/lit/ - Literature

>>11263142
I think if you showed the YA hunger games audience BotNS their heads would turn inside out

>>11263142
BotNS isn't YA at all, it's genuinely quite good but perhaps slightly overrated by /sffg/.

nth for
>compulsory reading

>>11263181
It's not the greatest work of literature I've ever read but it is far and away the best work of /sffg/ material I've ever read.

Can you rate my lists of books and say what is lacking/what can be taken out? Also any suggestion about the proper fields are welcome.
Fantasy list https://pastebin.com/FcnixaRS
Science Fiction list https://pastebin.com/DDFM2Nvt

Thanks.

Just finished Watts's new book. Not bad. A bit disappointing that some of the bigger issues (where is humanity? What are those things coming out of the wormholes?) weren't tackled. I guess it makes sense though, it's a limited/self-contained story. The attached short story was just OK.

>>11263142
It's good. It's nowhere near as great as /lit/ makes it out to be, but it's quite enjoyable.

I'm around 61% through Dragonquest right now, just finished the wedding chapter. Can't wait for Kylara to get fucking KILLED

>that fuccboi who got triggered by my One Piece image
LMAOing @ your life

>>11263263
Ah yes the cosmere

>>11263280
Name a more ambitious concept in fantasy than the Cosmere. This is why Gene Wolf is a hack.

>>11263241
I think it makes sense not to tackle that stuff.
I quite liked the ending.

Just finished it today. This book was written 18 years ago, and doesn't come close to feeling dated.

I wish I had someone to talk with about it. Anyone else get an overwhelming feeling of withdrawal when you finish a great book, your mind racing with ideas and thoughts but there's nobody to share them with right after?

It would be a warm Saturday afternoon, they'd be waiting for me outside near a cafe. My car would pull around the corner, and from there we would drive. Drive and talk, and drive, and talk and look out the window at all the little street, beautiful homes, and random people.

>>11263492
All of Reynolds' books do that to me. House of Suns might help you recover

>>11263434
Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion mythos

>>11263492
Now read all the supplemental material.

>>11263492
I used to, but I haven't read a series that's made me feel that way in years. Plenty of okay series that I've enjoyed, but nothing that really excited me. At this point I'm just looking for books I can bother to finish reading.

>>11263434

>Sanderson writes competently written books solely for entertainment with great magic and worldbuilding
>/sffg/ hates this

>>11263280
This man is a queer con artist

Seems the resident troll has gone from shilling cum loudly to shilling Sanderfag

>Every single story where the love interest rewards the beta males beta behavior with sex

How disgusting

>>11263899
At least meta cum lorde is good looking ya know

Anything with cute lesbians doing cute things?

>>11263899
I've never read Sanderson.
Currently at book 6 of Throne of Glass. Into it so I can't post about it for the moment.

>>11263928
Ask /u/, they've got a big list of stuff.

>>11263527
Damn I didn't need to be reminded of that tonight

>>11261651
Not joking: read Harry Potter.

>>11263899
It was Library at Mount Char before that

Anyone here ever read "The Hungering Saga" by Heath Pfaff or as I like to call it: "how much suffering can one guy take"

>>11264003
I've heard Library is actually good from a friend whose taste I trust.

But before that, there were the "little girl protagonist" and "gay rape & incest" bits.

>>11264007
Is the suffering from having to read the writing?

>>11263928
>>11263969
Try this >>2626538

>>11264067
I meant
>>>/u/2626537

>>11263897

>>11264007
>or as I like to call it: "how much suffering can one guy take"
that would be Muv-Luv Alternative

>>11264084
>mormon
>pretty fine suit
>death metal shirt
>that goofy fucking hair
>that potato face

It's like he's halfway through a Buster Keaton bit

>>11264003
this was the one i forgot the name of that buddy tried to shill me at the bookseller a thread or two ago. I'm assuming its shit

>>11264105

Good God, what a legend

>>11264084
Did he lose weight or gain weight? He looks practically anorexic in this compared to the other photos.

>Book does a title drop during a character monologue

This is probably the wrong thread to ask but I'm trying to remember a book I read as a teenager (maybe younger) that I got from your typical Schoolastic book fair. Trying to search for it does no good and somehow Franklin Rides A Bike shows up in the image search far too often regardless of the combination of words I use.

I specifically remember the cover of the book had a xenomorph looking person attached to a futuristic bicycle. Like your stereotypical hunched cyclist in a speedsuit with curved helmet and high-speed bike.

It was dealing with transhumanism and artificial humans. The majority of the book is about a guy that got some of his limbs cut off (i don't remember the reason) and he escaped into a cave (or sewer system). I don't remember if it was just too dark or his infection caused him to lose his site. He spends most the time with these artificial amphibian-like human trying to protect them and teaching them how to do things.

Books ends with the grown up artificial humans vs transhumanist tribes fighting each other.

>>11264160
there is a hyperbolic time chamber in the cosmere where he trained before his mormon wedding. please brush up on your cosmere lore

One week left!

If you read in English, make sure your version is the 2011 translation.
Download: https://share.soupwhale.com/bibliotik/files/Solaris%20-%20Stanislaw%20Lem/

Finished Artificial Condition. It was ok.

>>11263143
>>https://imgoat.com/uploads/b44928ae11/114401.jpg
>cyberpunk
>post-cyberpunk
these really do not represent major movements OP
And also Fountains of Paradise was written in 1979 - wtf is it doing in the golden age list?

>>11264450
also golden age and pulps are basically the same, 1930s/1940s
If you mean the 1950s when things began to become more complex that should be its own distinct category
Listing works like The Demolished Man and Stranger in a Strange Land

>>11264452
Where do Wells, Verne and Lindsey even fit?

