/lit/ - Literature

You might like Mark Fisher as he is the late-capitalist sadboi supreme.

>>12148167
What I want diagnosed is why you deemed it necessary to say “let’s call it-“, is it so that you feel more intellectual?

>>12148167
>late-stage capitalism
I hate this meme term as it implies that capitalism is going to end soon and that it won't drastically change before it does. Can anyone tell me its origins?

>>12148183
Oh dear. What are we to do with you? You have lost the, shall we say, signal and received only noise, as it were.

>>12148188
It implies that there's nothing after as the world will plunge into an inescapable memetic void.

>>12148188
Its a cummie term but normo leftists use it too because they're retarded and don't know what it means.

>>12148188

It sounds like something along the lines of Ted Kaczynski. Not sure though.

>>12148193
BASED

>>12148188
Sombart was the first to use the term, but most people got it from Adorno

The tl;dr version is late stage capitalism refers to post industrial modern society

>>12148188
It's simply a way of distinguishing the earlier modern culture of mercantilism and economic nationalism from the postmodern condition of the neoliberal order. The latter is more concerned with the circulation of capital and the deregulation of the banks and free market trade than it is with the geographic concentration of wealth. The implication is not that capitalism will end soon, but rather that we are approaching its "final" form as an autonomous dissipative system that exacerbates the antagonism between classes to its breaking point (Marx voted in favour of free trade for this very reason, in that it was an effective tool in hastening social revolution).

>>12148363
Accepting your definition, what do we call our times because it's only a minority that favour deregulation and genuinely pursue free-market trade? Even within them, it is only an ideal as in practice our economy is regulated heavier and heavier (arguably for the benefit of large multi-national companies). The banking sector is unrecognisable to what it was in the 80s and has even changed massively since 2008.

>>12148181
definitely this.

>>12148404
>what do we call our times because it's only a minority that favour deregulation and genuinely pursue free-market trade?
this is what "late-stage" refers to, we haven't reached the "final" vector of absolute deterritorialisation because there are always going to be monopolies that reterritorialise the flows of capital back onto the grid and restrict them accordingly, rather than allowing them to escape codification. If you're familiar with Deleuze, the reason why late-stage capitalism is a penultimate approach and not the final stage is simply the difference between relative and absolute deterritorialisation– we simply haven't gone far enough.

>Le late capitalism
>1991

Wew commies are a fucking meme

>>12148553
>[late stage capitalism] is more concerned with ... the deregulation of the banks and free market trade
>[only a minority that favour deregulation and genuinely pursue free-market trade] is what "late-stage" refers to

Love leftists' rhetoric. It's always so slippery to encompass whatever they want to mean to run rings around people.
>ah you see, it's not real communism
>ah you see, this opposite of late stage capitalism is also late stage capitalism

>>12148188
>Can anyone tell me its origins?
Werner Sombart used "late capitalism" in his book about Capitalism in 1902. It then became a popular meme among socialists before WW2 who believed capitalism was close to collapsing.

Later in the 60s it was picked up again by the Frankfurt School. Though some proponents of those ideas claim that the implication of "it's going to end soon" was not present when the Frankfurt School used it.

>>12148586
so "late capitalism" is like the rapture for marxists

>>12148588
It's gonna happen aaaaany minute now

>>12148181
Can I not escape the niggerspeak even on this board

>>12148167
Christopher Butler's short introductions to both modernism and postmodernism, are what you're looking for.

>>12148167
Michel Clouscard did it first and did it better.

>>12148569
The depths of your ignorance really are incredible. My argument was that capitalism hasn't gone far enough in its project of absolute deterritorialisation, how does that make me a leftist? Your strawman of "muh leftist rhetoric" is useless here

>the opposite of late stage capitalism is also late stage capitalism
All you're doing here is showing your poor reading comprehension. My point was that I agree with your suggestion that humanist interventions (political activism, regulation, policy-making, lobbies, etc.) can slow capital's trajectory towards dissipation, but these are not properties which define the contemporary economic climate. They are the futile (social) attempts to resist the growing autonomy of the market, the increasingly diminished modes of control which humanity has over its own economic destiny. This is why it is "late" capitalism– because the people have already missed the opportunity to prevent either a total economic collapse, or the evolution of a completely new system (depending on your point of view).

