/lit/ - Literature

Fuck off

>>10989626
Why?

>>10989621
>Thoughts?
In the book? None

>>10989633
Hahhahahaha agreed, it's a glorified second source of unoriginal ideas and shitty self-help and pseudo-philosophy.... muh combat evil.... muh order

>>10989629
Just fuck off

i bought it and read just to the lobster part. then he started making puns, didnt keep reading. prose was atrocious.

>>10989621
pretty, pretty good.

>>10989621
i liked it but it didnt cure my existential angst

>>10989621
it's all about cashing in when the time is right

Better than The Ten Commandments.

The pure white-hot hatred freshman commies have for JP makes me want to read it, but he seems to have let the fame get to his head
Is this book actually good or just meme-pandering, LE BASED LOBSTER CLEAN YOUR ROOM MAN shit?
I thought his Bible lectures were cool, other ones were hit or miss

He's appealing to a specific market; i don't have a problem with him and think he can make a positive impact in people's lives.

But there's absolutely nothing special about his work in a oversaturated sea of self help books.

My main problem with Peterson is that his actual real world conclusions and prescriptions, if you strip away all the epic imagery about dragons and shit, are profoundly uninteresting and perhaps harmful.

It's basically a gigantic detour to saying that you should accept neoliberalism, be a good eager wagecuck, get married and have a few kids and don't organise politically based on your group interest. He's peddling the same shit your dull middle class parents would but with different decorations. The clean your room thing is a perfect example of that.

What's potentially dangerous about his influence is that the only people who gravitate towards him are white kids. So white kids are the only ones being convinced to be individualistic and not organise according to their group interests. Which makes Peterson part of the larger 'everyone can complain and stand up for themselves except white men' trend in society. Basically a pressure valve for white dissatisfaction and telling them to be good goys with a type of sophistry these kids haven't encountered before and are vulnerable to.

Gas the boomers, generation war now.

>>10991478
A bit extreme but in general I agree... the book can be boiled down to maybe 20 pages, but then again most of these books with one grand idea can be as well. It's like a guy like Ben Shapiro.. in general he is a "good guy" but then you get into the nuances and you see he has his agenda just like everyone else that people overlook because he's a general "good guy". The point is, this is a good starting point. If he is the end of someone's ideological maturation there will be trouble, but if he is just a gateway into a certain way of thinking then it can be a big positive.. and just on places like twitter you're getting an increase in these 'guru accounts' which espouse a more practical approach than what JP preaches.

>>10991478
if white men ever regain their balls and start to assert themselves there will be catastrophic civil war in nearly every important Western country.

So idk if that's a positive outcome, even for the white men

>>10991917
>So idk if that's a positive outcome, even for the white men
Waiting for the demographics to be South-Africa tier might be even less positive for white men though.

>>10991925
SA is quite unique though. Most Western countries are being shifted into either Brazil-like demographics, in which there is hardly an anti-white situation like SA, or else novel Muslim or Chinese, etc. influxes.

It's clear from the historical record that being a minority in a black country spells death, but there aren't many countries looking to become black majority.

>>10991478
That’s not what he says, though. Just that most people need friends, a family, and a job. And that if you want those things but are unable to for personal reasons that are in your control (and they usually are) you shouldn’t start by blaming the capitalist system for your perceived inequality.

>>10989621
I find cultivating a personality cult to be disgusting regardless of ideology.

Guns germs and steel meme-tier book.

>>10989621
how telling: an authoritarian didactically preaching "rules" of life. Gtfo man

>>10991957
here are the 14 tenets of fascism
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

>>10991957
Either you are false-flagging and thus a faggot for believing that manipulating opinion on /lit/ matters the slightest, or are a genuine idiot for seeing Peterson's boring theses as authoritarian. I'm trying a thought process to see you in a positive light, and it is very difficult.

>>10989621
Meh typical self help book it has some good advice but don't read it expecting some profound work.

