/lit/ - Literature

I warned u bro

>>11798358
>>>/pol/

>>11798358
>pop culture has won the fight against western culture
Sorry to tell you, but what you're seeing is Western culture.

>>11798358
Kendrick did provide an insight into modern black America through tpab and if you don’t think that then I’m sorry to say but you’re a brainlet :)

Poptimism has been mainstream for a while now dumb fag op

>>11798358
isn't pop culture equal to western culture, or are we gonna pretend that there is something more to the west than the degeneracy

>>11798382
I really don't understand his disdain for Jazz when it was quite good in its time (compared to modern pop music at least), did he just hate blacks or what?

>>11798393

Why should anyone care about the whereabouts of the literal bottom-feaders of the western world?

Art is meat to be something to be looked up at. Something aspiring meat to embellished and dignify our hardships.

>>11798358
nobody cares about your artsy fartsy books and movies

media is for the masses not a bunch of autistic everythinghastobe2deep shut ins

>>11798390
>>11798405
These """people""" aren't Western. They are black or Jewish. They belong in Africa or the middle east. Try the redpill

>>11798420

The fact that some postmodernist jews and degenerates call this high art doesn t make it such.

>>11798423
Is it a suppository?

the triviality of pop has acted like a fetish on all sorts of aesthetic choices, sealing its dominance in international markets. Adolescents and the socially disadvantaged have gained so much influence that the aesthetic tact is now being directed from "low" to "high". This can be seen in the urban habitus, where coolness requires the right sneakers, not the noble leather shoe. It also shows in the body cult: While the muscle mass was once considered a proletarian or peasant status symbol, it has long been celebrated in bourgeois circles. The same is true of the tradition of tattoos, traces of which can be traced back to sailor and proletarian scenes, which are now celebrating their birth in the bourgeois mainstream. And the cultured offspring of the educated middle classes imitates the slang of the tough immigrant youth without accent.

And so the decadence takes rooths

>>11798358
>token black problems director
>token black problems rapper
>Bob Dylan
One of these is not like the other my friend

>>11798430
You either willingly take through as a syrup or unwillingly receive it as a a suppository

>>11798441
One of them doesn't qualify for the medium he is being celebrated in

>>11798441

Although he clearly wasn t a blatant illetrate like the other two, his work clearly wasn't deserving of a Nobel Prize

>>11798441
>mediocrity undeserving of award
>mediocrity undeserving of award
>mediocrity undeserving of award
They seem pretty alike.

>>11798461
Similar tendencies have been observed in architecture since the late 20th century. When Robert Venturi and Denise Scott Brown, in their book Learning from Las Vegas (1972), recommended that builders be inspired by the Californian shops, bars, and casinos, along with their playful, colorful signs, posters, and logos, this was an important one Impuls for the post and pop modern.

>>11798461
Today, the old elite culture, once protected and barricaded by spiritual and institutional walls, finds itself in an everyday competition for popularity and attention. Everywhere, the presence of pop is recorded and managed. If artists and curators, professors and artistic directors want to secure their support and their interpretive sovereignty (based on their elitist status), they have to orient themselves downwards - towards pop and younger generations. No wonder, big museums are tearing around pop stars (the Rolling Stones were themed in 2016 at the Saatchi Gallery in London, the Grand Palais in Paris has a Michael Jackson show); Philharmonics also open their halls for rock and pop. No wonder, too, that prestigious institutions are trying to use their influence to plant their trophies in the lowlands of Pop, hoping to save the traditional claims and inventories for the future.

>>11798461
In contrast to bourgeois high culture, Pop is not bound to a disinterested, timeless beauty. Where noble art requires abandonment and sublimation, pop celebrates the senses in the here and now. And it also serves lower instincts. In itself, the present would often be glad for an aesthetic regulative, impulses of good old genius and artistic nonconformity - no matter from which environment. But the few who defy fashions and masses are less elitist than esoteric, sectarian or simply touching. In populist times, the small number does not prove to be a leading exclusivity, but a handicap.

>>11798358
literally everything modern is trash, and everything post 50s is subhuman

>>11798513
Every post 90s is a sub animal

Outside
>Nolan
>Villeneuve

>>11798358
This isn't literature related, please take your /pol/posting to /pol/.

Also Spike Lee at the top of his game made some brilliant films so it's good to see another film of his get that same recognition.

Bob Dylan made sense to an extent for winning the literature prize due to the variety and versatility of his songwriting, with allusions to literature, philosophy, art, community, politics, etc and his vocal flow being that which could make a rapper blush without losing the sense of rhythm in his music. It's not print and I get that it's questionable, but with /lit/ always asking what the /lit/ equivalent of this or that form of media is (anime, video games and movies always pop up on /lit/ under this kind of question), it's clear the Nobel Prize committee thought the /lit/ equivalent of music would be Bob Dylan.

Kendrick's good but not Pulitzer prize good, but still I'm happy for him to have won that and I hope it helps further his career or at least help inspire other people to achieve high.

>>11798383
this

>>11798408
"What Adorno particularly despises is what he calls ‘light entertainment’ haloed with pretensions to be autonomous art,and his case studies are commercial European and American ‘jazz’, radio-programmed classical music and the televisation of realist novels (Adorno, 1991: 29–60, 128–77). Jazz must be rendered in mocking quotation marks because Adorno‘frequently classifies all nonclassical music as jazz, evidently based on the dubious belief that jazz was the dominant and paradigmatic form of popular music in his lifetime’ (Grackyk,1992: 527).When he does talk about jazz as we know it,Adorno is mainly concerned with the swing era of jazz (approximately 1933–41), during which even his critics accept that ‘at that time most popular bands relied on stock arrangements and downplayed genuine improvisation’ (Grackyk, 1992: 533; corroborated by Robinson, 1994: 16). Nonetheless, Charlie Parker (pre-swing), Billie Holliday (swing) and Miles Davis (post-swing) are all important jazz artists inAdorno’s lifetime,who cannot possibly be accused of musical conformity,and with whom he never came to grips. Most probably the reason for this is that Adorno in exile on the wrong side of the United States and then in return to Germany relied extensively on two books by American commentators that were written in the 1930s from a limited musicological perspective (Harding, 1995: 131). But the fact remains that Adorno never learnt to listen to jazz, falsely homogenised the movement and then ignorantly wrote it off as a whole. Indeed, even though Adorno, using the vocabulary of his own day and not ours, recognises‘the authentic Negro elements in jazz’, he thinks that ‘everything unruly in it was from the very beginning integrated into a strict scheme’ by white musical entrepreneurs (Adorno, 1967a: 122). Thus, he ethnocentrically neglects the contribution of anti-commercial, resistant forms of African-American popular culture to the jazz movement, in which context his critique of what he supposes is tokenism is liable to bleed into a sort of cultural denigration that Adorno would certainly not have consciously endorsed (see Harding,1995: 137–38)."

