/lit/ - Literature

post nudes and I'll write nice things to help you feel validated.

Schopenhauer roasts Hegel AND women

This thread is stupid.
>>/his/

make me a sandwich,
then read Harry Potter

>>12380630
>he abused me by citing hegel at every political discussion!

You don't need philosophy, you need to block your bf and find someone better immediately.

>>12380654
To be fair, anyone who tries to fuck with their SO using any kind of philosophy is probably not a mentally stable person, i.e. they're an overt narcissist who demands total control over their partner in some fashion, which includes their political/religious/philosophical views.

t. Grill who has dealt with several "Pygmalions" throughout my lifetime

>>12380678
>grill
care to larp as this degenerate incel's girlfriend for a few hours?

>>12380685
What makes you think I'm LARPing?

>>12380658
OP here. This seems a bit harsh.

>>12380749
Do it. He's never going to get better. Guys with control issues run their SOs into the ground just because it makes them feel intellectually superior. It doesn't matter what his ideology is, because if your ex was a Spinozaist or Heideggerian he'd be doing the same damn thing just under a different pretext.

"Conversion" doesn't always take the form of direct missionizing. Many times it can be something as benign as him insulting your views indirectly in order to make you question them and your sanity, i.e. gaslighting.

DESU you should really be posting your story to /adv/ rather than /lit/ but I digress.

>>12380630
lol u probably dont know anything about hegel you fucking foid pseud. stupid hole, you cant read anything more difficult than the tina fey biography. tell me: what role does the distinction between kants transcendental logic and transcendental dialectic, the latters production of antinomies, and his and hegels different conceptions of knowledge play in the centrality of contradiction to hegels dialectic?

>>12380630
lol u probably dont know anything about hegel you fucking foid pseud. stupid hole, you cant read anything more difficult than wine bottle labels. tell me: what role does the distinction between kants transcendental logic and transcendental dialectic, the latters production of antinomies, and his and hegels different conceptions of knowledge play in the centrality of contradiction to hegels dialectic?

ITT: angry males who pounce on any female due to their lack of gf.

>>12380830
Hegel is notoriously difficult to understand fully, which is often times why Hegel scholars will come off as "gurus".

It's really no different than postmodernists in that regard.

Read: Schelling, Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Schmitt, Heidegger, Bataille, Althusser, Deleuze, any post-Deleuzian.

Also, look into critiques of historicism. Hegel's political philosophy is godawful.

>>12380703
no I mean I want you to larp as my gifriend please. I'll start:

***
>>12380678
yeah that guy was a real asshole, lucky you met me hey?

>>12380911
Piss off dude.

>>12380839
>Hegel is notoriously difficult to understand fully, which is often times why Hegel scholars will come off as "gurus".
DING DING DING. And that's what puts you in a pressure cooker too since you can't really tell if the 'guru' is being truthful or not, or if he/she has a hidden agenda, or if he/she is just trying to fuck with you (as was the case with me).

>>12380630
Kiekergaard

>>12380775
even if this is a larp thread, this
and for guys who think they are molding their women through advice and nudging her in the right direction, you're probably just being a shithead and making her hate everything you care for.

>>12380630

>>12380953
Modern academia (humanities) is pretty much a gigantic clout circus. How many cult followers does Zizek have, despite being a very poor philosopher whose entire "thing" is his gimmicky style of execution?

Just because a particular academic/scholar may be very fluent in Hegel or Heidegger (and harshly critical of anything which goes against their "god") doesn't mean they have all the answers nor are beyond criticism. The problem is, no one is really taught *how* to make a good criticism, because the authors whom the scholars use are never properly taught/deciphered. It's like being manipulated by a scam artist who barely speaks your language; when you try to fight them off it doesn't work because your words initially mean nothing to them.

The main problem I see is this: students who assume their guru has all the answers will refuse to challenge them on the basis that: "If XYZ is true, WHY hasn't my guru - who is sooooo much smarter than me - discovered that position on their own? It MUST be false then." Which of course assumes the gurus are infallible, which is dangerous.

>>12381064
Absolutely. Pygmalions are always insecure control freaks who are afraid of losing what they have, so they resort to extremely authoritarian mechanisms of control in order to keep their "Galateas" attached to them. This includes breaking down their victims' previously-held belief systems and insuring that they are the ones with the "correct" answers.

