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/lit/ - Literature


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10787046 No.10787046[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

You see this type of photo on someone's social network

What's the first thing that pops into your head as how to classify the person that puts into contrast making and uploading such pictures in the first place?

>> No.10787065
File: 37 KB, 470x470, hhdd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787065

>>10787046
Or this?

>> No.10787072

>>10787046
My immediate reaction: now there's an intelligent and cultured young man.

>> No.10787075

>>10787046
i bet he really likes chapo trap house and cumtown

>> No.10787078

>>10787046
poorly developed facial hair is a sign of low testosterone

>> No.10787095
File: 259 KB, 1024x896, 1024px-Location_Moldova_Europe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787095

Additional information: Such type of person is from a country of this tier

What does this say of such a person?

>> No.10787107

>>10787046

I instantly dislike them since it's a poor person trying to fetishize an upper class or appearing upper class life despite the fact they both hate each other.

>> No.10787120

>>10787046
>uploading your own pictures
Narcissism
>alcohol I've never heard of
Trying to signal his individuality which goes well with narcissim
>Zizek
I like Zizek. I think he's using him to supplement the things I've mentioned above

All in all, he looks like my dad. The only difference is that my dad dresses up like that and doesn't shave because he genuinely doesn't give a fuck anymore. This dude is trying to signal something which is why he uploaded it to social media in the first place.

>> No.10787126

May as well be a woman. Men who pose with things in order to look "deep" are often much less knowledgeable and interested in what they have to represent in a picture but not their words.

>> No.10787127

>>10787095
He is from Russia. The brand of ale in his hands gave him (you?) away.

>> No.10787131

>>10787120
Are you defining him as a narcissist for uploading it or are you merely calling the act narcissistic? If you believe he's a narcissist for a picture like that, then quite a massive proportion of teenage girls have npd too.

>> No.10787134

A boy attempting to distinguish himself from the rest of his generation, however unfortunately has not elevated himself amongst his generation.

He is seeking to be viewed as an "intellectual" but also has within him this desire to show to people he is an "intellectual" (hence the picture).

God bless him with his journey, perhaps he will elevate himself up from this idea that you are only what others see you are. The mask is not you, it took me a while to realise that. You are not what others see you as - so stop the fine tuning of the mask and release yourself from it. It is a tumour which grows and grows until who you are is just a random assimilation of different characters you once decided you wanted to become, all unorganisedly combined together leading to actual emptiness of who you are.

>> No.10787137

>>10787065
>ear shit
Wannabe cultured moron. Tribal bullshit. He thinks that it makes him look different and therefore interesting.
>Pipe
Wants to appear smart or thoughtful. Just comes off as pretentious to me.
>Beard
Goes well with what I presented above. Wants to appear smart, cultured, and above you by subverting a lot of shit.

Once again, I think it's narcissism. It's not weird since we're all narcissistic these days. He uses social media to signal something and get respect by other people who know what these signals mean. It's usually used to attract girls who also have a certain style (those "artsy" ones)

All in all, I don't go outside and I hate everyone. I bet you're a 15 year old moron from /pol/ who hates what was called a hipster and is now a soyboy because you don't have the confidence to look as retarded as they do. Fuck you.

>> No.10787139

>>10787046
Faggot

>> No.10787141

>>10787065
Balding faggot

>> No.10787143

>>10787137
>All in all, I don't go outside and I hate everyone.
4chan incarnated

>> No.10787145

>>10787131
>>10787134
I believe we're living in a society that promotes narcissism and individualism. Most people are obsessed with the way they look and capitalism fuels that. New trends every few months. He doesn't have a disorder, he's just wound up in what is expected of him. If you don't promote yourself, you're irrelevant. And since you can promote yourself, you do it because you want to find a partner, be influential etc.

>> No.10787165
File: 1.46 MB, 2122x3086, 1519991004403.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787165

>>10787145
>I believe we're living in a society that promotes narcissism and individualism
You are correct imo with the first part but not the later. Our society does not promote individualism. I live in Budapest and on Friday nights i often take a walk in the city centre, and i see that the people out and about are essentially identical.
Walk past one bar, this is the bar where people go where they feel like rebels - just a bunch of 20 year olds dressed the same feeling "individual" about being a rebel but they have no idea what they are rebelling against - they are just there to fit into a certain image.
Walk past a sophisticated Bar - everyone there is just there to fit into a certain image.

