/lit/ - Literature

Bump

I'm looking for metaphysical esoterism
I want to read something that will spin me an interesting and insane tale about what everything is

The Alchemical Wedding is a good if you want to get a feel for hermeticism. It won't tell you any basics or interpretation though

>>11573211
This along the lines of the Yates pictured. Two solid books.

1/2

2/2

Retry

>>11573211
Man. Energy. Society. by Earl Cook.

>>11573590
Joscelyn Godwin has a good new translation out too. Highly recommend.

>>11573544
>spin me an interesting and insane tale
You want the Typhonian Trilogies by Kenneth Grant then.

>>11573211
If you haven't read Yates other stuff yet go for The Rosicrucian Enlightenment and The Occult Philosophy of the Elizabethian Age.

>>11573606
>DP
I literally kant even

I found this library in an >>>/x/ thread. I haven't looked through it much but there's probably a lot of interesting stuff.

https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

>>11573780
Good library altho everyone on /x/ is a larpy cultist. Hard to get into this stuff without becoming one tho.

>>11573856
>everyone on /x/ is a larpy cultist.
I gathered that while lurking the thread.

>>11573759
Wtf is pandeism? I am curious and would rather hear an explanation than merely google.

>>11573894
what the guy in OP believed in
god is everywhere/everything
the difference between it and "Pantheism" is sort-of the same as theism and deism. Pandeism is "neutral".

>>11573928
Oh. Less exciting than I imagined...

>>11573933
I'm lusting after the Thomas Taylor Collection by Prometheus Trust

>>11573211
>>11573606
These books... Terence McKenna fan detected.

>>11575549
Interesting. But my way to Yates was via E. H. Gombrich and Aby Warburg, --Warburg Institute scholars in general (which is what OP should investigate).

>>11575599
Warburg is bullshit. They fucking care about that pseud crowley.

>>11575681
I hope you'll forgive my ignorance, but what makes Crowley a pseud?

>>11575689
Pseudo-traditionalist orientalist perennialist syncretic esoteric occult new thought new age theosophical degenerate drug addicted spooky mishmash garbledygook.

Golden Dawn was a con. Thelema is a con. Crowley was a con artist. Ever read Sex and Rockets or watch Strange Angel? Crowley is the seed of every future con artist from Hubbard to Manson.

>>11573678
What are the ant quality books on the bottom two rows?

>>11573748
There's nothing better than Kenneth Grant when it comes to interesting and insane and absolutely correct.

>>11575681
Bah. Focus on a dot, anon. Warburg's what's best about the U. of London.

>>11576044
Modern Occult Rhetoric by Joshua Gunn
Alchemical Traditions and Occult Traditions by Aaron Cheak

>>11576723
thanks for reminding me of this book, anon

>>11577378
Recommended books? All I know is they have the largest Crowley collection which I find kinda interesting but not my personal path.

>>11576723
forgot all about this, thanks

>>11575599
where to start with Gombrich and/or Warburg?

>>11579386
With Gombrich, Art and Illusion- it's a wonderful book; also read his biography of Warburg 'to start' with Warburg.
Adam Gopnik wrote a piece in New Yorker a few years ago titled The Weirdest Library in the World about the Institute, which is as good a brief introduction as I can think of. Affiliated scholars writing now include Anthony Grafton (rec Cardano's Cosmos) and Charles Nicholl (rec The Chemical Theatre, pictured above- as is D.P. Walker's book- Walker was another affiliated scholar). Panofsky, Cassirer, Yates, Wittgower, Edgar Wind, etc. were all affiliated.

>>11578873
Dude. Just saw this. Had I seen it would've double-responded. Post above's for (you) as well.

Before you dig into any of this, read Alan Moore's essay on the occult called Fossil Angels. It's only like 20 pages and will illuminate you on the current state of occultism

>>11580436
https://fratersef.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/fossil-angels.pdf

>>11580479

thank you

https://www.google.com/amp/s/iflcm.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/go-underground-and-be-a-chaos-magician/amp/

http://www.censorthis.com/ouran/ghosthome.html

http://freezoneearth.org/littlepurplenotebook/index.html

https://zalbarath666.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/peter-j-carroll-liber-null-psychonaut.pdf

>>11579945
Bunch of literal who's except Cassirer.

>>11580507
And Yates, of course. One of whose many books OP chose as the image to initiate this thread. It's a who subject, boss. If youre not aware of it then it's of course as (you) say.

>>11580839

>>11580595

>>11580845

>>11580568
Not impressed by Yates if that is the best the institute has to offer. Then again it can't worse than Eranos and Esalen and all the crappy traditionalist organizations.

>>11580840
I've heard of this but haven't yet taken the leap to get it and read it. Is it easy to digest without much experience/context?

Read literally anything thats over two thousand years old. You have Aristotle, daodejing, Patañjali, The Bhagavad Gita. Even the stinking bible gets good once you go full schizo.

>>11581106
Yeah. It's just essays. More along the inspirational line than the theoretical or practical.

>>11581147
Good point. But start with the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians.

>>11573590
>>11573740
>>11573211
start with this

Good luck.

>>11580868
Have you read pictured? It's actually a very good book. The best of that Trilogy (which begins with Art of Memory). It's more a scholarly house, deals with how all aspects of the late medieval/early modern came together, with an emphasis on art. So not for everybody desu.

>>11581494
No, you start with the guide for the perplexed on western esotericism

>>11580595
Tell me more about this.

>>11581908
you should focus on comprehending exoteric meaning for the moment

>>11582008
Of the three main philosophical schools of esotericism (Guenon, Strauss, and Hanegraaff), Guenon is the least interesting. Strauss explains the reasoning behind exotericism better and Hanegraaff has a more inclusive view of esoteric practice.

Is John Dee worth reading?

>>11583124
Guenon has nothing to do with western esoterism you mong, his entire shtick is explaining eastern doctrines in a way that make them accessible to westerners

>>11583209
It’s a trivial point, he was a Westerner addressing his works to the West

>>11581147
Agreed. The good stuff are ancient texts, and the exegesis and hermeneutics gets worse as time goes on. The Renaissance is a good stopping point.

>>11583232
That doesn't change the fact that the ideas he writes about in his books are usually unrelated to western esoterism and that most of the eastern doctrines themselves aside from a few exceptions are not even esoteric but on the contrary taught openly. The only way he could be considered a part of western esoterism is if you broaden the definition so much that it includes all western teachers and schools of anything having to do with mysticism/metaphysics/religious philosophy etc at which point the label becomes meaningless.

>>11583489
Fair point. I think they all overlap so much it’s sometimes helpful to take them as a group.

>>11583209
Guenon's whole schtick is using Advaita (Neo-)Vedanta as a measuring stick for the so-called "esoteric" component of religion, which is to say the practice of leading one to a religious state, as compared to the way his contemporaries often focused on exoteric trappings and, in his view, trivial differences of doctrine.


It's a good schtick for a perennialist and he's definitely more faithful to his sources than theosophists and occultists like Blavatsky and Crowley but I still think it's a relatively boring view of the proverbial "esoteric" even though I came upon it before Strauss and Hanegraaff. I feel like they have more interesting and provocative arguments regarding how the esoteric and exoteric came to be divorced in the West and how it survives. Guenon, in some ways, just tells you what you want to hear.

>>11581885
Yeah. It's an interesting book. And important too. I just feel like I've progressed beyond it.

>>11583248
Both ancient and modern are necessary for progress.

>>11580479
>A wistful recreation of long-gone erotic moments by the impotent.
Heh.

>>11583719

>Guenon's whole schtick is using Advaita (Neo-)Vedanta

That's wrong actually. Neo-Vedanta is a very specific phenomenon that was started by a group of westernized and semi-westernized Indian elites who promoted a distorted version of Advaita that was influenced by Protestant ethics/theology, post-colonial discourse and the English education of its founders, turing it into an anti-traditional parody of Advaita that they then proselyetized. The main culprit is Vivekananda who in his books shows that he barely understands Vedanta (he openly admits to not understanding key concepts in some of them), he also was responsible for trying to portray Ramakrishna in a way to the world that downplayed the non-Vedanta aspects of his life and thoughts. Radnakrishnan and Aurobindo and sometimes considered minor players in it too. Guenon explicitly calls out Neo-Vedanta in his books and details the ways in which they distort the traditional teachings, he also read and reviewed more than a dozen books by these people and gave examples in the reviews of how they were wrong. Guenon is not at all Neo-Vedanta.

