/lit/ - Literature

>>11644832
Keep reading. The final form is leftism.

>>11644842
This, the Frankfurt School is the biggest defender of Classic European art

So there really are people that became right wing over fashwave aesthetics and greek sculptures?

PROTIP: every traditionalist that isn't Catholic is just a meme. If you're looking for the "tradition" of the West, go walk inside a cathedral in Europe. Or read de Maistre.

>>11644844
As far as I know, the frankfurt school is jewish in it's origin - and from what I gathered on the topic, the jews (just as the greeks) have cultural characteristics that are related with this materialistic and cosmopolitan tendency

Why are the black parts moving when I scroll along this picture?

>>11644832
He also attributes the bad aspects of the western mentality to the interaction between and resulting blend of Greek and Jewish thought but yes he's right.

>>11644842
wrong

>>11644878
As I said, some of their talking points resonated with me

I didn't became right wing because of the aesthetics, but it chaptured my attention (it propelled me to read about the topic)

>>11644883
Not even a Christian but Orthodox is much better than Catholicism, both in its metaphysics and in it's claim to being the authentic church.

>>11644895
>wrong
Wrong.

>>11644903
I don't think either of those assertions hold water, but even if they did, that wasn't really what I was getting at. Orthodoxy doesn't have the presence in the history of the West that Catholicism does, at least not outside of Russia. The whole reason Evola and co. are such memes is because they want to call themselves "traditionalists," but they don't ever treat with the actual traditional religion of Western Europe for 1500 years. They're modernists cloaking themselves in gobbledygook about Dionysus and Vishnu.

>>11644832
>Please enlighten me on this topic

You have to keep reading into the last third of the book and graduate from there to reading actual eastern texts for the answer. If you are just left facing the flaws of Greek/Jewish/Western thought that doesn't solve anything but if you understand eastern doctrines and how the traditional east functions then it will make sense, and by analogy it will allow you to to better pick out and understand the few examples of when the west and western thinkers got it right.

>>11644899
Would you mind sharing a bit of what resonated with you? I'd be really interested in hearing, you seem like an honest enough anon.

>>11644912
If you think Traditionalism is literally about following whatever was the historical custom than you shouldn't even be posting in this thread

>>11644832
The final form is realizing that early medieval Europ, before the advent of widespread currency and urban centers, was the apex of our civilization

>>11644927
>traditionalism
>not about following tradition

>>11644893
It's a gif

>>11644928
>thinks the low point of western civ is the high point

yean and up is down and chicks have dicks

>>11644842
neo liberalism is the final redpill, hillary was based all along. what have we done?

>>11644953
Hey I get that reference

>>11644928
the apex was the renaissance, but the fucking protestants had to fuck it all up. bunch of niggers

>>11644923
I never quite liked the cultural hegemony of the left and it's political correctness, so that's was part of it. Also: Anti-feminism, alarmism over demographic displacement because of irrestricted immigration, enviromentalism, globalism, the memes, being part of some movement...

I was always some sort of social outcast, so the Idea of strong communities, nationalism, etc seemed meaningful.
I have almost no culture and no connection to my ancestors. I was raised without strong values, religion, etc. just some sort of superficial liberalism that seemed to me moral cowardeness. I am still quite confused and alienated, and will definitely keep reading about these topics

>>11644931

Listen kid, I get that because you're Catholic and because you read a De Maistre book that you think that gives you the right to pontificate every time you see the word 'tradition' but Traditionalism in the sense that OP is talking about specifically refers what is known as the 'Traditionalist School' which was started by Guenon (although he rejected that term and never claimed to be the head of anything) and includes Evola, Coomaraswamy, Schuon, Nasr, Lings, Pallis etc.

The Traditionalist writers specifically rejected following custom (or tradition in the sense of a cultural or religious tradition specific to one country/people) for it's own sake. What they refer to as the Tradition is teaching of the Sanatana Dharma (eternal truth), the unchanging eternal reality or highest metaphysical truth which has eternally existed on it's own before mankind and will continue to after them. This truth is reflected in most of the major religions, although in some of them it's cloaked in esoterism and only found in certain sects while in other it's taught openly. If you actually read the primary texts instead of relying on wikipedia descriptions you'll find (if you have the intellectual capacity to pick up on it) that Vedanta, Tantra, Daoism, Sufism, Zoroastrianism, select types of Mahayana Buddhism and even certain kinds of Jewish teachings etc all converge around a similar set of ideas pointing back towards a common truth, this is what the Traditionalists refer to as the Tradition. Tradition in the sense of simply being a cultural or religious custom has nothing to do with this.

You can disagree with this or think it's stupid but you should at least know that's what people are talking about when they refer to Guenon et al so that you don't make an ass of yourself by thinking that they are referring to tradition in the common usage of the word. Some of them disagree over to what extent this is found in various types of Christianity, but that's a whole separate conversion

>>11645012
>i'm a weirdo who can't fit in anywhere

and you think you'll do well under fascism? lol

>>11644832
I think you should just read stuff that sounds interesting or that's mentioned in other books (or threads here) and eventually you'll find your own way of thinking.

