/lit/ - Literature

>>11828558
I mean they're correct, except then everyone else starts starving to death

>>11828558
Why don’t you fascists just fuck off and die already? Honestly I’m getting sick of your shitting up this board. You add nothing substantive to the conversation, nothing any more than slightly tangentially related to literature (muh Evola, muh Kafka was a Jew), nothing worth anything to anyone at all. Why don’t you stick to /pol/, or, better yet, why don’t you close your laptop, crawl out of your mom’s basement and into the kitchen, turn the gas on to full blast, and, after the house is filled with fumes, light a match, engulfing you and your dumb-fuck, white trash, racist family in the purifying fires of justice, burning your dogshit genetic line from the face of the earth and family name from the minds of more decent men and women? My wife’s daughter is transgender, a “commie” and twice the “man” you’ll ever be. Grow up and join us in the real world.

>>11828569
Not a fascist but even the most basic bottom of the barrel /pol/ shitpost has more literary merit than Marxist anti-human theory drivel. I HIGHLY welcome posts such as this to drive the rats out

>>11828574
You’re uneducated and a racist. Learn to think for yourself instead of constructing your personal ideology as a mirror image of Breitbarf and Faux News.

>>11828583
Eh no I'm actually very educated and VERY racist. I've probably read more Marxist writers than anyone claiming to be a Leftist on this board and I know its all proxy-religious garbage

>>11828558
I am yet to meet a leftist who is actually informed on social history and isn't just reiterating whatever they read on the Communist Manifesto
pic related is one of my favourite examples
notice how the creator thinks the Plebs were the slaves of Patricians
while at the same time, he uses the term "proletariat" for the modern low class, ignoring the fact the proletariat was the low class of Roman society, and even then they weren't slaves

>>11828558
no it isn't, at all

>>11828593
Who hurt you? Seriously. Girlfriend leave you for a black man? Mexican took your job? You people are pathetic scum.

>>11828602
None of that shit. Through all the worst things that happened to me in my life I was a Leftist and remained a Leftist. It was not until I became severely demotivated and cynical about the world (what some anti-human lunatics may call depression) that I reflected on what it is to actually live on your own feet as your own man and seen that Leftism was just a major cope for losers and an ultimately unsustainable ethical standard.
Since embracing the deepest loyalty I have first to myself, my family and my volk things have been far better and a sense of purpose restored.

>>11828616
You should have just ended it. Your depression was nature telling you that you’re worthless scum.

But I guess if brainwashing yourself with right wing propoganda and living as a hateful ideologue is what you need in order to get out of bed, then it’s what you need...

Consider therapy.

>>11828626
Nice try weakling. The strong will be protected from the weak

>>11828633
Right, I’m the weakling...not the guy who fell into a hurt fee-fees well and couldn’t get himself out of it and walk like a man with his back straight without leaning on antiquated pseudo-mystical concepts like “the volk” as if on a crutch. Why you need crutches racist cripple bitch? Why you need to put others down in order to feel like big man again?

Racist scum.

>>11828583
>values "education"
>tells people to learn to think for themselves

>>11828646
the most valuable part of higher education is learning to question and doing your own research
unless you study in america, then your courses are bullshit meant to fill in hours

>>11828641
Sorry, can't hear you over the echoes of eternity

>>11828646
Right, the uneducated are actually the best able to think freely, clearly and cogently. Oh wait, that’s not true...
>>11828653
This.
>>11828655
Not an argument, you sad crippled racist

>>11828558
>>11828595
>Why do memes simplify complex theory?
Pure Autism

>>11828672
>complex theory

Nice meme

>>11828676
t. never opened Capital

>>11828672
it isn't simplifying, claiming the plebs were slaves is outright misinformation

>>11828679
Have actually, but I doubt you have since you think there's actually anything in there.
Most Marxists who have end up doubling down and saying "V-Volume I was still his immature work. You have to read all of Grundrisse twice to see the REAL Marxism(TM)"

>>11828558
fixed

>>11828696
Literal Rhodes scholars have devoted lifetimes to studying Capital, and you have the audacity to say there is NOTHING in there? Absurd.

The good thing about the commies is that they usually hang the useful idiot "intellectuals" first

>>11828740
HA totally!

