/lit/ - Literature

For the most basic and broadly-accepted entry point for any sort of Buddhism, check out the Dhammapada. It's only about 80 pages long and contains a lot of essential Buddhist ideas.

Beyond that, you're going to have to think about what it is that you want to learn. Basic doctrines? Practical life advice? More advanced philosophical ideas? Just very lame "scholarly" knowledge? etc.

>>11012292
Reading your post again though, you'd probably like to read What The Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula. It's basically "Buddhism for Dummies" from a Theravada monk.

ill give you a bump

>>11012370
Good post.
Where did you go after the first book?
Why are there so many offshoots?

>>11012292
Buddhism as Philosophy - Mark Siderits

>>11012292
i think you have to first choose between theravada or mahayana/vajrayana, the literature is quite different
the dhammapada is pretty good in general tho

memes aside, Evola is always a great read, and /leftypol/ shouldn't be too mad as this as it's not one of his political books

Jesus Christ is the way, the TRUTH, and the life.

Buddhism is vanity that will send you into the pit. It's a doctrine of demons. Seek the Lord for the real truth over these matters.

>>11014399
Evola didn't understand Buddhism. I'm not going after Evola in any demeaning sense either - no one from his generation really got it.

can you guys sell my on a good edition/translation of the pali canon? or at least the Majjhima Nikaya is the whole canon is too big to buy

>>11014435
what did he get wrong?

>>11014399
>Evola is always a great read,
You actually believe this don't you?

This is the best breakdown, lots of primary texts excerpted as well.

>>11014463
I have this. It's very indepth. Better for learning about individual topics than a brief overview

>>11014462
why wouldn't i believe it? it's empirically true

Dogen - Shobogenzo
This is the basis for Soto Zen, the major from of zen in Japan. Frankly, you should probably look for an edition that includes commentary.

Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner
This is the most grounded, easy to understand explanation of zen imaginable. Warner's other books are also worth checking out.

Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright
About the scientific/neurological foundations for Buddhism.

Altered Traits by Daniel Goleman and Richard Davidson
Another book about the scientific basis for Buddhist meditation. Read Why Buddhism is True first - it's an easier read, and Altered Traits gets a little more in depth with the actual science.

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
This is kind of the modern classic primer for Zen Buddhism.

This Is It by Alan Watts
Watts was no zen master and he frankly gets talked up more than he should, but he's still critically important since he's basically the first western figure to get Buddhism right. His stuff is also very accessible.

Thich Nhat Hanh is the real deal, but his books can be a little light and shallow. Still, his stuff is on the right track.

Everyday Zen by Charlotte Joko Beck
I honestly haven't read this yet, but all the right people recommend it.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead
I'm not recommending this book because it has any philosophical value, but rather because it's so culturally significant, at least in western Buddhism, that you should probably have some awareness of it... especially so the drugged out hippie buddhists think you're legit

SN Goenka's books
This is also a little out of my realm, but Goenka is the key figure in modern Vipassana (a Burmese Theravada meditation practice), and he's definitely one of the more legit figures in Buddhism in recent history.

>>11014489
Remember, children: Never let Mahayanafags lie to you.
Hinayana is the only valid Buddhism

Shobogenzo by Dogen
This is the basis for Soto Zen, the major from of zen in Japan. Frankly, you should probably look for an edition that includes commentary.

Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner
This is the most grounded, easy to understand explanation of zen imaginable. Warner's other books are also worth checking out.

Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright
About the scientific/neurological foundations for Buddhism.

Altered Traits by Daniel Goleman and Richard Davidson
Another book about the scientific basis for Buddhist meditation. Read Why Buddhism is True first - it's an easier read, and Altered Traits gets a little more in depth with the actual science.

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
This is kind of the modern classic primer for Zen Buddhism.

This Is It by Alan Watts
Watts was no zen master and he frankly gets talked up more than he should, but he's still critically important since he's basically the first western figure to get Buddhism right. His stuff is also very accessible.

Thich Nhat Hanh is the real deal, but his books can be a little light and shallow. Still, his stuff is on the right track.

Everyday Zen by Charlotte Joko Beck
I honestly haven't read this yet, but all the right people recommend it.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead
I'm not recommending this book because it has any philosophical value, but rather because it's so culturally significant, at least in western Buddhism, that you should probably have some awareness of it... especially so the drugged out hippie buddhists think you're legit

SN Goenka's books
This is also a little out of my realm, but Goenka is the key figure in modern Vipassana (a Burmese Theravada meditation practice), and he's definitely one of the more legit figures in Buddhism in recent history.