>>11645021
I would comfort myself thinking I am alienated because of modernity and that in an ideal society I would do well.
I didn't actually became a fascist though, just gravitated towards right wing communities online. My interest wasn't exclusively political - as I said, the aesthetics are cool and they also have great tips about self improvement, etc

>>11645015
not that anon, and you're right, but you sound like a fucking fag, dude

>>11645060
That's because I'm gay, also it gets annoying to see people post without knowing the least bit of information about what they are talking about

>>11645092
nigga u gay

>>11644842
The final red pill is that every ideology has a time and a place

>>11645102
After I ejaculate into qt trap boipussi I console myself by explaining to them about how it would be much better to live in a Traditional eastern society that properly practiced esoteric metaphysics like the middle east where we would both be killed inshallah.

>>11645012
>>11645050
Honestly fashwave was based on some aesthetics that were already outdated and gone. I'm surprised to see so many alt right kids still posting vaporwave memes and whatnot. I'll never understand what's appealing about fashwave if you've been on the internet for more than a decade.
But also literally every topic you listed are huge talking points on the left as well, at least in my circles. There are plenty of leftists that share your concern with feminism, immigration and displacement, environmentalism (unless you're talking about denying climate change), globalism (many leftists share a strong hate for neoliberals as well), and of course memes and being part of a movement. We just disagree on the cause of these things.
The feelings that drive you to nationalism can be transformed into solidarity.

>>11645137
we have to work together. NAZBOL GANG RISE UP

>>11645137
(I meant preserving the environment. I do believe global warming is a thing)

Yes, very recently I have been sympathizing with leftism to some extent. I realized I was fed with a strawman with the left, and that leftism has nothing to do with globalism or SJWs, it's all about supporting the working class, limiting inequality, etc

I am politically illiterate, but I guess I am mostly opposed to modern neoliberal globalism, I don't care so much about left/right anymore

>>11645092
>That's because I'm gay
kant say i didn't kek there

>>11644883
sell me maistre. What book to start with?

>>11645181
I like you anon I think you're a good guy. I hope you keep reading and find your way.

>>11645164
Is nazbol when youre basically a leftist but also racist?

>>11645196
Thanks, you seem very nice too

>>11645203
its a hybrid of national socialism and communism, national bolshevism, nazbol. the fourth political theory that will take power in the 21st century, the true ASCENDED red pill ideology.

>>11645237
You seem to be a very moderate poster

Guenon isn't even right wing.

>>11645251
He was basically apolitical in that the origins and basis of his views had nothing to do with politics but his ideas fall way closer to what has historically been considered right-wing or reactionary in the west so it's easy to understand why it's mostly right-wingers who read him nowadays and why he gets characterized as right-wing.

>>11645164
It was funny until some tankies started taking it seriously

>>11645237
>blame the RICH JEWS in the AMERICAN GOVERMENT

>>11645301
This but unironically

>>11644832
>>used to be a leftist when younger because of my upbringing
>>eventually got into right wing communities online, some of their talking points resonated with me
So what you're saying is that you've always been an idiot? Can't help you kid.

>>11645385
Pretty alright thread until you showed up.

>>11644883
What if I'm a slav? Can't call me a meme for being orthodox.
heh...

>>11644844
true? based kabbalists.

>>11644832
>Greeks didn't understand metaphysics or even their own traditions
expand

>>11645420
cry about it

>>11645137
Leftism is ineffective at best and an active tool of the elites at worst. Leftism does not threaten any part of the global power structure. Right-wing and pro-White ideologies are actually extremely threatening to the ideas propagated and paid for by the elites of the world, and you can tell this is the case by how hard media and academia work to stamp it out anywhere they see it. Leftism is a joke because even in its purest expression, has simply no effect whatsoever on the exploitative ruling class.

>>11644883
>apostasy
>tradition
https://youtu.be/xyDKezDLGTM

>>11644912
And if I am a russian?

>>11645458
>Right-wing and pro-White ideologies are actually extremely threatening to the ideas propagated and paid for by the elites of the world
How are capitalists a threat to capitalism

>>11645474
Study eastern thought and Neoplatonism proper to better understand the perennial teachings at the heart of E.O.

>>11645574
you can tell this is the case by how hard media and academia work to stamp it out anywhere they see it

>>11645592
Is this literally your only talking point? What a load of shit, if you can't give me anymore than that then you have no idea what you're talking about. Let's talk about why right wing capitalists would be a threat to global capitalism come on I'd like to know.

>>11645609
First, define left- and right-wing (we can use your definitions here), then list five major right-wing capitalists.

>>11645614
Literally not necessary at all just fucking tell me what you mean by right-wing pro-white ideologies being a threat to global capitalism that goes beyond "muh media stamping me out". I don't have to sit here and define left and right with you and fucking list off major capitalists dork just get into it already

>>11645628
First of all, relax. This is the internet, we don't need to rush anything, you can chill out and take your time in responding. No reason to be upset. It's all cool my man.

Second of all, I'm asking you to define terms because, in my experience, most arguments between leftists and rightists (I guess you would call them) are immediately reduced to shitflinging because the definitions have not been made clear and agreed upon. It's as if two different languages are arguing, if this is the case. For the most part, leftists insulate themselves from right-wing media and literature, and vice versa. I'm offering you the chance to set the stage now in a way that is familiar to you, so that we can talk about these ideas in a way that we can both mutually understand. Does that make sense?

