/lit/ - Literature

A chart to help boost the thread

Solar is action over contemplation, Lunar is contemplation of the divine without any action taken. Action produces value of yourself, while pure contemplation is just being a parasite of other's spirit.

>>11633678
>Action produces value of yourself, while pure contemplation is just being a parasite of other's spirit.

>>11633660
solarity is what resists the entropic current

>>11633660
You guys seem like the right fellows to talk to on this. Why is it that Americans seem so obsessed with cuckhold porn? Is it social engineering? Which traditional writer speaks best on the evils of miscegenation and cuckholdry?

>>11635013
submissive beta men getting off on the desirability of their women

>>11635026
That explains why so many people who watch it are traditionalists

Could we apply the solar/lunar dichotomy to different philosophical systems? Would Bataille, Schopenhauer, and arguably parts of Nietzsche be considered lunar? At least insofar as they emphasize the base (libidinal matter) over the superstructure (spirit)?

>>11633660
As someone completely alien to this kind of literature, what is traditionalism about? Why should I read any of these authors? Convince me of their value.

>>11633660
I've come to the conclusion that the West is actually motivated by a Faustian Spirit a la Spengler. However, I believe that Goethe's Faust is inferior to Marlowe's. Spirit is to Culture as as water is to a pot. The Germans, Spengler and Goethe, correctly determined that the pot is useless without water to carry, but they made the mistake of believing that the solution to a slowly emptying pot is to allow water to act unimpeded, to simply escape its vessel and leave it empty. In order for the West to survive, Faustus must be constantly dragged to Hell; the Faustian Spirit must be denied its yearning for freedom and the infinite.

>>11635059
Bataille is solar anus. Hegel is solar phallus. Kierkegaard is solar vagina. Schopenhauer is lunar vagina. Nietzsche is lunar phallus. Deleuze is lunar cloaca.

>>11634996
>implying anything resists entropy
>inb4 finalquestion.asimov

>>11633678
Man is lunar and woman is solar. The ultimate paradox...

>>11635273
In German and Chinese, the Sun is female, and the Moon is male.

Who here is hyped for Evola (and Ur Group)'s Intro to Magic Volume II (being entitled "The Science of I" in Italian -- way cooler title)?

>>11635284
Sin is a male moon god.

>>11635013
>Why is it that Americans seem so obsessed with cuckhold porn?
Porn.

>>11635343
I am, can't fuckin wait

>>11635343
Yeah I'm reading Volume 1 right now it's good stuff, can't wait to see how the journal took off it's direction in the later stages

>>11635013
It's due to our lack of a higher spirit and culture. We follow a lunar religion that actively goes against spirit itself. Look at the origins for america, the puritans. It's just the end result of a wrong way purity spiral

>>11635209
Well why should we want you to read them? Knowledge is initiatic

>>11637701
Ah. The old reverse-psychology.

>>11637733
No but that's actually an argument, some people aren't just made for this type of stuff. Look at Varg, dude went crazy with traditionalism and is now a placenta worshiper with his wife's last name

>>11635269

>>11633660
cringe

Y'all ken the ritual of the mirror? I'll explain it
Things you'll need:
a mirror
a blank room
loose fitting clothing
and incense

when it turns 10 o clock burn the incense, close the door to the room and stare into the mirror. stare until it is if your reflection is moving faster than you. stare until all goes white in the mirror. stare until after it goes white, there is a black dot in the center and keep staring until blackness fills the whole of your vision.

What this technique is supposed to do is to blur the line of becoming and force you into being. It won't work the first time, never does, but it'll make you be soon enough. Source: Introduction to Magic chapter 3 part 4, by the UR group

Is this book trad or perennial?

>>11637882
well all I see from the description is that he is positing forth his theory that greeks and indians had contact with each other to form modern though.
>Is he using any metaphysical symbols to show this?
If not, it's neither and just a religious studies book
>if so, is he making a distinction between solar/polar metaphysics and lunar/tidal metaphysics?

>>11636031
Just broke my streak to a hot cuck video. Sorry Varg.

>>11638586
what was it?

>>11637859

Explain why I should want to be instead of become

>unironically being a 4chan “trad” guy
>jerk off to hentai and game all day but call things degenerate
>LARP as a christian just out of spite for hedonistic normies
>bandwaggon on the newest edgy philosophical revival trend without giving it a second thought

Jesus christ guys, i bet most of you are in the prime of your lives, yet here you are roleplaying with a bunch of other losers online. Literally go outside and get a girlfriend.

>>11640030
Printing this out and sticking it on my wall. Thanks for the motivation anon.

>>11640030
I will not.

>>11635013
Excessive consume of pornography leads to identification with female genitalia due to it being the main focus of attention.
If the person is also lonely it leads down a dark path where that is the way he expresses his sexuality, in a perverted delusion that consumes his very self on the altar of femininity in search of the lacking female side in his life.
This requires renouncing his masculinity in an attempt to merge with the sensation of pleasure/female that his brain associates with the sight of a vagina being penetrated.
The "other"'s (active male) function (mostly black to cut a clear a clear difference between himself and this "person", even though it's considered a secondary object and not an actual being) is to put yet again a more powerful focus on the female genitalia. Every act of humiliation the "other" enacts is just an extension of the female's will and therefore desirable.
Of course this tends to be a dark loop where the more twisted it gets, the better the orgasm, enforcing all of the above.
As a last note, the contraction of abdominal muscles during a humiliating situation leads to the same type of pleasure of bowel movements and thus also aids the behavior.
If you are reading this you are free of patterns and can choose to do as you please.

>>11640517
Do your bowel movements pleasure you?

>"""tradition""" general
>"Abrahamism will be looked down upon"
What tradition are you talking about then? Certainly not the foundations of western civilization then.

>>11640552
absolutely breadpilled

>>11633660
>This is NOT a Perennialist thread, as such Guenon, Schuon, and Coomaraswamy are not the main subjects of focus here but are allowed. Serrano is allowed too, Devi is not.
>making a bunch of stupid rules for an internet discussion.
evola and guenon had more in common than they did points of distinction, all these teachers (even Devi) should be respected as what they're primarily doing is opening paths from the academic to the esoteric spheres.

Evola, Guenon, Eliade, Schuon, even Serrano and Savitri Devi, are all teaching the same wisdom, they just have slightly different personal takes on it.

also if you haven't read The Lightning and the Sun yet it's an amazingly fun read

>>11637882
>Is this book trad or perennial?
traditionalism and perennialism are basicallt yhe same, anyone who tells you different is a nerd concerned with ephemeral semantics.

>>11640573
>(even Devi)

DUDE HITLER WAS AN AVATAR OF VISHNU LMAO

>>11640608
>DUDE HITLER WAS AN AVATAR OF VISHNU LMAO
she's not really wrong, dude. Whichever name you put on the blind force of destruction and dissolution, Hitler embodied it more absolutely than anyone else since the renaissance.

I see Lightning and the Sun as Devi's attempt to view an extremely confusing and chaotic time as an expression of the temporal order, by examining the era through the lens of her religion. It' might be a crazy book, but it represents exactly what traditionalism and perennialism should be doing.

also the bit about akhenaten is just fucking cool, separate to all wackiness.

>>11640638
>blind force of destruction and dissolution,

Except that's not Vishnu you mong, it's Shiva

>>11640653
>Except that's not Vishnu you mong, it's Shiva
Kalki is obviously a destroyer.

>>11640656
The actions of one avatar (which are not even recognized by many Shaivaites and other non Vishnu-based sects) don't supercede the central functions and roles of another one of the trimurti

>>11633660
Solar nature is the central point, the lunar nature is that which surrounds the center of the world.

Guénon was the progenitor of the Traditionalist School of thought.

>>11634956
Guenon was a cuck just as much as Schuon. To be aware of the decaying state and cowardly flee to the next thing which still is oldschool, effectively abandoning the _root_ - this fatalism - is exactly why they can't really be respected. Spengler was completely right with his Pompeii metaphor.
That does not mean that they were hacks, e.g. Schuon's chapter on relativism is brilliant.

>>11642140
It wasn't Guenon's responsibility to personally save France

What a shit thread!