>>11263492
Read the follow ups: Redemption Ark and Absolution Gap
And the stand alone novels and the short stories
shits intense, I particularly liked the one with Nevil on Mars with the Conjoiners
While Captain Bratigans fate, and the revelation of how old he might really be, is heartbreaking

>>11264457
precursors or 'scientific romanticism'

I think we should make a list that goes:
precursors / scientific romanticism
1930s/1940s pulp fiction
1950s things start to become more complex
1960s/1970s new wave
1980s hard sf, space fantasies, cyberpunk
1990s/2000s space opera strikes back, slipstream, speculative fiction

>>11264491
What about this decade?

>>11264499
Feminist Speculative Fiction
Post-Colonial Fantasy
Queerpunk

What year do you think you're living in? Something other than the CURRENT YEAR?

i just watched annihilation. so did garland or vandermeer rip off the alzabo from book of the new sun?

>>11264938
As far as I recall the bear isn't in the book. There's another creature but it isn't clearly described.

>>11264869
feminism has been in SF since the 1960s you fucking retard it was a big component of the New Wave
wtf is post-colonial fantasy?
people have been writing gay/lesbian/trans characters in SF since the 1960s, again also part of the New Wave

>>11265045
The Alzabo seemed to be able to not only mimic voice but intelligence too, if that makes any sense. That bearthing seemed instinctual and about as smart as a bear. That being said the way the scene worked was eerily similar.

>>11265150
It was a joke, anon. I made those genres up.

>>11265235
>I was pretending to be illiterate

What is this, a Bradbury book?

>>11265150
>wtf is post-colonial fantasy?
orc refugees

What books feature development of technology over time?
I figured the Orthogonal trilogy by Egan would have been perfect but I struggled through the first book and a lot of shit was over my head.

>>11265408
Canticle for Leibowitz

>>11264491
>1910: science fiction started

>>11262032
>>11262041
Thanks for the recommendations.

>>11262464
I was on a VMBO high school in the Netherlands, I don't know how education in the USA is but in the Netherlands it's the lowest of multiple tiers.

>>11265408
I'd say The Last and First Men but that's more like a ping-pong ball in a tumble dryer in regards to technological development.

>>11265150
>wtf is post-colonial fantasy?

Well I'd suppose it would be stories that addresses colonialism. The only stuff I can really think of is the Temeraire series (colonial expansion is slower because the native populations have literal dragons), the City of Stairs series (a lot of the underlying motivations of some characters relate to if harsh colonial policies against the former Evil Empire should be continued), and the the second Dandelion Dynasty book (evil mongol-Americans invade fantasy China and have wind-powered aircraft carriers.)

There's more scifi stuff about colonialism honestly, space colonists meet aliens on a planet, or corporations oppress the space colonists. But I expect we'll see more American frontier themed stuff as the gunpowder fantasy subgenre takes off.

>"Deadline? Nobody said anything about no fucking deadline!."

>>11266114
i don't know anyone who cares about it anymore

>>11265408
Pushing Ice

What is your favorite scifi/fantasy audiobook lads, thinking of what to listen to next on the job.

>>11266582
depends on the narrator in my opinion. depending on who narrates the work is what decides it for me weather i read the book or listen to the audiobook.
is there anything specific you want to listen too?

>>11266647
>is there anything specific
not realy just wanted some recks i have already litten to the "top 100 scifi audiobooks"not all but half.
So maybe some fantasy.

>>11266686
Throne of Glass.

>>11266686
i just finished listening to disciples of the horned one which someone recommended here. that was fairly enjoyable. beyond that if you haven't listened to the kingkiller chronicles both versions are great in my opinion. i also recently bit the bullet and listened to super sales and found the narration excellent. next im planning to listen to how to tame your dragon since i heard thats really well narrated. though mostly aimed at children. doesnt bother me though.

>>11266698
Did the Narrator graduated Magna cum laude?

>>11266698
THOT OF GLASS

First person or third person, /sffg/? You've got Wolfe in one corner and just about everyone else in the other. Who do you think wins?

>>11266114
Does this dude get his hands shrunk every time he disappoints his fans? Is it his curse? I swear they're smaller every time I see him.

>>11264160
Writing Wax and Wayne gave him AIDS

>>11266800
Third person always. First person is for YA and women.

>>11266582
ubik read by luke daniels is really fucking good. he does a different voice for every character and it plays out like a good radio play. bonus that runciter sounds like strong bad

>>11266927
>Mark Twain, Proust and Herman Melville are for children

found the basedboy

>>11266800
The rest of him is just getting bigger.

>>11266964
You raise a good point. I was thinking of more modern works. For whatever reason, when I thought first person all I could remember were YA novels. Now that I've thought more about it, I see where you're coming from. I still prefer third person though.

>multiple pov book
>40% of the PoV's are fun and one is the clear protagonist
>the other 60% are a chore to read

every single time

>>11267107
>main characters are annoying or cliche
>all other characters are well developed and exciting

>>11267107
Stormlight is amazing.

>>11266936
>luke daniels
great narrator.

>>11267142
why is his hair so greasy? it's gross

well /sffg/ i finished the corwin cycle of the amber chronices, and the ending practically made me cry. the way corwin so frankly describes his siblings, willing to moralize about them but so pragmatically, is weirdly touching (especially brand and llewela, who was the only sibling with no important role in the plot).

i also really dug the last volume, it felt classical in structure, very odyssey-like, but where the final battle is being approached rather than home, and we see the wandering hero rather than the battle itself, with numerous bizarre indvidual trials of personal and metaphysical import. 10/10 absolutely kino

>>11267142
Ah, another pic for my Sanderson-posting collection. Cheers anon.

