/lit/ - Literature

he was not wrong

ye

he was a mentally ill dumbass, of course he was right

>>11887631
Oh abso-fucking-lutely. He could probably calculate how much pussy he'd gotten if he decided to spit game to some hoe cunts up there at MIT. Bruh just livin in the woods cause NIGGA WOKE af

HE
*retweets faceberg*
WAS
*eats dinner watching newest hydewars*
RIGHT
*checks tinder for new profiles*
ABOUT
*refreshes /lit/*
EVERYTHING
*applies to work at amazon*

>>11887631
on the topic of AI, yes, and the only escape from the logical prison he describes is a physical transcendence of the human race itself; a transcendence Kaczynsci would likely find abhorrent
on technology as a whole, no
on politics, mega brainlet

>>11887863
its not funny anymore try different jokes

>>11887997
tell em hug and kiss my ass, ex and oh

>>11887631
I like the part about technoindustrial society reducing man to a docile, pathetic creature even aside from any obvious negative consequences of technology.

>dude lets just forget that we reached a higher level of consciousness and go back to living like cavemen

"no"

>>11887799

Underrated post.

Yes, Ted was right. For all that's worth.

I don't think he wants to go outside if he could. The world changed alot since he went to prison.

>>11888364
>Mid to late 1800s
>Cavemen

>>11887631
No. Murdering and maiming innocent people because you don't like computers is batshit insane.

>>11889184
t. a computer-person hybrid.

Dude should have just read Marx and Engels. Could have learned the actual causes behind alienation, and understood the materialist view of history.

>>11887863
>oh you think society is bad, then why do you live in it?

>>11887828
>how much pussy he'd gotten if he decided to spit game
Dude is like 5'2, it was not going to happen no matter what he did.

>>11890110
It all comes back to being a manlet. Maybe it was inevitable that he turned out the way he did.

>>11887631
Every single day his writings burn a hole in my skull telling me to correlate what he wrote to what i'm seeing all around me, to just go off into the woods and live like he did

>>11890100
He unironicly studied Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Castro and Mail in prison. He also sed this in a footnote.

[31 Karl Marx maintained that the means of production constituted the decisive factor in determining the character of a society, bur Marx lived in a rime when the principal problem to which technology was applied was that of production. Because technology has so brilliantly solved the problem of production, production is no longer the decisive factor. More critical today are other problems to which technology is applied, such as processing of information and the regulation of human behavior (e.g., through propaganda). Thus Marx's conception of the force determining the character of a society must be broadened to include all of technology and not just the technology of production. lf Marx were alive today he would undoubtedly agree

>>11890100
>I'm NOT freaking """depressed""", I'm .-*~aLieNaTed~*-.

>>11890059
Redpilled

>>11890113
how tall were Minassian and Rodgers?

>>11890452
For Rodgers his exact height is less important than the fact he was obsessively fixated on it, seeing it as the cause of his social problems.

https://imgur.com/a/rHASF#0

>>11887997
>>11888301
based

>>11890340
*Mao
Check Antitech Revolution, new book of Ted. (Google it) Has plenty of references to Marx.

>>11888364
>cavemen
pic related is half a kilometer away from my house. Pretty good job for cavemen don't you think?

>>11890100
..... you should read both because you obviously haven't. Hell, add Ellul to the list.

>>11888364
>we reached a higher level of consciousness

>>11887799
>mentally ill
that´s what (((they))) want you to believe

>>11890603
Based frog.

>>11890100
Pic unrelated. It's hippy new-age trash that Marx would never have approved if he had still been alive.

>>11890651
People who criticize celebrity culture tend to be more obsessed with it than anyone.

It's always the loudest guy in the room who wants people to think he's the smartest who will scream KANYE WEST KIM KARDASHIAN unprovoked. Anyone who isn't retarded doesn't even think about these people, or even think about thinking about these people.

>>11888364
>uncle ted
>anprim

*snap*

>>11890883
>People who criticize celebrity culture tend to be more obsessed with it than anyone.
That's just completely false, stop making things up.

yes

>>11887631
No, but he is.

>>11887631
I had to answer a thousand time and the answer is still yes.

>>11890107
>oh you think society is bad, then why do you live in it?
I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the truth until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding. I can't escape the cave. Only death or prison await outside, why should I trade my golden cage for one made of wood and ticks? What would I use my freedom for anyway? A Consumerism Dictatorship is better that an anarcho-primitivist utopia. I have endless entertainment to keep my mind busy, pornography to satisfy my urge and drugs to keep the anger in check. I acknowledged long ago that I was born a cattle and that the wolves run the farm, stay in line or they will slaughter you like the ESB cow you are, do not contaminate the herd with your foolishness. The shadows on the cave wall, they are beautiful to me. I don't care about anything as long as the shadows are there... The philosopher can die alone outside the cave, the cave is warm, and the shadows are there for me.