>>11645592
Academia tends to be less in favour of capitalism due understanding it.

The media doesn't give too many fucks as long stories sell (well, clicks are gained), and nazis or whatever the faggots want to be called these days are just a great topic. It's simple, people can get a little thrill over the raise of fascism, get a little feel-good vibes over not being one, and so on. A more nuanced topic would never work as well.

>>11645647
You remind me of the dipshit libertarians that I used to talk to in high school. I don't need to define left and right with you, if something comes up that we're not clear on later then we'll deal with it, but for now I'd like you to just explain what you mean by right-wing and pro-white ideologies being a threat to the global elite/capitalism literally ANY FURTHER than just "CNN says bad things about pro-white right-wing shit so it must be against the global order." I'm serious, stop skirting around the topic with definitional games and just start making a point.

>>11645652
>Academia tends to be less in favour of capitalism due understanding it.
But capitalism is not *threatened* by academia. No academic has gotten in the way of unscrupulous elites pilfering the country. The brainwashed idiots with humanities degrees writing endless screeds that nobody but them and their colleagues read and masturbating are not a threat to exploiting common folk anywhere. Academia, in fact, does a great job of producing people who all have basically the same opinion, which just so happens to fit in with corporate diversity policies.

>The media doesn't give too many fucks as long stories sell (well, clicks are gained)
Here's the problem: mainstream media is not profitable. It's propped up by extraordinarily wealthy elites to function as their PR companies. The idea that capitalism is interested EXCLUSIVELY in profits at all times, in all contexts is short sighted. For example, a few years ago after Dylan Roof shot up a church, many major online shopping websites stopped selling confederate flags, and they were quite vocal about this. Why did they do that? They could have simply not done anything. By refusing to sell the flags, many smaller outlets on the internet now had a huge false scarcity profit opportunity. One could say that their virtue signalling increased their profits in the long run, but I find this to be suspect as well. Websites like Amazon, Google, Facebook, and other major tech companies are all recipients of huge amounts of government grants and loans (i.e. tax dollars). They are not private companies, they are public-private partnerships. They are able to afford to get away with reducing their profit margins if their masters (extraordinarily wealthy and duplicitous elite) tell them they are going to push a certain narrative or idea.

I'm going to take a risk here and ask you in the best possible faith to considering listening to this broadcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WdMGx-6kjE
Yes, it's three hours long, and yes JF has a nasty reputation as an alt-righter if you really need to go dig into his reputation. But Frame Games Radio is a guest on his broadcast and what he does is present to you a factual report about the history and the current state of media in the United States. I understand there is a lot of baggage assigned to the topic he talks about here, but I'm telling you in full honesty that I believe he's produced a factual report here, and you can fact check anything he says in there. I realize you're under no obligation to spend a whopping 3 and a half hours listening to this, but I think you could really learn some things that will help grow and refine your understanding of the global power structure as it exists today. I know the cool thing to do on 4chan is be super hostile and call you a faggot, but I think there is something valuable to be gained from this video (and Frame Games Radio's other appearances), even if you don't agree with everything in it.

>>11645659
I want readers to take a look here at the sheer hostility in this post. What motivates this? Ask yourself, was I really making an unreasonable request for clarity at the beginning of the conversation rather than allowing the threads of thought to become a mess of spaghetti later on? I think it's clear that we are both so far separated from each other in the universe of ideas that there is very little common ground for us to use as a starting point. What is so offensive about desiring clarity, and offering him the opportunity to discuss the topic in a way he finds familiar and easy?

>>11645744
You are trying really hard not to answer my question.

>>11645761
Why don't you start by explaining what beliefs or policies you advocate which are not taught or otherwise supported by major corporations and academia. Open borders immigration? Feminism? White privilege?

>>11645810
What the actual fuck does this have to do with anything, would you please answer the question already. It's pretty simple here let me get it for you again.
>just explain what you mean by right-wing and pro-white ideologies being a threat to the global elite/capitalism

>>11644842
>>11644844
jesus christ i forget such filth like you exists sometimes

>>11645744
Easily the most embarrassing post I've read in a while. Jesus christ.

Most internet so-called trads are just using traditionalism as a vehicle for the support of modern political ideas
Like if you look up traditionalism on Twitter you see all these tweets about how this or that Evola quote totally predicted sjws guys

>>11644893
Because you have shit on your screen.

>>11644893
You have schizophrenia

>>11645817
not him but reduction to the common denominator to have more consumers and mass immigration to also in increase more consumers not to mention leftist ideas like any dominant movement contaminate everything the elite capitalists are not robots programmed simply to accumulate wealth and degenerate society they get influenced by ideas

>>11645730
>They are not private companies, they are public-private partnerships.
That's not how capitalism works. The public pays for public companies, just like it pays for research that private companies use to make profit. It's a one sided relationship.

>They are able to afford to get away with reducing their profit margins if their masters (extraordinarily wealthy and duplicitous elite) tell them they are going to push a certain narrative or idea.
Or maybe it's much simpler? They didn't have as many people buying racist merch from them in the first place, by jumping on the train, they will get positive free press, which might be worth more than a couple flags. No idea where you live but here facebook ads/quasi apologies are on every second street these day, imagine how much money they could've saved by getting positive publicity for some small gesture like Amazon did.

