/lit/ - Literature

read gaddis. practice transcribing things overheard

>>12034688
Because you don’t go outside enough to know what nature dialogues sound like

>>12034695
im writing about a woman cop who comes out of the locker room and the chief stops her and mentions something about the weather. in this situation i feel like the female cop is supposed to say something reddit-y and witty but that was hard to come up with and a few seconds later i make a joke about the chief of police says not to be late to work again. the irony is there is a snow storm outside

>>12034750
What does the cheif say, and what is their relationship

>>12034788
oh nothing, its just some exchange that leads into her day of work

Just write down something and move on. It doesn't have to be amazing at first. Get a general thing down and return to it later, when you got more focus and context of that situation.

>>12034750
Just make super sarcastic and keep it short.

>>12034750
why are you writing about a woman cop and not a manly man?

>>12034750
What?

Why did you think all that arbitrary shit out to guide your dialogue instead of just writing the lines first?

>>12034986
maybe thats just the way i think

>>12035011
anyways i made this thread seeing if anyone could relate not specifically asking for someone to write the lines down plainly for me. some useful tips none the less

>>12034688
Because you haven't talked to anyone in your life. Go get some sunlight you turbo-autist

WRITING DIALOGUE IS DIFFICULT ONLY WHEN ONE ATTEMPTS TO IMITATE SPEECH; IT IS FUTILE, DISHONEST, COMMUNICATIONALLY SPURIOUS, AND AESTHETICALLY FALSE, TO ATTEMPT TO REPRODUCE THE ACTION OF A MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION THROUGH ANOTHER MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION.

>>12035517
Jesus anon, calm down. Then how should one write dialogue?

>>12035517

Please expand on this thought, I find it interesting. But if you can, avoid caps lock.

>>12035709

>>12035517
t. can't write good dialogue

Just because the meaning is obscured through the same personal lens the characters are burdened with doesn't mean it loses meaning. You probably use characters as mouthpieces and believe Thatcher was a decent prime minister.

>>12034688
You're speaking when you should be listening.

>>12035517
>COMMUNICATIONALLY SPURIOUS

fucking yikes

>>12035517
Ow! Anon. Please use your indoor voice.

>>12034750
>That weather is crazy today
B: Weather?
>Yes the snowstorm that is happening. I hope that the teachers and children at St Martha’s School are all right
A: St Martha’s?
>Yes it’s the local school where the mysterious murders happened. Let me mark it on your map
*St Martha’s has been marked on your map*

>>12036306

>>12036306

>>12036306
On my map?

>>12036553
can you stop posting this image unless you change "your" to "you're"

R8 this short dialogue I wrote part of an Elder Scrolls fanfiction (fuck you I have autism and can't play a character without writing a 30 pages long background story)

He grabbed a short dagger and handed it to me, holding it by the blade.
“If you only need to defend yourself, you want something like this, it's light, easy to conceal, and anybody can stick a pointy blade in a ruffian with bad intentions.”
“How did you know?” I asked, unable to hide my surprise.
“What else could a frail looking lass like you want? You visibly can't hold a sword, I don't carry staves and people on errands don't spend so much time fingering my wares with their eyes.” he explained in an amused tone. He was right of course, but I never expected a simple merchant to make such smart deductions.
“And how much is it?” I inquired while opening my bag of coins, wondering if I had enough.
“Usually I would sell it for ten septims, but I am in a good mood today, and you are not too hard on the eyes, so I'll let you have it for seven.”
Seven was an amount I could afford. I took the coins and placed them on the wooden table, the man pocketed them and then handed me the dagger.
“Pleasure doing business with you lass.”
“Thank you sera, good day.” I said with a soft smile

I can't write.

>>12037044
go fuck you'reself grammarnigger

Bump once more

Because you probably rarely speak to people irl you autistic shut in incel

bump

>>12037072
i lol'd.
I can totally see how this is an internal mono-dialog.
Both characters are you, but the one asking the simple questions is your autistic self with your typical lack of any personality, and the one answering questions is the best you can do to imagine how somoene else might see things but really you have to learn how to turn your autistic self into a full-functioning character with points of views of his own.
this might require some uncomfortable truths, some soul-searching and self- reflection.