>>11267320
Zelazny is my favorite author. I love his themes and prose. Sadly the second Amber series is nowhere as good as the first but I still liked it. If you haven't read Lord of Light you should definitely check it out sometime. That's his best stand alone book. He was also great at short stories.

>>11267692
His Wild Cards character almost single handedly makes the whole project worthwhile

>>11266800
First or third doesn't matter, it's the writer's skill that's important. I think the attitudes against first are laughable. Zelazny's Amber books are first person and the Corwin series is fantastic.

>>11266936
fucking incredible cover might I say

>>11266582
shades of grey jasper fforde is pretty good

>>11267808
here's an isolated pic of the art

Currently reading VALIS for the first time
Am I supposed to relate to Fat and his girlfriends?

Top tier coming of age fantasy right here. And I know my YA/coming of age fantasy because it's literally all I read. Excellent character progression and growth that spans the whole book rather than a few chapters. Great supporting characters and really well written. Would recommend

>>11268541
Is the second book out yet? The ending wasn't that appealing to me but I'll probably read it anyway

>>11264048
>I've heard Library is actually good from a friend whose taste I trust.
It's not.

Any good podcast that review fantasy novels without spoiling things?

Just finished the 2nd book of the Kingkiller Chronicle


What the fuck happened towards the end? The bandit hunt was boring but had a nice payoff. You think Kvothe is going back to the Maer but nope lol here's the Felurian filler episode. Then he goes to the Adem for a few hundred pages, then he goes to kill some more bandits and then the story's pacing has completely shit itself.

>>11268823
Well having sex with a woman is like playing a fine instrument

>>11268580
no I think its on the 4 edit or something. pretty annoying but if the quality is as good or better it will worth it

>>11264434
I just read it too. This shit is essentially Jack Reacher/Jason Bourne with an android. How did it win a HUGO?

>>11268842
and he's an expert at both !

>>11268823
I didn't read the two books that long ago and I basically completely forgot what even happened but Rothfuss is never finishing it anyway so whatever I guess

bless Hobb for starting something huge and actually finishing it

>>11268749
I heard it's dark and that's really not my thing but what else about it is not good?

>>11268823
>What the fuck happened towards the end?
Rothfuss got distracted fellating Kvothe. Book 1 Kvothe had some obnoxious tendencies for sure but book 2 Kvothe is such a ridiculous Mary Sue that it singlehandedly torpedoes the entire series. Nothing in the hypothetical book 3 could possibly redeem it.

>>11267334
Here. Have this.

>>11267133
Joe Abercrombie follows this religiously.

Epic fantasy: A man or woman on a horse or something. There's a good chance they're looking off to the right because rightward motion conveys plot progression. (this is the opposite in Japanese media, note how in the Girls Last Tour anime the characters travel towards the left)

High fantasy: You gather your party consisting of a fighting specialist, a cleric from the local Unitarian Universalist church, a woman in sheer robes who knows earthly magyks, a learned wiyzard, and a rakeish rogue. Character races are determined by rolling on a 2d6 chart, and can be supplemented with other stock characters such as traveling druids, paladins, or twin-wielding dark elves on the 1d20 supplemental character chart.

Low fantasy: A photo of a renfaire actor with a sword/bow or the author's HEMA buddies fighting behind a photoshop filter.

Dark fantasy: A greasy tanned warrior with spiked armor glowers at the camera like he's auditioning for a Game of Thrones knockoff for Showtime, probably the top portion of his face is cropped out of the shot and he might have a "non-heroic weapon" like a hammer or axe instead of a sword to show how much of a gritty anti-hero he is.

YA fantasy cover: Photo of a costumed attractive young woman or brooding young man posing at the camera with a bow (woman) or sword (man), if they have a dagger they're an assassin.

Urban fantasy: A woman in a tanktop and leather coat/pants or a man in a duster and fedora pose against a heavily distorted photo of a alley. If it's romance themed they might face the camera, revealing their abs. If it's crime themed they hold a flashlight and or gun.

>>11267107
I quit the Dagger and Coin series by the Expanse guy because of this.

Viewpoints were, as I recall:
Older swordsman turned mercenary.
Orphaned girl who became a banker's apprentice, bamboozles her way into becoming a actual banker.
Old fortune teller guy who ends up going on a sword and sorcery adventure in the jungle with the swordsman.
FAT HITLER who wears leather cloaks and has a goatee and the author spends a ton of time trying to make sympathetic.

>>11269841
Your epic fantasy covers are a little dated. These days it's more likely to be a solid white cover with a close up, super detailed picture of an object, usually a weapon or a piece of armor, but can be anything "symbolic" and the title is just a single adjective or else is a randomly assembled "noun of adjective" title.

>YA fantasy title is a four letter noun

>>11263690
But Micheal Moorcock ripped off Geralt of Rivia

>>11269893
I was mainly thinking of character-focused covers rather than the current trend. Though with those I find it interesting how they change from market to market, apparently different regions like different abstract covers.

The dark fantasy version is exemplified by Joe Abercombie covers, a pile of parchment on fire or covered with blood or whatever, with a dagger lying on top or something like a trashy detective novel.

Any good? the show seem's like shit but I've heard it's just bad translation.

>>11269990
the author shows up in the comments sections of blogs to yell at reviewers about how the sex he writes is the sex he has.

>>11265232
When I saw it in theaters I thought this immediately. It’s definitely ripped off.

>>11269993
I also heard there's a lotta sex that's kinda fucking stupid. Like talking about how stiff main dudes cock is far to often.