Buddha's Brain by Rick Hanson
I also haven't read this, but I just added it because it's another book on the scientific backing for Buddhism, and it's very well respected; it's also older than the ones above I recommend

good books on how the Buddha was just actually re-vitalizing the vedic tradition, Buddhism isn't really a thing the Buddha ever spoke about or taught, and everything after King Ashoka was a mistake?

or any books dismissing this as wrong, either is fine, thanks

>>11014514
Honestly, rather than getting bogged down in the history, I recommend looking at what people are actually practicing. Obviously Theravada is older than Mahayana, but if you actually look at the ways people practice, Soto Zen (a Mahayana school) and Vipassana (a Theravada school) both take things to their absolute basics of Buddhist meditation, and as such are very, very similar, despite being historically distant. Likewise, esoteric Tibetan Buddhism (Mahayana) and Cambodian Buddhism (Theravada) both add all sorts of weird mystical bullshit (though when you get past that, Tibetan dzogchen is reported to be one of the most effective meditation practices), while Soka Gakkai basically treat Buddhism like Christianity, meeting once a week to pray and meditate to Buddha.

If you're really interested in understanding the roots of Vedic practice, you should really study/research Jainism. It's older, it's closer to its own roots, and seeing its similarities to Buddhism should give you some idea of the original Vedic perspective.

>>11014514
Get a load off this fool, so attached to being right. PLEASE PLEASE I NEED BUDDHISM TO BE WRONG REEEEEEE I WANT TO BE ADDICTED TO SENSUAL PLEASURE

An Introduction to Buddhism by Harvey

>>11014529
yes, i'm already practicing samatha-vipassana, but i'm interested in the history, which doesn't really matter for the practice because the practice doesn't tell you to believe anything, just to investigate and how to do it and to come to your own conclusions

>>11014549
i'm interested in the history, a book proving that theory wrong is also fine, can you provide one?

Not to go full nietzsche but isn't buddhism really life denying? Like fuck if your main goal in life is not to have anything that's kinda.... sad innit?

>>11014615
That's not what Buddhism is about.

>>11014621
It is though.

>>11014638
No.

>>11014657
no u

>>11014657
>>11014621
That indepth criticism tells me you don't know enough about buddhism to refute the statement but you hope someone else will?

>>11014615
>>11014638
The main goal of Buddhism is Awakening. To go forth into awakening it means you shed a lot of things. Things like sensual pleasures for instance, things like films, literature and what not are distractions that fuel delusion and take you out of the present moment. Basically the idea is by not craving you will not experience dukkha (often poorly mistranslated as suffering). dukkha isnt just suffering, its anxiety, guilt, the feeling that something isn't quite right, depression etc.

The Four Noble Truths are 1) There is dukkha,
2) Craving/Clinging is the cause of dukkha 3) The Cessation of dukkha is possible 4) The way past Dukkha is through following the Noble Eightfold path. People often misconstrue Dukkha to be just the large things in life (due to said poor translations), when really its as little as having to clean when you'd rather be reading a book. Isn't that unpleasant? That's dukkha. So engaging in sensual pleasures is 'bad' not because they are inherently evil but because they make you more prone to clinging/craving and dukkha.

Of course, Awakening is the grand goal of the path, hardly anyone ever gets there. It doesn't mean that you have to do an all or nothing thing with the path. All of the Buddhas teachings can be thought of as guidelines for living dukkha free. Not following them doesn't have moral implications in most cases, it simply means you'll experience dukkha.

Accepting that, you can engage in sensual pleasures, drugs, sex and what ever else. It just means you will experience dukkha.

>>11014674
No. One of the key aspects of Buddhism is experiencing life as fully and intensely as possible. It basically observes that we're not living or experiencing life fully because we're preoccupied with our own illusions, rather than really living and experiencing in the moment. Buddhism is all about life.

>>11014727
No. Nibbana is nothingness.

You can pretend you don't know what I meant to score a retarded semantic point but really that's just retarded

>>11014804
>O bhikkhus, what is the Absolute (Asaṃkhata, Unconditioned)? It is, O bhikkhus, the extinction of desire (rāgakkhayo) the extinction of hatred (dosakkhayo), the extinction of illusion (mohakkhayo). This, O bhikkhus, is called the Absolute.
doesn't sound like nothingness to me

>>11012292
>LIKE I DIDNT EVEN DESIRE IT FROM THE START DUDE
My sides. Religion for the weak of mind. Hurdles to your desire is integral to your growth as human being. Creative solutions to complex problems have allowed humanity to conquer nature and its own dark nature. We . Do you like Cholera and Sabre-Tooth tigers? Thank your ancestors who had the balls to never give up and keep on looking for a better way to live. You are a parasite who has been gifted the opportunity to live in a paradise compared to what was the world of 10 000 years ago. Soft fucks like you would have been boipucci to a band of roving bandits. Great men sacrificed much to create a better world for those who will follow. Planted a tree that they will never feel the shade of. That is our duty. And you will just close your eyes and pretend because you do not have the grit to keep on going.