>trad
>"trad"
>neo-pagan revival movements from the early 1900s perpetuated by cripples, celibates and pessimistic nihilists

That's not trad you dimwits. Pick an Abrahamic religion and stick with it, no exceptions, no alternatives.
Stop butchering hinduism/buddhism/greeks to try and salvage some sort of "white" religion.
Philosophy does not save.
Period.

>>11642357
>That's not trad you dimwits. Pick an Abrahamic religion and stick with it, no exceptions, no alternatives.

Lmao nah. Don't hate those who can synthesize their own truths from a wide variety of sources. You're like metaphysical bucket crabs

>>11642357
>the world is only 2000 years old

>>11642251
Exactly the opposite, he was bound soil and blood no matter the odds.

>>11642478
>he can't think beyond racial politics

boring

>>11642539
>blood and soil is racial politics
You're a burger aren't you? Cringe.

>>11642357
The Indo-Europeans religions speak to the European soul on a far deeper level than the primitive superstition-like nature of the Abrahamic faiths

>>11642927
There are higher things than blood and soil

>>11633660
Devi is not?

Did I accidentally go to /x/? Are you guys trying to cast spells? The only numerology that works is 58008. Get a functioning metaphysics yo!

>>11640656
no he's a chastiser. vishnu only incarnates in order to restore dharma and preserve the world.

>>11643131

The artificial duality of Guenon/Schuon/Coomaraswamy vs a group of people with not much in common like Evola, Spengler, Eliade and Junger such as OP made is something done by clueless people (I've seen it before too) who are entranced by the idea of a vague right-wing reactionary mysticism and want to larp as being esoteric right-wing vanguards but without any serious intellectual understanding of the deeper principals imvolved. The reason they have a distaste for Guenon et al is that these figures correctly point out that at the summit, at the highest realization and final spiritual attainment taught by most traditions, is something which extends beyond and transcends any sort of contingency such as culture, nation, race or a particular historical era. They recoil upon learning this because it's antitheical to the reason they started reading reactionary and traditionalist authors in this first place. This makes them not like anyone who seriously delves into actual metaphysical doctrines and they prefer to just read right-wing political thought (Schmitt/Maistre), right-wing literature (Junger, Mishima, Hamsun etc), people who deal with religion but without fully getting into the deeper metaphysics (Jung, Eliade) or people like Evola who basically just try to be a more entertaining and edgy Guenon by mixing his ideas with all sorts of racial and political considerations, despite these by default being irrelevant in the face of the highest state of realization. This is not to shit on any of these authors, I greatly enjoy most of them. But Traditionalism didn't really exist before Guenon but only the separate domains of reactionary political thought, revolutionary conservatism, western esoterism and the occult etc. Stuff like OP's post is basically wanting to assign all the aforementioned stuff to the category of Tradtionalism while excluding the whole point of it, namely understanding the deepest metaphysical principles that exist independent of any contingency. There never ends up being any depth to it though, most of these people end up posting about entry-level symbolism like lunar vs. solar or silly stuff like aryan souls vs. non-aryan souls. The entire basis on which Traditionalism rests are these same principles and without them it's just edgy right-wing mysticism.

>>11643536
>The reason they have a distaste for Guenon et al is that these figures correctly point out that at the summit, at the highest realization and final spiritual attainment taught by most traditions, is something which extends beyond and transcends any sort of contingency such as culture, nation, race or a particular historical era.

absolutely based

>or people like Evola who basically just try to be a more entertaining and edgy Guenon by mixing his ideas with all sorts of racial and political considerations, despite these by default being irrelevant in the face of the highest state of realization.

not so based. evola makes the same point you're making repeatedly

>>11643596
Hmm, maybe I misread him. I haven't read any of his books from cover to cover but I've read many select chapters from certain ones that I was curious about what he'd say about something. I recall him vaguely mentioning the idea in passing but I don't remember him emphasizing its importance. There were a number of red flags that made me think otherwise. He wrote a number of very brainlet things about Advaita which implied he didn't understand it at all. I recall in the letters between him and Guenon he didn't get the manifest vs. unmanifest distinction which is key. Evola's presenting of his idea of the 'absolute individual' being another one as the Absolute is itself strictly non-individual (individual taken in its personal and not numeric sense), with the only possible way it could being applied in that there is only one Absolute and in that sense can be considered individual. For someone who understood that the highest understanding transcends things like race and nation he sure didn't hesitate to reference them constantly. Maybe despite all that it's true that he did get it.

You can forgive me for thinking otherwise because if what you say is true than evidently 2/3rds of Evola posters misunderstand him. I can't count how many times I've seen Evola posters says things like there is an Absolute difference between Aryan and not-Aryan/black souls, that the highest metaphysical goal is to become some sort of superhuman god-being (but remaining within manifestation) and imply that reaching a state of realization that transcends race/nationality is being a cuck etc.

>>11633660
READ THE REAL TRADITIONALISTS

>>11640011
https://www.xvideos.com/video32601091/blackedraw_blonde_trophy_wife_cucks_her_husband_with_bbc

>>11643835
blackedRAW sucks they never do anal, and that chicks tits look like balloons, blacked in general has really gone downhill

>>11643846
I like all bodies but I get a taste for fake bimbo bodies sometimes.

Yeah, I find their content derivative and racist. I've tried to switch to properly amateur porn because I don't want to desire unattainable sex anymore...

Only doing nofap so I can save my cum at the moment, because my ex is in town and I never gave her a big, hot load :( only sad dribbles :/ She's agreed to it so I better stick to my guns, as it were (aha)

It will also prove whether or not I'm low t. I think I wanked nearly every day of my life (several times a day) since I was a teen. Pray for me bros/kweens that it's just the fact I wank more than Honour the Ballsack, and not some low t bugman cuck!

I'm not a traditionalist (homosexual, common law marriage, love playing games, etc.), but I don't want shit up the board with something that basically has a general. About five years ago, I used to be heavily involved in leftism, but fell out of it after being more-or-less excommunicated for having the "wrong" ideas. Since then, I've become a patriotic national-flag-flying center-right sort of person and have converted from atheism to a wishy-washy universalist blend of Christianity and Shin Buddhism. I have been reading up on world history and have studied geopolitics in-depth in university. I'm really into MacKinder's theory of global geopolitics revolving around the Eurasian heartland, and have been agreeing a lot with Haushofer's geopolitik. Recently I've been reading Decline of the West and it's honestly got me scared shitless and stockpiling dry foods, potable water, etc. Is there anything I can read that will absolutely rip apart Spengler's ideas so I can be less concerned about the coming Caesarism and civilization collapse and just live my life?

Any good secondary lit for Evola?

>>11644572
Maybe the introductions to the shorter essays?

>>11643536
>artificial duality of Guenon/Schuon/Coomaraswamy
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>11645131
The implication was OP created a false duality between the first group of authors and the second by describing the first as perennialists and the later as traditionalists, which is silly because traditionalism is largely inseparable from the traditionalist school which is explicitly perennialist, people like De Maistre are just regular reactionaries. The second group of authors had very little in common with each other, Evola belonged in the first group and was even less traditional than Guenon in many ways, and Eliade was less traditional by far. The whole post was a mess.

These thinly veiled /pol/ threads can fuck right off to their containment board along with "Is he, dare, I say it" posts that need a boardwide filter along with other memetic mindkillers.

Evola and Guenon are mental midgets. On top of that, they are not novelists, they have no value as philosophers and the only reason these threads pop up is because American millenials need something to feed their resentment and it's what they think European right wing thought looked like.

Just keep reading the International Jew.

>>11645217
We got a hot take here

>>11633660
t.

>>11645217
>Evola and Guenon are mental midgets.

Guenon used to teach philosophy and could read 7 or 8 languages including Hebrew, Arabic, Sanskrit and classical Chinese

>>11640552
western civilization was a mistake

>>11644572
His influences, obviously.

>>11645217
All is yellow to the jaundiced eye

>>11645271
unironically based and redpilled
>>11640552
unironically based and redpilled

>>11633660
>Jünger, Spengler
>traditional
Maybe try at least skimming their wiki pages next time, rather than just throwing out an incoherent list of vaguely fascistoid thinkers.