>>11264450
Cyberpunk was a major movement, even if only in retrospect. Even if you disagree, requests for cyberpunk recommendations are common. "Post-Cyberpunk" was a better term than "90s SF", and I think the recs on that row all represent at least a partial rejection of the concerns and aesthetics of cyberpunk.

The Fountains of Paradise might have been written after the period referred to as "Golden Age", but it was written by Clarke, a stereotypical Golden Age writer, in a stereotypical if relatively refined Golden Age manner, and doesn't have any of the hallmarks of New Wave writing: literary pretension, focus on characters, preoccupation with social issues, etc.

>>11269939
oh come on at least put in a little effort

>>11263889
It's a real problem that his characters have less depth than the Animorphs.

>>11269648
he is the most interesting character he has ever written, and he's written some characters

>>11270106
I didn’t feel like it honestly, sorry

>>11270090
The dubious quality of cyberpunk work is a major detriment to the genre. Neuromancer is shakily good, but there are no other CP books that match up. Cyberpunk visuals are in the end what we think about when we think about the genre.

>>11270009
Do >we want a BotNS adaptation, even if it's faithful to the book?

>>11270251
I want a Latro adaptation.

>>11266936
yes ubik was quite good. Most Dicks are great.

>>11270282
Oh, even better

>>11270416
>that's what she said

>when the author uses jealous instead of envious

>>11270251
id like a BotNS adaptation but i feel like it would work better as an animated movie. or rather, 4 animated movies. if they tried to adapt it to live action they would try to rush everything and probably skip over a shitload of stuff just to cram everything into one 2 hour cgi fest.

>>11270416
Do Philip K. Dick fans call themselves Dicksuckers?

>>11270632
Dickies

>>11270587
Animated TV show, 3-4 episodes/book

>>11270015
Yeah the sex scenes felt out of place for me and it's the same for the sequel. The book is good though and considerably better than the show.

>>11270632
They're actually called Dickheads.

>>11270632
>>11270642
>>11270663
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I

If Mary Sues are so bad why do all the most popular novels and series have one as a main character?

>>11270893
Because almost no one posting on this shithole knows what a fucking Mary Sue is.

>>11270893
many characters arent mary sues. also powerful mcs are a reason behind sales. a survey from 2007 made by barns and noble found out that over 70% of fantasy and scifi readers self insert as the main character because of how powerful they are.

>>11270924
I liked Severian best when he took his shoes off during that walk along the seashore as not to desecrate Creation.

>>11269861
>do the opposite of what you're told in sffg
Serves your ass right. You were told to avoid Abraham multiple times for years, yet you read his book. I hope you continue being contrarian and end up an heroing from the lost time you will never get back from shit books.

>>11268823
The 2nd book really is a mess. Rothfuss didn't have a fucking clue with what he really wanted to do, Kvothe murdering the gypsy's and walking around the muddy forest looking for bandits is literally the only good parts of the books. The rest is just the same as The Name of the Wind, him getting fellatio and a training montage. It's a mess and we barely even took a single step towards him finding the Chandrian, which is the real plot. I repeat it's a mess.

>>11269990
The show is accommodating sjw. Just so you know. The book does no such pandering.

>>11270140
Take it back.

>>11271243
>>>reddit

Go

>>11270924
See I never do this, I usually like the main character so I can't Imagine myself instead them, because if I did I lose the character. I usually imagine myself as one of the trusty companion/side characters that says rude insults to characters I find annoying or flawed.

>>11271256
Never went to redshit, never will.
Did I hurt your feelings?
>>>/lgbt/
>>>/tv/

>>11271238
I wish I had never bothered with the Locke Lamora series, I read the first two books, didn't mind the first, the second started to wear on me and about 100 pages into the third I just dropped it because I really did not give a fuck about them anymore.

I'm feeling good about making that chart today, the one I promised you guys a few months ago.

>>11271287
which one? therese several guys doing charts. theres the harm guy, the fantasy after 2009 guy. the scifi after 2009 guy and the actually good fantasy and scifi romance books that arent full of ntr guy.

>>11263143
I've been reading the Culture series recently and it's been leaving a sour taste in my mouth.
I like the space opera, I like the hypertech, I like the humor, I can stand the writing, but the plots are just too dumb.
I don't know if it's because I'm already 4 books in but I've been able to tell what is gonna happen in the books sooner and sooner, Excession being real bad at this.
Where can I go if I want the Culture but with better stories?

>>11271424
>I'm already 4 books in
Just take a break, man.

Try Revelation Space or The Golden Age.

>>11271442
I did take a break actually, I came back to Excession after finishing Use of Weapon 6 months ago. Thanks for the recommendations.

>>11271307
A mixture between harem and after 2009.
The self published guy, aka not a publishing house. Will have Daniel Black and wild wastes, among others.

>>11263143
Anything similar to the Gentle seduction?
I'm kind of attached to that story for personal reasons

>>11271838
The Cat and the Coochie?

>>11271307
>good fantasy and scifi romance books that arent full of ntr
Is this really a problem? I see it mentioned on these threads every now and then, but I don't think I've read a book with blatant NTR. Then again I tend to stay away from fantasy with heavy romance in due to the fact that 99% of the time they're garbage.

>>11270924
Source on that? I don't want to believe it.

Think Wheel of Time has ruined Fantasy on me, haven't finished a book since I dropped it.

>>11271954
So bad?

>>11271954
Says a lot when Sanderson writing WoT is far better than Sanderson writing Sanderson.

read my book nerd

>>11272036
i thought your stuff was really bad
i didn't deride my friend when he gushed about your book though so you can have that

Kingkiller Chronicles is the best fantasy PERIOD. Blew me away lads.