>>11015037
Greek child future reference, that's cool i was just playing games with millions of people involved good sport lad. (philistine). I'm a 25 year old aussie btw get triggered idiot.

>>11015037
Yeah no they sacrificed for themselves
Why do omegas always do this complete submission to alpha males and then use it to shit on others?

>you are so weak you don't even care about the ideal i put up to fix my failed life
Take a huge step back and look at how much of a faggot you are

>>11015047
>Yeah no they sacrificed for themselves

did you actualy fall for animphiric geunon sacred violence dawkinsian memes, or did you just admit to the accusations on the largest stage possible?

>>11015037
>>11015046
>>11015047
>>11015052
Stop shitting up threads with inane dribble and start reading some books.

>>11015047
>submission to Alpha males
I dont know where you pulled that from? Please share your presuppositions this might be enlightening. Anyway that is a massive projection just so you know.

>>11015058
Fuckoff nigger if you have nothing else to add

>>11015064
>Great men sacrificed much to create a better world for those who will follow. Planted a tree that they will never feel the shade of. That is our duty. And you will just close your eyes and pretend because you do not have the grit to keep on going.
You don't know what projection means do you?

>>11015052
No I said they didn't hunt toothsabre tigers because they jerked themselves off to some hypothetic ideal society thousands of years into the future.

>>11015084
Oh my did you get your meaning of the term from a Buzzfeed article? Projection is the manner in which you interpret another's behaviour by placing that persons action in your own personal value structure. "Submission to alphas" was your own words. Your own connotation to what I stated as the Duty of Men. Tell me what type of underlying value structure do you possess to see the acts of men who changed the world as "Omegas submitting to Alphas"?

>>11015109
So will you just call any criticism projection? Are you literally insane? Where did I do anything that would give the assumption I'm projecting?

>to see the acts of men who changed the world as "Omegas submitting to Alphas"?
So you ARE retarded. I called your jerk off to men who plat trees yaddah yaddah submission to alphas to feel tough.

>And you will just close your eyes and pretend because you do not have the grit to keep on going.
By the way that my weak friend IS projection. It has nothing to do with the buddhist worldview.

>>11015123
Its obvious you do not get my meaning. Goodluck with your Buddhism my man. Hopefully one day you will grow out of this voluntary lobotomy.

>Buddha's last words were literally "be dilligent"
>Neckbeards somehow use Buddhism as an excuse to be detatch from the world as a whole and continue being disgusting NEETs

>>11015037

>>11012292

I'd recommend "Zen and Japanese Culture" by D. T. Suzuki. He does an excellent job in describing the core of philosophical Buddhism in a variety of ways to elicit a clear understanding of the Zen mindset and aesthetics.

>>11014514

Hinduism and Buddhism by Coomaraswamy

>>11014804
>Nibbana is nothingness.
lmao

>>11014804
You're dumb. Call it nirvana, you fucking spazz.

>>11014505
> give an actual reading list
> 0 replies

>>11015901
because it entry tier feel good hipster buddhism

>>11014434
Fuck off

>>11012292
Just a shame Western Canon blows the fuck out of this Eastern babble

>>11015901
>>11015911
yep, it's more of a cultural guide to california than to actual buddhism

i mean it's not terrible, but doesn't offer much

>>11015931
Nothing in the west is even comparable to the Vedas and Vedanta, try again pal

>>11015901
You learn 10 times more from reading primary texts tbqh, the only exceptions are ones that cite copiously from them and are really just compendiums of texts with commentaries (e.g. Bhikku Bodhi's books) or short intros that you read before moving onto the actual texts (Walpola Rahula's intro)

An actual reading list would look like

Some of Bodhi's books containing sections from the PC
Dhammapada
Heart Sutra
Diamond Sutra
Lotus Sutra
Visuddhimagga
Mūlamadhyamakakārikā
Prajñāpāramitā Sutras
Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra
Abhidharmakośakārikā
Shobogenzo

>>11015948
Hume revealed in a few decades what all of indian philosophy was trying to get at for 3000 years

>>11015993
Fucking LMAO, I would be amused to see you attempt to actually explain how. Also, eastern thought is not really philosophy, the best way to classify it as anything other than eastern thought is Metaphysics as Guenon does.

>>11012292
Try In the Buddha's Words and listen to some of Bhikku Bodhi's lectures

>>11016053
>It isn't philosophy, it's a branch of philosophy

>>11016053
>memed this hard
You swallowed the bait, friendo. It was a trap.

>>11015944
>>11015911
>>11015988
Bullshit, you've never read any of the books I just mentioned, clearly. Have fun with your pseudo-mystical bullshit.

Godard's Buddhist Bible (it was used by Jack Kerouac)

Shunryu Suzuki's Zen mind beginners mind (best intro to Zen, very easy to follow)

>>11016097
>I was just pretending to be retarded

It would be a funny bait if it weren't for the fact that there are dozens of people here who post that kind of stuff unironically, I couldn't even tell.

