/lit/ - Literature

Kaczynski is the only relevant thinker of the last 50 years. Anyone dodging the technological question is a coward. What good does theory bring if it ignores the basic values and fundaments of our society?How is knowing how power operates or whether or not equality is something to strive for important when the basis for life - AIR, WATER, WEATHER etc.. and 'social' aspects such as human decency - is at stake? The future is bleak. It's either a full blown environmental cataclysm, nuclear warfare, humans gets replaced by machines, humans get re-engineered to fit in the ever complexifying, ever dehumanizing system... You get the gist.

Or it's all of this. Or it's something completely unpredictable, which is how technology works. We make discoveries, and we spend the next hundreds of years trying to fix the problems caused by whichever new technology appeared.

Technology causes a water drought. So we create more technology to solve it (In reality, no one can plan a discovery. If we're lucky we discover something to buy us a few more years) But then the newer technology causes more problems that requires more technology to solve.

It's a never ending race.

Kaczynski's works don't stop with ISaiF, his other books are incredibly insightful too.

>>11407452
This. It's a shame he was a terrorist. Guy could have probably made a small career out of his writings if he went the academic route.

>>11407382
is that a 30 year old boomer?

>>11407687
just shop a monster drink in

>>11407382
Not revolutionary like Goonan.

>>11407697
This. Goonan is obviously influenced by Ted though.

>>11407452
Most thinkers are too cowardly, too wired into the system, to really think about the TQ.

>>11407697
>>11407867
Then maybe you guys will tell me who goonan is this time? and link to a pdf of his book

>>11407958

Seems to be this woman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Ann_Goonan

>>11407452

Thats good and all, but I still find it dumb that he chose to bomb PEOPLE. Why not target institutions and infrastructures with zero casualties?

>>11407382
>mentally ill faggot
>worth in his thoughts
HAHAHAHA

I think Ted is unironically what Spengler was taking about as the "New Caesar" in "Decline Of The West. It makes too much sense to me.

Suffering through the Murray Experiment probably didn't help.

Would you Kaczynski fags fuck off already?

>>11407697
I think Goonan is better than Ted.

>>11407958
http://thefoundationpress.com/fulltext.html

There you go!

>>11408150
Not him but thank you.

That's not Ted

>>11408034
>>mentally ill faggot
tons of psychiatrists have said he showed no symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia and don't understand how the diagnosis was reached and ted himself said the government would use mental illness to attack his work

>>11408086

So is UNAposting a thing? I had no idea

Has Ted access to the internet?

>>11408208
you need to read goonan's book.

>>11407666
He would be trapped in obscurity today if he hadn't resorted to terrorism, as yet another faceless academic whose works are only discussed by his fellows and only ever in theory. His "martyrdom" was the best thing for the dissemination of his ideas as it shoved them into the mainstream, within the reach of the modern peasant who might be convinced to risk it all, unlike the academics.

>>11408525
actions speak louder than words

>>11408019
People care more about people than buildings.

>When you need to bomb people before they read your shit

>>11408645
oh that makes it okay lol

>>11407382
If he came up with his ideas in this age of the internet he could have easily gotten ISaiF published and memed without murdering people. Kinda ironic.

>>11408662
It just answers your question, it doesn't condone it. Why would he target people and not just the institutions? Because it would get him far more publicity. Arson is less interesting than murder.

>>11409263
so he's a psychopath, got it.

>>11409275
him being a psychopath does not undermine the validity of his ideas. Nobody's advocating that we follow him in sending bombs out.

>>11409279
It kind of does in this case. Guy was a nut.

>>11409282
that's not a specific argument against his ideas
You can definitely attack his position on blowing people up that easily, but the rest of his ideas aren't that simple to dislodge.

HE
*torrents mofos porn*
WAS
*retweets bronze age pervert*
RIGHT
*watches latest hydewars on mobile*
ABOUT
*checks tinder for new profiles*
EVERYTHING

>>11408625
you can't diagnose schizophrenia from actions alone
paranoia, maybe

>>11409290
yes they are. He hated technology because he was autistic (look it up).