You're better off reading pynchon

>>11887863
>>11891311
Books for this feel?

>>11891381
Gravity's Rainbow

>>11891257
"Lmao just wait"

>>11891257
*blocks your path*

heh nothing personel nick

>>11891442
aren't they in the same rape train

We could solve a lot of problems by simply reducing the global population. Global warming is a red herring. Don't trust anybody who talks about green energy without mentioning population growth. If we reduced the global population to a few million, then there'd be enough renewable energy for everyone and then some. The problem is getting the entire world to cooperate. But with robots, automation, and mutually-assured destruction, countries simply don't need a lot of poor people to grow food, build infrastructure, and fight wars for the ruling class anymore.

>>11891464
OK

>>11891381
Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

>>11891464
this is contrary to what Ted suggests. The radical should produce as many children as possible to ensure the spread of her ideology.

>>11891485
Wow what an idiot

>>11891464
>The problem is getting the entire world to cooperate
Hahaha

why is everyone so obsessed with this mentally ill man,as a teenager at harvard he participated in an intentionally stress inducing study where he was verbally abused and attacked for over 200 hours, given this information it is no wonder he developed ideas about the evil of technology, he became a misanthrope after this incident, and lost hope in the good side of humanity, and wanted to escape into the wilderness, he saw technology as the enforcer of oppression on humans, he decided the only way for humans to be free was to remove technology.

All his ideas were strongly shaped by his bad experiences during the psychological experiments, after this event he thought human nature would be better off without the power of technology

>>11891506
You can't outbreed what's currently going on, even if you can keep up a little, but as you know your proposal can't be followed if there aren't people willing to follow it. And I suppose having more people will contribute to the fall of modern society, which might be a good thing. As long as nature isn't destroyed first.

>>11891381
White Noise

>>11891464
Global elites are well aware of this and are actually working on reducing the world's population
worst case scenario: economic crisis in the next few years, followed by WW3 (globalists -american-zionists and european liberal elite- vs iran/russia(china?)) nuclear warfare? environmental cataclysm?
"best case" scenario: Implementation of UBI - making people 100% reliant on the government, then gov start fueling anti-natalist policies (hedonism, liberal competition, nihillism, capitalist culture etc - or straight forward pop control à la china)

There are a thousand possible scenarios in between, a mix of both is most likely. What is most likely is a technological/environmental cataclysm taking care of us.

Point is, reduction of population WILL happen this century. Do you want the elite to be the ones in charge of the culling? Do you want technology to wipe us out? No. The only option left is destroying technology ourselves. The lazy and domesticated urbanites will let themselves die off in the cities while the more fit and able will leave the cities en masse to find water.

>>11891589
What a bunch of pseudo intellectual conspiracy theory crap.

His ideas were shaped by his experience with his parents their mental abuse. He early on had an interest in Primitive life and what it entails in therms of freedom. His anti tech ideas were strongly influenced by Ellul.

>>11891589
Can you link me some further reading on this experiment, I'm curious.

>>11891589
>he participated in an intentionally stress inducing study

FALSE. LIES. WRONG. WEAK ATTEMPT AT DELIGITIMIZING KACZYNSKI

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-connection-between-the-CIA-MKultra-program-and-the-Unabomber

Short answer: None. This story originates from the book, “Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist” with no real, solid, tangible evidence.


Your entire argument against Kazcynski is a lie. lol. Then again, if you don't like kazcynski because he is evil and bad then why don't you address Ellul, a fucking christian anarchist, who holds the same ideas?

>>11891628
IT'S A LIE

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-connection-between-the-CIA-MKultra-program-and-the-Unabomber

>>11891594
Prove it

>>11891442
Moldbug is such a dumb pseud. I can't believe anyone takes this kike that can't go a blog without making a reference to Star Wars seriously.

>>11890883
No it's objectively not. The most celebrity obsessed people are typically middle aged white women who have nothing else to do

>>11891635
>>11891642
Woah settle down

>>11891644
Prove what exactly?

>>11891620
>Point is, reduction of population WILL happen this century.

why do you think this will happen inevitably, africa, china and indian population are at the highest rates right now

He was right, but I think the problem will ultimately take care of itself. AI is the modern tower of babel, a project doomed to failure from the start.