>>11016094
If you'd read Guenon you would know it isn't

I suggest the book by Garfield; Why Does Buddhism Matter? if you are well-versed in western philosophy. I also enjoy the book by Flanagan; The Boddhisattva's Brain which also leans a lot on prior learning but is slightly more accessible.

>>11016094
see
>>11015909

>>11016115
The bait was Guenon. You are lost. Hurr durr muh vedas. Fuck off retard. You realize Guenon was a new age hack right? So cucked he converted to Islam.

>>11016115
>If you'd read Guenon you would know it isn't
Yeah I am aware of traditionalist's retarded usage of the word

>>11016109

>recommends two books of 'muh shientific backing for buddhism'
>calls major Buddhist texts pseudo-mystical bullshit

It's like a parody at this point

>>11016132
If you think Guenon was new-age you have no idea what that term means. If you are actually triggered by the idea of someone becoming a Sufi I have only pity for you.

>>11016137
They're right

>>11016148
>peddling perennial garbage in my /lit/

>>11016148
>uses word wrong
>nu uh everyone else is wrong
Lol. Tard.

>>11016138
Maybe I went overboard with emphasizing the scientific books, but I think it's very worthwhile for understanding this stuff.

I do have a strong bias for zen. I also think a lot of the esoteric Tibetan texts are bullshit. The sutras you mentioned are obviously foundational, but they're also very short.

The fact is, if you want to understand Christian thought and philosophy, you really need to go beyond the Bible, to see how people have practiced the concepts. A Catholic, a Quaker, and a Pentecostal will all interpret things very differently. Same with Buddhism. Yes, Buddhism is more about experience and contemplation, but a lot of the most valuable resources help people contextualize and understand how the ancient texts were understood. For one thing, just reading some of those texts straight can bring up some issues because 1) problems with translation, and 2) cultural understandings and assumptions from the places that produced them, which non-historians wouldn't understand.

>>11016158
>Too brainlet to have studied the works of the great sages and realized that there is a common perennial truth underlying them

>>11016167
But don't you know that all eastern philosophies are actually Metaphysics^tm and Tradition^tm and say the exact same thing in every single translation and commentary and culture and era?

>>11016171
Not that guy, but I'm very interested in whether people arrived at these fundamental truths because these truths are genuinely universal, or if it's because they had early exposure to one another. Concepts of presentness, interconnectedness, etc. appear in Buddhism, Quakerism, Bektashi Sufism, Jewish humanism (i.e. Spinoza), and others. Yet, the oldest Buddhist texts anyone has found have been in two very distant places: Sri Lanka and Afghanistan. Obviously, Afghanistan is pretty far west. Is it possible that early Vedic principles were floating around Europe and the Middle East enough for them to be absorbed into spiritual practice, or did different people just arrive at these same principles on their own?

>>11016171
Right on, my fellow proto-indo-european brother. Are you also a Brahmin? My mom keeps taking down my pujas to Twilight Sparkle in my basement. I told her I view MLP as a metaphor for Shakti but she says I'm a freak and need to go to Church. Pfft. Church! Christian religion is for plebeians. As >>11016177 says, western philosophy has no metaphsics or traditions. Must be because they are in the terror of history while the east exists, has existed, and will always exist perfectly harmoniously in eternal cyclical time. Hail kek! 1488/93

>>11016177
That's just patently false. I have to think you don't know anything about "eastern philosophies" to say something so stupid. Aside from the obvious fact that Hinduism is very distant from, say, Shinto, even the interpretations of the four noble truths varies slightly between Buddhist sects. Some take it as, you're literally trying to kill pain and desire. Zen takes it completely differently, saying that the pain and desire really comes from wanting or thinking the world is a certain way, which prevents you from accepting it as it is. Once you get rid of that delusion and fully accept the world for how it actually is, then you can act most effectively (the zen interpretation of "right action").

>>11012292
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

>>11016171
>He thinks anyone believes that he "studied the works of the great sages"

>>11016164

They have good reasons for it. Modern science is really just a branch of philosophy that deals with the study of materials for the most part. For most of history it's been thought of in this way. It's been fashionable the last few hundred years to think of philosophy and science as separate but they are really not. The term metaphysics is wrong for how western philosophers use it because it implies 'beyond physics' while it's really just philosophical speculation about being which is in reality just philosophy, just like science is, it's not really beyond anything.

The Eastern thought classified as Metaphysics by the Traditionalists concerns teachings that deal with direct knowledge of something, where there is no distinction between knowing and being. Western philosophy is mostly unaware of or confused about this but logic and discursive thought is secondary to immediate and intuitive understanding. It makes more sense to refer to this as Metaphysics as it genuinely goes beyond the 'theories of knowledge' that are promulgated by western philosophy. The Traditionalists explain this in depth in their writings if you want to learn more. It is a fair and accurate judgement though. Most of western philosophy is just haphazard guessing or one person asserting that they are actually the first ones to get it right while Eastern metaphysics deals with timeless undeniable truths.