>>11798498
Loving this reply. May I ask what you majored in?

>>11798441
Maybe you're right about Spike Lee, but his best films Malcolm X, Do The Right Thing and 25th Hour are pretty good Hollywood productions where he explores ethics. With Malcolm X he depicted Malcolm at some of his worst times and how he changed to accept Whitey and dismiss nation of Islam as fake Islam.

With Do The Right Thing it's very clear that the right thing isn't done in the end and that, from multiple perspectives, one person's right is another person's wrong. It's pretty simple but it's a well crafted and fun movie.

25th Hour was just a good "man, fuck this shit, society got me down n shiet" movie but from the perspective of whitey.

I for one am ready for the new generation of african-australian artists

The only good thing worthy of enjoyment is post-war 1950s Japanese cinema and even then if it's not Yasujiro Ozu you best go home, motherfucker.

>>11798543
this thread is about pop culture and western culture you retarded fucking weeb

>>11798543
more like Ozzzzu, at least name a good director next time cretin

>>11798547
Western culture is dead, make way for post-war Japanese cinema, faggot.

>>11798550
I know, that's why I watch so many samurai films

>>11798549
> he doesn't aspire for good family values and a gentle demeanour in life delivered in the form of light slice of life humour followed by subtle tragedy

How about next time you respect your grandparents and your mother, pleb

Revert music to 432hz

>>11798557
revert video gaems to 16bit

>>11798555
Which ones do you like, anon?

>>11798556
A lot of assumptions to be made in one post but Ozu is a bore no matter how you put it, he made one masterpiece shame about the rest

next time name a good Japanese director since the era you mentioned has plenty to offer

>>11798560
That's not how it works, weakling

>>11798561
mainly Kurosawa
>Ran
>Seven Samurai
>Harakiri
>Kagemusha
>Yojimbo
>Sword of Doom
>Samurai Rebellion

>>11798583
>No Rashomon
I am disappoint

>>11798589
what else is good, weeb?

>>11798566
I disagree about Ozu being boring but honestly it's fine if you think so. I think most of his films are stand outs, and even his lesser known silent films have a lot to offer in terms of charm, humour and positive ideology. What is it about Ozu you find boring, anon? Is his pacing in his films too slow or is it usually just subject matters that don't interest you? Genuinely curious.

Also I like Kon Ichikawa, Masaki Kobayashi (watched his Human Condition trilogy very recently, would recommend), obviously Kurosawa (I Live In Fear is a great post-war film that reflected Kurosawa's own personal fears), Kenji Mizoguchi and I have a soft spot for Honda's original Godzilla and the commentary on the negatives of atomic warfare.

>>11798583
Very nice. I love Harakiri too, and I watched Sword of Doom earlier this year as the criterion Blu-ray came out in the UK last year. Nice picks.

>>11798589
>>11798595
I agree Rashomon is also great. Would recommend the Lone Wolf and Cub series of films if you're up for something a little pulpier but altogether just as satisfying and beautiful.

I'm also a sucker for Meiko Kaji so Lady Snowblood 1 and 2 need reccing. 2 is a little rougher around the edges than 1 and it forces in some political commentary, but I don't think it's as bad as people say it is. Still makes for a very enjoyable double bill.

>>11798589
would you really consider that a samurai film? It has some elements but it's not in the same vain as the others
>>11798595
samurai
lone wolf and cub
three outlaw samurai
lady snowblood
13 assassins
twilight samurai
kill
goyokin
samurai assassin
47 ronin (mizoguchi version)
tale of zatoichi
>>11798600
I liked some of his stuff like I was born but or Good morning which is cute but in general he just does not appeal to me as some of the other greats from Japan

>>11798419
Any representation of a socio-political time period, no matter what the subject matter, if written well, will be nominated for a prestigious prize due to the nature of relevancy and the depiction of world events into some sort of art format. To disregard the actual history behind TPAB is to disregard history, and that is the reason for his Pulitzer Prize.

Of course, they also need to keep the prize relevant, adhere to the lower classes and minorities, and further place the importance of literature, in all formats, firmly back into the public eye (instead of just consuming and never being educated, see consumer=npc).

>>11798616
I Was Born is sweet and Good Morning reminded me a little of some Tati films, just that sweet gentle pacing, light humour and calm colour palette. Fair enough though, anon, it's cool if Ozu isn't your cup of tea, I've met a few people who feel similar to you about him and that's fine.

Of course pop has usurped higher culture, if for no other reason than such culture died many years ago. I have long intuited that our "culture" is worthless, disgraceful, despicable, &c &c, and I place much of the blame for the depression of my youth on the death of this culture. A fifteen year old cannot be burdened with "figuring out life".

Here's an epiphany: when was the last time you heard the word "virtue" in the popular conscious!

It's all so tiring....

What the fuck is the point anymore! Buy our truck, mate! Buy our AXE® Deodorants, boy! You want to be chad, r-right!! Buy our insurance, you little insecure faggot; buy our new television, faggot; what else are you going to do with pathetic little life! Sit down! Plug in! Watch! Listen to this song about two people breaking up--what does it matter that you'll never have a gf! Listen to this one too, and that one. Play our game, little boy. Don't you dream of being a gladiator--what does it matter that it's a mere dream. What, you dont feel right? Is it your stomach? Here, take this pill. Take these drugs, mate. Don't they make you feel giddy inside! Come on, crawl into our opium den! You can live here, with us! What's that, anon, you studied philosophy in school--do you want to go to law school? What's that, you dont want to go to school anymore! What's that, you dont want to do anything anymore! Why are you tired, anon. Here, these pills will help...

