/lit/ - Literature

>>11190707
He's a clown

Seeing as Evola is influenced by Guenon, de Maistre and Stirner.
Guenon through Andre Breton, and Stirner directly, are off-shoots of Hegel and, so, Kant.
Joseph de Maistre is heavily influenced by Edmund Burke and, so, David Hume.

Pretty high chance Evola is a retard given his intellectual influences.

His surface level critique of cultural decline and vulgarization and are somewhat appealing to me, but I ultimately his critiques have their foundation in wacky hyperborean UFO flying Arctic Aryan lunacy. I think, if you are going to go the reactionary route, he is worth being familiar with and some of his rhetorical attacks on modernity are ok, but you can get the same elsewhere at a higher quality without the baggage, and even if you wanted that baggage you can get that too elsewhere at a higher standard.

This may be slightly unkind, but he reminds me of a tinfoil hat version of Stefan Molyneux, who like Evola, is just educated enough in a great deal of topics to have an opinion on nearly everything, but non of it is particularly original, insightful or deep. A hair's breadth away from being a full blown con-man.

>>11190717
Can anyone tell me why chad's stance is literally structurally impossible to make without twisting a body part the wrong way?

>>11190855
>Evola
>A hair's breadth away from being a full blown con-man.

No. I'm getting really tired of the numale "his ideas sound like silly conspiracy theories I've been conditioned by the noosphere to reject out of hand because I can't think for myself" """"""""""""""""'argument"""""""""""""""""" against Evola

>>11190901
>seething

>>11190824
>Stirner directly, are off-shoots of Hegel and, so, Kant.
>Joseph de Maistre is heavily influenced by Edmund Burke and, so, David Hume.
problem?

>>11190824
>Hegel, Kant, Hume aren't much of an intellectual pedigree

end yourself

>>11190995
>>11190986
>Epistemology prior to ethics or political philosophy
>Inherent intelligibility of experience or rational thought

>>11191003
nigger what

>>11191003

>>11191006
The first is the underlying structure to Hegel, Kant and Hume

The second is their claim regarding their epistemological content, from which all their knowledge is derived

>>11191003
>>11191018
pozbrain

>>11191025
?

>>11190855
>but I ultimately his critiques have their foundation in wacky hyperborean UFO flying Arctic Aryan lunacy.

The ultimate irony is that it was actually in fact Indo-Europeans living in hyperborean regions who composed the vedas thousands of years ago, but the ultimate teachings of the vedas themselves transcend any type of categorization or differentiation such as race and culture and that when people get hung up on the racial aspect of this it prevents them from viscerally understanding the deeper metaphysical truths involved.

Was this you, OP? Are you A/B testing to find out which board has better literature discussion?
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/172397740/

>>11190901
"Con" does not stand for "conspiracy" you absolute inbred Arab, it stands for "confidence".

>>11191069
Who cares?

>>11190883
thatsthejoke.jpg

>>11191051
And you can get all of that from better people than Evola.

>>11191090
How is that a joke?

>>11191003
>denying the inherent intelligibility of thought

you soft or something faggot? anti-correlationism is one thing, but denying the intelligibility flat out is self-refuting

>>11190883
OUCH!

Read Spengler and then Northrop Frye. Skip the fashy horseshit.

>>11191100
Hume’s Is-Ought problem: That oughtness is not a kind of isness; and that oughtness cannot be rationally derived from isness. This second proposition presupposes the first, and so, both propositions are false as, given an intentionality, oughtness is a kind of isness.

Hence, if one denies the rationality of intention - of aboutness - and denies that oughtness can be derived from isness, then nothing can be rationally derived, at least where a logical inference is made towards an end.
That is, to the denier of intention, no logical inference can be made towards any end, for example, understanding the world, wholly or in its particulars, or creating an argument about the distinction between isness and oughtness.

>>11191123
The problem of rationalism is its denial of intention, prior to its knowledge.

>>11190855
This is so wrong. There is no "UFO Aryan" lunacy in Julius Evola's writings. He was well respected by many conservative-reactionary thinkers and lectured to their associates. I suggest you actually read the material before you pontificate. Though, I can't blame you too much: you're probably mostly familiar with his character through the lens of esoteric Hitlerist looneys.

>>11190707
His writings are best oriented toward disenchanted moderns who think something is wrong but don't exactly know what. His magnum opus, Revolt Against the Modern World, is a creative interpretation of history, myths and social institutions, but above all it is a work about what life could be, as opposed to what it is now, and how various historical peoples have achieved reaching that "could be" and in what ways they have honored what they saw there. Though there is perhaps too much creative method in Julius Evola to care to accuse him of historical inaccuracy, aside from accusations of romanticism he was absolutely correct that historical peoples were much more pious than we are generally led to believe.

