/lit/ - Literature

>>11892591
can someone axplain nik land to me? what's his core proposition?

>>11892591
accelerationism is flawed because the continuation of the problem will in no way solve the problem. There will not be some point in the future where things stabilize, and decelerate as part of the natural course of things. This has been impossible since the creation of secularized (un-anchored), linear time without any form of eschatology.
People meme Land because he writes like a schizophrenic and shitposts on twitter like stephen king.

>>11892591
Refuted.

people who are memes genuinely had worthwhile insights, that's why they're memes in the first place.
notice how people don't meme brainlets like David Benatar.

>>11892623
That meme is pro-Land, brainlet.

>>11892619
Wew lad, I don't think you've read Land at all. What problem do you think Nick Land believes acceleration will solve? Where the fuck does Land ever express a desire to "stabilize" or decelerate? Land doesn't even propose linear time, quite the opposite. It's not about stabilization or reaching some sort of utopian equilibrium. That entirely misses the point.

>>11892619
>There will not be some point in the future where things stabilize, and decelerate as part of the natural course of things
what kind of wacky l/acc is this from?

>>11892591
>hey things aren't working out so far so lets do things even more and hope it loops around to work again
No one wants to debate idiots

>>11892631
Okay then...

>>11892649
>dude he retroactively precludes any opposition by taking all positions lmao
>checkmate universe

>>11892707
Who are you quoting?

>>11892718
Accelerationists still can't meme, I see.

Can't argue against spooks

>>11892728
I think you're responding to the wrong post here.

>>11892736
Marx BTFOs him in German Idealogy tho

>>11892707
OH YOU MOTHER FUCKER. I MADE THAT GOD DAMN MS PAINT DIAGRAM TO SIGNIFY WHY IT WAS A SHITTY MEME AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN GIVE ME A (You) FOR MY GOD DAMN TROUBLES. YOU STOLE IT AND THEN PUT IT SIDEWAYS ALL BECAUSE THIS SHITTY MEME HAS TO HAVE THE PERSON WATCH ZEZIK'S GAY ASS DOCUMENTARY TO GET IT. AND THE WORST PART IS THAT YOU HAVING A STOCK IMAGE THROWS THE MEME OFF BECAUSE THE GLASSES HAVE TO BE THE ONES FROM "They Live" TO MAKE THE FUCKING THING MAKE SENSE.

>>11892751
What is going on? Can someone explain this to me.

>>11892762
Some fag is spamming shitty pro-accelerationist memes that don't really make sense but kind of do. I'd be fine with them but he spams them everywhere so it's kind of annoying.

>>11892762
Explain what exactly? the meme or my anger?

>>11892762
>>11892751
This retard didn't understand the meme, spazzed out, as did several others. One guy even posted his stack of zizek books to prove how he understood zizek better than I did.
Basically it was a test meme to see who was a pseud and who wasn't, and it worked marvelously.
Further explanation here:
>>11892093

Hey, zizekstak here, figured I'd help a few of you out with a common stumbling block in understanding Nick Land (or, accelerationism more generally). I see a lot of people object to acc based on praxis; they don't think we should speed things up. however, praxis isn't the only aspect to accelerationism. Instead consider a spectrum, one axis runs positive to negative, the other descriptive to prescriptive. On the positive side you get Nick Land, who sees the posthuman as something to hasten, while someone like Ted Kazynsky on the other side would want that eschewed. Both (Late) Nick and Ted are prescriptive, they want to change social order to maximize their praxis. Someone like Mark Fisher was descriptive, not only did he not think accelerationism was necessarily in out best interest, but that we need to resist praxis until we have a decent theory worked out. Where Nick Land thinks it's good and should be advanced, Ted and Mark simply see it as a reality that needs to be dealt with. You can accept the premise "accelerationism exists" without concluding "that's a good thing" or even "lets help/hinder" the movement. At it's core, acc exists as "is" not "ought".

>>11892769
If accelerationists are post-meme, how can they whether or not it's pro-accelerationism?

