/lit/ - Literature

>>11498816
>>11498816

literature board, cuckold. Try a redpill

>>11498816
what about antimatter though?

>>11498825
It's still matter

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zsLOVYTLt90

>>11498816
*thinks a thought*
heh...nothin personnel, kid

>>11498856
That thought has a physical basis in the brain

Meaning isn't composed of matter.
Matter only exists because it has potential, not vice reversa.

How can pure matter even begin to separate itself into various distinct forms? There must be a formal principle which exists distinct from matter.

>>11498858
*solves the hard problem of consciousness with one sentence in the literary review portion of the Hitler Youth monthly magazine*
Heh, nothin personnel kid

>physicalism
aristotelians were a mistake

>>11498816
>Only matter exists, fuck you

>>11498816
Matter is literally a spook

>>11498816
>he lives in fairy-tale land where everything can be magically explained with this substance which no one can perceive and can't be definitively proven to even exist

>>11498816
nominalist bastard child materialist

>>11498816
unBased and cringepilled

>>11498816
Matter is a type of energy, brainlet.

>>11498816
whats this then?

just goes to show you people were coming up with retarded shit long before "post-modernism" i mean some of that enlightment era shit is basically preposterous yet some how western civ didnt collapse

>>11499905
>post-modernism
just say relativism bucko

>>11499905
>I mean some of that enlightment era shit is basically preposterous yet some how western civ didnt collapse
>t. someone who doesn't understand their own intellectual heritage
Your surprise that western civilization didn't collapse during the period of the enlightenment is supremely ironic. The enlightenment was a revival of the western philosophical tradition which began with the Greeks. Ideas like Reason and Mind and Self reexamined during the enlightenment are core concepts of western society, from which all of our knowledge is derived from. These ideas you call "preposterous" are the actual foundation of western knowledge itself. If we were to forget these ideas in favor of e.g. incoherent materialistic notions and assumptions, then that would be the biggest indicator of societal collapse.

>>11499999
>99999
checked and pseuds eternally btfo

>>11498816
>Trustung your brain to tell you that what you perceive to be real is actually real

lol

>>11498816
are materialists conscious or just npc automatons hehehe

materialists actually fucking freak me out, deeply disturbed individuals

>>11498816
>Only matter exists

holy shit i didnt know they had an empiricist version of "the rationalists" that's a total must cop

>>11500057
I heard the translations for those are horrible
can anyone confirm?

>>11500070
idk the empiricists are all in english so..

>>11498816
>Only matter exists, fuck you
ok but then what is THIS SHIT???? explain this matter-fag. shieeet you can't even explain what most of the universe is made out of how am i supposed to trust u dawg

>>11500097
>mfw there's energy just laying around free for the taking

>>11498816
Can you have intelligent thoughts? Can you even fucking read? Jesus Christ, anon. Seriously, look at yourself in the mirror and say “I’m a fuggin retard,” then immediately proceed to hang yourself.

>>11500108
>mfw most of the universe is made of energy made for black people to get rich

>>11498816
this is the kind of embarassing shit you end up saying if you never bother to read outside of marxism

>>11499999
Quints of truth.

>>11498913
based

>>11498816
Die then retard. You are only a material object with some complexity, nothing more. A temporal minute phenomenon. Drop dead.

>>11498816
the mind has an antenna
the source of life is the feedback loop

>>11500631
against marxism but will spout literally retarded nonsense like this. goddamn clockwork

>>11500667
i'm only being half ironic

also I have no idea about marxism that's why i made those threads, so i'd hear both sides. As of right now, I think Marx was a visionary thinker who observed some really obvious things and systematized them in a really beautiful way. like all big world changing ideas it has a lot of passionate supporters and critics. I am just a curious person, i don't know enough about anything to "identify" with it.


I had ideas like this on LSD and the like... the illusion of duality. I think nature "talks" to itself.. I don't think that's TOO nutjobbish is it?

