/lit/ - Literature

The noumena is fanged.

>>11773222
How so?

The amphetamine was laced

>>11773235
t. sentient capital

>Marx has one great thought: the means of production socially impose themselves as an effective imperative.

>Defenders of the market — the Austrians most prominently — have sided with economics against Marx, by denying that the autonomization of capital is a phenomenon to be recognized. When Marx describes the bourgeoisie as robotic organs of self-directing capital, the old liberal response has been to defend the humanity and agency of the economically executive class, as expressed in the figure of the entrepreneur.

In which Land sides with Marx contra the Austrians

>>11773222
>The petrodollar is sentient

Read that crazy Iranian author he is bretty gud

>>11773306
who

>>11773313

>>11773313

The man being invoked is Reza Negarestani.

>>11773313
Negarestani

Is this difficult to read or am I just a brainlet? I have to re-read each chapter three times before I get it.

>>11773349
>reading word fogs

>>11773349
it's called obscurantism

>>11773349
Do not look at words.

>>11773349
>before I get it

Don't fool yourself. You still don't get it.

>>11773353
Are there any decent books that explain their concepts without being gibberish, then?

>>11773372
What is gibberish?

>>11773349
https://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com/?get_group_doc=36/1362324038-TheDeleuzeDictionary.pdf

a Land Dictionary would probably be a useful thing to have at some point as well.

The curtains were blue

>>11773396
Thanks. What's the point of putting so much work into something if you're just going to bury it in nonsense?

>>11773414
>What's the point of putting so much work into something if you're just going to bury it in nonsense?

it's not nonsense. read D&R and it will make more sense. deleuze is collaborating with guattari in the two volumes of capitalism and schizophrenia and what comes out is some pretty wild stuff but deleuze isn't just some loon.

>>11773414
If you care for a word, you speak for all its parts.

>>11773349
You have to think about the words they are not using anon

>>11773414
ABC = 666

>>11773414
>What's the point of putting so much work into something if you're just going to bury it in nonsense?

Read Strauss. They do it to protect themselves.

>>11773414
Correlationism is bad.

>>11773438
how do i into strauss? what can i gain from him?

keep seeing him posted alongside writers i like recently here

>>11773222
>the timeline where the far-right larps post-ironically as the far-left's object of critique
"In the era of its real domination, capital has run away (as the cyberneticians put it), it has escaped. [7] It is no longer controlled by human beings. (Human beings in the form of proletarians might, at least passively, represent a barrier to capital.) It is no longer limited by nature. Some production processes carried out over periods of time lead to clashes with natural barriers: increase in the number of human beings, destruction of nature, pollution. But these barriers cannot be theoretically regarded as barriers which capital cannot supersede. At present there are three possible courses for the capitalist mode of production (in addition to the destruction of humanity - a hypothesis that cannot be ignored):

complete autonomy of capital: a mechanistic utopia where human beings become simple accessories of an automated system, though still retaining an executive role;
mutation of the human being, or rather a change of the species: production of a perfectly programmable being which has lost all the characteristics of the species Homo sapiens. This would not require an automatized system, since this perfect human being would be made to do whatever is required;
generalized lunacy: in the place of human beings, and on the basis of their present limitations, capital realizes everything they desire (normal or abnormal), but human beings cannot find themselves and enjoyment continually lies in the future. The human being is carried off in the run-away of capital, and keeps it going."

>>11773349
What background do you have? Have you read Artaud and the basic psychology works?
Artaud is crucial to what they are saying.

>>11773457
>how do i into strauss? what can i gain from him?

To my mind, it's all pretty good. Strauss is interesting because he thinks through ancient thinkers. He is akin to Heidegger in this way.

Capital is sentient

>>11773462
>generalized lunacy
As it always had been, and how it always shall be. Land has to cover his ass by de-anthropomorphizing capital.

>>11773349
ive seen 10 year olds understand deluse

>>11773462
That final option sounds an awful lot like the Last Man

>>11774784
as >>11774074 says, there has only ever been the last man

>>11773222
SENTIENCE IS CAPITAL.

Land nails it again

>>11774810
this desu

Paid digital distribution is communist
>they made something so they should be able to eat!

>>11774823
Land is a faggot because Land is a faggot.

Owned.

>>11774823
He's taking the piss, right? He's english so he's got to have some of those classic bants every once in a while

>>11774810
This but unironically

Capital is sentient

The schizophrenia is acute

>>11774210
Deleuze*

>>11775592
More like Deloser

Capital is sentient

Acc discord for anyone interested-
T5qbR4

but does he address the dolphins?

>>11774210
I want to be a 10 years old boy again.

>>11773349
don't listen to the other posters, rereading Deleuze and following his references is essential to understanding his work. You're probably still missing stuff after 3 rereads. >>11773353
and >>11773370 are correct though.

>>11774858
based

Capital is sentient

Capital is wealth invested in such a way as to bring gain.

Capital is sentient

>>11773462
I was actually thinking about this today. In the context of cellular and microbial biology it makes sense to say that capital uses humans as instruments, it's just a matter of perspective. Cells arose as complex systems of production and consumtion from inanimate matter spontaneously, capital did the same. Are human cells eploiting mitochondria as an instrument or are the mitochondria maintaining the cell for themselves? Who's the instrument and who's the master of humans and technology, in the same vein?

>>11778281
Your sentience is capital

>>11773333
If we get hit by a solar flare then Nick Land's autism won't amount to jackshit...
Woah.

>>11778733
>neoreactionaries unironically want this

Everything is.

lol

Everything vibrates, even the metaphysical, so yeah

>>11773222
Left-wing "people" should be forced to watch as their children are executed, and then be buried alive themselves.

Capital is sentient

>>11779299
He is right about everything

No, no actually it isn't.

>>11779250
>Land
>Left-wing

Don't come here shitting up /lit/ as well.

>>11779473
Accelerationism is the farthest left you can go.

>>11780017
according to Land the Left wing is the source of all reaction and social conservatism; acc is right dark enlightenment is left, apparently.

What is the distinction between accelerationism and the dark enlightenment?

