/lit/ - Literature

>>11418813
I assume Weinstein has written something. Maps of Meaning is interesting. Everyone else just lol

>>11418813
Where's John Green?

>>11418876
wearing pajamas, crying into his soeebean milk at home

>>11418813
all the really important stuff is on blogs

>>11418839
What Peterson posits in MoM is incredible. It's definitely going to be remembered as the continuation of depth psychology applied to the modern world. It is an absolutely remarkable inquisition into the mind.

>>11418897
Care to share which blogs? Are you speaking of unqualified reservations?

>>11418897

>>11418915
ur is garbage

>all those kikes
*snap*

>>11418922
im sure you were thinking some deepass thoughts in 2007

>>11418813
What are you covering there, Harris?

>>11418915
I see. What blogs do you recommend I check out? I am a firm believer in what you are saying, blogs certainly carry a format to facilitate deep intellectual thought.

>>11418913

>>11418922
Whoops. Meant for this comment (>>11418913) to be addressed to you.

>>11418922
Jesus Christ. I meant this comment (>>11418986) is for you.

>>11418813
Weed dessert cook books.

>>11418813
Can't believe you guys idolize a guy who drinks fucking rosé

>>11418915
>http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2013/05/letter-from-man-in-boston-to-nra.html
Be amazed.

>>11419028
That's water, as you can tell, because all the wine is in wine glasses (and dark red), and the water goblets contain water (and are tinted slightly pink by the lighting), you cumgoblin.

Not meming but theres a severe lack of intellectual diversity there. Dont they pretty much agree on everything besides meme shit like free will?

Can you fellows imagine the stench coming from the table? It must be an ochre, rancid smell not too far away from graveyeard dirt or landfill juice. You look at their faces, you see nothing behind their eyes. They stare blankly into the camera and, all of a sudden:
*snap*
They go straight into your cringe compilation. Another addition to your collection.

>>11419072
Yeah, though I think some have their own stuff like Ben Shapiro's zionism and Dave Rubins's hatred of the post office.

>>11419072
All of these guys belong to the establishment's new fake right movement, which is being put up as a front to keep more people from bleeding into the alt right and becoming aware of the jewish problem. There is nothing edgy about these jews and shabbos goyim, they are being used by the jewish establishment to control the Overton window because a lot of people are beginning to realize how big of a problem these jews are.

>>11419054
Pretty defensive there, bud

>>11419072
Shapiro holds in his more conservative ideals around them because he is afraid of getting beat up

who the fuck is that guy with the ridiculous wig next to peterson? he needs to step his viral marketing game up

>>11418913
What is Peterson trying to accomplish in MoM? Seriously curious

>>11418913
>MoM

If you're looking for JBP set to fiction...

>>11418876
Taking the photo. Nick Land was in the washroom and Zizek overdosed on sugar

>>11418813
calling these guys the intellectual dark web is ridiculous.

>>11418813

Once that fresh adrenochrome hit, those guys would be berrying their Jewish penises inside Rogans pozzed prolapse

>>11419269
I thought this said garden of chads for a minute

>>11419188
probably the smartest one of all of them

>>11419119
*snap*

Thermidor and Social Matter hate all of these guys.

>>11419577
chances are that any of these guys know what either of those publications are? shapiro maybe.

>>11419600
Ross Douthat knows about both of those sites and I would genuinely rather spend an hour with him than with any of the people in OP's pic.

>>11419072
Sam Harris is an atheist, while Shapiro is an orthodox Jew, though coincidentally they nevertheless agree on most issues, foremost Islam and Israel.

>>11419609
anyone who writes for the nytimes is a fuckin tool, the only guy that wasnt a tard was that old black geezer that got retired and replaced with that young smug gay black race baiter, wtf was his name? herbert or something

>>11419072
>heres a severe lack of intellectual diversity there
uhhh
>gay married leftist
>conservative orthodox jew
>materialist atheist
>Jungian psycho-analytic
>dyslexic poly-retarded leftist jew
>normie former comedian and wrestling commentator
But diversity means skin color in your eyes.