>as a measuring stick for the so-called "esoteric" component of religion, which is to say the practice of leading one to a religious state

That's not what esoteric means, the word esoteric literally means 'something which is kept secret/guarded and only revealed to the initiated/approved'. If something is openly taught it is by definition no longer esoeric. The idea of leading someone to a 'religious state' is also the wrong terminology because of how broad it is, it could also be used to describe praying etc, a more appropiate term would be spiritual or metaphysical realization. It is true that he understood non-dualism to be the truth the various traditions lead to although if you read his works he lays out a pretty good case for it. He doesn't say that Advaita is the ultimate truth and that everything leads to it but that there is rather just an all-encompassing divine/metaphysical reality transcending all labels and definitions (even non-dualism). When you read Daoist, Sufi and certain Mahayana (as well as Neoplatonist) texts they point to a similar idea even if they don't say so as explicitly as some Advaita texts.

>>11583952
Esotericism literally just means reserved for the inner circle. Mysticism is closer to the related definition you give of both keeping silent and initiating. That said, there is much overlap between the two. But if you're going to be a pedant do it right.

Guenon is neo-Vedanta insofar as he lived during the age of neo-Vedanta. He possessed no time travel machine. He is speculating and altering the tradition as much as the other thinkers you mentioned.

I do not use the term metaphysical realization cause it is loaded. A religious experience usually involves some degree of metaphysical vision whether you question as I do whether this is a realization of true reality or not.

>>11583952
>a distorted version of Advaita that was influenced by Protestant ethics/theology, post-colonial discourse and the English education of its founders
Literally describes Guenon to a t btw

>>11584139
>Esotericism literally just means reserved for the inner circle.

That's exactly what I said. If you look in various dictionaries they will all give a few definitions that fit exactly what you and I wrote or somewhere between the two, the problem was that in your post that I originally replied to you defined 'esoteric' as the practice of leading one to a religious state which is plainly incorrect.

>Guenon is neo-Vedanta insofar as he lived during the age of neo-Vedanta.

That's retarded, just because he lived at the same time does not mean he was part of it, that makes no sense at all. He explicitly criticizes it in detail and was careful to base all of his writings on traditional and orthodox sources. There is no reason at all why he should be considered part of it, of all the criticisms to make of Guenon that's the stupidest.

>>11584194
Not at all, he sources almost all of his ideas about Hinduism from Shankara's writings while occasionally drawing parallels from other eastern texts, if you think he does any of those things than give specific examples from his books

>>11583952
>The idea of leading someone to a 'religious state' is also the wrong terminology because of how broad it is, it could also be used to describe praying etc
I think that is precisely why it is more appropriate. Prayer is a part of mystical practice in every religion from Christianity and Judaism and Islam to Hinduism and Buddhism and even Daoism. The spiritual elitism schtick is lame. Bet you consider yourself an expert on jnana yoga? And you totally ignore bhakti and karma...

>>11584208
Are you denying that he grew up in a western country, with a western language, and received a western education? Do you deny that he intentionally or unintentionally founded a new school of thought in the West known as Traditionalist?

>>11584196
Crisis of the Modern World could only be written by a modern European no matter what he says about Shankara. Every interpretation is a reinterpretation... there is no escape to the hermeneutic circle...

>>11584234
>Are you denying that he grew up in a western country, with a western language, and received a western education?

No, of course not. It's just that protestant or catholic theology had little to do with his thought. He learned Sanskrit, Hebrew, Arabic, and Classical Chinese and source all of his ideas from reading primary texts themselves and from conversing with easterners. He was initiated into Sufism and almost certainly Advaita as well. He goes to extreme and almost pedantic lengths in his books (especially intro to hindu doctrines) to point out the ways in which a western education and mindset can be a hindrance to understanding eastern doctrines.

>Do you deny that he intentionally or unintentionally founded a new school of thought in the West known as Traditionalist?

He disavows that label itself in his books which you would know if you read them. When asked to describe himself and what he did all he claimed was that he had did his best to present and explain eastern doctrines to westerners as best he could.

>>11584214
> think that is precisely why it is more appropriate. Prayer is a part of mystical practice in every religion from Christianity and Judaism and Islam to Hinduism and Buddhism and even Daoism.

Yes, I'm aware but if you remember the context I was writing that in it was in response to you saying he used Vedanta as a measuring stick for leading one to a religious state and I was clarifying that this in inaccurate because he talks about Vedanta and similar concepts mostly as they pertain to 'realization' and not prayer which is a legitimate but separate sphere of spirituality.

>Bet you consider yourself an expert on jnana yoga? And you totally ignore bhakti and karma...

Not at all, everything has its own proper place in the order and hierarchy of things. If you read Vedanta texts they go into great detail about the relation between jnana, bhakti and karma yoga, about when, how and why they should each be practiced and by whom. Shankara accepted all these as legitimate and also composed devotional poetry.

>>11584273
>Crisis of the Modern World could only be written by a modern European

Obviously, its specifically about what's wrong with the modern west which would be difficult to accurately capture in writing for anyone who hadn't spent decades living in and analyzing it, e.g. a westerner. Just because he wrote a book on what's wrong with the west from the perspective of having lived there has nothing to do with neo-vedanta.

>>11579945
Thanks

>>11583756
>esoteric knowledge becomes more mystified each passing day as civilization submits to materialism
>progress

>>11573211
Esoterism is a vast field so I will go exclusively with alchemical texts.
Christian Rosencreutz, Paracelsus and Hermes Trismegistus are the classic works. If you want to dig deeper go for Fulcanelli and Marie-Louise von Franz. The end game is C.G. Jung's Liber Novus.

>>11585346
>wahhh i am an incel and wish i lived in a feudal society where i would be uneducated and believe superstitious nonsense and be poor as shit but at least i would have a better chance of having sex

>>11585687

>>11586010
https://youtu.be/EQTYEGDIRks

>>11586080
Yeah, I'm not going to listen to an hour and a half of what may be flagellation. Just give me the tl;dr.

>>11573211

>>11586159
https://www.parrhesiajournal.org/parrhesia09/parrhesia09_laruelle.pdf

>>11586560
if other people here read parrhesia than i am a bit more reconciled to being here

>>11583209
>>11583719
>>11583124

Guénon does have books that are essential to the understanding of western hermetic tradition, especially the newer ones.

>Theosophy, the History of a Pseudo-Religion by René Guénon

Guénon here talks about the historical origins of Theosophy, the so-called "Mahatmas" of Blavatsky and how they tie to The Golden Dawn order where bigger names like Crowley had their beginning.

>The Spiritist Fallacy by René Guénon
Also essential reading when it comes to Theosophical society and how the "esoteric" movement in the west had beginning in "spiritist seances"

>Studies in Freemasonry and the Compagnonnage by René Guénon

Also recommended for those interested in masonry which offers a backbone for most western esoteric orders. All in all Guénon drops interesting notes here and there in books that tie closely to esoteric studies.

>>11576036
>Golden Dawn was a con

Even Guénon did not agree it was a mere con or pseudo-initiative organization.

It ties to the origin of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher_Manuscripts

Now these were attributed to one "Anna Sprengler"

Sprengel was supposedly part of the old German "Golden Rose-Cross" founded in 1714 by the Saxon Priest Samuel Richter (pseudonym Sincerus Renatus) and he held the title "Imperator" which the Golden Dawn later adopted. This title was inheritance of earlier Rosicrucian organizations.

This ´Golden Rose-Cross´ stopped existing somewhere in the 1700s. It was replcated in 1780 by the "Initiate Brothers of Asia" in Vienna and their superiors were called "Fathers and Brothers of the Seven Unknown Churches of Asia"

These should not be confused with some actual adepts living in Asia, but it is an direct reference to the Christian Seven Churches found in book of Revelation.