You could blindfold me and make me have a conversation with 3 people in a specific setting and i wouldn't be able to distinguish them after because every is the same.
Our society is monotonous, homogenous and boring. Fuck i'm also probably trying to fit into something too. There is no escape, everyone tries to fit an image. Human beings are stupid creatures, they are unable to use their brains because it hurts to think, so we stick to the superficialities because it's easy. Thats why Image is the most important thing if you want to integrate into society (which ofcourse you do, we are also unfortunately very social creatures in our nature - why else do we talk to ourselves when we are alone if not to replicate there being another person).
There is no escape unfortunately. Once you realise that human society is just a mosaic (each mosaic representing a certain image/group) then when you look close up to the mosaic you see each piece and how ugly they are.

>> No.10787176

>>10787145
Irrelevancy is underrated. I'm glad nobody gives a shit about what I'm up to, it allows me to get things done and retire back to my modest hobbies in peace. I actually get mad when there's a knock at my door or my phone rings anymore, because I know it's not for me, but some time-wasting solicitation. Needless to say I answer neither.

>> No.10787180

>>10787137

Why would you want to achieve confidence only to use it and look like a retard?

>> No.10787182

>>10787165
People have individualities it's just you who can't distinguish it or have a prejudice against it. Be more observant and one day you will find out that people are complex creatures and consist of common and individual traits.

>> No.10787187

>>10787182
everything you are has been given to you. you are are a blank canvas the world has painted on. thus if you have been given something, how can you claim it to be individual?

you are a collection of other people's thoughts and opinions and in no way unique or special.

>> No.10787192

>>10787187
>you are are a blank canvas the world has painted on
ever heard of heredity?
>you are a collection of other people's thoughts and opinions and in no way unique or special.
but they are interpreted by my understanding which is specific only to me

>> No.10787209
File: 39 KB, 450x317, main-qimg-6442a8a4cf8dad6feeee899c4b37a2ab.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787209

>>10787192
>they are interpreted by my understanding which is specific only to me

>> No.10787218

>>10787046
I'm happy I can say I've grown past Zizek. I still love the sniffman but I'm no longer impressed by him

>> No.10787229

>>10787218

Why not?

>> No.10787258

>>10787046
the title of the ticklish subject turns me on.. i dont think i'dbe able to read it i'd keep getting distratcted and frustrated.... it makes me think of some sadistic scientists havng tied down some poor young man for experiments of merciless tickling... exploiting the sensitivity of his flesh.... laughing as they dub him simply "the ticklish subject", stripped of his clothes and dignity and identity.... no room for him to think or reflect, a constant agony of laughter, ticklish flesh wthout the capacity for leisure or insight..... constant evil stimulation... scratching nails along the sides, spidering across his belly and nipples, raking across his stretched, quivering armpits, tormenting his neck with slight attacks, raping the back of his knees, kneading his thighs... combs across heels, paintbrushes and feathers between toes, hairbrush across soles, agony agony agony tickle tickle tickle

>> No.10787261

>>10787046
First thought: bugman
(Damn this site)
Further: He is trying to attract a sex partner which when you subtract all bullshit is the only worthy pursuit in life.

>> No.10787266

>>10787258
That was intentional you cretin

>> No.10787270

>>10787266
zizek was trying to explot my fetishistic obsessions... the cruel devil, the intellectual vixen, tormenting me with vivid fantasies

>> No.10787286

>>10787270
He is a pervert. He admits it.
>BRRRAAAAAAPPPPP
>*sniffs*
>and so on

>> No.10787287

>>10787229
His attachment to Communism is I believe unsubstanciated by his own theory and ultimately a significant limitation on his ability as a thinker. I also find while he's a brilliant psychologist and cultural critic his work with metaphysics and logic is totally derivative and he is unable to escape past his mentors.

>> No.10787289

>>10787127
It's mead, not ale. He's probably Scandinavian.

>> No.10787316

>>10787165
I'm the original guy you responded to. I agree. Though I think individuality is being promoted, but it's simply not there. Think of the Zizeks idea of Kinder Eggs. The toy is individuality and it's used to sell the chocolate. Chocolate in this case being that image which makes everyone boring. They want to appear individual by buying stuff everyone else is. This is what I mean by promoting individuality. It's just a fantasy that is being promoted and not the real thing.