>>11409321
He was right about your mom, maybe.

>>11409326
having an a priori position doesn't necessarily invalidate all arguments

>>11409337
and anything else he had to say was not new, sorry.

>>11408019
Because if he lowered the stakes in real life to where everything was safe he would have to lower the stakes in his thinking to where everything was safe.

>>11409347
ergo, his ideology necessitated he kill people and therefore it is psychotic.

>>11409347
>ergo, his ideology necessitated he kill people
Sure
>and therefore it is psychotic
The label adds nothing

>>11409365
meant for >>11409360

>>11409365
Sure, if you're a psycho perhaps.

>>11407666
>small career
>small
yep. Nobody would've give half a fart to his pleb-tier articulation of Luddism.
My reaction to the manifest was that, even though I sympathize with the sentiment, that dude had never bothered to actually read anything in the humanities at all. He walked out of his math department - where he'd spend his whole fucking life - straight into he woods thinking he was literally the only one who had the sensitivity to realize modernity is garbage.

http://en.virtualpopstar.com/vote/clandestine/

>>11409321
>socialism head
>capitalism head
when we all go live naked in the woods, the decisions about how to produce and distribute things will either be made collectively or by individuals operating under the idea of private property. There is no third way.

>>11409405
Be nice, he has Autism and was in MKULTRA

>>11409405
i mean. only like 2 other writers were around ted's ballpark in his time

Yes it’s a shame he had to be a serial murderer though. Kind of undermines the validity of his ideas

>>11407452
have you read nick land? some of his earlier work pairs well with ted's. except he is significantly more pessimistic

>>11409710
>in his time
the whole thing with written language is that the time of writing is irrelevant.

>>11409710
stop being stupid. a work is shaped by the time it is written in.

>>11409743
>>11409756

>>11407452
>Kaczynski is the only relevant thinker of the last 50 years.
That's a funny way of spelling Jacques Ellul.

>>11409756
>>11409761
shaped? sure. but whether or not they have value is time-independent. Being recent doesn't lend it any extra value.

>>11409768
Stop shilling Ellul. You made me waste a few hours of my life on his trash.

>>11407382
yes because the environment is dying and we caused it and moderns are more mentally ill than their premodern counterparts its not even arguable his book should be a fucking truism now

>>11409774
what? are you just gonna double down on this out of some sort of pride? dont be an idiot. of course the most recent work is most relevant because it is made in the era we are living in, which makes it more valuable. as cogent as marx is as of now, people like lacan, debord,baudrillard, land, and kaczynski are all ultimately more valuable to us than marx is because of the time difference.

>>11409810
are you just gonna tripple down on this? It's a non-argument. The names you just listed wouldn't have been a thing were it not for Marx, except for Ted, who, like I said, never actually read anything in the humanities and is absolutely pedestrian in his observations.
Let's put it this way: Marx has been dead for 135 years. You think they're gonna be talking about nick fucking land 135 years after he's dead? You think anyone is going to be organizing political parties around his ideas? Or any of those guys? I love me some Debord, but I'm not stupid, he will forever remain a supporting role in the long story of Marxism. All of those guys, they're the robin to Marx's batman, it's that simple.

He should've read that Jordan Peterson book about the rules

>>11410113
should've spent his time at the home depot (or it's 90's equivilent) buying cleaning supplies for his room t b q h.

>>11410113
okay but let's do some shrooms first

>>11409794
Where else do you think Kaczynski got his ideas?

>>11410261
>tfwn find a time machine to take be back into the 1970's where I can fuck easy freespirited chicks, have tons of illegitimate kids b/c low prevalence of birthcontrol, visit Battersea power station back when it was actually a coal fired power plant, see Harlem when it was still nice and grimy, get a hooker in Times square, drive down lake shore drive at it's aesthetic prime, and visit Teddy when he was still a young man reading Ellul.

Why live?