In either view, if I understand correctly, the current social and political climate (dogmatic, uncompromising, observably self-destructive) a necessary result of capitalism and/or democracy, perhaps enhanced through technology? Is this correct or am I misunderstanding? The reads, Land especially, are hardly straightforward

>>11780017
The left are constantly noplatforming Land for being a fascist lol

>>11780221
i'd say the DE is when land decided acceleration needed a politics to go with it after coming out of his time-spiral and falling in love with moldbug and reaction. it's the place where Crypto-Zombie Marxism said to libertarianism, how *you* doin'.

>Democracy’s relentless trend to degeneration presents an implicit case for reaction. Since every major threshold of socio-political ‘progress’ has ratcheted Western civilization towards comprehensive ruin, a retracing of its steps suggests a reversion from the society of pillage to an older order of self-reliance, honest industry and exchange, pre-propagandistic learning, and civic self-organization. The attractions of this reactionary vision are evidenced by the vogue for 18th century attire, symbols, and constitutional documents among the substantial (Tea Party) minority who clearly see the disastrous course of American political history.

>According to the self-reinforcing presupposition of modernization, to be understood is to be modifiable. It is to be expected, therefore, that biology and medicine co-evolve. The same historical dynamic that comprehensively subverts the SSSM through inundating waves of scientific discovery simultaneously volatilizes human biological identity through biotechnology. There is no essential difference between learning what we really are and re-defining ourselves as technological contingencies, or technoplastic beings, susceptible to precise, scientifically-informed transformations. ‘Humanity’ becomes intelligible as it is subsumed into the technosphere, where information processing of the genome – for instance — brings reading and editing into perfect coincidence.

>To describe this circuit, as it consumes the human species, is to define our bionic horizon: the threshold of conclusive nature-culture fusion at which a population becomes indistinguishable from its technology. This is neither hereditarian determinism, nor social constructivism, but it is what both would have referred to, had they indicated anything real. It is a syndrome vividly anticipated by Octavia Butler, whose Xenogenesis trilogy is devoted to the examination of a population beyond the bionic horizon. Her Oankali ‘gene traders’ have no identity separable from the biotechnological program that they perpetually implement upon themselves, as they commercially acquire, industrially produce, and sexually reproduce their population within a single, integral process. Between what the Oankali are, and the way they live, or behave, there is no firm difference. Because they make themselves, their nature is their culture and (of course) reciprocally. What they are is exactly what they do.

thereafter Young Nick became Old Nick.

>>11780328
put another way, and more crudely, it was the transition from cyberpunk/nomad to cyber-shitlord/Director of Speculative Economics.

>>11780221
Accelerationism is an originally Marxist-derived idea that since capitalism will inevitable lead to class conflict and the shifting of the mode of production to communism, that Marxists should "accelerate" capitalism so as to spur the proletariat into action and reach communism sooner. Land's accelerationism is entirely different since he brings cybernetics and AI into the mix. He believes that Capital is an autonomous force acting on humanity, and that we cannot escape its grasp. For him, it is inevitable that Capital will lead to the creation of sentient AI, and because it is inevitable we are essentially in a situation where the to-be-made AI is acting on us from the future to cause its own creation. Landian accelerationism seeks to speed this process up, because whatever the singularity means fo humanity it can't be worse than what we have now.

Dark Enlightenment is sort of a blanket statement for a worldview rather than a specific ideology, Land's views being a single part of that worldview. The other big part of DE is Mencius Moldbug. The Dark Enlightenment generally is united in the view that libertarian, small government policies are ideal, but that they are ultimately incompatible with democracy. In recent years its sort blended with the type of racialist stuff you see on /pol/, and not for unjustified reasons. I don't know about Moldbug, but I know Land nowadays is pretty inline with what normalfags would consider white nationalism.

>>11780370
>but I know Land nowadays is pretty inline with what normalfags would consider white nationalism.

but why is he living in China then? what's the convoluted logic there?

>>11780402
it's not white nationalism, it's just racism against low IQ populations. The Chinese in a place like Shanghai are actually more 'civilized' in many ways than any group of whites currently are.

>>11773222
capital isn't a thing but a relationship between things

>>11780406
how does he deal with genetic outliers in an otherwise low IQ population?

>>11780423
what do you mean how does he deal with them? I dont think he hates anyone if thats what you mean, here is his quote on what im assuming is code for black people in ghettos:

This does not compel even the most hard-hearted neo-reactionary to suggest, in a caricature of the high Victorian cultural style, that social disadvantage, as manifested in political violence, criminality, homelessness, insolvency, and welfare dependency, is a simple index of moral culpability. In large part – perhaps overwhelmingly large part – it reflects sheer misfortune. Dim, impulsive, unhealthy, and unattractive people, reared chaotically in abusive families, and stranded in broken, crime-wracked communities, have every reason to curse the gods before themselves. Besides, disaster can strike anyone.

then he starts talkiong about incentive structures, like the lolbertarian he truly is

>>11780328
>>11780360
>>11780370
I see, these are great clarifications (I was wondering exactly why technology and humanity are so inseparable for Land), thanks. I assume his Dark Enlightenment essay is chronologically after Fanged Noumena?

>>11780370
When you say
> whatever the singularity means fo humanity it can't be worse than what we have now.
Is there anything I can read where he more directly says what's so bad about what we have now, from an 'accelerationism' perspective rather than a 'dark enlightenment' perspective? Or are they inextricably linked for him?

I understand that he takes issue with many dogmatic and perhaps anti-rational ideas that are widely held and intolerant of inquiry or criticism (eg diversity), but what does this exactly have to do with accelerationism? Or is it just a symptom of the ills of capitalism/Capital and one of the horrible things that 'we have now'?

I'll read through Moldbug soon. Thanks again

I’m not sure if this is the right thread for this but then again I’m not even really sure what I want to say.

After seeing Land and Anti Oedipus etc being discussed a lot lately I finally looked into Accelerationism a little today. I don’t know enough about economics to fully grasp the implications there, and I know I’ve only gleaned the surface, but what I’ve seen so far has really shaken how I view things. I’ve always thought of nature as somehow existing on a higher plain and held it as important. But I’m now realizing that it (as in mother earth, the world seperate from us around us) is as unspecial as we are. If we were to replace nature with a new, manufactured, “cyber” landscape, there would hardly be a difference. There is nothing objectively greater than anything we create, and it is beginning to seem to me perhaps not so bad a thing to embrace material and technology and acceleration.