Is this serious academic thinking from that great old tradition of answering the hard problem of consciousness? no it isn't but I don't think all the easy problems have been solved yet either..some of which could perhaps change our thinking drastically, and if it's not materialist than i could be a whole lot saner than the reality.

>>11500700
>I had ideas like this on LSD and the like... the illusion of duality. I think nature "talks" to itself.. I don't think that's TOO nutjobbish is it?
next time you do acid read Hegel instead; you fucked up and went full dude-weed-idealism

>>11498816
Begone to the den you've come from. Faul p-zombie this is not your world!
>begins chanting in latin

What about energy tho?

>>11500799
relativity my dude

>>11498816
>being patrician enough to shit on substance ontology
>too plebeian for process ontology

Get on my level, fagotron

>>11500822
why are you shilling this book two days in a row anon?

>>11498816
Also, materialism is not opposed to idealism. In this way: if mind is electrochemical, and life is electrochemical, but life is a result of natural energetic action upon matter, creating dissipative stable systems that become increasingly complex and get labeled "alive" (Jeremy England, physics MIT), AND plasma can be observed exhibiting swarm behavior (David Bohm, physics) THEN energy is God, God is fully material, and there is no reason to ever think that matter and ideal should be opposed. We even see it in computers: the abstract data in your computer has a physical basis and an ideal nature.

Take the Process Ontology Pill, OP. You can have both matter and spirit because spirit is energy.
Consciousness is an attribution my nigger, there is no problem that is not made hard by attribution: we designate the problem "hard" and proceed to invent ways for the goalpost to be moved.

>>11500850
It's relevant to the OP discussions on both occasions.

If I was actually shilling, there'd be daily threads on the catalog with a frog pic and "WHY IS BASED MAFFIE SO REDPILLED, NOW THAT THE DUST HAS SETTLED??"

>>11500871
Sounds interesting. Makes me think of Spinoza and how mind and extension are attributes of the same substance I.e. parallelism

>>11500879
kek, okay. did you enjoy it? i read about half of it a couple of years ago. was a philosophylet back then (and still am, but not so bad). i was stymied by everything being an aspect of teotl, felt like why am i reading this, i know this already from the platonists.

>>11500761
ok lit how do i into hegel?

i know what the word zietgiest means, the spirit whateer phenomenology something..

what's the low down
that whole german idealism thing? history concentrating to a point

>>11500921
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOk6HB609po

>>11498827
where's the proof.jpg

>>11500941
I mean it’s just normal matter but with a different charge. Positrons are just electrons but positive, otherwise exactly the same. It’s been detected and synthesised. The real question is: why is the universe mostly matter and not anti-matter? Why is there an asymmetry of matter and anti-matter? Why is the universe not made out of mostly anti-matter?

>>11500951
wait isnt it the other way around?
thought the universe "out there" was nothing but a hugenormous mass of anti-matter.

>>11498816
Fucking Cavedweller!

>>11500981
It's dark matter l, and that is a way of saying they don't know what is it, and why it's there.

>>11500804
Just because you can convert one into the other does not men it does not exist.

>>11501027
ice and water both "exist" but they convert between one another because they are both water. relativity suggests that whatever matter and energy are, they are both the same "something". the real question should be: 'is that "something" physical or non-physical'; for which see
>>11498838

>>11501042
Meh, I don't like explanations that are well this is things we know(physical) and this is things we don't(non physical), is just cheep, non answer.

Philosophy of Mathematics proved Plato was right all along and made every Western philosopher since Eriugena irrelevant! (Ficino exempted of course.)

>>11501126
citation needed

>>11501070
it's not an explanation, it's a critique of physicalism

>>11501134
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism-mathematics/

>>11500981
No it's a specific problem in physics called baryogenesis and one of the many examples of neccesary fine tuning where God fixes the physics to allow the present universe to exist.