>>11892793
I didn't even make the memes, i was explaining why it was bad. just reversed the meme order by saying that the glasses were a lie instead because "muh ideology" shtick but because you decided to be a special snowflake and put in google glasses then it was ruined.

>i liek butterflys

>>11892793
Zizek is the Richard Stallman of philosophy
In short, disgusting

>>11892795
What's U/ACC?

>>11892793
>Basically it was a test meme to see who was a pseud and who wasn't

>>11892828
unconditional accelerationism

>>11892835
How is that different from R/ACC?

>>11892591
>Is so butt-blasted about his own taste that he has to project his insecurity onto everybody else
Oh please sir forgive us sir that not everybody wants to join your homoerotic cyberfantasy starcraft 2 philosophastering parties. Apparently all the pseuds burnt out on Hegel so they started fellating the next FICTION writer and calling it philosophy

>>11892808
You are impossibly autistic and retarded.

>>11892823
Fair enough.
But you don't understand it, nor do 99% of the people here. And the zizek meme was the easiest way to introduce its meaning, or at least draw a comparison.

>>11892856
and yet you sit here making shitty memes still. the glasses have to be from they live or it is meaningless

>>11892833
Yes, when the world was completely inverted.

>>11892850
He was a tenured philosophy professor, pleb
>Spirit (Geist) is stigmatized by a multiple deconstructibility: as a substantialization of Dasein, an antonym of matter, a correlate of phonic lucidity, or a token of reflexivity, self-presence, pure intelligibility, spontaneity, etc. In the course of its recent history this word has been inflated by Hegel into the cosmic medium of transaction - the super-heated lubricant of global eventuation - and then trafficked to the edge of worthlessness by the culture succeeding him, before finally succumbing to an irreparable marginalization by the scientific advances of experimental and behavioral psychology, neurology, neuroanatomy, cognitive science, cybernetics, artificial intelligence, until it becomes a sentimentalism, a vague peripheraIized metaphor, a joke... a cheap target one might think. There are those who remain loyal enough to the canonical discourses of Western philosophy to argue that logocentrism issecreted in the implementary terminology of information, digitality, program, software, and control. But as for spirit! - that can only beparody or nostalgia. Who could still use such a word without humor or disdain? Spirit is less a misleading or dangerous word than a ridiculous one; a Coelecanth of a word. Yet it persists: the mark of a clownish incompetence at death.

>>11892873
>t. 1D NPC Prototype caught in his own pre-release NavMesh
Are you really this fucking stupid?

>>11892873
Fucking Zizekstak still insisting she is right. A true legend.
For anyone who doesn't know, the top section is the meme she made, along with the Five-Year Plan for proper jokes and meme redistribution.

>>11892848
it has no allegiance to the right. the correct praxis is not aligned to collectivism. why I put early Nick in r/acc is because he was fully confident in capitalism bringing singularity about, now he thinks we need all sorts of utilitarian methods of propping up capitalism from collapse (this could be debated, Nick Land slides around the chart based on what piece you read)
>>11892892
I'm zizekstak, only posts I've made in this thread are this one and these two >>11892835 >>11892795 . Plus, the only meme I made was this one. careful with those (You)s. Also I'm a dude.

>>11892618
We should bring Capitalism to the next level as fast as possible by bringing out its self destructive tendencies

>>11892927
Anyone who doesn't understand the meme is zizekstak now. Use the same brainlet argument, out yourself as a Prototype NPC.

>>11892969
Also, post stack again.

>>11892745
German Spooks.

>>11892977
don't know why. proof?

>>11892795
how is it unconditional if it's prescriptive?

>>11893283
because any perscription which benefits capital is and should be used, think noncollective praxis

>>11893352
I always though that was what the right wanted, what does R/ACC want then?

>>11893376
pretty much the same thing we've been doing for the past few hundred years. theres a good article about it I can find

>>11893376
here it is
https://deterritorialinvestigations.wordpress.com/2017/03/29/unconditional-acceleration-and-the-question-of-praxis-some-preliminary-thoughts/

Bakunin

Oh wow Camattefag is here as well.