>>12380630
What sort of self respecting woman allows philosophy to change their mind?

>>12381085
Speaking of Ruskies, what exactly did Solovyov think of Hegel? I assumed he was Hegelian for a long time until he attacked Hegel for being too rationalist.

>>12381106
Someone who is intelligent and thus easily swayed by intellectual shit.

It's the same reason why most propaganda is aimed at smarter/more educated people.

A THREAD FUCKING DIED FOR THIS

>>12381169
Okay.

>>12380630
>>12380658
>find someone better immediately
Not possible, go read some Joyce Carol Oats and try to avoid people in general

>>12380887
>Also, look into critiques of historicism.
This is all you need.

>>12380630

Does it smell?

>women needing men to teach them philosophy

I'm embarrassed.

>>12380630
Fucking owned.

Hegel does it again

>>12380630
This post is probably fake, but consider what someone spraying some words at you and crunbling your entire worldview actually says about your worldview.

>>12381327
Women do not have worldviews.

>>12380630
Nietzsche's untimely meditations has a chapter where he BTFO's von hartmann and hegel. Look there.

my gf and I both studied philosophy, but it would never occur to me to seriously discuss "political and religious principles" when I'm with her

there's so many fun things you can do together with another person you share an intimate relationship with and people choose to talk about fucking Hegel?

Wow, as if women here couldn't sound any more vapid, they take philosophy argument as a direct attack on their person. Have you considered that if you tried to understand what the guy was telling you, it might have been useful? If you can't refute it, why did you have reason to resist it? Other than pure volition.

Volition which was born from your lack of respect and love for the guy, which you now rationalise and narrate as coerced abuse.

My girlfriend doesn't care for literature and philosophy that much but she can be honest and tell me when she thinks I'm talking bullshit. I would never push something she doesn't like but at the same time she hears out my points because she respects and loves me. Guys avoid art hoes. They are walking inferiority complexes.

>>12381388
Hegelian philosophy is making a comeback via Zizek and other critics of leftist idpol.

>>12380831
ITT: dudes with dicks bigger than mine larping as gurls.

>>12381412
To be fair, if her bf was dating a manipulative Deleuzian woman, the said woman would probably do the same to him, and break him down in the process.

"Don't define yourself by philosophy" is only said by people who have little conviction in the first place.

>>12381158
no it isn’t you retard

>>12381412
More like, insecure guys like OP's ex specifically go after naive girls in order to control them. They don't want girlfriends, they want fans/followers.

Same reason why a lot of asshole humanities professors fuck their students.

>>12381453
i gots the cure lemme fuck u wit mah philosoph dick. you be cured in no time hahahaha

>>12380630
Just realize there is no logic to history or this world.

>>12380678
Sounds more like an uxorious idealistic fool squandering his time on a quixotic quest to morally educate a fallen woman.

But we can't expect a bitter shrew to abide by the principle of charity, can we?

>>12380630
The good thing about Hegel is history moves on no matter what your opinion about anything is

>>12381720
The good thing about smug assholes is they remain unchanging in their smugness no matter what your opinion about anything is.

Bataille had some interesting thoughts on him

"express ‘the central and final idea of Hegelian philosophy’, which is ‘the
idea that the foundation and the source of human objective reality
[Wirklichkeit] and empirical existence [Dasein] are the Nothingness which
manifests itself as negative or creative Action, free and self-conscious’.

To permit access to Hegel’s disconcerting world, I have felt obliged
to mark, by a careful examination, both its violent contrasts and its
ultimate unity.

For Kojeve, ‘the “dialectical” or anthropological philosophy of Hegel is
in the final analysis a philosophy of death (or, which is the same thing, of
atheism)’ (K, 537; TEL, 539).