>>11798358
Kendrick's Pulitzer is by far the most embarrassing of the bunch next to Spike Lee's pandering which finally paid off

>>11798536
Commerce, currently studying for the civil servant s school entrance examination.

>>11798632
Who are you favorite directors?

>>11798633
U-uh, sir, you should, er, may-maybe wr-write that into a n-n-novel or something

>>11798658
I do write, but only for myself. Can you recommend books for similar feels, anon?

>>11798540
The Malcolm X movie is blatant propaganda. He does not portray Malcolm at his worst times, like when he was a homosexual prostitute or impotent or strung out on drugs. He portrays him as a Ben Shapiro-like noble savage who owns every opponent he faces with logic and facts and always keeps cool under pressure. As propaganda it's interesting and well-made, but it's extremely foolish to pretend it is even remotely realistic

Do the Right Thing very clearly implies that the right thing did happen. Lee has gone on record numerous times as stating that not only the right thing happen, but to believe an employee shouldn't destroy his employer's store and extort payment from him after doing so is morally equivalent to murder. There is no nuance or controversy about this film, at least not in mainstream film and American culture--everything boils down to brown people = right, white people = wrong. It's basically a moral treatise on why it is okay to demand the subservience of white people.

>>11798635
Cannes has been a joke for decades, they gave the Palme d'Or to Michael fucking Moore. In the past they balanced their political pandering with periods of "okay, now we're serious about movies again," but these periods are becoming briefer and more blurred

There's no such thing as the west, and the only difference between high and low culture is the predilections of a few rich influencers.

This belongs on /pol/.

>>11798682
Apparently Cannes' audience is rather vocal in manifesting their disliking for a projection. Some going as far as exiting the room before the movie ends and or shouting your movie is shit to the director.

Guess that they didn t dare because he was black.

>>11798700
The film is pretty vocal about anti-Trump which is why it's getting the acclaim it is, it literary ends with a youtube clip from that Charlottesville gathering

>>11798695
The west is synonymous to the White Christian World.

>>11798657
Akira Kurosawa
Francois Truffaut
Bela Tarr
Yasujiro Ozu
Ingmar Bergman
Alfred Hitchcock
Rainer Werner Fassbinder
Robert Bresson
Satyajit Ray
Jean Pierre Melville
Masaki Kobayashi
Mike Leigh

>>11798707
Yes, but that's never been anything but a fringe retcon revisionism.

Either way, white Chistians are fucking insufferable, so if I saw one that needed a hand I would kick them down the well instead.

Good riddance.

Still belongs on /pol/.

>>11798717

Everything that isn t white isn t fully human so I d rather cope with these white religious zelots than with some brown animals.


As their history shows they never really amounted to nothing

>>11798717
I wonder if you're as intimidating in person as you are on forums dedicated to japanese cartoons.

>>11798393
I listened to some Kendrick Lamar and it was some generic trash, even worse than 2Pac or Nas.
High school-tier insight at best.
I'm sure it sounds deep if you're 14, but come the fuck on.

>>11798743
dude Kendrick is a literal poet and best songwriter in hip hop in these times (high bar indeed) /s

DAMN: only proved how afraid people are of criticizing him and everybody was dickriding him, and these are the same people who didn't like TPAB but now said that he was "on some real shit" with DAMN.

>>11798358
Eh, it was the Pulitzer for Prize for Music, not THE Pulitzer Prize. There's nothing wrong with Blakklansman. But yeah, the Bob Dylan thing was absolutely retarded.

>>11798743
This. Not a single rapper has reached post puberty levels of knowledge. They might be intellectualylimited limited due to them beeing black.

>>11798695

>>11798738
I guess it depends on how close you stand to wells and how afraid you are of words. I'm probably bigger and in better shape than you if you're an above average person.

>>11798736
Thanks for providing evidence for my point. Too bad you don't stand by your beliefs in public or someone would have beat some sense into you already.

>>11798717
>what is the Roman Empire
>what is the Roman Catholic Church
>what is Europe
giga retard post 2bh

Have you faggots infected every board?

>>11798763
I m sure that there was nothing wrong with the other selected movies either

>>11798531
Good post
I think Adorno literally just didn’t know there was good jazz because he didn’t seek it out, which admittedly was incredibly difficult back then

>>11798743
I’m talking tpab, the most critically acclaimed album of the decade in hip hop (maybe of this millennia). >>11798761
Damn was probably his worst project. He went pop, which says a lot. >>11798623
Read this comment. I’m not saying Kendrick is hugely poetic or anything, I’m saying he is fantastic in encaptulating the ideologies of a race/class. That is the single most important point in regards to tbap being extremely important for hip hop culture, and even art in general.

Again, representation of a socio-political period in any art form, in a critically acclaimed way, will be given a Pulitzer Prize, or, at the very least, be recognised as a defining moment in that period.

If you can’t see that, and reduce tpab to high school tier, then you’re actually beyond help.

>>11798779

What make you think that I don t stand by my beliefs in public?

I threat your people like I threat agressive dogs: by keeping away and actively advocating for your ban.

>>11798783
So you just hate it because there's black folks in it? It's not even preachy about "muh nigger issues", so I don't understand your dislike.

>>11798800
I'm white, and I would attack you if you said something like that around me.

You belong in the ground or in a cage, and most people can see that. That's how I know you don't stand by them in public.

>>11798803

That fact that there is nothing wrong with it doesnt mean that it s worthy of the prize.

The fact is that it didnt won thanks to its qualities but tanks to it s virtue signalling.

>>11798736
Chances are, your grandkids won’t be white. Feelsbad to have sub human children :)
Ask funny how you wouldn’t ever say that to a black man, not to his face. It says a lot about the insecurities of a (white) man when he solely writes on boards for fear of his own race disregarding him

>>11798811

I m 2m tall and 100 kg soo you re gonna get trashed.

>>11798821
I mean it's not like it won the Palme d'or, it won the jury prize, basically the participation/consolation prize.

>>11798829
I'm bigger than you, and I would just take a bat to your skull anyway.