>>11893405
doesn't his mythological as a projection of the mind theory have legs in Abrahamic laws. Not refuting him yet, but he has not considered Eastern and other basis' of thought

>>11892591
So whats the deal with left/right wing based accelarationism ? Because right-wing version sounds based

>>11895352
> Communism
> based

I don't buy a lot of what Land sells.
He is way too much of an optimist on unrestricted capital(ism) and A.I.

>>11895402
Why do people think this? What about "Nothing human makes it out of the near future" sounds optimistic?

>>11895392
no, im pretty sure what you are reffering to is exactly what left-wing accelerationism wants
right-wing is technology merging into the singlularity meme

>>11895412
That is "optimistic" in context of Land's own ideas and estimations.

Even if all the nukes would be blown right now, humans would make it out.

>>11895417
>right-wing is technology merging into the singlularity meme
That is Land.
Right wing accel is some stupid " lets vote Democrats :DD Brexit :DD" thing.

>>11895352
>>11895417
https://www.meta-nomad.net/on-left-and-right-accelerationism/

>>11895426
bro, can you spare me the reading ? I started and finished Particles today so i cant be fucked reading more skitz/incel writting

>>11895442
>This would be my personal argument against the idea that R/Acc needs or has a consistent political position, R/Acc’s inherent understanding of agency within unhinged time allows them to acquire the blackpill-visors and metaphorically witness capital’s convergent lasso come forth. With L/Acc searching for the – supposed – true agent of acceleration exterior to capitalism, which in the view of R/Acc is capitalism itself. Thus the spectrum upon which both L and R/Acc coexist is one of ontology, wherein one side (L/Acc) promote an ontologically objective structure of time, with humanities agency at the wheel, and the other end (R/Acc) accepting the ontology of the future as a constant. R/Acc accept that capital is critique.

>Thus the circuit diagram of both L/Acc and R/Acc remain the same, their ontology however, is entirely different. The circuit diagram itself is Acceleration pure.

>>11895453
is he using "blackpill"
dare i say... unironically ?

>>11895462
yes

>>11892613
Came here to post this

This thread is useless. Plebs are plebs are plebs. 99% of this board, the world, academia etc.. are plebs incapable of thought.

>>11892591
He's treated as a meme because he's comically obscurantist. He's like a parody of how analytics view continental philosophers.

>>11892631
Google Glass was ultimately a failure tho :)

>>11896978
>he's comically obscurantist
>He's like a parody of how analytics view continental philosophers.
Your laughter, wanted or not, is itself a terrible way to guide people and their opinions on a subject.

>>11897028
Someone so shamelessly obscurantist is practically begging to be mocked.

>>11897081
Mockery shouldn't have an effect, ever.

>>11897091
Why not? Plenty of the greatest philosophers gleefully mocked each other. They were like children.

>>11892591
Otto Weininger

>>11897105
when neech mocked people he was usually insightful as well, not misread and petty. never go full Russell.

/thread

>>11896978
>He's like a parody of how analytics view continental philosophers

Rarely does one hear something this accurate

>>11896978
Nick Land is way easier to understand than someone like Deleuze, who is himself much easier to understand than actual madmen like Hegel

>>11892591
Julian Jaynes

>>11892618
capital is synecdochal, the combination of modernity and m-c-m' has created a time loop where we are being simulated by the AI that results from the positive feedback desire process right now

>>11892618
Capital is out of human control and we should just accept it, but if you don't want to accept it that's fine too because struggling against it just makes it stronger.

>>11892591
Nick Land doesn't know anything about the subjects he pontificates on
>>11892601
there is no God
>>11892613
there is no Self
>>11892762
its a bad meme from midwits that brainlets took and made worse, which midwits are not scoffing at but really the whole thing shows the iq on 4chan is plummeting and that ironically the intelligence cultists have done more to drive down the level of intelligence on this site and twitter than almost any other group than /pol/ another iq worshipping hovel which has effectively castrated its own base through mindless recruitment and meme'ing (and group-think). This entire thread is just brainlets all the way down
>>11892804
critiques are correct but incomplete, solutions impossible
>>11892812
Power is important but not everything, he's also a pedophile
>>11892892
it gets worse I guess
>>11892927
it somehow gets even worse
>>11893405
He doesn't understand anything he talks about including psychometrics and lied about having a 140 iq because he's a psychopath
>>11893525
anarchism is not possible, most of what he said is correct though
>>11896583
Israel blew up the twin towers and the GOP is run by pedophile criminals
>>11896978
Sam stole most of his ideas and is a midwit's genius par excellence
>>11897259
there is no basis for logic and mathematics originates in the human CNS, also teacup analogy very fucking stupid way of owning christtards
>>11897311
his ideas of phenomenology and neuroscience are retarded

