/lit/ - Literature

True classics? All of them.

>>12875782

>>12875782
What far right ideas does it promote?

>>12875782
all adorno books

>>12875800
myth science

>>12875782
If you waltz in to a modern progressive setting and start using oldschool marxist rhetoric you will be identified as a cryptofascist within about 5 minutes

all Marxists with any clout now defer to race and gender politics above class

Unironically, Foucault's oeuvre.

>>12875800
After studying the works of Marx, Lenin and the Situationist International and applying their radical critiques to a contemporary class configuration characterised by the hegemony of an ideologically progressive managerial gynocracy, I have come to the irrevocable conclusion that Cisgender White Men and Gamers are in fact the one true revolutionary subject.

le narcissism man
>>12875829

Lasch+Foucault synthesis is a far right populist uprising waiting to happen

>>12875800
tell me, how can you square situationism with identity politics? answer: you can't

>>12876020
>Leftism is identity politics
>Anti identity politics is right wing
Why are conservatives fucking retarded

>>12875808
Progressives with heads full of social theory (sjw) are not Marxists or communists.
True, race and gender issues infest even newly converted socialists, but they must come around to the main problem of the class war or fall miserably behind.
But duh, minorities are marginalized, lumpen proletarians. Black socialists of today see brothers and sisters in this new Redneck Rebellion group.

>>12876034
face it, the true heirs of the situationist international are the national bolsheviks, the order of nine angles, Sam Hyde/MDE and Nick Land. Leftists have embraced a corporate culture of consumerism and conformity.

>>12876047
>but they must come around to the main problem of the class war or fall miserably behind.
This never happens. The left had been completely and irrevocably subsumed by liberalism.

>>12876070
liberals you mean

>>12876081
No, Leftists.

>>12875866
there is absolutely authoritarian right-wing governments would be somehow compatible with Foucault's critique of power

>>12876094
You describe liberals.

>>12876080
>Nothing ever changes
HA!
Are you tying to make me sad or something? Bombast isn’t working.

>>12875849
Unironically this but /lit/ brainlets won't get it.

>>12876081
Yes, leftists. Point to a leftist that isn't captured by 'embraced a corporate culture of consumerism and conformity'. Actually, point to a leftist that rejects idpol at all, and no, I don't mean just the idpol of their 'opponents' or extremes, everyone does that.

>>12876105
He describes leftists. Which at this point in history are a species of liberal. See De Jouvenel's high/low vs. middle.

>>12876103
I am an anarchiste de droite like Junger, Celine, in American terms a William Burroughs Republican.

>>12876125
is being a criminal anarchist

>>12876118
liberals*

>>12876133
How does it feel being the means by which the liberal elite destroy the middle-class and secure their power? A veritable pawn, or puppet.

>>12876130
illegalism. the bonnot gang. turn of the century individual anarchists cited stirner as a justification for their life of crime

>>12876161
how does it feel to have been baited I mean holy shit I'm not that guy but come on sude

>>12875849
All praise to the Great Purging, brother

>>12876177
Not that guy but you just got baited as well lmao

>>12875800
Capitalism corrodes culture to the point where representation subordinates reality

>>12876103
maybe the enlightened cybernetic panopticon of managerial psychiatric power, is, despite its impeccable liberal intersectional credentials, actually more authoritarian in a society of control kinda way than the old disciplinary societies? Remember Foucault was an advocate for corporal punishment and an admirer of the middle ages. tell me why is it that anyone who takes a stand against the corporate systems of control, anyone who takes a stand against the culture of consumerism and conformity instantly labelled as 'far right'?

>>12875782

>>12876118
>he describes liberals which I will hereby identify as liberals
And red is red. You liberals sure love to rebrand things. You work in advertising kid?

>>12876110
>>>/v/

>>12876130
>>12876169
Law is an evil form of fiction

>>12876214
Thank you for the serious answer. But I don’t think that’s ever been a rightwing idea. They did oppose the liberals after they saw the conditions in factory towns, but they supported the monarchy and pleaded with the church. They’re always running back to representations of reality

>>12875790
too flat

>>12876235
>You liberals sure love to rebrand things
Are you one of those retarded leftists that thinks rights, gender equality, racial equality etc. are leftist ideas? You're in for one rough ride, sweety.

>>12876047
I'd say Orthodox Marxism nowadays would be called "fascist" more because it wasn't opposed to the advance of capitalism against traditional communities, since it saw that as a natural precursor of communism.

I can't speak for the whole world, but where I live, in Latin America, the left is strongly aligned with indigenous groups and traditional communities that oppose the advance of commercial agriculture and industry, for example. From the point of view of Marxism that would be reactionary politics, but here it is considered a symbol of progressive allegiance.

>>12876105
Liberal ideology is inherently leftist you fucking pig whore.

>in which yet AGAIN people argue with each other about whether Leftist means 'everything opposed to monarchy' or 'only that which opposes capitalism'
Words were a mistake

>>12876264
< I’m one of these kinds of leftists
“Leftist” being a shorthand of sorts that do indeed champion various sorts of freedom projects.

>>12876235
>But I don’t think that’s ever been a rightwing idea. They did oppose the liberals after they saw the conditions in factory towns, but they supported the monarchy and pleaded with the church. They’re always running back to representations of reality

Whatever they did or did not do, it cannot be in doubt that traditional values are atomized and crushed under the spectacle. Left or right, if you are opposed to capitalism one should be able to accept Debord's conclusions.

>>12876271
How did the left ever manage to construe this book as "their own" in the first place? Did leftists just see the word "anarchism" and his association with Lakatos and assume it was for them?

>>12875849
I'm shocked to read such a good post on this board full of drooling brainlets.

>>12875849
This is the same conclusion I've been moving towards in the last 4 months. I've been practising and exploring the consuming female witch magic too. Seeing the esoteric and blatantly sinister workings of it all. How they ultimately deny base reality, using it by letting the higher realities drown it. Killing it.

>>12876299
I would call Marxists, Marxist-Leninists and all tankies authoritarians no better than fascists.
They’re all kinds of messed up no matter how well intentioned they are.

>>12876309
Tell that to an Australian. They’re primarily capitalists, they have a right and a left, but they’re just about continuing capitalism. Not socialist leftism.

>>12876347
Sounds very Adam Curtis like. I’d probably agree with plenty.

>>12875782
This is a subtler version of “The Bell Curve”

>It's another thread where retards argue left vs right

Why is /lit/ so clueless about politics? You need to read more essays instead of novels.

>>12876374
You realize this is a memebook full of stupid blatant false claims, do you?

>>12876374
>>12876392
Also wrote by one of (((them)))

>>12875782

>>12876326
>freedom projects
Lmao you're a liberal.
>hold beliefs that are the product of a capitalist/liberal political paradigm created to bolster said capitalist/liberal poltical paradigm
>claim to be an opponent of capitalism and liberalism
Pick one.

>>12876374
>Racism is idiotic and wrong and the worst evil ever
>But the Papua New Guineans are smarter than Europeans because of evolutionary pressures in the past few thousand years

>>12876374
This kills the Diamond

>>12876034
You can hardly blame rightists for the common conception of this anon....