It ties to Golden Dawn, in a sense, that these organizations, just like Golden Dawn, made their members take an oath of allegiance to the "Imperator" (Term only found in Rosicrucian and Golden Dawn, considering the Cipher MSS was also attributed to a contact of Golden Rose-Cross)

The founder of the Golden Rose-Cross (Sincerus Renatus) that the "Masters" of the Rose-Cross left for "India" and none of them were left in Europe. 1714 statutes of the Golden Rose-Cross one can read "every Brother shall hange his first name and surname after he has been accepted, and shall do the same each time he changes countries"

Henri Nehaus also states that this departure of the "Masters" took place after the declaration of the Thirty Years War in Europe. Rose-Cross was also rumored to have links with Eastern, Islamic organizations.

Cont.

>>11587149
cont.

The founder of the Golden Rose-Cross (Sincerus Renatus) that the "Masters" of the Rose-Cross left for "India" and none of them were left in Europe. 1714 statutes of the Golden Rose-Cross one can read "every Brother shall hange his first name and surname after he has been accepted, and shall do the same each time he changes countries"

Henri Nehaus also states that this departure of the "Masters" took place after the declaration of the Thirty Years War in Europe. Rose-Cross was also rumored to have links with Eastern, Islamic organizations.

In René Guénon´s book "History of Pseudo-Religion" there is aaccount of traveler Paul Lucas, who traveled through Greece and Asia Minor durin the reign of Louis XIV, recalls meeting four dervishes in Brousse, one of them seemed to speak all the languages of the world ( a supposed faculty attributed to the Brothers of the Rose-Cross) and this man claimed to belong to a group of Seven people who meet every twenty years.

>Of course, no more than one seventh of the wisdom is ever confided to one of the Seven, and the Seven meet in council but once in every thirty-three years.
-Aleister Crowley, Liber LI

The more strange thing is that "Anna Sprengel" who was the supposed force behind Secret Chief, may or may not have been a woman - at all.

https://heterodoxology.com/2011/10/22/who-was-fraulein-sprengel-new-evidence-on-the-origin-of-the-golden-dawn-or-vale-soror-ave-frater/

Just bought this, what am I in for?

>>11586010
I like to call this picture "The Wicker Wagie"

>>11588120
It’s honestly a bit difficult as a primary text just by itself in some respects. There’s a lot which is straightforward, but there’s obscure allusions and imagery at parts. Some secondary readings on it would help.

>>11588494
I'll just read and interpret it on my own first but what are some secondary texts you would recommend? Right now I have Gurdjieff, Evola, Yates and Eliade on my reading list

>>11588526
I didn’t read any, I got an annotated edition.

Strange how interested /lit/ is becoming in occultism and mysticism. I’ve been interested in it for a while now and it’s only relatively recently all these esotericism and Eastern mysticism threads have been blowing up. That aside, interesting list. I’ve read Gurdjieff and Yates and am also planning to read Eliade.

>>11588610
>an annotated edition
Which one is that?

>>11588526
>I already have Gurdjieff, Evola, Yates and Eliade on my reading list
Eww...

That's actually a decent if dated edition of the Hermetic Corpus tho. Kinda expensive tho. Make sure you get all four volumes. Longer than other editions because it has the original texts in case you speak ancient languages.

As far as secondary /lit/, Thrice-Greatest Hermes by GRS Mead is pretty good albeit also dated and non-academic.

On the more modern scholarly side, The Egyptian Hermes and The Eternal Hermes are good secondary sources as well.

>>11588633
Did a bit of studying for a fellow mystic since I checked it out from a library and returned it a while ago; it’s an edition with notes and introduction by Brian P. Copenhaver.

>>11587149
>Even Guénon did not agree it was a mere con or pseudo-initiative organization.
Guenon is not the final arbiter of these things.
>>11587152
>one of them seemed to speak all the languages of the world ( a supposed faculty attributed to the Brothers of the Rose-Cross) and this man claimed to belong to a group of Seven people who meet every twenty years.
Marco Polo claimed to have seen unicorns. So what?

>>11588659
Good recc. Copenhaver is probably the most up to date English translation with commentary currently available.

>>11588650
>Eww...
What's wrong with them? Thanks for the recs

>>11588683
Sorry. Just being pretentious.

Never read Gurdjeff. He seems alright tho. Yates is good for sure. I merely find Evola and Eliade, along with Guenon, distasteful for their overt reactionary political affiliations. That said, both (and Guenon too) are important figures and worth reading regardless.

>>11588707
Alright then.

>>11588743

>>11588745

>>11588769

>>11588776

>>11588812

>>11588838
>true spelled TRVE

see that's the thing I just want to continue my studying of the various underground knowledges/religions of humanity - i don't know what exactly i'm looking for but i feel like it attracts pretentious-as-fuck people. i want to know the Newtons and Avincennas and Brunos and Paracelsus of this world.

nice-looking books though

>>11588991
It's hard not to be a little pretentious when you know things most others don't.

>>11588838
Thanks anon. Have you read all these? What are those techniques books like

>>11588838

:/

>>11589202
Go to scarletimprint and buy the bibliotheque rogue versions. Trade paperback, not fancy, but much cheaper. You also receive a pdf if you purchase the books from them so you can start reading before they arrive. Scarlet Imprint is, however, known for limited edition high quality prints which go up in value as well so they're a good investment if you can get them new from the publisher but I wouldn't buy the hardbacks secondhand.
>>11589160
I have read them. The Stephen Skinner and Jake Stratton-Kent books all attempt to go into the roots of the Goetic/Solomonic Tradition in Ancient Greece. It is a curious time for philosophy with a hodgepodge of Gnosticism, Hermeticism, and Neoplatonism. Skinner links it more to theurgy and high magic and focuses on links to the Greek Magical Papyri. Stratton-Kent links it more to indigineous necromancy and shamanism and has an interesting take on the argonauts.

>>11589254
Meant to reply to: >>11589166

Reviews because I am lazy and people have already said it better:

https://godsandradicals.org/2015/08/31/the-true-western-occult-tradition-a-review-of-jake-stratton-kents-encyclopedia-goetica/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/danharms.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/review-techniques-of-graeco-egyptian-magic/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/danharms.wordpress.com/2015/07/13/review-techniques-of-solomonic-magic/amp/

If you like podcasts, then I can't recommend Practical Neoplatonism, Glitch Bottle, and Rune Soup highly enough.

>>11589254
thanks - are they worth reading? what did they contribute to your studies? i ask because that's like 100£ + to drop on books.

>>11589271
oh just saw this, thanks - these answer my questions

>>11589325
I think most of the books or at least the Jake Stratton-Kent can be found here:,>>11573780 .

>>11589325
They're pretty advanced desu. I found them worth reading but I have been studying these subjects for over a decade. For example, I was already acquainted with the PGM and grimoire tradition before reading the Skinner and if you want to work with the Skinner then you would need copies of such works. JSK is probably more approachable for beginners but you might not realize how avant-garde he is unless you have approached earlier grimoire translations. In any case, I do not practice solomonic or pgm techniques, however, and ended up gifting my copies of the books to a friend who is an itinerant goetic sorcerer and gave me several other occult books and a work of art as thanks. So I would probably start with other cheaper more general books before these. Unfortunately lots of occult books are expensive.

>>11589358
Check under grimoires

>>11589429
thank you - just curious, since you have been studying these subjects in depth for so long, what books/materials in general have stood out to you? there seems to be a lot of superfluous things once you leave the primary texts or Renaissance era, at least, from what i've read/seen.

>>11573710
underrated

>>11589438
found it, thanks

I would suggest all these books first:
>>11588743
>>11588745
>>11588769
>>11588776
>>11588782
And then if you feel like wasting money get this or better yet pirate it:
>>11588800
Then since you're probably getting bored of complex philosophy so read these:
>>11580839
>>11580840
The read this so you don't start hating Christianity:
>>11576723
And check out this as well:
>>11580845
And then you'll probably want this and these:
>>11573211
>>11573753
At which point you're pretty much prepared for these: (way of hermes should be replaced by Copenhaver)
>>11573710
Then you'll be prepared to read fascists without fear like so:
>>11580850
And then you might as well read Spare and Crowley and Regardie and Waite and Levi and Agrippa and Carroll and Grant and Guenon and the grimoires and whatever else. At least you'll have a super solod understanding of the history of magic.

