/lit/ - Literature

This quote is terrifying if you think about it.

>>12302735
Why shouldn't lust be a habit? Lust is natural, lust is healthy, lust is strong. If you indulge meth and it becomes a habit, that's bad obviously. This quote is a lot dumber than it looks at first glance - it's basically "don't do bad things or you might do more bad things." Except the subject is only a bad thing if you're a Christian.

>>12303033
its objectively bad for practical reasons regardless of which philosophy you follow (unless its goddess worship)

>>12303033
Strong desires lead to anxiety and distress. And to bad life choices.

>>12303033
man is an unnatural animal. don't justify your dick's programming

Habits are practiced, addictions are resisted.

>>12303033
Cringe

>>12303033
Appeal (and slave) to nature

>>12303033
because, like meth, it is a unhealthy habit if indulged in excess

from your framework here I'm guessing you judge the merit of habits and urges based on three categories: strength of urge, healthiness of urge, and naturalness of the urge

Meth is bad in your eyes because, although the urge to take it can be strong, it is both unnatural and unhealthy. But pray tell, dear Glaucon, how do we define what is natural and healthy!!?

>>12302735
>>Lust in-dulljgd
>became Hhbit
>haabit Uhn-resisted became necessity
>An'oh sweet lord jesus
>won'tay-a bless-a-me
>this lust engorged remained dang-nabit,
>and fap I did unrestricted and made a mess-on'me.
>cussing blesses readied for his puppytease
>reasoning not with shadows that my seed does not reach
>happy was I to receive again the sublimation of some wartime-passingdrama or tragedy inflated by the spectacle to the point of fetish and obsession. and what release is that precipitating, fools.

>>12303063
Speak for yourself, anon.
>>12303091
Nature "enslaves" us to eating food to nourish ourselves. That in no way diminishes the worth of eating food or indicts the admiration of delicious cakes in a bakery window.
>>12303099
The only part of your post that demands a response is this:
>it is a unhealthy habit if indulged in excess
An excess of alcohol is drunkenness.
An excess of food is gluttony.
An excess of lust is...what? There is no such thing. There is no one to point to and say "his life is in ruins, he lusted too much."
A denial of lust is a denial of life. The opposite: embracing lust, and therefore, embracing life.
Nietzsche took this idea to the extreme in his Dionysian concept: "...the triumphant Yes to life beyond all death and change; true life as the over-all continuation of life through procreation, through the mysteries of sexuality."

>>12303195
>comparing food to sex
and for a moment i took you seriously

>An excess of alcohol is drunkenness.
>An excess of food is gluttony.
>An excess of lust is...what?
it follows the same principle
the notion of lust is not an exception to universal rules, but i will rephrase lust into sexuality, going into negative excess with sexuality is lust and fornication

>>12303195
>>12303195
Lust is an excess of sexual desire. And plenty of people have had their lives ruined due to lust.

>>12303195
lust can be funneled into excessive masturbation, which leads one into a life of seclusion. in this case excessive lust is life denying

If lust is excessively indulged in other people, i.e. you fuck every thot and boipussi you possibly can, you get nothing to show for yourself asides from a few STD's. You produce nothing except maybe fatherless sons. Is this really a life affirming?

>>12303195
>Speak for yourself, anon.
In your opinion, a strong desire for sex doesn't lead to anxiety and distress? Or bad life choices?

>>12303195
Nietzsche was an idiot who ended life in a miserable way. Besides, even he himself didn't overindulge in sex.

>>12303195
porn addiction ruined my life and brain. all it thinks about now is sex. it wasn't this bad in puberty for fucks sake. Augustine is right. i don't even believe in God. i hate this and hate idiots like you trying to make people keep up bad habits.