It’s like you don’t even have to try and bait /lit/ anymore

>>10991975
i dont think youre using false-flag here right. that would imply he is actually a peterson fan and pretending to be against him

>>10991993
that's what he's saying. false-flagging against, idk anarchist types. whoever usually spouts off about 'authority' and 'bootlicking' and that sort of thing

>>10991963
>obsession with crime and punishment
Fascists had a patrish taste in books desu

>>10992021
they didn't like dosto

>>10992022
Dostoevsky was pretty antisemitic though, wouldn't be hard for fascists to single out that part of him. Then again his antisemitism might be somewhat overblown by Jews who are hyper sensitive to people saying anything negative about them. Dosto himself said he wasn't antisemitic, but that of course never exonerates people from the charge

>>10992044
Bakunin was even more antisemitic and yet was prohibited by nazis because of his views.

>>10992022
I was making a joke you dense egg, read the 14 tenets that anon posted

Great book
What’s so good about Peterson is not that he’s saying anything new but that he says so much that is true and important in the most unapologetic and sincere way, and he embodies his own philosophy and represents what it means to be good in such an amazing way.
Also book is filled with cool facts

>>10992075
I know but I was too autistic not to respond

>>10991478

JP says not to organize with others BEFORE you have organized yourself. He says nothing about what to do afterwards, leaves it up to your character. I think that's certainly wise.

>>10989621
Jordan Peterson is a shit philosopher.

Peterson is a ray of hope for sperglords and middle-aged men who've squandered their youth. His politics are as predictable as the crowd of uninformed pseudo-intellectuals he attracts to suck his ass through a straw.

>>10992097
Nice, I love cool facts

I've been following Peterson's advice for about a year and I've gone from wizardchan-tier autist to someone who has a good job, productive hobbies, and doesn't sperg out around women anymore

it annoys me that so many people reflexively hate him, because he's very useful for a lot of people

>>10992311
>it annoys me that so many people reflexively hate him
It's because not everyone is a wizardchan-tier autist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

>>10989621
just finished it. Fucking awesome. The chapter titles are platitudes but his path to arrival at those platitudes are original and thought provoking, therefore making their lessons much more than platitudes. He's a great man.

>>10992252
why would you just assume that all of the people that see things from his point of view are pseuds? I've studied the greatest philosophers, literally, in school and out of it and yet I think Peterson has something important to say.

Then we have someone like you that can't help but air his musk of "superiority" by mocking people that find meaning in a very obvious intellectual. This tells me that you are closed-minded and quite probably not very well-read. I think you're the pseud.

>>10992311
I've been listening to Peterson and I'm still a virgin NEET, although less bitter but not by much.

>>10991478
>the only people who gravitate towards him are white kids
I'm not white and I loved it.

>>10991937
>personality cult

>>10992314
which is precisely their problem. They have no idea how to fucking empathize.

>>10992749
>which is precisely their problem
No it's not. When one publicly croses the border of philosophy, he's in a field where the most radical criticism should be expected.

>>10992773
this is why everyone hates philosophers

>>10992784
Obviously, the truth is not nice.

>>10992773
>people's stupidity should be expected
sure, but that doesn't make them not stupid

>>10992784
sophia does not care about your life problems you pseud half-wit

>>10989621
an incredible work of not just practical advice but also as a work of art
his unique way of breaking down issues and his eloquent metaphors haven't been seen since the likes of Jesus Christ himself
a true GOD amongst men and should be worshiped immediately by all

>>10992123
He has said that white men organizing as a group would be disastrous for everyone but them.

How likely is Peterson to become a saint if he converts on his death bed?

Peterson literally says children should be bullied to build character and says Nelson Muntz is a respectable character. Fuck him, I still wake up from nightmares of high school.

>>10992836
He also loves Freud.