>>11016171
>grug go sit in cave
>grug close eye and mumble
>grug tell you great things

I like Buddhism because it doesn't have any rituals, prayers, holy places or chants. It's not really a religion, it's a life philosophy, you know.

It has meditation I guess, but I don't really have to do anything to be a buddhist, that's what I like about it, now I'm going to go watch TV and chill out like the Dhammapada says.

>>11016189
The occult interior sciences share a common object albeit the subject which makes scientific inquiry difficult, though not impossible, the subject is as much a fertile ground for exploration as the outer objectively, thus I do not find it unlikely and do believe that metaphysics does refer to certain conceptual apparatus that we use to confirm certain speculations about the nature of reality.

That said, ya. There's hella influence. Officially and unofficially. Classical world was pretty interconnected. Would be funny if there was an amerindian traditionalist. Then we would know if the principles are truly everywhere...

>>11016243
>I like Buddhism because it doesn't have any rituals, prayers, holy places or chants
is this bait?

>>11016226
You have no idea what you're talking about. Sad.

>>11016189
>Is it possible that early Vedic principles were floating around Europe and the Middle East enough for them to be absorbed into spiritual practice, or did different people just arrive at these same principles on their own?

Zoroastrianism (the source of most of Judaism and by extension Christianity and Islam) was a split-off of the same primordial tradition that Hinduism developed out of so there certainly could have and probably was a connection there. European Paganism also descends from the same Indo-European traditions as Hinduism and Zoroastrianism although there is not that much we know about the actual doctrines because they never really wrote that much down. In principal the Traditionalists agree that it is possible for two different and separate cultures to arrive at the same truth by virtue of it being perennial, and this may explain why in far-flung places it happened like ancient Daoists in China agreeing with Vedanta on many points.

>>11016250
usually when people mention dhammapada, its always bait

>>11016253
>You have no idea what you're talking about. Sad.

You couldn't even bother to try refuting anything I said and instead just made yourself look foolish, sad.

>>11016256
Fake news.

>>11016250
Is there a difference between bait and sarcasm?

>>11014434
Buddha has been post-ordained as a catholic saint

>>11016265
I'm not going to argue with bad history. I'm just pointing out that it's wrong. No need to make you look the fool when you'e already done so yourself to anyone with half an education.

>>11014434
>dogmatism
Why even read books? You know the truth already, buddy. Go for a walk or something.

>>11016233
>grug no like ugly rock in cave
>perfect rock be only in grug head
>grug leave cave find sun

The ironic thing about these threads is that the philosophers that /lit/ likes the most are often the ones that are closest to eastern thought

>Plato and neo-platonists basically are poorly understood Advaita Vedanta
>Heidegger plagiarizing half his shtick from the Zen teacher he studied with
>Stirner just being a pedantic rehashing of basic-bitch teachings about the unreality of the apparent that are found in almost every eastern tradition

>>11016284
No point in reading anything but the vedas. Everything else is a poor copy as >>11016285 says. And obviously the Vedas are 100% true. Even if the cosmological speculation is as obviously scientifically inaccurate as Fundamentalist Christianity. That just means science is wrong.

>>11016267
Exactly what part is fake friendo?

The part where the Persians freed the Jews from slavery in Babylon and Cyrus was praised as a prophet and as 'god's anointed' in Jewish texts? Or maybe the part where the Persians were known for remaking the religion of their subjects in the image of Zoroastrianism? Or maybe you mean the part where there is no evidence for many major tenets of Judaism that already existed in Zoroastrianism like heaven vs hell, angels and demons, a final resurrection and judgement and then after the Persians freed them all these tenets suddenly appear in Judaism? Or maybe the part where there is virtually no archaeological evidence for the Exodus and most modern scholars agree that the Hebrews were just another one of many Semite tribes with their own city/tribal cult?

>>11016282
>does the same bullshit he just got called out for but in a slightly elongated form

>>11016307
>when you are getting BTFO and are butthurt so you pretend to be someone arguing from the other side but really badly so as to make them look bad

>>11016308
I'm the guy you originally replied to, and I just want to clarify that the guy calling it fake news isn't me.

>thread about buddhist philosophy devolves into perennial shitposting
threads over folks, we can only laugh at him and move on

>>11016243
>I like Buddhism because it doesn't have any rituals, prayers, holy places or chants. It's not really a religion, it's a life philosophy, you know.
imagine unironically believing buddhism is just ancient liberalism

>>11016330
the west is spiritually dead and trying to revitalize itself before it collapses, which it probably will. if you don't like perennialism propose an alternative path so we can all move on

>>11016329
Don't worry bud I didn't think that was you. Any time you mention the influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism/Christianity it virtually guarantees some butthurt Christian/Jew will come out of the woodwork and start posting that it's not true.