>>11798557

>>11798797
>most critically acclaimed album of the decade in hip hop (maybe of this millennia)

since you gave my post a (you) I feel the need to repeat the fact that it's not a hard thing to achieve if you look at the landscape of the genre in general

I will say the album has good production and live instrumentals which sets it apart from others in the first place

>>11798833

Not really you re most likely a 1 60m insecure manlet

>watching films that aren't documentaries
Ishiggydiggy

>>11798843
Just spout your shit in public instead of on your Nazi book club and see where it gets you.

You won't, because you're a coward.

>>11798358
I seriously don't understand how can you give the major Literature prize to a singer. Call me old fashioned.

>>11798717
actual subhuman

>>11798822
poor bait

>>11798853
>watching documentaries
top pseud

>>11798864
kys

>>11798864
True though :)

>>11798874
>:)

>>11798856

>I m from Chemnitz

People no longer care...

>>11798878
Why don't you test that theory?
Go to a coffee shop or pub nearby and loudly start saying your racist bullshit into your phone as if you were having a conversation and see what happens.

>>11798853
Grey Gardens is hands down one of my favourite films.

The Act of Killing, Look of Silence, My Best Fiend, Man On Wire, Grizzly Man, Don't Look Back, Burroughs, Iris, Cave of Forgotten Dreams, Gimme Shelter, Dear Zachary are all great imo. Always wanted to see The Maysles' Salesman but it's not been available in the UK for a while.

>>11798832
Second prize at the most prestigious film festival on the planet is not nothing

there are hundreds of thousands of filmmakers around the planet who would kill for that recognition, and probably are more deserving

but handing out affirmative action trophies to brand name Controversial (TM) goodthinkers is a much cheaper and easier way to receive plaudits from the media-academic complex

>>11798736
You can't even spell.

>>11798887
So just like crazy sjw.

>10 000years and you people still dont understand what it means to be a civilized individual.

>>11798913
Kek and true

If you don’t tell the nigs on a daily basis on 4chan that they’re subhuman, are you really fulfilling your incel goal of continuing white supremacy?!?? But fr, any Inuit supremacists??????? Link me

>>11798707
Much culture!

>>11798822
>grandkids
>implying

>>11798928

Better still

>>11798797
>I’m talking tpab, the most critically acclaimed album of the decade in hip hop
It's still just rap, though. And not even some obscure artsy rap where you have freedom to be creative, but generic pop rap. Which means pretty much all that matters for success is having good beats and a certain charisma.
I don't care about this guy, though. My problem is with Pulitzer Prize stooping to this level out of either laziness or some other reasons that have nothing to do with actual artistic merit.

>>11798887
>I'm a proud violent defender of the status quo, but not like a cop
you're a cop

>>11798897
So no film made by a black director, however good, is it going to be enough for you?

>>11798811
Bruh

>>11798948

Not a single black director up to this day has been good enough to outdo all of its white contemporaries.

>just a fact
>doesnt mean there wouldnt be
>doesnt mean all white directors are good

>>11798797
TBAP is so boring, and lol if you think he didn't have ghostwriters. It's as manufactured as Beyonce or any of that shit.

please God, open up Yellowstone and burn it all down

Amen

>>11798978
If we loose this battle I ll do it myself

>>11798557
is it true that changing music format from 432hz to 440hz was made so that we don't enjoy it as much?

>>11798531
Sort of related, some of the points in this video are convoluted and strung out, but I think that the author is on to a real phenomenon by the people who are on the fringe and outside what is 'now'. Some interesting points on Adorno as well, the whole 'poetry after aucshwitz' thing.

https://youtu.be/_0FkYOBwtis

> What the fuck is the point anymore! Buy our truck, mate! Buy our AXE® Deodorants, boy! You want to be chad, r-right!! Buy our insurance, you little insecure faggot; buy our new television, faggot; what else are you going to do with pathetic little life! Sit down! Plug in! Watch! Listen to this song about two people breaking up--what does it matter that you'll never have a gf! Listen to this one too, and that one. Play our game, little boy. Don't you dream of being a gladiator--what does it matter that it's a mere dream. What, you dont feel right? Is it your stomach? Here, take this pill. Take these drugs, mate. Don't they make you feel giddy inside! Come on, crawl into our opium den! You can live here, with us! What's that, anon, you studied philosophy in school--do you want to go to law school? What's that, you dont want to go to school anymore! What's that, you dont want to do anything anymore! Why are you tired, anon. Here, these pills will help...

>>11798427
I don't think they are saying a word about "high art". These awards have been about easily accessible pop culture for as long as you've been alive. I don't understand why it's newsworthy all of the sudden.

>>11798963
Steve McQueen is as good as his contemporaries. Hunger and Shame are great films. I don't think anyone can really "outdo" anyone else, this is art we're talking, not the Olympics.

>>11798942
How is it difficult to understand? Like I’ve said, prizes similar to this fall under public interest and therefore, with hip hop being the most prominent music genre of the past 2 years, it makes sense to use Kendrick to further the prize’s interest from the general public. While I have been using critically acclaimed and other buzzwords as an excuse, I don’t agree that a rap album should get one (at least, not in the current state). Success=prizes because that’s the best way for more people to want those prizes.

>>11798972
Who said he didn’t? I have literally never made that statement. I’m saying the message in it resonates with black people and because black people are the most vocal minority, the prize will be more open to giving it to a black artist, to, again, gain popularity for that prize.
There’s a reason Kanye and Beyoncé and so many mundane artists get prizes for their works, especially in music, and that’s because of popularity. The sooner you realise that, the better.

>>11799055
>Steve McQueen is as good as his contemporaries
he's as good as Nolan, Villenueve, Inarritu, Chazelle and of course Kevin Smith

you'll burn all right

>>11798440

... wow

>>11799084
I didn't know the Kendrick album was all that hot on the streets, was it? I didn't think about it again after like 3 listens and music criticism has always been cancer to be ignored.

>>11798540
>With Do The Right Thing it's very clear that the right thing isn't done in the end
goddamn spike, you're a genius

>>11798795
there is no good jazz

>>11799168
Only fascist bossa nova

>>11798419
>Art is meant to be....

o rly?

get back to me after reading this

>>11798779
Na you're an noodly incel for sure.