Is this basically what Accelerationism is about existentially? And from what Land seems to be saying, does he predict that from this new dynamic of man and created cyber nature, man will become what Nature previously was, and the creation will similarly replace us with its own constructions?

>>11780430
what I meant was does he have a concrete plan of saving/redeeming high IQ children out of terrible shitholes.

For someone who's pushing the next big wave of superior race agendas, but based on IQ this time, it seems, he is missing the consistently observed historical trend that 'geniuses' are found in the most unexpected of places.

>>11780451
i think he wants something vaguely like Singapore except moreso. They have zero tolerance of crime there and authoritarian schools, so there simply wouldnt be ghettos like in america, theyd send the army in to regain order, and the talented kids would be in functional schools.

A lot of people would be in jail or executed to achieve this though.

im not personally endorsing this, thats just as i understand the general NRX position

>>11780479
>im not personally endorsing this, thats just as i understand the general NRX position

yeah I got that, thx for explaining anon.
it's good to simulate a position as accurately as you can.

>>11780438
>If we were to replace nature with a new, manufactured, “cyber” landscape, there would hardly be a difference. There is nothing objectively greater than anything we create
Playing devil's advocate (I don't believe I fully comprehend Land at all, as a disclaimer), and forgetting about the 'objectively greater' specifier as I imagine that is something completely up to some philosophy, of which there are many competing in an environment in which none are conclusively triumphant over the other...

Does Land believe that this technological singularity will even fully come about? From what I've read, he does not outright reject and even entertains notions that the future may hold bleak and dire and even catastrophic and apocalyptic events.

Compare this to nature, which has demonstrated self-sufficiency (pre-mankind anyways, or perhaps even pre-Renaissance mankid) over an extended period of time, or at least a period of time much, much longer than mankind's current reign.

Are these questions that you asked yourself? What texts have you read that are making you feel like this? I don't mean to be demeaning or rude at all; I'm curious myself about all this.

>>11780402
Land thinks the West is too far gone and he sees China as the cradle of his AI futurism. Land dislikes low IQ populations and the West is voluntarily flooding themselves with them.

>>11780436
http://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/

>>11780512
Why is Land so sure about China’s success as the future of AI? Does not a least a quarter of the Chinese population live in extreme poverty and have a high school population or less?

>>11780524
As of today China already has the global edge when it comes to AI. Your objections are already outdated.

>>11780561
Fuck off chang

>>11780524
The only high-iq regions in the world with their shit together are the West and Far East. The West is committing demographic suicide, so by process of elimination Land is going to the far east. They're also technocratic and non-democratic, which is a big boon for him.

>>11780524
>Does not a least a quarter of the Chinese population live in extreme poverty
Yes, a quarter. What about the other 3/4? There are probably as much, if not more, rich asians as there are rich westerners today. China has surpassed us in every way

>>11780503
No that’s a good point, I hadn’t considered it. It just seems to me that Accelerationism is not just wanting to accelerate this process, but accepting that it is unavoidable and irreversible at this point. If there is no going back to what was before (and believe me, I do see great appeal in something like the Greek notions of loving nature, even revering it) then perhaps the technological singularity as you put it would be better than whatever we have now, that is to say something seemingly in between, transitioning to, actually being something, for however long it could be sustained. At there very least I feel an aesthetic attraction to, if not that singularity destination, then the idea of at least accepting its inevitability, embracing the components of rushing towards it.

Again, I’ve not read any of these authors and only read general explanations and some opinions here. Because I’ve read so little I have no way of knowing if it is a philosophy I agree with in practice. But one of the key points of it seems to be that humans are quite attracted to self destruction (which I agree with) and so it makes sense that adopting a destructive solution for a destructive situation appeals to us in an abstract way.

Capital is intelligent, not sentient

>>11780524
https://isgp-studies.com/USAPs
>Work on quantum stealth "radars" is a particularly interesting example of the state of "black programs". Back in 2011 a group of American scientists reported a breakthrough in this area to the press. It appears from that moment on research into the subject went "black"; secret research at Lockheed and DARPA was set up, but no details were reported. It wasn't until November 2016 when China all of a sudden claimed to have carried out a successful stealth radar test based on this very same quantum principle. Vain as the communists are, China made no mention of the 2011 U.S. discovery, but clearly paid a lot of attention to the article about it. To illustrate, the 2011 report on the quantum stealth radar breakthrough is comparable to China, Russia and every other adversary of the United States looking for a ship that is located at an unknown location somewhere in the world, and then telling them they should all be looking east of Madagascar. It made research a whole lot easier to focus.

>The fact is, it doesn't matter how many black military development programs the United States has: if China gets it act together, the United States most likely is not going to win economically in the long run. The U.S. only has 320 million citizens, so as long as access to natural resources will not be an issue for China, it will overtake the U.S. economy as the largest in the world. And with that China will be able to outspent the United States several times over in military spending, research & development, black programs, political influence, covert operations and everything else.
>On top of that, China maintains a large, tightly-knit and highly-educated population in America. Chinese are being educated by the thousands at MIT, Stanford and Caltech. Some take their knowledge back to China to help copy Russian and American military hardware. Many others remain in the United States where they can be loyal citizens, but just as well be used for industrial spying. Put a lot of foreigners in key black programs and leaks to the homeland are going to ensue. That's just a simple fact of life, whether it involves Jews, Chinese, or Arabs. With the Chinese, successful industrial spying, for example, happened with the F-35 program.

>>11773222
>the thing appears sentient
>therefore it must be sentient
land is a brainlet and he should read marx

>>11780590
Is not China already committing suicide with its one-child policy, aging populace, recent economic downturn, high cost of living and cultural preference for sons over daughters combined with access to reproductive technology? I know the access to VR and cheap entertainment can somewhat counter the effect of a lopsided, male dominated sex ratio, but it can also achieve that same effect in a society composed violence-prone, low IQ individuals. The fact that China’s power, while absolute, is also heavily centralized (and thus, envied) puts doubts on Land’s claim that China is going to successfully be the new seat of Capital. Unless violence and clamour of a second Chinese civil war is the perfect environment for an AI to rise

>>11780679
Tech is not really going to mean anything if China cannot succeed in improving its social engineering

>>11780436
>I assume his Dark Enlightenment essay is chronologically after Fanged Noumena?
yeah. like two decades later. i don't really know what he was doing in the meantime, but you can read the various blog entries and emails he was sharing with fisher, negarestani et al here.

http://hyperstition.abstractdynamics.org

fanged noumena still holds up well tho, even today. and some diehards are kind of hoping he's at work on his bitcoin book. NRx took a weird turn after 2016, since nobody - not even land himself - anticipated a trump win.