>>11498816

Is there any way we can meddle with the brains of STEM people to turn them into the philosophical zombies they so obviously want to be. I am absolutely one hundred and ten percent serious about this. It really is worth considering that we should look into some method of removing all the functions of the brain which allow STEMfags to do anything other than whatever they need for their autistic little field. Honestly. Give me a mathematician and an ice cream scoop and half an hour. Love and passion, nope not using it, you don't need it (*SCOOOP*). Desire for meaning and authenticity, don't think you even knew you had this (*SCOOOOOOP*). Basic ethical and aesthetic sensibilities, well known to any well-adjusted three your old, you certainly won't miss this (*SCOOOOOOOOOOP*). Then we screw the top of his head back on and marvel at our creation: the ideal STEMfag, reduced to his essential part, a human calculator in the case of our mathematician. And I genuinely believe that he would thank me if he could. This is all STEMfags want to be, this is all they're really capable of being.

Give them all to me and with an ice cream scoop I'll fix all their problems. They won't have to worry about any of the dastardly, irritating aspects of life, such as beauty, or religious hope, or virtue, or even sensuality (which will be merely sense-data once I'm done with my scoop).

You really do have to understand, noble reader, that this isn't even in the slightest a cruel thing to do. It's removing from them those things which would do nothing but bother and irritate them till the end of their days. They don't want these things which are so valuable to you and I, noble reader. In fact, their every utterance is a plea to the universe to "reduce" and "eliminate" and simplify and I, and my trusted associates at the clinic, with our scoops would do nothing more than give them that freedom from unnecessaries that they so desire.

It's a perfect solution, which frees us from having to listen to their opinions on things outside of objectively measurable phenomena pertaining to their field and their field alone, and it frees them from the distractions, such as moral intuitions and human consciousness, which they are so disturbed by that they need to deny the very existence of these things.

Just picture it, thousands upon thousands of STEMfags walking out the clinic back towards their test tubes or whatever they do. Imagine the grotesque rictus smiles on their chinless anglo faces. "I'm finally free", they would think, were they not indeed finally free from that thing which they felt most keenly to be a burden on them, qualia, human consciousness, and all the beauty, passion, love, emotion, all the duty, the sense of virtues, the religious hunger, the ups and downs and bends and curves of being *human*, all that aesthetic, moral, spiritual... noise, which plagued them like tinnitus until my act of kindness.

To do anything else, would be utterly inhumane.

>>11501184
Fr Robert J Spitzer (S.J.) is all over this subject.

https://youtu.be/Jj8qUx9Vzns?t=1433

>>11500900
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_philosophy

This should help you get over the hump a bit^^^

Basically, substance metaphysics have these discrete separate units of stuff that retain eternally their qualities, yet in process metaphysics the only thing that is eternal is reality as a format, and even that can be a supposition.
You see in Maffie's book, he lists things like inamic pairs, and when you see these lists of opposing forces you want to say they are eternal substances like in Platonism.
However I think the way it is most clear is to consider them Observed Behavioral Patterns, which have the pairing structure to indicate how they fluctuate, often quite stably.
They however are constitutionally one thing, and always are in motion.
I can see where also Platonist monism might further confuse the situation, but the thing to remember is that Process is Doing and Substance is Resting, if that makes sense.
In substance ontology we can say that there are five elements that mix to create the world but return to the original state when separated.
In process you simply stay with the activity, all the substances are thus in themselves actions that never rest, its not kinds of things but modes of action.

>>11500951
>>11500981
Antimatter is just repackaged Luminiferous Aether

>>11501188
That's right. Keep thinking that you're some kind of a special snowflake while you consume our propaganda to buy even more stuff just so that we can have slightly more satisfying hedonistic life.

Thanks morons.

>>11501146
This. Anything else is delusional.

>>11501188
I want to fuck this post

>>11501188
A mathematician without a sense of aesthetics is a bad mathematician.

But can you please remove the part of my brain which makes me post on 4chan? No need to care about the parts for social relationships or Intimacy, they are already gone.

You have 5(five) seconds to prove anything exists. Go.

>>11501300
*vulcan nerve pinch*

did you feel that? I'm real bitch.

>>11501300
Cogito, ergo sum.

>>11498816
Define "exists".