>>11643536
>comparing Schmitt to de Maistre
pls no
>claiming Schmitt as a right-wing thinker
Highly questionable.

>>11643536
based

>>11643536
Excellent post, no irony here

>>11645386
I don't care one way or another, it was just a passing reference that's irrelevant to the point of the post and I'd be willing to entertain him as a centrist or apolitical if someone could provide a good argument for why, but it's a fairly normal and widespread view that he was in one way or another right-wing, I'm not greatly mischaracterizing him there. In the very first sentence of his wiki article it describes him as conservative and gives several citations describing him as such, one of which is an academic text.

>>11645265
You mean the civilization that reached the very peak of human achievement in the arts, science, and philosophy? What we live in today only vaguely resembles western civilization.

>>11645357
he made a thread to discuss Traditionalism. Clearly he wants to get a better understanding of it. Who cares if he's a pseud. I don't even see the point of namedropping thinkers, principles and truth transcend them. We aren't writing academic essays, you don't need to cite or prove the claim comes from an authority/credible source. People who don't naturally have an internalized sense of traditionalism aren't going to understand anything, and those that do don't actually need a perfect intellectual understanding unless they want to start codifying it themselves. They just need to be honest with themselves and ask if they are called by traditionalism because they feel out of place in the world as it is and have rashly concluded they are perfectly suited for the world as it ought to be, or because of a genuine feeling that nothing is in it's proper place.

>>11645419
>What we live in today only vaguely resembles western civilization.

It was inevitably going to come to this point though, from the very beginning it carried the seed of it's own destruction.

>>11645428
I have no idea how revolutionary, high modernist thinkers with a clear post-enlightenment ideas are supposed to be in any way traditional.

>>11645430
Absolutely baseless assertion, but alright.
I'm sure you, Mr. Anon, know better than the last 2000 years of the greatest minds.

>>11645419
material achievement, progress etc etc all don't matter, and are in fact, inherently disruptive and chaotic. If you think making statues, gadgets and ramblings is the highest virtue you are thoroughly worldly.

>>11642357
>Pick an Abrahamic religion and stick with it, no exceptions, no alternatives.
Get fucked, faggot
>>11642954
This

>>11645444
Absolute state of you. Why are you even on a literature board if you denigrate the highest forms of art? Not only any kind of art, but that which was created with divine inspiration. Like the other anon said, walk into any cathedral in Europe and you will realize it is not merely a building, nor are its statues merely just blocks of marble. Neither is the music of Bach or Handel merely "ramblings".

You would have me believe that Africa has achieved more.

>>11645462
>You would have me believe that Africa has achieved more.

Higher culture is not inseparably linked to technological development. The east had higher culture but everything in Africa south of the Sahara didn't.

>>11645462
If you have apples you can sell the apple tree eh?

>>11645483
When did I mention technology besides vaguely referring to science? Look at my post that you replied to. You cannot refute any of it.

The peak of western art and thought, infused and founded upon Christianity primarily, was FAR from anything wordly. Nothing comes close to it.

>>11645500
In all things that are not inherently based on technology such as the arts, architecture, music, leisurely activity, cultural traditions, profound thought like philosophy/theology/metaphysics, easterners have made high achievements on par with those of the west which in some cases exceed those by westerners. The only way you can argue otherwise is from a position rooted in sentiment, like saying western art is better than all eastern art because I personally think realism is the best art etc. Name any western achievement not having to do with technology or the sciences and I could name an eastern one that's similarly impressive.

>>11643829
what a handsome fella young sadler was

>>11645522
"Achievement" doesn't matter. If all you are basing truth on is stuff you should go worship capitalism. If traditionalism left us all as stone age hunter gathers it would still be true and preferable. traditionalism being from the past is of no consequence, it's valuable because it's tenets are true. it is being over becoming, it is a total rejection of skepticism and nihilism for it's foundations.

>>11645522
>In all things that are not inherently based on technology such as the arts, architecture, music, leisurely activity, cultural traditions, profound thought like philosophy/theology/metaphysics, easterners have made high achievements on par with those of the west
If so then why do they flock to our countries to view our achievements in droves, not the other way around? Why is it they study Shakespeare, Dante, Homer, and the rest of our canon, while we seldom learn of theirs? Why do they study the music of Bach and Handel, while no asian composers of note exist? They have some interesting parts of their culture sure, but the beauty, artistic capability, and divinity reached by those in the highest echelons of our culture far exceed that of any other continent.

>>11645559
>If traditionalism left us all as stone age hunter gathers it would still be true and preferable
*dies of tooth decay*

>>11645559
>If traditionalism left us all as stone age hunter gathers it would still be true and preferable.
Hardly an argument. Man, as God made him, cannot be so idle. I fail to see what capitalism has to do with art as I mention here >>11645462
These are not just "buildings", "slabs of colour", "words on a page", or "blocks of marble". Your worldview is quite shallow if you believe so.

>>11645585
>it's the comfort argument again

>>11645559
>tfw enamored by hunter-gatherer life
>tfw also enamored by philosophy, mathematics, and music

>>11645590
I'm calling you a retard for thinking representations/manifestations of truth are truth itself, and that stuffs that are impressive can only stem from correct intentions. Again, you would cut down the apple tree now that you have apples.

>>11645604
>I'm calling you a retard for thinking representations/manifestations of truth are truth itself
How are they not the truth? Because of Him, were these things inspired. He is the truth.

>>11645559
I agree but I'm just pointing out that regardless his characterization of the east is wrong.

>>11645567
>If so then why do they flock to our countries to view our achievements in droves, not the other way around?
Because there are 2 billion Indians and Chinese so the small portion that come to the west seem like a lot, also graduating from a western uni allows for better material success (these people are often largely already westernized and materialist)

>Why is it they study Shakespeare, Dante, Homer, and the rest of our canon, while we seldom learn of theirs?
Easterners learn a huge amount about their own history and thinkers, the amount that they study of western thought is fairly small compared to their own that they study. It's only the west that focus exclusively on itself for among other reasons that western academia is mostly a retarded meme.

>Why do they study the music of Bach and Handel, while no asian composers of note exist?
>I can't name any Asian musicians or composers
>therefore no Asian ones of note exist
I thought I was on /pol/ for a second there. Many easterners know extensively about different types of Indian or Chinese traditional music while only knowing 1 or 2 western names, it's all just a matter of perspective.

>They have some interesting parts of their culture sure, but the beauty, artistic capability, and divinity reached by those in the highest echelons of our culture far exceed that of any other continent.
Again, these are all simply sentimental considerations with no basis other than your personal preferences. You can find dozens of examples of eastern beauty, art and theological/metaphysical teachings which many people would say surpass the west.

>>11645585
>dies of tooth decay
Historically people had better teeth than we do desu

>>11645585
*dies of usury*

>>11645640
>Again, these are all simply sentimental considerations with no basis other than your personal preferences.
>objective beauty/aesthetics doesn't exist
top kek
lemme know how that line of thinking works out for you down the road :^)

>>11645644
without reproducing no less

>>11645649
>my personal preferences are objective
kill yourself

BEHOLD.... THE BEAUTY OF THE WEST!!!!!

>>11645660
Objective standards of beauty do exist though. beauty just exists in principle regardless of manifestation. Even a larping christcuck would know this, everything comes from God. You worship God, not false idols to represent his glory.

>>11645522
Oh come on. This is weaboo levels of worship.
But I'll bite and even play with a 9-stone handicap.
>Prokofiev
>Kleist
>Weydens
I'm not going to discount the Asians as that would just be silly (and I do find much of their religion especially interesting), but in terms of art there is no discounting that Europeans surpass everyone else. I think the argument can be made in terms of philosophy, religion, and architecture, but music, painting, and literature? Not a chance.
It can also be said that your own worship of the exotic is due to a ressentiment of our own abandonment of culture. That is perhaps far worse than sentiment for our own because you are left wanting something you will never truly understand. I also find this Orientalism strange because it amounts to nothing more than a theoretical or liberalist form of tradition, something we could never truly put into practise here. It is only as real as goat yoga.