>>12303216
I didn't compare anything to sex, you doofus. Lust and sex are not synonymous.
>but i will rephrase lust into sexuality
And I will not.
>>12303232
Are you seriously suggesting that happy people with great social lives abandon their friends and love relationships to indulge in lust and masturbate?
>Anon, come on the ski trip with us! It's gonna be fun! All the guys will be there and your crush too.
>Nah I'm good I uh...gotta look at some stuff on my computer
Nah, man. I'd go on the fucking ski trip, lust after the girl I like, maybe masturbate thinking about her later, or just try to date her so I could have sex with her sometime. That's life affirming. The option where you end up not going and masturbating is a consequence of psychological issues or withdrawal that has nothing to do with lust.
>>12303238
Lust doesn't lead to anxiety and distress or bad life choices. Ironically, Christians may experience anxiety and distress from lust, since they still do it despite thinking it's wrong.
>>12303264
>porn addiction
>all I thinks about now is sex
I don't see a problem, unless you're literally unable to think about anything else but sex, which is obviously not the case since you're posting here.

>>12303420
if you think lust is neutral you are mentally ill

Isn't there some quote that goes along the lines of "If you truly wish to destroy a man give him everything he wants"

>>12303420
>Lust doesn't lead to anxiety and distress or bad life choices. Ironically, Christians may experience anxiety and distress from lust, since they still do it despite thinking it's wrong.

Are you a troll or are you an alien with no idea about how human beings work?
What happens to someone who feels a lot of lust, a lot of sexual desire, but who can't satisfy it?

What does a young man who really feels tons of desire feels when he has to talk to an attractive woman? Anxiety.

What would you call the choice of a man that cheats on his wife with a prostitute and who by doing so ends up breaking his family?

>>12303033
Explain why you think lust isn't bad

>>12303033
Eh

>>12303195
Lust is already the term for an excess of sexual desire

>>12303582
If I get my balls drained every night I will always be in a good mood. Being in a good mood allows me to focus and to control my temper and anxiety. Doing this will give me the strength to become what I really am and to best lead others to prosperity and their destinies. Therefore, I should have my balls drained every night by a blazn goddess with big tits and nice legs

>>12303605
>If I get my balls drained every night I will always be in a good mood.
I guess that's why Charlie Sheen and porn actors had never had any psychological problems in their lives. Because apparently sex can guarantee you a good mood.
Rockstars are also very famous for their mental stability.

>>12303639
>cherry pick the extreme end of the spectrum
>Throw in rockstars who are known to not only take on an excess of sex, but drugs and partying as well

hmmm
it's almost as if some measure of restraint is the thing separating being a closeted bitter incel from a Don Juan bachelor strung out on coke and ecstasy

>>12303702
>some measure of restraint
But weren't you the one defending lust, that is an excess of sexual desire?

>>12303195
>a denial of lust is a denial of life
How does that even follow

>>12303033
>lust is healthy
tell that to everyone that works at kink.com

>>12303033
you have a natural appetite for eating too, but in excess it will ruin you.

>>12303425
It's not neutral. It's great and life-affirming.
>>12303522
>What happens to someone who feels a lot of lust, a lot of sexual desire, but who can't satisfy it?
Did it ever occur to you that the act of lust can be satisfying in and of itself? I feel more manly and virile when I lust. That feels great. My heart rate goes up, it feels primal, I enjoy it. And if I choose to remember my lust when I masturbate or have sex, all the better.
>What does a young man who really feels tons of desire feels when he has to talk to an attractive woman? Anxiety.
Oh man this is just pathetic. Speak for yourself.
>What would you call the choice of a man that cheats on his wife with a prostitute and who by doing so ends up breaking his family?
You know what - this illustrates something that you guys have wrong about sex. You think it's about lust. Wrong. It's not. It's about intimacy more than lust. If you look into the reasons why men visit prostitutes, a craving for intimacy tops lust. Being physically close with and sharing a deeply personal, emotional experience with someone you're attracted to is the main allure of sex. Lust is secondary. Most wives know that their husbands lust after other women, that doesn't break families. Becoming intimate with a woman other than your wife is another matter entirely.
>>12303582
Read the thread.