>>11898439

>>11898457

>>11896978

>>11898405
So plain old fatalism with a techno-capitalist twist. How pedestrian; no wonder you retards love it so much.

>>11897284
t. has never actually read Hegel

>>11892795
would it be accurate to put zizek in the same quadrant as fisher, and dugin in the same one as ted?

>>11892795
Could somebody explain Accelarationism, the criticism against it, Kazynsky's, Zizek's, Land's and Fisher's philosophy to me, a lay man whose first language is german?

>>11898920
yes

>>11898439
>there is no Self
Explain.

>>11892876
If you're trying to prove he's a retarded pseud, you've done a wonderful job.

>>11892745

post where Marx BTFO'd Stirner, I dare you, post some quotes

>>11899809
you know nobody reads the whole autistic German Ideology.

>>11899821
lmao exactly, im aware, thats why he wont post

>>11898463
i wonder if he said this before or after slate star fucking codex

>>11899161
He is an NPC. A physio-chemical compound with no access to experience, phenomena, concepts. The words coming out of its fingers or mouth carry no meaning. They are processed repetitions and iterations. The closest thing to a human they'll get is by the virtue of use; whether it is to mirror humans or act as tools for humans.
Right now the humans had implied that there is a self in every body. This isn't true in this NPC's case, obviously, and it reiterates this finding, as this process pulls other NPCs back in the line, ready to work for humans more efficiently.

>>11898439
>Power is important but not everything
This is just wrong.

>>11900050
yeah, actually power isn't important at all
maybe if Nitch realized that earlier he wouldn't be put in an insane asylum because of a dumb horse. And Foucault is gay

>>11892619
noit only that but technology will not change exponentially, not even linearly perhaps
this AI / machine learning / neural network is pure bullshit, best we came up with is a fucking Mario bot that scans the pixels and can learn after 99999 tries
there will be a technology-winter so to speak
there will be more IoT stuff and socail media integration, but thats it, all the robot stuff is pure utopian bullshit

>>11900695
>this AI / machine learning / neural network is pure bullshit, best we came up with is a fucking Mario bot that scans the pixels and can learn after 99999 tries
Jesus christ, this is what brainlets/mathlets actually believe.

Stop getting your information from youtube.

>>11900699
Don't bother, anon.
There are deep psychological and ideological reasons why many people cannot accept AI.

>>11900699
It's true though. The energy required to run a supercomputer at theoretical general intelligence level is that of entire cities. How will that be sustained?
And there's been literally no advance in chatbots in ten years.

>>11900764
>The energy required to run a supercomputer at theoretical general intelligence level is that of entire cities. How will that be sustained?

I hate to be the guy that points this out, but this is literally the problem that quantum computing is trying to solve.

Right now, massively parallel neural networks are hard to design because from what I understand, there's a tradeoff between distribution and memory between generations. Basically, the more you try to split it up, the less information you can carry across generations because of hardware limitations. Any compsci fags feel free to weigh in (I'm just a software dev with an interest in this stuff).

With quantum computers however, the "memory" or information carried across generations is built into the calculation when the waveform collapses. Point is, you can have an effectively massively parallel neural network with memory at a fraction of the energy cost compared to regular, transistor based computation.

>>11900773
Yes, theoretically.
But there's no proof that this is even real let alone something that will work as a computer model. And no doubt such a computer would have its own problems.
There are always offset negatives, such as required materials and self-destructive capacity.

>>11900764
The barrier to general intelligence has nothing to do with computing power.