>>11645660
?
In one of my first posts I already outlined that what we live in today only vaguely resembles western civilization. If anything, it more closely resembles the godless Asiatic civilization. And when did I say personal preferences? Through examining the beauty, technicality, and artistic merit (among other factors) one can come to the conclusion (as many people throughout the world already have, from renown thinkers to laymen) that the highest echelon of western culture surpasses that of any other civilization. I'm not saying that the east has no merit. But the east is the east and we are the west. I would prefer it to stay that way and for us to return to our roots, when our thought and art flourished.

>>11645660
where the fuck is that? dallas or something?

>>11645590
To extend the sabbath is the true meaning of Christianity.

>>11645687
>I also find this Orientalism strange because it amounts to nothing more than a theoretical or liberalist form of tradition, something we could never truly put into practise here. It is only as real as goat yoga.
Thank you for putting this into words.

>>11645559
Primitivism is the only true tradition.
>>11645585
Only civilised people were too stupid to understand that lack of sun causes your teeth to fall out and that evergreen tree resin not only cures scurvy but prevents the minor wound from becoming sepsis.

sorry luddites but if we dont invent some bitchin spaceships in the next 100,000 years or so and get the fuck outta the solar system we're all FUCKED ok

>>11645698
I fail to see what this has to do with my point. Man was put upon the earth. One cannot be idle. This doesn't get in the way of worshipping Him or leading a moral life.

>>11645702
No problem. May try to expand on it in something I am working on.

>>11645721
Yeah, these orientalist cucks are easily some of the most cringe people on /lit/. Straight up /pol/ posters are more reasonable then they are. As you say, they denigrate the (Christian) roots of our civilization because they don't understand it (most likely due to an atheistic upbringing or poor education) and then they assume the right to blame modernity's failings on it. Perhaps it's time they thought about the fact that maybe it's maybe due to a lack thereof.

>>11642406
christianity is still useful spiritual tech. The concept of a saviour who absorbs sin is inherently valuable, and monotheism is necessary to keep ego cohesion, rather than exploding your identity into dozens of disjointed parts like humans used to live in the past.

>>11645688
>it more closely resembles the godless Asiatic civilization.
Both India and the middle east are much more religious in the modern era than the west

>to return to our roots, when our thought and art flourished.
You don't get it anon, this was the inevitable result of western culture, there's no getting off the ride at this point, what you vaunt so highly could only lead to this

>>11645748
>then they assume the right to blame modernity's failings on it.

The disaster of modernity would never have arisen in the first place if it weren't for Christianity not being strong or compelling enough to prevent it.

>>11645781
If that's true explain why oriental cultures dropped their traditions and religion far, far faster than the west in the 20th century. We still at least preserve the trappings of our culture in historic architecture, christian LARPing, etc, whereas all asian cultures have demo'd anything and everything that reminds them of the past.

>>11645682
Objective vs. Subjective does not really exist and is one of the great brain-farts of western thought. There is only the Absolute (which is beyond all distinctions such as beauty) and the contingent, which is non-objective. The only thing which objective would not be an inaccurate description of is the Absolute and the word objective itself is highly inadequate for that purpose anyway.

>>11645748
You are a larping retard who doesn't have any faith in Christianity. You just think it's useful (in its bastardized Roman Catholic form that had next to nothing in common with it outside the monastic tradition ) for white people. It's all built on false pretenses. You worship civilization by amount/quality of "stuffs" and claim you aren't worldly. Christianity is in fact a rejection of traditional values and truths which is why next to no one actually has any faith in it. Any truth found in it (and there are a decent amount, even if they come to it for the wrong reasons) are vestiges from traditionalism. it seeks to make a counter world to the world instead of having it all flow together holistically.

>>11645791
>If that's true explain why oriental cultures dropped their traditions and religion far, far faster than the west in the 20th century

Because they were literally westernized at gunpoint through colonization and the few ones that weren't realized that they would have to out of necessity so that they wouldn't get balkanized and turned into puppets existing solely for the profits of westerners. The loss of tradition in the 20th c. was just the flowering of what had already been cemented in place mostly by westerners in the 18th and 19th c. during the colonial empires.

>>11645803
If there's no counter world, there's no value to the act of transcendence, which is the essence of white culture. Holistic shit like you describe only encourages complacency, and probably explains the psycho pathology of asiatics.

>>11645802
Pointless semantics
>which is beyond all distinctions such as beauty
cringe

You probably just have shit (wrong) taste desu and don't want to admit it.

>>11645802
How is the absolute present in Babymetal? And is there not a subjective appreciation of Babymetal which is not in some way the negative space of the Absolute? Does Eastern thought reconcile with such contradictions?

>>11645811
They most certainly could have accepted technology without throwing out their entire culture. The russians did it, the arabs did it, only they took it like absolute eunuchs.

>>11645814
>can't into basic principles

>>11645813
>I'm a progressive!! i'm always wanting!
You realize as a christian (lol) you are supposed to want for nothing right? it's a radical rejection of passion.

>>11645824
>The absolute is nebulous and indistinct so as not to threaten my orientalism fetish

>>11645803
>ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE DEFEATED WESTERN TRADITION WITH THE GUNBLADE MAY LAY CLAIM TO THE TRUE ABSOLUTE OF NON-LARPING
Come on, bro, answer my question.

>>11645823
Technology is only the most visible aspect of westernization but other aspects of it run far deeper and are far more consequential. I shouldn't even have to explain this to you. By the time the colonial empires came to an end in almost all of the former colonies, western-style economies, education systems and governments etc were already locked in place and run by a carefully-cultivated westernized elite.

>>11645831
That is not, and has never been the case in practice almost anywhere besides monastic orders mate. Stop being an autist.

>>11645848
Obviously, but only technology was necessary for their survival. Westernization as a whole was not, and the fact that they accepted it as easily as they did, with very little resistance suggests that their belief system was already feeble and flawed.

>>11645814
He refused my generous komi and high-handicap game, so you're probably right.
>>11645687

>>11645852
>That is not, and has never been the case in practice almost anywhere besides monastic orders mate.
I wonder why? Probably because Christianity is fruitless by itself and was a hollow shell that had no bearing on western civilization which largely kept its traditional routes. You are a massive coward and just think Christianity has the best chance of uniting the common filth together to "make whites great again" because it's familiar and palatable to them. Your foundations are a sham.

You are also a modernist with a spirit of rebellion for it's own sake. You think living correctly is somehow being idle (literally impossible to be idle) and want the "next big thing" to happen for novelty sake. You are better off putting your faith in science and becoming a technophile if you just want things to keep "improving"

>>11645848
>>11645857
see: russia, the arab world, iran, all of them kept at least part of their belief system intact through modernization. Only East asia (with Japan as a partial exception) decided that nothing should remain.

>>11645865
see:
>>11645813
>>11645766

>>11645870
>russia kept their belief systme intact through modernization
>was communist for 70 years of industrialization

ok

>>11645865
tech as such is a dead end. The traditions of europe involve trancendence within a human context, not trans-humanism. That can only be accomplished by a radical shift in the scientific method towards qualia, using christianity as a framework.

>>11645873
>christianity is still useful spiritual tech. The concept of a saviour who absorbs sin is inherently valuable, and monotheism is necessary to keep ego cohesion, rather than exploding your identity into dozens of disjointed parts like humans used to live in the past.

>I literally don't see anything wrong with having the foundations of life be a lie just because I think it makes white society work good

Spiritually dead, mentally inept, morally retarded. once you've lost faith you can't keep clinging to it, do you not understand the significance of God is dead?

>>11645875
who's the materialist now? Political and economic systems mean very little, architecture is a much better gauge because it preserves images essential to thought. Russia has taken much, much more care in preserving it's architectural heritage in places like moscow and st. petersburg than any asian country because the images of the past aren't dead there yet as they are in the souls of orientals.