>>10787182
Hello Stacy. Your horoscope is on point today

>> No.10787321

>>10787180
Because you're signaling confidence by pulling off things that others wouldn't have the balls to. Though there's a fine line between pretending to be retarded and being actually retarded

>> No.10787323

>how to classify the person that puts into contrast making and uploading such pictures

this sentence makes no sense. but anyway.

i take a close look at the photo and notice the particulars of it. the sleek glasses, the well-knitted jumper, the craft beer, and the pricey-looking book all indicate middle or upper-middle class. the look on his face is self-satisfied with a hint of insecurity. the picture radiates discomfort. yet displaying the book so prominently one has to wonder if its content is supposed to signify something. but i sincerely doubt it. i sincerely doubt that this person is showing us Sublime Object of Ideology for any reason relating to its content. it is purely a formal gesture, and he has, i think, arbitrarily chosen this book out of many which might be considered 'radical', as if the radicality would shatter the obvious insecurity and unease that permeates this picture.

i think to myself that he does what all those like him do: he exhibits so as to hide away. his brand becomes his personality and he no longer has any responsibility of selfhood.

>> No.10787341

>>10787078
That can't be right. My testosterone levels are abnormally high and my facial hair is even patchier than his.

>> No.10787348

>>10787134
But the mask is you. We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.

>> No.10787351

>>10787341
don't let it get to you. facial hair patterning is purely genetic.

>> No.10787396

>>10787323
good post

>> No.10787402

>>10787316
If people aren't different then why do you read different authors and different books? Just stick with one — it's all the same shit anyway. Originality is a myth, brah. You can as well read nothing because you yourself are essentially no different than Joyce or Homer or any other author be it your contemporary or not.
Fucking brainlets with their edgy concepts.

>> No.10787492

>>10787402
Quite a strawman.
They're all bound by the same ideology. It's not that there's not originality or difference. What is keeping them from being really individual are the limits created by society, limits which can't be avoided. They're operating under the same rules that are dictated by ideology just like anyone else. And just to add, Homer lived in a different time when ideology was different. The only thing we can do with him is try to understand him with the rules and values that we have today. Even trying to learn what they valued back then won't free you from only embracing the ideas of something made by someone from the past, through your perception imposed by todays ideology. There is no escape. You can understand something perfectly, but you'll still operate under ideology.

>> No.10787528

>>10787492
>They're all bound by the same ideology.
First, you are totalazing people and society which is simply wrong. Society consists of plural subsocieties and plural "ideologies". Besides, is there even a thing like "ideology" nowadays? I mean, in it's initial, totalitarian form? I don't think so; it is more appropriate to talk about different social "narratives" or "subideologies".
>What is keeping them from being really individual are the limits created by society
So you are not denying that people do have individuality which is somehow supressed by society? Then your initial premise:
>everything you are has been given to you. you are are a blank canvas the world has painted on.
is wrong.
> Homer lived in a different time when ideology was different
There was no "ideology" back then. Ideology is a product of "modern" thought.
>through your perception imposed by todays ideology
What ideology? Is there any specific, definite and singular ideology today? Tell me about it. And also tell me why I can't escape it if I'm fully aware of it's presence and imposition?

>> No.10787556

>>10787528
You obviously never read Zizeks book which OPs image presented. Reading that will give you a general idea of what I mean. Ideology which I'm talking about is more about values which the society is being presented with than something with a manifesto.

>> No.10787559

>>10787046
A retard. Communism has been completely commodified, which is pretty funny.

>> No.10787570

>>10787556
Better yet, watch his movie Perverts Guide to Ideology and then read the book. It'll show you exactly how we're being presented values through movies, commercials and such

>> No.10787606

>>10787556
I watched his film (when it was a meme).
>Ideology which I'm talking about is more about values which the society is being presented with
But then again, "society" is not a totality. It divides itself into micro-cells and each cell has it's own version of "values". It is simply not that simple.
Zizek point was that capitalism promotes itself through different forms of media. But capitalism ideology is not the only ideology. There are different streams of resistance to it. If you are going to make totalizing conclusions about society judging by pub visitors — well, let's just say that is not quite adequate.

>> No.10787608

>>10787165
>I'm 15 and I just had my first epiphany about society: the post

>> No.10787612
File: 51 KB, 800x600, 1-carbon-fiber-fedora-hat_800x800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787612

>>10787187

>> No.10787622

>>10787289

He's moldovan

t. know people that know him

>> No.10787673

>>10787622
i kno him n i kno u

>> No.10787674

>>10787606
Those values are all limited by the same constraints. Resistance is included in. How pub visitors look like is a consequence of it. I mean, Zizek even analyses toilets for ideology.