>>11409338
>/v/
You have to go back.

>>11409321
If I smoke a cigarette while saying that smoking causes cancer, does my smoking somehow invalidate this fact?

>>11409419
>individuals operating under the idea of private property = capitalism

That's just absurd.

__________

Biographies
__________

>Adolf Hitler - Youth (Age 0 - 25)
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/86086584/

>Adolf Hitler - First World War (Age 25 - 29)
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/134340484/

>Adolf Hitler - Rise to Power (Age 29 - 43)
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/150760491/

>Joseph Goebbels
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/142878351

>Rudolf Hess
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/152757392/

>Ted Kaczynski
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/154963372/

>Timothy McVeigh
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/118541028/

>Anders Breivik
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/87875112/

>H.P. Lovecraft
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/141773539

>Vincent van Gogh
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/173716710/

>William Cottrell
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/30930679

>Adam Lanza
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/24985710/

>Christopher Thomas Knight
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/122023099/

>Christopher McCandless
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/122167113/

>Christopher Harper-Mercer
https://4archive.org/board/r9k/thread/31293613

>Bill Hicks
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/128627797/

>Dylann Roof
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/139008559/

__________

Books
__________

>Julius Evola - Ride The Tiger
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/147654247

__________

>>11410857
video games website

Ok, I've never read any of his stuff (or any stuff at all, I'm not well read) but tell me if how far of my own views he is.

I've been thinking for a long time that marxist have it wrong on their critic of capitalism as the root of every problem, and that it shapes the way they miss the issue of alternative solutions. They say the USSR isn't communist, and sure it wasn't, but why did it went that way instead of their millenarist wet dream? They say it because of the surrounding capitalist countries, but I think it has more to do with the fact that at a certain level of society sophistication (technological advancement, sociological progress, sheer demographics), it becomes impossible not to have a state, whose role is to manage society. To manage society efficiently at this level of sophistication you need to organize/compartmentalize it from the micro (the individual), and everyone is inherently treated less and less as a being and more like a statistic/marginal cost, both by the state and "the states" (corporations).
I think this is inherent to our degree of sophistication and that without going back on those technological, humanitarian, and demographical advancements, switching from an economic system to the other isn't going to take you out of the little box the state has put you in because that's just the most efficient way to deal with you and everyone else.
At the same time, I think that going back on this sophistication can't be done without enormous amount of suffering and destruction, and I would rather we continue to go in the way we are now (toward more sophistication), because at some point we may find a way to engineer ourself out of anomie. And if we don't, well, at least we've tried, After all I'd rather we die out trying to rise above our natural conditions than die after our race has went back to living like monkeys on this rock.

>>11411421
Edgy

>>11411437
How so.

teds solution is retarded because he's a total conservationist
nobody wants to go back to living like cavemen, we've already lived like cavemen and want to chase something new, the only exception is the occasional misanthrope like ted or linkola
making a clean break with all of civilization and murder of most of the populace is the same thing as genetically engineering humans into something more fit for whatever social system, it's just happiness for the ones that will be left, it's the pleasure machine that looks like an iron maiden from any position except the inside

>>11411131
I've read that Kaczynski biograohy before. It's really good, and it goes to show that - while papa ted had a point in his manifsto- it was personal issues that made him a terrorist.

>>11411509
And influenced his distaste for modern society aka autism.

>>11409419
Sure, but Capitalism and Socialism connote more than just those things due to historical context

>>11407452
I figured this was just gonna be another bait thread but damn, fpbp. Everyone always just assumes that technology is good and we've gotten to the point where we don't even notice it. But its effects, ESPECIALLY smartphones and social media, are destroying society.

>>11408622
>the modern peasant who might be convinced to risk it all
>aka anonymous 20-somethings on an online imageboard

>>11411469
Wrong. Returning to the old ways would be a natural progression for humankind. That millions would die is logically irrelevant. We should never have allowed our population to become so dependent on technology in the first place. Only the strong should survive anyhow.