>>10992836
lol you just gotta recognize your place within the dominance hierarchy you silly gamma
now take your soma and clean your sludge cave like a good arthropod (i use the latin phylum name after my encounter with the classical language in high school)

>>10992870
You are supposed to enjoy and be turned on by being low in the dominance hierarchy, watching your girlfriend with other men is the same wonderful feeling you feel when working at McDonalds.

>>10992870
>bullied for intrinsic quality which cannot change
>bullying becomes caste
>caste is so low you can’t breed and are basically molested by social aggression near constantly
>nervous system adapts and becomes unstable over time
>neuroses, even repressed by a lack of ressentiment, bubble to the surface
>dominant psychopath continues aggression even more vigorously on surfacing of neuroses
>well at least i know my place
>goes bald at 28
>dies of a broken heart at 40
i know you are baiting

>>10992879
i, for one, find it to be the most intellectually stimulating of the sexual indulgences available on the market

Interestingly nobody will ever pick a problem with specifics

>>10992836
where the fuck does he say children should be bullied? chapter and pg pls

>>10992963
yes they will
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

>>10992986

>>10992987
lol this guy again? I thought we already established that no one is going to read something by someone that looks like I would bully in school

just give up anon, no one cares about your dumb article

>>10992996
>he didnt bother to look up the german kid's name
Lmao

>>10992996
bullying only selects against the existence of weak specimens it doesn’t correct them, it only weakens them further so they do not persist or are nullified socially. we bully to cripple and make sport of others, to use them to train our reflexes and to gain status by organizing sacrifices of them. there is no therpeutic aspect to it, your emotional constitution isn’t a muscle at all, you’ll just weaken over time, become obsequious or sociopathic and then wither

>>10993003
>asks for specific criticisms
>is provided with them
>bites the hand that feeds
don't know what else to do for you, mate

>>10992996
well he has a point. Maybe you should start standing up for yourself now, today, instead of subjugating yourself to bad memories.

Those kids hurt you, but you're not a kid anymore. Take some personal responsibility.

>>10993022
i agree
maybe shoot an e-mail to peterson about it tho

>>10993030
the guy that requested them wasn't me. Besides, that article is shit you tryhard.

>>10989621
Peterson is a scumbag who's making a career of defending late stage capitalism. Fuck him and his reactionary bullshit. If you unironically like anything he says you deserve to be mocked to death.

>>10992799
What?

>>10993050
>t. dumdum

>>10992179
Good thing he's not a philosopher then.

>>10993042
>tryhard
i am posting to other people's work with barely a word
i'm not even bothering to capitalize appropriately or use proper punctuation
what does 'low effort posting' look like to you if this strikes you as over-the-top
and anyway
what is shit about it?
be specific now

>>10993061
>you've posted that same article before in another thread
literally not a one cares, tryhard

>>10993040
i never said bullying was bad, i only expressed that he was obfuscating what it actually does and that this is basically occulted by master morality advocates who are not comfortable with explicating their system of ethics in full honesty. Nietzsche would just say that the weak need to be helped out of this world, Peterson, who has not read Nietzsche honestly, will just say they’re being straightened out. But, someone being raped isn’t being straightened out, their ass is being torn apart and they’re being traumatized, they’ll never be the same after that attack; this is exactly like bullying in almost every respect, we’re finite systems, our parts break if abused, you can sinply break people, this is good if you want the strong to proliferate. there would be nothing to say to him. he’s a dishonest con artist and a massive fraud intellectually. At least N had the courage to be a psychopath

>>10993061
here's a better article

https://jacobitemag.com/2018/02/09/the-jordan-peterson-emergency/

>>10993066
okay
stay benighted, ideologue

>>10993072
Come on, don't compare being raped with being bullied, you over dramatic autistic piece of shit. I don't know much about Peterson but the reasonable thing to assume is that when he talks about bullying he isn't talking about making someone completely miserable.

>>10992987
>>10993087
>muh obscurantism
>im too lazy or dumb to think about what he's actually saying
>therefore peterson is a fraud

logically valid and sound conclusion here boys

>>10993054
Are you talking to yourself, nitwit?