I mean fuck its difficult to watch the amount of time The Left takes in talking about these issues. I was listening to Chapo Trap House today and they were upset that Ben Shapiro hides behind his Jewish identity when it’s convenient. I laughed out loud. And they’re far from being wrapped up in social theory like most modern Leftists.

>>12876479
Is Chapo any worth listening to?
Even when you say they aren't wrapped up in social theory like most leftists, I have my doubts.

>>12875849
Fucking THIS. I use things I learned as a leftist to identify propaganda and arrive at right wing conclusions every day. In so many words, the right have inherited post-modernism. When will the book about this come out??

>>12876399
But I in no way bolster capitalism.
But once again, anon just slings garbage and offers nothing about themselves. A cowardly troll.

>>12876422
Zebras are actually pretty bad draft animals though. They are incredibly antsy and have to be trained and conditioned far more then a regular horse for example. Its usually not worth the resources outside of amusement.

>>12876499
Oh c’mon! Vidya gamers are the only tru revolutionaries?
What a joke. Has to be some samefagging

>>12876502
>but in no way bolster capitalism
All of us do, just a question how much.
I doubt you're some consumerist whore, but I don't see your kind having any solutions in breaking up the choking grasp of capital.

>>12876491
They try to be entertaining before being political which I appreciate. If you grew up in the 2000’s as a liberal you will probably like it. They’re far from being radicals or anything even though they call themselves socialists but they speak for a large voiceless sect of modern leftism. For example they laugh at the MSM and never get caught up in conspiracies like RussiaGate, it’s basically socialism for white men and while they’re more concerned with class than intersectionality they sometimes still have the same affect of sanctimony that a lot of young leftists have. It’s just a refreshing show for many reasons, for example they had the leftist viewpoint on why globalism should be opposed being explored recently which is how I was originally introduced to globalism and market hegemony. It’s hard not to roll my eyes and superfluous disclaimers they had to put before the topic about racism. In many ways this style of thinking is being left in the dust, I Identify with some of their ideas but the progressive left attacks them (obviously) and after the paradigm shift where the right has inherited post-modernism,post-irony, and things like neoreaction and accelerationism it almost just makes me feel sad for them. If you feel like having fun or making any kind of contribution to the arts and you’re white it most likely will be right wing going forward.

>>12876527
I mean, eastern communists are unironically making a lot of headway. Especially in Russia where competing groups are riding the tide of both an emerging left-wing youth and an extremely USSR nostalgic boomer population.

>>12876553
That's a nice, conclusive post.
I might check them out.
I agree on the right inheriting the arts, although it makes me feel sanctimonious as I'd liken myself to the right wing more than the left.

>>12876511
The fact that you can reduce white male identity down to something like “gamers” is exactly why you’re losing so badly. I’m not claiming any of these men are victims in the classic sense simply that they’re relegated in such a way that they’re the most desperate to pierce through the spectacle (thanks Debord) and don’t have the corporate backing of MTV and cultural hegemony of the progressive left. It’s creating some interesting affects. But to be honest the saddest part of it is many of these men agree with your points almost exclusively, the emptiness of capitalism or modernity and the job opportunities and romantic deprivation of the white working class posits them in such a way that they can identify with you. But you can’t get over your tawdry social issues or your own ego long enough to humanize them, which is obviously what the corporate overlords count on. It’s just another division in the working class that many like you are more than happy to play to because of your own pathology.

>>12876527
They’ve had since the 60’s and nothing they’ve done has worked, only been appropriated into the spectacle. Violence is maybe the only option and I say this as a staunch opponent to political violence.

>>12876527
It takes a lot of organizational efforts. I’m getting it into my head that I have to learn to be one of the organizers. Because there’s solutions, and they’ll come on strong once this nation is crippled enough by the next (or following) crash.

>>12876565
Sounds encouraging. Have any links to read on his?

>>12876596
Are you happy that it takes political polarization to effectively inspire communist communities and get any cohesion behind your ideology? It almost feels like a death march towards mutually assured destruction and you’re happy about it. This is why Camus was right and Sarte was wrong.

>>12876580
it would be a shame if SOMEONE detonated series of electromagnetic pulse charges in strategic location all over the pacific continental shelf of the north american continent and started kidnapping technical specialists working in [REDACTED]

>>12876502
You choose to hold beliefs that are the product of a liberal capitalist paradigm; you preserve said liberal capitalist paradigm. Just wait until you learn that the womens liberation movement was the product of capitalism expanding the pool of available human capital and exploitable consumer identities. You're in for one rough ride, sweety.

>>12876596
I think I've talked to you about this before, the pitfalls of political activism with no coherrent leadership or hierarchy, no?
I still find dubious that anything, but a violent revolt will fix this.
And I'm not American.
Also, as other Anon pointed out, the "doomers", gamers, CIS White Men, or however you categorise them, would be sympathetic towards your ideas.
Are you willing to make allies of them?

Countless examples, I must say.

>>12876621
Kinky

>>12876499
It already did, but no one listened.

>>12876645
Who is this, recommend me the book and I’ll read it anon.

>>12875849
I agree with this so wow this is very correct post.
wow.

>>12876573
1. That post identified them as gamers
2. I come from “white trash” Christian-conservativism, so I have always sympathized with them, talked directly with some about actual “leftism” (they are made the butt of jokes by the liberal left in order to keep the lower classes at each other’s throats)
But this is a paraphrase of what you said. I am not throwing sjw issues in their face. I am not one of those easily manipulated lefties, whichever side of capitalism they’re on.

>>12876614
Why would violence make me happy?

>>12876625
It could be peaceful, but I fear it will not.
Yes, always ready to make allies

>>12876655
Oswald Spengler - Decline of the West

>>12876663
Fuck off, pseud.

Louis Althusser, Michel Foucault, Jacques Derrida, and Roland Barthes, basically all the big Post-Structuralists. By the time I got around to Judith Butler the damage was done.

Althusser in particular is ironic considering he was a lifelong communist and his work was actually meant to prop up communism. I was exposed to him while in college (English lit major) and at the time I was a hardcore progressive liberal. I left college a right-leaning independent with no real political affiliation, largely thanks to those authors I mentioned. They blew apart my conceptions of liberalism.

>>12876565
>Sounds encouraging. Have any links to read on his?
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/12/19/nostalgia-for-soviet-union-hits-14-year-high-russia-poll-says-a63884
Russian nostalgia for the USSR is at an all time high among both the younger and older populations and the discourse has started to get pushed more and more to the left given the cuts. If you want a better idea, try talking to the Russian anons on 2ch's /USSR/. Warning, they ban Americans pretty quickly given their history posting there so clarify before you post that you're trying to ask in good faith.