>>11589485
Does that answer your question?

I suppose I am biasd toward over-intellectualization. I find religion fascinating but am not a member of an exoteric or esoteric religion. Maybe exoterically Catholic by birth, but non-practicing, and have no plans to take the Guenon leap to esoteric Sufi practice yet.

I consider myself most influenced Buddhusm and Hinduism and Daoism insofar as practice goes but influenced by Platonism, Hermeticism, and Gnosticism insofar as beliefs are concerned.

I am a fan of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and the Diamond Sutra. I would suggest multiple translations.Stephen Mitchell also does a decent Dao de Jing. He also has a good Parmenides and Empedocles. Ames and Hall have a really good English Dao De Jing commentary and translation too -- the "philosophical" one. Way of Hermes is a cheap functional hermetica translation.


It's hard to recommend without knowing where you're at, however...

>>11573678
Forgot to quote this chart. Definitey essential. The big ol expensive hanegraaf dictionary can be found in the mega library along with western esotericism: a guide for the perplexed under beginners.

Link -- >>11573780

>>11589623
Or I guess you might have to buy a guide for the perplexed. Idk. Kant find it no more.

>>11589589
have you read any Algis Uz. by chance?

>>11589660
I posted and read almost all those books. Algis is up there, he's great.

>>11576723
been reading Alan Moore's Promethea.
Pretty comprehensive rundown of Tarot, Kabbalah, Crowley, etc.
anyone read it?

>>11589623
>western esotericism: a guide for the perplexed
thanks - I found it on libgen

and thanks for the reply. i'm vaguely just dabbling around - feel like I'm missing something, so I have read some Paracelsus, some of Ibn Arabi, and the Rosicrucians - a bit about chaos magic and islamic magic also.

I briefly knew a self-proclaimed theosophist and he completely disappeared after telling me some people were on to him, and he was frightened for his life, so I'm trying to find out why. or what he knew. something like that.

>>11589679
When I was a kid. I arguably 'started' with those chart tutorials that conclude it. Was my fave comic book for a long time.

>>11589702
Probably schizophrenia, no offense. He oughta read Foucault's Pendulum to stay sane. Or maybe that would have made things worse.
>>11589679
>>11589708
I arguably started with the endnotes to Illuminatus! Trilogy. Never read Promethea. Not a comic man. But I've read a bit of Invisibles and Transmetropolitan which was fun.

>>11589702
Read the guide for the perplexed then peruse the dictionary (in the beginner folder). Should give you a lot of interesting leads.

Cultist Simulator is a great videogame by the way...

how do i become a cool larper like you guys..? plz don't hex

>>11589788
The esoteric tradition is just a branch of philosophy that was cut off in the west due to religious concerns. Magic is not about larping. It is a way of actively participating in the cosmos with an awareness of our history.

>>11589825
when a shitpost comes to me I type it out, it's just my magic dude don't cramp my style
you can see by the dubs that Kek approves of it

>>11589845
https://youtu.be/gzxQgRbTesA

>>11589857
is this video a form of tactical psychic meme curse warfare?
I actually like magic tho so plz don't hex me

also don't hex just because you're offended that I think magick is just spells and hexing

>>11589875
https://youtu.be/B9dSYgd5Elk

>>11589908
I'm not watching these so your spells won't work

>>11589875
https://youtu.be/7QyoRzZrF00

>>11589988
You think that's words you're reading?

>>11589679
Pic related is widely considered one of the best tarot books around. Goes through four different decks including Crowey's so you can see the differences.

>>11589679
I recently read >>11576723 and liked it a lot even though it was not what I expected. Now I am reading pic related cause I like the crazy motherfucker and his films blew my mind when I was younger and it's about the same old-school marseille deck which I was inspired to add to my collection.

>>11589990
So silly. My dad frequently played the Fly like an Eagle lp on trips via automobile. Serenade is the cut I remember liking.. but I won't presume to force it on (you)

Not even a Crowley fan but this book is amazing...

>>11591647
Why

>>11591893
It's his magnum opus.

>>11592233
Why? What's it about?

>>11592782
I mean there's a little index right there on the cover.. It's about thelema

>>11592790
It's always about thelema. I don't even remember what it's like to read something that does not partake in the thelemic point of view.

Any good books on shamanism?

>>11594082
Papa JBP recommended this

>>11594082
have you read carlos casteneda?

I just read The Kybalion, and a few months ago I read Prometheus Rising. Interesting stuff as far as I can tell, but srsly I'm not buying into it at all. Too delusional to me. So, any good books on these esoteric/hermetic topics that can persuade me to actually believe?

bump

>>11595393
You should've started with the Corpus Hermeticum instead of that trash.

>>11595393
you started with new age garbage, listen to this anon >>11595477

>>11595477
>>11595493
I see, thanks. Any further recommendations?

>>11595516
Start with the Greeks, and I mean that sincerely. Begin with Hesiod, Heraclitus, Parmenides, and Pythagoras. Then, all of Plato's dialogues and Aristotle's Metaphysics. After that, you are ready to tackle the Neoplatonists Plotinus, Porphyry, and Proclus, and Augustine.

>>11595565
Forgot to put in Iamblichus who is also a Neoplatonist, and the Chaldean Oracles fragments.

>>11595601
You forgot a lot of people tbqhwyf

>>11595601
As well as Uzdavanys' (sic) work on Orphism

>>11595606
I know. There are a hell of a lot of contributions to Western Esotericism, and I'm still talking about everything up to the end of Late Antiquity.

>>11595393
t. didn't do the exercises

>>11595688
I didn't do the exercises because it didn't make any sense. PR is a funny and thought-provoking book, but the "exercises" seemed nonsensical to me. I want to believe, but I need some demonstration based onlogical proof or rational approach.

>>11595936
The theories explained in PR can't be explained logically and rationally, and have to be experienced to be understood. That's the point of the exercises.

>>11595936
what could be a more rational approach than doing the got dang exercises?

>>11595961
You have experienced it, haven't you?
Tell me about it.

Is modern occultism all about building parallels between systems of symbols? E.g. tree of life and tarots, tree of life and chakras, tree of life and eight circuits of consciousness...

>>11596258
You're thinking of perennialism.

>>11595999
lmao I know right, does the other anon need a guy in a labcoat to shake his dick too?

>>11596268
What's that

>>11596258
How did the gluten-free symbol end up into that?

>>11596284
the notion that there is a universal truth across all religious traditions

>>11596258
here's a helpful website that isn't (as?) bullshit like the others

http://www.occult-mysteries.org/

>THE Occult is not what most people think it is. Not one person in ten million or one 'occultist' in a thousand has the slightest idea of what the Occult really is. You may think this is an exaggeration; we assure you it is not. Moreover, if you read even a fraction of the articles we have published you will agree with our statement. The first misconception we aim to correct is that the Occult is 'evil'. It is not, neither is it 'anti-religion'. Nor has it anything to do with black magic or witchcraft. Nor do we promote such subjects in any of our articles. What we do promote are the teachings of the Wise philosophers and spiritual Masters of the past and present, none of which can conflict in any way with the highest ideals of any religion. More than one religious visitor to this website has been shocked to find articles about God and the hidden wisdom in the Bible here. This is not surprising considering that the word 'occult' is nowadays mostly associated with all that is evil. But all the word really means is 'hidden'. It is in this correct sense that the word is used by doctors to describe blood that is not visibly apparent. The same definition applies to the occult mysteries; that is knowledge and truth which is not visibly apparent. This is the ONLY sense in which we use the word.


so less like conjuring demons and more realizing yourself as a person and a "truth seeker"

>>11596284
Unity of religions in a sense they are all valid one way or the other. Some take a more conservative approach by only acknowledging where they all agree and gave similarities, while others take it to full syncretism.

>>11596023
Basically you change your brain’s point of view drastically, realize how plastic and subjective your worldview is, and that it’s possible to look at yourself somewhat more “objectively” and freely. INstead of being trapped in mechanical thought-loops. This breaking free includes access to forms of emotion, perception, and thought not usually experienced and sometimes even quite exhilarating. I have done far from all the exercises, though, and am not particularly planning to soon, so take my words with a grain of salt. I was just a RAW-junkie for a bit and am a mysticism junkie in general.

