/lit/ - Literature

>>11088312
>I don't understand the intricacies of human experience therefore what I'm reading must be incorrect or at least flawed

>>11088312
>the most famous, celebrated play of all time doesn't make sense
Good luck in your academic pursuits anon you'll really change the way we think about Hamlet

>>11088312

>oh i wish god didn't make it so you can't kill yourself
>oh what happens after death? who knows lol
>oh no claudius is praying so he'll go to heaven if i kill him

>>11088312
The classic bait and switch my man.
Also to help hide his feelings and fears after seeing the ghost of his dead father and being told his uncle killed him.
Or maybe he actually did go a bit crazy.

>>11088337
>>11088334
But i really don't understand how playing crazy would help hamlet with his revenge in any way, and it doesn't. If anything it makes it harder

>>11088502
Did you read the play? He's playing at pretending in order to make him appear as less of threat towards Claudius and to be able to more accurately guage Claudius' innocence and later intention/motive etc.

>>11088502
It helped to keep him alive

>>11088502
Read the play and then maybe you'll understand, fagit.

>>11088337
There are academics who admit Hamlet has plot holes, you pseud.

>>11089220
which academics?

>>11088337
Not a very good argument anon. Guardians of the Galaxy is the best, most celebrated action movie of all time, but it’s still a terrible heap of pungent turd.

>>11088312
Because he was crazy

>>11088360
Act crazy long enough, and you become crazy.

>>11089234
>the opinions of plebs is the same as the opinions of the cultivated elite for centuries

>>11089225
Not that anon but there is famously a controversy over how old Hamlet is. The graveyard scene suggests 'thirty', but it doesn't make sense for him to be in university, and people have raised doubts over whether 'I have been sexton here, man and boy, for thirty years' should be taken as such or 'I have been sixteen here; man and boy for thirty years' - to which there are further problems and counterarguments.
Harold Bloom dismissed the debate by claiming Hamlet is "both the youngest and oldest soul", for what it's worth.

What's always puzzled me is the discrepancies in time passed since Hamlet Senior died. In Act 1 Scene 2, Hamlet says:
>But two months dead: nay, not so much, not two:
The in the play scene, he rhetorically exaggerates to:
>and my father died within these two hours.
To which - and here's the puzzle - Ophelia responds:
>Nay, 'tis twice two months, my lord.

We must either accept that a full two months or more have passed since the beginning, or that Hamlet already has lost his conception of time.

>>11089267

>>11089298
Neither of those are plot holes. Neither of them are even mistakes, they are merely ambiguities in a play famous for its ambiguities.

>>11089298
why is it odd for someone to be that old at University?

Or we accept that Hamlet is using rhetorical exaggeration about the time, to prove something or test someone.

>>11089298
the play was actually a dream, and in a dream each time you check the time it changes

hamlet wakes up at the end (spoilers)

>>11089375
It's not weird that he's in university, it's weird that he didn't inherit the throne at 30 years old (a third anon)

>>11089402
this is where the play becomes a classic
no one can agree on the specifics and academics love to argue
voila!

>>11089402
"He that hath killed my king and whored my mother,
Popped in between th' election and my hopes,
Thrown out his angle for my proper life …"

The Danish Monarchy was elected/nominated. Claudius/Gertude won it.

>>11089291
>logic depends on economic and/or social status
There is no cure for brainletism.

>>11089591
>logic isn't normative

>>11089591
>literary criticism
>logic

>>11089591
>logic depends on economic and/or social status
That was never stated nor implied, nor has anything to do with my point. Don't call others brainlets if you can't parse a simple argument that some people are better at some things than others.

>>11089630
“It’s famous therefore it’s good” is a conclusion and a retarded one at that.

>>11089647
Better at what, exactly?

>>11089225
T.S. Eliot has an essay where he says it's underdeveloped.

>>11089387
This is what capeshit film has done to the modern American mind.

>>11089652
In this example it's that academics, cultural elites, and great artists are a better judge of the quality of a work of art than the an average person.

>>11089683
T.S. is a shit literary critic though. Anyone else?