>>12034750
WTF does even reddity mean in this context?
Something you wouldn't say or like? We're not a monolith fucknut.
I fucking HATE when people do this...

You people think too much. Most of Dosty's and Tolsty's dialogues are cringy as shit, incredibly overblown and melodramatic and it's still good as fuck. Nobody will care about some robot-like lines if in the grand scheme of things you do something good.

>>12038985
Not him but
Glib, clever-clever, self-satisfied and cutesy. The overwritten over caffeinated one-liner. I think that's what 'reddity' means. I know, it's fucking retarded.

>>12038962
Other guy. This is one of my big worries when I write; that both sides of the conversation sound like the same person, or even worse, like me. Ive been trying to work on giving both sides visible characterization, but then I start to worry Im pushing it too far. Like the pious medieval bishop and progressive peasant woman might end up sounding like a r/atheism cartoon character and someone who's actually from the 21st century.

>>12034750
As an exercise, write a script of these two going back and forth with no prose whatsoever, just dialogue and any important actions they take. Pick out what feels natural and flows well.
Also, get out and listen to conversations. Look at how dialogue you've enjoyed from others is structured.

>>12034695
spbp

>>12035517
I agree and disagree.
Writing should seek to cut away what's meaningless and show what's meaningful. Written dialogue shouldn't mirror real dialogue full of ums and likes and stutters.
On the other hand, dialogue should reflect the setting. If the setting is modern, current day, people speaking like aristocrats at Oxford in the 1800s will seem pretentious or out of place. But a story about aristocrats at Oxford should reflect that setting.

>>12034688
this young man's frustrations are proving Samuel Beckett is a hack! https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Waiting-for-Godot.pdf

>>12039045
im just responding off my own post to make it make sense, but you should like >>12034688
write out one of their lines now and then wait for a while and then go back to it later. You can respond with a clear mind, having already cleaned your head of what you've written prior. Future playwright on deck boyz! He'z iz wroitin!

I think a big problem young writers have now is an overreliance and comfort with movies and TV shows.
We experience stories and dialogue through this medium so much; it's profoundly impacted the way young people write.
I've noticed
>need to control every visual aspect of a scene
>over description, lack of subtlety
>in those impacted by video games and/or stories large in scope and stakes but low in personal involvement
>desire for dialogue that's snappy, witty, back and forth banter

Written dialogue should always seek to do two things at once: advance the plot, and at least one other story function (establishing tone, developing character, etc.). The point of dialogue shouldn't be to entertain, or show your wit, or elicit a chuckle, like it would in visual media.

Reading a lot of dialogue and back and forth banter gets old. Line after line of dialogue starts to feel like a script, or is sometimes unclear (since they stop putting 'x said' because it's getting repetitive).
Focus on making dialogue thats meaningful and always does more than one thing. Unless it's a major aspect of the story, leave the witty banter to sitcoms and action movies.

>>12039072
I see what you mean, I'm reading Lord Montague for a play and I realized that the length at which characters were portrayed. It's entertaining writing, but it serves a point to advance the story. When Lady Montague asks Benvolio were Romeo is because there was a quarrel prior. Benvolio responds explaining Romeo's isolation and so there is further explanation of how his isolation affects Romeo from Lord Montague. Then the story evolves into Benvolio seeking a cause for and to help Romeo overcome his depressive tendencies.

Anyway, the point is that dialogue should explain the story further and not hinder like it does in creative writing where two characters don't talk. Even if you have a witty remark, you need to glide back into the topic at hand.

Dialog is the easiest part. Just type out what two people say to each other.
>"Dan, fuck you."
>"Why?"
>"Because you're a dumb person."
>"Well, that is rude."
EZPZ

>>12034688
It's not. Get in your characters' heads, think like they think.
> but that sounds so haaaard!
That's probably because your'e stupid.