>>11271930
its really been an issue since the late 90s when game of thrones happened. ever since that relationships in fantasy and sci-fi cant be straight forward anymore. they all have to include some sort of drama long the lines of cheating. and naturally because game of thrones sells so well its being emulated by a lot of "epic fantasy" writers.

>>11271238
What’s wrong with Elric and gormenghast? I was under the impression the latter was at least considered a “great”?

I can at least guess why Witcher stuff is on there though.

>>11272134
Don’t you know that cuckolding is the intellectuals fetish, desu.

Fucking glad I’ve missed any ntr books so far, besides game of thrones.

Is the rest of Suldrun's Garden as good as the first one?

>>11272036
Is that an SS Ehrendolch? Can I have one?

>>11272239
have you read Prince of Thorns at least? normally i only give gifts to fans that have read all my books but I'm getting desperate

>>11272359
Sorry I only accept gifts from people who have graduated Magna Cum Laude.

>All these borrowings from Lovecraft are a trifle amusing. VanderMeer, like so many other self-righteous individuals, now finds it fashionable to disparage Lovecraft for all manner of perceived personal and literary derelictions; but he is evidently not above snatching critical elements from his revolutionary work when it suits his purposes.

>It is, however, a pity that VanderMeer could not have duplicated some modicum of Lovecraft’s compelling readability or his meticulous craftsmanship. Area X is excruciatingly dull, slow, ponderous, and tiresome. Its characters are flat and undistinctive; the development of the plot (if such it can be called) proceeds at a glacial pace and often leads to irrelevant digressions and opaque denouements; and its prose, whenever it does not descend into solecisms (“My heart felt like an animal had become trapped in my chest” [29]) or jarring sentence fragments, is almost entirely lacking in affect, resembling a droning monotone that is utterly devoid of emotive resonance. Toward the end one character states: “Don’t you get tired after a while?…Of always moving forward but never reaching the end?” (566). This is a lamentably exact description of the reader’s dismal plight in slogging through this excruciating hodgepodge of incoherency and pointless verbiage.

>It is amusing to note that among VanderMeer’s characters are a black woman (Grace Stevenson), a Hispanic man (John Rodriguez), a gay man (Seth Evans), and a lesbian woman (Grace Stevenson). All very proper according to the canons of politically correct multiculturalism. The only problem is that these figures are all so indistinguishable from one another that their ethnic or sexual characteristics are of little relevance to their overall personalities and have no bearing upon the actions that their author mechanically forces them to carry out. In particular, the scenes with Seth and his lover are so mortifyingly wooden and clumsy as to seem like parodies of gay lovemaking.

How will Jeff "don't read Ernest Hemingway" VanderMeer ever recover?

>>11263207
You should learn to think for yourself

>>11272474
>The only problem is that these figures are all so indistinguishable from one another that their ethnic or sexual characteristics are of little relevance to their overall personalities and have no bearing upon the actions that their author mechanically forces them to carry out


Wait, I thought treating a character as an actual character and not whatever "minority" group they're apart of was the "right" way to write them whereas making a big deal out of it was "wrong". Which one is it/

>>11272561
There's a middle ground, anon. Making a character totally defined by their sexuality/ethnicity is hacky writing but making a character a certain sexuality/ethnicity just to pander is also hacky writing. VanderMeer is guilty of the latter crime.

>>11272187
The series' ending is rushed in a pretty awkward way, but that's what happens when an author wraps everything up in three books of even length. You should definitely keep reading.

Is Ancillary Justice as SJW as some people say?

>>11272728
Who are these 'some people'?

>>11272728
it was a slow start book, culdn`t get past the beginning

>>11271267
>i'm not reddit you're reddit!

>>11272474
>Lovecraft’s compelling readability or his meticulous craftsmanship

>>11273190
What, you don't like his word smith talents or niggerman?

>whole life of sufering
>tries to get power whole life at expense of love making everyone hate u
>the end of your life is a meaningless death(i mean the epitome of your plans was killing darkness queen but he died)
>the only woman ever to love him forgets him and goes for elf dick
being raistlin is truly suffering

>>11273338
just finished the series
any book to heal me from the sadness that raistlin story made me suffer?

>>11272981
Reddit.

>>11272728
Yes

>long series
>worked out a character's entire plot within like 100 pages because of author hints and "subtle" foreshadowing
hate this so much

>>11272474
Wow, you'd never guess that a lovecraft fanboy wrote this reviews

>>11273541
what shitty series are you referencing?

>>11273563
A couple but the latest is Liveship which is actually fantastic

>>11273554
Joshi's hilarious because he's an incredibly critical reviewer but he venerates the a trashy pulp author in the rest of his writing

>>11273570
mind writing out what you mean? I'd be interested to hear it. won't comment on it unless you want to of course

also I'm glad you're liking the beginning of liveship because it's really slow and the first chapter especially was just boring as shit for me

Don't know if anyone gives a shit but the first book of one of my favorite fantasy series is gonna be published in english soon.
https://www.europaeditions.com/book/9781609454838/a-winter-s-promise-volume-1-of-the-mirror-visitor-quartet
Don't let the YAish synopsis fool you, it's honestly one of the best books I've ever read. Of course, who knows how much might be lost in translation.

Is the First Law trilogy any good?

List good points and bad points

How does it compare to Kingkiller Chronicle

>>11273677
I got terribly bored in chapter 3 or so but I plan on going back to it, maybe even soon

>>11263813
I've had that same thing, thing is, you desire a very specific kind of thing right now,
and it's unrealistic to seek that in a different author.
What worked for me is going for something completely different and allowing myself to be surprised by something completely unexpected. So a completely different setting, genre, tone.
Chasing that previous high only leads to burnout, I think.