There are more subtleties to the thought than one could really dive all into in one thread reply. For all the important reasons people care about Evola, the fact is that his metaphysics are not one of them: so in short, he believed the same spirit that spawned Rome, and the same northern, Ghibelline spirit of the later Teutonic Rome were essential to the West and were at a danger of being destroyed. He thought that since there were no more institutions to keep the Italians in chains, you might say in a De Maistrean manner, the Italian people could only rely on instinct and prejudice to revive the spirit. This is the most controversial and racial side of his thought. It is precisely what he used to argue against miscegenation, particularly at a time when Italy was developing colonies in Africa along with other European nations.

As for racial instinct, he believed this was the fundamental meaning of the war and that war would put the Italian people in such an existential place that an opening would be made. Perhaps this is the real meaning of the Ride the Tiger ethos of finding one's true will, or perhaps the work as a whole was an admittance of defeat. Despite all of this, he didn't actually believe the Italian nationality was in-and-of-itself important: it was only important as far as what literally fabricated the regularity of the phenotype was a long history of feudal ties and loyal family ties, formed around institutions that were inseparable from so-called Tradition; this is even further indicated by his respect for Native Americans and diatribes against the "white epidermis." Whether you believe ethical preference, proclivities and behavioral tendencies have something to with racial instinct is another matter in itself. Perhaps it was his way to present a case for conservatism in a time of racial science.

So much for Evola.

PSA: The second volume of Introduction to Magic is being translated by Inner Traditions, and is due for release in February of next year!

>>11191204
Awesome dude thank you

>>11190707
He set me on the path to self improvement
So even if I dont agree with everything he says I still have a deep respect for him

I feel like its become a bit of a meme to hate on Evola now? Dont know why.
Its obvious none of the haters have actually read one of his books they probably just read an article on some website.
I believe Evola will go down as one of the great minds of the 20th century. Nobody said you have to be right about everything or a shining example of a real human bean in order to be a great thinker.

>>11191196
No he is dumb as fuck. Eovla is a meme.

>>11191257
It's how the public opine sways. There was a time when people practically deified the man. The crowd responding to that wave with "le mystic man xdd" has now taken hold. They'll come a time when he's back in fashion and we'll roll our eyes again

>>11191267
Here's your (You), reprobate

>>11191257
His (((wikipedia))) is completely pozzed. Just compare his page now and 3 years ago. His metaphysics and his associations with the Italian fascists and the SS are presented in a more fair light. It's complete bullshit what the (((editors))) did to it. See for yourself!
>https://web.archive.org/web/20150323040652/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola

>>11191267
>>11191302
Why does he inspire so much vitriol?

>>11191257
>I believe Evola will go down as one of the great minds of the 20th century.

The most valuable aspects of his thought were themselves better expounded by Guenon

>>11191302
What particularly annoys me is the part about rape. It literally omits words and avoids sentences. The whole passage is him talking about how despite man's feeling that he has possessed a woman by lusting after her and even raping her, that is always a delusion that they are always passive with respect to what fascinates them

Never trust Wikipedia for anything

>>11191302
lol wow

>>11190986
>Joseph de Maistre is heavily influenced by Edmund Burke

Tbh this a bit of a meme. Burke was a 1688 Conservative Whig, he believed in preserving the traditional settlement of 1688 based in Protestant Christianity.

Maistre was an Ultramontaine Catholic who basically believes the Pope should rule like an absolute monarch across the entirety of Europe. He agreed with Burke only on a surface-level.

>>11191880
>believes the Pope should rule like an absolute monarch across the entirety of Europe

Imagine Pope Francis as the emperor of European Union...

>>11192077
The world would almost certainly be a better place

>>11190707
Pure trash

/lit/, compare this reponse
>>11191196
to these
>>11191267
>>11192320

>>11190855
come on, dont compare the 2
molymeme is literal autism 80 IQ incel cuck

>>11192290
better for Muslims, certainly

>>11193645
Molyneux is the greatest philosopher alive today.

>>11190707
List needs some Guenon desu.

>>11190855
What the fuck you've never read Evola stop LARPing
How the fuck is Evola even remotely like Molyneux? Evola was anti-capitalist and anti-materialist
Moly hasnt got a spiritual bone in his body, he is judaified to the core
He's also a fucking retard who warps facts to suit his world view
For a guy who coined the term "Not An Argument" he sure makes a lot of non-arguments
Case in point:
https://youtu.be/yA2lCBJu2Gg
>40 minutes of ad hominem
https://youtu.be/5DCQRcFNIG8
>ew spooky jackbooks and statism!! the free market is ethical, you can choose to buy a salad at mcdonalds!!
He's a fucking nut job and I pity anyone who still follows this guy.
t. former lolbertarian