>>11409321
>*retweets bronze age pervert*

Lel I love that guy. Had to stop following /pol/twit though because it just got to be too much to have all that taking up my attention.

>>11408041
I can see that Ted Kaczynski and Oswald Spengler writing about similar things, but Ted a new ceasar? Wut?

>>11411804
at least we can agree that you should be killed

>>11411796
I'll concede that most people on this website (including myself) are coddled by their own comfort and sense of safety, but it would be pessimistic and ignorant to believe that this is destined to always be the case. I'm sure there exists some realistic future factor that could drive all these anonymous young fellows into inciting some actual change.
The identity of the do-nothing imageboard poster is becoming a meme at this point. The people here actually have potential.

>>11412417
this is more unrealistic than the desires of occupy wall street

>>11411122
>>11411744
yeah, I'm employing the words in a more generalizing way. They're more useful this way. I'm all ears to suggestions of better terminology.

No. Anyone who listens to him is a retarded neo-Malthusian, neo-Luddite and should read a fucking history book.

Life was backbreaking misery for most people the last 250000 years, and only in the last 200 have we had a semblance of luxury, comfort and security.

The people who adore people like Kaczynski are anti-human nihilists who should start by taking out themselves if they hate humanity so much.

>>11409419
ancient people had no coherent idea of self and therefore no idea of property beyond transitory shit like "I'm holding this spear now and I'll fight you if you take it"

>>11412689
>Life was backbreaking misery for most people the last 250000 years
This is pure anti-history, ironic of you to tell people to pick up a history book when your scope of knowledge is limited entirely to Europe under Christendom, fucking laughable

>>11407452
>It's a never ending race.
prove this.

My view is that when we have technology in proportion to our wisdom, it is a good thing. The problem with the modern world is that technology outpaced the wisdom. We just have to catch up in that department. The knowledge-base for better ways of life already exists.

>>11407452
>It's a never ending race.
prove this.

My view is that when we have technology in proportion to our wisdom, it is a good thing. The problem with the modern world is that technology outpaced the wisdom. We just have to catch up in that department. The knowledge-base for better ways of life already exists.

>>11412695
Right. One of the main reasons hunter-gatherer societies were essentially socialist. Capitalism is a distortion of this more natural state.
But why are you bringing up ancient people again?

>>11412730
wasn't going back to an ancient state what previous anon meant by going back to living naked in the woods?

>>11412743
but that doesn't mean regressing in time. If the Kaczynski revolution happened and we got rid of all technology we would still have the knowledge of how life can be with technology. Our language would still be highly complex, which is a key point.

>>11412719
Not him but it's simply unsustainable
there's nothing wrong with technology, it's well documented our ancestors weren't blithering retards who knew nothing like most people seem to believe for some reason, surely the fucking ritual landscapes make this clear but that's beside the point, they utilised technology.
The way I see it in general terms technologies that allow us to do things are good, technologies that make things easier are bad, comfort leads to degeneration and what we have now, industrial technologies are in the latter group. If these technologies of comfort and production are required to gain access to technologies that allow us to do things then foregoing access to those technologies is more than worth what it would otherwise cause by recessing back to industry. This isn't a universal rule, it's a stupid way of putting it really, things like firearms are useful knowledge we have gained that can be produced in a non-industrial society along with suitable ammunition and aren't necessarily degenerative technology, but it's rather a general rule of where I see technology beginning to be degenerative.
The modern world is simply unsustainable, it's a matter of when it happens and how we continue post-civ not what we need to do to prevent cataclysm, we already chose cataclysm a long time ago.

>>11412697
>This is pure anti-history

No it's not faggot.

The "Noble savage only worked 2 hours a day and laid around fucking and had no property" meme was created by Marxists like Marija Gimbutas.

Nobody actually believes this is true, except of course, Communists, neo-Malthusian psychos like you and Ted Kaczynski.