>>11828712
You mean they got payed to pretend as if they were studying it there whole life. Yeah there's plenty of civil servent leeches out there robbing our money

>>11828702
>tfw i can't tell if a trot, anarchist, fascist or liberal made this meme

/lit/ - literature
Please keep political discussions to the appropriate boards
Or just die. That’s ok too

>>11828745
>there
Uhm nice try sweetie

>>11828702
>>11828746
Maybe left-communist?

>>11828754
Not an argument

>>11828746
All of them are better than authoritarian """""""socialists"""""""

>>11828763
You mean the socialists that can actually run a country? I'm no fucking commie but its hilarious when meme pinkos act superior to the one form of communism that ever managed to keep a society running

>>11828767
*Fucks the free territory in the ass, betrays the Spanish anarchists*
Guys Socialism can only come about by way of a massive mass murdering authoritarian regime, can't you see

>>11828633

>talks about embracing family and volk

>proceeds to post Nietzsche

Cringe.

>>11828781
>T-they didn't play fair, it doesn't count!!

Yeah thats real life bud. If your political praxis can't handle people not paving your road with daisies then its your fault not theirs

>>11828787
>you have to get behind everything a man said if you take any ideas from him
Commie logic at its finest

>>11828789
>Your ideology is flawed
>Why
>Because we beat your ass lmao

>>11828791

Or you're just selectively taking things from Nietzsche to suit your own beliefs - a stunning act of cognitive dissonance.

To be a Marxist is to accept constant reversions in theory. Lenin displaced Marx's original conception of proletarian revolution, as Mao did with Lenin. Can you honestly name a more self-critical philosophy and social movement? Why do you think the far-left is so splintered and fractionalised over things that look trivial to everyone else?

>>11828781
>betrays the Spanish anarchists
They were never on the same side. Even back in 1906 Stalin wrote a pamphlet all about how anarchists are not to be supported if socialism was to be achieved.
>Guys Socialism can only come about by way of a massive mass murdering authoritarian regime
You need to defend the revolution. Capitalists are not going to just give up.

>>11828808
*revisions

>>11828806
An ideology that gets its ass beat is a flawed ideology. If you can neither convince people or arrange a force that can overcome those you can't convince then you may as well just be a monk in a cave because you're certainly not doing politics which is nothing more than dealing with conflict

>>11828808
>To be a Marxist is to accept constant reversions in theory.

Imagine saying this and missing the obvious contradiction in this sentence.

>>11828810
Agreed, you never know when the red army will invade your free territory after you beat the Germans and the whites and save their revolution

Didn't the guy who made that caricature of a pig capitalist get gulaged?

>>11828821

I meant "constant revisions".

>>11828831
Nothing to do with what I said. You're not constantly revising if you're always still a Marxist.
People who actually revise what they believe are called economists, or scientists. What you remain is a dogmatist

Does owning stock make you a capitalist?

>>11828837
And your reply had little to do with with what I said - your intentionally obfuscating by conflating terms.

Theory informs practice, and practice shows what works and what doesn't, which then informs theory - that is the materialist outlook.

Lenin revised Marx because the conditions for revolution when and where Marx was writing did not exist in Russia. Mao revised Marx and Lenin because those conditions did not exist in China. And the Frankfurt School revised 'Eastern Marxism' because those conditions did not exist in Western Europe. And today Zizek, Badiou and a few others are revising and critiquing the whole development of Marxism.

>>11828861

>>11828869

"Lo, I show you the Last Man!"

>>11828826
Whether you like it or not, it is impossible to defeat capitalism and then go straight to communism. Marxism-Leninism is the closest we have ever got and it worked relatively well for decades despite pro-market right-wingers like Khrushchev taking it off course. It still took decades until Gorbachev finally rekt it.

Obviously it fell short and wasn't perfect, but the fact that the USSR stayed around for decades and had a high standard of living, while fighting imperialism and forcing capitalist countries to treat it's workers better shows that it is what we need to build off of.

Also take a look Paul Cockshot's Towards a New Socialism. Cybernetic communism is the future assuming workers don't get crushed by capitalists before the earth cooks to death.

>>11828767
>keep a society running

>they all collapsed within 100 years

>>11828929
Why the fuck would you even want to go towards communism? I mean the actual ideal itself is garbage, ignoring its impossibility. Another society of flaccid weaklings who sit around in utter leisure all day? No thanks we've had enough of that shit under capitalism.