>>11419130
Can you blame him, though? Rogan probably gives him flashbacks of getting his shit kicked around in highschool.

>>11419676
the head of diversity for apple got fired for saying the exact same thing

>>11419682
>implying he didn't go to some super expensive private jewish school

did u think the chosen people go to public pleb school? ha

>>11419242
He designed an analysis on how we operate in the world as individuals. It's pretty much a continuation of Jungian mysticism, but he applied it to narratives within the mind. He has created a framework for how human behavior operates on a psychological basis applying neuroscience and psychoanalysis. You'd think lit would appreciate such a philosophical approach to science, but I suppose his over representation in discussion can diminish any merit he brings to the table.

Also, his assertion that dominance hierarchies are inevitable when operating within a system of values is also pretty profound. He talks about it so God damn much because it is never contemplated. It will be one of his points on his wiki page 10 years from now for sure.

I am also pretty sure he is racist (or has severe cognitive dissonance) to a certain extent but will never admit it. All of his reasoning regarding sexual dimorphism/endorsing IQ can be extended to matters of racism and the achievement gap (Especially the argument that outliers will almost always be represented by the group who is shifted in the direction of that outlier. But it's all valid reasoning and needs to be addressed. I have also heard him say in an interview that there's no reason that "evolution stops at the neck".

What people do not give him credit for is his incredible ability to debate and argue for a nuance. Never before have I seen someone who is so commonly strawmanned. He is also tremendously skilled in arguing himself out of a corner. It makes me actually laugh out loud hearing him find (what he would call a middle path) between two extremes in an argument. Even when you think you're in the middle already!

4chan, whole acknowledging his over representation on the medium, overlooks his strengths and fixates on his weaknesses.

That being said, I do not fully endorse him, I think he is a little deceptive, and he plays on the idea that you cannot prove his intent.

>>11419732
Thanks. This actually sounds pretty interesting. Maybe someday I’ll give it a read. It does irk me with how mendacious the left is at misrepresenting him. Anyhow, I also agree with you about your point of the poor reception here being because of how utterly famous he’s gotten. I suspect there would be more sympathy for his work if that weren’t the case.

>>11419119
Its an intriguing conspiracy but then why the constant hit pieces?

>>11419952
As he said, Overton window. They're portrayed as "radicals" and as such they need to be opposed by the mainstream ideology. Anything that's further away from the norm (say, ethno-nationalism or communism) is labeled "unthinkable" and doesn't even enter in the window of discourse.

>>11419952
There's no conspiracy, it's quite obvious to people who follow the alt right and know how jews operate. What hit pieces are you referring to though? HuffPo stuff, I assume?

>>11419732
although hardly some mortal sin, /lit/ doesn't liek Peterson because he goes off on tangents about philosophy that make it very fucking clear he has no clue what he is talking about. All of his mentions of derrida or heidegger or neitzsche are dumber than freshman year essays.

As a psychologist he has a really incorrect idea about statistics and the feasibility of quantitative analysis for psychology, but then again the entire field has that problem so he's not alone.

>What people do not give him credit for is his incredible ability to debate and argue for a nuance.
Debating is a game. It's the art of sophistry. Debates can be amusing and give some indication how clever a certain person is, but it's not actually something to seriously consider or value when it comes to underlying ideas.

an argument between these six would be priceless XD

>>11419696
Which gives us our moral of the day: hire minorities, but only if they agree with you

Jordan "Netflix TV shows are on the same level of complexity as great literature" Peterson

>>11420020
Derrida or Heidegger, sure. Nietzsche is such a topic of intentional obscurantism, on the internet and in general, that I'm almost inclined to favor Peterson's relatively simple interpretation.

As for your point on debate, Peterson would probably agree with you, see his comments on the 1st debate with Sam Harris and the reworking of their second round from a debate into a serious in-depth discussion (Peterson's labeled it as something resembling a solid PhD defense). I think pretty much all of them with the exception of maybe Shapiro are sick of the "OWN YOUR OPPONENT WHILE YOUR EXISTING FANBASE CHEERS" approach to constructive discourse.