>>11412779
hopefully the language of our children wouldn't though. 1st gen would probably be fucked

>>11412800
When did I mention property, they lived lives like most rural folk do now in places such as Belarus, simply without civilization and with hunter-gathering instead of agriculture.
Read Richard Pryor and any other archaeologist of the last century you underage retard.

>>11412824
lmao Francis Pryor not Richard excuse me

>>11412800
you're a fucking embarassment, that's all that can be said
>>11412824
agricultural society is vastly different from pre-historical hunter gathering society. The lives of agricultural societies was and is very hard since it is just a less developed version of our technological society. Not to get into memes but the agricultural revolution really was the forbidden fruit of the bible.

>>11412800
yeah stupid commies.
This is how the ancient world went down:
day 1: bob has some potatoes, and fred has oranges.
(why did they decide to specialize their production in this way? why don't they work together to ensure a good harvest of both crops? SHUT UP COMMIE)
day 2: bob wants oranges, fred wants potatoes. they need to trade, BUT HOWWW!?!?!?//1/!/1/1/!?!??!/1?
day3: the currency is invented, resolving all the problems of the human condition once and for all eternity.
day4: the US Federal Reserve is established and the prosperity dawned upon the earth.
Over the generations Bob's descendants made slightly inferior business decisions. This eventually culminated in Fred's dynasty buying out ll of Bob's Inc. operations. Bob's descents, for being worse at this game of coins and potatoes, now deserve to live as wage-slaves, or, in some cases, abject destitution. This is, self-evidently, The Way It Should Be, the Fullest Expression of Justice™.
~Fin~

>>11412837
and even vastly different from pre-historical agricultural society but yeah yeah I was just trying to explain it for that brainlet in any way I could.

>>11412800
Actually, Kaczynski himself rejects this theory nowadays.

>>11407382
>be broad-faced sarmatian ARYAN slayer
>be portrayed by narrow-faced nerdic subhuman
What television means by this?

>>11413078
He was polish.

>>11412695
Based bicameral mind
>>11412730
>socialist
Socialism implies an egalitarian ideal, they were anything but in all but the most edenic of clines, though they all seem to reject or have no concept of inherent human value or dignity.

>>11412441
Your "realism" is just disguised defeatism. What do you want to achieve by denouncing people's hopes as unrealistic without even an explanation why or an alternative solution? Being the most jaded of the assholes?

>>11413089
Poland is SARMATIAN and therefore ARYAN

>>11413092
egalitarianism is a matter of outcome. If the decisions are really being made collectively, each member of the collective will, if necessary, make the case for their own unfulfilled needs at the assembly. This is what I like to call "the visible hand of collectivism".
If you want to deprive someone of access to their necessities they're going to be right there at the assembly with you and you have to look them in the face as you do it.
By this mechanism (Real Human Connections©) collectivism — or socialism, or what have you — becomes a self-correcting system.

>>11408555
>UNAposting
Trips confirm it.

>>11413130
I believe empathy and mercy necessarily proceed from civilization and the diminishment of magico-religious perception following the shift to grain agriculture.

>>11413268
do you mean 'proceed' as in 'are caused by'?
a bold claim. I don't see how you could possibly prove it.

>>11409324
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. Considering the experiments he went through and how anti-system his ideas were, I'd be paranoid too in his shoes.

>>11413268
Sarsen stones were transported from what we now call North Wales to the Salisbury Plain using methods not the most efficient at the time nor the most effective routes, the implication is that such stones were paraded through different communities entirely removed from the tribes immediately surrounding the landscape where the stones were intended for use.
Bluestone axes native to Cumbria traveled as far as EAST ANGLIA, no warfare over such a distance would have occured.
This was in the Mesolithic. What do you think that tells you.

dude there's a fucking boomerbomber face hidden on the front of every monster energy ultra zero i just noticed it when i looked at one of the empties on my desk

>>11413490
Dumb zoomer

>>11413787
its weird man it looks like a swirl in the photo but irl on my desk it looks like a boomer with unabomber glasses on peeping out from behind the monster rip

the wierd thing about ultra energy tho is that its the diet version but it actually tastes better than the regular sugar version which u dont see happening very often

>>11408591
No but you can attempt to write him a letter and if he is able to read it, he might write back to you.