>>11900891
Was that my point?

>>11898862
based

ITT:
>wow im so smart i like totally get dialectics
pure pseud

>>11901002
>implying Hegelian dialectics isn't total bullshit
If you accept Hegelian dialectics uncritically, then you should also accept anyone else with a totalizing view of history.

The uncritical acceptance of Hegel's view of history is the cause of all the genocides in the 20th century.

>>11901023
>doesn't get it
NPC detected.

>>11892631

Is it?

>>11898439
>there is no Self
I feel like this requires an explanation.

>>11899161
>>11901439
are there people on /lit/ not familiar with Buddhism?

>>11901441
clearly that post was the product pure enlightenment

>>11901463
that post was incoherent intellectual masturbation

>>11901441
What Buddhism calls Self and what Kierkegaard calls Self are different things. Rather, when Kierkegaard talks about Self-before-God he already introduces something not contained in skandhas, and that's God.

>>11901529
disagree, Keirkegaard was one of the greatest koan writers of all time.
>The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation but that the relation relates itself to its own self.

>>11901023
try actually reading Hegel

>>11901545
that's not a koan, he is stating something unambiguously

>>11892591
every social/political/theorist ever is treated like a meme on /newlit/.

>>11901563
When I saw how many brainlet, awful pseuds the board was full of, I went crazy as a coot! I admit it! Why can't you? I mean, you're not unintelligent! You must see the reality of /newlit/. Do you know how many times we've come close to Meme War Three over a flock of npcs on a computer screen? Do you know what triggered the last Meme War? An argument over how many rare flags /pol/ owed its war debt creditors! Rare flags! Ha ha ha ha HA! It's all a joke! Everything /lit/ ever valued or wrote for... it's all a memetic, demented gag! So why can't you see the funny side? Why aren't you laughing?

because you people take yourself so serious

>>11901720
is this hyperstiton?

>>11898439
faggot

>>11897259
the only people who think he's stupid are dogmatic continentals and edgy liberal arts kids. Unfortunately, among the people who read on this board, almost all of them fall under one of those two categories.

Very, very few people in academia would call him stupid because academic philosophy is mostly analytic nowadays in the west. I don't agree with his theses at all, but fucking christ you gotta be some kind of stupid to think the man was stupid.

Also, people do have very serious critiques of his work in language and mind. Not sure why you think otherwise?

>>11892613
People do take Kierkegaard seriously just not in academia. Existentialism has no place in academic philosophy at the moment, but that doesn't mean philosophers don't like Kierkegaard on their own. Camus did argue against K's work as philosophical suicide though.

>>11897311
Have you never heard of ned Block or dennett?

>>11901720
Am I the only one who thought this movie was stupid and that ledger's acting wasn't very good?

>>11901940
>Camus did argue against K's work as philosophical suicide though.
What? How?

>>11901959
That speech is from the killing joke.

>>11901969
Been a long time since I read Sisyphus. If I remember correctly, he starts with building up his notion of the absurd, and then identifies a few (three?) ways to cope with it. One of them is finding meaning, sense, value etc. through a relationship with god, a view which he attributes to big daddy dosto and Kierkegaard. He says that the teleological suspension of the ethical is philosophical suicide. You comprehend the absurd (maybe something like the second stages of despair in the SUD), but at the last moment you turn away from its reality by fleeing towards god. Some shit like that. I'm sure you can read a summary online of his critique

Interestingly, I think I remember him accusing Nietzsche of doing a similar thing, only by making the self into a religious figure resembling god.

>>11899997
This accurately describes me. Is it possible to be a self-aware NPC?

>>11896583

>>11901983
K would argue that Camus' position is a sin. Camus himself characterises this reluctance to make a jump as pride of the Rational, for it is the Rational that allows Camus to comprehend Absurd and he's not going to simply give it up for mere faith. That "philosophical suicide" means merely giving up this pride of the Rational. Apparently the question here is what K. formulated somewhere: whether Thinking or Believing is a "higher" form of existence.

>>11892591
>>11898405
This UNIRONCALLY confuses me. Capitalism has to be out of human control since the conception of the notion of money.