But if man is ‘death living a human life’ (K, 548; TEL, 550), man’s
negativity, given in death by virtue of the fact that man’s death is essentially
voluntary (resulting from risks assumed without necessity, without bio-
logical reasons), is nevertheless the principle of action. Indeed, for Hegel,
action is negativity, and negativity action. On the one hand, the man who
negates nature - by introducing into it, like a flip-side, the anomaly of a
‘pure, personal ego’ - is present within that nature’s heart like a night within
light, like an intimacy within the exteriority of those things which are in
themselves - like a phantasmagoria in which nothing takes shape but to
evanesce, nothing appears but to disappear, where nothing exists except
absorbed without respite in the annihilation of time, from which it draws the
beauty of a dream. But there is a complementary aspect: this negation of
Nature is not merely given in consciousness - where that which exists in
itself appears (but only to disappear) - this negation is exteriorized, and in
being exteriorized, really (in itself) changes the reality of nature. Man works
and fights; he transforms the given; he transforms nature and in destroying
it he creates a world, a world which was not. On the one hand there is
poetry, the destruction that has surged up and diluted itself, a blood-
spattered head; on the other hand there is action, work, struggle. On the one
hand, ‘pure Nothingness’, where man ‘differs from Nothingness only for a
certain time' (K, 573; TEL, 575). On the other, a historical world, where
man’s negativity, that nothingness that gnaws him from within, creates the
whole of concrete reality (at once object and subject, real world changed or
unchanged, man who thinks and changes the world).

Hegel's philosophy is a philosophy of death - or of atheism"

>>12381733
Just use Hegel to combat Hegel. Claim your views also contain inherent truths because it doesn't go against his philosophy

>>12380630
to add to what others have said, most abusive guys see themelves as lion trainers who have to train an otherwise headstrong woman. it seems like your bf in particular was laying this shit on you.

a lot of times abusive guys will turn their gfs into maids where they do all the dirty work for the guy, and if the girl refuses the guy lays on the 'you're so selfish' bullshit. sounds like your man was doing the same thing only he probably said something more akin to 'you're so stupid/illogical.'

glad you got the fuck out of there in time before he drove you to suicide.

>>12380630
Well done, but a bit heavy handed 7/10

>>12381747
This assumes the bf in question is open-minded enough.

>>12381826
If he isn't on some level then he isn't Hegelian. Simple as. There is a claim in the preface alone about rejecting views outright being a misleading thing.

>>12380775
>people are not allowed to discuss their opinions with their intimates
What?

>>12381835
Because it's not just about philosophy, it's also about male insecurity and demand to possess a woman ideologically.

>>12381158
dumbest post in this dumb ass thread

>>12380749
Do it. You're better off with me

A lot of 20th century philosophy does a good job of critiquing Hegel. Start there, OP.

>>12381105
Why you made Zizek a target I have no idea, but if you've ever watched him debate rarely is he ever "critical" of differing perspectives. If anything he finds it much more better to delineate the points of disagreement between him and his opponent, rather than attacking or criticising them. You might think he's gimmicky but ultimately his method is fairly rigorous, even throughout all the varieties of presentation (film analogies, crude jokes, etc.) he's really just making the same argument in different modes, but always by duel-wielding Hegel and Lacan. You might not approve of his success, but you certainly can't attack him for being inconsistent.

>>12381835
Preface to what?

>>12381747
>>12381835
>muh hegel is NEVER WRONG!!!!

>>12382087
He finished philosophy and mapped out the reality of thoughts.

>>12381940
Just as Hegel foretold

>>12382029
Phenomenology of Spirit

>>12381453
good post
dare i say only good post in this thread

>>12380775
>DESU you should really be posting your story to /adv/ rather than /lit/ but I digress.
I doubt /adv/ would understand OP's issues. They tend to be overly dismissive of issues whenever OP is female.

>>12382107
Then that's what you should have said, not just a blanket "the preface."

>>12382101
>Just as Hegel foretold
Anyone who was groundbreaking in their day expects heavy criticism in the future. It's pretty much guaranteed, but in no way means you are correct.

Same reason why cult leaders know they have to be on the defensive.

He is literally second-rate Martin Luther, the fact this is not realized by '''academics''' is a joke.

>>12381651
No, the intentions of these kinds of dudes is truly malicious. Mind fucking anyone is a form of abusive, pretty common among sociopaths. But hey, some dudes just need to be right all the time in order to feel any kind of validation whatsoever.

>>12380630
Are my ex gf, what the fuck are you doing here I thought you hated 4chan

>>12382393
You say malicious, I say misguided.