>the current state of media in the United States
It's the same shit it was for decades. A fucking movie from the 70s predicted the development if it wasn't obvious enough.

As for the vid, the format is a much bigger issue for me than the guy (I never heard about). Video/audio is inherently a crappy, inefficient medium to gain information. Even when sped up to 1.5x it's fucking painful to listen to shit I could've read in 25% of the time, while understanding more. So if you care about sharing stuff about muh global power structure, at least do it in the spirit of the board and link some article.

>>11645868
>the elite capitalists are not robots programmed simply to accumulate wealth
Have you actually talked to some rich people? Most are just as brainwashed by capitalism as some worker drone, just unlike Tyrone who wants to impress bitches with his new shoes, Richard needs a fifth mansion and a bigger investor to his company to impress his peers.

>>11645115
the final redpill is that ideologies are a mix of people's rather pathetic attempts to understand world historical processes and their delusive desires for a certain kind of future

>>11645868
i think the push for mass migration by european elites is just to break the welfare state, the welfare state never worked in the united states because everyone was mad that a black guy was getting free stuff, as long as european countries are mostly ethnically homogenous it's going to be hard to break because they won't want to see their fellow countryman impoverished, once there is a big enough minority of "others" it will be easier to get people to vote against it, right now you still here people saying about socialism "yeah but what about denmark/norway/whatever" but once those countries are 20% african muslim, they will start to scale back the socialism, the end game is making sure there is no viable example of socialism

>>11645916
but the US literally has a welfare state, insane amounts of money are transferred from the rich to the poor(and from whites to blacks but that's another matter)

>>11645900
>The public pays for public companies, just like it pays for research that private companies use to make profit. It's a one sided relationship.
What I mean is, the richest and most powerful corporate entities in the world today pilfer millions and billions of tax dollars each year. Take a look at Google's parent company, Alphabet Inc. https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=alphabet-inc
$765,634,326 in YOUR money.

>they will get positive free press, which might be worth more than a couple flags.
That's the thing. They are the press. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. There is no independent media. Besides, how would you know if they were getting more sales because they stopped selling something.

>Richard needs a fifth mansion and a bigger investor to his company to impress his peers
Do you think Richard is also not 100% onboard with feminism, open borders immigration, anti-racism, etc? How many CEOs of major corporations are openly in favor of building a wall and supporting

>>11645900
what you dont seem to realize is that contray to what all the new left say capitalism is actually what happens when you reach peak individualism people become mindless hedonists in a vapid culture, you need a high minded culture to inform and regulate you less you become exploited by primeval individual desires all the new left identify politics garbage is going the same way as its predecessors, where people need to be enforced to be individuals which obviously completely backfires in creating the complete opposite of individual expression

>>11645951
Fug didn't finish my post.
Do you think Richard is also not 100% onboard with feminism, open borders immigration, anti-racism, etc? How many CEOs of major corporations are openly in favor of building a wall and supporting explicit White racial consciousness?

>>11645951
>Do you think Richard is also not 100% onboard with feminism, open borders immigration, anti-racism, etc?
>do you think that CEOs can be liberals
Yes absolutely. I don't think they are leftists though, since that would be anti-capitalism.

>>11644842
I'd be more specific, and say it's communism

>>11645961
Okay well, maybe I will be more successful asking you to define leftism than that other guy who for whatever reason didn't want to lay the groundwork for a reasonable discussion.

>>11645916
are you retarded? every capitalist with half a brain realizes the welfare is only going to increase in its gibs basic income will become a necesity for capitalism to survive as nobody will have jobs due to automation/AI and no job equals no money to consume meaning you need to give people money to consume (not to mention basic need products will become much cheaper)

I >>11645961 am not this anon >>11645900 by the way.

>>11645961
are you guys aware that you are the only people who use the term leftist to mean marxist socialists? For most people leftist refers to the entire umbrella of left wing ideologies, encompassing everything from neoliberalism to stalinism to whatever else.

The litmus test is whether the ideas are considered fashionable or at least acceptable by the NYT

>>11645969
Right: Capitalist
Liberal: Centrist, neoliberal
Left: Anti-capitalist
Alright go ahead and run with that.

>>11645916
>the welfare state never worked in the united states
It is ongoing today. I mean fuckin' hell even illegal immigrants can collect welfare gibs from their anchor babies. A welfare state is essential too global capitalism because it makes labor cheaper than slavery. If you own a slave outright, you have to pay for their food and housing and deal with the nasty business of the occasional revolt. If you just keep wageslaves, tax dollars can help to pay for them to continue making shitloads of money for you while you evade as many taxes as possible or just take direct subsidies to pay for more lawyers to write more legislation to let you get more subsidies and crush competition. Open borders is a source of scab labor. Why innovate in agricultural automation and pay an American citizen a decent wage when you can pay some wet backs pennies on the dollar to do back breaking labor?

>>11645986
You Marxists truly live in lala land with your own definitions and grand narratives. The left/right divide is based on a egalitarian vs hirearchy spectrum, its why a fascist nation with a socialist economy falls to the far right.