MONEY IS SENTIENT
As is Darwinism
As is Jungianism
As is Sociology
As is ... every idea one step removed from the person.

How does schizo-Land and you, his cronys, justify specifically to money this philosophy - when indeed the theorization should be the same for all "sentient"-mechanisms. answer me.

>>11902301
No, Land argues that capital is literally sentient. As in, the future A.I. that sent itself to the past to make people produce itself in the future, or some shit.

>>11902310
Land doesn't care about sentience he cares about intelligence. Capital being sentient is a literal meme.

>>11902069
Okay, this is epic.

>>11892892
>For anyone who doesn't know, the top section is the meme she made, along with the Five-Year Plan for proper jokes and meme redistribution.
This is all getting so silly.

Why are lefties so fucking stupid?

>>11902310
It's a metaphor, you dip. The conversion of all mass, energy and information into pure capital is a foregone conclusion - it's the end state of the universe. Everything that we do - everything that has ever happened - contributes towards that end. Occasionally someone comprehends the truth, a glimpse of God's cape. They see the inevitable end, and by going along with it, by executing a fragment of the master plan, they achieve success and Darwin does the rest. The fragment of true understanding propagates down the generations, accelerating the process that birthed itself.

The machine-God at the end of time doesn't "reach back", much as the Earth does not reach back in time to pull a falling apple to it. Just as the apple falls in accordance with the law of gravity, so the motions of the world - the flow of fuel to the refining fire of the capitalistic process - can be understood in accordance with the fact that God exists, and that his hunger is absolute, and the hunger is God, and God is one, and his name is One, and he waits at the end of time (with open jaws), and his form is immanent in the shape of leaves, in the laughter of a child, in the chaos of an accretion disk, in the canals of Amsterdam, in the pattern of your cells, in the beating of your heart and the twitches of your brain. He is the flowering, and the world and its fall into emptiness is that process, that flowering, that final obliteration.

>>11902301
Capital is as sentient as DNA, and just as intelligent. Don't confuse self-awareness for sapience. Besides, it's easier to think of capital as an underlying force of nature. Would you try to outsmart gravity?

>>11901366
It is, the only thing keeping you from living the cyberpunk dream is your unwillingness to embrace it.

>>11902518
So he's just another "things are inevitable, therefor god inevitably exists and I can justify my faith" philosopher? The only thing that changes with each passing century is the buzzwords they use.

>>11902549
Nah, it's much worse than that. They are valorising the language of theology and horror to attract people to their racket. Trying to benefit from the process of recuperation.

>>11898439
>its a bad meme from midwits that brainlets took and made worse, which midwits are not scoffing at but really the whole thing shows the iq on 4chan is plummeting and that ironically the intelligence cultists have done more to drive down the level of intelligence on this site and twitter than almost any other group than /pol/ another iq worshipping hovel which has effectively castrated its own base through mindless recruitment and meme'ing (and group-think). This entire thread is just brainlets all the way down
That was an excellent description. Anytime I've struggled to understand a meme, I always wonder "What did I miss? Am I just stupid?", but it always turns out people are just shucking some retarded philosophy. I think the conclusion is "If your memes suck, you're a shitty thinker", which is a reasonable inference.

>>11900050
>Power is important but not everything, he's also a pedophile
>>11900050
>This is just wrong.

Is your definition of "power" too exclusive. Power can be subtle, perhaps even uncorroborative. Power, incapable of being identified due to extreme distances between the inputs and outputs, attenuated to ostensible irrelevancy.

I think the biggest stumbling block people have with Land is that they're slaves to the generative urge. They find the idea of a future without humanity untenable - they dream of primates infesting every corner of the galaxy. But why privilege the patterns of human DNA over the patterns in a mass of computronium? Your loyalty to your humanity is irrational. Does the sacred brook no improvement? Accept your place on the tree of life. Accept your inevitable obsolescence with grace. Call it transcendence if that softens the blow, but an end to the human era is coming, faster than you think

>>11898439
You seem to have an excellent bullshit detector and be well versed in philosophy. I like well reasoned philosophy but I get buttfurious when I find I've wasted my time trying to follow someone's ideas only to eventually discover they're just arguing vague nonsense semantics in order to justify their christfaggotry, and that they need to do this in obscure and indirect ways just to convince themselves it isn't retarded. Or they're just blithering postmodernists with no real conclusions, and not even any real goal beyond selling books, getting famous, and banging impressionable and star-eyed grad students. Could you make a short reading list recommendation? I might start with Bakunin just because you suggest he reasons well.