I've been re-reading Eisenhorn and it's a real treat. Outstanding, sprawling work of action that masterfully uses GW lorebooks. Same with Ravenor, Bequin, Gaunt's Ghosts. I could not get into the 'grandiose' works that Abnett also wrote about Horus and the like. Did he write anything else about pursuits not so grand in the reaches of the WH40K universe? Apart from that I read Embedded and it's not as good.

I care much more about characters that are not larger than life and that have more human woes.

>>11273677
Currently half way through the second book, it really flows well IMO. Been a while since I went through a book as quick as the first one.
>good
Great dialogue, great characters, no wish-fulfillment characters, well written action and interesting plot
>bad
meh lore, a somewhat bland world so far

Just finished Ward's Eclipse interlude and it was a great time. Damsel best character.

>>11272728
i regret reading past the first book

>>11272728
It's a space opera revenge story about a starship AI that stole a cyborg super soldier set in a evil empire that's advanced to the point where gender doesn't exist any more because it's as easy for them to manipulate flesh as it is metal. This barely comes up in the books outside of the main character having trouble dealing with barbarians from less advanced societies that still have gender. The author uses "she" instead of a neutral pronoun, which is yeah, sure, whatever, I've seen it done either way before, it's a contrivance to adapt a futuristic language to English.

It only really got notable because it won a Hugo in a year where there wasn't a lot of stuff, and it got a bunch of spite votes because Wheel of Time fans were trying to retroactively award a Hugo to the entire series. So aside from that, a zombie novel at the point when everbody had gotten tired of zombies, and like 2-3 other books that were "book 4 of 15 in the over-wrought fantasy name cycle" there was basically fuck-all for competition. The author of one of the sequel books decided that no, obviously he lost a popularity contest because of liberals conspiring against him (Wheel of Time got twice as many votes but apparently doesn't count) and raised a big stink.

The sequels themselves are middling. The second is essentially a Jane Austin thing in space ("the main character ruins a teenage girl's life") while the third returns to the Space Opera setup but isn't quite as good as the original.

Picked this up today, is it a good place to start with Mieville?

>>>/v/418819183
ugh
>>11274067
Most of his books have very different premises, so it's as good a place as any, I started with it.

>>11274074
>ugh
why are you there any ways

>>11274074
Pending if I like it, is the rest of the trilogy worth it?

>>11274079
Because I like playing some pc games.

>>11274084
It was interesting enough, second one was pretty cool.

>>11274067
I did not care for Perdido Street Station until the last page, but I loved The City and The City. If you don't happen to like that one, don't give up.

>Protagonist is a stupid lazy neet

Only the best literature has unlikable protags

>>11274112
Embassytown seems like a cracking good read

>>11272142
It's a bait image. It takes a random selection of great books, good books, and bad books and groups them all together as "books to be avoided" even though they have nothing in common.

>>11266582
First Law Trilogy narrated by Steven Pacey is excellent.

For anyone looking for more of the type of humor Tehol and Bug had in the Malazan books, recommend reading Catch 22 (assuming you haven't already). It tickles my funny bone in a very similar way despite the novels having absolutely nothing in common

>>11274293
Read journey into the night after you've finished catch 22 anon

>>>/v/418819183

lol

>>11274361
that whole thread and not a single good Sanderson-post for my Sanderson-posting collection. sad!

>>11274361
I don't know, the first two books weren't that terrible or at least not as bad as the third one. The first two would make for good musou games.

>>11274431
press x to carry bridge for 300 pages

Any good Felix and Gotrek books? Thinking about getting into warhammer fantasy books since the first 3 Horus Heresy ones were pretty entertaining.

Just recommended The Merlin Conspiracy to an anon on /tv/, figured I'd check the archive to see if there was any good discussion on it a few posts on /tg/, nothing here for nearly 7 years and have decided to re-read it.

>>11274351
Journey to the End of the Night or Long Day's Journey into Night?

>>11273790
Yeah but it's not like I don't enjoy reading fantasy. I do. I just can't get the same high I used to. I've settled for merely okay entertainment.

>>11274460
They're all really fun, Slayer's the absolute standout but it's way better with the context of reading the rest of the series first.

I'd just say read in order and skip one if it's boring, the first is short stories IIRC and after that it's all pulp adventures.

>>11274471
The Celine one, Heller massively borrowed from it to put things kindly

>>11274468
It's a bit too kiddy to really bring up here, although pretty much everything Diana Wynne Jones wrote is perfect children's/ya fantasy.

>>11274460
Someone just posted a giant dump of Horus Heresy on usenet -- should I grab them all?

>>11274636
I can't speak for the others but the first 3 are pretty good. interesting to see how a lot of the 40k universe hallmarks came to be

>>11274636
you can always just go to /tg/, they used and probably still do have a mediafire folder with every warhammer book

I want to get into SF literature, is it a good idea to start with Foundation? I've always like robots and AI stories

>>11274271
>anything I don't like is bait
What they have in common was that I read them and they were shit, and I was recommended them here on lit.

Fuck off. You're probably the cunt that recommended last unicorn, buried giant and red knight to me. Neck yourself you scum piece of fucking shit. Fuck you.

>>11274981
Foundation is a lot of fun. It's an interconnected series of stories based on Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Very cleverly done. Theme and scope over story, characterization over character.

If you're into robots and AI you might want to start with the robot novels, continue into the galactic empire novels and then to Foundation. But they're not as strong and you don't lose anything by using them as backfill once you've run out of Foundation books.