>>12876596
>Sounds encouraging. Have any links to read on his?
Not him but found this https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/26/protesters-in-russia-today-are-younger-poorer-and-further-left-than-a-decade-ago-a64958

>>12876708
Meant for >>12876596

>>12876663
I’m happy to hear that you’re genuinely interested in these men and their feelings and can see the same thing they (we) see but I’m also surprised because of your general affect. Maybe it speaks to my own pathology because I’m so strained from the corporate sloganeering if anti-male sentiment. I’m fully open to conceding that it’s a possibility. A few things though; I go where the arts goes and the most exciting things to me are artists like The Book Club or Sam Hyde. In truth I want women to understand and desire me completely and I want to experience all of these emotions of understanding and love but it gives me a heavy heart to think that my issues are always illegitimate in the eyes of women generally and only as a result of corporate propaganda. I can see that you’re a classic communist but this gets at the heart of the issue: the choice between a lifetime of apology and servitude and the superficial in terms of love and art or a true expression of our truths and the small but expanding arts that appeal to us with the knowledge that traditional social success will never come to us is our penultimate choice. Men that otherwise would of been radicals will always choose the second choice and I believe the corporate class know this. I believe at some point a PR team paired up with psychoanalysts and put this together and they pulled the more abstruse aspects of social theory to hammer it into pop-culture. Any real working resistance to capitalism will require young and able-bodied men, which of course are their targets.

>>12876719
Think about the sheer amount of sociologists, psyche majors, and liberal arts with varying amounts of overlap ended up in the corporate working world. It’s not a stretch to think that they’d be familiar with critical theory of post-structuralism but also sold the fuck out. Everything since Gen X has been this way, the slightest amount of money flashed at these people is all it would take for them to start and put that together. (It’s the basis of this thread that OP intuited)

Nothing far-left agrees with the far-right, it only looks like it does because we both agree the world is fucked. The difference is, leftists (as in marxists) suggest a fundamental, complete evolution of humanity while rightists think creating more destroyed people will create fix the world.

>>12875800

>>12876761
T. Brainlet

>>12876775
Truth. Fuck liberals. Lets take this contradiction to its conclusion: an all-out revolutionary war that brings humanity to its lowest depths but from it emerges a new society. Don't get me wrong, I hate violence, but the bourgeoisie are not the "ruling class" because they are kind people; they are the most violent and insane class this planet has ever known, and their force has too be matched. The final proletarian revolutionary war is going to be the most violent war fought.

>>12876719
>The Book Club
never heard of them a youtube channel?

No leftist philosophers are on the "capitalist" spectrum

>>12876790
Its likely the proletarian revolutionary war will destroy the planet itself and kill humanity. There is no doubt it will be a nuclear war.

>>12876790
There’s a little bit of that post-irony. Goddamn it feels good to be right wing brother.

>>12876794
A small channel that caters to /lit/


It makes me hard

>>12875782
When I read this, it felt like he was constantly trying not to be too harsh on the Marxists, who he seemed to at least sympathize with, even though most of what he was critiquing ended up being Leftist ideals.

>>12876708
>>12876711
Thank you. I know a Russian living over here and she’s from a very pro-Soviet family. Very sharpe girl.

>>12876719
Part of why I come here is to understand and be understood by those who are willing to listen.

Women are like men, a great hydra of personalities and ideals. Lead a local community to self sustainability... ah no, I mean sustainable from from the corporate state. A community that pulls together without the use of money. You’ll seem more romantic to the good women. No?

>>12876748
Since before even then, yeah.

>>12876761
It is rather a shortcoming of the shorthand left/right dichotomy. They both claim to want freedom, but to what degree and for who?

>>12876799
>Every social upheaval in France, however, is bound to be thwarted by the English bourgeoisie, by Great Britain’s industrial and commercial domination of the world. Every partial social reform in France or on the European continent as a whole, if designed to be lasting, is merely a pious wish. Only a world war can break old England, as only this can provide the Chartists, the party of the organized English workers, with the conditions for a successful rising against their powerful oppressors. Only when the Chartists head the English government will the social revolution pass from the sphere of utopia to that of reality. But any European war in which England is involved is a world war, waged in Canada and Italy, in the East Indies and Prussia, in Africa and on the Danube. A European war will be the first result of a successful workers’ revolution in France. England will head the counter-revolutionary armies, just as she did during the Napoleonic period, but the war itself will place her at the head of the revolutionary movement and she will repay the debt she owes to the revolution of the eighteenth century.
Replace "Britain" with "the USA". I am terrified of the slaughter and inhumanity that is to come, and I am working class.

>>12876114
stupidpol is exactly that

>The Right has inherited Postmodernism
Fucking how?

Political Right: Man can only be elevated by the state (hierarchy)
Political Left: Man is lowered by the state (anarchy)

>>12876804
>They both claim to want freedom, but to what degree and for who?
Well Lenin answered this question: there can be no true freedom until class is destroyed once and for all. Don't forget, communism isn't only the destruction of the bourgeoisie, but also the destruction of the proletariat itself. In a world of no exploitation, bourgeoisie cannot exist, since they themselves exist because of it. In communism there are only humans, full and complete.

>>12876114
/leftypol/ is unironically this, maybe too much so sometimes.

>>12876804
I don’t mean to make women into their own monolith but I’m also being a realist in terms of my own happiness and chances. I’m sure you’ll find this objectionable but the majority of philosophy and literature (which extends to serious activism) is male dominated. I really don’t want to get into the specifics with you but speaking in broad terms there aren’t many women out there that can even broach a conversation like the one we’re having.

>ah no...
Are you saying that none of these radical communities need men? Or that they could be executed in a way that’s devoid of men? If you’re really saying that it makes me think that you’re a femme ideologue. I can only imagine Marx believed this. I want freedom from the corporate state too and the fact that I say we would need men to do this (both obvious and historically accurate) makes me think you aren’t a serious intellectual if that is indeed what you’re saying. This kind of infighting is exactly why leftism fails in this and the last century. Feminism is unironically subverting radicals and appropriating them to the state as ready made identity demographics that can be advertised to.

>>12876825
If Reactionary is wrestling with Progressives for a "return" to an older form, then I'd say we're far enough past Post-Modernism that it is now the older way, while whatever the fuck we live in now is "Progressive"

>>12876825
Of we define post-modernism as an ironic detachment what better example do this do we have then the Clown World meme? They’ve inherited it in almost every way man. Leftists will deny this forever because it gives an air of intellectuality to them but it is what it is.

>>12876834
He was such a schizo. The system turns out bad people, so he keeps the system.
No one on tankypol ever took the time to explain the mans thinking even a little. “Here, read this”. I can only assume he had no real answer except to be a centralized capitalist state

>>12876852
First paragraph: Well I did suggest *doing* something. I think many would respond to that better.
Second paragraph: what? No. I said nothing of the sort.

>>12876852
>Are you saying that none of these radical communities need men? Or that they could be executed in a way that’s devoid of men? If you’re really saying that it makes me think that you’re a femme ideologue.
I don't think that anon said that. I think he was saying that both woman and men would be romantically inclined?
>I can only imagine Marx believed this.
No, Marx did not want a community of woman. Its actually one of the things he clearly stated he was not for.

>>12876884
Ok well I misread you then. What would you suggest I do exactly butterfly?

>>12876852
>Feminism is unironically subverting radicals
Not surprising. Feminism is an outgrowth of liberal thought; a product of capitalism that servess only increase available human capital.

>>12876889
Yes that’s what I meant friend, That he wouldn’t want a community of women.

>>12876899
When will the nightmare end

>>12876906

>>12876897
I workin that out for myself these past couple of months. To be a prepper of sorts, but for a whole community to do so.

