/lit/ - Literature

>>11582466
I bought it on a whim because I always see it posted around here but was f*cking appalled when I got to the part about the hero archetype and the beauty and the beast bit about how women only go through the process of individuation by marrying and having kids. I mean it's so dated his theories about anima and animus don't account for queer theory.

I guess it's my fault for not figuring out why this chauvinistic drivel is so popular around here.

>tfw wanted to read jung forever
>ruined by jbp-spergs
Everytime

>>11582753
found the extreme left cu ck

>>11582753
kek.

>>11582801
not an argument

>>11582764
rationalizing away your laziness

>>11582811
damn you are rational my duuuuuuuuuude

He has neat ideas but a lot I think is ultimately bullshit. Take the collective unconscious, for example. Which seems more likely: that a collection of symbols and archetypes exists in every human mind through genetic inheritance OR that human minds are remarkably similar and tend to create similar symbols when exposed to similar phenomena?

>>11582895
The first, actually. By far.

>>11582930
What makes you think that? Do you think that a hypothetical child raised by wolves would have any idea what an old man looks like, let alone have a symbol in his head as the "wise old man"? It seems more likely people just notice that old people have a lot of experience and are a valuable resource.

>>11582753
>don't account for queer theory.

>>11582946
That's a false equivalence.

I recommend Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson, it will solve your perceived quandary. What you're lacking is a comprehension of the interaction between the right hemisphere of the brain, in conjunction with the limbic system, and the left hemisphere with respect to fantastic narrative construction and chronological articulation of those narratives across individuals through the faculty of speech.

It's a very complex process, and without proper reference schema (primarily consisting of understanding reference framework for the incorporation of the process of determination of the significance of specific objects and concepts for motor output.) then you will not be capable of understanding the explanation.

>>11582946
Not him but that's a very bad argument, people have natural predispositions that can be effected, or even molded by the environment (one could argue it is not environmental at all and simply the "nature" reacting to stimulus).

>>11582967
Peterson actually has a nice little conversation with Iain McGilchrist that addresses this idea in some small part.

>>11582946
No and don't listen to >>11582967, the hypothetical child will impose a symbol or archetype of "wise old man" on the senior wolf that bothers to nurture and guide him or her. Man creates then puts meaning into it.

>>11582967
>I recommend Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson

Stopped reading there.

>>11582753
wow

>>11582981
>>11582985
t. Someone who's never read a book above the 12th grade level in their lives.

>>11583026
t. a tripfag with no argument

>>11582967
Peterson isn't very high on my to-read list, maybe I'll look up >>11582979
I don't discredit the idea entirely, I just have serious doubts about the level of innateness of it.

>>11582981
This seems reasonable.

>>11583026
Cool it with the ad hominem

>>11582753
Holy... I want more....

>>11583042
Peterson is a shit Jungian and more like Campbell. Just read Jung.

>>11583054
Well more Jung and Campbell are in fact higher on my reading list than Peterson

>>11582753
based and red-pilled

>>11583042
If you can't understand Jung, then I wouldn't recommend maps of meaning. It's a very difficult book. But, if you feel confused about Jung, then give it a try. It's a serious book, though.

>>11582895
>which is more likely, the collective unconscious existing or the collective unconscious
Don't critique things you haven't read about. Its not like the theory is about everyone having a McDonald's logo shoved up their brains asshole somewhere.

>>11583081
Read them and you don't need to read Peterson.

>>11582753
fags have forgotten more things about misogyny than heteros even know

>>11582753
>Jung's theories aren't even difficult to modify for the evolution of the psyche into its contemporary state
>yet people unironically see him this way
>especially because jbp
Y

>>11583042
Well, you can either read it, or get a degree in psychology. Choice is yours.

After three decades spent poring over everything Jung wrote, I can distill his wisdom down to two simple tenets:

1. Clean your room.

2. Be an individual.

From these I extrapolate that you should never organize with others like yourself to fight for your own ethnic, cultural, or racial survival. That would be collectivism, the Worst Thing in the World.

>>11583312
based and redpilled

>>11583191
>Don't critique things you haven't read about
Ok I won't. I've read some of Jung's writing on the subject.

>>11583387
You shouldn't lie on the internet. If you aren't lying, go re-read his work because you heavily misinterpreted it.