>>11799226
Watch Why beauty matters by Roger Scruton first
https://youtu.be/bHw4MMEnmpc

>>11798524
>outside
PTA and Linklater are the only american auteurs

Then Pulitzer was established and named for Joseph Pulitzer, the father of hack journalism. The prize is inherently worthless, the only thing it measures is which Columbia Journalism school grad is getting the most handjobs from other Columbia Journalism School grads.
That said, their statement on Kendrick Lamar winning was hilarious. They cited his use of street vernacular to speak about social issues, as if he were even the first rapper to say “living in the ghetto sucks” and “nigga.”
Bob Dylan winning the Nobel is equally disingenuous. Even for people who like his lyrics his strongest point is allusion. Mentioning Ezra Pound in Desolation Row does not make one into Ezra Pound. The man is a writer of pop songs disguised as folk songs - that’s why everybody freaked out when he went electric. It turned Bob Dylan from authentic working man’s folk tunes (lol) into radio-friendly songs for people who went to college. I for one hope these awards accelerate the process and give the Nobel to Gucci Mane, and the Pulitzer to whoever came up with that “Beat the Meatles” headline.

I know that it's here, I can sense it in my feet

>>11799775
You clearly haven't listened to more than 10 dylan songs

>>11798358
Is this real? Are you telling me the truth? Please, you're pulling my leg...right?

>>11798393
Please, find a window on the 10th floor of a building, and run full-blast through it.

>>11798423
That is DEFINITELY the bluepill.

>>11800092
I gave up on Dylan after I finished every 60's album of his and found nothing worth listening to again.

>western culture
t. american appropriating european culture

>>11798358
>Grand Prix de Cannes
first of all the Palme d'Or is the most prestigious award at the Cannes film fest, secondly blakkk was based on actual events, obviously relevant to Western Culture and also enough to leverage its merit at an awards ceremony.

its also worth noting that the last nobel prize laureate was kazuo ishiguro, something /pol/ conviniently and consistently never brings up

>>11798397
Yeah, but the recent brand that declares something a masterpiece because it was made to appeal to teenage girls is only a few years old.

>>11798531
got' DAYMN

>>11798358
prizes and awards are in and of themselves degenerate. try looking back a few thousand years instead of a few decades, brainlet

>>11798441
Bob Dylan represents the final surrender of folk music, and with it all folk culture, to popular music. His body of work is perhaps the most disgusting.

At least Spike Lee has a little bit of artistic talent.

>>11798770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw8bMDRld8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m442ajPbQkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_QLnENB8Zk

There's good music out there, but the ((cultural industry)) will never let it out there.

>>11798531
>light entertainment’ haloed with pretensions to be autonomous art,
This is probably the greatest description of later jazz that I’ve ever read. I wonder why the writer fails to see just how well it fits people like Davis and Holliday.

>>11800811
bob dylan sort of killed poetry by making the distinction between it and pop lyrics kind of blurry

the pop single is probably the main religious barometer of our time, it is the form in which our culture conducts mass, the tribal ceremony, etc. the other one is blockbuster movies but these are less ubiquitous

the emphasis on superhero movies shows how deluded we are, entranced by the myth of progress and the power of the individual, and the music is based either on aggression or drug or lust fueled catharsis. Spiritually speaking, things are not very good, and steadily declining, which is reflected in the social dysfunction, below replacement birth rates, and mass immigration. Dying civilization kept barely afloat by the insane advances in technology of the modern era.

>>11800875
> he emphasis on superhero movies shows how deluded we are, entranced by the myth of progress and the power of the individual,
I think these flicks have a very different purpose. Their revival occurred because the comforted Americans after 9/11. The more recent ones (starting with Nolan’s) trilogy have been advertisements for American led global capitalism and American military intervention.

>>11800968
that's because the reigning 'progressive' spirit has happily married capitalism and military imperialism. Witness the 'left' wanting to invade Syria and Russia while fretting about the feelings of transgendered and black people. It's a colossal meme

>>11800980
I don’t think it’s married to capitalism so much as it’s the technological advancements of the Information Age have produced it.

>somehow more degenerate than the middle ages where you would be slain just walking down the road

>/pol/ bait thread
>200 posts

/lit/ is dead

>>11801011
Because that is impossible today, right?

I promise you, the people here who celebrate Kendrick have not read poetry - hell, even Houellebecq's poetry is more deserving. Btw I do actually like Kendrick, but his work is not literary, and his complaining of mah black problems is silly and artificial.

>>11801029
At an astronomically smaller scale

What is degenerate about hip hop? That they sing about drug use? Why would listening to it be degenerate? You guys love books like Lolita and the Iliad.

>>11801084

Hip hop is what an avredge ape would compose if it could.

>pop culture is the most popular

WOAH

>>11798358
Did GR deserve the Nebula?

>>11800845
No

>>11801101
Except it isn't. Project harder

>>11798358
Dont you love the free market? Then fucking deal with it. Capitalist culture will only get worse as time goes on. Just dont Blame it on fucking white genocide

>>11798393
He's just an elevated mumble rapper. There are better rappers in the game. I don't understand why some think he's some kind of Messiah.

>>11801314
It's like the pull of Slannesh. Xhe sucks you in with temptations, then keeps you there with slowly building hits of pleasure and degeneracy.

Soon the pursuit of sensuous gratification in art and music becomes almost cannibalistic, Sadistic in the classical sense, further pushing to greater extremes of sensory derangement like Wolf of Wallstreet.

It's kind of fun actually, perhaps even not all that bad. But it can and will destroy some who have no off switch.

>>11798527
Spike Lee has made 2 good films. Blackklansman and Do the Right Thing. Malcolm X is saturated Black culture bullshit. The Alex Haley book it's based on is much better.

>>11801323
he's not really mumble rap at all. I liked the Section 80 tape but everything since then has been kind of weak. A few good songs, like Money Trees and Cartoons and Cereal, but those are good because of the beat and the featured rapper, not becuse of him. I get that he perfectly ticks off the boxes necessary to appeal to mainstream culture but he's just annoying and boring. Id rather listen even to meme rap like 69 and xxx than him

This is an absolute boomer sentiment but the other day i accidentally played some Nas song from the mid90s and was struck by just how far that genre has declined in terms of rapping ability. It's not really about rapping anymore, it's about being a drugged up zombie mumbling about xanax, i get this, but it's crazy the transformation.