>>11828929
Khrushchev was hardly the cause of the collapse simply the straw that broke the camels back. It was constantly being forced to abandon communism principles (out of practicality) and overstretch itself to attempt to compete with the USA, it was only a matter of time before it collapsed into what it is today.

>>11828767
do you really think that a group of people can actually "run a country"?

no wonder why this idea came from plato, the ultimate utopist lol

>>11828933
Thats an outstanding record compared to any of these other type of pinko pipe dream

>>9769400
>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc.
>If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/

>>11828964
>do you really think that a group of people can actually "run a country"?

Not without fucking everyone up in the process. Thats why I believe in individualism and enterprise

>>11828967
Obviously, but Soviet style communism was hardly a "success".

>>11828970
Political philosophy is directed linked to literature.

>>11828564
They already were in every society that fell to it, though. It's still a pretty common way to go regardless of the ruling ideology.

>>11828616
>live on your own feet as your own man

Anybody believing this after growing up in any modem society is a mental vacuum.

Communism is a tool for ambitious people to accrue power, the same as any ideology. People are shit, arguing about their excuses for being shit it nothing but vankery for incel losers.

>>11828558
Stick your head in the oven already, you worthless troll scum.

>>11828981
>If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/

>>11829006
>Anybody believing this after growing up in any modem society is a mental vacuum.

>>11829010
We both know philosophy (and literature) and politics cross over retard.

>>11828940
Because communism is the resolution of contradictions which are inherent under both capitalism and socialism.

>>11828972

Individualism is the greatest lie of modernity, you cannot be an individual human unit unless you live in complete isolation from all economic and social activity. And you can't believe in both individualism and enterprise; labour is inherently social - what you mean is you want to own private property and hire others to work for you, crushing their individuality.

>>11828957
Khrushchev and the right -wing of the party pushed plenty of pro-market and decentralizing policies under his "De-Stalinization" nonsense.
>It was constantly being forced to abandon communism principles.
Communism can only be achieved when capitalist countries have been defeated. The problem was the USSR made tons of mistakes that built up over time Starting with Khrushchev's economic/political reforms of the 1950/60's that increased corruption and stagnated the economy.
>it was only a matter of time before it collapsed into what it is today.
The USSR had plenty of times where is could have turned it's situation around (such as investing in computers and cutting back on luxury consumer goods), but unfortunately it was not to be.

>>11829020
>Individualism is the greatest lie of modernity, you cannot be an individual human unit unless you live in complete isolation from all economic and social activity.

>>11829021

>>11829020
>I can say my ideology is better than all others too!

commies pretend to be working class but everyone knows it's an affectation

>>11829040
Why would you even want to be working class. They're fucking retards

>>11829034
lol

>>11829021
>end to famines
LOL

>>11829038
The problem with edgelords who think they're non-ideological is that they always reproduce the ruling ideology.

>>11829042
R-REEEEEEEEEEE PORKY BOUGIE SCUM HOW DARE YOU TRIVIALISE THE WORKING PROLETARIAT
YOU WILL HHHAAAAAAAAAAANNGGGGGG!!!!

>>11829050
>if you don't count all the famines he ended famines

>>11829021
>Khrushchev and the right -wing of the party pushed plenty of pro-market and decentralizing policies under his "De-Stalinization" nonsense.

The increasing tolerance and emplacement of markets was being pushed way before Khrushchev.

>ommunism can only be achieved when capitalist countries have been defeated. The problem was the USSR made tons of mistakes that built up over time Starting with Khrushchev's economic/political reforms of the 1950/60's that increased corruption and stagnated the economy.

Saying that it can only be achieved when every country just submits to it is proof of its inability to work. You're misunderstanding industrialization for progress.

>The USSR had plenty of times where is could have turned it's situation around (such as investing in computers and cutting back on luxury consumer goods), but unfortunately it was not to be.

>investing
>argues that the right wing market policies ruined it

just lmaoing at your life

>>11829054
I am ideological, I just don't have the audacity to say my ideology will fix all problems as my single argument.

>>11829054
>when I say gas the jews I'm supporting the ruling ideology

>there are unironically Marxists in the 21st century that haven't become accelerationists
Let us not be obtuse, for I also was one of you. Praxis has failed, as have the order of socialist national development, regardless of Western aggressions or sanctions. It is over now, these petty debates with "internet racists" only solidifies this; the privatization is the world cannot be counteracted through digital communication, and the dialectical theories shall not be synthesized through the crucial element of action. Read Fanged Noumena, now.