Imagine being a man who thinks the content of a woman's mind is of any import.

>>12382634
Narcissists and sociopaths are pretty fucked up. They only care about being "nice" insofar as it keeps their target attached to them. They wouldn't care about a "misguided" person unless they could use said person's ignorance to draw them in and keep them around.

>>12381933
I wish I were a boyish shota, desupai :( Youth continues to leave me, and my fantasies of being a submissive and boyish lad to a dominant and motherly woman only become less and less likely as time makes its progression.

>>12382797
You're still trying to lecture a narcissistic sociopath on what it means to be a narcissistic sociopath? Lol.

>>12381158
yes, be a slave to whatever external institution presently holds the keys to the kingdom of intellectual-land

>>12380630
I'm sorry he did this to you, and please don't spend too much time on a place like 4chan if non-misogyny is what you're seeking out. Find other communities that are not hostile towards women like the ones here are, which you can see clearly in your thread, you'll get better answers there.

>>12382634
Imagine actually writing things like this.

>Normal person
itt: Post critics of Hegel
Critics of Hegel thread
I want to read critics of Hegel, recommendations?

>Female
I'm a grill
Couple issues
I am a wreck, need my sanity back
Oh also Hegel

>>12380630
This guy is anti hegelian. His name is Slavoj Zizek. You'll love him! Good luck!

>>12380630
Stop whining and learn to love Hegel.

>>12382889
Don't worry, most men wouldn't dare speak their true views on women to your face and risk social ostracization--the ultimate proof of how far we have strayed from the natural patriarchal order.

>>12380630
Your bf reminds me of those preachers who use religion just to control people. Didn't know they were using German idealism now too.

Just read some logical positivists like Ayer.
The german idealist fear the logical positivist.

>>12382826
Hegel's philosophy really is perfect for narcissists, since the narcissist loves to hide their brutality behind the guise of "rationality."

>>12380630
If legit the easiest way is to call up a criticism of his philosophy of history. Hegel says prostestantism was spirit regaining its freedom. Then ask him if that freedom means gays can fuck each as most prostestant denominations support. Or you can ask if that freedom then means subjective interpretation of truth such as Lutherans do is expected by spirit. Once you look at hegels love of germans and protestants you see he doesnt actually offer a real philosophy that is universal and timeless but rather just continued german masturbation material as such hegel can be discarded as nonsense. Especially if not German.

Not really sure how someone can use hegel to control you though...

>>12384022
A lot of Hegel's political philosophy reads like propaganda for the Prussian state anyway.

Not to mention, there's a reason why Neocons seem to love him, spread muh democracy, that kind of thing.

Seriously what is it with women and OBSESSING over their ex’s? Like I know dudes do that too but women literally blame their mental states on men. That’s 100% their responsibility even if a dude did fuck with their head they were irresponsible enough to get in that situation. As if every step of the way there weren’t signs. On top of this tbey constantly talk about how men are over and women are strong. Isn’t admitting this also a confession that men are smarter than women? I can’t belive I used to feel bad for women like this. I use women al the time now and it feels great bitch.

>>12382797
Is “narcissistic” just the new buzzword for women to throw at their boyfriends? I vote we bring back “pig”. It’s all psychological now.

When a woman has called me “toxic” I knew it was only a matter of time till o literally fucked the living shit out of her, and usually slapped her in the face while it happens. I love hearing it.

>>12383129
Most men aren't depraved misogynists like you are.

>>12384031
Agreed. I may have sounded too harsh of him in my post but I dont like a philosopher pushing propaganda in their ideas. It's one thing to go to a newspaper and shill your current political trend but to incorporate it into a philosophy as if it's some truth is just silly to me. I suppose I want philosophy to deal with timeless ideas that are still relevant to all man. Should I dismiss hegel because I'm not a prussian prostestant? I would say no but do I gain as much from him? Probably not.

>>12384052
Think of it this way: anyone would have a fit if someone whom they trusted to provide them with knowledge turned out to be a total asshat.

>>12384082
Sounds like a personal problem

>>12384080
It's almost as if Hegel's historicism can be used to dismiss his philosophy as well.

Hmmmmm.