>> No.10787679

>>10787187
>thus if you have been given something, how can you claim it to be individual?

Because quite simply I God damn say so

>> No.10787683

>>10787674
>by the same constraints
which constraints?
>Resistance is included in.
resistance is aknowledged by the system but not fully controlled
>How pub visitors look like is a consequence of it.
they are hardly an adequate representation

>> No.10787694

>>10787046
Read some fucking Althusser.

>> No.10787697
File: 218 KB, 289x657, 1515947639094.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787697

>social media
Fucking normalfags i swear

>> No.10787699

>>10787528
Oh, and I'm >>10787556 >>10787120
>>10787137
>>10787145
>>10787674
>>10787556
and a few more posts which I'm too lazy to look for
I'm not the >>10787187 blank canvas dude

>> No.10787700

>>10787699
what is this abomination

>> No.10787732
File: 13 KB, 320x240, 21438-24858.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787732

idk man, i find myself posting less and less shit on social media.

the only things i'm ever in are photos that my gf tags me in. It's just seems like a waste. The fact that this guy probably had to ask somebody to take the photo for him, or staged it himself just sort of shows he's looking for community or identity of some sort imo. [

I have an acquaintance that is 32. About 3 years ago he did acid at some music festival and now he is basically unbearable on all forms of social media and irl. He wears all these stupid necklaces, hasn't cut his hair in years, wears this dumb headband all the time and just generally acts like a manchild. He pretends like he's into buddhism and eastern philosophy but he really just likes smoking pot, looking like a hippy and asian tapestries. He was in a wedding recently and even brought his hippy garb with him to wear to the reception afterwards. It's just sorta sad. He's clearly just trying to find an identity or some way to be happy with himself, but it just comes off as inauthentic and pathetic. It's gotta suck for people to constantly be reaching for something like that.

Long story short, I feel like guy in pic related is just at a younger version of the guy i mentioned, just in a different social archetype.

>> No.10787737

>>10787683
Ideological constraints. Just look at modern so called communists and fascists. They might celebrate 20th century, but we all know that they wouldn't fit in there at all. They can't look at them in any other way. Resistance might not be controlled at all, but it would still be operating under the rules given by ideology. Anything is a good representation of it since it all operates with it. We literally can't perceive reality without it. This is what I mean by constraints. Ideology are not the glasses which obfuscate our view, they're the our eyes, without which we don't have a way of looking at the world.

>> No.10787741

>>10787700
I am who I am. Worship me

>> No.10787752

>>10787741
t. 110 IQ first time on /lit/

>> No.10787758

>>10787737
Not the other OP, but you're right. Context is everything.

I started reading Spengler recently and you can tell that alot of brainlet /pol/ types have not read this. He totally shreds the idea that man in our contemporary era has any concept of how the greek or romans perceived reality. All we have is their symbols that mean something entirely different to us given our civilization at this very moment.

He basically calls out all the LARPers even from 1911

>> No.10787762

>>10787752
Possibly 80 iq. 5 years on /lit/

>> No.10787770

>>10787732
I found that after I graduated high school in 2010 everyone immediately stopped ever posting anything on Facebook barring the occasional profile picture. I have two people on my friends list that actually make posts and I honestly despise them for it

>> No.10787771
File: 44 KB, 409x409, 1436835968755.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787771

>>10787762
Look upon my work ye mighty and despair

>> No.10787776
File: 31 KB, 480x768, abc2a084042abc83e3c588b52a3585ad--big-guy-fashion-chubby-men-fashion-big-guys.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787776

>>10787046
>social media

>> No.10787806
File: 869 KB, 753x706, 1489164416719.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787806

>>10787348
I used to work at a hotel which attracted a fair number of TV stars, B grade media personalities, travel """journalists"" and the like-- they were always the same basic archetype: loud, ostentatiously charming, full of themselves, and for anyone who could see through their veneer of superficiality, completely vapid and uninteresting.

Of course, most people are themselves vapid and uninteresting, and don't even have the social skills to be loudly vapid and uninteresting. Those people then flock to these B-grade celebrities, which confirms their inflated opinion of themselves, and they confuse their never ending stream of social banalities, casual sex, and self righteous vacuousness with being a charismatic person.