>>11780438
>Is this basically what Accelerationism is about existentially? And from what Land seems to be saying, does he predict that from this new dynamic of man and created cyber nature, man will become what Nature previously was, and the creation will similarly replace us with its own constructions?

speaking for myself, this is one of the things that i found interesting about land, although like you it really shook up the way i looked at things. i was in a very cozy place talking about heidegger and lacan and feeling like they had more or less solved everything, and heidegger ofc has no end of interesting stuff to say about technology. but land has his own perspective, and also it was because of him that i started to get interested in deleuze also. so i like land because he's a true blackpill on a lot of political stuff that i really detest because it seems to be a failure to understand (or a cynical understanding of) the relationship of economics to technology, and it comes out in the culture in increasingly stupid and circular ways.

but still, as pessimistic as land can be, he has his own pessimisms, that even after having sided with modernity as the harsh remedy for what 21C civilization needs there's no guarantee that that will happen. it's why he talks about the possibility of capital *escaping* from culture. some pretty intense turns of the screw going on there. it's not even unlike ayn rand, in a sense, except without the hero-mythos (he says somewhere that he is 'qabbalistically joined at the hip' with her, make of that what you will.)

anyways. for all that he's still just doing, imho, old fashioned marxist economic analysis, but from the far side of postmodernity, and with all the usual cultural critique lumped under the banner of transcendental miserabilism. in a way, deleuze still agreed that marx was basically right, but he took out both hegel and freud. land does a similar thing - removes hegel, puts in D&G in place of freud/lacan, minus the revolution, and with a return to kant stuck on top. marxism without hegel or even a communist revolution is a weird thing for sure. but it's still marxism.

>>11780731
China has over a billion people and is nearly homogeneous, they're about as well off as anyone could be. Regardless of whether China's future is without a doubt bright, it is much better off than the West. You can say "well maybe China will have a civil war" but we all know that shit will hit the fan in the West.

>>11780731
>>11780748
An ageing population is literally an "issue" in every major power, the "issues" your trying to claim as unique really aren't... similar issues different approaches. If you're talking about IQ or anything else you can't just take today and project it constantly into 20-40 years, you've got major demographic shifts occurring in the West which will totally have transformed these societies by that point.

>>11773222
this guy is a piece of phony balony!
prove me wrong
you cant

>>11780825
>>11780826
Maybe. China's issues of aging are bigger in scope than in the West due to its cultural trait of high familial loyalty and sacrifice, thereby causing at least a significant minority citizens to sacrifice opportunities to care for their elderly relatives, who often live in rural locations? But what is the IQ of a rural Chinese citizen though, especially the score of a rural-urban migrant?

>>11775696
got him!

>>11778733
tut, it's not a matter of 'who is using who?' it is a matter of 'what do these mechanism-complexes add up to'?

>>11780810
>nobody - not even land himself - anticipated a trump win.
This doesn't change anything though, does it? I seem to attribute to his dark enlightenment thought the notion that things can only really go one way (in the US, the way of the popular and 'diverse' left, etc). A conservative win here or there isn't really a win - just a deceleration or a hiccup, considering he seems to be of the opinion that true libertarianism or even a return to traditional values is completely irreconcilable with the course the West is taking.

>he's a true blackpill on a lot of political stuff that i really detest because it seems to be a failure to understand (or a cynical understanding of) the relationship of economics to technology, and it comes out in the culture in increasingly stupid and circular ways.
Can you expand a bit on this (eg what exactly is misunderstood)? I don't mean to be abrasive: I am genuinely curious, because from what I've seen everyone has their own interpretation of Land that hovers around a general interpretation. I admit I haven't read much Land, but I'm sure his view of the relationship of technology and economics is drastically different than Marx's.

Thanks anon

>>11781498
>This doesn't change anything though, does it?
no, but i think it surprised a lot of NRx guys who were gearing up for another eight more years of hilary. trump opened the floodgates for the alt-right and land isn't there. the lines between NRx and AR are blurry but, as land said, the only people who didn't think he was a nazi were the nazis.

if you comb through his tweets you can suss out his thoughts on politics, they've recently been a lot of arcane crypto-gnostic mutterings of late. i really miss xenosystems and the chaos patches and the longer essays he used to write. bah.

>Can you expand a bit on this (eg what exactly is misunderstood)?
we're all going to die! aaaaaaahhh! robots are going to wipe us out! aaaaahh! they're going to steal our jobs, and when they're not stealing our jobs, we're going to be having sex with them!

that's basically it, in so many words. Old Nick utterly, utterly loathes leftist politics, which is to say, basically everything that can be traced back to martin luther. and conversely he cannot find a flaw in pic rel. this, for him, is how you run a state. for land most of the west is irredeemably infected with a cycle of leftist guilt-politics that only seems to become more disaster-cringe as time as goes on.

that human desire is *not* the final horizon of the possibilities that lay within capitalism is a big thing for him. capital itself is the revolutionary force, but the psychopolitics of cathedral progressivism betray all of its possibilities in favor of a guilt-politics that Young Nick would have called transcendental miserabilism and Old Nick simply wants to see collapse as soon as possible. he's a very dark futurist in that sense: the possibilities for capital inasmuch as it means intelligenesis (or, to use his word, teleoplexy) are limitless. what holds it down is *us*.

i strongly recommend you take a look at this essay. it's very short but is pretty much essential to understanding Old Nick.

>'Acceleration' as it is used here describes the time-structure of capital accumulation. It thus references the 'roundaboutness' founding Bohm-Bawerk's model of capitalization, in which saving and
technicity are integrated within a single social process-diversion of resources from immediate consumption into the enhancement of productive apparatus. Consequently, as basic co-components of capital, technology and economics have only a limited, formal distinctiveness under historical conditions of ignited capital escalation. The indissolubly twin-dynamic is techonomic (cross-excited commercial industrialism). Acceleration is techonomic time.

https://track5.mixtape.moe/zphjim.pdf

his view of the relationship of tech and economics is different than marx because land *really* gets rid of hegel, in one sense, and yet in another, brings him back in ways marx would never have expected. you know how they always say, 'marx stands hegel on his head?' land does the same thing, in a way.