Obviously there are Christians in this thread that are trying to make arguments to justify their holy book's condemnation of lust. I understand that and I actually empathize with you guys, because you are lusting probably as much as I do and it sucks that you feel bad about it. Maybe one day you'll realize that your religion, as you practice it, is anti-life.
For the rest of you - if there are any non-Christians objecting here, which may be doubtful - it seems like you associate lust with your own personal failures and issues other than lust that you conflate with it, such as lack of self-control or social withdrawal. Once again I reference Nietzsche:
"The great epochs of our lives come when we gather the courage to reconceive our evils as what is best in us."

>>12303719
nah, but lust I think can be more broadly defined than as pure excess. We have lust when the base will is burgeoning over us and our senses: this happens to nearly everybody on earth with a sex drive. You likely have been taken up by a young girl at some point, and irrespective of how pure your intentions may be, you will come to consider her in a sexual light. That may come consciously, it may come compulsively, it may come in the wee waking hours of the morn when you're not really sure of what you're even thinking. But you will have lust, and lust will need to be sated. The restraint is how you arrest that urge in your interactions with others, and regular masturbation is a healthy practice that reduces your chance of prostate cancer. Being a celibate, chaste monk is a gateway to the problems endemic to the church; perversion, pedastry, things of that kind.

>>12303764
>Did it ever occur to you that the act of lust can be satisfying in and of itself? I feel more manly and virile when I lust. That feels great. My heart rate goes up, it feels primal, I enjoy it. And if I choose to remember my lust when I masturbate or have sex, all the better.

You didn't answer my question, did you?
Tell me, what happens when someone has a lot of sexual desire but is incapable of satisfying them?

>Oh man this is just pathetic. Speak for yourself.
Mr Alien, that's not a proper answer. People who have a lot of desire but who are uncertain about achieving them feel anxiety.

>You know what - this illustrates something that you guys have wrong about sex. You think it's about lust. Wrong. It's not. It's about intimacy more than lust. If you look into the reasons why men visit prostitutes, a craving for intimacy tops lust. Being physically close with and sharing a deeply personal, emotional experience with someone you're attracted to is the main allure of sex. Lust is secondary. Most wives know that their husbands lust after other women, that doesn't break families. Becoming intimate with a woman other than your wife is another matter entirely.

Mr Alien, you certainly don't know men who visit prostitutes. They don't want to feel connected to the prostitutes. To have intimacy with them. They don't even respect the prostitutes, usually. They want to satisfy their urges.
Lust.

I think it is clear that you are not a human male, that you have no contact with many human beings and that you are ignorant about philosophy or lust.

>>12303764
I will also tell you a secret: Christians are not the only ones that consider an excess of sexual desire a bad thing.

>>12303778
Lust is defined as an excess of desire for sexual pleasure.

>>12302735

>Not citing the original

Quippe ex voluntate perversa facta est libido, et dum servitur libidini, facta est consuetudo, et dum consuetudini non resistitur, facta est necessitas.

>>12303033
having lust is natural, however indulging in it constantly is a bad idea

>>12303033
Like with all Christian sins, there is a time and place for everything. Lust is one such sin, with the proper fulfillment and utilization being in your spouse. This creates the most stable homes and the best place for future generations, deepens the bond between man and woman and such.

>>12303195
>An excess of lust is...what? There is no such thing. There is no one to point to and say "his life is in ruins, he lusted too much."
You're delusional. Someone can, for example, get addicted to masturbation and fap for 8 hours a day. You wouldn't call this life-ruining, you ingrate?
>Nietzsche
Like clockwork

>>12303905

>>12303195
>>12303764
>Nietzsche
The absolute irony.

>>12303230
this

>>12303033
>Why shouldn't lust be a habit?
It creates a fundamental heteronomy of the will and places one in subjection to a lower instinct that does and creates absolutely nothing (especially when divorced from procreation) and in doing so causes an individual to lose autonomy over self. Soon their dreams, ambitions and long term planning takes a side seat to the more evolutionarily pressing concern of getting off.