>>11501260
You really deeply wish you could just cut that part out, but it's like Samson's Hair.
The thing that makes you feel the most vulnerable is always the source of your real strength.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.

A man who thinks he has mastered emotion and desire by suppressing and ignoring them is a man totally and completely controlled unconsciously by those emotions and desires.
Do we give in to them consciously? Only to the extent that we can fully become analytically aware of the nuance and functional core of those emotions, and of emotion itself.

Only when you can call up emotion of your choosing at will, and redirect emotion in progress toward more useful emotion, can you begin to be empowered

>>11501300
Existence of a phenom is only important in that it does or does not have a functional effect.
Only utility has value in a world in motion. Only practical effectiveness and potential praxis can be considered.

>>11501327
Well, I don't disagree with your post, but I am currently trying to study for an exam, but instead of that I post here.

>>11501343
That's the very example of it: your anxiety and boredom and a myriad of other emotions are playing into your alienation and desire for self-sabotage.

You just want to fuck off here because it suspends time perception and allows you to indulge your will to not do the thing you don't feel like doing.

>>11501353
>That's the very example of it: your anxiety and boredom and a myriad of other emotions are playing into your alienation and desire for self-sabotage.
I would say that my anxiety and the fear of failure is the only thing which is keeping me at least somewhat on track. (although I just "studied" for 38 seconds before coming back here and posting)

>You just want to fuck off here because it suspends time perception and allows you to indulge your will to not do the thing you don't feel like doing.
Of course.

>>11501367
See, now you are becoming conscious of some of the emotions, accepted some and attempted to redirect, and now have accepted that the part of you that wants to post here is not the discrete object you thought it was- what you first visualized an actor, a piece of brain that does a task "wanting to post", is actually a complex of compounding personal errors that have created a barely functional situation of cacaphonic distraction.

>>11501203
Process has Form too. The concept of a World Soul cycling through generation and decay as a process can be accommodated within Platonic descriptions of the material world existing in time. The form of the processes would exist in a seperate eternal noetic realm and inhere/participate in the processes as they actualise in the material world.

Platonism can be process-morphe as much as hylo/substance-morphe.

>>11501377
Granted , that is true. I am now 18 minutes into trying to study and have barely done so for more then a few minutes.

Exists is a funny word

>>11501205
>Luminiferous Aether
No that's would be Dark Energy, which is a seperate thing; related to the rest energy of space, perhaps a scalar field, perhaps a constant. Perhaps going to accelerate and tear the universe apart by expanding space faster than the speed of light so that no particle can interact with another particle: a Big Rip.

Everything that exists seems to be derived in some way from matter. Although often the transformations and abstractions away from matter are extreme and iterative.

To say that the non physical does not exist seems too focused on the semantic and impractical

>>11501300
This post only makes sense if you believe time and proof exist. Without this post existing there is no challenge and therefore nothing I must prove.

>>11499999
Checked

>>11499999
WITNESSED

Serious question I'd like to ask the mob: When and why did /lit/ become infested with all these theistic knuckledraggers. I stopped posting here for a few months and the culture has completely changed.

>>11501300

>>11501450
people are starting to shed the banality of 2000s internet atheist-nihilism and engage with inner experience and the question of being more authentically

>>11501467
Atheism and nihilism are orthogonal though. The rejection of reason because you don't like the end picture is absurd.

>>11501450
Because the materialists grew up and realized that indulging retards' fantasies for their own self material gains is better than trying to reason with these innately unreasonable people.

>>11501467
kill your self,
your earned it, I usually write only kys.

>>11501450
Dostoevsky has obliterated your filth.

>>11501481
>atheism and nihilism are orthogonal though
Absolutely not
>the rejection of reason because you don’t like the end picture is absurd
It’s not the rejection of reason though. Cookie-cutter atheism is a dead end of meaning. People on this board are getting older, they’ve been wallowing in atheism and nihilism for years. Stuck at the limits of normal experience. Shit is boring. Eventually you have to start conceiving of what is possible rather than wallowing in what is easily apparent. Knowledge and understanding that is easily gained is easy in-itself and leads to nothing.