>>10993003
Robinson is barely a kid and he's already ten times the philosopher Peterson is. He's a bit rough in the edges but he's insightful enough to recognize the right side of history.

>>10993080
robinson really doesn't have much to say about whatever you can infer peterson's personal 'politics' to be
he's more interested in the emotional register of those who find peterson's work praise-worthy, and seeks to investigate exactly what is in the work that is actually worthy of all the encomium being heaped upon it
turns out, when you dig through the midden, there's actually not much there but truisms spun out into elaborate rube goldberg mechanisms, and incoherent rambling that could be better stated--is better stated--in a simply directive: 'respect the status quo, chum'
mariani is way overstating the negative reaction to peterson's work. he has to, because he is supposedly on the fringe of the political specturm. but the reception of 12 rules has been overwhelmingly positive, almost universally lauded in all the major publications, and is the single best-selling book on amazon
what 'smear industry'? it's one article from one radical marxist online magazine

>>10993117
what's peterson actually saying?
lay it on me, i am eager to learn and i have all day

His biblical lectures are really cool and were quite eye-opening for me. It's funny that the concept of God is taught as a big invisible boogeyman in the sky when it really has nothing to do with that. The concept of God is simply a manifestation of humanity's attempt to explain the infinite. It's about having faith in life. Perhaps it was just me, but being alive for the current technology boom (invention of cars, planes, internet, phones, etc...) made me feel like we are in some sort of societal awakening and I was conflating this with the recent trend in atheism. The reality is though, it's completely naive to think we are the first generation to have had this thought. Humanity has thought about this a millions of times before and the idea of God and faith is the conclusion.

>>10993111
Its essentially the same thing, it upsets you because you identify with the bully for whatever insane self-narrativizing reason

when you make a kid cry by calling him ugly, poor and stupid, which is what almost all bullying amounts to, they are internalizing that and it damages the internal centers that act as the organs of the Self, they will not recover, they are weak, their spirit is weak, they will in fact only compensate with time.

sometimes this is done by trying to impress the bully or destroy them, so pathological narcissism or worse sociopathic striving will occur, i know because i did this in school and it worked, i viciously attacked people who bothered me or turned into a snake who befriended them. im embarassed to this day for both these behaviors and i bullied other kids constantly for status because i saw others doing it, i never bullied people when i was young, only after being dropped on my head on concrete and beaten up for having a big skull relative to my body did i realize i could gain social status and control by harming others mercilessly

Peterson not only reduces, and stupefies, our understanding of social interactions by using a fucking cartoon for his model, but he also purposefully avoids analogous behaviors like robbing, raping or assaulting people

if i punch you in the face your fucking face is going to bruise, if i do it well you now have broken bone structure, hopefully you’re disfigured and if i was really effective you’re now uglier, you have brain damar, your teeth don’t work well as a system anymore, you have blurry vision, you’ll have headaches and posture problems

wow i really made you stronger, and the only solution is to coerce/defraud me into not attacking you or attacking me, which is a cycle of violence, and eventually there will be casualties

you people, capitalists use this stupid fucking logic too, only fascists admit what’s happening, don’t get, there is not enough attention or love or respect for all of us, many of the people who are being “striaghtened out” will not survive this, cannot (and should not) cope with blood pouring out of their assholes everyday, and they will kill themselves or die from being weakened. you can die from bullying, you can die from rape, you can die from being assaulted, you can get extremely sick from bullying, i avoided going to school in 6th grade because every single day i was tormented, and i actually got sick from this.