>Lust is natural, lust is healthy, lust is strong.
Appeal to nature.
You also are mistaken, just because you read a blip in Men's Health or other pop-source saying "its healthy" does not make it so; often, the experts quoted in saying this are parroting sexologists, who themselves are illiterate of medicine, much less basic anatomy. Some experts
Continued sexual indulgence has been shown to measurably decrease grey matter in the right caudate. It is a well known phenomonon that reproductive activity is inversely associated with lifespan in both fruit flies and rats. There is no reason to presuppose that sexual excesses are in any way healthy. In fact, even looking at it through the lens of this fallacy (NATURAL = GOOD), you will find that the artificial and sedentary lifestyle of modern man, bombarded constantly by an almost limitless variety of sexual stimuli, give rise to a greater frequency than we see in any other mammal.

As to it being "strong", the point of this entire thread was that it becomes STRONGER with repeated indulgence, until you are but a worthless dick for a brain. The libido as some mysterious force that happens to vary between individuals without explanation is an obsolete notion; nay, it is subject to behavioral input and habituation. Sexual activity induces ΔFosB, a major driver of habitual behavior. This is the reason why many individuals in this licentious era have noted that their sex drives have only increased since puberty. What may have been once a week as a early teen grew to every other day by mid teens to daily by late, and bidaily (if not more frequent!) by the 20s. Some may point to the hormonal hypothesis, which does play a role but this is a reductionist viewpoint. The only hormone that relates with sexual frequency is DHT, which may be elevated upon indulgence, leading to feedback-loop of sorts.

The idea that human sexuality is a free lunch able to be indulged in with impunity is a recent phenomenon, and an absurd notion if you study the complex physiology that occurs behind the scenes.

1/2

2/2

>If you indulge meth and it becomes a habit, that's bad obviously.
Straw man, one posited by a psychopharmacological illterate at that. Remarkable how you find that "bad obviously" but fail to see the the damage that sexual excess and being a slave to this instinct can cause.
Oh too, the Irony.
>Craving Responses to Methamphetamine and Sexual Visual Cues in Individuals With Methamphetamine Use Disorder After Long-Term Drug Rehabilitation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29725310/
"that sexual demand might be more robust than drug demand"

What is even more unsettling than this urge being stronger, by evolutionary design, it induces hypofrontality so as to ensure that procreation occurs rather than be debated and philosophized over, in effect giving an individual a temporary lobotomy to ensure that the sex act is completed without much debate. And this is an instinct that you think reinforcing isn't a big deal? Remarkable.

>Except the subject is only a bad thing if you're a Christian.
I don't believe in God.
You're such a brainlet that the only possible explanation. It goes to show that your entire opposition to religion in the first place isn't even predicated on any natural

You are the biological perfectionist who presupposes natural actions beget no consequences. You have a naive, idealistic view of the human body, its physiology, which amounts to nothing more than an excuse for your hedonistic activities.

Sources for various claims:

Sexual arousal induces hypofrontality, impairing working memory and executive performance:
>Pornographic picture processing interferes with working memory performance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167900

>Sexual Arousal Decreases the Functional Synchronization Between Cortical Areas in Young Men
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0092623X.2012.665815?journalCode=usmt20

>The Impact of Sexual Arousal on Sexual Risk-Taking and Decision-Making in Men and Women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26310879

Adverse effects of sexual excess on the brain:

>Brain structure and functional connectivity associated with pornography consumption: the brain on porn.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871202
Shows a loss of gray matter in the right caudate of the striatum from pornography indulgence.

>>12305752
>"that sexual demand might be more robust than drug demand"

>>12305743
>>12305752
>>12305756
Thanks for your hard work Anon

Literally nothing wrong with jacking off :^)

>>12305786
Is it your defining factor? Depends a lot on what you jack off to as well.

>>12305786
>rationalization, the post.

>>12303230
>>12303232
>>12303264
If masturbation is indulging in lust, then eating is gluttony.

>>12305800
It literally is.
Also, nice straw man. Eating is a need. You do not "need" to indulge (and thus reinforce), your sexual instinct with masturbation.

>>12305796
8)

>>12305800

>>12305800
What is your take on circlejerking and mental masturbation? Are they not indulging by definition?