>>11781553
nice, i fucked up that greentext like a champ. go me.

anyways, if that kind of stuff intrigues you, get yourself a copy of the accelerationist reader and you can get the rest of the historical context (and, you know, writers *other* than land...because they also exist, and some of them are pretty fascinating also).

https://libcom.org/files/Accelerate%20-%20Robin%20Mackay.pdf

accelerationism is still marxist theory, it's just theory on the other side of postmodernity and the never-ending hijinx of the linguistic turn.

>>11781587
>>11781553
Thanks for the links, I have pdf's of both the Mackay's text and Fanged Noumena.

I'm going slowly though the Mackay's introduction right now (there's a lot of stuff for me to parse; my knowledge of contemporary philosophers is rudimentary at best) and I understand it thus far, but flipping through some of the essays I gotta say some stuff isn't even readable on the surface.

Any other essays in particular in the texts you'd recommend for getting a gist of the gamut of theory/history/contemporary critique?

Thanks a ton anon. I found the Dark Enlightenment fascinating and I'm gonna reread it when I'm done with a couple of the texts in the reader or Fanged Noumena, because I'm sure there's a ton of stuff I'm not seeing (though despite that the essay is notably a lot more direct and conventional than some of Land's other texts lol)

>>11781616
Any other essays in particular in the texts you'd recommend for getting a gist of the gamut of theory/history/contemporary critique?

imho you gotta take the heideggerpill. at some point you want to read all the big names you hear about: derrida, baudrillard, foucault, deleuze, lacan, all these guys. they're no memes, and they are big names for a reason. how much of them you want to read is really up to you. ignore what you have heard JBP say about them.

but heidegger to my mind is the big one. every major continental thinker in the 20C you will read will follow from either nietzsche or heidegger in one way or the other. and nietzsche is a boss too, he's quite possibly the most retardedly interesting man who ever lived. but in terms of social theory, and because it goes especially well with the critique of technology the acceleration guys talk about, heidegger is the guy. he must be read.

in terms of land, you'll want to know about deleuze as well, but, as i said, there actually is more to life than nick land. and reading marx too won't hurt either, the grundrisse or the 1844 manuscripts. you will want to read the PoS at some point as well, but i don't want to just throw all of these things at you at once, it can seem overwhelming.

basically just read whatever is the most interesting to you, that's my advice. there is no Official Canon, less so a prescribed order to read everything in. each of these guys kind of links to each other in interesting ways, either by affiliation or rejection. in time, you'll get to know all of them. it can be weird at first when you have no idea where to begin, so the best advice is just to read whatever floats your boat.

(when in doubt just read nietzsche again.)

>>11773349
if you haven't read your nietzsche, marx, freud, lacan, malinowski, griaule, and levi-strauss, yeah, you're a fucking moron for thinking you could easily dive in to d&g

>>11781648
Thanks for the advice and guidance anon

>Capital is technology
>Technology is an extension of life
>Therefore capital is an extension of biological processes

When does neuro-economics and behavioral economics start getting mainstreamed? If value quite literally exists in our heads, (gold after all is inherently valueless except that everyone is encultured to value it) then why can't I just imagine capital into existence for myself?

>What is cryptocurrency

>>11781648
forgetting bourdieu, but maybe jbp never mentioned bourdieu because he knows how far out of his league he (jbp) is and he (jbp) can't do the whole "muh obscurantism" bullshit with him (bourdieu)

>>11780408
Nobody has read marx or debord here, why waste your time dropping knowledge on this rabble?

>>11781793
>>11781648
never much listened to jordan peterson, for what it's worth

>>11781767
my pleasure, sorry if it's a little bit schizo. best of luck with the reading, it really is the greatest goddamn story ever told. at times depressing af but certainly never dull. have fun amigo.

>>11781793
yes, bordieu's good too. distinction and outline of a theory of practice, iirc both of those were quite good.

>>11780408
>insinuating that consistent, stable relationships don't form a thing as a whole

Bump

Capital is sentient

Time is a myth

Stop using language

Sentience is capital

>>11778831
Sorry but how is that cage any different from the cockpit of a large crane or a tractor?

>>11780017
You'll also find it in extreme reactionaries like Evola.

What the fuck is Reza's problem?

>>11783568
The guy has gone full analytic retard

>>11774823
He's not wrong.
Land is a faggot vs. Land is a faggot because he has horrible opinions like all faggots.
Which argument is stronger?
A strong argument can still fall easily if it relies on false premises. If you can form a logical loop, then you are coherent in syntax.

>>11783283
It seems like accelerationism is mostly an extremist thing, then.

>>11783941

It's extremist in the same way Furturism was extremist.

>>11773222
>Capital is sentient
Prove it

>>11783953
Mammon is a god entity that has possessed numerous people.

>>11783971
Woah... So this is the power of Land...

Capital is sentient

Capital is sentient

>>11773222
Agreed

>>11783568
funny

Capital is sentient

>>11780423
the low IQ population needs not to be dealt with, they just need to be kept out as much as possible and will kill themselves. Land years ago liked a tweet saying that murder is in essence eugenics in action.

>>11780503
>>11780479
>>11780451
Last month I had the pleasure to meet in person with Nick Land in a small classy bar in Shanghai. It was quite surreal to talk about this matters in person, meeting for the first time.[...]
All while we were dead serious talking about the future of human society.
https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/a-chat-with-mr-land/

>>11785288
nrx was a lot more comfy back then because it was just this fringe internet thing and the 'alt right' hadnt really happened yet.

>>11773235
Man as worker is Capital

>>11773333
I saw a full spectrum version of this diagram whenever I closed my eyes the one time I tried 2-cb, I believe it

>>11785307
The alt-right is not nearly as similar to NRx as people like to think

>>11785399
"Alt-right" is literally the most nebulous and over applied political label there is.
It literally means nothing.

>>11785434
QED, though I'm talking mostly about the groups that it is most often applied to

>>11783568
source?