My advice, dear anonymous, would be to be yourself as fully as you can be. By this, I mean spend a half hour (minimum) every day writing in a journal, reflecting on your actions and feelings, and trying to work out specifically what kind of person you are and who you want to be. Only speak truthfully, only present an honest version of yourself, and when hit with the inspiration to say something, say it. When you fuck up and insult somebody or say something wrong (and you will), don't fixate on the fact, but reflect on it and try to understand what hidden psychological factors made you act and speak in such a way. Use your reason

At first this is going to seem counter intuitive, none of this will make you more popular, nor will it make people particularly like you more. This isn't the point though. What you want to achieve is to be an unapologetic version of you. Specifically, be the kind of person who, from gut instinct, makes the kinds of actions and says the kinds of things that you can be proud of.

Even if other people don't like you, as long as you can go to bed knowing that you said what you desired to say, and did what you desired to do, and where a good person both in actions and intentions, the idle talk of other people will seem like the chirping of birds while you walk through the woods.

Its important to be sincere here, and act on impulse. If you aren't sincere if you try to put forward some mask or presentation of "who" "you" "are" (lots of people do), then you're mostly fooling yourself, and depriving yourself of an authentic existence. By acting on impulse, you force yourself to make a great many split second mistakes, and by making those mistakes, gain the tools critically examine yourself as you really are, and improve yourself not just superficially but from the deepest depths of your being.

Most people don't even know themselves, so don't let their talk get to you. What's important is that you like yourself, and can go to sleep each night proud of your actions.

>> No.10787930

>>10787806
Good post

>> No.10787933

>>10787737
>Ideological constraints
I need definitions. Just to make sure we are talking about same things.
>Just look at modern so called communists and fascists.
If you are referring to brainlets who mindlessly ape political slogans they are not representative of any ideology. Marxist thought is constantly evolving today so I don't see any reasons for it to be "constrained".
>Resistance might not be controlled at all, but it would still be operating under the rules given by ideology
Which rules? And don't you dare reply to me with "rules of ideology".
> Anything is a good representation of it since it all operates with it.
Pub visitors are not a good representation to make such fundamental claims like "people have no individuality".
>Ideology are not the glasses which obfuscate our view, they're the our eyes, without which we don't have a way of looking at the world.
I clearly understand your phenomenological premise but my point is that the context of our view is heterogenic. "Ideology" is a wrong word to describe this situation.

>> No.10787971

this is why I listen to Joe Rogan. He keeps me down to Earth

>> No.10787979
File: 1.95 MB, 1706x1040, 1497127525961.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787979

>>10787971
ugh

>> No.10787988

>>10787979
you know he's a good guy but you're too obsessed with projecting an image of yourself that you'd never stoop low enough to listen to him. His practical advice is great and he has well formed thoughts on many different societal issues.

>> No.10787989
File: 16 KB, 184x179, phil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787989

>>10787979

>> No.10787994

>>10787988
He's not bad man, i'm just playing around. I just don't like his "DUDE, WEED" and broscience shit.

Beyond that i'm sure he's a cool guy to sling back a few beers with

>> No.10788005

>>10787933
Ideology is what zizek uses so that's what I'll use.

I don't know what else to tell you dude. I can describe it as a part of the unconscious that is here because of society. As for rules... Enjoy is the primary one. Before enjoyment, there was sacrafice. Now, everything that you do, you're expected to enjoy. We're supposed to be able to embrace anything and enjoy even if there's a huge contradiction and conflict of interests.

Nature. Mother nature. Give back blah blah. We're all a part of the whole blah blah. Minimalism. Show how you can use as little things as possible just because you can afford it. Travel/Multiculturalism. Explore other cultures and give back to them because you're better off. Don't feel guilty for being better off, embrace them into the system. Youth is being promoted because if you get them while they're young, you get lifelong customers. Wtf are you doing with your life if you're not young and rich? Enjoy. Feel guilty if you can't enjoy, but make sure to enjoy.

I guess I could give better examples, but these are here just off the top of my head. I'm really not that good at painting ideas, which is why I once again recommend Zizeks book instead of my pseud posts.