We are still decades away from AI at current rates of advancement, while the cohort of scientists working on the problem decays every year due to dysgenics and the creative inhibition of multiculturalism. Note that we haven't had a truly groundbreaking non-incremental advance in science since the discovery of DNA in the 50's.

At a certain point the decay will reach a critical point where we essentially forget how to operate modern technology, and it will happen well before AI.

>>11891677
It's just a shitty guess, population wipeouts are not that uncommon on a long enough time scale.

>>11891668
That we're doomed if we continue to populate. Lots of planets are out there my man

>>11891677
Because the earth cannot sustain the current population. Simple as that. We might not see billions of death in this century but hundreds of millions of death is guaranteed. Also as our society grows more and more technological, centralization is bound to happen. A single attack/accident/etc means hundreds of millions of people will be left without power/water/food/security... you get the gist

>>11891710
Read The Wanting Seed

>>11891710
>Because the earth cannot sustain the current population
But it currently does. You mean in future it cannot sustain what is now here?

>>11891700
>the problem will ultimately take care of itself
Yes it will! Kaczynski aknowledges that! What he advocates for is the total destruction of the technological system BEFORE it wipes us out. Think of the repercussions, if the system collapses it could mean the end of every complex organisms on earth. We have to destroy it before it destroys life. It might not kill all of life (unikely, but most of it is a real possibility)

>>11891706
There is exacty a 0% chance of us colonizing (ie more than like a 10 person trillion dollar a year base) anything outside earth in the next century

>>11891727
Prove it

>>11891635
>>11891642
Chill you inrational kook, get some composure. People constantly believe myths, and ignorant folk who dont do research will always fall for it. Who has the time, energy and Interest nowadays to even look into Kaczynski to go beyond the media caricature that is so easy to gobble up.

>>11891726
>could

Holy unsubstantiated bullshit, batman!

>>11891727
> 0% chance.
Wow, can you tell me the lottery numbers for this week or is your ability to see in the future limited to grand statements backed with fuck all?

>>11891726
I imagine it will be pretty horrific but even in a worst case nuclear holocaust there would be tens of thousands to millions of survivors to restart humanity

>>11891730
common sense

>>11891743
There isn't enough nukes to really holocaust the humanity. Not sure if there ever was, but current KNOWN amounts are insufficient.

Besides we might get some insanely awesome fast tracked natural selection and beneficial mutations out of the experience (negative mutations will be bred out obv.)

>>11891735
It's not even a myth, the experiment still took place, the uncertainty of it is whether or not it's connected to MKULTRA.

>>11891706
I can't prove something that might or might not happen if we're lucky. I'm sure you know there are side effects to high population number though.

>>11891747
That's not how it works sweetie ;)

>>11891764
It's sweaty, sweaty.

>>11891757
That's what I've been telling you lol

>>11891706
>deforestation, sea levels, overpopulation, acidification of oceans, 6th mass extinction event, global warming, risk of nuclear warfare, shortage of oil - system will collapse before fusion power is discovered, etc..

>So what? We're going to mars bro! Elon will save humanity *tips fedora* I'm rational bro see, I love science

Childish delusions. Techno-optimists are literal children. Immature, can't face external reality, think technology (daddy) will fix everything for them.

>>11891772
You didn't tell me anything you just asked me to "prove it." I'm not whoever else you were replying to.

>>11891774
Nice strawman kiddo

>>11891774
> THE SEA LEVELS!11!
Jesus, it's 2018, we were supposed to have New York drowning by now according to Al Gore in 2000.

Go get fucked (I mean have sex)

>>11891777
Oh brainlets, will they ever learn?

>>11891756
>the experiment still took place

THEN GIVE A SOURCE

YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S A LIE.

Kaczynski himself said it's bullshit and the *only* study he ever participated in was him filling out multiple choice quizzes at harvard. But that doesn't quench the anglo's thirst for sensationalism so he has to come up with his own holywood fantasies.

>>11891786
Okay I guess.

>>11891798
>YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S A LIE.
according to post modernism it's truth, get fucked ( i mean dont have sex)

>>11891798
From your source:

>Certainly, the zeitgeist of the turbulent 1960s must have contributed to Kaczynski’s development, and the Murray experiment may have acted as a catalyst, igniting a long-smoldering predisposition to vengeance and violence (p. 292), but as Chase himself acknowledges (Chase 2000: 58), there’s no established link between the experiment that Kaczynski participated in and LSD research

>>11891798
Shut up

As usual, techno-optimists are out of arguments. Between the personal attacks on kaczynski, anglo moralism, mkultra holywood scenarios, and general ignorance on the subject of anti-technology, these threads get tiring.