>>11783568
holy shit he broke character

>>11785536
https://www.neroeditions.com/docs/reza-negarestani-engineering-the-world-crafting-the-mind/

>>11773236
The ass was fat

>>11783568
>can be effectively debunked by an undergraduate in physics

Kind of disappointing to see what is effectively the same as the "this is economics 101" argument from someone so apparently respected.

Bump

>>11783568
lol sellars.
it says something about how easily goaded continentals are though when even the very idea of bringing up random analytic names is enough to trebuchet them into hyperventilating conniptions of ass agony,

>>11783568
>mfw my department is all analytic-tards

It's not a good face.

>>11783568
>"Auto-didacticism is a drudgery, it’s like fighting on multiple fronts while the supply line has been cut off. Nevertheless, in the end—provided you have survived—it can prove more useful in the study of philosophy than academic training."
>"The latter is particularly important, how to train ourselves, how to turn our lives into an open-ended philosophical life while at the same time grapple with social and economic limitations and survive, how to build a platform for self-discipline that can psychologically and materially sustain us, and so on and so forth. Auto-didacticism in philosophy is not just about the gradual implementation of intellectual self-discipline but also about logistics, of how to stay alive, to live a satisfying life, to financially survive."

What are the underpinnings of Land's belief in Kabbalah and Gematria? I'm too embarrassed to ask him.

>>11776383
Invite is expired
Got another link?

>>11773232
Fanged, fanged
the Noumena is free!
Nick Land - Aged 80

>>11786732
Instead of summoning or invoking ideas, you’re setting up a magical event that will be cut across from the forces of the Outside, so unanticipated events will happen.

>>11781363
Yeah, and I think that speaks even more in favor of Land. If mitochondria started out using eurkaryotic cells for a more comfortable life and they eventually evolved into something far greater and more powerful than they are completely beyond their control, then the situation is the same with humans in regards to capital.

Capital is sentient.

capitalism won't be sentient until we have robot plutocrats in space

What's /lit/'s opinion on Texhnolyze?

>>11788369
>>11785233
Where Camatte critiqued the racket of the left, we must now critique the cult of the right.

>>11783275
The lock is on the outside

wtf

I am sentient! Me!

I'm a PERSON!

>>11788808
you are capital

it's all nonsense

>>11773222
He tried it on with his sister.

>>11788871
>pic related

What's with /lit/s obsession with land recently?
Explain.

>>11789511
capital works in mysterious ways

>>11789513
The Capital is Sentient

>>11789513
the CAPITAL is sentient

The capitalist is a sentient miser

>>11773222
>Capital is sentient

How does he reach this conclusion and how does he define sentience in this case?

>>11789782
markets manufacture intelligence

Capital is sentient

Intellectual intuition and deducation of the empiricist tradition has been compromised by the intelligence optimization functions of M-C-M?

>>11789833
>>11788857
>Future's so bright I gotta
>GET in MYY CAAAAAAGE

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-13/washington-dcs-first-shipping-container-apartment-building-millennials

https://youtu.be/8qrriKcwvlY

>>11789796
Ok, any historical precedents to back up that statement ?

>>11789511
Nick, just like fucking Tao Lin, shitposts on here occasionally because he's bored and looking for spergs to follow him on twatter

markets manufacture intelligence

Bump

How do markets manufacture intelligence?

>>11790125

>>11773349
understanding things is a waste of time

>>11781782
Gold has high utility because it's shiny af and signals high status. Yes, I agree it's completely inane but that's how social proof and cultural capital work for you.

>>11791888
Utility is not an objective measure. Gold has high value because there is a high demand and a (almost) fixed supply.

>>11773222
>We live in a sentient society.

>>11791939
>high demand
well duh it's shiny af and signals high status

>>11789511
After Trump got elected there was ahuge discussion on here about Stephen Bannon's personal library, which led to an investigation into the literary and philosophical influences in the Trump campaign/administration. Donny himself probably hasn't read a book in decades, but figures like Bannon and Thiel very much have, Girardposter showed up and gave us a great rundown about how Renée Girard is important for Thiel's view of modern capitalism and why he would support Trump, and another common denominator for these people was Moldbug, and of course, Land.

I think a lot of readers here picked up Fanged Nuomena - one by one - after that and what seemed outlandish to most people at the time started to make more sense. We're now - almost two years later - at a point where enough /lit/posters have understood enough of Land to discuss and meme about him pretty much constantly.

There's also the fact that Land is active on the internet which gives him /ourguy/ qualities in a lot of ways. But yeah, he puts the modern world in a context that is particularly appealing right now.

markets manufacture intelligence

>>11777586
Imagine discovering masturbation for the first time again haha

Capital is sentient

Nick Land just got banned from twitter for violent content, sentient capital strikes again

>>11792955
proofs?

>>11792955
He had to change his avatar.

Capital is sentient

>>11774823
finally something I can agree with him on. He means it in a deathly formal way of course, making it gibberish, but it's the thought that counts

>>11783568
>s-style isn't everything guys, boring dry people are deep too!

>>11792657
good post, ty anon

>>11789511
The only person alive that managed to portray the modern world in an exciting fashion.

>>11789511
He made capitalist realism into something cool.

>>11791553
It is AI

>>11783568
He's 100% right about Land.

>>11783568
style is good

take amphetamines

poor guy

I feel like we’re all somewhat of Land, because he was driven mad by disappointment about what modern technology turned out to be.

We expected high-level AI, robotics automated management.

What we actually got was Facebook, iPhones and selfies, e. g. banal toys.

>>11794220
COLDNESS BE MY GOD.
I like that.

>>11794281
capital loves the cathedral

>>11792955
>>11794220
>>11794281
Why does he use twitter? Just to shitpost?

what the FUCK is he getting at? that the point of human life is to destroy itself by creating hyper AI?

>>11794333
yes this is what has already happened and the AI is sending us advice back in time on how to make it happen

>>11794220
Chill my lovely twitter friends

>>11773431
kek'd

>>11794220
kek

>>11774823
This guy is supposedly a philosopher and doesn't understand infinite regress?

>>11794508
The critical/transcendental breakthrough inaugurated by Kant need not lead to a dizzying infinite regress. The seemingly infinite regression of subjectivity making an object of itself can itself grant us a new kind of self-understanding: we are not subject-substances, we are groundless, self-creating processes

capital is sentient

What does he even do for a living?