“Feminism” has been co-opted by liberals. Don’t alienate socialists feminism anymore than confuse them

>>12876884
He wasn't a schizo, and your use of a mental illness as a pejorative just shows your first wordlist mindset.

The soviet union wasn't capitalist. In any way. Capitalist economic analysis cannot explain how the soviet union operated. The soviet union was, for a brief moment, a truly different society walking upon Earth.

Your utopian dreams of freedom will never lead to anything. You are right that we should aspire to freedom, but will capitalism and the profit motive exists, they will only extinguish and destroy life for their own gain. In the future, despite all the wars, genocide, racism and sexism, human kindness will outshine all of it. But it will take work, blood and sacrifice. We will win our way to freedom, and eventually, no human will be able to oppress anyone else. Its just the violent, revolutionary process that will take us there that is dangerous.

>>12876911
Prepper as in getting ready for civil war or more as in social collapse? Social collapse is what will happen if it does happen. And that’s why we need guns, and land outside of cities.

>>12876920
*ding ding ding*

RETARD ALERT GUYS

>>12876919
Feminism was liberal from the get-go, by design. A means of bolstering Capital. Unless you're speaking of archaic "feminism" i.e. that mode of thought that deems the feminine beautiful, good and necessary

>>12876920
Okay okay. I just have high standards for the term socialism. Different they were, but .... hey, never mind.
You read/listen to Paul Cockshott, anon?

>>12876921
Like that, yes. Building community togetherness wherever we can, and branch out to surrounding areas, rural, suburban and city. And if a shared, or partially shared economy is unworkable, do develop a voucher system

>>12876939
And olde liberalism was commune minded. Actual feminism is built into socialism

>>12876944
If anything it is the liberal brand of feminism that is built into socialism; that brand of feminism that pressumes the the inferiority of the duties associated with the domestic realm, and attempts to """liberate"'" the traditional custodians of this realm (women) from it.

>>12876944
Isn’t one of the critiques of white nationalist ethnostates the fact that bartering is inferior to a money based economy? That was what we had during the majority of development in the world. And life sucked ass. I mean that’s seriously Luddite shit, and the truth is as bad as capitalism is we can’t fix the problems it has caused without furthering technology. I can only imagine you’re drawing from many classic texts and ideas about philosophy but technology and its surrounding issues change everything.

>>12876963
He’s right on the money except for the faggoty “”“semicolons”””. Feminism on the ground even in its primordial forms have always been retarded, it had its hand in the temperance movement which was crucial in the creation of prohibition (women wanting their husbands to pay attention to them and work more hours instead of drinking) and look how that worked out. Why is it the inclination of women to censor and shun things they find disagreeable? It never works.

>>12876979
Bad example. The temperance movement that led to prohibition had more to do with actual beatings than simply husbands not paying attention, which was viewed as standard.

>right thread
>immediately talks about white
>white role
>white feeling
>white potential
what is happening in a brown country?

>>12876989
This guy #believesallwomen

>>12876991
Nobody cares about brown people, especially brown people

>>12876767

If you cannot convince a butterfly, acquaint its head with the pavement.

>>12877000
Checked

>>12876944
I like Paul Cockshott's economics, but his views on trans people are garbage. For reason or another, Britain has incredibly reactionary views on trans people and it extends even to the most class conscious. I think it is because of latent colonialism.

>>12876979
It had to have happened. It was the result of the industrial revolution, and has its beginning in pre civil war New York.

>>12876970
No, we did not barter before there was money. We only bartered when all the ready cash was taken away by invading armies. Pre-bronze age we has a shared economy. But a voucher system, which needs computers, can work just fine. Book pictured

>>12877000
I care.

>>12876979
>Why is it the inclination of women to censor and shun things they find disagreeable?
low IQ and feeble, insectoid minds incapable of true autonomy

>>12876993
I really don't find it a ridiculous scenario that in a highly protestant country in the 1920s more than a few alcoholic beatings happened and sparked moral outrage. It was pretty standard at the time to just ban X for being morally indecent/causing moral indecency. Prejudice against Catholics and both the Irish and Italians didn't help the alcohol case.

>>12877048
Oh, well, in that we’ll put him in charge of trans continental relations

>>12877048
>I like Paul Cockshott's economics, but his views on trans people are garbage.
He's objectively right though from a materialist point of view.

>Thead devolves into sexual divisions
Toxic mindsets cripple solidarity

>>12877050
>I care
Be careful. In 50 years the left's greatest threat will be the pro-capital industrialised (formally) 3rd world

>>12877077
>Toxic mindsets cripple solidarity
>The inability to accept one's true sex and the desire to cut and snip at one's body to "match" how one "feels" isn't toxic

>>12877100
Hence why we should care.

>>12877105
Wasn’t talking about dysmorphia (sp)

>>12877048
His views on trans people are more conducive with socialism than the liberal queer garbage that's wiggled its way into the left.

>>12876804
>A community that pulls together without the use of money.
Fantasy

>>12875849
so true and based

>>12877063
Haha,,,,

>>12877071
No he isn't. Gender emerges from the material conditions and this is backed up by fact. Most none western cultures have different gender systems, and separate genders are known as far back as the Roman Empire in the west.

>>12877129
No they aren't. As good at economics he is, he is still a first worldist anglo and has all the baggage of that.

>>12877154
Free markets are a fantasy. Shared economies are historic facts. True we haven’t seen them practiced large scale, but I believe we can do it someday. But a transitory system will have to serve as training wheels.

>>12877154
What specifically did he say?

>>12877077
The damage is done on that front and irreversible. I don't believe women, enmasse, can function for the benefit of the group if afforded equal status. Increased female participation in public life is historically a symptom of a culture heading to ruin.

>>12877180
>No he isn't. Gender emerges from the material conditions and this is backed up by fact. Most none western cultures have different gender systems, and separate genders are known as far back as the Roman Empire in the west.
You cannot be a materialist and advocate for something as non-materialist as gender. Sex is real, "gender" is not.
>No they aren't. As good at economics he is, he is still a first worldist anglo and has all the baggage of that.
No. All of his arguments are from a materialist perspective.

Marx and Marcus Aurelius

>>12877191
So you jump away from socialism without any actual consideration for anyone else but your own fee fees.
Goodbye.

>>12877201
I'm not a socialist. I don't need to jump away from it.

>>12876114
>Actually, point to a leftist that rejects idpol at all
Amber Frost and her writer buddies (not the podcast ones)

>>12877184
The problem is resting control of money away from (((those))) who currently possess it. I'm not knowledgeable about these things, but crypto seems to hold out the hope of a hand job.

>>12877194
Gender is a result of material conditions. You cannot ignore the economic slavery women have been forced to do in service to their husbands and bearing children. Its dangerous, dirty work and women have essentially been forced to do since private property became a thing. The patriarchal family is oppressive to women.

>>12877225
Bullshit perspective. The family was a unit. The husband slaved for the family, as did the wife. Sweat of both their brows. Society benefitted from the fruitful multiplication. The incentive to family broken the West has to import people.

>>12877225
cringe

>>12877225
>women giving birth is service to their husbands
And their kids. And society. And most of all themselves. Because 95% of women die miserable if they don't have kids.