>>11801323
He’s not at all. He’s an elevated backpack rapper. Jeez, the amount of people who try to contribute when they have nothing to include and just spout their own opinions is incredible.

>>11801348
Maybe mumble rap isn't the right term. I don't care about having the right words for it. But his delivery is very drawly and imprecise, maybe he's just high when he's in the recording booth.

90s was honestly the peak of hip hop. There was still a time before it was commercialized and it had a rawness to it that is less prevalent these days, with face-tattooed hipster white dudes with private school educations or actual clowns becoming popular rappers and with the proliferation of soundcloud rap.

Combine that with the fact that much rap sucks and it's hard to believe that the medium is as popular as it is. Or maybe it's the opposite. Teeny bopper rappers appealing to teeny boppers.

>>11801348
That’s because people are becoming more desensitised to the past and are losing their own culture. You really think most black men know anything beyond what they hear, read, watch on tv? Fuck no, the average nig just smokes and does the odd bit of work while chasing tail. Black people spout the same rhetoric of yesteryear but they haven’t experienced anything true for 20 years. What people see as revolutionary - in terms of rap, Kendrick etc - is something that has been spoken about a hundred times before with actual meaning. This generation have grown up softer, more knowledgeable, but, overall, more entitled, and this is what causes the sentiment of blacks in the western world.

>>11800875
>the pop single is probably the main religious barometer of our time
And I suppose to you it has replaced Ezra Pound and T.S. Elliott. "High culture" has never existed in the capacity that you think it has.

>>11801380
i know it's really autistic to think about pop culture in game theory terms but i think we are witnessing 'defect-defect' gradually dominating everything which translates to these kids affecting not giving a shit about anything or being violent, but since most of them arent actual cold gangsters it creates all this almost emo stuff to contend with the alienation and hostility prevalent in culture.

YOu have people that subvert this paradigm too, like Drake, who tries incredibly hard at everything but eventually just took over nonetheless.

If you don't recognize rap as /lit/ material you're a sad human.

>>11801389
It's not just about race though, the kids dont make that distinction the same way as adults do. When i was growing up we understood that we were different but we were also like a little multiracial tribe, the Other was the people not in our group, and we experienced society in the forms dictated by the pop music, mostly rap but rock and edm and whatever as well. The consumptin and production of music was literally almost the central thing our socializing was based on, followed by other tangents like graffiti and drugs and sex.

This is mass commodification of a few different subcultures, hiphop, some rock and rave, etc. which becomes cultural material for the bonding of the social circles of teenagers and young adults. Even crime like graffiti is commodifed into little paint stores where everyone is clear on the purpose of the paint,products made by large companies who know the ultimate end is some kid spraying a tag on his street corner.

>>11801420
cringe

>>11801431
It's basically poetry that rhymes

>>11801459
The most important part of poetry is not the rhyme, but meter.

>>11798423
The classical sculptures were Technicolor. You only value the cannon because it makes you feel smart and the analysis is already done for you. Art will drag uninspired fucks like you kicking and screaming until you die and are replaced by someone who thinks the art of today was great but the art of his day is degenerate.

>>11801470
the most important part of poetry is the prose :)

>>11801476

>>11801475
It seems untenable to me to say artforms dont degenerate. Like Bach---Schoenberg, i cannot understand that as primarily transformation. Let alone Bach=----The ROlling stones or what have you. And its not like I dont like the stuff we have today, i love lots of it, but there is this sense that something has been lost that I cant really shake.

>>11801470
yeah and rap has none of that ;)

>>11798440
>Adolescents and the socially disadvantaged have gained so much influence that the aesthetic tact is now being directed from "low" to "high".

I don't think tact is the right word there. Also maybe you see the celebration of low culture everywhere because high culture has escaped you.

>>11801487
The analysis. We don't have it yet because there hasn't been time and the diversity of expression makes it hard to keep up with. You want to feel like you like something because it is good but really it is good because you like it. Analysis of art transmutes shit into gold by giving people a way to defend their own taste (which is largely defined socially) lots of analysis has been done on classical music so it becomes impossible to criticize.

>>11801551
I know very little music theory though and am totally atomized, getting my music through the youtube recs system and reading wiki pages. listening to Handel is just an entirely different world than listening to like a Radiohead song or something. It seems immeasurably deeper, more 'sublime', while the pop song has greater expressive feeling in all but a few instances(Wagner's preludes or the 2nd movement of Ebethoven's 9th for example)

>>11798524
>Outside
>>Nolan
>>Villeneuve

literally the two most mediocre filmmakers working today, how embarrassing!

>>11801563
But Handel intentionally cultivated that feeling and I enjoy it don't get me wrong. Tchaikovsky is frivolous as fuck. If you look closely at anything it becomes sophitocated. I also do think there is more bad art these days but there is just way more art in general.

>>11798996
How could one ideology fall off so hard?
https://youtu.be/8qrriKcwvlY
Secondary question, how many of youleftists are over the age of 25?

>>11798531
>: Revisionist MetaPoetics

Millennial style joke:
Snoop Doggy Doggerel

>>11798540
>With Do The Right Thing it's very clear that the right thing isn't done in the end
But Sal did the right thing by paying Mookie his salary in spite of everything. Sal was the only noble character at the end.

>>11798383
This

>>11798423
>Christianity: Abrahamic faith. Appeared in the middle east, centers around a jewish individual, came from an older middle eastern religion
>Your numerals: Arabic. You only use roman for ceremonial shit because they're horrible for doing math.
>Your plates in your cabinet: Stoneware. Made in China.
>Your computer: Parts from everywhere.
>Your language: Germanic in the time beowulf was written, but now fully latinized, and better for it.
>Your blood: Probably more mixed than you think

Get over yourself pill bill vol. 2

>>11798358
yep
it's over

>>11798358
Fortunately for us all, such committees make themselves ridiculous by picks like that.

>>11798547
lol no it's a thinly veiled "grrr niggers haha epic" thread

>>11803613
T. earnestly listens to Anticon

>>11803683
okay, pol

>>11803613
I can’t exactly fault someone who feels that black commerciality is draining. But I personally think the Bob Dylan thing is by far the worst of all this.