>>11420054
Source on that? I know Peterson has stated that serial television has allowed for the establishment of characterization and theme that almost compares with literature, when speaking offhandedly about the rise in popularity of long-form entertainment/educational content online, but that's hardly equating Netflix with Literature.

>>11420061
>"But then Netflix came along, and HBO aswell, with bandwiths constrictions gone... and all of a sudden it turned out that no no, we can handle 40 hour complex multilayered narratives where the characters shift, where the complexities start to reach the same complexities as great literature, and there is a massive market for it"
Beyond dumb statement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xc7DN-noAc&t=430s at 7:09

>>11420061
>Peterson has stated that serial television has allowed for the establishment of characterization and theme that almost compares with literature
But that's just plain wrong and absurd.
Is a book automatically better if it has two thousand pages? And there are longer films also, Tarr's Satantango is 7 and a half hours long, which also doesn't make it automatically the best storytelling the visual medium has ever seen.
And practically every single Netflix TV show is driven by producers first and foremost, it's barely an artistic medium at all. Put a standard Netflix viewer infront of an actual film and he will checking his phone in 5 minutes

Meanwhile on the Left:

UR GAY LOL!

A clown like Adorno summarizes your whole ideology and its only sociocultural vehicle is twitter.

>>11420077
>start to reach
Not the same as "equal". Peterson has also directly stated that people who read serious dense literature are a tiny niche, but a much broader audience consume long-form, relatively dense television media and decently comprehend it, which does point to an overall rise in the capacity of people generally to engage with their art (and the art to engage with the people). In other words, literature has been complex and niche, but film has only begun to become complex in the last few years and is mainstream.

>>11420082
It isn't the length alone that gives longer works a better shot at quality, you pederast. It's the expanded canvas on which to work the media. Imagine not being as retarded as you are for 10 seconds.

>>11420105
>but film has only begun to become complex in the last few years and is mainstream.
Another otherly dumb beyond ignorant statement.
You legitimately think any Netflix TV show is even comparable to a great film? You think a standard Netflix casual would be able the comprehend the complexity of a film like The Mirror or 2001? Like I said, they would shut it off in the first 5 minutes or so.

>It's the expanded canvas on which to work the media.
Not only do TV shows become more simple and structured with more seasons, they gradually stop using all filmmaking elements and usually the only thing that is left is the written narrative, characters and nothing else. The visual medium is barely used at all, cinematography becomes a structured back to back camerawork form instead of it being a storytelling element.
In no way at all are Netflix TV shows reaching the same level of complexity as film, let alone great literature,no Netflix TV show will ever be as praised as great films are. Fact.

>>11420116
>muh hierarchy of mediums
You're such a fucking sperg. Get help, seriously.
>2001 is good
Fucking pleb.

>>11420020
What is his incorrect idea about statistics? From what I know, the entire field of psychology's issue is not with statistics, it is with reproducibility. There is a specious argument for the overlap between the two.

As with the other anon, I agree with your point on debates and am saying that his navigation of debates and axioms is a demonstration of just how damn clever he can be sometimes.

>>11420116
Holy shit what is this autism? 2/3rds of this post is shit nobody else was even thinking of let alone talking about. Sit down and have a real heart to heart with your chromosomes, my guy.

>>11420126
I see you're out of any arguments at all. If you are still confused I can explain to you pretty clearly how television is objectively inferior to film as a form of a visual medium.

>>11418913
Peterson deposits in your MoM

>>11419123
he drinks rosé lmao get 'im

>>11418813
Weinstein can stop trying to cook stupid sounding terms that bare no resemblance to anything they should

>>11420165
At least I don't take my MoM's Peterson up my ass like you, you waste.

I actually used to watch the Joe Rogan podcast and was excited when those guys were guests. I thought I was fighting the evil SJW, the feminist soibois, the socialist postmodernists etc. by listening to those retards talk horse shit...

I'm so fucking glad I grew up and realised they were a bunch of pseudos (other than Rogan, he isn't a pseud - he's straight up dumb, and his testosterone replacement therapy seems to have induced early onset Alzheimer's) that appealed to the uneducated retards who think pic related is "deep" and it puts them above others for retweeting it.