>>11595936
This view is misguided because it’s experiential knowledge you need in these respects, not rational proof. It’s meant to engage body, emotions, and mind as a whole (and perhaps even faculties — such as intuition — beyond these or mixing emotions and thoughts).

>>11596477
>>11596023
Oh yeah sorry — I’m not that poster you responded to

What if I liked Foucalt's Pendulum/ Baudolino/ The Manuscript Found in Saragossa?

>>11596700
That's good. It'll keep you from going schizo when you go deep into occultism.

>>11573211
>>>/x/omg
Download the library from there

>>11595477
the ch contains poimandres and the key, right? Ive read those and also asclepius (though my copy says its a later work, called logos teleios).

Thank you, boys. Great thread.
I'll see if I can get into this stuff and check back here at a later date

[everything found on libgen or b-ok]

Thank you, boys, excellent thread.
I'll see if I can get into this stuff and check back here at a later date.
[everything found on libgen or b-ok]

I can't get past step one in chapter one of the psychonauts' manga guide! How the hell do I """calm down""" ? Help a fellow magician. What do?

>>11581726
What is this? When I read I always feel like a donkey studying etiquette.

>>11598575
I haven't read the book but what's the issue with calming down? Do you mean that you can't silence your mind?

>>11598859
Yea. Meditation is hard! And all other excercise require that you are quite at ease with meditation and using the third eye.

>>11598885
Try this: write a big symbol that represents calm to you on a piece of paper and hover your hand over it while you're trying to silence your mind.
If you need to do an exercise while laying down, write it on a solid object that fits inside a hand and keep it.

https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

You're welcome.

>>11585687
Anon this is the dumbest thing i have ever read and that is quite an accomplishment.

>>11598903
So basically sigil magic

anything on wicca or sex magic?

>>11573856
If building trust with cult leaders enough to snag the Yorke Microfilms is "larp" you can call me a generation 8 Lasombra.

>>11573211
6 and 7th books of Moses

>>11599430
>If building trust with cult leaders enough to snag the Yorke Microfilms is "larp"

>>11576036
only someone who is a total retard would string together words in such a meaningless way. theres very little in crowley that can be considered traditionalist, perennialist, new thought, new age or theosophical, which makes me believe that you dont even know what those terms mean.
>Ever read Sex and Rockets or watch Strange Angel?
im sorry that i dont get my crowley lore from a pop book and pop tv show about jack parsons. god, youre dumb.

>>11599707
ILL only accounts for the last reel which which I wanted before the cleanup made it to the final section.

>>11599909
Which is super clear once you see the quality comparisons between the early reels with contrast correction and zooms then the final section with Bagh I Muattar, etc., with is grainy as fuck and uncleaned.

>>11587149
>Now these were attributed to one "Anna Sprengler"
It was admitted in court under oath that anna sprengler was a fabrication, IIRC

>>11599936
That may be the case in terms of the name of the person but there was an article in the JWM that did a linguistic analysis of the letters and determined that whoever it was actually was a native German speaker.

>>11599999
Checked. So do you think the story about the Fraulein and the manuscripts is legit?

>>11598903
"sigil magic" is just focused attention and child's play

the occult is about pursuing truth and developing the higher self

>>11600013
I think that like most other things, "legit" is a simplification. I think they were authored by a native German speaker. Whether that speaker had contact with the OGRC or was named Spengler is historically up for debate (frankly I wouldn't trust Mather's statements in court, dude was desperate, was caught lying at various points, and lost the case) and almost immaterial considering that the GD was in the end a Kabbalistic and co-Masonic advancement of SRIA.

>>11600018
If "sigil magick" was good enough for Agrippa, from whom Spare learned the method, it's good enough for me.

>>11600084
>I think that like most other things, "legit" is a simplification. I think they were authored by a native German speaker. Whether that speaker had contact with the OGRC or was named Spengler is historically up for debate (frankly I wouldn't trust Mather's statements in court, dude was desperate, was caught lying at various points, and lost the case) and almost immaterial considering that the GD was in the end a Kabbalistic and co-Masonic advancement of SRIA.
So I should join the SRIA first is what you're saying?

>>11600084
Of course its not the truly learned occult figures of the histories that I am talking about as much as these constant stream of pop magic books that harp on cool sigil drawing and advertising turning kids to sorcerers within the week- I mean, wouldn't you agree Agrippa would kind of be revolted at the state of "sigil magic" at the moment?

Whatever works for everyone else here...works in its own way, but so much since Crowley's drug-induced quackery is just performance, melodrama, and attention-whoring.
The "real meaning" of the Occult gets lost under all of this and what is left becomes a distraction at best, and a danger at worst.

>>11600124
>Crowley's drug-induced quackery is just performance, melodrama, and attention-whoring
Spoken like a true pseud.

>>11600118
If that's what you're interested in, go for it.

>>11600139
That's why I don't really post here.

>>11600124
>Whatever works for everyone else here...works in its own way, but so much since Crowley's drug-induced quackery is just performance, melodrama, and attention-whoring.
is this supposed to be a joke? he devised plenty of rituals, ceremonies, and practices, and basically said "ok so here's what's going to happen if you do these correctly". then a bunch of people did those practices, got those results and more, which continues down to the present day. anyone can pick up his practices and try them out, though having the proper context and understanding helps. to say it's just performance and melodrama shows how ignorant you are. you sure have a lot of strong opinions about a topic about which you know next to nothing.

>>11598885
You can try a guided meditation, it's actually helpful when you are new to it.

The way that makes sense to me is to deliberately direct your attention at what you're thinking about. Don't just think, observe. You are looking at what you think. You don't need to act on your thoughts, just keep directing your attention.

>>11600151
>very few nuggets of Truth in his [Crowley's] many books can easily be found more clearly and simply expressed elsewhere, and these are vastly outweighed by the mountain of misinformation Crowley wrote, much of which is highly dangerous. Moreover, if we study Crowley's life we find that his influence was mostly destructive and evil. During his short career he abandoned his wives, children, wrecked the lives, and in some cases sanity, of his disciples and exploited his friends and enemies alike for his own personal gain and self aggrandisement. Crowley is perhaps the best or worst example—depending on one's point of view—of where the selfish pursuit of fame, money, material power and sex ultimately leads.

>Whilst he had plenty of sex during his lifetime and became more famous after death than he ever was in life, Crowley ended his days as a broken-down drug-addict in a seedy boarding house, alone and penniless. The fact that so many people interested in the occult follow his so-called 'teachings' and revere him as the greatest of 'magicians' only goes to show the fatal fascination black magic holds for all too many seekers. This is not to say that Crowley started out as an evil man though he undoubtedly became so in the end. But you won't find the reasons for this change in character in any of his books or the biographies about him. Crowley was undoubtedly a gifted writer and excellent scholar with a wide knowledge of sorcery and black magic. But he knew nothing whatsoever about white magic, the true occult constitution of man, the real nature of the Astral World, or the occult laws that govern the Universe. His literary accomplishments, such as they are, were vastly overshadowed by his addiction to drugs and black magic. For that reason alone we neither review nor recommend his books, and regard his so-called 'teachings' as exceedingly dangerous to body, mind and spirit.

Whoever wrote this (found on http://www.occult-mysteries.org/)) sums up my own thoughts on Crowley but whatever.

>>11600176
>Don't just think, observe. You are looking at what you think.
This. Watch the stream of consciousness pass by without getting dragged into the current of thought.

>>11600196
Ape you are needed here
>>21269378
and here
>>21269362

>>11600196
Ape you are needed here
>>>/x/21269378
and here
>>>/x/21269362

>>11600192
>very few nuggets of Truth in his [Crowley's] many books can easily be found more clearly and simply expressed elsewhere
So, the advancement of the Keyword, and revision of Coming Forth by Day/Pyramid Texts for use by the contemporary practitioner, the visual key to the Aethyrs, the relatively simple and down to earth explication of the sexual mysteries of the Rose Cross, etc., simply just don't count according to you and the author.