>>11803777
Dude slug is a poet

>>11803777

4chan is a /pol/ dominion

>>11803613
You think if Taylor Swift won this award we'd be ok with it?
Stop being obsessed with the pol boogeyman.

>>11803903
It's all they have, the very phantasy of the Other their texts warned against.

>>11798383
>>>/lgbt/

>>11803903
>>11803912

Pol is right in acknowledging the wrongdoing but not in its pursuit to correct it by another one.

>>11798440
> where coolness requires the right sneakers, not the noble leather shoe. It also shows in the body cult: While the muscle mass was once considered a proletarian or peasant status symbol,it has long been celebrated in bourgeois circles
God I think I cringed myself out of existence

>>11798358
Popular culture was never good.

>WHITE GOOD
>BLACK BAD
Great thread, time to move on.

>>11798358
>Peak cultural degeneracy has been reached
Once you hit rock bottom, you can always dig deeper.

/pol/ is always right

>>11805836
Saddest words of tongue and pen are these.

>>11798440
*snap*

>>11798943
lol they actually are. volunteer cops to maintain an authoritarian repression of free speech, and they see themseleves as transgressive intellectuals lmfao

>>11798358
these were never respectable awards. sorry to disappoint. why u trust institutions to do thinking for u lol

>>11799055
I had no idea that guy was black, Shame is a top tier movie. 12 years a slave was nonsense of course, but that is to be expected from our current social climate

>>11801282
Holiday offers little more than your average crooner, and Davis was shallow at even his most experimental. The claims that these people produced some sort of transcendental art are almost as bad as when it's claimed that David Bowie, Prince, or Madonna did the same.

>>11799107
>Inarritu
is a hack par excellence

>>11798770
The Geto Boys with Scarface, Willie D and Bushwick Bill are /lit as fuck. Iceberg Slim levels of shameless niggotry that somehow managed to cross racial boundaries and encapsulate the experience of white collar office workers in 1998's Office Space. Die motherfuckers die motherfuckers still

>>11798408
Popular jazz in his day was often shitty romantic generic swing-like songs with a chick singing about walks in the moonlight while some minimal piano plays in the background, or cheesy stuff cheesily sung by a guy with some trumpets in the background, not the complex and challenging stuff you’re thinking of.

>>11806476
Only a foo would think that Coltrane's new age, drug-addled spiritualism or Sun Ra's comical afrocecntricism was any better.

>>11799226
No no no, he said, "Art is meat." And we are but aspiring meat reaching for beauty and dignity

>>11806290
t, triggered trumpfag incel

>>11798440
You have some interesting ideas there but you've stretched your vocabulary a little thin I think. And really? 'The noble leather shoe'? That might be the wettest, most university conservative society piece of shit phrase I've ever read

>>11798358
why did you fucks treat accolades seriously in the first place?

>>11806509
Wrong

>>11801078
Wrong.

>>11798358
it is impossible for man to exist in such terrible conditions

civil war soon

>>11798383
Please for the love of god GO BACK TO YOUR BOARD. Im sure you could make this same exact post there and have a discussion, why do you have to come here for it

>>11807201
Don't get me wrong, some of them were highly talented musicians, but their music doesn't offer anything of sufficient depth. The only reason they believe that it's better than something like prog rock (which is also trash) is that they've bought into the marketing that tells them it contains some sort of "soul." Jazz fans are among the biggest dupes in the world.

>>11808014
You have no idea what you are saying about.

>>11808079
I think you meant "talking". Also, jazz is trash. Good night to y'all.

>>11806270
I agree about Billy holiday, but if you think miles Davis was shallow you are tone deaf and out of your mind.

>>11808014
jazz does contain soul since when well done it's structured to resemble conversations back and forth between people, as opposed to the mechanical or natural sounds of other genres.

>>11808100
Musically illiterate

>>11808014
Just because you don't have the musical vocabulary to the understand it doesn't mean it doesn't have immense value. You have to understand that most of the people who appreciate this music at a deep level are themselves jazz musicians, and have spent much of their lives working towards the same goals as people like Coltrane, who played saxophone with a powerful obsession. I agree about prog rock though

>>11798441
All of them are propped up shills with no talent.

so boizz should i lighten up with some culture of industry or some dialectic of enlightenment ???

anyone has a 4chan chart for adorno reading?

>>11807312
Please remember the kind gentle things of love and innocence and childhood and remember that those are incompatible with civil wars in which children are made to butcher their parents and men are made to be conscripted as the ransom to buy their wives out of prostitution.

>>11798358
western culture (from being to having) is shit anyway. the transition into mere appearance is only a logical unfolding of an already shit culture.

go to the kpello if you want real, meaningful, intelligent and soulful culture

>>11798358
For what it's worth, the grand prix isn't the biggest prize, the palme d'or went to a japanese movie that merited it desu. I saw it at Telluride.

Cannes has always had weird picks for 2nd place, but the palme d'or remains pure.

Shoplifters is pretty good desu, almost as good as the director's previous Still Walking.
Also winter sleep was pretty good. The palme d'or has always been hit or miss since MASH won in 1970. For every Tin Drum there is a Taxi Driver; for every All That Jazz there is a Sex, Lies, and Videotapes; for every Taste of Cherry there is a Pulp Fiction; the 2000s were a dark age for Cannes but it's been getting better.

>>11801475

>he doesn't believe in criteria by which works of art can be judged to be superior to other works of art

Leave this place

>>11808322
>every single movie you listed is good
I'm confused

>Pop culture has won the fight against western culture.
look, I know you're fully convinced that all culture is going to disappear overnight and we're all going to be stripped of everything that makes us unique by force and yada yada yada, but that statement makes no sense at all.

and I understand where you're coming from, but you have to realize (first of all, pop culture is defined by being transitory and) that the centuries of history and cultural development that brought us to this point in time can't be erased or locked away somewhere, at least not for long. cheer up.

>>11802808
>if you use something from another country then you also have to support mass immigration for some reason lmao

>>11808343
>>every single movie you listed is good

anon I...

>>11798665
The diaries of Goebbels. Especially before the war.

>>11801078
Go to baltimore at midnight and tell us how small that percentage is.

>boom bap negro beats
>art

go back to fucking r*ddit, stay there

>>11798897
>the most prestigious film festival
either venice or the berlinale

>>11798423
You're Indo-European. You belong in the Caucasus.