>>12877224
No better way to make this thing “(((they)))” control go away than to deny its power.
Crypto is more liberalism, more opportunities to corrupt. It is a rightwing fix that will not work anymore than a UBI

Speaking of spooks. Stop even talking about gender. Please.

>>12875806
kek

>>12877249
You can''t "make it go away" any more than you make violence go away. You try to control it to the extent you can.

>>12875782
It doesn't, but you'd be surprised how much you can find that you agree with in the philosophy of those you disagree with.

>>12877225
>Says gender is bullshit
>Proceeds to make an argument relating to sex as a way to defend gender
What

>>12877249
>rightwing
>speaking of spooks

>>12877256
It has no value.
Only actual goods and services have value. Of course you can make it go away.

>>12877259
This.

>>12877269
>does not understand the parameters of the discussion

>>12877225
>The patriarchal family is oppressive to women.
One thing life is guaranteed to be is oppressive. Women raised kids in family units for, roughly speaking, all of human history and prehistory. The fifty year experiment with alternatives seems to be going swimmingly, wouldn't you say?

>>12877281
How do you regulate the exchange of goods and services without money?

>>12877289
Child rearing is the same thing as patriarchy. Duh

>>12877301
DL a pdf of Towards a New Socialism and see one way

>>12877281
>>does not understand the parameters of the discussion
Rightwing seems a particularly useless abstraction in the parameters of this discussion .

>>12877289 #
Child rearing is NOT the same thing as patriarchy. Duh

>>12877301 #
DL a pdf of Towards a New Socialism and see one wa

>>12877289
>family units
The type of family unit did differ greatly throughout history if we're going to be honest. The strict nuclear family unit has only really existed for the last few hundred years. It was mostly the extended family or communal families before that, save for a few places.

>>12877306
>Child rearing is the same thing as patriarchy.
Every historical society is patriarchal. The overwhelming majority of primitive socities are patriarchal. Most primates have patriarchal group structures. You're free to draw your own inferences on the basis of the evidence.

>>12877310
Did it offend? I see crypto for what it is. Another attempt to patch up capitalism and make it work this time.
It won’t. It’s corruption itself. It’s killing us. It has o stop.

>>12877321
Bzzzz
But irrelevant regardless.

>>12877234
No they didn't. The patriarchal family was set up so that the male could leech off of the wife and children. In the communal family, everyone loves each other as humans.

>>12877246
No-one said in communism people won't give birth idiot.

>>12877289
No they didn't. For most of human history, children were raised communally.

>>12877246
In capitalism obviously because capitalism is a corrupting, destructive force that creates disgusting people only concerned with their own gain, even if it means destroying and violating the people closest to them.

>>12877266
Gender isn't bullshit. It comes from the material conditions.

>>12877312
>Towards a New Socialism
What's the big idea in the above ?

>>12877281
>Only actual goods and services have value. Of course you can make it go away.
materialists please fuck off

>>12877330
>the male could leech off of the wife and children
By working 12 hours a day six days a week down a fucking mines haft. Or before that labouring in a field. Living the good life while wifey put the leg work in...
Life was hard and life sucked for both genders.

>>12877323

Things which advocate for communism or anarchism make themselves ridiculous when they posture that capitalism is "trying to prop itself up and make itself finally work, this time." To take such a rhetorical stance, such things are obliged to ignore the body of left literature which laments that capitalism works "all too well".

>>12877333

Not that guy and materialism is true. Do you know that?

>>12877346
Can you prove that? At least make a good argument for materialism

>>12877329
>The evidence that pretty much exclusively contradicts my pipe dreams
>bzz
>irrelevant

>>12875782
All leftism promotes rightism and vice versa. It's called unity of opposites and the universe would not exist without it.

>>12877330
>For most of human history, children were raised communally.
Those communities were patriarchal and raising children was the primary focus of the wife.

Beyoncé and Buzzfeed literally ruined utopia.

>>12877331
How a socialist economy, using a voucher system, can now work now because of the computer age.

>>12877333
Were materialists having a discussion ITT

>>12877343
It work like a monster that devours people. It rots the power elites brains and is sucking the world dry. It works for destruction, not life, not freedom. Not for me.

>>12877362
I think about this all the time, the word “reactionary” is thrown around like it’s OxyContin at a frat party but it’s all reactionary. When used specifically about the New Right it’s just another of a cupboard of buzzwords to shame it.

>>12877368
What’s gonna stop a computerized monetary system from being corrupted? They always are.

>>12877368
>voucher system
Would that be like a bit of paper or a token or some kind of e-credit you get in exchange for providing something of value that you can then exchange for other things of value?

>>12877353
That was in no way evidence.
>lots of monkeys are this way
Yeah? Not all of them.

>>12877363
No, we’re talking human history, not recorded history and certainly not western or Christian history.

>>12877368
Talking this romantically about capitalism is absurd sign of retardation.

>>12877377
This is your brain on Howard Zinn.

>>12877377
Can you list some non patriarchal socities?

>>12877374
Simple direct condemnation of crypto. Thank you.
But vouchers don’t work like money. They work like personalized coupons. So no one would steal them, hoard them or be able to bribe anyone with them.

>>12877376
It can be on a card now, yeah

>>12877377
>That was in no way evidence
Every. Historical. Society. Was. A. Patriarchy.

>>12877369
>it’s all reactionary
And in other instances, none of it is. Everything has both an active and reactive form.

>>12877376
>Would that be like a bit of paper or a token or some kind of e-credit you get in exchange for providing something of value that you can then exchange for other things of value?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvRfhakbEVE
Same concept, technocrats just reused the idea

Why do women want kids so much and hate having kids so much?

>>12877340
That is something men inflicted on men. Men have horrible and terrible hardships, no doubt about it. But that wasn't women's doing. Women didn't inflict this on men, other men and women at the top of society who threw working class men and women into the meat grinder for their own gain inflicted it.

>>12877363
Sure some of them.

>>12877330
>The patriarchal family was set up so that the male could leech off of the wife and children
Fun fact: Women are responsible for 70-80% of total consumption on the planet. This figure has increased since women have entered the workforce en masse.

>>12877423
You're talking about two different groups of women. The former almost always end up supporting "the patriarchy" because pregnancy, childbirth, and child rearing are actually very scary things. The latter are women who always end up despising "the patriarchy" as a result of no longer having any connection to what makes them unique from men (i.e. the feminine) leading them to compare themselves directly to men and wanting to compete with men in all possible domains.

>>12877427
You're saying the evils of hierarchy aren't gendered?

>>12877423
My gf both wants and loves kids. To be fair though she's neither a feminist nor an atheist

>>12877349
Your physical existence and your interaction with the physical world will always precede your perception and conclusions of that physical world. You first input data based on observing material reality, then process it. You don't process with no input, then input.

>>12877433
I doubt that figure. I highly doubt that figure took into account the top 500 companies, largely headed by male CEOs who account for most o f the planet's consumption merely to turn a profit.

>>12877445
The evils of hierarchy are fundamentally tied to class.

>>12877464
>Muh hierarchy
Marxists don't deny hierarchy, read a book

>>12877464
The evils of hierarchy are tied to biology, chemistry, and fundamentally to physics
Class is a socio-historical expression of this fact.