>>12039102
Take pity on him my son for he has never taken a theatre class in his life.

>>12039111
>"Theatre class is nothing but a bunch of shlock." Fred shifted in his seat, like he was getting ready to fight Mark.
>"I think it's been incredibly helpful, it really got me in touch with that side of me. Have *you* ever taken one?"
>"Yes, I work with actors, remember? No amount of classes or meditation will make a shit actor, not shit. You either have it or you don't. Sorry, buddy."

>>12034688
Because you're trained to write dialogue like TV, not like a book. Read books and copy what they do, it's not that hard.

"Daddy, why does an airplane need a gigantic uncut cock and massive grapefruit sized balls?"
"Well Timothy," his glasses, pipe smoking father sighed, "humanity strayed from God's light long ago. What you see before you now is the product of staggering through the darkness for so long."

>>12034688
I haven't been on this board in a while and I came just to ask, "how do you write good dialogue if your only exposure to it comes from movies and television?" because apart from talking to customers at my job I have no genuine social interaction

>>12039495
Well, first you try and find a friend, anyone you used to talk to before you isolated yourself. Then you talk to them. If you do not have any friends, then first figure out what your hobby is, or, find a hobby, then search online for social meet ups about that hobby, go to said meet up, then you talk to them.

>>12039500
Most of my hobbies are enjoyed by the kind of people that frequent reddit and/or tumblr, I think that would be a bad place to start

>>12039524
I mean in person. Like find a meet up for book club, or jogging, or foodies, or painting miniatures, or card games, or art appreciation or fucking literally anything people do in which there would be a physical place where they congregate and discuss the things they like.

>>12037072
>I can't write.
This was better than 99% of content in /lit/ critique threads.

>>12039015
ignore that guy, hes a pseud. If someone posted an inconspicuous excerpt from a classic with the same prompt he'd say the exact same opaque shit

what you posted is unironically decent. It kept my attention and I felt the image you were trying to convey transmitted succesfully

>>12038991
this -- dont overthink dialog, theres no "soul searching" required beyond bettering ones writing through the ordinary means, ie reading good books.

Dialog doesnt need to be "real". And its not that necessary either, desu. If you feel youre forcing yourself to write a self-described reddity, stiff, robotic interaction, theres a good chance its a totally superfluous scene and youre doing what you think Stephen King would do rather than what you feel is right. The dialogue could be reduced to a sentence describing what happened if not entirely cut out

Dialogue is as hard as knowing what your characters know and feel. This only becomes complex when you have characters out of your knowledge range. So long as you know your characters they should more or less tell you what they are saying, not the other way around.

>>12034688
Except that it isnt and only an actual amateur would truly struggle with getting dialogue out at all

While there is an obvious difference in dialogue and "good" dialogue that really sticks out like in a Tarantino film, dialogue itself should never be difficult because its supposed to be borne out of what the conflict/ what the character wants. If youre "coming up with things to say" for the character then youve already lost and writing dogshit

>>12038985
Maybe you just don't have a deep understanding of our culture.

>>12038985
>Something you wouldn't say or like?
That's not what reddit means, dumbshit.

>>12034688
Use it very sparsely and don't worry about if it's easy to follow. Most conversation, when transcribed, sounds like a jumbled mess. Even educated people, unless they are delivering some kind of lecture or speech, don't sound like a Socratic dialogue.

Personally I always love a mix of slivers of broken dialogue between average people punctuated by long tracts of very erudite dialogue delivered by a single character as a monograph on a given topic.

>>12040112
>only an actual amateur
This. Newfags don't realize that most people here are published authors or professional writers of some other kind and believe that their beginner issues will resonate with the board at large. They should, of course, shut up and lurk more.

Think of a version of them saying exactly what they mean, then think of how you would say it and mix them in a ratio appropriate to how open your character is.

>>12034750
>the irony is there is a snow storm outside
What? How would that be ironic?

>>12035517
At least this fuckboy is correct for once.

>>12037072
learn proper punctuation