>Crowley ended his days as a broken-down drug-addict in a seedy boarding house
I love when people say Crowley's guilty of misinformation then repeat abject lies and rumors. Netherwood was a retirement home for professors, he had a quarter of the building to himself, and he died not only surrounded by family and friends, but with a lockbox of cash under his bed. So many people were trying to get into his funeral the guy planning it closed it off to the public.

>>11600192
it's adorable that youre getting half-truths and lies from a blog, and that you lapped it up like a dog who doesnt know better. based on those two paragraphs you quoted, it should be easy to tell that that website is full of shit, at least if youre a half-serious occultist. thanks for making it easy to avoid it.
>le black magic and white magic memes
instantly dropped. i should spam them with gay porn because theyre clearly a bunch of faggots.

>>11600226
>So many people were trying to get into his funeral the guy planning it closed it off to the public
Not to mention the doctors took him off the smack, as directed by the League of Nations health directives once they realized how addictive it is, between six and nine months before he died.

If he were as addicted as if so commonly asserted, the withdraw would have killed a man at his age and state of health.

>>11600232
Well, sorry to offend you. I found the resources on this website helpful early on in my occult journey, its pretty no-nonsense stuff, clearly articulated, and they are pretty self-aware about their biases. And they make no money, don't tout their own secret organizations, more to be said for 99% of the "occult materials" out there that want to make a quick buck publishing constant derivatives of "baby's first spell book"

I would recommend any beginners here before moving on to other texts. But anyway, have a nice day.

>>11600273
blind leading the blind, noobs leading noobs, memes leading memes. yawn

>>11600273
>99% of the "occult materials" out there that want to make a quick buck publishing constant derivatives of "baby's first spell book"
What are Brill, Three Hands Press, Xoanon, Scarlet Imprint, Hadean Press, Starfire Publications, etc., etc.

Just because Llewellyn sucks doesn't mean they're "99%" of the community.

>>11600124
>b-b-b-but wouldn't you agree Agrippa senpai would be REVOLTED???
lmao I bet you're a powerful wizard in your head.

>>11600257
>>11600226
Thank you

>>11600294
What about Oberon Ravenheart?

>>11600324
He, himself, is a goofy fuck but he's got the good sense to pull in authors that know what they're talking about for his introductory style texts.

>>11600294
>Brill, Three Hands Press, Xoanon, Scarlet Imprint, Hadean Press, Starfire Publications

Most of these are mere aesthetics wankery. Not all of us share (your?) love for Chumbley and the like. Grimoires that are nothing more than mere curiosities: collectors items that will only accumulate wealth on Ebay, Amazon.
Dragon Book of Essex seemed something like of a sketch book to me. Not something to published, but as a personal research item for highly personal work.

That being said, I also share some love for the works of Kenneth Grant. Intriguing, but let us be honest here: the man is everything what pseudo-initiation, pseudo-occultism and New Age stands for. I do like to read his works, but it is even at best a mere form of entertainment for me, like Twin Peaks, for some "weird" or outlandish factor. Same goes for the whole Zos Kia Cultus stuff. Mere curiosities.

>>11600367
>Most of these are mere aesthetics wankery.
Wrong
>Grimoires that are nothing more than mere curiosities
Except for the parts where they're workable, right?
>That being said, I also share some love for the works of Kenneth Grant
Fucking lol
So what kind of occultist are you exactly?

>>11600342
That was the impression I got, thank you. The handbook for the apprentice wizard was a lot better than I expected it to be.

>>11600380
>So what kind of occultist are you exactly?
Only the truest kind. I disregard all these meager "magicians" and their paltry "works" in favor of the truest and most high of all the occult arts.

>>11600367
>Most of these are mere aesthetics wankery
Oh so Three Hands' materials on grimoires from the 1600's is just aesthetics? Scarlet Imprint's analysis of tarot cards or Afro-Diaspora systems? Ken Grant's commentaries on Thelema? Hadean's materials on the ties between the Goes and Pharmakeia? JSK's Grimoirum Verum?

>but as a personal research item for highly personal work.
And yet the Column of the Serpent Cross used it as their group ritual work for like four years as it developed.

>>11600400
how bout you answer the question instead of being vague and evasive?

>>11600428
Pepe is the idol by which Kek is praised
Every double or triple is a prayer in his name
Trump is his worldly incarnation
Memes are magick
Viral videos are prophetic
The Earth isn't flat, but it used to be, and will again soon
Vaccines didn't cause autism but they do now

>>11600428
We're reaching pseud levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>>11600475
ironic magician but actualy real because ironic

>11600380
Tbh, I do not make much difference between books like The Kybalion or what grimoires these new-so-called "hip" publishing houses put out these days.

That is why I also do not visit /x/, at least here on /lit/ there is still some traditionalist discussion from time to time.

Guénon's correct observation was ultimately that a truly occult organization, no matter what its nature, never leaves behind written documents, grimoires or some ritualistic framework.

There is only direct initiation, oral transmission and living tradition. All other is dead and nothing more than mere psychic residues.

From the point of view of Islamic tasawwuf, what concerns the Afrad is different, whose master is Al Khidr and is considered outsie of what one might call "jurisdication of the Pole (al-Qutb)

Guénon writes they occur only in circumstances which make normal transmission impossible, for example in the absence of any regularly contituted initiatic organization.

Letter from Guénon March 14, 1937
>Al-Khidr is properly the Master of the Afrad, who are independent of the Qutb and may not even be known by him; it is indeed as you say a matter of something more ´direct´ and in a way outside defined and delimited functions no matter how elevated they may be; and this is why the number of the Afrad is indeterminate. This comparison is sometimes used: a prince, even if the excercises no function, is nonetheless higher in himself than a minister (at least if the minister is not himself a prince, something that can happen but which is not all necessary); in the spiritual order of the Afrad are analoguous to princes and the Aqtab to ministers. This is only a comparison, of course, but all the same it helps somewhat in understanding the relation of the ones to the others

>>11599430
Go back to your containment board you fraud.

See why the perennialist meme is bad now Ape?

>>11600498
>Tbh, I do not make much difference between books like The Kybalion or what grimoires these new-so-called "hip" publishing houses put out these days.
I don't think anyone described them as "hip" but the active difference would be that, at least in terms of Xoanon, they're actively trying to reinvigorate historical practices, like witchbottles, as where Kybalion is pretty much entirely New Thought where reference to historical Hermetica is virutally nonexistent.

Hilarious though that Al-Khidr was a topic of serious study by Chumbley, so much so that he integrated it into his Motto.

>>11600521
I knew that for years.

>>11600519
No.

>>11600498
>Tbh, I do not make much difference between books like The Kybalion or what grimoires these new-so-called "hip" publishing houses put out these days.
my sides are in orbit
>>11600475
what a surprise. kill yourself before the kek holocaust comes, it will be a lot less painful than what awaits you in the death camps.

>>11600498
what books you would suggest for approaching sufism/tasawwuf?

>>11599430
I guess I should have divided the cultists and the larpers. You're just a cultist. Not in a bad way. Just culty like a christian is churchy. No larp from you, the real deal. Least no more than any other religious group is a larp. The "larpers" who cause me to ignore /x/ are the schizophrenics who cannot distinguish fact and fiction and unintentionally larp their fantasies.

>>11600557
You obviously don't know what a cult or a cultist is. Why don't you share with the class your definition so we can double check?

>>11600555
There's a pretty solid collection of texts on Sufism in the library, though nothing delving into specific Orders therein, linked here: >>11573780

>>11600557
And what exactly is "culty" about a synchretic approach that seeks to integrate both old and new iterations of serious Work?

>>11600557
Exactly. Ape is way to knowledgeable to be a fraud. Although, I even hesitate to call him "culty" since his magick seems to be very expansive/broadform and he doesn't really seem to shoebox himself into a single school of thought. He's a dick though. Not an asshole, mind you, a dick. Like the team america explanation of pussies, dicks, and assholes.

>>11600530
>Hilarious though that Al-Khidr was a topic of serious study by Chumbley, so much so that he integrated it into his Motto.

I hope I did not make myself appear as some Islamic fundamentalist here.