>>11191031
you are a half-wit pseud and your qualms with the order of their phil priorities is embarassing sign you don’t know anything at all
>>11191051
there was no Hyperborean civilization, the Aryans formed in the 3-5th millenia BCE thousands of years after the glaciers melted and mammoth steppe receded. there was no horse breeding in 12,000 BCE around the mammoth steppe and there was no Vedas. Vedas were written between 3-1000 BCE by horse breeding Caucasoids of the Pontic-Caspian/Uke steppe; some of them were closely related to the Bellbeaker and Corded ware folk (the direct ancestors of the Germanics and Nords), most were closer to some tribes in the Balto-slavic, Aegean, Iranic plateau and Eurasian steppe today, the Andronovo and Shintasha cultures are the closest analogues to the Aryans we have, not Hyperboreans. athe story is complete fiction mixing the old mammoth steppe era, pre-literate and pre-domestication of the horse, with much later neolithic and bronze age history.

also the varnas are racial castes.
>>11191103
read Adorno and Baudrillard too! but mostly read Spengler and Heidegger
>>11191196
Rome was founded by swarthy Italics not by Teutonics or Germanics. The gothic and vandal admixture in S. Europe is latecoming. Catholicism has absolutely nothing to do with old Rome and the “traditions” of Italy are a farcical collage of Greek, Jewish and German ideals.

Everyone in this thread needs to read population genetics studies and learn to into physiognomy and geological history. Would save immense time.

Also Aryans are a racial group and modern germans aren’t Aryan and neither are Pajeets.

>>11191880
>Maistre was an Ultramontaine Catholic who basically believes the Pope should rule like an absolute monarch across the entirety of Europe


how do i into joseph de maistre?

>>11195587
>old rome
>jewish traditions
HURR DURR
judaism didnt exist when rome was founded

Evola's memes are great, and if I have learned anything in the past few years its to follow the memes,
So yeah I have not read anything by him, but I'll get around to it.

>>11195587
Teutonic Rome is the Holy Roman Empire you dunce.

Varna literally means "color, quality, essence" in Sanskrit, further demonstrated by the extension of its use in all domains, so nice try.

>>11190883
it isn't the wrong way for his superior genetics you virgin

>>11195643
Start with his essays
Handbook For Right Wing Youth is a good collection of short essays, although the title is retarded
A Traditionalist Confronts Fascism is another good one, it has his Orientations essay (my favorite) and includes two very interesting interviews he conducted
One with Corneliu Codreanu of the Iron Guard, and another with Count Coudenhove-Kalergi (the same one who founded the Pan-European movement, grand daddy of the EU).

>>11190717
>runs away from his own principles
>becomes a muslim
>marries an egyptian woman
F*CKING BASED!!!

>>11195669
And how did Rene Guenon run away from his own principles?

>>11195677
He gave up on the west and went to find another tradition?

>>11195679
He never declared his loyalty to the west. He even wrote articles attacking the notion that the west was the seat of Tradition, whereas it was properly seated in the north. His writings on the west are all caustic, critical and condescending.

>>11195699
Its not something you have to declare, you have loyalty to your people whether you like it or not
Despite the west being degenerate and soulless Evola never abandoned his people and truly lived by his principles to the end

>>11195716
Hahahah

>The traditional world knew “nationalities,” ethnicities and races only as natural facts, devoid of that specific political value. . . . They represented a primary material differentiated by hierarchies and subject to a superior principle of political sovereignty. . . . [T]hese were often only the effect of a long formative process determined over centuries by a political center and its loyalist and feudal bonds. . . . [I]f it were no longer homelands and nations that united or divided, but rather ideas; if the decisive thing were not sentimental and irrational adhesion to a collectivizing myth, but a system of loyal, free, and strongly personalized connections. (from Ride The Tiger, Dissolution in the Social Realm)

I don't think Evola cared much for the abstract value of western "people."

Friendly reminder that if you think the West has gone off the rails, as it were, then the true tradition to follow is Catholicism.

>>11195749
I can cherrypick quotes out of context too.

Thus, racism invigorates and renders tangible the concept of tradition; itmakes the individual get used to observing in our ancestors not just a series of the more or less illustrious “dead,” but rather the expression of something still alive in ourselves and to which we are tied in our interior.We are the carriers of a heritage that has been transmitted to us and that we need to transmit– and in this spirit it is something going beyond time, something indicating,what we called elsewhere, ‘the eternal race.’(Eléments,p.31)

In other wordsrace is at a same time a heritage and a collective substrate. Irrespective of the fact that it expresses itself among all people, it is only among few that it attains its perfect realization and it is precisely there that the action and the significance of the individual and the personality can assert themselves.(Eléments,p.34)

>>11195651
the HRE is a phantasm and never governed Italy consistently or with any great cultural influence. I have no idea why something which wasn’t established until a thousand years after Christ is considered a “tradition” for Italians when it effectively collapsed in the 18th century
>varna means color
yes because the races which constituted the varnas are different colors
>>11195699
>properly seated in the North
but there’s nothing in the North and hasn’t been for 12,000 years. The greatest religious traditions are all from MENA and India or China

>>11195798
That text could very well speak of Africans and noble members of that race.