>>11275122
Excellent, sounds good anon. Should I read Decline and Fall before Foundation?

I think anon was inspired by Tsathoggua when making this Pepe.

>I had never seen an image of Tsathoggua before, but I recognized him without difficulty from the descriptions I had heard. He was very squat and pot-bellied, his head was more like that of a monstrous toad than a deity, and his whole body was covered with an imitation of short fur, giving somehow a vague suggestion of both the bat and the sloth. His sleepy lids were half-lowered over his globular eyes; and the tip of a queer tongue issued from his fat mouth. In truth, he was not a comely or personable sort of god, and I did not wonder at the cessation of his worship, which could only have appealed to very brutal and aboriginal men at any time.

>>11274424
Have one on me anon.

>>11275138
Decline and Fall is an absolutely savory masterwork of English that every speaker of the language should enjoy in his lifetime. It's wry and funny and smart and arch and wise and learned all at once.

But it's not required to enjoy Foundation, just the knowledge that it's grounded in something. If you know the received (not revisionist) wisdom of the fall of Rome it will resonate. As Asimov said, "I did a little bit of cribbin from the works of Edward Gibbon"...and he did a good enough job that everyone can enjoy it.

>>11275122
Why is there a wojak holding his chin in the rocks?

>>11274476
>I just can't get the same high I used to.
Wild wastes
Daniel Black
Super sales on Super heroes

>>11275115
No, I've never even read any of those books. I genuinely did think the chart was bait, though, since there seemed to be no pattern to it whatsoever. I guess you just have bad taste if you're shitting on something like Gormenghast though.

>>11275193
Stop recommending bad books. It's impolite.

>>11275261
I read the start of Super Sales and it seemed like a good setup. What didn't you like?

>>11275179
An excellent observation, anon. I don't remember enough about Robots of Dawn to justify that weird imposition.

>>11275272
He never read them. He just parrots what others say to "fit in". I'm sure he is that guy from tv / v that doesn't even read.

Coming of age fantasy is beyond comfy.

>>11275138
I mean no, but everyone should read the decline and fall of the roman empire at least once in their life

>>11265982
Pretty sure The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson is post-colonial, or maybe it's just bureaucratic.

>>11275306
Is it actually about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire or is it a metaphor or something?

>>11275155
Why is Yoda eating that man?

>>11275122
>characterization over character

Explain this contradictory sounding sentence to a brainlet.

>>11275370
The characters are embodiments of the zeitgeist of the times they live in, rather than expressions of psychological humanism.

>>11275115
Ok then what are some good books to read?

>>11275317
It's just a history book. It is a pretty great name if you're trying to be metaphorical though

>>11275162
is that his me ma?

>>11275317
It is literally about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, but it was written in the British Empire (published the same year as the American Revolution) so it's metaphorical in the sense of one drawing a cautionary tale.

A caution that Britain refused to heed and now finds itself a third-rate power overrun by people it owned

>>11275453
I feel sorry for Britain. I really wish I could respect them, but they've let their country go to shit. And
>no guns
So I don't see a revolution happening.

>>11275528
Oi m8 u got ur revolution loicense there me old china

Currently reading Valis by Philip K. Dick.
It's a real mind twister.

>>11275395
You want a book that transcends the good/bad dichotomy of fantasy? Doesn't exist. Seeing as literature is subjective. Even if 100 people praise one thing, there will always be 1 that hates it.

Whatever I suggest you will dislike just on principle, just to one-up my "tastes".

>>11275597
So why did you make a chart labeling all these different books as shit that people shouldn't read if it's all subjective?

>>11275528
To be honest lad things are bad but they're picking up in pace now. It will be accelerationism w0t does it.

>>11275423
It's Robert's widow, who he fucked.

>Just found out Robert Jordan was buried an hour and a half away from me

Now I feel obligated to read WoT.

>>11275604
Because I objectively know they are shit.

>>11275658
>just found out that a hour and a half in any direction from me someone is having sex right now
Now I feel obligated to lose my virginity.

>>11275615
>Accelerationism
I keep hearing this meme. Da fuq does.i even mean?

>>11275679
The British gubmint has been pushing out an ideology in conflict with the majority of it's population for almost a generation, only increasing with intensity throughout.

"Accelerationism" is the idea that societal collapse as a result of the modern political climate is inevitable, and that actively encouraging it to come sooner is preferable to allowing it to be dragged on (and thus have certain things be much worse than they would otherwise be).

>>11275647
He did it for research. Also I bet he has a footlong schlong because how else would he have the audacity to write like he does.

>>11275726
Sanderson dialogue is a gift.

>>11275726
cat girls ! my only weakness !

>>11275726
that's so bad I'm not even bothered by the spoilers, but then again i really want to picture vin in cat ensemble. A bravo a mr.snadersan. truly the erotic hentai master the erotica genre has been lusting for

>>11275726
Is his fetish yandere cat girls? Does she kill him too?

Are there any books that cover the expansion from the human race from a solar to galactic span?

>>11275867
Xeelee series by Stephen Baxter, start w/ Vacuum Diagrams
Count to a Trillion series
Diaspora kinda
Revelation Space series kinda

>>11275867
The Macross series does that

>>11271307
>good fantasy and scifi romance books that arent full of ntr guy
Share the chart. I'm sick of kekoldry.

>>11276192
So what’s with the ntr guy meme in this? Is there a list or anything? Only book I know with ntr is game of thrones and that’s no suprise. It has about every other form of sex, besides maybe necro.

>>11276315
I dunno, but if there is a chart for new fantasy books with romance then I want to see it.