>>12303033
yikers

>>12303033
>Furthermore, the will, no longer follows reasons but rather the tumult of the passions.
This resonated with me with respects to pornography (which always was heterosexual). I frequently find myself saying this whenever I see arguments such as this or realize how sexual instinct hijacks control, or if I accidentally stumble upon porn.

>>12303033
>lust is healthy, lust is strong

>>12305800
imagine being this much of a brainlet

>all the slave morality ITT

>5 months ago, chaste anons were a small minority
>now they dominate all discussion

>>12305898
>>12305646

>>12303232
Imagine having your life philosophy negated by the fact that condoms exist.

>>12305743
>>12305752
>>12305756
Good work

>>12305928
>chaste anons
Round here we call that "an incel"

>>12305963
You have nothing to show for it even if you don't catch disease. You can safely test, dose and inject heroin and it might provide pleasure but at the end of the day, doing so has done nothing for you.

>>12305993
Go back, they’re religious LARPers.

>>12305993
My chastity was not involuntary.
By expressing it as such, that means you do desire it, which is not what is going on here.
>>12305999
I don't believe in God.

>>12302735

With each disparaging reply and deleted thread you inch closer to despair and actualizing your fetish of being ejaculated into.

>>12306005
If you believe that not fapping will grant you superhuman powers that counts as religion. Otherwise I have no bad words for you.

>>12305999
aka incels deluding themselves into thinking it's a deliberate choice

>>12305993
>>12306018
You lost so badly that you are now resorting to this?

>>12306018
You're the one who thinks the body is perfect. That sounds more religious to me than saying sexual actions precipitate consequences that if avoided can be beneficial.

Good morning anons! Look like you guys are still at it.
>It creates a fundamental heteronomy of the will
Your Christianity is showing. Lust is as much a part of me and my will as any other aspect of my person. Why don't you just admit that you're religious? It's not like you don't have company.
>causes an individual to lose autonomy over self. Soon their dreams, ambitions and long term planning takes a side seat to the more evolutionarily pressing concern of getting off.
Speak for yourself. Harvard Law students, members of Congress, and famous writers are lusting just as much as high school dropouts living in their mom's basement. Everyone lusts, including you, and it's sad that you feel this way about it.
>>12305743
>reproductive activity
Oh so we're talking about "reproductive activity" now? Sex? You're against sex? OK, got it.
>a psychopharmacological illterate
Huh? Meth kills people. I would call that a bad habit.
>sexual demand might be more robust than drug demand
Cool. I have no problem with this.
>Sources for various claims:
>Source 1: "Sexual Arousal"
>Source 2: "Sexual Arousal"
>Source 3: "Sexual Arousal"
Not that I give a shit about "scientific" "studies" in the first place - but with that out of the way-
You're against sexual arousal? This is a good point to bring up another point for you Christians (or LARPers) -
You do realize that married men can lust after their wives, and are sexually aroused by them? And wives are, in turn, sexually aroused by their husbands? I guess this is bad, according to you? It's hard for me to even imagine how one would reach such a sorry state of mind.
Source 4: The brain on porn
Absolute garbage "study" as usual, but if you prefer to avoid porn, exercise some self-control and do it. Lust has always existed, for many thousands of years of human history, long before porn was around.
>>12305993
I would hate to use the term incel myself, but the opposition to lust, sexual arousal, masturbation, sex, porn - pretty much everything about sexuality - definitely suggests acute sexual frustration in this thread. Some people feel sexuality is out of their control, they want to be "getting laid" but can't seem to make it happen, they believe they're not sexually desirable - so they lay the blame on sexuality in general and declare themselves to be superior by condemning it - even though they're still just as sexual as before. Self-hatred and guilt is not superiority. It's weakness.