>>11644883
>God is universal, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, all-loving
>That's why you have to listen to these very limited and arbitrary ideas about God and what he wants us to do, yep

Umm no thanks

>>11644886
Then why were Jews some of the most religious people in Europe prior to WWII?

>>11646003
>The left/right divide is based on a egalitarian vs hirearchy spectrum
I'm laying that out right here, that's exactly what I described. The hierarchy of capitalism on one end, and the egalitarianism of anti-capitalism on the other.

>>11646003
>your own definitions and grand narratives.
it's because they have a fundamentally different view of how history works than most other people. Marxist histroy is a genuinely weird idea, mostly lifted from Hegel, but put into 'scientific'(lmao) terms.

In a conventional view of history you have individual civilizations that rise and fall due to some productive mode, and a conflict of interests between factions of society creating incentive problems, and blah blah. You also have random stuff like invasions from neighboring peoples and environmental problems. Technology is obviously another important factor/.

in Marxist history you have a single rising tide of history that centers entirely on the idea of capitalist production and its effects, with everything else being relegated to a kind of secondary importance.

>>11645916
Germany raped their welfare state a decade before muh refugees. Also you overestimate the cost of migrants A LOT, to stick with Germany, the country got richer every year.

>but once those countries are 20% african muslim
So like in 100 years by the more extreme estimates?

>>11645926
>but the US literally has a welfare state
The military. Shit like food-stamps are basically welfare to companies and add money to the economy.

>>11645951
>the richest and most powerful corporate entities in the world today pilfer millions and billions of tax dollars each year.
>There is no independent media.
Almost as shocking and new as water being wet.

>Besides, how would you know if they were getting more sales because they stopped selling something.
Occam razor. Without going into conspiracies, we can assume how companies make business decisions. It's also not a huge assumption that confederate flags aren't a huge seller either given the very limited market for them.

>Do you think Richard is also not 100% onboard with feminism, open borders immigration, anti-racism, etc?
Depends on his age and education. Overall it's unlikely that he gives too many fucks about this shit, since it doesn't affect his life.

>How many CEOs of major corporations are openly in favor of building a wall and supporting explicit White racial consciousness?
Not too many I assume, since these are pretty idiotic ideas overall and most CEOs are somewhat educated. But of course even if they were for it, being openly for it is risky when the majority of the population isn't, why the fuck would they willingly piss off potential customers, when there is minimal gain? Supporting the person/party who wants to implement the shit with donations while staying as apolitical as possible in the public is a proven tactic.

>>11645980
There are zero people who confuse leftism with neo-liberalism. By definition, it'd make sense if a "leftist" were at least someone of center. So it's rather from suc dems to stalinists.

>>11646016
capitalism and anti capitalism are not the only systems that exist.

>>11646028
Technically you're right but practically his definition is pretty functional and applies to most people.

>>11646028
>private ownership of the means of production
>public ownership of the means of production
And what is the third position then?

>>11646036
Maybe like ... I don't know ... mix it up a little?

>>11645273
While I think he would vaguely agree with reactionaries rejection of materialism, individualism, etc. I think in practical terms he would find their emphasis on race and militarism to be abhorrent. This was a man who literally moved to Egypt and set up a traditional Sufi madrasa after all, I find it hard to believe he would be OK with right-wing calls to "expel brown people" or "hang the kikes."

>>11646025
Yeah its really quite retarded. They have trouble thinking outside of economics at all (that everything is inherently reliant on it) and even more trouble thinking of econonic systems outside of capitalism and marxism/socialism.

>>11646016
Feudalism is hierarchical but not capitalist, ergo rightist, and a capitalist society which completely redistributes wealth would be mostly leftist. Democracy is fundamentally leftist because it allows everyone in the society a voice in the state. Obviously democracy never really exists, but the attempt is a leftist attempt.

If you go full right wing, you have a hierarchial sitaution of Absolute monarch-Nobles/Church-middle class-lower class as well as within each family man-wife-children, which cannot be compromised by outside forces. Ie. every man is absolute monarch over his wife, his wife over his children, etc.

At every level of society that absolute authority over those below would exist.

That system is as unfeasible as true leftism(literally everybody has equal power), because what actually happens is things get codified into laws, and various actors intervene over the dominion of their lowers, and the king is never totally powerful, because he is just a guy, not a god.

>>11645986
See, that definition is completely different from anything that would be used in "right-wing" circles. Leftism there would be Marxism or Leninism as >>11645980 says. "The Right" in right-wing circles is more like a rejection of the notion of equality and an acceptance of hierarchy and authority and tradition. But let's just drop the labels, it's not going to be effective for this discussion. I think we have some common ground in the rejection of global consumerist capitalism. I hate Schlomo probably as much as you guys do, though I doubt you'd call him that. You guys like what, Porky? Is that the name? With the little cartoon pig? Anyway, the point is that global capitalist elites are exploitative to people, but defining "leftism" as "anti-capitalism" is a bit silly. You could arbitrarily say that the people who attended Unite the Right are leftists because of how much push back there was from capitalists. Also, earlier, >>11645900 said
>They didn't have as many people buying racist merch from them in the first place... they will get positive free press
I'm not sure if that's you or not, but it makes me wonder how it was that being anti-racist came to mean positive free press. Were capitalists not involved in promoting this idea? Racism (as in, a preference for one's own race and a distrust or skepticism of other races) has been a staple of all cultures across time and space. Did capitalism cause both racism and anti-racism?