>>11829015
So show me a single post in this thread that has anything to do with literature, rather than just being muh ideoloy.

No? Then fuck off back to pol where you belong.

>>11829073
>ideology doesn't exist in literature

>>11829070
*The privatization of the world

>>11828767
Makhno's Ukraine would've lived but Lenin took her over
Yugoslav self-determinating work socialism would've worked but Tito took it over

>>11829065
Neither do I, I just think Marxism has the best methodology, and that a many social deprivations and ills are created by a system in which labour is social and property is private - and that this contradiction can be removed.

>>11829083
Guess you shouldn't have went with such a shitty ideology that gets taken over so easily

>>11829050
>>11829057
There were no famines in the USSR after Stalin. The aftermath of WW2 was the last one in 1946.

>>11829058
>The increasing tolerance and emplacement of markets was being pushed way before Khrushchev.
While there have always been pro-market people in the party, Stalin was working on eliminating markets.
>Saying that it can only be achieved when every country just submits to it is proof of its inability to work.
Socialism can work in one country, but communism is stateless so you can not have aggressive imperial powers to roll over you. That is literally why Marxism keeps a state.

>>investing
>>argues that the right wing market policies ruined it
What's the problem? The USSR should have put more resources into building computers. How does researching computers contradict anything I said?

>>11829090
>19th century China
>Capitalist

>>11829089
But it only got took over after Lenin sent the whole Red army
How come was such a weak ideology able to defend against German Imperial troops and the Whites?

>>11829070
Read Trouble in Paradise and The Communist Hypothesis.

>>11829105
>The Communist Hypothesis.

Read this. Just a rambling old man with no point to make

>>11829085
>Because communism is the resolution of contradictions

You literally just repeated this in your comment. You completely do have the audacity.

Only monarchy was successful and by God and capital we're evolving into anarcho-monarchism

>>11829097
Yeah the infograph is notr perfect but really there is a lot of debate about how to count famines and what system is responsible. Especially when a country like India or China are transitioning to more capitalist system of production vs feudalist or when an imperialist country like Britain imposes capitalist systems on parts of an economy to have more textiles, opium or whatever.

>>11829090
>While there have always been pro-market people in the party, Stalin was working on eliminating markets.

Stalin literally couldn't eliminate markets and he knew it.

>Socialism can work in one country, but communism is stateless so you can not have aggressive imperial powers to roll over you. That is literally why Marxism keeps a state.

Exactly why its a retarded ideology, that you have to have the whole world accept it before it can work.

>What's the problem? The USSR should have put more resources into building computers. How does researching computers contradict anything I said?

Do you really not understand how investing is a feature of markets?

>>11829114
>or when an imperialist country like Britain imposes capitalist systems on parts of an economy to have more textiles, opium or whatever.

Britain did the exact opposite in India and shut down their free ability to produce textiles. You're a major league dingus

>>11829109
I repeated it because that's my point. One which you seemingly can't tackle (or grasp?).

>>11829114
>your own nation vs some backwater colony full of street shitters you view as subhuman

>>11829122
Because you literally make no argument other than "muh ideology best it fix bad bad in other things". You can't say why it fixes them and what the perceived problems are.

>>11829020
individualism doesn't imply that you're not gonna cooperate with other individuals ever

both parties can cooperate if both parties are willing to

>>11829105
>More books to prize the emancipation from alienation, while instituting perpetually unstable conditions of the socialist ideology itself
You've been caught in a losing battle, friend.

>>11828595
>proletariat was the low class of Roman society,
No they were plebeians.

>>11829128
The problem is: labour is social and property is held privately (when there is not need for it to be so). This is what creates class division, economic inequality, the seperation of political and economic interests between owners and workers.

If the means of production were owned and ran, directly and democratically by those who worked with them then there wouldn't be this class division, and the poverty and alienation which comes from it.

>>11828558
I can't even make sense of the picture.

Do people think socialism and communism are the same thing? Do communist think they are socialists?