>>12877410
Good old Arvid
The rest is just as good
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5bqPXqYWHlE&t=12s

>This retarded argument about children, gender roles, and rearing
Everyone gets in the vats and exits meatspace. Humanity does not make it out in the future.

>>12877485
Humanity is the only thing that makes it out. Everything below human perishes by its own weaknesses.

>>12877505
>he says as he eats his can of onions green.

About gender. Women evolved living around men and men would smack them if they stepped out of line. What kind of being is created under that environmental pressure? And what happens when that pressure is pretty much released?

>>12877464
>I doubt that figure
Hahaha. Really throws a spanner in your ideological machinary, doesn't it? Look it up though. They're pinning it at 77% at the moment.

>>12876369
>I would call Marxists, Marxist-Leninists and all tankies authoritarians no better than fascists.
>They’re all kinds of messed up no matter how well intentioned they are.

>>12877510
Sorry butterfly, but as much as I appreciate your presence on /lit/, you won't be making it out with the humans, being a lesbian and all.

>>12876479
You sound canadian

>>12877464
Matey here >>12877515 is correct. Men earn and women spend is broadly correct.

>>12877467
I never said they didn't.

>>12877470
No they aren't. Tat is just something the ruling class make up to prevent violence against them. In reality, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

>>12877515
Nah I highly doubt it.

>>12877544
>Tat is just something the ruling class make up to prevent violence against them
They've done a good job faking evidence of the evils of hierarchy throughout the animal kingdom. Fucking fascist propagandists.

>>12877544
>Tat is just something the ruling class make up to prevent violence against them
Oddly enough, the hippy boomers running things have been telling people the opposite for at least three decades.
No hierarchies between groups, nations, creeds, races, men and women. How come?

>>12876504
its almost like horses are better because they were domesticated and bred to be strong and obedient

>>12877544
>Nah I highly doubt it.
Look it up dude. Or are you too scared? The kicker is that it's INCREASED since women have started working lmao

>>12877048
>this guy hates trans people because of colonialism
think about this and ask yourself how it makes any sense at all

>>12876369
>I would call Marxists, Marxist-Leninists and all tankies authoritarians no better than fascists. They’re all kinds of messed up no matter how well intentioned they are.
Starting to understand why you were kicked off of /leftypol/ now

>>12877559
Not really. I mean even the bourgeoisie don't give that much of a fuck about hierarchy, considering they brutally murdered the aristocracy during the English Civil War and French Revolutions. I highly doubt bringing up the old lobster argument would have prevented the bourgeoisie from letting loose their rage on aristocrat children.

>>12877575
Hippy boomers were never communist. They are a first worldist socdems.

>>12877599
No, the top 500 companies are the top polluters and consumers. You have no facts to back anything you say up.

>>12877645
>Hippy boomers were never communist. They are a first worldist socdems
Doesnt address the point made

>>12877645
>I mean even the bourgeoisie don't give that much of a fuck about hierarchy, considering they brutally murdered the aristocracy during the English Civil War and French Revolutions
I'd imagine they highly give a fuck about hierarchy, not least on account of the points you raise here.
> I highly doubt bringing up the old lobster argument would have prevented the bourgeoisie from letting loose their rage on aristocrat children.
No it wouldn't have. That said - it wasn't only the bourgeois raging against the ancien regime. And the fact that it wouldn't does nothing to invalidate "the old lobster argument"- quite the opposite probbaly

>>12877510
ONIONS
Onions green

>>12877536
I don't get it.

>>12877580
Africa didn't have anything to cross a zebra with. They could not be domesticated.

>>12877630
^____^
I gave 'em a chance

>>12877716
Aw. She keeps trooping on in her own question dodging, blinkered way. It's kinda entertaining

>>12877731
I am tired.
What have I dodged?

>>12877718
Holy cow. I thought it was the spell check!
HAHAH
soilent green?
s o y lent green

>>12877645
Do you know how production and consumption curves work? Secondary consumers are always less efficient than primary ones. Just look it up; women account for 70+% percent of all consumption

>>12877741
#Metoo. Maybe it wasn't you. Examples of non patriarchal societies?

I'm off to Maccy D's for breakfast. Will gob on a homeless on the way.
When the revolution comes there's no reason why we can't gas the kikes/benders/shitskins/other degens AND the capitalist bastards too. Our factions can argue it out after, and the losers get gassed. Then after the Reich of True Communism hits its millennium our descendants can get gassed in turn by whatever lot of untermenschen hellspawn grubs its way out of the sump of the new system. Let's stay hopeful and not argue so much.

>>12877753
I think we were referring to monkeys. Bonobos are conveniently ignored. It's not really a "natural" state so much as a social pattern. The feminist movement happened the same way the socialist and nationalist ones did. The Industrial Revolution. Same with advent of the agricultural age, the bronze age. Things like this change our society.
So called third world or developing world countries have fiercer patriarchal customs. In a post industrial age leisure and prosperity bring more equality

>>12876235
who the fuck is they

>>12875782
Far right classics that actually promote leftist ideas

>>12877751
This is actually completely unsuprising. Woman are generally the ones who shop for the family and so are the ones who go out more often to buy. Stores and businesses as early as Macy's noticed this trend and actually incorporated it into their model (look it up), with windows laced with products intended to lure wife's who were out shopping. Some shops would carry both food items and consumer products, so as to convince grocery shoppers to stop by their store instead to do their shopping and maybe pick up a consumer product along the way. This developed over time with stores tailoring their stock towards woman in general. As men obtained more time to shop as well, stores moved more towards the idea of the product completing you. However, given that woman still had the longer history, this was tailored more towards both them and children (who also had more time). This isn't anything new, and you can read about it in the history of a lot of department stores.

>>12877792
>I think we were referring to monkeys. Bonobos are conveniently ignored.
The monkeys were a side point.
You're saying never mind that there are zero examples of successful non patriarchal societies, because post industrial society and the prosperity it brings can enable a gender equality that hasn't been possible prior? That might be the case, but it might not be.
Is that prosperity sustainable? What brought it about? What made it possible?
Does the push for gender equality break down societal cohesion?
Is it possible that empowering women unleashes forces that break socities to pieces?
Or that women becoming empowered is a sign of a society in decline?

How is Society of the spectacle conservative at all? Conservatives are capitalists ?

oh yea i forgot people here are retarded

>>12875829
What manner of retard thought foucault as 'progressive' in the first place? The Iranian revolution was his favorite contemporary event. Is it really just a case of steamy gay sex = leftism?

>>12877809
That figure (70+%) has increased despite increasing female participation rates in the workforce and decreasing birth rates. Capital in all its sentience has figured out that women love consuming even more when they're liberated i.e. chlidless wagelsalves

>>12877865
Yeah, Foucault was a sick puppy nihilist

>>12877863
OP said far right, not conservative you dumb idiot.

>>12876504
Horses took a thousand years to bring to a really domesticated state, and the men of the day had nothing else to do than taming and breeding them.
Have you ever seen a wild cat?

>>12877799
The serfs "liberated" from their lands. Later called reactionaries. Perfectly valid gripes against all that happened to them. But they always wanted a return to the feudalism, a restoration of the king and primacy of the church. They always pine for the glories of the past.