>>11645875
the russian belief system is just alcoholism and being pessimistic, which the SU actually further entrenched

>>11645885
Society as a whole lost faith, it's still possible for the individual. I know because I've lived it

>>11645839
To say that beauty exists objectively is also by necessity to say that every possible distinctive mode of viewing the phenomenal world or every possible distinctive quality of it which can be perceived and described that exists in the different languages systems and different sensory organs among the millions or billions of intelligent lifeforms in the entire universe also exists in principle objectively. There is no strong reason why beauty is any different from how something roughly similar to it may be perceived or regarded differently among any of them, hence it's not really objective. I don't really care about the seriousness of the alien argument and the same argument can be made without involving aliens (I just use it as illustration) here but it goes to show that there is nothing really universal about the human concept of beauty but is just a contingent conception particular to us which is not really universal. Did beauty exist in principle before the universe expanded? What about all the other abstract concepts of every other lifeform in the universe did those exist in principle too before the big bang? The only thing which can be truly objective is that which is beyond all contingencies.

Why is it that swarthy meds keep thinking being white means building temples and painting instead of actually being white? And then go all
>n-never wanted to be white anyway

whites existed and were valuable before the Minoans and greeks and romans adopted ant/honeybee concepts of civilization. from the fertile crescent.

>>11645895
Individualism is a neurotic and narcissistic >>11645898
sham.

>>11645870
I'm not denying that they did and it was admirable of them to do so. The point remains that the scourge of modernity and it's associated modes of thought first arose in the west for a reason, and the fact that not every eastern country was able to 100% resist it being imposed upon them doesn't change that modernity itself is the unholy spawn of western culture.

>>11645898
>every possible distinctive mode of viewing the phenomenal world or every possible distinctive quality of it which can be perceived and described that exists

Logos exists irregardless of nous. Beauty is an spectrum with an absolute ideal that may never manifest itself.

>>11645918
it is and it isn't really. I used to think it was a negative, but it's a very good survival mechanism when society as a whole is sickened.

>>11645865
talking to your past self?

>>11645898
>before the big bang?
lol wtf is this? If the big bang ever happened it's not the beginning of everything. it's bound to the physical world, existence needs an imparter of actuality that exists outside the makeup of what it moves (even if it is able to mingle with it)

>>11645909
You're not white though, you're American so you can stop telling actual white people what being white means.

>>11645935
It's not heroic (or possible) to retreat into the woods while the whole world burns around you. No man is an island.

>>11633678
Thanks, looks interesting

>>11645920
I mean you're right in that point, but we can only be who we are. I'd rather be cancer than become something totally foreign. That being said, we can be Faustian without being trans-human.

>>11645462
the seed of degeneration was born with democritus and his atom, but it didnt really germinate until the rennaisance
science is the fuckin devil bro

>>11645952
White isn't a genuine identity and only exists in the presence of the "non-white" regardless, southern Europeans have never been white, genetically or metaphysically. They stopped being white as soon as they migrated to the south and started importing semetic traditions and DNA.

>>11645956
I meant survival for the culture as a whole. Certain ways of thinking that develop from individuals will be adopted by society if they seem beneficial, as opposed to society as a whole blindly stumbling to its death.

>>11645970
This. Based De Miastre was right that Francis Bacon was the fucking anti-christ

>>11633660
>Serrano is allowed, Devi is not
Devi is at least philosophically sound, it's Vedic/Hinduist tradition applied to national socialism. I like her a lot. Serrano meanwhile is a cock gobbling spic retard who just copied and pasted Jungian psychology, UFO retardation, lowest tier gnosticism, Tibetboo occultism and Hitler into one incoherent mess.

>>11645972
it's almost like race is a social construct

>>11645994
Race is a biological and metaphysical reality. Attitudes towards race are socially constructed.

>>11645994
more like race refers to more than a single idea. There is biological race, and socially constructed "race" in the spenglerian sense of a people connected through shared tribulations. Both exist, but are different. This confusion of meaning is the same thing that's happened with sex and gender.

>>11645972
>white doesn't exist
>this isn't white btw
It doesn't really matter anyway, you're a meme automaton so there's nothing to gain in discussing with "you". Even if I showed "you" the truth your mechanical mind wouldn't let you out of the loop.
Good luck, hopefully this'll help.

>>11646007
Yes. Noble blood and commoner blood makes them a different race metaphysically (and with eugenics to some extent biologically) this doesn't makes a white and black noble the same race/equivalent however, they are about as equally different from each other as they are with commoners that share their DNA.

We know tabula rasa is a lie from inherent phobias alone, so without hierarchy, it's possible that castes could have more in common with each other than with the same caste of a different biological race.

>>11645997
I wouldn't be so sure of it being a metaphysical reality, if you mean the spiritual nation of a person which for most of history was associated with a specific idea of a race, then you are correct.

>>11645972
>white race isn't real but X aren't white
Every time

>>11645979
The Indians were lucky enough to nip atomism in the bud and delay modernity because Vaisheshika's atomism conflicted with the Vedas and came to be regarded as wrong until nobody payed attention to it anymore.

>>11646023
I said white wasn't a genuine identity, it's existence is contingent on the non-white. Ethnicity's amalgamated as white are actual races. I hoped you would have some understanding of this considering you talked shit about rootless americans.

>>11646038
pretty much every time someone says "X concept that has been discussed coherently for many years and related to countless debates isn't real" they're full of shit. You can dislike a coherent concept, you can wish to destroy it, but if it is coherent than it is real. I dislike trans-genderism for instance, I believe it would be better classified as a mental disorder, but it's certainly real.

>>11646035
metaphysical race is hierarchical castes. it's the recognition that egalitarianism is a sham. History/culture development is probably more closely tied to the biological aspect. Race is more than shin colors and skull shapes after all.

>>11645945
It's just for illustration just like the aliens, but it remains true that there is no way to show that beauty exists objectively. If beauty can exist objectively than there is no reason why every other abstract concept in the mind of every living being in the universe cannot exist objectively in principle too and at that point what relevance or meaning does the term objective even have anymore.

>>11645924
Absolute ideals don't exist, there is only one Absolute which is infinite and if something is delimited by a certain limit like if it's seen as the highest ideal of a particular concept, then by the fact that it pertains to and is thus delimited by that particular concept it is conditioned and hence no longer absolute. Infinite is without limits, that which is non-infinite is made non-infinite by the conditions that delimit it, that which is conditioned is non-absolute, anything pertaining to a specific concept like beauty cannot be Absolute. This has been known by easterners since at least the 2nd millennium BC and no one has ever come up with a solid refutation of it because it's true.

>>11645643
read a history book desu

>>11645644
imagine actually getting btfo by usury in the 21st century lol. literally <90 IQ behavior

>>11646041
DNA disagrees. Europe is very homogenous, a Russian is genetically closer to an Englishman than a Gujarati Indian is to a Bengali from eastern India. White races forms a very tight cluster. Of course, you can act like every European nation is a race of its own but if you're operating on that level of pilpul you might as well claim every village in Sweden is a separate race.

>>11646096
keking at this anon not getting the point.

>>11646101
> but if you're operating on that level of pilpul you might as well claim every village in Sweden is a separate race.

it's almost like race is a tribe and not a nationality. Where there is a little difference, there is a big difference. Mutt.

>>11646092
people rarely died of tooth decay before dense, easily available carbs.

>>11646119
the degree of difference just changes the amount of ideology you have to use as glue to hold people together. Big racial differences = massive ideology needed, like burger flag worship. I guess a good definition of distinct race might be the point where ideology needed to hold a people together reaches some critical low point.

>>11646117
I find you laughable as well

>>11646091
>Absolute which is infinite
what does this even mean. if there is no end there is no understanding.

I'm sorry buddy but orientals aren't very beautiful.

>>11646131
*corpse continues to rot from usury*

>>11646119
Not a mutt. Race is something that should be evident to the naked eye and an uneducated observer - the difference between blacks and whites is so evident even little kids will recognize which is which after being shown pictures. It's a biological category, not something determined by language, culture or allegiance.

>>11646140
>Not a mutt
T.English,italian and french.

>>11646140
we're talking about dividing a spectrum here. No shit you can tell x-rays from ultraviolet, we're trying to divide red from orange. That part is socially constructed.

