/lit/ - Literature

>>12294344
The idea of abstract objects isn’t really that outlandish. Dude was just trying to figure out how the world was at all intelligible.

>>12294344
>Still?

>>12294371
No high functioning person over the age of 18 actually agrees with Nietzsche's philosophy. He was just an interesting phenomenon.

So, do you have any constructive criticisms against the theory of forms?

>>12294378
On the contrary, ALL high functioning people over the age of 18 actually agree with Nietzsche's philosophy. You've just outed yourself as a massive pseud.

>>12294404
cringe

>>12294392
there's no reason to think they exist

Hol up my niggas!
So this Retard thought there's this intangible thing called an 'Atom'? And there's a world full of them? And natural philosophers STILL believe in 'Atoms'???
WTF

>>12294410
Atoms aren't intangible, you retard

>>12294406
No need to describe your own expression when looking in the mirror.

>>12294409
How else should one explain the complexity of human cognition and the idea of recollection (later to be called a priori intution by Kant)?

>>12294451
Read Saussure.

>>12294466
>Ferdinand de Saussure was a Swiss linguist and semiotician.
Sorry I'm not into language games.

>>12294451
if you're not equipped to explain it, don't

>>12294476
>How else should one explain the complexity of human cognition and the idea of recollection
That's what semiotics is all about.

>>12294344
>And philosophers STILL believe in 'Forms'?

Mathematicians believe in them, or at least they act as if they do, at least on workdays. On weekends they may entertain whatever meme philosophy is on vogue.

Modern philosophers are full of shit, who cares.

>>12294409
Forms of numbers exist, Socrates and Plato copied the idea but went too far and applied them to chairs and floors and shit.

>>12294667
>Socrates and Plato copied the idea but went too far and applied them to chairs and floors and shit.

I think we can forgive them for being unsophisticated, given that it was two millennia and a half ago and yet they basically asked all the main questions and explored the right answers in some form. For a modern take you can try Kolmogorov Complexity and related brainfuckery.

>>12294392
>Multiple books and arguments amassed over millenia giving reasons for the existence of forms
>No reason to think they exist

>>12294451
You would need to dive into actual science instead of grasping first arbitrary guess.

>>12294421
BURN
who knew KEK was inflammable?

>>12295411
>akshul syens!!!

>>12294476
*semiologist
>>12294492
semiology is nothing like
semiotics
>>12294466
read Peirce (pbuh)

>>12295434
>muh orgone theory explained living things much better because it gave me feelings and was easier to grasp. Begone with your soulless stemfaggotry you accursed anglo!

Mathematics is full of forms. They're things that don't exist in the physical world, but do have definite properties and intricate structures that can be studied and discovered. Finding these forms is a logical process, not an artistic one.

>>12295463
>an empirical discipline can tell us of non-empirical realities

The absolute state of human thought in 2018.

>>12294344
yes, as the principle of similitude

there is no transcendent realm of forms, that's a meme, they are simultaneously immanent and transcendent to matter (matter is determinable, forms are determining)

>>12295411
science is silent on the problem of universals

Plato never literally believed in this, nor does any serious (non-analytic-retard) philosopher entertain this, much less believe it

>>12294344
OP you are a massive fucking brainlet and there is no repairing it, you will forever be dumb as fuck i feel sorry for you

with that said, if you live in a world of mythology and have no grasp on evolution or anything -- it's quite bizarre that people somehow create other people that look similar but different. it's bizarre how animals, bugs, plants, everything living behaves like this. what are these things modelled after? how is this decided? how the fuck do multiple different things have "whiteness" or "redness", the fuck does that even mean? why are some things "more red"? is there a "reddest red"? how can we say that something is "more good" than something else if we don't know what the ultimate good is, to compare the two? does every attribute have an ultimate Form?

this line of thought is very intuitional if you can put yourself in their position and if you have an iq above 90, which you clearly don't

>>12295549
>Plato never believed in his theory of Forms
based and retardpilled

>>12294411
yes they are. you can't literally touch two atoms together. and everything fundamentally is confined energy

get btfod eternally dumbass dont even reply because im not gonna read it

>>12295570
it was satire. why do you think his philosophical dialogues are framed as plays, rather than scientific inquiries? he was taking a piss at the mythological and ridiculous modes of thinking of a primitive society. plato had 100iq and knew about experimental science, the world of forms is him mocking his 85iq friends way of thinking (atributting grandiose idealistic thinking to materialistic reality)

>>12295594
you don't really believe this, do you anon?

>>12294344
The Santa hat is fucking perfect here.

>>12295582
You can't touch them together because there's a force repelling them. That doesn't mean they're intangible. Tard.

>>12295411
Kant was one of the most brilliant scientists of his time before he read Hume and had his philosophical turn. If you disregard Kant you should disregard Copernicus and Newton too
>In the Universal Natural History, Kant laid out the Nebular hypothesis, in which he deduced that the Solar System had formed from a large cloud of gas, a nebula. Kant also correctly deduced that the Milky Way was a large disk of stars, which he theorized formed from a much larger spinning gas cloud. He further suggested that other distant "nebulae" might be other galaxies. These postulations opened new horizons for astronomy, for the first time extending it beyond the Solar System to galactic and intergalactic realms.[54] According to Thomas Huxley (1867), Kant also made contributions to geology in his Universal Natural History, and according to Lord Kelvin (1897), he made contributions useful to mathematicians and astronomers.

>>12295649
when is a force tangible? It's the interactions of fields, there's no minute "stuff" at the center of an atom, it's frozen energy

>>12295655
everything is frozen energy

>>12295671
Everything is stuck slime.
The Life-slime is a sticky liquid. It's residue is a stuck soild, and only sticks to the sticky liquid of Life-slimes. Life slimes always have some degree of stuckness, as it always stuck to some residue. They leave residue behind, they are always concressing, depositing residue, excreting goo and sticking to stuck slime.

>>12295701
this would have been a slam dunk if we did not have billions if not trillions of examples in the sky - and the one that lights the day - that matter is indeed cooled plasma and not slime

>>12295582
>modern theory of atoms is the same as democritus' theory of atoms

>>12295778
Matter doesn't matter, I am talking about LIFE, which is a slime. we only know about matter from the qualities of matter that are sticking to the Lifeslime.
Maybe people just aren't ready for Slime theory

>>12295511
thats a fair point with regard to thought or abstract ideas but the Issue of forms is still unsolved 2500 years after Plato. I remember reading somewhere that because Greek philosophy was relatively young during the time of Socrates and Plato, Plato genuinely believed that they would be able to find the form of good through philosophical inquiry in the imminent future. This obviously hasn't happened so it casts doubt on the universal applicability of the forms.

>>12295594
>are framed as plays
what? it's a dialectic. it was a proto-scientific method of "reaching the truth". they did not even have the linguistic or literal tools to be scientific in the modern sense of the word

essentially every scholar agrees plato believed in his own theory of Forms in spite of his problems with it

it's literally his solution to the problem of universals, and why he was quite dismissive of the tangible realm

>>12295784
nobody said that retard