>>11499999
checked and based

>>11501494
I fucked your mom and came in her ass. You earned it, I usually only bust on her face.

>>11501496
The brothers Karamazov chapter 35 is probably one of the better representations of the problem of evil, so I don't see where you are coming from.

>>11499999
CHECKED

recommend me a book to understand the significance of the enlightenment

>>11501450
Theistic knuckledraggers here are, for the most part, pol anglonigger rejects.

>>11501501
I'm bored, therefor better go looking for god? What a weird way to live oyur life.

>>11501467
>and engage with inner experience and the question of being more authentically

Fucking Cringe at this. Where do these people spawn?

>>11501501
So Godshit works like television and middle age?

>>11501512
I’m not even talking about god dummy. I’m talking about Bataille’s concept of inner experience. I’m talking about limit-experience. The sleep of reason produces monsters etc...

>>11501520
Yeah pretty much.

>>11501512
Yeah why would existential angst cause a search for the grounding of being?

>>11501514
t. inauthentic dasein

ITT:

the saviours of german idealism. blessed be ye

>>11501450
It just comes in waves, reactions to reactions. Eventually everyone will be all ‘god this and god that, go to church bla bla bla’ and then it won’t be cool and edgy. Then of course everyone will revert back to being fedora-tippers and so on and so on.

>>11501568
We WILL raise thule

Which Plato dialogues should I read to understand his thought and get to the neoplatonists? I'm going in order and currently am reading Cratilus or whatever the one after Phaedo its called in English.

THE MEME REALMS ARE THE REALEST REALITY.
Memes are the building blocks of ideas.
All life as we know it is embodied genetic information.
All life is memes so real that they're embodied.

>>11501599
The world as memes and representation...I like it

>>11501599
Imagine if people built a machine that created an omnipotent omniscient God.
And then the God said that it caused the people to build the machine from outside reality.

Did people make the God or did the God make itself?

And suppose the God, upon its manifestation, significantly altered reality, changing the past and future and fundamental laws of nature.

From that perspective, what's more real, the idea of the God before its creation, or the state of the universe at the time before the God's "birth"

>>11501203
Thanks for the very helpful post, anon. You're alright.

>>11501609
I got dubs on it too, which is nice because i can allow that as evidence in favor of my theory

>>11501650
You know there are physicists who assert that the fundamental property of the universe isn’t matter but really information. It almost sounds like positivists stumbling into idealism and forms. For instance if you destroy an object, you can analyse the remains and deduce from how it was destroyed, what it would have been like before it was destroyed. Some theoretical physicists think this is because information might be a tangible property inherent to the universe. This also ties in with theories of a holographic universe, once again it was physicists who put out the idea recently that our universe is inherently two dimensional but projected like a hologram. Since a meme is just transmitted information perhaps our material universe is just the projection of pure information. The internet is just our own pocket dimension inside a much more vast pocket dimension controlled by something else?

>>11499999
Based quints explaining the truth to the plebs

>>11501681
It's helpful to point out that science often progresses by using the current state of engineering as a starting point. Just as the Carnot cycle in physics was discovered by investigating the behavior of steam engines so is lots of insights being derived in physics by reevaluating it in terms of information processing.
Thermodynamics in particular is one area they've made significant headway using this approach including the modeling of entropy.
But that still leaves open the ontological question about whether information is a fundamental property of mass or any other physical category. From the point of view of logic it is impossible to the model apart from the thing it represents so i'm not confident that the universe is "a program" of any sort .
One way of looking at Plato's forms is that they are a forerunenr precursor concept of modern software programs.

>>11502393
> it is impossible to *tell the model apart from the thing it represents
typo

>>11501681
This is a terribly embarrassing post.

>>11501188
Yeah, I'll take a number three with large fries.

>>11501568
non-dualism >>> German idealism

>>11499999
these are the types of gets that the highest IQ board on 4chan gets