>> No.10788033

>>10787994
He interviews people who provide studies which prove most of the broscience into just science. The shit about paleo style diets, exercise, sauna, etc are all real. And if you have read jung and campbell and actually done psychedelics you can buy into the humanist beliefs he has. The only thing that turns off people like you is that he comes off like a brodude and you don't want to affiliate with a brodude image.

>> No.10788054

>>10788005
I'd like to add his example of blue jeans in Yugoslavia. They were not available here (yes I'm a filthy slav) and you had to go to the west to get them. people who wore them were usually those who didn't give a single fuck. But the whole point is that by wearing jeans, they were signaling that they don't give a fuck. This is what I mean when I say that there is no escape from ideology. Even when you don't give a fuck, you give a fuck about not giving a fuck. How did they get these ideas? Yugoslavia was in shambles after Tito died and everything loosened up. Heh, my mom even went to Russia and sold her jeans to ruskies for triple the price, but I digress.

>> No.10788064

>>10788033
It's more like, why spend time listening to Joe Rogan when you could do anything better with your time? To wind down, sure, whatever. If you really enjoy it. The only meaningful thing you can really get out of Rogan is using him as a sort of way to keep the pulse on certain streams of the zeitgeist.

>> No.10788086

>>10788064
Just listen to the one's that are interesting and don't listen to the comedians or mma guys. He gets a scientist or journalist on at least once a week who is selling a book. You get the synopsis and highlights in a couple hours.

>> No.10788108

>>10788086
Sounds like a terrible chore.

“The art of not reading is a very important one. It consists in not taking an interest in whatever may be engaging the attention of the general public at any particular time. When some political or ecclesiastical pamphlet, or novel, or poem is making a great commotion, you should remember that he who writes for fools always finds a large public. A precondition for reading good books is not reading bad ones: for life is short.”
― Arthur Schopenhauer

>> No.10788138

>>10787107
very good point, dear friend

>> No.10788156

>>10788108
Schopenhauer was the original bitter uggo. I wouldn't quote from him.

>> No.10788174

>>10788156
The first one was actually Thersites

>> No.10788202

>>10788174
Be the chad Odysseus, not the bitter virgin hipster

>> No.10788252

>>10788174
Thersites did nothing wrong.

>> No.10788327

>>10788054
>This is what I mean when I say that there is no escape from ideology.
But your example doesn't show it. Blue jeans may serve as a symbol of prestigious comsumption but how you interpret this symbol is based on your own system of values, on your own ideological context. These jeans can invoke jealousy in one person and contempt in an another.
Every person has a set of values and beliefs. Most of them are borrowed from external sources, be it school, church or a favorite TV-show. But what I've been driving at the whole time is that the base principle with which a person borrows this values, his "choice of values", is called "individuality". Why, given the same circumstances, one person chooses one thing and not the other? Why some people become fascits while others become communists in one society, in one ruling "ideology"?
If you stick with the premise that all people are blank slates with no individuality then you will have to also agree that all children are born identical or that they are non-persons because they yet have no context, no ideology implanted in their new-born heads.

>> No.10788570

>>10788327
Again, I'm not the blank slate guy. There are things we're simply born with, but symbols are something that is learned by interacting with society. It's true that symbols can be interpreted in different ways, but they're more likely to be interpreted in ways which better fit today's society. What things mean is defined by society and that's why, although individuals exist, just because our ideology is promoting individuality, we're all doing things which we're doing because of the "values" which are imposed on us. This is why there is not as much difference between people as you might think. I know what you're getting at, I just don't know how to explain it any better. Let me try to approach this with religion. Maybe this is closer to belief than anything. Two dudes might worship different things, but let's say that what they worship is responsible for the existence of rain in one case and fire in the other. And let's assume they're worshiping these gods in a different way so that there's no connection. You might say that they're individual in their beliefs. After all, they're worshiping different gods in different ways. But what stays the same is that they're worshiping something because they need an all powerful figure to explain what they can't. This is the "value" I'm talking about. Maybe it's better to call it a function than a value really... You like LG, I like Samsung... We might be sucking different dicks, but we're still sucking shit like: "THIS YEAR IT'S SLIGHTLY BETTER AND BTW IT'LL DIE IN 2 YEARS BUT WOW IT'S SO GREAT BUY TODAY". You might want to be a clinical psychologist with a Patreon and I want to be an engineer that builds rockets, but we both want to be a figure with some respect and power which can get tremendous enjoyment. We might not be those figures, but we're doing everything we can to be. "But what if I don't want to be that and I want a peaceful life. " Great! Enjoy your peaceful life. Make sure to like mother nature and stuff. Maybe buy a house in the middle of nowhere to get you out of all of that noise. We've got products for you either way... Ehh... I don't know what to tell you anymore... Blue jeans in America also represent some form of freedom wild west cowboy shit I guess. It's how you relate to the world and we all relate to it in same ways... You might be taking a different shit in your toilet, but we're still both shitting into the toilet. Hehe, one could almost say that people from India refusing to use toilets is ideological resistance against American capitalist imperialism, but not really...