>>12148845
>the growing autonomy of the market, the increasingly diminished modes of control which humanity has over its own economic destiny.

Oh look another "capitalism has a mind of its own and is definitely not simply working in the interests of the globalist jews making decisions about how it functions on a daily basis" utter retard.

>>12148871
One of the greatest scams of all time is the ruling
class convincing these wageslaves that they have any meaning in the grand scheme of things beyond producing more wealth for the already wealthy.

But my (((FREE))) market!

>>12148922
We have a choice, in that we can toss these fucking jews out for the 300th time and incentivize "capital" to work in the interests of whites instead of them. I could wipe out the $21 trillion failed jewish debt scam and make "capitalism" create a million mud race deportation squad jobs tomorrow, then reorganize corporations to nationalize their business models and revamp our broken cities into clean and safe organic only whitopias. There is not one flavor of capitalism because capitalism is merely a tool of whoever is in charge. And it is not the problem, the jews in charge are the problem.

>>12148553
>>12148845
I was the original person but you have misunderstood me. I was saying that the culture of de/low regulation and free markets is over. This was how it was in the 80s but it ended in 2008 and there are very few proponents of it, particularly outside of the US. By your definition, I think we are already in the early phases of what comes after “late-stage capitalism”.

>>12148167
anyone else see those shoes as hoods?

>>12148871
>simply working in the interests of the globalist jews
>simply
your basic problem right here. Anti-semitic conspiracy theories have always been low-hanging fruit for the more intellectually challenged among the left, because its very easy to look at the correlate between judaism and economic literacy and jump to the conclusion that jews run the world at the expense of all others. Problem is you end up losing the simplicity of "Jews did it!" in favour of absurdly complex and paranoiac nonsense in order to justify the "globalist master plan" of your scapegoat, its a ridiculous house of cards that no one in their right mind would believe.

>>12149001
>incentivize capital to work in the interests of whites
the naivety of ethno-nationalism is adorable.

>>12149245
>Anti-semitic conspiracy theories

There's your basic problem right here. There's no conspiracy. Jewish control of banking and western institutions generally is a well-documented fact.

>jews run the world

This is how you know this poster is a jew. When little jews are trying to deflect attention away from big jews they use this strawman.

Sorry, but you don't belong on /lit/ and will not convince anyone here with these tired and weak jewish arguments. The facts are in and your next expulsion is on the way. There's nothing you can do to stop that besides making aliya.

>>12149282
>Jewish control of banking and western institutions generally is a well-documented fact
but the fact is that jewish people hold positions of power, not that there is a collective effort amongst powerful jews to exploit all non-jews. This is where delusion and conspiracies make the inductive leap for you.

Do they hold a number of important positions? sure. Do they abuse their power? Of course they do, in the same way that any person with power does, regardless of their race. Do jews hold absolute power in these spheres? Certainly not, and even though you proclaim there are plenty of "well-documented facts" to justify your argument, you haven't provided a shred of evidence to prove it.

>This is how you know this poster is a jew
And this is how you know your argument is complete bogus. Too stupid to argue with any recourse to logic? Simply accuse your opponent of being part of the institution or group you're criticising, rather than challenging the actual ideas on the table.

>The facts are in
so you keep saying, but until you actually present these facts they most certainly are not "in".

>>12149001
Capitalism is what motivated the Anglo-Saxon elite to turn their ethnostates into mutt hives in the first place

>>12149353
Notice how in one post I was able to determine that this poster was a jew. One post. Look at the language and the rhetoric. The jew is a brainwashed tribal agent, not a creative individual thinker, to whom truth is centered around doing what's best for jews, and he will repeat always the same talking points in defense of jews.

But poster, jews are not welcome here so make that your last post. You need to go.

>>12149393
No, jews are running the institutions in western countries. They have instilled in western elites a modern jewish ideology in the form of a modernized version of Christianity that leads them to promote jewish interests, but that would never have occurred without jews and jewish influence.

>>12149549
lmao
you're delusional
I hope this is an elaborate exercise in writing

>>12148845
>They are the futile (social) attempts to resist the growing autonomy of the market, the increasingly diminished modes of control which humanity has over its own economic destiny.