>>12877805
>far leftist
No.

>>12877849
>Does the push for gender equality break down societal cohesion?
It doesn't. No and no.

>>12877809

Not that guy but I have a few observations on this head. During my training with the great satan Wal-Mart, the computer training specifically instructed me at least once to (my paraphrase): "look after all customers, but ESPECIALLY help female customers." (because that's where the money is). In my current related retail grocery gig, it is of course again the middle-aged women who drive the business. The men aren't the ones doing the big carts.

Third, Harvard Design School's "Guide to Shopping" (V.2, the best one) contains an essay called "Ms. Consumer" as I recall, about how the "savvy" female consumer was molded through marketing. I've been thinking about re-reading that one, been a long time since I read that book. Very good book overall, though dated, it looks at mallspace and attempts to forecast the current e-commerce situation as well as it can, for its time.

>>12877868
Looked it up, stat wise woman are still the ones shopping for the family regardless if both spouses work. The consumption figure is a bit weird, because it counts the decision of which home to buy in the rate and calculates that into the percent. So my point about corporate tailoring still applies.

>>12877904
Of course it applies. A good business will capitalize on the mother's role as primary shopper. It doesn't explain however the trend of increasing consumption despite fewer women being mothers. Businesses have found something else to capitalize on. Another hole to fill.

>>12877718
>Africa didn't have anything to cross a zebra with. They could not be domesticated.
It seems like you don't understand selective breeding. As to be expected from a tripfag.

>>12877892
>It doesn't. No and no.
That's a pretty glib answer for a question that can't be anything but doubtful given current evidence.
Gender equality has brought:
>Falling birth rates to the point replacement migration is needed
>to pay for the welfare state voted for because of the expanded franchise
>increased single parenthood, which produces disproportionate numbers of dysfunctional individuals
These might be reasons for thinking that it does. I'm not saying that's definitely the case. And if it is there's fuck all can be done to change the trajectory now until a
crash comes. But it looks plausible.
And the forces that created the above might explain why there are no examples of non patriarchal socities persisting in history. A kind of wanton unthinking selfishness/altruism in feminity.
This feels dumb, but it's the best I can do now

>>12877892
the fuck do you mean >far leftist explain this shit you menopausal neomarxist bitch

>>12876169
>Up-their-ass criminals: "hmm STIRNER SAID SO AND ALSO Capitalism and SHEET"
>Actual criminals: "yeah I sold your 12 yo drugs, what the fuck are you gonna do about it?"

Merely justified egoism

>>12877925
>It doesn't explain however the trend of increasing consumption despite fewer women being mothers.
I think you misunderstand the stat, woman are still the ones shopping for both spouses in the data. And it's not no children, it's less children. As in one or two children. Not trying to hammer anything here, but that's an important bit. So the uptick might be caused by woman buying some more things for themselves as they work, but they are generally still taking care of spousal shopping even in no children relationships.

validity of communism aside, how you finna boutta do a revolution in the US when this is the material you have to work with
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/b8xqzf/the_left_calls_everyone_a_nazi/?sort=controversial

>>12877990
>US
Russia will probably go back to communism again before the US ever goes communist. I'm not even joking here, look at the polls.

>>12877990
The tone of reddit makes my blood curdle. Whatever the sub. There's a smell about the place. Sweet, sickly, rotting.

There's literally no point in even attempting to argue against anyone not what's considered a leftist. I won't say they're too stupid, but they really are too stubborn to accept anything at all and will mostly repeat propaganda and misinformation they have been told. They do not read the texts (whilst projecting about that) and will not change their minds because they've been living with the propaganda against it since they were born, almost. They'll also insult you for what you believe and tell you to "grow up."

It's futile.

t. Anarchist

>>12875804
consumer fetishism is fucked and he called it

>>12878049
There are people from all areas of politics worth arguing with. If you think there aren't you're the problem.

>>12878074

There really isn't. They won't change their minds. No one's mind will be changed. It's a somewhat intellectual stalemate. Once again, one side argues with propaganda and misinformation. It's useless. They'll spout useless bullshit that is proven wrong.

For fuck's sake, people reference The Gulag Archipelago as something factual.

>>12878082
A) arguing isn't primarily about changing other people's minds, rather sharpening your own ideas
B) if you do change people's mind, that's unlikely to be instaneous, and even if it is they're very unlikely to stand up and say "You were right anon," that's not how most people work
C) if you think one side is spouting nothing but propaganda, you're the brainwashed one
D) what's wrong with Solz? I haven't read him beyond 100 pages of first circle and A day in the life

>>12877875
How is it far right ? Even worse idiot

>>12877865
gay sex is actually the most reactionary and redpilled thing you can do

I love seeing completely clueless lefties go "WHHAAAT HOW IN THE LEDDIT EARTH DO RIGHT WINGERS CARRY POSTMOSTERNISM??!!".

C L U E L E S S

>>12878197
Not in Iran m8

>>12878229
postmodernism
situationism
marxism
counterculture
rebellion against the corporate culture of consumerism and conformity
gay sex

all these are the rights turf now fuck of leftist...

>tfw actually waiting for China to come and eat up us Yuropoors
I have no fucking hope left, only tears now.

>>12877048
REEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCK OFF DISCORD TRANNY

>>12877879

Genuinely shut the fuck up. Horses were not domesticated because the men had nothing better to do. Fucking retard please never touch your keyboard again.

>situationism
It works to some degree.
Can't explain why full testosterone males are highly sensitive to right wing ideologies.

Hormonal/Genetic traits are dominant in certain things and weak in others.
When it's a draw between biology and cultural incentives, the situation is more important there.

>>12878237
>postmodernism
the newest waves of righties are very pomo
>situationism
nah, everyone has ditched this desu, or at least for much more sophisticated versions of this
>marxism
nazbol gang
>counterculture
obvi
>rebellion against the corporate culture of consumerism and conformity
obvi
>gay sex
it never left the right

>>12878049
What texts from the other side have you read?

>>12875791
based

>>12876047
>black people care about any that group but their own

>>12876047
>Black socialists of today see brothers and sisters in this new Redneck Rebellion group.

LMFAO

>>12878049
t. Stubborn faggot full of propaganda that wont change his mind

>>12876070
>o9a
Redlettermedia me on that senpai

>>12877940
A glib answer from a very tired girl.
>Falling birth rates
Implying that's a bad thing
>Welfare state
Did you know I want the end of statism?
>Single parenthood
A direct result of the fragmentation of the real family unit. But some people get it back together, as in when a single mother takes her kids to live with her parents.
>until a crash comes
That's not going to bring back the fuck-awful nuclear family model
>non-patriarchal
Funny phrasing. You imply a non-matriarchal with it too. You need to look at some anthropological studies

>>12877941
So how is de Maistre promoting anything leftist?

>>12878049
I drifted from right to left over the course of my life, so I still hold out hope it will dawn on them with time and maturity. Some of them.

Thread will no doubt die before I return. So b'bye.

Right wing
Left wing
Chicken wing

Righties and lefties have such a cringey high opinion of themselves. Congrats on falling for identity politics you dipshits.

>>12876491
Liberals larping as leftists, just like 99% of all the so-called leftists.