>>11646144
I'm not American. Also stop perverting the original /pol/ meaning of the mutt meme which was someone with non-white DNA, not a mixture of English Europeans and French Europeans. /int/ is a retarded board.

>>11646155
More like you're trying to divide tangerine from yam, without realizing both are juat a shade of orange.

Absolute cringe at anyone unironically peddling Evola or Guenon as insightful.
>my system is totally better guys!
>i can reduce the entirety of the last 2000 years down to one thing
I honestly believe that people who peddle this shit have never picked up a history book in their lives. Wouldn't be surprised either since /lit/ seems to be so averse to it. Imagine UNIRONICALLY believing that the fate of western civilization was set in stone from the beginning. Pathetic larpers on the same tier as horoscope readers.

>>11646182
evola is some of the dumbest shit, definitely embarrassing

>>11646180
>the original /pol/ meaning
underage and brainlet. this was a discussion in america when all the ethnicity's were ghettoized. Even now you have italian jewish hybrids mockingly called pizza bagels despite both being brown semites.

>>11646182
>>11646193
The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There are 2 types of traditionalists:

The sentimental, 4chan /pol/ -type of traditionalist:
Wants to bring back chivalry: M' Lady type of stuff from cartoons. Longs for the past or WASP type of societal roles and society of post-war America. Afraid of rap music and seems darker skinned people hostile elements of the cosmos he inhabits. Does not reject modernity, but clings to some idealized boomer ideal and considers 1950s White America the peak in human history

Real traditionalist:
Understands that all symptoms of modernity are morbid manifestations and perversions, especially "The American Spirit" and United States in general being Satanic mockery of traditional societies where metaphysical truths prevailed before advent of modernity.
Does not worship science, evolution, historicity, objectivity, rationalism as the Gods of our century: but seems them as symptoms of Modernity to replace Quality with Quantity.
Understands the difference between Materia Prima and Materia Secunda.
Understands that the highest pursuit is not the preservation of specific traditions, which are manifestations of deeper principles, but the recovery of metaphysics, which allows us to discern the truth and falsehood of principles in the limited sensory world, and separate real traditions from pseudo-traditions, counter-traditions, and anti-traditions.

>>11646182
I don't even like evola since he was an asshole dilettante, but people who limit themselves like you do are pathetic.

>>11646221
I've unironically read several works of Evola (wow who knew people on /lit/ read?), don't see how I'm limiting myself. Was rather disappointed after seeing him shilled so hard on here.

>>11646208
>Understands that the highest pursuit is not the preservation of specific traditions, which are manifestations of deeper principles, but the recovery of metaphysics, which allows us to discern the truth and falsehood of principles in the limited sensory world, and separate real traditions from pseudo-traditions, counter-traditions, and anti-traditions.

correct. Some have a misconception that tradionalism is just wanting to recreate the past and assume everything was perfect then with rose tinted glasses and not just import the model which would lead to similar foundational results, but not a literal time machine.

>>11646208
why does everyone have this belief that everything is "wrong"? commies, traditionalists, liberals, libertarians, religious nuts, etc. all claim that there is some big problem in the world, shit seems fine to me, idk what u fags are all worked up over

>>11646198
Wrong, it was a mockery of Americans who called various European nations non-white, even though USA itself barely has a white plurality and their government considers Jews, Middle Easterners and Pakis white for statistical purposes. It's pointing out the utter hypocrisy of Americans.

>>11646208
>Afraid of rap music and seems darker skinned people hostile elements of the cosmos he inhabits

This is true and trad as fuck though. Rap music, and darkies even having any real estate in your head is modernist as fuck.

>>11646235
>Pathetic larpers on the same tier as horoscope readers.
you're quite clearly a materialist realist. Even if I don't believe in astrology or Evola or whatever, there are aspects of it that are interesting and useful.

>>11646240
>why does everyone have this belief that everything is "wrong"? commies, traditionalists, liberals, libertarians, religious nuts,

There is problem with your classification:
Communism, liberalism, libertarianism, religious fanaticism are all modern symptoms.

Traditionalism is not a modern symptom, for metaphysically it started existing when time began.

>>11646240
>shit seems fine to me
hopefully not for long normalfag

>>11646252
Didn't say Evola himself. Merely the people who peddle him as the end all, be all solution for the west, etc. Those who rail against Christianity etc. Of course there is something to learn from every author, however minute it would be.

>>11646266
He's not for your species.

>>11646269
Yeah, go larp somewhere else lmao. /pol/ posters are more sincere than this shit.

>>11646250
It is just one symptom of modernity and refined Afro-Caribbean rhythmic dances of frenzy now ultra-produced by westernized music technology coupled with subversive imagery of violence, drugs, racemixing, murder and taboos.

Real traditionalist would not shelter himself from such morbid influences and try to outright deny for such music to exist, but approach the subject with curious interest and eventually classify it as nothing more than another symptom of Kali-Yuga.

>>11646276
You need to be human to have humanity.

>>11646282
>eventually classify it as nothing more than another symptom of Kali-Yuga.

As if that means we wouldn't be perturbed by it. If you don't have any visceral reactions to modernity you don't actually believe in anything, you just think it to be true mentally. it's internalized Nihilism. I'm scared of rap music and darkies and everything else because i'm a coward in this brave new world.

>Understands the difference between Materia Prima and Materia Secunda.
can I get a short explanation on this

>>11646300
>I'm scared of rap music and darkies and everything else because i'm a coward in this brave new world.

Well I get most of my expressions from the world wide web. I do not actually know what it is to live in multicultural society these videos portray. I can say that being lived and born here on the Northern european countryside is akin to escape many symptoms of modernity while enjoying some of them.

Even visiting a largest city 2-3 hour drive (population over 100.000) fills me with anxiety. I probably would do much worse in any bigger setting.

I still imagine all of this coming to end: hordes of dark mulatto races, starving and driven by economic crisis to feed on the raw crops in ravenous hunger: endless seas of immigrant races surrounding my house and slowly enforcing their way in to look for any food left and eventually resorting to cannibalism while my white penis is made into some voodoo fetish type of ingredient.

>>11646300
how can you be scared of a culture you were born into? I understand that rap is imperfect and a deviation from beauty, but it doesn't scare me because I was never alive outside of modern times.

>>11646323
You are spiritually dead and haven't kept traditional truths with you. Literally Untermensch. Tabula rasa is a lie, people with natural wisdom get uncanny valley from every aspect of modernity, and it's not because they can't/don't succeed in it.

>>11646335
this is one of those rare times where "you're a hypocrite for typing on the computer on 4chan" actually applies. You're full of shit and you know it. The ideas behind your post are true to an extent, but you've made yourself into some sort of savior.

>>11646359
Traditional values aren't rare retard. Whites have just atrophied massively. Literal niggers with 60IQs have more common sense and instinctually believe various traditional values. it's called common for a reason. You been an untermensch has nothing to do with me. Just know that if you do not understand you can not understand.

>>11640552
The foundations of Western Civilization are a result of it's people, with religion X or Y, Europeans are responsible, not anything else.

>>11642954
I was raised with the church, one month into survive the Jive YouTube channel and I've ordered 12 books related.

This is the future for the European people, it is where we will once again, and hopefully forever find our soul, our identity, a return to Christianity is nothing more than an illusion, it is not our indigenous religion, it is not European, just like a Jew is not a Muslim.

Big things will start to appear before the individual who realises that religion/meaning/identity is the backbone of civilization, and those civilizations that discard it die off, look at the Western world today, the only country where the secular birthrate is above replacement is in Israel, the future belongs to them.

This will be our future, whether on Earth or on Mars, wether as a minority in our homelands or as a majority in our new home. I truly believe this, and I will continue reading, studying and working to make it happen.

>>11645839
hard-hitting post

>>11646140
>he can't see the difference in phenotypes on the street
lmao

>>11645386
>claiming Schmitt as a right-wing thinker is highly questionable.

You're kidding right?

>>11646601
Christianity has been a European religion since 325 AD. It spawned wonders no human could ever think about and brought the continent to its peak.
If pagan beliefs were hierachically above it then why are they extinct?