>>11089683
Underdeveloped =/= plot holes. You have yet to give a single example of a plot hole or of an academic who claims they exist.

>>11089698
and it's beautiful.

>>11089699
Not that anon but remember that moment in 4chan history where some random anon discredited every Pynchon academic by “solving” TCoL49? Academics are mostly hacks and their opinios are not law, they obfuscate to keep their jobs.

>>11089756
what was there to solve and thow did people know he solved it accurately ?

>>11089773
He solved the issue of Oedipa’s madness. I’ll just post the link since I won’t do it justice...
>>/lit/thread/S667543

>>11089793
Man post quality really used to be higher

>>11089709
jesu christo en el cielo, mein gott. i can't tell if this guy is legitimately a chimp or just doing reactions for his "channel". it's probably a bit of both.

so this is the public now, huh.

>>11089818
Truly the case. Sometimes it’s fun to browse warosu and revel in old threads

>>11089826
desu senpai if you think you're any better I've got bad news for you

your post is written in the most repulsive way possible

>>11089683
Did you actually read the criticism? It's horseshit. First off, it's a play, not a novel. What makes the greatest plays are their ability to be played multiple ways while still striking the same chord.

>>11089311
Perception is a habit driven by our choices. When we make something important to our perception, it grows larger in our mind. Those who adopt a conspiracy theory will eventually be consumed by it. Hamlet does exactly that. All of his actions are the following of confirmation bias, and they are presented in such a manner. We are given the information that he is right, but we are shown that he is right for the wrong reasons. Instead of plotting a slow and careful revenge that places him on his father's throne, in his mad grief he destroys the kingdom.

>>11088347
>oh no claudius is praying so he'll go to heaven if i kill him
This bit is great, by the way. Hamlet chooses to play God and attempts to take the power of Judgement into his own hands by delaying what would have been a just killing. This eventually leads to his own death and, most ironically of all, if he had killed Claudius in that moment he would have gone to hell, since he follows up his monologue with
>My words fly up, my thoughts remain below
>And words without thought, ne'er to heaven go

>>11089267
duuuuuude, deep

>>11089901
Just because something ordinary has a rhythm to it, doesn't make it an attempt to be profound. Just because something true is boring, doesn't make it any less true.

>>11089952
calm down

>>11090001
Just because I sound angry, doesn't mean I'm not calm. Just because I use a lot of words, doesn't mean I care. Just because you're replying to me, doesn't mean I'm going to keep going.

>>11089952
Regardless, it reads like a facebook post. This is especially the case because it doesn't make any sense - "crazy" does not have a concrete scientific definition, and you certainly can't will yourself in to having a mental disorder.

>>11090032
you can because you can lose your equilibrium and then have many consecutive days of poor mental health causing a disorder to form that’s semi-permanent and then dysfunctional circuits in the brain are calcified and you become insane

>>11090028
>>11090037
why do you do this

>>11089375
Average age of matriculation into university in 1600 England was 17. The play is actually quite beautiful if you read Hamlet as a mature young man in the 17-21 year old range, I think Hamlet at 30-35 like is traditionally thought is less affecting than Hamlet as a fresh young man.

>>11090037
Again, "insane" is not scientific terminology either so it's difficult to discern what you're hinting at. Overall, what you're suggesting is quite abstract and is unlikely to function in the way you are presenting it. It's more likely that not taking care of one's basic human needs is in fact the cause of any mental health in the scenario you are describing, which may be related to "days of poor mental health" you're mentioning but is in fact a more proximal cause of future mental deficiencies.

>>11090091
cause of any -loss- of mental health, rather

>>11090049
Just because it isn't funny, doesn't mean I'm not laughing. Just because I already have some pepe's, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more. Just because the format is simple, doesn't mean it's not a test. Just because I'm out of ideas, doesn't mean I'm not going to keep going.

>Hamlet thread
>Zero mention of Book VII, Part 2 of the 1983 Code of the Roman Catholic Church, it's 1917 derivation, or the state of affairs of Church trials prior to 1917
>nor of the common thread of the six categories of proofs required
>Typical

>>11090119
Go to bed Tom, you’re getting old.