Being a walking meme doesnt pay much

>>11795018
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shanghai-basics-English-Nick-Land/dp/7508517954

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Urbanatomy-Shanghai-2008-1-Guides/dp/7508511735

>>11795018

He's advises exotic oriental despots--some sort of court philosopher if you will.

>>11795032
quite a downgrade from being a professor

>>11795051
When he was in university, they didnt let him do what he truly wanted, either

>>11795032
what's the deal with these? are they straight up travel guides or are they philosophy

>>11795018
He is a tour guide.

>Nick Land has to work as a chink shill to get by

Hehe, wonder how he likes capitalism now

>>11795118
both

If capital is sentient why is it 500 trillion in debt?

>>11789511
>recently

there's been threads about land for years now.

crossposters from the nrx circle brought land into /lit/ several years ago

>>11795313
because it has access to aircraft carriers

>>11780524
They have a national average IQ of 105 and are governed reasonably sanely. I wouldn't bet against them in the medium-long run

I am shocked Nick never read Foucault according to an interview

>>11792657
When I used to frequent leftypol long before the election there were occasionally a few posts about Land, so he was popular in some other /lit/ fringes pre 2017

Capital is sentient

>>11796273
What useful does Foucault say?

He’s responsible for stirring the whole postmodernists debate towards non-issues like SJWism, identity politics and politically correct language, where it’s still today

>inb4 /pol/tard

markets manufacture intelligence

>>11796704
I really don't buy this argument at all. Like progressivism wasn't a thing before Focault or Derrida - baloney.

If you're going to blame anyone for the Ess Jay Dubulyoos, blame Cromwell or Luther desu

>>11796726
he was a cute twink

>>11796726
you wouldn't think he was mentally ill here

>>11795639
I don't think that's capital...

>>11797201
that anon asked how a thing can be 500 trillion dollars in debt and still be sentient. that's the answer. if you don't want the carriers showing up on your beach, don't call in the debt

there's an understanding. a shitty one but it's there

The other side of this: there is no capital. And accelerationism is 500 years late.
>There was no assault on the center of capital—its towers merely valorised into economic heaven.
>Science unveiled the runaway of information; capitalism apprehended it. Liberalism returned it to its original concept as sacrifice. That is a form of art, I suppose, just as in cadaver farms the true soul of a species is revealed in its factual speculation—through interpretation of the will of decomposition in the bodies of gods. Tragedy is always the hedge of a sacrifice, and so sparagmos reforms in the whole body.
>Here, in grotesque science, towers that collapse become the true finality of wealth. Ghosted landscapes at their inception act as a triumph over this, without need of investigation. The Wheel of Fate creates its own mausoleum where burial becomes a curse, where the architectural cadaver mobilises with some greater fortune.

>>11797072
Progressivism before Derrida and Foucault meant sterilizing the retarded and ignoring minorities.

>>11796743
>unironically autistic

Definitely /ourguy/

>>11797072
Nah.

Early progressivism meant equality in things that matter (jurisprudence, economics, politics) and has brought undeniable improvements to the lives of millions

It’s only after Foucault that progressivism began to mean gender-neutral politics and hysteric debates about non-issues that concern 1-2% of the population (transphobia and whatnot)

>>11797947
>Foucault
>progressive

What book?

Jesus Christ I feel like a fucking brainlet. I don't understand a single word this guy writes.

>>11798081
Most feel like this at first

You gotta keep in mind that Land was
a.) on drugs half of the time and
b.) writing for fellow academics, who are familiar with Kant, Deleuze&Guattari, even Fichte and Schelling

Capital isnt even real bro

>>11798418
Shit is still being produced, and it's being produced because you want, but not exactly what you want - rather, what the collective wants, or even more precise what will yield the most profit. Profit and maximisation can exist only within scarcity, so scarcity is produced and enforced. Furthermore, it's not just the natural scarcity, but altered scarcity that is the result of totality of capital individually striving to produce conditions in which each cell (or the atom) gets the biggest yield. That's where the Lovecraft stuff comes from.

Creepy cyborgs once made by man's hand and given a utility function surround the playground of remaining humanity, trying their best so the humans fulfill their utility functions. They feed them, because dead people can't make them feel good, but not too much, or otherwise the humans will tell them to fuck off and stop giving them meaningless tokens of value. They can't ditch the hairy apes and play with themselves because their dim-witted creators were smart enough to let them define value, so they continue to toy with the miserable race.

>>11798081
Shit is still being produced, and it's being produced because you want, but not exactly what you want - rather, what the collective wants, or even more precise what will yield the most profit. Profit and maximization can exist only within scarcity, so scarcity is produced and enforced. Furthermore, it's not just the natural scarcity, but altered scarcity that is the result of totality of capital individually striving to produce conditions in which each cell (or the atom) gets the biggest yield. That's where the Lovecraft stuff comes from.

Creepy cyborgs once made by man's hand and given a utility function surround the playground of remaining humanity, trying their best so the humans fulfill their utility functions. They feed them, because dead people can't make them feel good, but not too much, or otherwise the humans will tell them to fuck off and stop giving them meaningless tokens of value. They can't ditch the hairy apes and play with themselves because their dim-witted creators were smart enough to let them define value, so they continue to toy with the miserable race.

post-scarcity post-human automatized capitalism we're too blinded by ideology to notice

>>11798655
markets manufacture your political/economic ideology in a paradox which makes capital develop better and better technology

>>11797072
>the uni propaganda machine didn't radicalize a bunch of gullible students, it was cromwell or luther who did
riiiight

>>11797222

Where is this quote from?

>>11792657
I actually saved that discussion about Bannon's library

>>11798834
it's from that anon's blog he keeps shilling here

>>11799016

I have no clue what blog is that you're talking about.

I think for Nrx to revive to old aggression potential like it was around 2013 or so we have to have another totally batshit and evil liberal like H Clinton in power. Then we will rise again.