Thoughts?

BTW "trad" is trash, accept the power of technology you ape

>>11646769
>Walter J. Ong (November 30, 1912–August 12, 2003) was an American Jesuit priest

cringe

>>11646773
Should I have poasted Mcluhan for you to not dismiss it

>>11646783
>Mcluhan
>McLuhan had a lifelong interest in the number three(e.g., the trivium, the Trinity) and sometimes said that the Virgin Mary provided intellectual guidance for him personally.

cringe

>>11646785
I'm not a crhstian either anon

This thread is pure cringe.

>>11646755
That says nothing about it's merits, it did spawn some beautiful things, but at the end of the timeline all these wonders came from the hands of European people. Wether it would be paganism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, the European adapts, after all we don't have the oldest civilisation, but our culture as spread like no other culture around the world.
But when works of beauty or ugliness emerge from this religion, it's the European who is the sole originator.
Just like the jew might be a Buddhist and write great works, it originates in his jewishness.
Christianity was only a framework, the future of Europe belongs to those who realise that we should look inward, and start putting our faith on our people just like the jews do.

>>11646135
>f there is no end there is no understanding.

Yes exactly, it cannot be reached conceptually in the mind but can only be directly experienced. The only way to describe it is through negation, the 'not this, not this' of the Upanishads.

>>11645419
>Guénon talks about how the Greeks didn't understand metaphysics or even their own traditions (that turned into conventions, "the gods of the city", etc)
>that the Greeks were the first cosmopolitan society
>they were so superficial (in their affinity for forms, etc) that instead of focusing on primordial metaphysical principles they were into "pratical" and material stuff
>they invented science because they simply misunderstood everything
>they are to be blamed for the materialism, pathological faustianism and meaninglessness of modern society
>philosophers like Heidegger seem to agree with Guénon about this

Traditionalists actually don't like western civilization

>>11646819
cringe

>>11646819
>look I said it again
>now where's my gold

>>11647442
>actual Traditionalists actually don't like civilization
FTFY

>>11647442
They don't like how it turnes out but many of Trad authors have a long list of western things that they like such as Neoplatonism, Pythagoras, Scholasticism, the Medieval Era, Philo, Bohme, Eckhart, select ideas of Plato/Aristole etc. Even Guenon viewed Neoplatonism as Traditional but because of it not being an established religion it was sorta destined to fade way.

>>11646139
nah man I’m okay, sorry you’re a brainlet

>>11647442
Did anyone ever explain this gay greenphrase? How exactly did the inventors of metaphysics not understand it? Did ʿAbd al-Wāḥid Yaḥyá simply need to justify his universalist larping?

He's not really a traditionalist, but what do you guys think of Moldbug?

>>11647521
>How exactly did the inventors of metaphysics not understand it?

The Hindus were doing metaphysics hundreds of years before any of the pre-Socratics

>>11647632
Okay, even if true that leaves us with Western metaphysics. How did they not understand what they wrote? It's dumb as fuck to say such a thing.

>>11647632
Meme. Hindustan had nothing but simplistic paganism until Alexander the great introduced philosophy and it was all basic until a reactionary backlash against the buddhist movement.

>>11633660
What is the difference between the Traditionalist and Perennialist schools?

>>11646041
If non-whites didn't exist white would still be a thing, we just wouldn't say "white" which is a word defining a limited number of genetic possibilities that would get exchanged for another, be it humankind or something else you absolute brainlet.
Don't think too hard about this scenario though or you might go POOOF:D

>>11647658
Wrong faggot. Chandogya and Brihadaranyaka are 10th-7th c. BC (both pre-Buddhist and pre-Socratic and even western scholars admit this). Most of the major concepts in Buddhism are found already expressed in them, Buddhism itself was just a partially heterodox spinoff of Upanishad metaphysics meant to make it more accesible to plebs who otherwise wouldn't have the chance to study or wouldn't be smart enough to get things like Vedanta.

>mfw because Buddhism's been popularized by new-age retards everyone's memed into only studying it in the west and they accept as true all these inaccurate claims about Hinduism and the origins of Buddhism made by Buddhist authors who don't know shit
>mfw watching Buddhists squirm and whine when you point out that Buddhism's irrefutably just a product of Hinduism that took most of its ideas from it

>>11647793
The smugness, (imagined) superiority and totally loathsome style of writing always reveals the Advaita Vedanta poster of /lit/

Can he read sanskrit? No.
Has he understood Advaita? Probably not.

Kys my man.

>>11647811
>impolitely make a wildly inaccurate claims
>someone makes a similarly impolite reply BTFOing you
>guess I gotta try to salvage my sense of self-worth by casting aspersions on the person who refuted me...

How could I be smug in any way other than ironically if believe that there's fundamentally no difference between me and anyone else?

Hindustani's are only traditionalist because they think it will mean whites will take them seriously. There is no genuine understanding just a chip on their shoulder and a desire to be considered top dog amoung the races aloneside europeons.

>>11647973
Are you a Paki? I've only ever seen Pakistani posters use that word.

>>11647959
>Gautama Buddha made heterodox spinoff of Vedanta metaphysics for stupid people
>Frogposters like me totally "get" Vedanta

You are a special kind of retard

>>11643869
>I never gave her a big, hot load :( only sad dribbles :/

>>11643869
Your mentality and style of writing are both absolutely pathetic reddit tier

>>11633660
>Evola smoking a cigarette
>Looking bitter as fuck

Kali-Yuga must be hell of a ride

>>11648026
Like 80% of the posts on /lit/ mine was counched in multiple layers of irony and joking-hostility but the general points I made are true. I have yet to see any refutation for what i wrote, calling me retarded or a frogposter doesn't change that you can find the basic outlines of Buddhism in pre-Buddhist Upanishads.

>>11648084
>>11648084
I honestly have my doubts that you have more than superficial understanding of Buddhism and buddhist terminology in general or why did Gautama Buddha did form his own Doctrine.

You strike me as a fellow who read Guénon´s "Man and His Becoming according to the Vedanta" in his 20 -somethings and stopped at that and now being degenerated into a smuggish frogposter who repeats himself over and over again in various threads killing any fruitful discussion.

>>11648084
> I have yet to see any refutation for what i wrote
it's all based on delusion. You will believe any hindustani lies about how old shit is and its origins (which you think is important due to feelings of internalized inferiority.) You are just we wuzing when you pretend india wasn't the same simplistic copper age collection of tribes as most of the world.

Upanishads aren't pre Buddhist. Pre-buddhist hinduism was the generic cult worship of poorly understood deities who make it rain and shit as you see in india today.

>>11648127
>Doesn't refute anything I wrote and just relies on various ad-hominem attacks

Try again kid. And for your information I have a deep interest in and respect for Buddhism and have studied it a fair amount but if people are just going to shitpost about Hinduism it's not worth my time to respond seriously and I can quite easily shitpost about Buddhism back at them.

>>11648139
Listen you dirty Paki rat. I'm a white person living in the west, I couldn't give a shit about India vs. Pakistan. It's transparently obvious though that you are just some shitposting Paki (nobody else uses the word 'Hindustan') who knows little about Hinduism and are just using it as a proxy to attack Indians because of your hatred for them. I don't care one way or another but if you are going to go so far as to say that academics are wrong when they date certain Upanishads as pre-Buddhist without giving any reason why other than saying they are lying it's clear you are just arguing from emotion.

>>11633660
God, I hope I look that bitter and disappointed at that age. Greatest sign of being in the know to some deep shit while simultaneously living in the worst of human ages yet.

>>11648261
>i'm a white person in the west
lmao i'm sure you aren't some swarthy brown person larping as a spritual aryan.

I'm white with blonde hair and blue eyes. Only street shitters think anyone else even thinks about them. White people don't hate pakis with the same vitriol as you hindus because we never think about them or have any contact with them anywhere but ordering coffee at tim hortons and laughing at them in school because the girls have unibrows and mustaches.

>>11648295
>this entire post
Y I K E S

>>11648295
> White people don't hate pakis with the same vitriol as you hindus because we never think about them or have any contact with them anywhere but ordering coffee at tim hortons and laughing at them in school because the girls have unibrows and mustaches.