>>12875782
>''Leftist Classics'' that Actually Promote Far Right Ideas
What the fuck?

>>12875849
There's nothing really far-right about this fact though, this is basically what left-wing had always been before dumb neolibs stole our name

>>12879126
based

>Dude Marxists are actually for private ownership of capital

"no"

>>12879370
>dude marxists still exist and aren't all just larping liberals

>>12876225
Explain why you think this is far right?

>>12879433
The whole paper unintentionally makes a giant argument that aestheticization of politics>politicization of art. A society within which art is politicized is one within which the aura is dead. The only hope of regaining the aura is through the aestheticization of politics.

>>12878541
Woah calm dowm my nigga. Everything will be okay.

>>12879030
he is against individualism... i dont think u neo marxist losers understand that the right wingers uve been so vehemently engaging are the diaspora of the french revolution n that it was this which brought with it the notion of a "right wing" in the first place... de maistre had many ideas which would now be considered leftist. Look at his ideas on language as well as those of jg hamann.

>>12879126
This. The fight is, once again, not between collectives, but between individuals who create collectives in order to fight other individuals.

>>12876214
That's not right wing, that comes from Marx and Adorno. The critique of capitalism is universal, the way those critiques are responded to are what makes something left or right wing

>>12880003
Individualism vs collectivism isn’t anymore a right/left thing than determinism vs free will.
>Calls me a neo Marxist loser
I’m an anarchist.
>de maistre had many ideas which would now be considered leftist
Duh. That my point. He’s monarchist and rightwing

>>12875782

>>12875790
This. It's so bizzare hearing far leftist English professors hold classics in such high regard, when the values espoused in most of those works are antithetical to their political beliefs. The amount of mental gymnastic they must perform to assure themselves there's no contradiction is astounding - stuff like deconstructing the text and convincing themselves that the correct interpretation is some Marxist dialectical materialist metaphor and that the author was actually a precursor to the current left wing school of thought. It's cringe inducing just thinking of some podgy Marxist English professor reading an esteemed classic and trying to jam it in to their current ideology somehow.

>>12878906
butt cutting meme satanists, famous for their member (named RAPE) """infiltrating""" atomwaffen and turning thousands retards even dumber

>>12876839
/leftypol/ is about 1/1000 as relevant as 4/pol/

>>12881555
All relavant leftism is pretty much only on twitter and reddit

Sad!

>>12876761
This post may have singlehandedly ruined my whole year.

>>12881422
nothing you say makes any sense you whore you literally just said your point is that hes rightwing while agreeing with my statement that many of his ideas are considered leftist in modern times. and im not conflating individualism with right wing but u cant deny the connotations idiot. capitalist individualism is right wing by todays standards and de maistre proposes a monolithic, collectivist society and just because it involves an authority figurehead doesnt make it de facto right wing im right and ur wrong

>>12882597
I misread “now” as “not”. Sorry.

His collectivism comes from his monarchism. Even the authority figure of Stalin is called leftwing
I was raised in the Christian collectivism, made my way to Stirner’s egoism, and even though I will always distrust Marxist-Leninism, I acknowledge we need a collectivist movement.

What are his ideas on language?

leftism isn't even real

>>12876047
>Black socialists of today see brothers and sisters in this new Redneck Rebellion group.
lmao

>>12882691
Ah.

You didn’t really do it did you? I suppose if you did that’s fine, but you only posted it right after I started complaining. I can’t believe you don’t think I’m being serious.

You’re just trying to make me look like trash. I’ve never done that to you. But fine, so you did something DIRECTLY AFTER I had told you not to?

I think you’re trolling me

Vampires made you think leftism was about identity politics. Exit the castle

>>12883017
I'll never forgive idpol fags for killing him. He deserved better.

>>12879030
>I drifted from the right to the left
This explains so much. I assume you probably came from a religious home. Daddy issues 101.

>>12876920

actual schizophrenic here: shut the fuck up no one cares if you say "schizo"

>>12883059
Blame the vampires instead

>>12883175
The vampires are the idpolers

>>12876573
>they’re the most desperate to pierce through the spectacle
lmao
they're an essential component of the digital spectacle.

>>12883083
Homosexuals that stay rightwing and/or religious have no self respect and are cracked in the head.

I don't think I have any serious "daddy issues", but if I did, I don't now.

What did Joyce mean by this?

>>12883276
Homosexuality is a meme, it's just an over-glorified fetish cult

>>12883395
Easily thought of as a fetish for bisexuals I'd imagine.

What are you though? You straight? Why aren't you a "meme"? You know why I believe in straight people?

>>12877194
>You cannot be a materialist and advocate for something as non-materialist as gender
you cannot be a materialist and advocate for something as non-materialist as credit-money.

>>12883435
I'm not straight, because straightness can only exist in opposition to homosexuality which does not exist. There are merely varying degrees of degeneracy and perversion from traditional sex.

>>12875866
Ignoring that the left-right division is reductionist and harmful to political thinking, Lasch is really an 1890s "left-wing populist", ala the People's Party. His closest precursor is probably someone like William Morris. He doesn't really hold any of the traditional conservative positions on family, marriage, etc.

Here's a good read about him.

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/dialectic-love-authority

>>12883442
>as non-materialist as credit-money.
Labour vouchers/energy certificates are not money

>>12883525
the point is that credit money exists at present, as gender does. the advocacy in question is the advocacy of existence, i.e. to argue that it does exist, not the advocacy of promotion, i.e. that it would exist under communism.

>>12883442
"""""traditional"""""

>>12883587
>>12883494

my bad lol. ahhhh, semantics.
>muh tradition

>>12883541
>as gender does
Money has a material economic basis. "Gender" does not.

>>12883606
>Money has a material economic basis
what is the material economic basis of digital credit money
it is an item of mass consensus delusion

>>12883610
It is still something integral to the existence of the current economic system (capitalism) and is both necessary to and involved in the MCM' cycle. It being digital does not stop that.

>>12883628
it does stop it being material, even if it has a place in materialist analysis.
like gender.

it's real because we make it real, but you can't touch it.

>>12883632
>it's real because we make it real, but you can't touch it.

>>12882863
wat

>>12881536
>read introduction to some classic
>it's some dude telling me how the book was about liberalism all along
always makes me kek how clueless people living in the postideological years were

>>12883276
it's not an identity, is just an act

>>12883507
saying that lefty-right division is reductionism is a left wing point of view

>>12876047
I'm black. Kill whites NGL desu.

Just LOL at caring about settlers. Literally all whites need to be purged.

Every white is a reactionary.

>>12877615
>>12877048
I know lmao, that part makes no fucking sense.

Trannies are simply reactionary.

>>12884010
Trying a bit too hard there

>>12875804
This is extremely funny to me because of how true it is. God I wonder how Adorno would feel about that. I can just imagine those glazed dead eyes of his.

>>12875804
based, the leader of the alt right unironically wrote his master's thesis about adorno

>>12884268
>the leader of the alt right
>dicky
wew

>>12884413
i mean that's the best they could get

>>12876622
Good post.

>>12883915
Life is an act you cast yourself to play.
I have always preferred women despite having a woman's body. I didn't once ever seriously wish to be a boy.

>>12884776
>you cast yourself

>>12876622
nice