>>11190883
Chad is a post structuralist
Physiology bends to his will to power

>>11195798
I could point to the fact that the other quote was actually published later, but I think it is congruent with the other quote. Evola had a peculiar idea of what race was about and believed it was the carrier of the values embedded in past institutions. See >>11191196
Also compare:
>"When it comes to this point [where civilization is no longer ordered "from above"], the only forces that can be relied upon are those of the blood, which still carries atavistically within itself, through race and instinct, the echo and the trace of the departed higher element that had been lost; it is only in this way that the "racist" thesis in defense of the purity of the blood can be validly upheld. . . . [W]e must never mistake the formative element for the element that is formed, nor the conditioning for the conditioned factor. (Revolt, 57-58)"

>>11195822
>yes because the races which constituted the varnas are different colors
Not the reason.

>the HRE is a phantasm and never governed Italy consistently or with any great cultural influence. I have no idea why something which wasn’t established until a thousand years after Christ is considered a “tradition” for Italians when it effectively collapsed in the 18th century
Maybe. I don't really feel like debating the point. It's important to note Evola wasn't much for historical accuracy. The spirit of Italy was Roman to him not because they were all of the same physical race.

>but there’s nothing in the North and hasn’t been for 12,000 years. The greatest religious traditions are all from MENA and India or China
I think you've mistaken the postulate of the so-called "transcendent unity of religions." Besides, the symbolism of the north is multi-dimensional in Evola and Guenon. If there was a northern abode, and it really was the bearer of the religious forms later dispersed throughout the world, to them it would merely be a fortiori and another symbol, just like all other phenomena to them.

>>11195887
>>11195900
Just read his Synthesis of the Doctrine of Race
He explains his view on this in full detail
He didnt deny biological racism, it was still important to him, he simply thought there were better qualities to judge people by
Race to him was first and foremost a spiritual concept before it was biological
He considered Otto Weininger an "aryan soul" or "Ehrenarier" even though he was Jewish.
Basically he thought there was no value in being white if you didnt have the soul of a european.
That doesnt mean he didnt believe in biological race at all. He simply valued the biological aspect less.

>>11195587
>you are a half-wit pseud and your qualms with the order of their phil priorities is embarassing sign you don’t know anything at all

Then explain what I don't know - or accept that an epistemological priority will favour a particular interpretation of ethics and politics.

>>11195587
>there was no Hyperborean civilization,

Sure, let's just totally ignore the many dozens of passages from the Vedas that unequivocally describe a polar environment. I guess it just happened to be a coincidence that they perfectly describe things like the movements of the sun and stars etc.

Why was he so into hinduism?

I must be colorblind and can't really tell the difference in colors on your infograph. Please use differing shades as well as colors.

>>11197427
closest surviving religion to the indo-european tradition

>>11190707
>start with his worst and most inaccurately sourced work
why

>>11190707
Why do I get the feeling the person that made this chart hasn't read 90% of these

heres a better list

revolt against the modern world > men among the ruins > ride the tiger > whatever you want

>>11191257
>I believe Evola will go down as one of the great minds of the 20th century.
hahahaa
This is the single most retarded post in this thread. Consider getting off the internet for a week or two.

>>11197886
starting with revolt is a bad idea
its very heavy reading and can be hard to comprehend if you dont have a baseline understanding of wtf he's talking about
better to start with his essays first, a traditionalist confronts fascism or a handbook for right wing youth are both good
then men among the ruins (as it is an expansion on his orientations essay which is featured in both books above) or meditation on the peaks, and then read the other
then go onto his harder stuff like revolt and ride the tiger

>>11195716
>imagine being this spooked
I've never really understood the principle behind the nationalism. You could be born anywhere in the world, poor or rich, christian, muslim or hindu, your skin colour could be black, white or yellow, but still in every place you would be taught "You are X, you belong to country X just because you were born here". The idea of nationalism is quite fake, being born around xviii and xix century to fuel rivalry and fool people into considering themselves some specific group, French or English, instead of taking a broader look. You don't own "your" people anything.

>>11198355
mate this is unironically the view of a 13 year old going through his enlightened atheist phase - if you honestly don't have even the most basic understanding of nationalism and it's value and purpose then I think you're a lost cause

>>11199327
>its value and purpose
destabilising Europe causing millions of deaths?

>>11198355
kys

>>11190883
The first of these memes was "the virgin walk" which is pretty much how most people walk. Then someone created "the Chad stride" or something that was impossible and ridiculous. The subsequent memes that kind of miss the joke of the original just use the Chad template.
>inb4 'virgin detected'