NONE of it is voluntary anymore than your reaction to a rock falling on your head is voluntary

You’re already trying to weaken me by calling me an autist and then quickly scuttling back to your cowardly interpretation, i don’t care what peterson’s 120 iq brain thinks, I’m telling (You) what I KNOW is the case, and people who go to prison for drug trafficking, get raped a dozen times, get STI’s, broken bones and a mental illness from incarceration are not made better by it

>>10989621
48 Rules of Power but for millennials

>>10992987
I tried to read it but got bored so skimmed the rest. One could pick more holes in this than they could pick in JBPs book

>>10993225
then do it, you lazy cunt

>>10993232
Here’s one for you pal.
Your article repeats the argument that Peterson’s claims in the book are simple and easy to get and there’s a lot of “no duh” style comments within it. This is a dumb claim and I can’t believe you would write it so many times without ever stopping to think that even though something might be a truism, that many people won’t live by it because they feel no reason to, so he provides deepband varied analysis of why these things are the case, which brings me onto a second criticism:
The article conviniently cuts and pastes parts of the text to make it look as if the whole book is innane, when anybody who has actually read the book can clearly see a logical structure to each chapter where he tackles the points he’s making. First by making it, then by abstraction and giving various unrelated examples of where this is relevant, and finally by tying them together.
If one cannot follow that, and assumes because of this that the book is pretentious, then they(you) are the pseud, not Peterson.

>>10993232
just admit that you can’t be arsed cleaning your room and moving out of mums house and instead of getting a job just want to pretend to be a one day famous writer

>>10989621
It's a self help book that just came out and is a strange tizzy of a fad right now.

There are so many old classics that can help you more than some chuckle fuck trying to not have a job. Fuck that guy.

>>10993303
sorry sweetie, its an incredible work of not just practical advice but also as a work of art
his unique way of breaking down issues and his eloquent metaphors haven't been seen since the likes of Jesus Christ himself
a true GOD amongst men and should be worshiped immediately by all

>>10989621
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s3bJYHQXYg

>>10993232
>>10993160
maybe you should take your own advice schmuck

>>10993318
Peterson is LITCHRALLY the second coming of Christ

>>10993160
>and i have all day
NEET detected

>>10993318
You don't know your sisters asshole from art.

>>10993264
my room is pretty clean, i live in a house with two roommates, one of which is the owner of the house but unrelated to me, and i work a steady but low-paying job. i have no writerly aspirations; my chosen artistic outlet is theatre.
>>10993255
it is not just that peterson spouts truisms as deep profundities; he extrapolates from these truisms to make preposterous claims about myth, the 'meaning of life', and human purpose--which, once one has disambiguated peterson's pompous prolixity (haha!), are just liberal democratic ie 'bourgeois' platitudes. except, again, in peterson these take on the proportion and preponderance (hahaha!) of Our Great Stories. It's self-help schlock served up as evolutionary-religious gospel.
there's nothing really substantial to follow--that's what is, at first, blush, so baffling about the panegyric around the book. but upon a little reflection, this makes perfect sense--the work invites mere 'participation' in the art of intellectualizing, and even of revelation. as robinson argues, people leave the work having garnered nothing but an impression of insight. it enables the most vacuous non-engagement with pseudo-profundities, which is perfectly typical, absolutely exemplary of the time we live in, of the intellectual environment that surrounds us. it is /lit/ writ large upon the national screen: 'i really liked the prose, but the themes were a little beyond me. all in all i think it's a pretty good book. 10/10 would recommend'.
it is yet another knell summoning the assassin of our literary and intellectual culture.

>>10993488
i start work at five
'all day' was hyperbole
so
get cracking

>>10993575
You are a retard darling. Stick to reddit

>>10993333
Carlin was based. Unironically one of the best intellectual of his time. It would have been gold seeing him mocking Peterson.

>>10993595
peterson is reddit incarnate you silly know-nothing faggot

>>10993575
>i work a steady but low-paying job
>my chosen artistic outlet is theatre.
So you're a waiter working on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams.

Listen hon, when your artistic career inevitably does not work out, Peterson will be waiting for you with open arms.