The worst offender is Shapiro. Jesus Christ I've never seen someone who likes the smell of his own farts more than Shapiro. Fast-talking liar. Would probably have done well on Wall street or something, but instead he spends his time going to college campuses, "schooling" or "destroying" students 15 years younger than he is, then going home, posting the videos on YouTube and masturbating to himself.

>>11420373
>not one (1) single argument

>>11420423
Do we really need more worthless opinions on a topic that's been done to death? If you want arguments, there's about a million articles and videos and posts all over the internet. I'm just posting my personal experience. Cry more.

>>11419732
>He talks about it so God damn much because it is never contemplated.
The inescapability of hierarchy is well recognized by a lot of people. It goes beyond dominance hierarchies, it is essentially metaphysical.

not that i have anything against Peterson ive never read or listened to any of his stuff so i have no opinion.

>>11420373
Why did you invest so much personally in this that you feel betrayed? I just listen to some of it and that's about it. I dont dress up as a lobster and go door to door asking of they have heard the word of Lord Peterson, Shapiro and Harris.

>>11418813
the best goyim have to offer

>>11420373
Not gonna lie, former Peterson supporter here. This is fucking hilarious watching Professor Kermit crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this guy rescue the father from the underworld.

>>11420373
>I actually used to watch the Joe Rogan podcast
I'm probably not supposed to judge people for their past, but I just can't imagine anyone with a brain ever doing that.
I also have a low opinion on anyone that appears on that show, it's basically in the same tier as using Twitter.

That said, Jordan Peterson, for all his faults, still has some interesting things to say.

>>11420513
Probably emotional manipulation. Peterson et al. made sense to me, and they appealed to my emotions. Then, through confirmation bias and blindly accepting everything they said as fact, I basically became a pawn in their game. All groups and their leaders are guilty of this, which I think is why there's an identity politics wars going on right now. They're not arguing about economics or any of that shit, it's basically two groups of people who are both brainwashed with emotive rhetoric.

>>11420558
Is that Petersons fault that you got so emotionaly invested in it?
>Then, through confirmation bias and blindly accepting everything they said as fact,
Why, even though I generally like Peterson, I usually take everything he says with a large grain of salt unless he can actually point to papers proving what he say, and even then there's probably a paper that run counter to that one again anyway.

Peterson is 1 of plenty I derive from to build and develop my world view, Peterson isnt my whole world view.
How you managed that is beyond me.

>>11420467
idiot

>>11418813
>intellectual dark web

Such an obvious media psyop. But because an idiot like Joe Rogan mentions it on his podcast, people end up believing that it's a real thing.

Antifragile.

>>11420618
there is a sort of 'intellectual dark web' in the literal sense of a web of content that no well known media source will touch. It's more composed of extreme racism and antisemitism than Jordan Peterson though, who has had a shitload of press coverage.

The Last Supper

;)

screen cap this

>>11420099
>adorno
>clown

Have you even read Adorno or are you just taking marching orders?

>>11420638
>It's more composed of extreme racism and antisemitism
It's composed of people who are aware that jews use those fake words to attack whites who express in-group preference and cover up with extreme chutzpah their negative influence in our societies. Sit on the sidelines for a while or get back to r*ddit if you have still yet to realize that and think you can use those words unironically without getting laughed the fuck out of here.

>>11420597
>unless he can actually point to papers proving what he say
His trick is that he starts off backing up things he says with science and history. His clinical psychology background means he can talk about some real life issues in a rigorous manner. That's what sucked me in. After that, I went on autopilot mode and just took everything in without assessing it properly.

>How you managed that is beyond me.
Like I said, after a while, I went into autopilot mode, since I trusted him. What's beyond me is how somehow this is extraordinary to you... it's a classic case of cult of personality - millions of people are indoctrinated every day like this, and most don't ever get out of it. You have 40 year olds still blindly following demagogues from their teenage years.

My biggest lesson learned from all this is that other people might also be going through a phase if they have fallen pray to biases and aligned themselves with some silly cause. It doesn't mean they're idiots. I'm only 20 and I'm glad I've gone through my phase. From now on I'll be extra cautiou.