1/2

2/2
Ladies and gentlemen, once again Nietzsche rises to the occasion far better than I can.
>The church fights passion with excision in every sense: its practice, its “cure,” is castratism. It never asks: “How can one spiritualize, beautify, deify a craving?”...The practice of the church is hostile to life.
>The same means in the fight against a craving - castration, extirpation - is instinctively chosen by those who are too weak-willed, too degenerate, to be able to impose moderation on themselves...Radical means are indispensable only for the degenerate.
>The spiritualization of sensuality is called love: it represents a great triumph over Christianity.
>Anti-natural morality - that is, almost every morality which has so far been taught, revered, and preached - turns, conversely, against the instincts of life: it is the condemnation of these instincts, now secret, now outspoken and impudent. When it says, “God looks at the heart,” it says No to both the lowest and the highest desires of life, and posits God as the enemy of life. The saint in whom God delights is the ideal eunuch. Life has come to an end where the “kingdom of God” begins.
Castration. Weak-willed. Degenerate. Anti-natural. Is that the path you want to go down? You can always choose to affirm life at any time. I will continue to do so. Lust is one small part of this expression of health, of vitality, of love for life: the spiritualization of sensuality. I'm absolutely in love with that concept. And I like the way my life is going. I enjoy life. It doesn't sound like most anons in this thread can say the same. This unpleasantness, this revulsion from life, from even the self and the body, because of a sense of duty to an anti-life religion, brings to mind Nietzsche one last time:
>One must pay dearly for immortality: one has to die several times while still alive.

>>12306278
Extreme cringe. You absolutely cannot reconcile someone opposing sexual indulgence in absence of religious motivations.

>>12306307
>>12305646

>>12302735
This describes hedonic adaptation and why indulgence leads to unfulfillment.

>>12306278
>You do realize that married men can lust after their wives, and are sexually aroused by them? And wives are, in turn, sexually aroused by their husbands? I guess this is bad, according to you? It's hard for me to even imagine how one would reach such a sorry state of mind.

>>12305898
Actually read Nietzsche you fucking parrot babies

>>12306278
>>12306307

I don't associate cumming with the fullness of life, and when you get older hopefully you won't either

The spiritualization of sensuality is Love, not lust you troglodyte

>>12306278
>Your Christianity is showing
Your Kantian illiteracy is showing; the thoughts on will/heternomy are from German Idealist/Kantian at core, not Christian. Its obvious you never read a single work of Kant. You pretend to be well read in philosophy but its obvious you've never had a more than an undergrad summary understanding of the material, as further evidenced by your "DUDE THIS IS DEEP" tier understanding of Nietzsche.
>Source 4: The brain on porn
You absolute brainlet, the fourth study has nothing to do with "Your Brain On Porn".
It's from the JAMA Psychiatry (Journal of the American Medical Association), not a "garbage" study. Holy shit, you're retarded for confusing a little addendum to the title with that website.

>>12306278
Are you honestly unable to even imagine that someone who is capable of having sex might consciously choose not to? Anyone who voluntarily chooses to be celibate and forego physical pleasure is just a sexually frustrated incel rationalizing their inability to have sex?

>>12307128
This is what Americans actually believe, they literally can't think outside the dichotomy of either complete submission to the sexual instinct or sublimating away the inability to completely submit to the sexual instinct. It's pathetic.

>>12306398
based Kantian chasteposter blowing brainlets the fuck out

>>12306307
Love is not lust, read Plato

>>12306307
>Dude Nietzsche lmao

Stop watching porn.

>>12307154
>This is what Americans actually believe, they literally can't think outside the dichotomy of either complete submission to the sexual instinct or sublimating away the inability to completely submit to the sexual instinct.

I noticed this, as well

>>12307154
Well said. Even their reasoning for explaining away the latter is extremely bastardized Freudian theory (dude repressed dude, sexual frustration dude!), which is ironic considering Freud himself practiced sexual abstinence.
>Sigmund Freud Psychologist, founder of Psychoanalysis: “Freud held the opinion (based on personal experience and observation) that sexual activity was incompatible with the accomplishing of any great work. Since he felt that the great work of creating and establishing psychotherapy was his destiny, he told his wife that they could no longer engage in sexual relations. Indeed from about the age of forty until his death Freud was absolutely celibate “in order to sublimate the libido for creative purposes.” – according to his biographer Ernest Jones.