>>11583127
I'm not exactly confused with Jung, I just don't agree with him on everything. I don't agree for example, that a mental patient seeing a tube in the sun and somebody from hundreds of years ago seeing the same thing means a solar tube is some innate image.

>>11583400
I will at some point, but it seemed like Jung was really adamant about the C.O.'s symbols being innate and not just "similar creations". Like at first I thought that was what he was getting at but then he said that it was specifically NOT that. Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

>>11583472
>C.O.
*C.U.
Onconscious, heh

>>11583472
They're archetypes for a reason, they show up differently. Jung's theory is a model, but if you keep it in the realm of abstract you're applying him incorrectly. He gives you tools and symbolic language, but the only use for the model is as an analytical tool. It is not a description of reality, but a guide to the inner world of the individual. As I'm sure you remember him stating, ultimately one must forget everything they know of symbolism when analyzing an individual. One symbol may mean something different to different people.

He's starkly opposed to the Freudian idea of what amounts to a dream dictionary. Jung is a translator of dreams, trying to understand the language of the individual's unconscious.

It's not a rigid thing.

>>11583616
I skimmed through my underlines and found he said it isn't a case of "inherited ideas" but "inherited thought-patterns" which seems more reasonable, but I'm not sure how important it is that the thought patterns are "inherited" rather than just "similar".

>>11582753
>queer theory

>>11583448
That's because >>11582967

It's a phenomena which isn't particularly mysterious. It's advanced psychology, is the thing. Not something a 101 introductory class will teach, but crucial to full understanding of our current models of information processing.

>>11582753

Here's a doctor. That's one sick pasta.

>>11583638
>I'm not sure how important it is that the thought patterns are "inherited" rather than just "similar".
I mean, why is it important that genes are inherited and not just similar? It's not something Jung himself goes into so much, but there's an aspect of evolution at play, psychically. It's why he often juxtaposes primitive and civilized man. But it as well is there to explain why sometimes civilized man will have dreams that make no sense, save for in a more mythological or primitive light.

i gave this book to a girl. we haven't talked since. she was cute and i am stupid

>>11582753
>queer theory
weak bait; he literally argued homosexuality wasn't a "pathological perversion" in a time when it was widely regarded as so

Can anyone think of any careers involving Jungian psychology which aren't psychotherapist? I'm really passionate about Jung's ideas and would love to study them further and apply them to improve human wellbeing, but I don't think I have the right personality to be a therapist

>>11583794
>give girl thing trying to build relationship
>girl forgets your alive 4 hours later
I learned this when I was 19

>>11584326
I actually bought the book because I’m a classical musician. I wanted to see if I could apply any of his ideas into my music, or music videos some how

I also work in sales, and I read that a serial killer used his work to kill people. So I figured maybe it would help me sell stuff more

>>11584378
What ideas do you have for incorporating Jung into your music?

>>11584413
I haven’t gotten too far into the book

I was hoping to learn more about universal symbology maybe to tap into a desire of the listener. Maybe there is some geometric music pattern or type of sound that resonates with the unconscious mind or something

And also wanted to learn about my own unconscious mind to understand where my music comes from

>>11584326
You can study psych but not become an actual therapist. Lots of people go into research or other areas after undergrad. In my country it’s very a very rigorous process to become a practicing psych, if you do the whole process you’ll actually be in the minority. You could do bachelor of psych + honours and then switch to a masters/phd of philosophy for instance. You could even do a research masters but not bother with the accreditation process. Research the pathways your psychology institution offers and make a plan.

>>11582466
read the intro you dolt it is a collection by his researchers.

>>11582985
me too kek

>>11585210
What if I double majored in psychology and philosophy? Or psych and a STEM major?

>>11585276
Yeah a double major is a pretty smart idea actually. Doing a double major in phil + psych is a slam dunk if you’re interested in academia or published writing but if you combine that with a STEM degree you’ll be entering the very profitable area of org psych. Tbh apart from actually becoming a practicing psychologist org psych is probably the next potentially profitable field. If you get enough experience companies will pay you thousands to go and conduct workplace seminars at companies where you could integrate archetype theory (most people who do that focus on Myers Briggs so you’ll be a revelation with anything more complex). You might have to spend a few years working in company’s HR department but if you do the hard yards, build up contacts and start your own business you’ll be fucking rolling in money.