>>11891781
ok

Weird shitposters here.

>>11891816
Stop making them then :)

>>11891806
>certainly
>must have
>may have
>there’s no established link
L M A O
COME UP WITH A SOURCE, NOT THE FANTASIES OF SOME RANDOM ANGLO JOURNALIST

>>11891824
Okay but the experiment still happened and Ted was still a nut.

>>11891835
>Okay but the experiment still happened
? no

You are completely insane

>>11891845
From late 1959 to early 1962, Murray was responsible for experiments that have come widely to be considered unethical, in which he used twenty-two Harvard undergraduates as research subjects.[4] Among other goals, experiments sought to measure individuals' responses to extreme stress. The unwitting undergraduates were submitted to what Murray called "vehement, sweeping and personally abusive" attacks. Specifically-tailored assaults to their egos, cherished ideas and beliefs were used to cause high levels of stress and distress. The subjects then viewed recorded footage of their reactions to this verbal abuse repeatedly.

Among them was 17-year-old Ted Kaczynski, a mathematician who went on to become the Unabomber, a domestic terrorist targeting academics and technologists for 18 years.[5] Alston Chase's book Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist connects Kaczynski's abusive experiences under Murray to his later criminal career.[5]

>>11891774
Not disagreeing with you -- just adding to the discussion. A lot of those can be solved by reducing the global population.

Deforestation? With a few million people on the planet, we can easily replant what we take. I bet renewable resources like bamboo and hemp would be more practical.

Sea levels/global warming? Carbon emissions would quickly drop with fewer people using coal, fossil fuels, and eating meat.

Hunger? You didn't mention this, but I saw this somewhere in the thread. We can produce vast amounts of food for a few million people. The reason food was scarce before the 20th century is because we simply didn't have the automation we have today. Ever seen those videos of them harvesting crops? An unidentifiable mass goes in one side and out pops a recognizable food on the other.

Nuclear warfare? Less tension in the world with more resources to go around. In theory.

Peak oil? We have electric cars and renewable energy already. The problem is that with our current technology we can't meet the demand. In fact, we probably have thousands of years of oil and coal left if we used it during nighttime and powered the world with solar/wind/water during the day.

>>11891890
Woah dude so you're telling me that fewer people will use fewer resources?

>>11891868
Hahahahaha you can't be serious hahahhahaha
it's from the fucking book I talked about above. hahhahahhahahahaha

>This story originates from the book, “Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist” with no real, solid, tangible evidence.

>no real, solid, tangible evidence.

hahahhahahaha kazcynski himself said it's not true

hahahaha, wew

>>11891896
No dude, the experiment is common knowledge, the book just argues that it influenced him is all.

>>11891890
You are right that we can solve most of these problems through technological means. Kazcynski writes specifically about this. The system will eventually fix its ecological impact, obviously, otherwise it will collapse. So anti-tech is not simply about environmentalism.

Anti-tech is first and foremost about freedom and human decency. It's radical environmentalism and radical anarchy (as a process, of course hierarchies will form once the tech system collapses) without compromise. We can introduce policies to reduce pollution etc, but it requires a huge amount of social organisation, sacrifices etc.. that we will NOT make. Why should we deliberately put ourselves in 10ft square appartments, why should we stop eating meat? Where is the limit? Is there one? Will humans ever reach obsolescence? If they do, then by your logic, we should kill them/replace them/whatever.

Why do we have to even ask ourselves these questions? I don't want to have to choose between killing 3 billions humans or witness the earth turn into an inhabitable rock. I don't want to have to choose between shooting migrants on the border or letting them in. Get rid of technology and we won't ask ourselves these questions anymore.

>>11891901
>the experiment is common knowledge
hahahhahahhaha you keep on giving.
common knowledge, that somehow flew over Kazcynski? Hahahahhaahah
Common knowledge that can't be sourced, how convenient hahahaha

I think the Murray experiments were strongly influential in kaczynski's ideas.Why else would he have such strong convictions about the evil of humanity, he couldn't even accept it himself he blamed technology, but technology is only a tool, it cannot oppress you it is the people using that technology that are removing his freedom, i think what Kaczynski really hated was the evil of human nature, he was exposed to it at a young age during the experiments and after he saw what humans were capable of he had to find a way to solve it, he thought the only way to regain freedom was to destroy all technology which gives humans the capability of doing terrible evils, but in reality there could be even worse oppression without technology there always has been it is human nature that is bad not technology.

>>11891925
no, common knowledge that they happened and Ted participated in them...

>>11887631
Whats his opinion on the proles?

