long enough timescale there is a chance vedically and scientifically to be reincarnated as yourself again and meet your current love again.

Escaping rebirth is not for householders (couples) generally. Unless you are new age and believe in twinflames and shit.

>>12883954
Numen books

>>12885371
Quit smoking weed. That gave me static.

>>12885628
Brill is a neat publisher, no doubt.

>>12885712
New thread
>>12885712

>>12885385
>the fact that impermanence has to be a feature of reality at all, such that rebirth is needed, starting over instead of continuing on without disruption, is what depresses me most about Buddhist cosmology, if it's indeed true.
I mean, this isn't exactly exclusively a feature of Buddhist cosmology. It's just life. Do you see any immortal humans walking around? Everyone dies.

>>12885371
Yea the static is just phenomena, nothing remotely important. It signifies nothing. I think I've read that some people get that after they've taken a lot of drugs. I've also read about people having that just as a natural condition from birth, with no significance to anything other than perceiving a weird visual effect.
Also your post about "everyone being just a mirror of me" sounds vaguely Vedanta-like. I suggest finding a tradition you find interesting and actually pursuing it seriously. Experimenting with Eastern religious traditions through the internet and mixing together terminology in attempt to fit your preconceived ideas about reality, tends to not really lead anywhere, as you might imagine. Not that that's what you're doing, but a lot of people seem to do that. Since you mention Buddhism, there is a chart you can follow that has already been posted in this thread:
>>12881169

>>12886239
I think you misread what I said.

>>12886319
Understood, thank you. Personally I took LSD once when I was 18, and did see the static then, but I've never taken drugs since and this newfound sight of them came without them. I'll try working through that chart. And yes you're right, I do have preconceived notions of reality, but they are in no way solid nor meant to speak on behalf of existing Eastern traditions, just my own views that you guys can correct at your leisure.

>>12868002
>Deng Hsu
>Tibetan teen
Sure, chink