>>11585318
Thank you very much! I’m not actually the same person you originally responded to, but I related to their desire to work with and share Jungian ideas. Are you a practicing psychologist yourself or do you have experience with the subject?

>>11585339
I’m doing psych honours at the moment so I’m grappling with the exact thing I just described. I think I’m settling on becoming a practitioner but the road ahead is long and hard. It was a struggle to find a uni to accept me for fourth year study when I didn’t graduate with first class honours and from what I hear masters is even more competitive. Really I just enjoy reading about psych and I sort of despise my country’s obsession with CBT above all other therapy styles. The sad thing is that unless you live in continental Europe you probably aren’t gonna learn shit about Jung or anyone else in undergrad. My honest advice is that if you’re like me and deeply passionate about actual psychological theory and unsure about practicing, study a bachelor of phil and learn from that angle. If you want an actual career outside of academia but still love Jung then do your undergrad and switch to a masters of phil/research masters or go into org psych. Again as I said before the real money is in org psych, if you study a dual degree in engineering/psych and get a job, for instance, doing on-site consultations of BHP workers you’ll be making 6 figures a year easy. Other than that it’s really up to you but take my advice, if you wanna actually practice psych with clients DO NOT slack off with your grades, it’s all or nothing, just wish I realised that earlier.

>>11585418
Where you from, man? Org sounds like a nightmare.

>>11585488
Australia and yeah org is a nightmare. Most people who do it end up in a HR position or as I described earlier, going to businesses and giving out Myers Briggs tests to employees. I did an org psych unit in undergrad and most of the content was variations of trait theory and models of effective businesses, dozens and dozens of charts with arrows pointing towards boxes and so on. That being said all my uni friends who dropped further study for working at a company are making big dosh meanwhile I’m still collecting government bux and living at my parents house. so it’s up to you to decide who the real loser is.

>>11582753
Guaranteed replies

>>11583794
dumb fuck for giving over your book then not perpetuating your relationzzzzzzz

>>11585418
you can always become a careers advisor if all else fails.

>>11585577
Perhaps you should try your luck applying for overseas visas? Do you think your window has passed for clinical psych?

>>11585676
Nah I’m still fairly young so I’m gonna go ahead and keep trying. As for going overseas, I contemplated studying psychodynamic therapy in Vienna but I don’t think I’d ever want to live somewhere else. If I go through with it and become a clinical psych I might live in Vienna for a year and see how that goes.

>>11585872
Sounds like leaving is your best chance at success. Everyone does it. For good reason.

>>11585881
Nah I’m a bit of a nationalist-lite. I really care about Australia and I believe that a country’s success depends upon good people staying behind, even if times are tough. Not saying I’m a genius-hero or anything but if I can do good here then I will.

>>11585929
I respect that. But you also have to consider the fact that national geography is not static, and can change for the worse. You have a vested interest, genetically and psychologically, in being where the best opportunities are for yourself. Because those opportunities extend to your children, potentially.

If Australia is stagnating economically, which it is, going down with the ship proves nothing.

>>11583312

>>11584876
>Maybe there is some geometric music pattern or type of sound that resonates with the unconscious mind or something


learn some music theory you retarded fucking pretentious twat

>>11585948
Well since Australia is stagnating economically that will probably broaden my client base. In all seriousness, Australia psychology is just beginning to become incredibly popular, yet it lacks any soul or grace. This might be too lofty an aspiration, but I hope to be part of the generation that destroys the positivism that has infected Australian psych like a plague. CBT is taught so extensively because it is the only therapy with scientific evidence for its effectiveness but this is only because CBT is easy to study due to its short timeframe. For these reasons whether I go into clinical or research I think I can carve out a niche for myself and live comfortably. Of all the people I studied with, I was the only person who read outside of the curriculum and that was only because of my prior interest in philosophy. The fact that psychology is even taught to people who haven't even read the greeks is absolutely appalling. In my mind It's like training a blind man to do heart surgery. Anyways my point is that even if my environment is not perfect I hope that I can make some kind of a difference and in doing so carve out a comfortable existence.

>>11582466
There's so much wrong with what you've just said.

>>11582764
Don't let them dissuade you. Jung was a genius, even if people like this >>11582801
read his work.

>>11586053
Hopefully your plans are well formulated; if not, you'll drown as the country sinks under the waves. Good luck.

>>11586526
>tripfag
>worthless opinion