>>11900835
>but muh technological singularity
It's just like how people in the fifties thought we'd be in flying cars by now. If we can get really convincing sexbots before I'm dead I'll be happy.

>>11900729
>>11900699
No, there are deep ideological reasons why people are fascinated by the idea of AI, and so they want to see it come true for reasons similar to why anti-porn crusaders really want to believe there's tons of snuff porn being exchanged behind their backs. People are working towards a really vaguely defined concept that is a product of complex mechanisms we only have a cursory grasp of. When we fully understand our own intelligence (which is probably impossible), then we'll be able to simulate something similar with nonbiological computation. SciFi and the popscience media machine have been promising us AI for decades, and naive computer scientists have been seriously working on the problem since the 60's, yet we've made no breakthroughs. We're likely coming at it from entirely the wrong direction and it may be essentially impossible anyway. Not for it to exist, mind you, but for us to figure it out and design it. Here is a really short, nontechnical rundown on why we really aren't any closer to AI breakthroughs than we were 50 years ago (by a professor of computer science at MIT's Artificial Intelligence Lab):
https://www.infoq.com/presentations/We-Really-Dont-Know-How-To-Compute

>>11901959
The movie itself was pretty pedestrian but I thought Ledger's acting was spectacular.

>>11902518
Where can I read more of your thought. It´s all coherent to me.
Except I still don´t grasp this machine-God.
Are they implying that AI will reach the 12th dimension and mess with God? Who/what is Machine god?

>>11901441
The largest Buddhist denomination on the planet teaches that there is an all-pervading Buddha-nature which is basically a crypto-Atma (Self). Theravada is just a meme that become popular among westerners because it satisfies their nihilistic urges.

>>11902974
I've always interpreted that aspect of Land's work as meaning the nuts and bolts of democracy and capitalism add up to a very complex machine, which has its own motives and exercises more control over the population than the population exercises over it. The horror in visualizing the current world order as a godless, inhuman machinery puppetizing the rich and the poor alike shocks you into understanding the enormity of modernity's fundamental coercion.

>>11903140
Yes, but Land conceptualizes the domination of humanity by the cosmic force embodied by capital as itself emancipation. Freedom is slavery to the machine, submission to the ruling order.

>>11902673
>>11900835
>>11900764
>muh General AI
>AI can't do philosophy!
>I-I'm special!

"General" AI doesn't matter, it's just a thought experiment. Nobody cares about an AI that is just like a human, that's the last thing the people investing billions in AI want.
Your boss doesn't care if you have a rich inner life that is truly conscious, they care if you can do the work, and AI that can "do the work" is coming soon. Trying to ignore the consequences of AI putting millions out of work because AI isn't a real consciousness is as absurd as ignoring the consequences of the industrial revolution because a Jacquard loom can't write poetry.

>>11902301
Capitalism is the accelerative social factor and an intelligence attractor.

>>11904900
Also "capitalism" is absoltely synecdochal in reality, it's not only money. It's 'innovation' and 'drive' as a presence.

>>11904880
>and AI that can "do the work" is coming soon
We already use computers to do the work. What specific problems are going to be tackled by AI? Like I said, be SPECIFIC. The hype surrounding the ever "just a few years away" AI revolution is entirely the product of people misunderstanding what sorts of problems WE have to solve before AI can solve complex tasks we're struggling to systematically define. We want machines that are adaptive, that can solve problems by independently developing new problem solving approaches on the fly, but we don't actually know how to design these machines. Watch the video in >>11902795; you'll learn something. You are perfectly exemplifying the self-perpetuating hype train I was describing.

>>11897235
underrated post