/lit/ - Literature

>>12208052
Don't read this if you're a 22 year old doomer because it probably will.

>>12208052
It's litteraly the dumb eat shit You can read today. If You're a valuable human being with an acceptable culture it'll make You laugh.

It'll make you wanna kill Thomas Ligotti.

Nah he's alright

http://weirdfictionreview.com/2011/12/the-red-tower-by-thomas-ligotti/

>not wanting to kill yourself already
What are you doing on this website?

>>12208083
>a valuable human being with an acceptable culture
doesn't exist

>human beings are the most retarded organisms on Earth
Based and blackpilled

>>12208126
Self-awareness was a mistake

>Some critics of the pessimist often think they have his back to the wall when they blithely jeer, “If that is how this fellow feels, he should either kill himself or be decried as a hypocrite.” That the pessimist should kill himself in order to live up to his ideas may be counterattacked as betraying such a crass intellect that it does not deserve a response. Yet it is not much of a chore to produce one. Simply because someone has reached the conclusion that the amount of suffering in this world is enough that anyone would be better off never having been born does not mean that by force of logic or sincerity he must kill himself. It only means he has concluded that the amount of suffering in this world is enough that anyone would be better off never having been born. Others may disagree on this point as it pleases them, but they must accept that if they believe themselves to have a stronger case than the pessimist, then they are mistaken
What's his point here? What's the difference between never being born and the 'perfect annihilation' of death which includes memories? You'll cease to be - identical to never existing.

>>12208138
You're acting as if suicide is a switch or something, rather than a traumatic act of self destruction. A pessimist could have any number of reasons for not killing themselves or doing whatever else it is you think the position obligates them to do.

>>12208138
It's intellectual pedantics.

The problem is that if someone think that something is a force of good or suffering, he has to act upon it, that's what the guys saying kys are telling him.

This is a lazy way to say, "I just have to think about it :)".
Because otherwise the straightest thing to do would be to burn everything around and making sure nothing exist anymore since the amount of suffering is not worth it.

And that takes effort.

tldr; His point is laziness.

>>12208160
>If you think life is not worth it because of suffering you should create more suffering for people
Epic refutation

>>12208160
>he has to act upon it
hume.jpeg

>>12208115
Yes it does
You are one, anon
Many people are
You can't be perfect but You can be good enought

>>12208168

what if you find a way to make the annihilation painless?

>>12208151
They'd still be hipocrites tho because they'd fail to accomplish the logical conclusión of their own philosophy.
You're an hipocrite even If You have "Good reason" to be.

>>12208181
>the amount of suffering in this world is . . .
So far we are dealing with an "is" statement

>would be better off
and now the "ought" statement has been introduced.

His ought rule is that not suffering is better than suffering. He argues that it would be better not to experience the great amount of suffering in life.

If never having been born counts as "not suffering", then death must count as well.

The amount of suffering you will experience in the act of suicide is small in comparison to the amount you will suffer by continuing to live. He must commit suicide.

>>12208151
>I think you're confusing suicide with self-destruction.

>>12208288
Well said

>>12208288
oh you mean this?

>>12208288
I bet you get tons of pussy

Get fucked nerd

>>12208126
if that statement holds true then you'd have to disregard whomever made that statement

>>12208309

I think that guy needs to neck himself too, if the truly believes his own shit.

I actually agree with some of what they say though. Life is indeed suffering. Where I disagree is the part where they say non-existence should count as "not suffering". Suffering and non-suffering only happen within the context of consciousness, it doesn't make sense to talk about the non-suffering of non-existence.

the only book that made me want to kill myself was Enlightenment Now
I enjoyed this book, it made me feel comfy

>>12208052
That cover makes me want to kill myself

>>12208288
Read the fucking book nigger. Ligotti never claims to be some kind of enlightened saint capable of throwing his life away for convictions. His brain is the same sentient parasite designed by nature to fight teeth and claw for it's perpetual existence. The tragedy, the real suffering of existence is exactly that - once a being comes to exist, they thirst for meaning and purpose, in the cold universe that never cared to provide one, through reason the being realises this with horror and begins to suffer, yet it also begins do everything in its power to stay delusional and sedated to keep this idea from surfacing again (Ligotti sardonically cites the act of writing a book called "Conspiracy Against the Human Race" as one such attempt at self-delusion). He provides several examples of people who did commit suicide after arriving at pessimism, and laments that such people are extremely rare to ever affect human race as a whole

>>12208334
The book should be pushed on to others who decide to have kids and can't take care of them.

Better yet, people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce until they meet a special criteria that will also determine the number of kids they may have.

Because at the rate people are going this is going to become less of a comedy and more of documentary.

>>12208364

>>12208251

If we consider there is a survival instinct that acts against self-annihilation, it doesn't contradict the author's idea that human conscious could have been a mistake though. It's good to at least have this doubt.

Killing yourself won't make a difference anyways.

>>12208410
Does Ligotti couch his thesis in doubt, or does he say consciousness was a mistake.
If the latter, he’s the worst kind of charlatan.

>>12208251
You can also be a hypocrite and still right. It's almost like vaulting meaningless ad hominem attacks on the person instead of addressing their argument is fucking stupid and helps nobody.

>>12208439
Care to explain why?

>Inb4 Answer

>>12208052
only if you alrrady kind of want to

>>12208707
Yes, the Greco-Roman moralists and their absolute hatred of charlatans.
If his teaching is that human consciousness is a mistake, and his actions don’t live up to his words, he’s the pits.

>>12208896
Actions count, not words.

>>12208052
one of my fav book. just read it OP. I hate the new penguin cover tho, looks too edgy, the old one, dark + font is better

>>12208486
If You're an hypocrite it doesn't matter that You're right. Your own behaviour impeachs your philosophy anyway.
>>12208410
So What If there's a survival instinct? You're called to do the right thing regardless of your instincts and that's one of the fundamentals of the philosophy of ethics whose validity the author accepts anyway or he wouldn't launch on a diatribe over the fact that his parents were assholes because they didn't abort him (on this We incidentally agree: If only miss and mr Ligotti had just bought a coathanger at the department store so many years ago!); so It's absolutely legitimate to tell the Author that since he won't hang himself he can't be taken seriously.
His philosophy can't be taken seriously anyway, even ignoring the author's hypocrisy for a second he's an amateur with no real talent or vision; but If You want ONE SIMPLE REASON to ignore him, here You have it.

>>12209469
>If You're an hypocrite it doesn't matter that You're right
YIKES

>>12209489
Point is, we can’t know the author is right
But we do know the author’s actions are quite different than his words

>>12209489
Yike all you want. It's true.

Glad someone had the balls to call Nietzsche on his bullshit

>>12209567
Could you explain?

>>12208486
Ad hominem isn’t always a fallacy
Some of us are impeaching the author for not taking his own advice
One thing about Nietzsche—you learn everyone is suspicious
Is the author like Jack Kevorkian?

>>12209619
>not taking his own advice
Ligotti's not giving you any advices. It's not a self-help book, not a manual to action. Notice there are no chapters on room service and peniswashing.

>>12209631
It’s well-written
I’m reading it
Sure sounds like he’s trying to persuade

>>12209631
thanks for reminding me to perform my weekly wash
brb