>>12380911
Based and cutepilled

>>12380630
>Many times it can be something as benign as him insulting your views indirectly in order to make you question them and your sanity, i.e. gaslighting.

fml, I'm like your boyfriend, but a Stirnerite

>>12384071
Yes they are, sweatie. It's just a thin veneer of civilization keeping us from having our way with you and that veneer is quickly cracking.

>>12381388
>my gf and I both studied philosophy, but it would never occur to me to seriously discuss "political and religious principles" when I'm with her

I argue with my religious (in private) mom about these things regularly. I think the discussions are highly enjoyable and help me understand my own views better. It's not about winning, it's about seeking realisations. I would also talk about these things with a gf if I had one. Seriously what else would one talk about?

try going back to the kitchen, lel

>>12384320
Wow dude that's so original, why don't you shut the fuck up and go sit down on couple of aids filled dicks?

>>12380630
Why the hell are you bitching about your personal problems on a literature forum? If you were in such a dreadful state of mind you wouldn't be posting here but meditating and reading (you would know what to read) instead of asking a board full of virtual misogynist what to tell you to read. It is a simple enough task to research criticisms of Hegel's philosophy but perhaps you needed the attention after your little break up?

>>12381085
Interesting- care to summarize?

>>12381412
>Have you considered that if you tried to understand what the guy was telling you
Omg srsly like can try to engage in conversation with pretext. Hegel is strictly no phony business so she probably got btfo, dialogues probably revolves around him sugarcoating questions to buttress her fragile worldview

>>12382797
Thinking like this is going to turn anyone into a total borderline. The worst types of emotional abuse are when someone uses psychiatric terms to describe you when you're just doing something that comes totally natural to you. OP's boyfriend probably had a very decided worldview with the name Hegel on top, and was closedminded to (and violently against) any belief/statement which seemed non-Hegelian. Another poster ITT pointed out that the bf probably didn't want a gf, just a follower (priest mentality is instinctual in some). The bf probably was misguided and innocent, but that doesn't change the abuse that occured. Painting him as a capital N Narcissist just continues the cycle of demonization. The therapeutic advise (I can only speak from my own life) for OP is: leave the hostile environment, find (or resurrect) an artform/hobby, meditate and think for yourself (If you find out things your bf said were 'right' it doesn't mean his emotional abuse was right). A bad idea is to look for a new bf to 'fix' what the old one did. The only person who can fix you is you. I don't know if this all sounds new-agey or obvious, but it's my personal POV.

Also, read Deleuze. He considered himself anti-Hegel.

>>12381737
wtf

>>12381785
>slowly massages your back

>>12384022
Hegel was clearly involved with his time and place both politically and intellectuly, more so than many of the greatest philosophers, and why that should be a reason for discrediting him is bust

Splitting hairs is within his system, there is no escape. I was discussing this with someone a while ago. I’m not gonna go into it

>>12380928
you sound like a real bitch

>>12380678
pls be my gf

>>12380630

there are no girls on the internet post tits or gtfo

also I literally can't stand you people "durr people disagreeing with me is gaslighting!"

if someone disagreeing with you is enough to destroy everything you stand for then you never believed in anything that strongly in the first place and you shouldn't worry about it.

dumbass will never learn

Kierkegaard desu, he was a student of Hegel but critiques him from an individualistic/existentialist angle. Even if he doesn’t entirely convince you against Hegel, he’s a great read and will hopefully help you in other ways. I’d recommend Fear and Trembling and Sickness Unto Death.

>>12381737
based pornographer

>>12385411
>there is no escape
This is cult-leader speak FYI.

>>12380630

Consider monism as the only actual truth.

Consider the idea that everything we claim to know is on a spectrum of truth - there can never be absolute.

>>12385411
>Splitting hairs is within his system, there is no escape. I was discussing this with someone a while ago. I’m not gonna go into it
Oh thanks glad you had a conversation with someone else so I dont need to think about it anymore...

It's not splitting hairs its saying that his philosophy is corrupted by current trends. Would his interpretation of spirit be different if he wasnt prussian and prostestant. Yes, which makes it hard to accept it as a valid idea as it is presented. He took some universal geist and then made it into German and prostestant. Not really sure how that works for everyone else. Does spirit reside in Munich and speak German? Or is it more than a localized thing?