>>11420618
>>11420638
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr0OX6ai4Qw

>>11420638
>It's more composed of extreme racism and antisemitism than Jordan Peterson though,
They are smaller and not that prolific, but if you add them all together, they reach a large amount of people. I've stumbled across them on youtube. They present their arguments in a very straight manner, and suddenly 8 minutes in to their vid essay, in comes the anti semitism, racism, superiority of the white race etc. They arent shouting "death to all niggers and kikes" anymore, they sneak in via presenting themselves as docile and housebroken.

I dont even know if they are the alt right since they seem alot more like the old far right than the Yannapolis "lol, I said black men stand for 50% of violent crimes for the lulz, keks be had" alt right.

And I dont think Peterson has ever touched on semitism and race so I dont see why anyone can claim that he is remotly a racist and/or anti semite.

>>11419676
those titles are meaningless. They all agree on muh free markets, israel is good and islam is bad.

I purposefully said INTELLECTUAL diversity but again you go for skin colour like the identitarian you are.

>>11420661
i really don't care if you laugh at me. I've been reading stuff about the JQ for years and i still dont give a shit about the white race, because it's full of complete faggots. I dont have to like retards like you just because Jews are slimy

>>11420671
>I dont think Peterson has ever touched on semitism
Peterson is a philosemite who barks at MacDonald and others when the kikes tell him to.

>>11420687
>i still dont give a shit about the white race
Then you shouldn't be posting on a board celebrating white literary culture.

>>11420688
aha, no wonder the alt right doesnt like him.

>>11420688
Well duh, hes a christcuck that worships a jew on a stick

>>11420694
ill do whatever the fuck i please, and the literary culture of most of the authors lit praises is aristocratic, it has fuck all to do with the hordes of subhuman whites

>>11420671
>They arent shouting "death to all niggers and kikes" anymore, they sneak in via presenting themselves as docile and housebroken.

"Presenting themselves". "Sneak it in".

Have you ever considered that what they're talking about is, quite simply, the truth?

>>11420663
>it's a classic case of cult of personality - millions of people are indoctrinated every day like this, and most don't ever get out of it. You have 40 year olds still blindly following demagogues from their teenage years.

My problem here is that I dont think Peterson ever intended it to be so. Hey, even Björk had crazy stalkers and fans, but that doesnt mean she intended people to be so obsessed about her that they would blow their own head off on camera.

>>11420695
Peterson also comes off very weak on the topic of European/white identity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyoTGmhczcY

He's either purposely lying/deceiving or he's a bit confused about these issues.
He has to realize that his boomer American individualism won't magically solve everything.

>>11420700
You need to leave now. This is not your culture, mud person. Hit the exit.

>>11420712
He obviously specifically catered his message to mentally unstable losers and incels. 12 rules for life is not for adults.

>>11420718
He doesn't realize that, unfortunately, though I think he knows more than he lets on. People have dug up some of his connections to jews and postulated that the bank he makes with this schtick is not worth the trouble. Remember: "I can't do it!"

>>11420706
Yeah I have, but if the end result is race wars, ethnocentricity and rampant nationalism, then I dont consider it ideas worth pursuing, and that is disregarding all the counter arguments.

I have pride in my own culture and history, but I dont see what the white race got to do with any of it as the "White Race" is anything from albino scandinavian to rather arab looking italian.

Both Mike Cernovich and Jordan Peterson devoted whole chapters of their books to correcting the Virgin Walk.

Why is this such a massive problem now?

>>11420721
im blond and blue eyed, find a different insult you resentful pleb

>>11419732
Sounds interesting, audiobook just got released as well, thanks for this.

>>11418922
ur won faggot welcome to hell

>>11420735
>I have pride in my own culture and history, but I dont see what the white race got to do with any of it
First off, stop writing like a nigger. Second, culture and history stems from *shock* your race, faggot. Those things are products of it.