>>11646044
>>11646048
Still waiting on that economic system that's outside of capitalism and socialism/communism.

>>11646031
Only it doesn't, the idea that everything that has free movement of capital is the same mind control slave system (which is a false view) is ridiculous.

>>11646026
>confuse leftism with neo-liberalism.
that's not the point. Monarchy and Fascism are extremely different but they're both right wing right? Same principle. There is no actual middle, but there is a tendency to view personal authority as positive or negative.

>>11646036
>nothing outside economics exists
>only total capitalism or communism exist

Marxists are truly as bad as conspiracy nuts with their simplistic worldviews.

>>11646066
they just have tunnel vision, Marx had this one very interesting idea and it made his followers kind of forget about everything else. Marx himself was actually much more reasonable and openminded about other causal factors

>>11646066
Would still be nice if you threw me something that was neither
>private ownership
>public ownership

Classical Greece was not cosmopolitan. Cosmopolitanism started with Alexander and the Hellenic age.

>>11646071
the point anon is we don't view that dichotomy as the central point of conflict in civilization. We think there are more fundamental things at play, the dichotomy itself is valid, though 'public ownership' has always struck me as a bit ridiculous in the same way the 'voice of the people' in democracy is impractical

>>11646026
>Not too many I assume
Not one. Not a single one. You can not find me a single one. Every single capitalist elite is openly in favor of open borders and not a single one is explicitly pro-White. Why is that? What's idiotic about those ideas, and if education means people have smart ideas, does that mean being an educated capitalist elite means you have smart ideas? Is communism not smarter than capitalism?

>>11646056
I'm guessing you're going to even include feudalism as part of the big bad so nothing can really convince you. You really love simplicity dontcha? You know what lets just do away with private and public ownership and use the term ownership to describe both.

>>11646047
>I find it hard to believe he would be OK with right-wing calls to "expel brown people" or "hang the kikes."
Guenon was born in 1886 and died 1951. He did not live to see mass immigration and what it has become. Do you really think he would be opposed to an ethnic group asserting their right to exist and to have their own exclusive spaces?

>>11646071
So what if you have an even balance of public and private ownership? Do you have to be 100% public ownership to not be capcuck?

>>11646093
How would you even know if it was public or not. Does someone need to be able to walk into a factory and start operating machinery without any scheduling or talking to anybody there?

>>11646047
>I find it hard to believe he would be OK with right-wing calls to "expel brown people" or "hang the kikes."
I don't think he would really care one way or the other. He is enormously dismissive of almost the entirety of humanity, he is a real elitist, about as eltiitst as it is possible to be.

Hang the kikes, or watch the kikes television shows, they're probably both just commoner behavior to him

>>11646072
Every major trading city of the Mediterranean had a major cosmopolitan element.

>>11646085
>I'm guessing you're going to even include feudalism as part of the big bad
Private ownership
>You know what lets just do away with private and public ownership and use the term ownership to describe both.
No ownership would be public ownership.

>>11646109
>No ownership would be public ownership.
so how are decisions made? everyone just gets together and has a discussion about what to do, like i dont really follow how this works

>>11644832
>they were so superficial (in their affinity for forms, etc) that instead of focusing on primordial metaphysical principles they were into "pratical" and material stuff

That's good. Metaphysics is partially nonsense. You live in a universe driven by concrete laws, and with sufficient intelligence, processing power, and time - any concept can be broken down into arrangements of matter/energy. Unless it turns out to be a simulation, the universe is meaningless and anyone who tells you otherwise is objectively wrong; and that's fine, we derive our own meaning and the 'meaninglessness' of modern society is just a result of our existing in a transitionary period. The public perception of the nature of reality hasn't caught up with the science yet, and we don't have the technology to instill arbitrary drives, goals, and compulsions into people yet.

Don't mistake me, I'm not making a commentary on whether traditionalist ideals are right or good, or not. The point I'm getting around to here is that all of our ideals up until this point have been made by humans, for humans. As we begin to alter our fundamental nature, tamper with the substrate of the mind itself, create new intelligences wholly alien from our own nature, there will be great change. It will be important to pick and choose your battles, because a society that refuses to undergo these changes may endure, but it will almost certainly be out-competed and swept aside into irrelevancy. It's much the same as command economies being slowly pushed out by free market systems, because the latter is undergoing more selective pressures, which in turn are a more effective optimizing force. Ideas, just like genes, are subject to selective pressures, and new factors in the environment (rapidly changing technologies) are pressuring old ideas.

>>11646089
He moved to Egypt and took up an Islamic name. Just how much value do you think he put on native ethnicity?

>>11646116
>everyone just gets together and has a discussion about what to do
Actually yes, this would be the greatest control of your workplace and in turn your life. I would look into worker co-ops and how they're organized. Each co-op is different of course and they're trying out different approaches, but at the end of the day I would rather have a day a week dedicated to discussing important decisions and voting on them than I would have a anti-democratic, tyrannical structure that is my current boss.