Oh, so do you mean aside from the notorious Paki pedo rape gangs in the UK that has made the entire country despise them?

>>11648325
>anglo
>white

Going to be honest, didn't think this thread would blow up the way it did. Will put more effort into the OP next time
>>11645357
I've read Decline of the West, it's traditional but not reactionary. And Jünger's war as an inner experience is again traditional

This thread brought to you by /int/. Try /int/ now available on /lit/!

None of you, white or brown, have any sound argument against skepticism.
>I don't like it, so it must be wrong!
>Now we can make up a metaphysics and pretend our ancestors believed it too!
Acceptance of skepticism has been the true salve for the suffering of humanity. Skepticism will take us to the stars while your path leads only to a death still wondering how atman got in your navel.
And yet westerners have a tradition, still continually practiced if weakly, that might save you. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader, since it benefits me little to help you.

>>11648894
Vapid Nihilist.

>>11648071
Can you give me the redpill, ah, please, sir?

>>11648935
Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu, read Devi

>>11648905
Sad. Your rhetoric won't even keep your own children from apostasy.

>>11647737
I (OP) put the distinction there after the multiple "traditionalist" threads that were here previously and everyone in that thread stated multiple times they hated Evola and he was kicked from the school for multiple reasons. However the school themselves always preferred the Perennial term to Traditional, unlike Evola. Since he was kicked from the Perennial school (with the exception of Guenon who was his friend until death even when they were angry at each other), the influence Evola made could not be described as that of Perennialism but of Traditionalism. Evola actively worked to show that all of tradition didn't have the path to true enlightenment but only that those of the Solar did while the Perennial school denies this distinction. In fact, most of the Perennial school is Islamic and Christian stuff, while Traditionalists focus either more on the non Abrahamic metaphysics or of the Metaphysics of modernity. That's why I put Jünger there, he was not friends with Evola but did show how the metaphysical spirit of the Warrior can rise above modernity in his first 10 or so books.
tldr; main difference is the Perennial school split into Islamism and the Traditionalists became more relevant to the west.
Going to be honest, need to find more Traditional authors. I didn't really want to put Spengler there but he has some likeminded similarities

>>11633660
>devi is not
Why?

>>11634956
>abandons his nation
>runs away to egypt
>converts to islam
>marries an arab
H*CKING BASTE

>>11646601

How do you account for the Faustian soul of the west, the great cathedrals, etc., being realized under Christendom?

>>11649285
>Sad.
>>>r/thedonald

>>11649636
Christendom is a meme and never existed. The Church was never christian, when you introduce pagans to Christianity you don't convert christians, you just paganize Christianity.

This was Evola's favorite Fascist leader
Why haven't you read his book anon?

>>11645956

Assuming the "you" retreating into the woods is a family or a small community, not just one guy, then it could be wise and heroic and necessary.

>>11649654
Okay, that's a valid response. That's like what Camille Paglia argues in Sexual Personae

>>11649627
that would be EH, a separate thing. She also believe AH would end the Kali Yuga instead of just creating a golden age in it.
Not really relevant and when she is she creates less basis for her theories while Serrano actually has read the metaphysicians more to know what the proper path is
>>11649661
Still reading Evola

>>11645935
Individualism is Jewish behaviour.
Just because we're living in the age of kali and our fellow man is completely Judaified to the core, it doesnt mean you should abandon them, or think of yourself as above their plight.
They need help whether they realise it or not.

>>11649636
>faustian
>good

>>11649654
Yes and no
True the church is partially paganized
But that's because christians adopted pagan traditions and claimed they were christian, to make it easier for conquered populations to convert and to make ot harder for the pagans to continue to practice their religion without persecution
this statement ignores the fact that christians slaughtered their own race and destroyed ancient knowledge / traditions for a jewish desert mystic cult

>>11649577
>In fact, most of the Perennial school is Islamic and Christian stuff, while Traditionalists focus either more on the non Abrahamic metaphysics or of the Metaphysics of modernity.

That's wrong though. Guenon studied and wrote way more material on Hinduism than Evola or Eliade ever did, when you add in Pallis, Coomaraswamy and Schuon they wrote way more on eastern doctrines than the people you list as 'traditionalist', is the root of this distinction just that you don't like people who became sufis or something?

>>11648894
>Skeptics
People who do not have the balls to make up their damn minds because they're afraid they might look retarded.

>>11649846
this
they're also people who are too scared to go to source material and learn about the world
they almost always only read authors that they already agree with, or they dont read at all and just follow some youtube nobody
prime example:
https://youtu.be/qxwkAlK84vk
>reads jewish-american capitalist's view on national socialist germany
>expects this to be an unbiased source

>>11649808
Yes that may be that they wrote of it, but in the end Guenon, Schuon, and Coomaraswamy did become Abrahamic believers. Was actually going to get Pallis myself, but it is true he disavowed Evola along with everyone but Guenon.
And so what if they wrote on eastern doctrines more than Evola or Eliade? We are not the east and the modern east is just as degenerate as the modern west is.

>>11649730
They didn't adopt benign pagan traditions. they just used Christianity as a hollow shell that only had any illusion of being genuine in the monasteries (the perhaps mythical ones that weren't full of monks getting the nuns pregnant and crudely aborting the babies) it takes a radical perversion of doctrine to think a christian could be anything other than a fearful, humble beggar who routinely whips himself and then whips himself again upon sensing that he might feel better for whipping himself.

>>11649871
>they almost always only read authors that they already agree with,

open mindedness is a lie. You aren't going to learn anything by reading anathemas to your sensibilities. In reading something you are trying to get a better understanding of, you will either become zealous or disillusioned with it. You just have to be honest with yourself and ask if you are reading something for truth or because of some deep seated psychological issue/internalization of inferiority. if that's the case no amount of self-help books or 'redpilling' is going to change your natural disposition.

>>11649808
>>11649881
I should note Evola also wrote more on non abrahamic traditions as a whole than the rest of them combined. hell he wrote 3 just on taoism, only 2 on hinduism. His main specialty was pagan religions of antiquity and the middle ages

>>11648905
>if I play pretend I am not a nihilist

>>11644572
Honestly the 100 page intro to Men Among the Ruins, the one with the Michael Moynihan contributions, is one of the best crash courses on Evola's life and work I have encountered

>>11649932
What?

>>11649951
>I should note Evola also wrote more on non abrahamic traditions as a whole than the rest of them combined

wut? between Guenon, Pallis, Schuon and Coomaraswamy they wrote some 20-35 books about non-abrahamic eastern doctrines. Also if you are solely relying on Evola you are going to misunderstand stuff. While he understood some stuff well he also makes basic mistakes about other eastern ideas.

bump.

>>11649846
>>11649871
>>11649984
You think skepticism is easy? How many can alight on the point of the atom? Do not fall to the perennial neurotic illusion; panic over dread is a poor oblation. Do not succumb to dread over panic; atruths are a non-thing.

pic related, it's your defense mechanism.

>>11642992
Yeah which means it has it's place in society respectfully if you by imply "higher" that racialism should be one of the base instincts of man

>>11651220
it's funny because that photo is the argumnet kant used to disprove skepticism (which is retarded btw and it's what 2000 years of western canon has disproven)

>>11651239
>Thinking Kant successfully argued anything
>Thinking the west hasn't spent thousands of years unsuccessfully repudiating the undeniable lack of truth.
Wait, isn't this whole thread about how the western canon done messed up? Which side are you on?

someone better make a new thread when this one dies

>>11652252
i'll make a better OP next time, this was just a pop into my head after reading the (great) plotinus thread that was up the other day. I didn't really create a proper discussion for the thread.

>>11653001
Try to emphasize metaphysical discussion, there's a billion other places people can debate race, politics, the personal lives of Traditionalist, doctrinal minutia, etc.

>>11643536
Excellent poast

>>11649881
>Coomaraswamy
but he was hindu?? his son was catholic. you getting them mixed up?

>>11653250
I know, I made sure to upvote it!

>>11655302
>t. OP

>>11653001
>>11653056
Someone going to do this?