>>11016285
>implying /lit/ could ever agree on the philosophers it likes the most
Also just because a philosophy is fairly similar to another one doesn't mean it's a "poorly understood" version of it. Plato had his own ideas and even if he might've had some eastern inspiration, the insight he was working towards wasn't some perfect eastern philosophy that he fell short of. The differences between the two schools aren't faults on Plato's part to realize Advaita Vedanta, and saying so shows your inherent bias. I'm not familiar with Heidegger, but Stirner rehashing eastern philosophy is just wrong. The "unreality of the apparent" doesn't sum up Stirner's philosophy at all, and the fact that so many eastern schools work to overcome the "ego" in favour of totality of spirit or whatever, kind of shows an important distinction from Stirner's championing of the ego itself.

>>11016285
"eastern thought" is vastly inferior to western thought, the former is just mystical mumbo jumbo about the self and the latter is logical investigations into creative concepts

>cow-dung worshiping pea brains think they can compete with the peak of human thought
pajeets are no match for the white man

>>11016339
Dude who cares about the west? Try to revitalize yourself first, that's basically the heroic pessimism of Spengler anyway.

>>11016256
Broadly true, false in details. Zoroastrianism is not exactly vedic. At least not in some pan-vedic sense. Buddhism is almost anti-vedic as well. Despite any amount of broad stroke similarities, the tiny differences are rather important. Daoism is different than Hinduism than Christianity etc. Catholicis is different than Lutheranism than Quakerism etc.
>>11016226
If you're trying to revitalize the west like you say here: >>11016339 then why are you pushing bad anti-western propaganda? Once again, true in broad strokes, false in the details. There are many westerners who don't make this distinction you make.
>>11016320
I am merely imitating you. Is that not flattery? Btw, did you know the vedas were not written by human hands and were actually conceived by the gods themselves? Guess that explains why it's infallible... even tho advaita is only one of many schools...

>>11016339
>the west is spiritually dead
yea so is the east, modern humanity is spiritually dead but appealing to hack authors of the 19th/20th century who talk about 'le ancient wisdom' is just pathetic

>>11016380
individualism is a boring meme, not sure what's the point falling for it, every normie is on that train and i don't see anything of worth coming out of it

haven't read Spengler though, i should at some point

>>11016371
>eastern thought" is vastly inferior to western thought, the former is just mystical mumbo jumbo about the self and the latter is logical investigations into creative concepts

How I know that you're a brainlet is that you hold up the concept of logic as being the ideal by which things should be measured, which reveals that you're unaware that the superior form of knowledge is direct intuitive knowledge, which is immediate and does not have to rely on reflection to confirm something. Logic is only a secondary and specialized application of intelligence, and is inferior to immediate understanding where there is no distinction being being and knowledge. See >>11015909

>>11016385
being pathetic is normal though when you are trying to get back on your feet, the alternative of staying dignified on the mud doesn't seem better at all

>>11016394
God, family, friends. In that order :^)

>>11016409
Family, friends, God is the proper order

>>11016400
If logic is so bad then stop using logical arguments. Lol. Jk. Logic helps you to understand Guenon though. Like Plato says, logic assists the mind to ascend to where it can attain to direct knowledge.

>>11016400
>le intuitive knowledge

>>11016429
intuitive knowledge=feels>reals+advaitaseziamgodsoidon'rgottadoshit

>>11016400
>Just believe bro
>You just gotta know stuff
Brainlet who fell for thousands years old anthropotechnics and now believes he has discovered "timeless truths" despite still browsing anime imageboards

>>11016383
>Broadly true, false in details. Zoroastrianism is not exactly vedic. At least not in some pan-vedic sense.

I didn't say that it was, only that there was a clear cultural link that went from PIE traditions>Zoroastrianism>Judaism>Christianity/Islam

>Buddhism is almost anti-vedic as well. Despite any amount of broad stroke similarities, the tiny differences are rather important.

The surface differences conceal a huge amount of similarities, Buddhism can fairly be described as heterodox Buddhism. It borrows a huge amount of ideas from the Vedas and pre-Buddhist Upanishads. Coomaraswamy argues in 'Hinduism and Buddhism' that they teach the same underlying metaphysics but with a different emphasis which I agree with. Mahayana Buddhist ended up becoming even closer to it and being influenced by Shaivism and other Hindu sects.

>Daoism is different than Hinduism than Christianity etc.
There are a huge amount of parallels and similar ideas expressed in Daoism and Vedanta, and to a lesser extent Christ's parellels and Christian mystics. Read Guenon's 'Man and his becoming according to the Vedanta' if you don't believe me, almost every page is chock full of notes showing how Islamic, Daoist and even Christian texts often teach the same ideas expressed in Advaita Vedanta.