>>11646052
>the point is that global capitalist elites are exploitative to people
That's a starting point but no, not quite. The problem aren't rich-fags but the system which creates them.

>because of how much push back there was from capitalists
Capitalist half-heartedly opposed Adolf too at some point but managed to get along with him just fine. Pretty much everyone who isn't a nazi isn't a big fan of nazis, so opposition to them doesn't indicate much.

>Racism (as in, a preference for one's own race and a distrust or skepticism of other races) has been a staple of all cultures across time and space.
Education happened. Also the world got a lot smaller. A tribe 100km away was scary couple thousands years ago, today these are the same faggots as you. Just look at European history. We used to be scared and afraid of the weird foreigners who lived behind a mountain, couple centuries later they are seen as same as us.

>>11646081
>Every single capitalist elite is openly in favor of open borders
You wut? Check Trump supporters like Murdoch and that Mercer guy and his clique, plus obviously Trump himself and a decent part of the Republican party, as the most obvious names.

>not a single one is explicitly pro-White.
I can't think of one myself but given just how outdated the idea is, it's not surprising. You don't get to stay a capitalist elite if you get fooled by 20th century science memes.

Besides again, why openly supporting unpopular shit? Jordan wasn't a genius but he knew that "Republicans buy sneakers too", so kept his public comments about politics to a minimum. If you sell shit, you don't want to turn millions of potential buyers away.

>Is communism not smarter than capitalism?
Potentially better for society while almost guaranteed being worse for you as a rich elite. Unless you happen to be a very rare person who cares more about the wellbeing of others than yourself, why would you want to dismantle the system that guarantees that you and your grandchildren's grandchildren will have easy lives?

>>11646109
>literally thinks you should devolve radically different economic divisions and systems into two loose groups

I find it funny that you think lack of ownership equals some form of ownership. Also you still havn't replied about the various other features that determine hirearchy and egalitarianisn. Like I said earlier a fascist nation with a socialist system still falls into the far right due to its elitism.

>>11644832
the locus of guenon's wisdom imo (my knowledge of his work is pretty limited but eh) is that there are no truly new ideas. New ideas are really just old ideas germinated into new times

>>11646132
but what about when people disagree? A decision has to be made and if two or more people just won't agree what do you do?

>voting on them
So actual constant democracy in every single decision? I mean i guess i can entertain the idea, it seems like some people are just way better than others at making decisions like that though, and having to have a comittee decision every single time would be enormously time consuming

>>11646136
>fooled by 20th century science memes.
oh boy.

>muh capitalism
Fucking gay. Capitalism is far from perfect, but it is the best we have. Many negative things that Marxists and other critics attribute to capitalism nowadays are actually the result of corporatism. Corporatism inevitably results from capitalism, which is where a small but strong government should step in. Instead, the governments suck corporate cock and pretend to be capitalists, or socialists even. Oh and socialism is fucking idiotic, it blows my mind how many pseuds here support it when it has never worked properly. But in terms of sheer idiocy, communism takes the cake. Commies are even more stupid than NEETsocs LARPing on pol. Fucking christ.

When will the intellectual left and intellectual right finally unite and fight (((them))). Lets be honest, both sides know its the jews.

>>11646158
You're thinking of corporatocracy not corporatism. The words are costantly mixed up. Corporatism would actually be the ideal economy when automation takes over.

>>11645842
>Like if you look up traditionalism on Twitter
the internet is not reality
it's a fucking toy dude, dont take internet discourse seriously at all

>>11646158
And why wouldn't muh small government start sucking corporate dick? You have a system that syphons most resources to few lucky people and ensures that they will have more and more and more with each generation. They would be pretty stupid not to use the power to gain more power.

>>11646179
what is the difference between internet discussion and discussion through writing on paper or speech?

>>11646168
based nazbol poster

>>11646191
The former actually happens.

>cringe fascists
>braindead commies
Any /monarchy/ man in? I prefer the system that has served us well for millennia. No serfdom needed this time btw.

>>11646201
You might win me over with the aesthetics but then again, commies have the better music.

>>11645458
the only """right-wing""" ideology that's remotely threatening to the global power structure is isolationism for purely economic reasons.

identity politics only helps fuel an engine of reaction, its purpose multi-faceted. it serves as a method of misdirection - tribes are established, ingroup acts, outgroup reacts, becomes a target, mutual antagonism is escalated. yet no tribe is truly in control, it's not a matter of the sorely disenfranchised revolting against an oppressive power structure (like some tend to believe). nor is it a matter of brave cultural vanguards defending their identity from annihilation (like others tend to believe). it's simply a collection of confused proles fighting over their commercialized and commodified labels. keyword is confused, this is how you end up with phenomena like the pampered college feminist who defends islamic fundamentalism, just because the other tribe doesn't. or the supposed alt-right "third positionist" who defends capitalism against his economic self-interests, just because the other tribe doesn't. think of it as the "pissing off libtards" syndrome.