>>12386804
Seems infantile, but these ideas allow you to believe comfortably that no one person (Hegel or BF) is actually correct.

>>12380678
>t. Grill
why did you feel the need to say that? it immediately invalidated the point you were trying to make. not because girls can't make points but because you couldn't possibly speak for a male with any level of certainty. you didn't say male, but there's never going to be a woman that does this so you are intrinsically speaking out of your ass

>>12380630
Another girl here. Wow, didn't know there's so many of us. ;)

>>12381105
>Absolutely. Pygmalions are always insecure control freaks who are afraid of losing what they have, so they resort to extremely authoritarian mechanisms of control in order to keep their "Galateas" attached to them.
reminds me a lot of what erich fromm said about human relationships. 'pygmalions' never get over the 'i love you because i need you' stage.

>>12381737
Am I the only one who thinks Bataille sounds too much like an eastern mystic, i.e. always emphasizing the fall into "nothing"?

>>12383170
Lol this has got to be the most lame strain of philosophy in the entire history of philosophy. Get fucked

>>12386992
That's not an empiricaly verifiable statement. Pls so I can understand

>>12380630
Karl Popper.

>>12380830
You sound like a ripe piece of shit, you moron. Hegel would puke in your idiotic mouth and Kant would piss in your eyes for that stupid post of yours.

Try discordianism. Also
>having any political opinions in the modern age

Seems you had it coming, OP. Hegel's Dialectic runs deep, for the last 200 years or so.

Vote Republican: You Vote For Dead Muslims via Foot Soldiers
Vote Democrat: You Vote For Dead Muslims via Drones, Making Them Fear Blue Skies.

Also I think your disgust of him is merely an external mirror to your own narcissistic qualities (c'mon, you're stuck in your head all your life).
Know thyself, and you'll understand what happened to you.

>>12387173
>:(

>>12384188
How the fuck is this "gaslighting?"
I thought that was convincing someone they were mentally ill, rather than having a goddamn open discussion about personal philosophies...

This type of soft bullshit makes me resent women, and their crappy "ouchie, ouchie" shawl-wearing shrinks who champion this shit.
Ever think it was just humans interacting with other humans, in an isolated incident among all the other incidents that spiral around, all being able to sprawl into infinite permutations down to the smallest epoch of time? Why try to take patterns from all this chaos, and attach loose definitions to mental states? Words fail to capture even the simplest sensation.

Everyone is a fucking fool.

>>12380678
>Argue with gf and use my favorite philosopher as backing
>Find intellectual conversation important because it's my passion
>Break up
>Gf calims I brainwashed her
>What
Holy shit the absolute state of America.

hegel nmore like bagel

>>12381158
>Someone who is intelligent and thus easily swayed by intellectual shit.
This should be the opposite

>>12387231
Hyperbole at its finest desu... These people know nothing of true brainwashing. Just because you had cognitive dissonance, a really normal thing, doesn't mean you were fucking gaslighted or brainwashed.

>>12387222
Trips of true truth here

>>12380630
K I E R K E G A A R D

>>12387253
Women in America are losing their whole sense of accountability and they're slowly going to look like puffed up Sephora covered squirrels glutted on their arbitrary self-worth from Tinder. The fact disagreement can be considered abusive and other posters think you should avoid "intellectual" debates with SO tells me the stunted state of America

>>12381412
listen to university lectures that summarize Nietzsche's view on embracing truth, Socratic pleb

what a shit thread desu

>>12387986
Welcome to /lit/ 2019. Narratology is dead. Comic books are literature. Long live the meme.

Stop. Thinking.
Meditate and study Zen Buddhism. You can't unfuck a thought with more thought, that's the essence of Hegel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3v9unphfi0&index=3&list=RDKgBazthb_kY

Bless you my dear sweet child, we will all be okay in the end.

is this reddit now?

>>12380830
>implying anyone on /lit/ have ever even read Hegel

>>12381435
Not difficult having a dick bigger than yours, gril or not

>>12386992
>REEE this philosopher I don't like is appearing in the debate, better call him lame REEEEEE

>>12388125
>Narratology is dead.
is is is crossed out....