Sounds pretty bleak. If that's the case, why do Commies think that it is fated for their failed economic system to take over from "late stage capitalism" and win instead of the elites just genociding every useless eater after they no longer need them to function anymore?

>>12149586
We will accept your weak parting jab as long as you now make your exit. Don't return to /lit/, jews are not welcome here.

>>12148188
Late-stage capitalism is the leftist newspeak term for corporatism. What they should be saying/are implying is a plutocracy governed by corporate oligarchs, which is essentially the direction we're headed.

>>12149353
#BTFO
/pol/tards are actually retarded, sadly. They have no evidence to prove a orchastrated effort and rely on correlation (“look, this article’s author is named Goldstein”) as if such arguments proved anything in any other sphere of knowledge.

>>12149683
I ask, if jews were in fact orchestrating an the destruction or abuse of non-jews why would they make their identities so obvious? How do you justify the notion of a global elite who have somehow managed to have absolute control of the world’s institutions and governments, yet they can’t manage to keep their identities hidden and also their “plans” discoverable by teenagers browsing an anime forum? Give me a break. This is probably verifiable psychosis. I would love to organize an experiment to determine whether such people show signs of underlying mental illness.

>>12149588
>why do Commies think that it is fated for their failed economic system to take over from "late stage capitalism" and win instead of the elites just genociding every useless eater after they no longer need them to function anymore?
The dialectic of history is conceived of by marxists solely in terms of class struggle, so the point at which communism becomes reality is understood as the end of history. This is why a leftist with even a modicum of self-awareness will tell you why any implementation of communism before that point is destined to fail. The trouble with this is that the end of capitalism and the end of history are essentially synonymous, and since the former is quite impossible to envision, the latter is likewise just as much of a pipe dream.

Zizek and Fisher are his spiritual successors, Baudrillard is worthwhile too but he is a predecessor more than anything

>>12149720

>>12149549
>not welcome here
you're mistaking /lit/ with your containment board.

>>12149549
this is a 4channel board now sweaty, please go back to 4chan

>>12149698
>I would love to organize an experiment to determine whether such people show signs of underlying mental illness.
I mean, gullibility isn't generally thought of as mental illness, they're just dum-dums.

>>12149549
>>12149962
He was fucking right...
Goddammit every fucking time

>>12148230
That’s insulting to ted

>>12149698
>why would they make their identities so obvious?
Huh? Kikes have historically been asked to identify themselves, and in Germany originally wore yellow stars to distinguish between themselves, because they use crypsis as a strategy to gain power. Nothing frightens a jew more than being called out as one, and it's only "obvious" now because we have the internet and can see the extent of their infestation in our institutions.

>verifiable psychosis
^Jewish psychopathologizing of goyim as explained in the CofC, right here.

>>12149645
STFU you absolute retard

>>12148768
This is how people on the internet talk in 2018. blacks only adopted it.

>>12149549
>Intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humor

>>12148212
>>12148223
>>12148230
>>12148341
>>12148586
ALL of you are wrong and don’t know shit. On page 3 of Postmodernism Jameson explicitly says he is taking the term ‘late capitalism’ directly from the book of the same name by Ernest Mandel.

In Late Capitalism (published originally in German in 1972) Mandel says his goal is to explain what has changed about capitalism during the ‘post-war boom’, while also demonstrating that the fundamental ‘laws of motion’ as revealed by Marx still hold true. While he did believe a prosperous period was ending, there was no indication that he seemed to think that capitalism was going to collapse any time soon, and he lays out a number of ‘countervailing tendencies’ which would allow the economy to persist in a bad way for a long time.

I have both books in front of me so if anybody wants screen shots of particular passages or tables of contents I can provide.

>>12151164

I am none of those posters but would like said screens for the purpose of enticing further reading

>>12151174
Table of contents

>>12151334
Okay, the last one loaded 90 degrees ccw, so I tried rotating this one 90 degree the other way, so fingers crossed.

>>12148167
As people have mentioned, Mark Fisher is has directly developed Jameson’s thought. “What is Hauntology?” is a great example. Otherwise, Ghosts of My Life and of course Capitalist Realism are both essential.

Zizek ought to be mentioned. Living in End Times is worth looking at.