Jesus Christ, I decided to listen to Stations of the tide since it was in a suggested image, a random choice. I didn’t expect for that sex scene with Undine.

>>11263143
Anyone know any good sci-fi revolving around the crew of a small ship. Something with relatively laid back characters rather than the usual brooding characters and predictable assassin with tragic background

>>11275726
This juat confirms my "Brandon Sanderson is a queer snake oil salesman" hypothesis from earlier.

>>11276577
The Expanse, duh

>>11273979
pretty much agree with this

Why am I reading a shitty self published amazon book?
>the universities location was chosen for blah blah blah
>then describes how it grew organically with no choice in location made at any point in its history

>>11268541
>gets bullied by everyone - the book
the book was too long and had some really tiresome parts

How does Glen Cook's The Black Company compare to the likes of Vance, Wolfe and Tolkien's works?

>>11276631
Nice and it's a series too! Thank f a m

>>11276987
Certainly has a very different tone than Tolkien, though it's not really "grimdark" as it is tagged in the chart. Main character is softhearted enough to be a good guy, though I think that changes in later books somewhat.

>>11276998
>the killer who wants his company to look good is softhearted
>writes about events in a favourable light to benefit the company

>>11277023
Newer said that most people in the company were anything more than glorified killers for hire, though most of them don't seem to be sadists (though a few were rapists).

Why are these considered to be awful and childish garbage written for money?

>>11277045
It's just that one guy.

>>11277066
So why are they considered awful and childish garbage compared to GRRMs A Song of Ice and Fire series?
How does the quality differ between Vance and Martin as a writers?

>>11277092
Vance is influential but kinda shit. Gurm is mediocre.

>>11277121
>Vance is influential but kinda shit.
I always thought in terms of quality it went
Wolfe > Tolkien > Vance >>>>>>> Martin

>>11277146
It's Martin>>>>>>>>>>the rest these days, sweetie.

>>11277151
Well none are writing anymore so...

>>11277121
>Vance is influential but kinda shit
But I loved the way Vance wrote, the amount he wrote, the unparalleled wit and ingenious the customs and characteristics of the races he came up with, how elegant his prose was before I had yet to read moby-dick or Wolfe or McCarthy.
Objectively why would he be considered kinda shit?

>>11273677
First Law is good and Kingkiller is shite.

I tried to read Sanderson but his books have too much brown or tan people and nobility being deamonized.

>>11277045
Vance always wrote for money, but they're not shit. I don't even know what you're talking about.

>>11277194
>nobility being deamonized.
Modern fantasy authors are really shit at portraying nobility.

>>11277245
>but they're not shit.
Vance is kinda shit.

>>11276998
croaker just stops chronicling whenever they do really sadistic shit

>>11277280
Maybe, but I doubt he himself is sadist, and I wasn't talking about company as a whole originally.

>>11269172
The characters. There are maybe a couple of good characters in it, but they are so minor I can't even remember them.
>"you've terrorized us for multiple lifetimes, but now I totally get it"
Is basically the punchline.

>>11271238
Someone should make a proper chart like that one. It should feature at least one book: Age of Myth, the number of people that falls for the meme is astounding.

>>11277372
>4.2 on goodreads

It's good, dumbass.

>>11277391
hate to be that guy, but have you seen the goodreads community?

>>11277434
He's obviously being sarcastic.
I agree with you otherwise, the GR community is made up of 30 year old crazy cat ladies. And lots of ugly lesbians.

Bought a tiny little copy of Beyond Apollo yesterday from a used bookstore. This copy was printed in 1975 and the previous owner of it had kept in int their collection for all that time and never opened it. The front cover has no crease on it, the pages are all pristine, while the outer edge has yellowed over time. Immediately brought to mind /shelf/ threads here and how many of those books are going to end up in used bookstores with someone surprised they were never opened.

>>11277479
And /lit/tards taking screencaps and posting them on an Ascian Obedience Enforcing Bulletin Board

Do you guys recommend the Culture series?

>>11277372
Age of Myths was pretty bad, but Age of Swords takes the fucking crown.

>>11277194

>>11277618
>/pol/
no

>>11277621
>his books have too much brown or tan people

>>11277643
Yes, and?

Someone open a new thread already.

>>11277479
There's this one old lady that reads the Tamer books that cracks me up every time. Every new book and she's there commenting about how the book is so good and the MC is awesome. I wonder if she really is a granny or just some creep pretending to be one liking male smut books.

>>11277553

>>11277688
Here she is. Apparently she reviews every single book she reads, probably to help with her Alzheimer's or something. Her reviews aren't actually bad, but I think her ratings are a bit inflated as she gives such good ratings to obviously bad books.

>>11277729
Wolfe looks like he makes really bad jokes and then laughs like Ron Swanson

>>11277735
do you R E P S

Liveship got discussed upthread, should I go back and read the Fitz books set before it first?

Think I read the first and then stopped

>>11273190
>>11273576
Reminder Lovecraft is the best horror author of the 20th century.

>>11277988
Burroughs is

>>11278024
Recommend some of Burroughs's horror work.

>>11277817
Been quite a while since I've see this

>>11275277
Maybe it's supposed to be the grave of Elijah Baley, though he dies in the interim between this book an the next.

>>11276577
Rendezvous with Rama?

One of you faggots make a new thread already.

New Thread
>>11278212
>>11278212
>>11278212

>>11278193
>>11278219
ahaha newfag

>>11278303
I already made the thread... when I posted "new Thread" that popped it
>what is coincidence

>>11278303
>>11278462
I'm too much of a newfag to know what the fuck y'all are arguing about