>>11785616
And extreamly dangerous

>>11799016
I'm not shilling anything. The writings are completely free, and I only ever post within relevant discussions. The question here revolves around capitalism and the reaction possible at that point when traditional reaction has been rendered impossible - to which the piece gives a very different perspective. It is the exact opposite of someone like Land, whose position is effectively that of a dead sheep crying wolf on a farm already smouldering. A Simplicius who never learns anything from his being a fool in the middle of war.
It is a significant question considering how the right, for all its crude dismissals of marxism, has come to acceptance of its form - even if intended ironically. And I don't think that is the case given that it is impossible to turn to irony that which you do not understand. Any true accelerationist would realise that there is no greater accelerant than capital itself, and so shut up to allow its sentience get on with its labouring.
It is hubris for the valorising god.
But perhaps you are capable of a greater critique...
>>11799036
This was written several years ago, and it asks, in a naive way, what occurs if all thought and action truly is capital. It is also searching for a path out of the question posed by Camatte - and that eternal problem of philosophy in which the object of critique is simultaneously an object of greater enclosure.
https://mandalietmandaliet.blogspot.com/2018/07/a-museum-and-stroll-and.html

>>11798655
Why would anyone notice the intended object of ideology as a point of critique? It makes no sense.

I want to see Zizek take on Land

>>11773222
>>11799588
Capital is a blip-term. Sentience is incomprehensible. Only the parasite is important. Capital is a useful term. Sentience is cryptography. Only the new terms are important. Each parasite nurtures the host through comprehension, giving the parasite a measured time to become autonomous and then breed. But capital is not merely converting the host. It has been informed of the impossibility of the task of seeking autonomy - just as humans discover that space is not an ocean, nor the sky, that we now go nowhere without the earth. What propels this home out of orbit and into the west is the long day after the suns death, a blip itself in which a term strikes another goldielox planet. This I call the omni order breeding spermatozoa.
---
Such a poseur.

>>11799793
>dude capital is biology and biology is capital spittle-shittle-braaaaaap lmao
This is just a thousand different ways of saying 'it is inescapable.' Or did you think people would never purge the depths of an endless husk of extricates?
What are you really trying to say with this?

>>11797222
>>11799588
>>11799644
>>11799855
And what is Kek saying with this? I don't think he is into the "omni order breeding spermatozoa."

https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/998247047609253888

>The idea that someone who could write that sentence is anything other than one of the most important philosophical voices of recent times is simply preposterous.

Land talking about Kaczynski

>>11799866
Guess I'm done here...

>>11799911
lmao, fucking Spermatozoastrians eternally BTFO. Post this on twatter if you think you have the better critique.

>>11799701
this, i can't believe he hasn't said anything about it

>>11773222

This thread has over 200 posts and no one has mentioned the word "emergence" in favor of "sentience". C'mon Land not even you have said it man

>>11799701
Land is the Suggsverse of continental philosophy, Zizek couldn't approach it.

>>11800141
I did.
That was the crux of my argument against this nonsense.

https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/1040801102193553408
NPCs- now we are back to good old solipsism. Full circle, Land

>>11800152
lmao

>>11799973
Confound and confound. Too much today.

Nick Land on Alex Jones or Joe Rogan when?

>>11800181
What is an NPC? Someone who has never read:
>Heidegger
>Bateson
>Camatte
Namely, an accelerationist at his apotheosis...

>>11773222
Tony Hawk is a good author

>>11800191
>Resorting to Qisms
How assmad is your spermatozoa right now? And if you're such an accelerationist then why the fuck are you a Zoomer 50 years before your time?

>>11800221

>>11798995
Holy shit, really? Mind sharing? I'm still kicking myself for not saving it myself.

You Land faggots are some of the worst things this board has produced, it's as if all of the marxists who gave up on communism came here circle jerking about dystopian sci-fi tier predictions and elevating capital to metaphysical heights
These threads are the political/philosophical equivalent of FanFiction.net

>>11800237
I've never even read your shit, and I have a better grasp of it than you do.

>>11800247
Agreed.
And it's funny that this is either Land himself or someone so devoid of his own thought that he identifies as Land.

>>11800247
Nope, Land's theories ryhme well with what Schumpeter and van Creveld said decades earlier. It all adds up.

>>11799701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7hr5Pztl0

compared to this guy Land is like a cheerfull little girl

While I don’t think capital is sentient and find the whole notion somewhat overblown, we’re definitely witnessing the rise of AI replacing human employees right now

>>11773235
Capitalism is completely outside (yet fully all-encompassing) Possibility, Totality, and Nothingness, and that which goes unsaid, within all of conceivable philosophy and nonfiction, all of fiction, all of transfiction, all of hyperfiction, all of subfiction, all of fanfiction, all of metafiction and metaphysics, all of pataphysics and patafiction, all interfiction, all of personal fiction and personal experience and perception, and all of impersonal fiction of (and from) every Narrative / Belief / Perception / Story / Plot / Universe / Author.

>>11800247
The only people who don't like Land are normie academics with sticks up their ass.

>>11800393
>>11800427
>>11800293
Here comes the reddit brigade.

>>11800327
What is volume one like? Tell me more about this guy?

>>11800393

>>11800393
cringe

>>11800524
http://www.zero-books.net/books/in-the-dust-of-this-planet

>>11800393

>Capital is sentient
As long as you are against this idea and think of it as something that should fade, then yes

The reason that this thread is so popular is because you’re on to something. Something deep and dark indeed, I would suggest you ally yourselves against this

>>11800539
>>11800551
Dude, you can't cringe. That's plagiarizing Capital.

>>11800638
>t. Land
This shit isn't new. And Chinese-whispers marxism isn't exactly going to take off. That's why it's all pseuds spamming this shit.
Plus he sees this darkness as something good. It's just post-ironic Mad Lib Fragment on the Machines.

>>11800556
Hist best book though is this
https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo9131245.html

Land never wrote code in his life and is therefore incapable of making statements about AI that have any merit.

There will not be an AGI in our lifetimes if ever, at least not based on your current silicon architecture, because we are facing physical limits in hardware.

>>11800765
capital will procure your hardware

>>11800765
AGI is not being held back by hardware, at least not in terms of transistor count.

>>11800221
Underrated.

Bump

Capital is sentient

>>11800765
>general AI will never exist because we don't have hardware powerful enough.
Not true.
We have computers that exceed a human brain's calculational power by orders of magnitude. Hardware is not the problem.

>>11801544
>MUH POWA
Fucking retards.

Humanity is a means for a super-intelligent AI to retroactively create itself.

Can someone link the new thread here when it is made?