I also was not saying that one cannot achieve initiation, or spiritual realization, what you want to call it, without being initiated to an active chain. Because that is exactly, what being "outside the jurisdication of the Pole" means and it refers to those initiates who are considered "Afrad" and thus are under the aegis of Al-Khidr.

Khidr itself is found in one of his allegories to murder a man, to prove a point, how unexplainable and perfect the actions of the Afrad are: and may even appear evil, or dismoral, to those under the jurisdication of the Al-Qutb (pole)

My personal problem, and for example Guénon´s problem, working with such Grimoires, is the danger of what psychic residues one might be afflicted with. There are sometimes deities, names of powers, even old gods invoked which have not been actively worshipped for thousands of years.

It is not also some spiritual, or hermetic snobbish attitude "My system is the right one", but is is the contrast between living and the dead.

For example, if one would work with the Egyptian pantheon, one would be working directly with "Psychic Residues" of that dead tradition: let us be honest here: we do not know fully how the Egyptian priesthood performed their rites, we have no lineages dating back from those times (Let us not consider Crowley´s claim of being incarnation of some priest here)

From the view of Tree of Life (which is living) you are working with the Shells (Klippoth) when working with Dead Gods and ancient systems.

I know some make fun of Guénon, but he himself dabbled with Papus and the French occult scene, and even in his later days he was bitter that he felt his "soul" itself had been tainted and not even the Living Religion (Islam) could truly "purify" him from his earlier experiences.

>>11600590
I'm only a dick to people making broad and sweeping pronouncements that reveal their utter ignorance about topics they haven't even bothered to look into.

>>11600582
Being a member of a cult? Pretty sure he went by Frater for a while which I would presume mean he joined either Thelema or Golden Dawn for however brief a period. I don't mean cult in a bad way. Cult can be good. Like cult movies. I would probably consider the difference between cults and religions to be largely a numbers game.
>>11600585
Sorry. I am kinda dicking around. The occult is pretty (oc)culty tho.
>>11600590
True.

>>11600621
>Khidr itself is found in one of his allegories to murder a man, to prove a point, how unexplainable and perfect the actions of the Afrad are: and may even appear evil, or dismoral, to those under the jurisdication of the Al-Qutb (pole)
You realize Chumbley wrote a whole book called Qutb, yeah?

>From the view of Tree of Life (which is living) you are working with the Shells (Klippoth) when working with Dead Gods and ancient systems.
And from the view of actual Iyyun practitioners you're only working Klipot when you're busting the corrosive habits tendencies which prevent your own attainment, the age of the practices have pretty much nothing to do with it.

>>11600625
I'm a member of a few organizations.
In no way do I feel beholden to the dogma of any of them.

>>11600622
That's fine though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2GwrR-4Q9E

>>11600636
Not to mention the doctrine of Qutub is suffused through Sabbatic praxes ("The hand moves, the quill moves, the Point is Still") to the point of adapting Zoroastrian methods of centering and orientation around Alborz and linking it back to the concept of Mt. Abiegnus and the Vault of the Adepts.

So for these being grimoires that are "only curiosities" they certainly seem to deal with concepts you view as foundational to your practice.

>>11600636
>And from the view of actual Iyyun practitioners you're only working Klipot when you're busting the corrosive habits tendencies which prevent your own attainment

I am not going to start argue about the Tree of Life here, everybody must formulate their own understanding of it and for me "the Tree" has undergone many different versions. I highly dislike the more (rather subjective and psychological) model proposed by Israel Regardie and his book "A Garden of Pomegranates" was one of the first books on the subject I read. I threw the book to trash bin few years ago because I believe Mr. Regardie "tainted" my view of the Tree for many years to come.

Those corrosive, habits tendencies or difficulties could be likened in my Tree to Severities of Geburah and those deep "corrosive habits" would be situated in Yesod for me. It is not as if you do not enough Work with the base Sephiroth without even thinking of the Shells.

Kelipot, for me, represents something infra-psychic, satanic and something which you cannot work with. Working literally with dangerous pathogens.

Only operation I would even think of working with them, would be something akin to Abramelin or other great retreat ritual where you summon them and ultimately Banish them for good.

>>11600816
>I highly dislike the more (rather subjective and psychological) model proposed by Israel Regardie and his book "A Garden of Pomegranates" was one of the first books on the subject I read.
You're preaching to the choir here. Iyyun practitioners are Jews who despise the psychological model.

The contemplative methods I describe are where you reify those habits and immolate them upon the altar-fires of Love and Will, from which sparks of Understanding fly as they are broken, rendering the rectified habit-field as the "feast of the kosher pig", the broken habits and tendencies becoming sanctified and offering glimpses of the Supernal.

>>11600839
>The contemplative methods I describe are where you reify those habits and immolate them upon the altar-fires of Love and Will, from which sparks of Understanding fly as they are broken, rendering the rectified habit-field as the "feast of the kosher pig", the broken habits and tendencies becoming sanctified and offering glimpses of the Supernal.

Noble thoughts and not something I would not necessarily disagree with; but you cannot Redeem the Kelipot.

>[These are the kings who ruled in the land of EDOM before a king ruled in Israel]

At best, you can bar them outside your Jurisdiction and hope for the best.

>>11600942
>but you cannot Redeem the Kelipot
Pretty sure I trust the word of well respected Hebrew mystics more than anon on shitpostchan.

Wait I thought you didn't like Crowley, but you use 777?

>>11600964
>Pretty sure I trust the word of well respected Hebrew mystics more than anon on shitpostchan.

Then the Hebrew mystics must be totally ignorant of their own "Word of God" for The Lord is a man of War.

To introduce Edomite Kings to such realm would be to revoke the Unity, sovereign crown of Kether. That is the realm of Thamiel or Duality.

I do not blame you, but our views of the Shells seems to be on a totally different level: you seem to treat them as some personal, psychological hinderances on the way of your Progress on the tree while totally ignoring their Universal nature and what they represent.

>Wait I thought you didn't like Crowley, but you use 777?
I have never said a bad word about Crowley around these parts.

>>11601012
>you seem to treat them as some personal, psychological hinderances
They are very real and they are very universally applicable.

But I'm sure you know better than Hebrew Kabbalists actually raised in their tradition(s) of contemplation.

>>11600498
>Guénon's correct observation was ultimately that a truly occult organization, no matter what its nature, never leaves behind written documents, grimoires or some ritualistic framework.
I’ve been interested in Guenon and respected him for a while but if this characterization is true I’d lose respect for him. I’ve only read one work by him (Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta) and am still planning to read more, but there is no doubt occult societies have their members create literary works for specific purposes from time to time. Look at the great Sufi poetry and productions of Hindu literature, for instance. You must be mischaracterizing him. OK, you can say they leave behind a SHADOW of the real truth and oral initiation is the real deal, but there’s no doubt some works of art and literature have great truths coded deliberately into them.

>>11601023
Other poster just bringing up something totally unrelated to all this stuff. What do you think of Gurdjieff? I’ve studied him for a while and feel perhaps the same way towards him as you feel towards Crowley and am wondering what a “student of Crowley” (if I can call you that, although I know it may be an imperfect/condescending appellative) thinks of the Gurdjieff system. I’m tempted to take the plunge into studying Crowley after having plunged myself into a study of Gurdjieff’s system for a few years now.

>>11600585
thanks, found them

yo anybody got a copy of Disinformation's Book of Lies that's better than the one in libgen? (the english 70MB one)

anyone read much gershom scholem

was he right about the kabbalah?

Why are you attractive to this stuff? Weird. It's like religion isn't for you, so you look for mystic shit which is borderline delusional like flat earth theory.

>>11603806
Not an "occultist" myself but a large percentage of the writers posted here as memes including the Greeks, philosophers, Newton and Shakespeare were learned in the mysteries, studied esotericism, alchemy, or were free masons themselves.

>>11603855
Stating that Newton did alchemy or engaged in the occult isn't helping anyone's case. He looked into that stuff the same way he explored science, and we know he didn't find anything. No elixir or life, nothing that turned metals to gold... Same goes for all those other people - scientists got things wrong, we get it, but today we have better evidence that this kind of stuff is make-believe.