>> No.10788651

>>10788327
Or here's an even better example... You're in a room with a button which says that if you press it, one person will die that minute and if you don't pess it, two people will die that minute. Now, this would be ideology.. You can do nothing, but you're still doing something. Fuck, I just realised that this is basically a trolley problem. But that's the point. How the hell are these people on the tracks in the first place, why are you next to them, and why is a train coming this way? Either way, it doesn't matter how the problem is presented because it's still there and the problem itself is ideology.

>> No.10788675

>>10787095
literally where? didnt even know that little sliver existed

>> No.10788679

>>10788570
Two paintings can expose beauty in complete different ways. But there's still Beauty there and it's still great to live in a world where infinity leads to One. It's funny how you and the guy you quote are simultaneously accurate, but your view remains as the reducionist one. Just gratuitous pessimism.

>> No.10788704

>>10788327
Fuck, this will be my third post on the same comment...

I called it "values" because there can be different functions/problems in a society just like there were through history. You can think in a different way today, but it just won't make any sense because it won't fit into with society. Zizek goes so far as to say that Marx created capitalism without exploitation and called it communism. Then you look at Stalin and realise that he recreated the power structure which existed before, but instead of using LG, he used Samsung. He was basically a king there. Also look at China. Do you think their ideology is communist? Fuck no. They're authoritarian capitalism. They're getting their workers into de facto slavery to foreign companies. They just use communism as a cover up. They're also very deeply involved in the ideology which we have today.

Zizek connected ideology by Marx and Unconscious by Freud and that's what I'm getting at.

>>10788679
I have to be reductionist. Should I define him symbolic, imaginary, and real? Using these shitty metaphors is the best that I can do

>> No.10788706

>>10787065
Pretentious hipster. I've known many.

>> No.10789177

>>10788704
>>10788651
>>10788570
The "individual core" of every person manifests itself in an incalculable variety of ways and at various intensities. Some "individual cores" hardly manifest at all and you get yourself with all those mindless poeple from the pub, living their non-authentic lives, trying to fit in some sort of a preset image. But some people are different than that. Basicly this "core" manifests in person's deeds and actions, choices and words. Of cource, there are forces in human nature that drive us all indifferently — sexual desire, will to power, you name it. We are all subjects to these forces but we comply to them in different ways. It becomes explicity clear in the case of sexual desire — each one of us has it's own set of preferences for a sexual partner.
Life always puts us in situations of choice, although one might add that we are often responsible for getting in these situations in the first place. But that's not the point. Some choice situations are lax and some are extremely rigid (like a trolley problem). In a rigid situation we don't have much of a choice (every solution seems undesirable or slightly distinct from each other) so the possibility of expressing our individuality (core) is severely limited. Rigid choices say little or nothing at all about our personalities. It's like choosing between Pepsi or Coke — you can't make any conclusions about a person from this kind of choice, like people who chose coke are more predisposed to being a faggot (I prefer Pepsi btw).
Rigid choices can create an illusion that people act similar. But that is not the case — they just don't have a chance to express their individuality. And practically all our everyday choices are rigid: choice of clothes, drinks, routes, etc.
A person can express his "individual core" only through lax choices, in a situation that require creativity. Tests vs essays. There exists a wide-spread psychological test: a teacher gives students a task to draw a tree on a piece of paper. The task is same but every tree is going to be different. What I'm driving at is that creativity is the utmost form of self-manifestation, the most lax form of choice. But most people live eschewing lax choices. But it doesn't mean that they don't have personality, their "cores" are simply undeveloped, not actualized in Aristotelian sense.
Interacting with an ideology is a situation of a lax choice. One can make this choice rather quickly by simply adopting an ideology without any criticism. But some people can approach this issue with more criticism. That is where excentric ideologies are born.
Fuck I spent an entire hour writing this post.