If you are alright with something a bit older, Marc Auge’s ‘Non-Places: Introduction to an Anthropology of Supermodernity‘ introduces concepts which are similar.

Castells’ Information Age trilogy from the 90s is probably also of interest.

David Harvey’s Condition of Postmodernity is a great companion to Jameson.

>>12151036
Zoomer scum get out

>>12151380
thanks, it went in it's da jooos direction quickly

>>12152649
Jews are an essential component of understanding both modernism and postmodernism.

>>12151164
Did you miss the part where I explained that the term was already a thing before WW2? Why do you think the definitions used in books written in 1972 and 1991 are somehow the gold standard for defining the term?

>>12151380
>>12152649
just learn french and read Clouscard...

>>12154237
yes but not in the poltad way.

>>12154762
Some of you people are obsessed with pol. Total ignorance, as if the jewish problem suddenly sprung from there in 2014 and hasn't been present and documented for millennia.

>>12154270
Well firstly bc this post is asking specifically about that 1991 book. And bc the sense in which Sombart used it is not the same as how Mandel used it.

His ‘late capitalism’ begins in 1914, while Mandel’s does in 1945.

The big thing is that Sombart’s book on the history of capitalism has never been translated into English and it’s not through him that we get the English language term. It’s Mandel’s book (translated in 1974) which popularized the term in English, and it’s specifically this which Jameson cites as why he’s using the term.

Ultimately they get the pride of place because when random internet people use the term ‘late capitalism’ they are talking about how the economy and culture got all fucked in the postwar era, not changes in the relative power of industrial capital versus financial capital which Sombart, Lenin, Bukhrin and others were talking about.


Also while Mandel is now all but forgotten outside Marxist circles, Jameson still is the most important living American literary theorist. Postmodernism has ~19,000 citations alone, and it’s the main vector by which the term ‘late capitalism’ continues to exist.

>>12154872
go back to your containment site

>>12154936
The post we were replying to:
>>late-stage capitalism
>I hate this meme term as it implies that capitalism is going to end soon and that it won't drastically change before it does. Can anyone tell me its origins?

>>12154984
Sombart isn’t the reason why we say ‘late capitalism’. Mandel came to the term independently

>>12154984
Jameson says in the introduction that 'late capitalism' originated with the Frankfurt School.

>>12155326
*the term, that is.

>>12155326
So he's wrong

>>12155179
That would imply the guy was completely unaware of the history of the term. It's more likely an existing term was purposed for dramatic effect.

Jameson is a blowhard and his conclusions are wrong.

>>12148188
tl;dr by "late" they originally meant "recent" but angsty commies also like that it implies this state of affairs will end soon

even just the word capitalism is a bit of a commie meme

>>12157125
>even just the word capitalism is a bit of a commie meme

It definitely is. But the ironic thing is that jews created this anti-capitalism agenda in the 1800s and pushed it for a century because they were not in charge of it and wanted to pit the proles against their own elite so that they would be; and now that jews are in charge and the neoliberal/capitalist system is an extension of jewery, jews are singing the opposite tune.

Because it was never about capitalism, it was about jewish power. It is beyond pathetic to see clueless whites still clamoring that the problem is capitalism and citing the arguments of dead commie kikes, while their descendants, the new jew bourgeoisie, laugh in their face and tell them white privilege and the patriarchy are the problem.

There is no excuse for whites to be on the left anymore.

>>12151174

>>12157581
anything can be a commodity

>>12154872
can you fuck off?

>>12148167
Truly a phenomenal and highly prescient book. It's up to us to carry the torch /lit/. I'm not joking about this. There's a dearth of writers continuing Jameson's legacy, perhaps because of the somewhat unpopular associations with Marx.

>>12157613
>Truly a phenomenal and highly prescient book.
It's really not. It's exhaustively vacant and misses the point. I'd read parts before, had it on deck as this thread came up, and am 80 pages in now. I feel bad for Jameson. He put in a lot of work and was as comprehensive as he could be, but his own Marxism blinds him to reality. I'll finish it in a couple days and will probably find some good tid bits here and there, but don't see my perspective changing too much as I see the trajectory.

100 pages in, will see if I can bump this till I'm finished (420 total). Odds?

>>12148167
McCarthy's The Road ...

Don't believe me? I wrote an essay on it.