>>11603889
You have a fundamentally incorrect understanding of how the cosmos operates

>>11603906
You concluded that I am fundamentally wrong about the universe because I reject any mysticism that has zero evidence to back it up. Wonderful. Do you really expect me to believe something without a shred of evidence? I'm not even talking about proof, or "scientific fact", or "empirical data" - I can understand belief in God based on feeling, but mysticism is straight up fantasy. This is why people think occultists are delusional.

>>11603981
Have you ever tried seriously delving into mysticism yourself?

>>11581494
kek

>>11603993
Yes, I was brought up on it, and at one point bought it too, which explains my resentment. If other people get something out of it, then good for them.

>>11604064
So you had occultist parents or something then? THat's unusual

This guy's lectures are unironically the best introduction to the subject.

>>11603889
>>11604064
Well, this is exactly my problem with this stuff. For some reason it actually appeals to me, but I know very well that is pure delusion and, in some cases as far as I know, it could lead into some sort of self-induced hallucinations.

are any of you actually wizards?

can i cast spells to do things that i couldn't accomplish without casting spells?

>>11604648
Depends. I have made/earned £740.000 solely through occult means, only conducted a Goetic ritual and did not even leave my house.

Week later I got a letter from some lawyer. Turns out I had rich uncle, I had never heard of, who died recently and whose sole inheritor was I. Easy and effective.

>>11604656
can you make a magical artifact that works for someone that doesnt use magic? e.g. can you make me a pair of socks that lets me win in vegas?

>>11604706
for the small price of £740.000

>>11604706
>>11604706
With magick, everything is possible. But dont think it is easy like some Disney magic

For example, I was 26 years old and pretty frustrated I was only 5.2 feet manlet. So fed up with being so fuckign short, I invoked some good Goetia stuff going on. Forget about the stuff week later and my legs started to hurt as hell so I went to the doc.

Turns out my growth plates had never fully closed and 2 years later I stand at 6.1feet. They had to medically close them so I dont end up with gigantism

Only thing I have no tried yet is penis lengthening, because let us be quite honest here: I am above average and more than quite satisfied with it at the moment.

>>11604724
what you described sounds easy like some disney magic though. what was difficult about it?

>>11604656
>>11604724
Are you serious, anon?
Tell me your sources, please!
What kind of magic are you into?

>>11604774
he clearly said goetia in both posts

>>11604799
Ok, but I need sources!
How can I get into this?

>>11603806
True, it's also weird how people shit on Huxley and Scientology as they should, but then defend malicious con artists like Crowley.

Whatever diety or spirit you believe in, whatever ontological system, doesn't give two shits about your height or your oneitis, and pretending that you can cast spells like a faggot magician is complete materialist influenced delusion verging on schizophrenia.

>>11604808
the word goetia is your source.
now go get raped by a demon.

>>11604835
tell me about what getting raped by a demon is like

>>11604853
it would be extremely painful

hey i would endure a certain amount of extreme pain for 740000 pounds. are you a demon negotiating with me?

>>11604724
You can control your own vibration and achieve the same things without putting yourself at risk towards demons. Read Neville Goddard

>>11604835
I need a beginner's guide, anon.

>>11604904
that's like needing a beginner's guide to playing paganini's 24 caprices. it's not beginners stuff and unless you know what the fuck you are doing you should stay far away.

>>11604893
Neville is new age bullshit.

>>11604933
You're right, I don't know shit.
But how do you initiate yourself?
Can it be taught/learned, or is it "innate"?

>>11604942
His advice works. Don’t get fooled into lumping it with new age scams like The Secret. He actually never asked for money while teaching and giving books, saying that he was able to manifest money as he needed it. He even went as far as telling people to avoid all “gurus” who ask for money.
If you don’t want to read Neville, you can just read The Bible and receive the same information.

>>11604976
start reading
>>11604988
neville = waste of time and ineffective

>>11604816
>pretending that you can cast spells like a faggot magician is complete materialist influenced delusion verging on schizophrenia
Opposite of materialism. Most people ITT are anti-materialists. And I don't mean idealists, I mean literal anti-materialists who get fucking buttmad at scientists for saying simple things like "do you have any evidence for what you just said?"

>>11605093
Reading what?

>>11605242
I spent time in neuro and chem and got a degree in archaeology.

Lots of folks over in /omg/ have science degrees, engineering, maths, more neuro/psych.

>>11604816
>True, it's also weird how people shit on Huxley and Scientology as they should, but then defend malicious con artists like Crowley.
?
Crowley didn't really con folks.
He got ripped off way more than he ripped people off. Man was independently wealthy, published on his own dime, etc., until the late 20's. A.'.A.'. is free. OTO only asks for basic dues like any other fraternal organization. He had multiple houses sold out from under him by his caretakers.

>>11604161
Nah he goes too far into topics largely unrelated to the occult BUT the Trialogues, his Hermetic lectures, and "Alchemical Dream" are actually really good lectures.

>>11604561
>>11603806
Generally speaking "occult" simply means the "hidden aspects" of various religious systems. We recognize that there is potency in the varieties of religious experience but they have been severely eroded by exoteric religions of the kind that produces YEC. It's really a sad state of affairs, both the notion of "believing" a religion and the confrontational divide between religion and science are modern (as in "modern era" starting in the 16/1700's) phenomena. I rarely see folks pointing at a Warao shaman or a Vajrayana monk and complaining about how delusional they are, but as soon as someone wants to experiment with a grimoire in the West the accusations of mental defectiveness start to fly.

>>11603855
>>11603889
We can shit on alchemists all we want, doesn't change the fact that it was the direct precursor to chemistry and wound up discovering elements by distilling piss.

>>11603792
I've read a lot of Scholem and he's really really on point, along with Aryeh Kaplan and David Chaim Smith.

>>11605308
> BUT the Trialogues, his Hermetic lectures, and "Alchemical Dream"
those were the ones I was referring to, you know, "best introduction to the subject" would imply lectures on the subject, you know... you know?

>>11605321
>best introduction to the subject" would imply lectures on the subject, you know... you know?
No, actually, I don't know because this godforsaken website is awful for catching nuance in replies and I really don't think like his UFO lectures or some of his other out-in-left-field talks are really relevant to what we're doing.

>>11605282
>Lots of folks over in /omg/ have science degrees, engineering, maths, more neuro/psych.

Please go back to your containment board and your containment threads that is /omg/.

I do not care if some nuclear physicists would chat up there, because that does not take away from the fact that even advanced engineers and true men of science like Jack Parsons can be in their personal affairs heavily deluded, childish and prone to daydreaming

Or just drop the fucking trip when posting here or something, damn

>>11605374
>Please go back to your containment board and your containment threads that is /omg/.
For the second time, no.

>I do not care if some nuclear physicists would chat up there, because that does not take away from the fact that even advanced engineers and true men of science like Jack Parsons can be in their personal affairs heavily deluded, childish and prone to daydreaming
If you recall I was commenting on the "anti-materialism" comment, not about whatever personal beliefs anyone has. I really don't know anyone in the ritual magick community with any kind of hostility to science, as a method, body of facts, or way of life.

>Or just drop the fucking trip when posting here or something, damn
I'm sorry some squiggles in the namefield that I use to make the curator of the previously posted library easily identifiable upset you.

Can't leave this thread without making a contribution. cheers everybody

>>11605404
I really need to back through that.

Might I also recommend pic related. Overall hypothesis is rather shaky but the book's compelling nonetheless. It's in the library.

>>11573211
Reality Transurfing volumes 1-5 by Vadim Zeland

>>11604774
>>11604933

you can very easily lose control of your mind , volition, and sanity doing this kind of stuff - it isn't for the beginner. that's why most self-claimed occultists sound delusional, they most likely are. or have become that way in the process.

again, one doesn't go simply into invoking demons. and even if the "spells" work there will most likely be severe unforeseen consequences. and maybe not in this life...

instead, turn your focus to meditation and knowing yourself and G-d. the divine, the secret "occult" knowledge, can be found in YOU. studying the various holy books of the world can be helpful also...

>>11605859
Which were the first books you read about this topics?

>>11605859
kek'd

You have no idea what you're talking about.