>>11891921
sounds like Ted was a pussy

>>11891929
>Murray experiments
Kazcynski was not a part of it, samefag
>such strong convictions about the evil of humanity
read kazcynski, he's a rousseauian hahahah but you don't even know what this means
>technology is only a tool
Find a philosopher which unironically thinks this lmao, every analysis of technique yields similar conclusions, which is that tech is NOT neutral (heidegger, spengler, ellul, kazcynski, zerzan, rousseau,
>Kaczynski really hated was the evil of human nature
....... read rousseau
>he was exposed to it at a young age during the experiments
there are no experiments, what are you talking about?
>there could be even worse oppression without technology
........................ ok
>human nature is bad not technology
....
.

Painful.. I would kill myself if I was this dumb


The problem with techno-optimists is that they don't know science nor philosophy.

>>11891894
I can detect the sarcasm, but yes, our problems are political. Done and done. It's really that "simple", but obviously politics is anything but. It's infuriating. Make civilization look something like the 17th century (where people have plantations and grow their own food) but throw in a few advancements here and there to make people comfortable. And get the population down to like 50 million or less. I'm not sure what a good number would be. But that's 0.007% of what it is currently is (I used 7 billion as my divisor). Get everybody spread out over the globe so no single event could wipe out humanity.

>>11891961
whoops, 0.7%

>>11891959
>Kazcynski was not a part of it, samefag
yes he was

>>11891961
yeah I'll be the leader :)

The poster who obsess over kaczynski being a victim of MK ultra is either a shill, or a dedicated troll. Keeps trying to get a (you) even when shown that he is wrong and that it's a lie.

Basic misinformation spreading techniques. Make your point as visible as possible, even if wrong. Retards will latch onto it soon enough. You actually think it would work in an anti-tech thread lol? Ellul wrote two books on this subject

>>11892090
The poster who obsesses over kaczynski in general is a pseud and apparently mentally ill himself

>>11892101
>>11892090

(You)

>>11892117
cope

>>11892101
>obsess over kaczynski
I know it sounds weird for an illiterate shitposter such as yourself but I have read pretty much every relevant philosopher from the greeks until now. I would call it an obsession if TK were the only reading I've done in the past two years... sorry anglo, I'm neither a moralist or a sensationalism addicted pseud. I'm more interested in the intellectual side of philosophy.

>you're a retard and a pseud and mentally ill
techno-optimists "arguments"

>>11892133
>wow guys there sure are a lot of people on the earth we should kill most of them to save resources and space
woah...

>>11892128
>sorry anglo

for someone supposedly so interested in science and intellect you sure do resort to a lot of superstitious, emotional thinking lmao

>>11892128
>I'm more interested in the intellectual side of philosophy.
shiggy

>>11891381
try masturbation

>>11892141
? Anti-tech is about saving as much life as possible before an environmental/technological cataclysm wipes us all out

The irony is that the people you vote for are actually working towards to what you think anti-tech stands for lmao. I can only think of Linkola who advocates for culling, but he's an eco fascist, so a complete retard and absolutely not aligned with typical anti-tech thought

>>11892280
Yeah and it's a stupid idea

>>11890858
>Marx would never have approved if he had still been alive
So? Marx didn't have all the answers, his work serves as a foundation for future advancements in theory, not the be all-end all of it. Lenin said as much. Engels is a different person from Marx, so obviously one cannot claim that his writing will be entirely in line with what Marx would have written. But as an application of marxist theory onto history the book has some very profound truths to offer.

>>11887631
No, cyborgs are cooler than vanilla humans.

>>11893060
t. cyborg

>listening to some dumb Polack who bombed innocent germanic anglo-saxons
P*les never produced anything of value

>>11893067
No shit. Were you going somewhere with this?

If you kill people for reasons such as this, you are

A) a loser
B) a coward

>>11890360
it's the same thing you absolute cretin

>>11890107
this but unironically.
Move into the wilderness and mailbomb people if you're not a pussy

>>11893160
but that's exactly what a pussy would do though

>>11893235
>evaded the fbi for 17 years
>caused international panic
>willing to kill and die for his convictions

I know you're trolling but you're a pussy lol

>>11893473
all while hiding out in his little cuckshed, what a little pansy

>>11893120
Reasons such as what? trying to contribute to discussions and get out ideas the 'system' would otherwise bury?

>>11893874
yes

>>11893473
Shut the fuck up retard, Ted Kaczinsky is a fucking dumbass and a coward for killing other people.

This is Tyler btw

>>11887863
I would give it up all right now if I could press a button to do so.