>>11798358
No. Capitalism did.
>ah shit, nobody cares about our awards anymore
>let's try honoring the hippity hop

>>11808423
Taxi Driver is the GOAT.

>>11808789
Nobody was disputing that

>>11798423

>>11808322
>The palme d'or has always been hit or miss since MASH won in 1970. For every Tin Drum there is a Taxi Driver
This is saying that Tin Drum is a hit and Taxi Driver is a miss because they fit respectively into "hit and miss" in the previous sentence.

>>11798358
You don't care about western culture, you don't care about art, you don't care about the society. What you really care about is power. You long for a return to those days when a select few people cracked the whip over everybody else. Of course, art was "higher" back then, but only because they were the only ones who even had access to it and the artists were all eager to make them feel good.
What you're too dumb to realize is that most likely you would have been cursed to be a literal pleb for the entirety of your miserable, subdued life.
So just shut up and admit that those things are a side effect to your being able to write such things freely.

>>11808848
It's your mama's fault for letting you run your dumb mouth without slapping the fuck out of it.

>>11798419
>meat
>meat

What did he mean by this

>>11808806
>>11808806
thanks captain obvious

>>11808135
You don’t know it, but you’ve expressed the failings of jazz. Nearly all fondness is propped up by delusion. In the case of these musicians it’s that they’re channeling the soul of some great through their playing. If they’re channeling anything at all, it’s the red light districts that spawned this music.

For all Coltrane’s passion, he was never able to achieve greater spiritual depth than your average Yes song. Both have the same new age sensibilities. Kieth Emerson killed himself because he could no longer play, but such an obsession never produced any good music.

>>11809356
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Keep dicksucking Adorno.
I bet you think only classical musical is worthy.

>>11809403
Certainly not, but any type of popular music to originate in the US is as far from worthy as is possible.

>>11798419
>art in meant to...
aaand you're wrong.

>>11809467
You don't nothing about jazz or music in general.

Why /lit/ hate jazz? I thought this board would have better musical taste than /mu/.

>>11809515
I know quite a bit about jazz and it’s listeners. Your understanding of music is really superficial and misguided at best.

>>11809571
Projecting.
Stop treating jazz like it's 1920.

>>11809539
It's just some retard who's incapable of original thought, so instead copied and pasted his opinions about music from a mid 20th centrury critical theorist.

>>11798797
>the most critically acclaimed album of the decade in hip hop
MBDTF was this decade

>>11809595
So you actually only know one disputable trivia fact about jazz

>>11809588
Jazz from the 50s and 60s is far worse than the Jazz from the 20s. It features all of the worst qualities of that earlier music with artistic pretensions. My complaints have been about people like Davis, Coltrane, and Sun are and not people like Armstrong and Ellington. Don’t get me started on the abortion that is fusion.

>>11809605
You just say you don't like jazz and stop posturing.

>>11809605
Duke Ellington is sort of based, I almost like that sort of Jazz

>>11809616
It’s not that I don’t like it, but that I think it’s completely indefensible and that the praise it’s received is almost entirely nonsensical.
>>11809624
Ellington is the only jazz musician I can can come close to tolerating. The man clearly had a a great vision that was marred by the limitations of his genre.

>>11809601
That was my first reply to you, dumbass.

I'm not talking about jazz with a retard.

>>11809636
You just say you don't like jazz. You didn´t give a reason yet why it is indefensible.

>>11809636
Some of Ellington's music is almost like pleb tier classical music, like Ravel or something.

>>11809665
I think between it’s suffocating commerciality (even the Colemans, Dolphins and Minguses of the world had remarkable commercial sensibilities) the social/artistic decay it inspired, there really is no way to meaningfully defend it without appealing to its musicianship alone. Once one begins to look past the most superficial aspects of it, it becomes impossible to defend.

There are a few people who seem to be arguing that to have something against these prize recipients is to be racist, or /pol/. Is this actually genuine criticism? For those who claim it is, do you really not see a change in the criteria that led to these recipients? Do you really not see how previous recipients can be different from the ones quoted in OP, so much so that any disagreement can only be the product of racism?

For those who do see differences, any clue as to whether the juries are any different from those of the past? Or are they the same and their decisions are merely the result of commercial/social/political pressures? Or is it that the sheer volume of products of pop-culture is higher than ever before and the borders between them and auteurship have been eroded significantly compared to the past?

It's not that I held these awards in cosmic regard, but to not see these current recipients as outliers is deliberate blindness to me.

>>11809706(you)
Again no good reasons.

>>11809722
>>>/pol/
Over there everyone gets an iron cross just for being white, snowflake

>>11809722
You should look up what movies have won the Grand Prix de Cannes

Spike Lee is certainly not peak cultural degeneracy

>>11809761
his post is not even pol
t. actual pol

>>11809761
okay mate, well done
>>11809771
I'm not arguing there isn't a distinction between the Palm d'Or and the Grand Prix. Haven't looked at recipients of the latter in detail, so you might be right. There may not be as much of a distinction between the latest Lee and recipients of the past.

Kendrick though? Whatever you think of Pulitzer, you can't say that one is like the others. Also, Dylan? With the latter, it's more a question of form. I guess you could invoke the Bengali dude who won it in the early 1900s, but even he wasn't exclusively a musical lyricist.

At the end of the day Bjork is the only actual artist worth listening to.

>>11809706
What artistic decay?

>>11798393
award was for damn. tho

Jazz Btfo

>>11810336
Imagine unironically having opinions this

>>11810346
i was just proving how retarded some jazz haters are in this thread

>>11810360
I’ve been the guy bashing Jazz this whole thread, and even I’m willing to admit that that guy is retarded.

>>11810411
>>I’ve been the guy bashing Jazz this whole thread, and even I’m willing to admit that that guy is retarded.
You are too.

>>11810428
My argument comes from an entirely different place, and I have nothing against aave.

>>11810487
What argument? Generalizing the genre?

>>11798761
>/s
return to reddit and stay off my board

>>11798390
No, this is the "liberation" left after the french leftists convinced us to deconstruct our culture and social structures

>>11798358
Kendrick Lamar was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I was genuinely surprised he won that, even though I probably shouldn't have been given the current political climate.