>If you're trying to revitalize the west like you say here:

Wasn't me who posted that but I agree its a good Idea

>then why are you pushing bad anti-western propaganda?

I'm not, just saying that modern western philosophy is mostly a dead end, I hope the west founds a new revitalized Christianity or Paganism, I think Neoplatonism and Medieval Scholasticism are examples of great western ideas. It's not anti-western to say that modern western philosophy is a source of trouble and ignorance and that the West should look back into it's own history to try to figure out how to solve the problems of the current era.

>Btw, did you know the vedas were not written by human hands and were actually conceived by the gods themselves?

The Sruti are indeed regarded as infallible in so far as they teach the Sanatana Dharma, the timeless perennial truth, not in the sense that every single word and letter was infallibly written by an anthropomorphic god

>>11016427
Agreed
>>11016429
le no argument
>>11016451
It's not that you 'just gotta know stuff'. Taking the time to study the texts where all of this is taught, especially with the help of a qualified teacher; allows one to acquire an immediate understanding of it. Sorry if you feel the need to simplify and generalize everything to the point of meaninglessness.

>>11016552
>Taking the time to study the texts where all of this is taught, especially with the help of a qualified teacher; allows one to acquire an immediate understanding of it.
Exactly, antropotechnics. You feel for a big meme and now you believe your self induced delusions are timeless truths, because you feel like they are timeless truths. Your animalistic nature is playing a joke on you on so many levels I wouldn't even know where to begin. It's fine, I do it too. I talk with the spirit of Becoming and see the Demiurgic irony in every relation of one to another.
What does your teacher think about the fact that you browse anime imageboards?

>>11016600
You didn't make any argument or point in this post other than that you think I am deluded, which itself isn't an argument.

>>11012292
Hesse

>>11016535
I can agree on some degree of perennialism. I would call myself. I believe in moral forms which I guess could be called perennial. But I think we have made a lot of scientific and social progress that we shouldn't erase by trying to return to premodern metaphysics.

>>11016535
Also: Sankhya>Advaita

And recommending Guenon ain't exactly helping recover the west. Just creating strange racist romantic fantasies.

>>11016700
>Also: Sankhya>Advaita
Vedanta incorporates everything of worth from Samkhya

>And recommending Guenon ain't exactly helping recover the west.
He literally wrote multiple books on this topic alone

>Just creating strange racist romantic fantasies.
Are you confusing Guenon with Evola? Guenon was not racist, he denounced the Nazi and Fascist governments, and the Vedanta literature that he held up as the purest expression of Metaphysics expressly declares the importance of recognizing the divinity in everything and everyone which is in direct opposition to racism.

>>11016923
Advaita is dumb for denying pluraity of souls and separation from Brahman.

Why not read the sources of western philosophy instead of relying on a crank?

Orientalism is racism.

>>11016964
>Advaita is dumb for denying pluraity of souls and separation from Brahman.
I would say it's correct insofar as it argues that these exist only in an illusionary sense and that once there has been liberation that these can no longer be true.

>Why not read the sources of western philosophy instead of relying on a crank?
Guenon was not a crank, he was well-received by Easterners who generally thought he was one of the few westerners to accurately understand the teachings. Ramana Maharshi called him the 'great sufi' His writings have been influential and well-received in the Muslim world, he was well-known as a learned Sufi in Cairo where he lived.

>Orientalism is racism.
Guenon was not an Orientalist

>>11016975
Disagreed. No one is Brahman. That's dumb hippie shit for beatles fans on acid "turn off your mind relax and float downstream cause I am we and you are me"

If you were the absolute you would be all knowing and all wise and certainly not wasting time here. Therefore you are taking it all on authority.

Even if you have had an experience. That experience is not epistemologically justified with logic and reason and science to back it up. I felt like I was God once. Couple hits of L will do that to you. Guys at the psych ward can't stop the feeling. They don't seem well off either.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

>traditionalism btfo

>>11012292
Only decent response is >>11014305.

That anthology book is alright if you have read Buddhist philosophy before and know what they are talking about. Over all it is a pretty poor anthology as it doesn't really even give you a decent grounding in many of the ideas presented in the book except for say the ecological and feminist chapters that are at the back of the book and only loosely use Buddhist philosophical concepts. For example Garfields chapter on the excerpt from Chapter 24 from Nagarjuna's Muladhyamikakarika is difficult to understand without having first been grounded in the arguments from the prior chapter that lead up to his discussion on the four noble truths. It may be a useful as a springboard if you dont have some texts handy or are lost with some ideas but it itself is not really useful as an introductory piece which is best served by Siderits book which actually takes the fundamental premises of all the major schools of Buddhist philosophy and breaks them down into their arguments.