the reaction intensifies in logical absurdity. now you have perpetually impoverished republicans voting for their own death, now you have alleged "progressives" evoking the spirit of joe mccarthy. now you have small government libertarians asking for government intervention. you have socdem-leaning liberals now singing praises of the free market. the liberal is skeptical of intelligence agencies - suddenly he's not. suddenly he loves war. now he doesn't. now he does again. and all this sordid conflict occurs within the limited confines of what's regarded as 'acceptable opinion.' anyone who exists outside of this spectrum is suddenly consumed and digested the moment they try and politicize their identity. whatever label they gave themselves is stripped away, replaced with the colors of team red or team blue.

and in all this time, amidst all this ideology, nothing is accomplished. no progress is made. the "white race" continues to be replaced as only destitute, developing countries produce workers willing to accept the standards whites reject (for good reason). but workers rights and increased wages and unions and so on are """left wing""" (would be the typical reaction further perpetuating the cycle of absurdity)

as for the reason why you're getting censored? get in line. anti-establishment leftists have been getting censored and de-platformed for years, albeit more subtly (twitter mass banning anti-war leftists wouldn't make for good headlines, unless they were accused of being "russian bots" of course). keep in mind that social media representatives were instructed by congress to take active measures against the propagation of "fake news" aka anything that doesn't directly or implicitly support the pentagon & state department. it's absolutely censorship by proxy of the imaginary free market.

>>11646216
>commies have the better music.
??
All the greatest classical composers lived under a monarchy. Most of the best military marches are from monarchies. Besides some meme soviet songs, commies have absolute shit music (and art in general).

>>11646172
Ah yes, it appears to be so. Thank you my friend.

>>11646181
>*hand-rubbing intensifies*
In all seriousness, you are somewhat correct. Trusting the government to act in such a way is perhaps a fantasy.

>>11646196
internet discussion actually happens and the latter two don't?
How on earth is that a reply to my question lol

>>11646227
>forgetting the glorious commie movies

>>11644842
The final form is apolitical. Non millionaires actually giving a fuck about politics is pathetic, should be gassed

>>11646219
who exactly do you think is in control anon?

>>11645458
>>11646219
anyway the point i was trying to make was that this idea of right wing or pro-white ideology being considered too dangerous to allow to continue existing is a meme. the entire idea is to get the general populace (the ones who find themselves comfortable within the spectrum of acceptable/popular opinion) content with the idea of corporations being our new moral compass. it's nothin personnel, the alt-right just makes for the perfect scapegoat.

>>11646047
>set up a traditional Sufi madrasa
he did not do this

>>11646219
Fucking A+ post. But yes, while many leftists who do not toe the line are being censored, I have not seen any major players on the left be deplatformed in such a coordinated manner as Alex Jones has been. Many big voices are being censored from the alt lite, ie Gavin Mcinnes/Proud Boys, Mark Dice, Molyneux etc.

Furthermore, these companies and their leftist protestors claim they are fighting hate and dangerous speech online, yet they go after people like Alex Jones while leaving David Duke and other actual far-right voices on their platforms. I believe that they actually want these far-right people on the platform, as it sort of ties into what you said.

>>11646274
How many of them spread bullshit that lead to motherfuckers getting shot and families of victims harassed?

Now obviously the companies don't really give a fuck Jones begged them to get rid of him by shitting all over the rules. Most talking heads aren't as crude.

>>11646219
Great post anon.

>>11646168
But muh based isreal hating jews!!!! Says the leftist

>>11646219
>socdem-leaning liberals now singing praises of the free market.
Implying succdems weren't always whore for capitalists

>>11646234
this desu. it's used to get the unwashed masses fighting each other over scraps off a table of plenty. you all deserve the fucking rope.

>>11646168
>Hey guys, how awful is global capitalism?
>YEAH, FUCK THE JEWS
>Uhh that's not what I sai-
>IM SO GLAD YOU HATE THE JEWS, GOD I WAS STARTING TO GET LONELY BRO

>>11646234
>>11646329
based

>>11646290
And what of the msm and left wing media that spreads that kind kind of bullshit? How about CNN fucking doxxing a minor who created a gif of Trump slamming CNN to the floor? How about all these Jews I mean journalists who go around calling independent content creators like pewdipie Nazis and alt right? You don't think them and their families get harrassed by a bunch of psychos after that? It's outright defamation. How about tyt going after a 14 year old christian boy broadcasting from his parent's house and basically encouraging millions of their psycho followers to go fuck his channel for the next decade? How about literally any media outlet affiliating someone center-right like the Proudboys (who kicked the KKK and other legitimately hateful groups out of their rally) with the actual far-right? How about Maxime Waters encouraging her fans to harass Republicans? How about people from Right Wing Watch and other groups doxxing members of the right and posting their relative's home adress and contact info online? Don't give me that feeble bullshit. When have people ever been shot for something Info Wars said?Alex Jones has issued multiple apologies and stated many times that he was wrong about Sandy Hook and Pizzagate.

You are a fucking moron if you believe Alex was deplatformed due to breaking the rules and not due to corporate lobbying and political pressure. And then you outright ignore every other example I gave which has never resulted in any of the outcomes you mentioned. You're a fucking clown and a legitimate moron. Get the fuck off this board and go back to being laughed at on /pol/.

>>11646334
>reddit

>>11646334
Don't you just do the same blanket blaming on capitalism though?

>>11646334
Upvoted, comrade!

>>11644842
heh, funny story kid