>>11413093
how am i defeatist? Don't tell me you think I actually believe in your luddite faggotry?

>>11414020
The argument wasn't whether you believed in it or not, it was whether you thought it was realistic or not.

>>11412800
>The "Noble savage only worked 2 hours a day and laid around fucking and had no property" meme was created by Marxists like Marija Gimbutas.

Do you have any evidence for this? Or rather, evidence that Marxists are wrong about this?

>>11407452
>le technology boogeyman
wow so enlightened!!1!

I heard about peak /lit/, but I always thought it was a myth

>>11409405
is that re-sentiment I detect arising from your inability to into basic math?

>>11412689
>and only in the last 200 have we had a semblance of luxury, comfort and security
But at what cost?

>>11409419
The third way is monarchy and it’s much more likely than either of your alternatives.

>>11409154
>Ted would be a household name if he self published on amazon like any random faggot

Why aren't you pen pals with Ted yet /lit/?

>>11414954
cuz i dont want to be an fbi watchlist (for anything other than tasteless shitposting and possible marxist agitation that is) just for the sake of having some kaczynskiana to sell on ebay when he finally croaks, i can come with better ways to get dough than that

>>11414954
Is this an honest-to-God thing I can do?

>>11414954
Absolutely fascinating. I wonder what other smart inmates I could theoretically write.

>>11414954
won't let me save repost plz

>>11408438
>that 30 year old bomber

>>11412689
>Life was backbreaking misery for most people the last 250000 years

"I know nothing about history or anthropology", the post

>>11413268
You're factually incorrect

>>11409360
Name literally a single successful ideology that hasn't necessitated killing people.

>>11412787
>it's well documented our ancestors weren't blithering retards who knew nothing like most people seem to believe for some reason

This seems to largely be the fault of pop culture. Reading almost anything by ancient people and it's pretty clear they were no idiots, but TV shows seems to paint them as people who were just naturally superstitious and hence primitive.

>>11415387
>pop culture
More like propaganda. If you wish to remake society in a progressive fashion, the first thing you have to do is ridicule and delegitimize anything in the old culture. The collective ignorance of historical people and ideas is by design.

>>11409321
>retweets bronze age pervert
>watches latest HydeWars
>checks Tinder for new profiles
Lol'd, I was that guy. Very accurate

>>11411786
I don't think it's destroying society as much as it's reframing it, changing its parameters. Technology and the information it brings about is here to stay, the question is how do we respond to it. Now more than ever we have to decide whether we want to live authentic experiences, but the question is whether or not social media is an authentic experience.

It's easy to be pessimistic about it, but society is gonna reorient itself around the information age. It just looks so ugly now because we are stuck in the middle of it, being the ones to wade the waters first.

>>11407452
It's like Heidegger, except without rigor. :)

>>11414954
I want to save this but i can't plz hlep

>>11407382
About as much as Manson or Bundy or Dahmer. Only he was pretentious too, so slightly less.

>>11415134
Thomas Silverstein (longest held prisoner in solitary confinement) is pretty smart and he gets letters all the time.

>>11415741
His thoughts were infinitely more valuable than yours buddy

His analyses are accurate, but there's nothing that can be done about it - at least not on a societal level.

There's no turning back the technology.

>>11415754
So why are you posting on a Mongolian Horsebreeding Bulletin Board instead of taking down industrial society?

>>11415764
I can agree with his analysis without agreeing with his recommendations.

>>11415769
So why don't you go live on a farm or in the woods somewhere?

I believe Kaczynski to be correct in his thoughts on technology(even though I am using a computer right now)but I would never go to his extremes.
How can you deny his ideals when technology allows people such as in this video to exist?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdupS0gRt0

It is dehumanizing, although there is most likely nothing I can do about it, it is still a problem.