I CANT LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE, WE MUST KILL, GAS, BURN, DESTROY, ANNHILATE 99% OF THE POPULATION............. PEOPLE ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOO FUCKIIIIIIING STUPID I MIGHT START A NUCLEAR WAR THIS IS TOO FUCKING MUCH COMMUNISM = SOCIALISM?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WHY ARE PEOPLE THIS FUCKING RETARDED FOR FUCKS SAKE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAVE YOU GUYS NOT READ A SINGLE BOOK IN YOUR LIFE? LMAO SOCIALISM IS THE OPPOSITE OF COMMUNISM HOW COULD PEOPLE EVEN CONFLATE THE TWO I MEAN ITS LIKE SAYING BLUE = ORANGE I REFUSE TO BELIEVE PLEBS ARE THIS RETARDED

BUT THE WORST IS THAT POLITICIZED CHILDREN WILL THINK IM PRO COMMIE OR POLITICAL IN ANY WAY BECAUSE THEY CANNOT THINK BEYOND THEIR LIMITED PLEBEIAN DISGUSTING VOMIT INDUCING PERSPECTIVE THAT SHOULD BE VIOLENTLY REPRESSED FOR BEING THIS STUPID


KILL THEM ALL

>>11829132
I agree with the substance of you're saying, but I don't understand why you feel the need to call it 'individualism' (which has always struck me as an artistic, romantic, notion)? It's literally mutual aid.

BURN THIS THREAD BURN THIS BOARD BURN EVERY SUB 140 IQ OXYGEN WASTER

BURN THE BOOKS NOBODY READS OR UNDERSTANDS THEM ANYWAYBURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

>>11829150
Because its a conscious choice to reaffirm you are the center of your own universe and your interest in any system or endeavor is first and foremostly how it interests you and fuck everyone else

>>11829145
When you say labour is social I assume you mean people create the property and it is immoral for it to be held privately. What you're glossing over is the fact that workers are not creating it in and of themselves, they are being directed and aided by leaders, and both are rewarded for their contribution, labourers due to the commonness of their work are paid less compared to the intelligence required to lead them, not to mention the incentive to do so. The means of production can never be ran by their workers as they are literally too retarded and greedy to use it efficiently. Not to mention you assume inequality is a bad thing.

>>11829120
>Stalin literally couldn't eliminate markets and he knew it.
And Stalin considered it a big problem to be fixed while Khrushchev and co wanted more markets.
>Exactly why its a retarded ideology, that you have to have the whole world accept it before it can work
There is nothing retarded about it. That only means it is going to be more difficult.
>Do you really not understand how investing is a feature of markets?
You don't need markets (which consist of Buyers and Sellers. i.e two parties) when one organization (the Communist Party) says to the scientists under them to work on and research computers.

>>11829121
>Britain did the exact opposite in India and shut down their free ability to produce textiles.
I just used textiles as an example. In any case, India was under the rule of the British East India Company since 1757. A capitalist entity.

>>11829123
A famine is still a famine

FUCK OFF THIS THREAD YOU GUYS ARE WORTHLESS PLEBS WITH ZERO ABILITY FOR INTELLECTUALISM JUST FUCK OFF AND LIVE YOUR PLEB LIFE WATCH NETFLIX DO SOMETHING UNPRODUCTIVE BUT DONT ACT LIKE YOU WERE EVER SUPPOSED TO USE YOUR UNDERDEVELOPPED BRAIN FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN TOILING THE SOIL

KILL YOURSELVES ON THE WAY OUT I CANT STAND ANY OF YOU

>>11829150
coletivism denies the individual, in favor of the ""society"" (and therefore society will always mean: everyone except you)

individualism claims that the individual does exist and should not be subjugated to the coletive

>>11829169
That's a fair point, but one which I philosophically disagree with. Humans are a species, and inherently social by nature. Social relations are fundamental to human beings. Whether or not you would sacrifice yourself for others is your own prerogative, but the idea that you would or wouldn't is imbedded in a social totality. The fact remains that others would and have, rightly or wrongly, and that has been the case since before we were primates.

>>11829180
>In any case, India was under the rule of the British East India Company since 1757.

Wrong, East Indian Company was abolished and their property confiscated by Parliament after the Sepoy Rebellion. The famines in the most deadly famines in the latter half of the 19th century were a consequence of central planning and severe anti-free enterprise policies

>>11829169
what you are saying is completely antiteleological my friend

if you are selfish and driven by your own welfare, it is of your own interest that other individuals around you are also doing well because you also benefit from it