>>11014435
In 1951 the English edition received the official approbation of the Pali Text Society in recognition of the value of his study.

>>11015911
Shobogenzo is something like 1200 pages long. for that same reason it shouldn't be on a beginners reading list.

>>11012292
Lam Rim
Gampopa
Shantideva
Heartsutra
Nagarjuna

>>11016400
Logic is just correct reasoning. It's easy to accidentally form flawed reasoning. It isn't an ideal or thing itself.

>>11012379
I read this book. What did I think?

>>11018939
These are not the droids you are looking for...

>>11014804
It's not "nothingness" in the sense "nothing exists." It's "nothingness" in the sense of "experience without being fettered by bias."

It's not an infinite dark and hollow nothing, it's an infinite illuminating and fulfilled nothing.

>>11015037
>Creative solutions to complex problems have allowed humanity to conquer nature and its own dark nature

Your average modern human is a neurotic, washed-up mess, totally out of touch with their own fuller selves.

>>11017187
I don't think you fully grasp what is said when people talk of "you are the Absolute."

They're not saying that your identity as "anon #52890 sitting in his underwear shitposting on 4chan" is the Absolute. They're saying that, behind all of the multitudes of assumptions that led to identifying as "anon #52890 sitting in his underwear shitposting on 4chan" is pure, unrefined Being.

Behind every ego's countless assumptions is pure Being. It cannot be grasped by intellect, because intellect can only work through assumptions, and as a result falls flat in attempting to grasp the assumption-less.

It is a very deep and subtle wisdom, but true nonetheless.

>>11019034
Maybe we are nirguna brahman but not saguna brahman.

>>11017315
>except for say the ecological and feminist chapters
sounds like california-buddhism tier garbage, is the book actually good?

>>11019902
I don't understand this mindset in the slightest

Why is wanting to maintain our ability to live in this ecosystem something to be ashamed of?

>>11019932
i have nothing against actually protecting ecosystems, but the appearance of that word next to "feminism" makes me think this is about identity and lifestyle, not about anything actually useful

i may be wrong, which is why i am asking the guy if the book is actually good or if it's just individualist liberalism re-packaged with buddhist clothes

>>11019902

Well California tier is what I presume to be some aspects of mindfulness training with Zen Aesthetics and starts at Zen and the art of motorcycle repair and goes all the way down to books such as Zen Puppies. If that is what you had in mind then no it is not California tier garbage, but it is a book written by who I presume are Liberals.
As I said in the rest of the post it is not that useful for beginners and even then it leaves a lot to be desired. It is more of a reference anthology that lets you know who is who in one area of anglophile Buddhist scholarship where various scholars in Buddhism and in philosophy departments contribute a translated passage of text from one of their fields of work from Theravada Buddhism, through the Zen traditions and in Tibetan Tradition. In other words it is useful for a payday for the the editors and letting some authors get their names out and have something on their resume. However while it has a vast array of texts from lots of traditions which is also its own weakness as it doesn't do any of the excerpts justice. Garfield is a lecturer from the east coast and lecturers principally at Smith but has also done other colleges such as Amherst so it is of course going to be the a text that is going to have some liberal elements in it, but that is nothing new as almost humanities departments are left wing in nature.

The Theravada chapters are good as are some of the chapters on Candrikirti and the other commentators on Nagarjuna but that was only useful after I had some understanding of who they were and what was their point in writing. The feminist chapter is actually interesting as it will give a background in the depiction of women in the Buddhist tradition and it is not particularly positive, which doesn't really shock anyone but it causes immense cognitive dissonance for certain authors in this area.

Garfield probably does this job better in his more recent book Buddhism and why it matters to Philosophy I havent read that book but it seems like a reasonable project but I presume it is the similar in essence to a book he published in 2002 called Empty Words which is focused on cross-cultural philosophy which also contains his political musings of whether liberal democracy is compatible with Buddhism, a reasonable objective seeing as he is deeply involved with the Tibetan exile government and at that time they were reforming their government structure.

Just read the Siderit's book.

>>11015158
If you meet Buddha on the road, kill him

>>11020052
im not sure that i understand this exchange

>>11015037
arrogance in ignorance

>>11018977
this. it's more an "everythingness" than a "nothingness"

>>11020046
sounds decent enough, thanks for the break down

>>11020088
it was written for an over-ritualistic world, so it's pretty much meaningless in the current liberal "just be yourself" countries

>all this beat, new age etc shit

you guys suck.

murti-the central philosophy of buddhism
streng-emptiness
stcherbatsky-buddhist logic
ruegg-the buddhist philosophy of the middle

and for overviews conze is not bad, but theres a bunch of quality ones.

also, seeing the context where all philosophical schools arose is basic to get buddhism. jaina too but also all those schools that didnt become a religion, carvaka ajivika ajnana etc.

>>11012370
>Practical life advice?
This, please.

>>11017935
this