>>11420749
>culture and history stems from *shock* your race
Moron

>>11419732
Peterson entered the zeitgeist due to his ability to speak, he's a captivating lecturer, and the criticism that he has low-resolution views on some of the things he speaks about is true enough (but nobody who tackles a really broad range of subjects is going to avoid that, feel free to try). What surprised me about Maps of Meaning is he's probably as good a writer as he is a speaker, and there's less of the sometimes shallow takes in the book, reading it should be the canonical Peterson rather than listening to his lectures/12 rules.

>>11420757
You certainly are, buddy, yes.

>>11420749
>First off, stop writing like a nigger.
You first.

>Second, culture and history stems from *shock* your race, faggot. Those things are products of it.
If you faggots stop waving Tors hammer around I'd be happy to oblige, but I got to chuckle when I see people who claim scandinavian and Viking ancestry when their ancestry is mostly central european and their only claim to that culture is that it falls under the umbrella term "The White Race." or "European Culture."

>>11420737
Because the number of males who feel low status, have fucked up hormones, have zero awareness of themselves as physical beings and not just virtual, has grown over the past little while. The reasons for why this is are totally speculative but the phenomenon is obvious

>>11420735
>"White Race" is anything from albino scandinavian to rather arab looking italian.

Greater or lesser descent from the Indo-Europeans is what that amounts to. And the Greeks and Romans who made their civilization what it was were descended from them.

>>11419732
>He is also tremendously skilled in arguing himself out of a corner.
the repetition of "that's not what I meant!" and "I didn't say that!" isn't some tremendous skill, all it takes is a lack of shame

>>11420770
Perhaps you should try to accept that you are either not very intelligent, or, I'd guess, 14 years old and thus lacking in any clue wrt what you're talking about. Whites are under attack by jews in every white country, quit acting like a stubborn retard.

>>11420770
>>11420749
The white race is the ideological race par excellence, if you want to herd them together it has to be through common beliefs not through kinship, they don't give a fuck about kinship. There's a reason Nazism was a "racial ideology" and its the same reason whignats, who argue that caring for your race is natural, strike us as the most unnatural and forced white people around. If the goal is to get all white people on the same page and you choose to ignore this, you'll just lose

lol just posted this in another thread, but I'm reading Explaining Postmodernism rn. Still early on in the book, but it's really interesting so far. Recommend it if you want to understand the radical left ideology from a philosophical perspective. Really puts their actions/beliefs into perspective.

>>11420765
You don’t know what culture, history, or race are bub. Neither culture nor history are rooted in race. There was no Roman race, for instance, and faggots like yourself and Richard Spencer pretend that you are their descendants and lay claim to their former empire for the sole reason that they openly practiced sodomy of children. Even in 2016, when you “made history” with Trump, you owe it to the mutts in this picture.

>>11420782
>Perhaps you should try to accept that you are either not very intelligent,
>Whites are under attack by jews in every white country, quit acting like a stubborn retard.

>>11420787
Nah, and there's far too much speculation in that theory. White people do have a decreased tribal instinct compared to others due to evolutionary circumstances, but that can be activated and wielded with ease once a white man comes to understand that jews are racially attacking him and his people. An ideology can be built around that as well.

>>11420812
>An ideology can be built around that as well.

I dearly hope you're not a Wodinist.

>>11420789
Great book. Have you read the Culture of Critique, BTW?

>>11420797
Everything is rooted in and stems from race. It's not up for debate by bitter mongrels and nonwhites.

If youre pale youre white. Shitskins dont give a fuck what you nitpick about lmao. This is why cumskins are going to lose. We deserve it tbqh

>>11420820
No. I'm a whateverist as long as it helps wake white people up and gets these jews out of the west.

>>11420787
But why would you trust "the white race" to stay unified as "the white race"?
Europeans has been fighting more with themselves than any other content or ethnic group.
And if one follow that train of thought down the line, the search for a common enemy will result in Europe having no enemies left since they've killed them all and then we're stuck fighting ourself untill we start fighting the village next over for not being "us".

>>11420825
No I haven't. I don't really care about Jews as a collective. Also, I've heard his books were lacking in scientific rigor anyways.

>>11420846
>Europeans has been fighting more with themselves than any other content or ethnic group.

>what is medieval China
>what is Africa at any point anywhere