OK, I cleaned my room, now what? I still feel dead inside

>>10993746
i am a cook, not a waiter
i do not think of my theatre work as a career
mostly i work with friends. we do not charge for admission, but take donations.
i do this for the love of it, not because i think it will lead to 'bigger things'

>>10993575
>it is not just that peterson spouts truisms as deep profundities; he extrapolates from these truisms to make preposterous claims about myth, the 'meaning of life', and human purpose--which, once one has disambiguated peterson's pompous prolixity (haha!), are just liberal democratic ie 'bourgeois' platitudes. except, again, in peterson these take on the proportion and preponderance (hahaha!) of Our Great Stories. It's self-help schlock served up as evolutionary-religious gospel.
there's nothing really substantial to follow--that's what is, at first, blush, so baffling about the panegyric around the book. but upon a little reflection, this makes perfect sense--the work invites mere 'participation' in the art of intellectualizing, and even of revelation. as robinson argues, people leave the work having garnered nothing but an impression of insight. it enables the most vacuous non-engagement with pseudo-profundities, which is perfectly typical, absolutely exemplary of the time we live in, of the intellectual environment that surrounds us. it is /lit/ writ large upon the national screen: 'i really liked the prose, but the themes were a little beyond me. all in all i think it's a pretty good book. 10/10 would recommend'.
it is yet another knell summoning the assassin of our literary and intellectual culture.

I believe he derives truisms from ancient religious texts and Darwinism, not the other way around, which is why he's so interesting. Anyone can say clean your room or tell the truth--the reasoning behind doing so is much more interesting coming from JBP's perspective and that's what matters. The truisms themselves aren't as important as the reasoning that leads to those truisms.

>there's nothing really substantial to follow
the entire theme of the book is chaos vs order, bolstered by tales of familiarity to the modern person, ancient and not-so-ancient texts, and science. All of this is substantial toward the overarching theme.

>>10993785
clean your bathroom now you dirty fuck

>>10992737
t. asian male

>>10993863
stop projecting faggot

>>10993811
the stories that peterson borrows from to substantiate his claims are NOT familiar to the supermajority of his audience. that is how he is able to get away with his interpretive malarkey. they may have been to those of three or four generations ago, but not to anyone born after 1945, and ESPECIALLY not to anyone raised and educated within our current public school system. they might recognize a few scattered names--and really, there it is: that's the minute spark that lights in their heads as they are reading. 'oh yes, i "remember" now. moses. adam. jesus. of course, it all makes sense. everything you're saying makes sense.' peterson is totally dependent on his readers'/listeners' basic ignorance of the bible, of classical literature, of psychology, of evolution, of anything.
it's the effect of a constant smattering of contextless information, of what everyone is exposed to all the time. it is total bewilderment and incapacity to reason through the mass and mess of it all. then this guy comes along with a straight-forward (though torturously presented) narrative, and of course people are relieved. at last, here's the explanation! here's the palliative for my overwhelming and indeterminate anxiety! the answers were in the old stories all along! i won't actually go back and read them for myself, of course--and why should i? this guy's done all the legwork for me!

>>10993863
why would you assume im asian?

>>10993878
I was actually referring to stories that he mentions like the various disney movies and tales from his own life more than the ancient texts.

>>10993191
>The concept of God is simply a manifestation of humanity's attempt to explain the infinite

wow lmao dude Feuerbach

So deep
Ebin, simbly ebin

>>10993888
irrelevant what you were referring to with the phrase 'familiar stories', as the point still stands
please stay focused

>>10993915
epic?

>>10989621
Lobsters

>>10993920
the """point"""

>>10993931
Alpha and Beta Lobsters

>>10993934
yes, that peterson capitalizes on the ignorance of his audience to sell his ideas, which he, according to him, bases on what should be a common inheritance

>>10993878
oh I recognize you now

>he's the one that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room

>>10993956
>>10992963

>>10993978
lol wrong anon Merlin

>>10993988
wasn't implying you were the same