/lit/ - Literature

>>10753588

>>10753620
Lmao damn

>>10753620

>one of the Gothic DVD games
>confusing Gothic with Morrowind
>DVD games

60 year old philosophers talking about video games always produces interesting results.

>>10753631

Gothic II was so god damn good.

>>10753631
not to shit on your parade, but the Nerevarine prophecy is nothing like this, I think the Zek knew what work he was about

>>10753588
The 36 lessons

>>10753657

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtFkIdanNEs

>>10753620
what book of his?

>>10753620

>>10753631
a 60 year old now would have been 25 in 1982 when the sinclair zx spectrum was released
he's probably been playing video games longer than you have been alive

>>10753669
>believing anything Arctus wrote wasn't plagiarized

>>10753588
There's nothing like Morrowind... the game caused me to have an existential epiphany during high school and probably saved my life. I think of it as more of a work of literature than a game

>>10753588

>>10754159
thank god someone noticed this is the best game in the elder scrolls series, and one of the best rpgs of all time

>>10754159
>>10754174
What makes it good? Has it aged at least okish?
I've recently played KOTOR for the first time, and am in the mood for old rpgs

>>10754174

>>10754174
>best elder scrolls

Other than Daggerfall, you mean

>>10753588
There isn't one, really. Almost every story has a named protagonist that the author controls, and the reader can only react to the narrative. Morrowind is all you. You choose what to believe. Kind of like another fucking amazing story, Fallout: New Vegas and the Ulysses-Courier arc. You find out your origin story at the end of the Lonesome Road DLC, but since the game literally begins with you recovering from a shot to the head you don't have any memory before that and can only choose what to believe.

If I really had to say I'd choose Borges and his brand of magical realism. And on the non-fic side, Campbell and Jung.

>>10754201
quiet n'wah

>>10754189
it has the best story and comfiest environments of any TES game. just be sure to read all the dialogue, immerse yourself in the game, take time to read the books and accept that it is a slow game. also I would highly recommend a list of mods but I don't know where you could get them these days.

>>10754218
>non-fic
>Jung
Top meme

>>10754198
Mod those fuckers out of the game if you ever replay it.

alright i made a list anyway. find these on tesnexus or wherever the fuck you can, it's been like 15 years.

>>10754201
i wanna play through daggerfall but i heard its buggy and that u can get stuck in an unwinnable state and that kinda scared me off, i hate using walkthroughs and shit but if i cant figure out a part ill always have a nagging feeling that im stuck on one of those showstopper bugs, but ya daggerfall looks p sick

if u like daggerfall u gotta play ultima underworld 1 and 2, not as "epic" as elderscrolls but super immersive (if u can get over the pixelated graphics)

>>10754198
ok that part was maybe a mistake lol but i think the point was ur not supposed to just walk around in the blighted shit all day

>>10754201
Daggerfall is great, but the procedurally generated countryside makes it age poorly.

>>10754245
daggerfall is garbage

ultima underworld 1 and 2... christ i was playing those in 1997 and they felt outdated. the controls are shit, the graphics are worse than Doom, and the story blows goats.

Morrowind has literally the best fictional world ever portrayed in a video game, and possibly wider. It makes sense historically, culturally and mythologically, there are various religious and social conflicts that have believable and multi-faceted causes, and the factions disagree about fundamental events in history since there isn't the authorial voice of God telling you what happened. The story is as deep as you want it to be, you can follow the basic plot of the main quest, or dive deep into Dunmer lore that will blow your mind and make you question every claim made by NPCs. The geography of the place is utterly unique and interesting, nothing like traditional high fantasy. The Dunmer themselves are genuinely alien, comprising an ancient society with a living pantheon of Gods, as brutal as they are spiritual and compelling.

I seriously doubt the worldbuilding in Morrowind will ever get topped, no game since has touched it.

>>10754263
>played them in 1997

the first one came out in 1992 bro, and did u not notice that it's actually 3d unlike the fake doom 3d? doom was the first time i played a pvp death match over a modem, doom was innovative, but the uw engine was better, the story was better, the graphics were about even...doom isn't even an rpg u brainlet

>>10754273
yea bro in 1992 I was playing Dragon Wars, which came out in 1988. in 96 I was playing Dungeon Hack which came out in 93. I've always been behind the gaming curve, even now.

>>10754268
this guy knows whatsup, morrowind ain't gonna be matched, and especially after what bethesda did with fallout4 and never will be

although everyone tells me ultima 7 parts 1+2 is the greatest rpg of all time, sadly it feels super dated now graphics wise, and at the time when it was brandnew i couldn't get a cracked version and i didn't have money to blow like 100 bucks to get both versions plus the expansions

>>10754279
lol i used to stay on top of it, but now that im old as shit, i just wait and cop the shit on steam like 5 years later for 3 bucks or whatever, but i haven't had a gamign console since the 90s, probably when i retire and im sitting around waiting to die ill cop a bunch of console and play through like 50 years of jap shit

>>10754284
please don't mention Fallout 4 it's bad enough knowing it exists.
my favorite RPG story was Baldur's Gate series. The fact that you were a demigod in a highlander like fight for survival and surrounded by fucking useless idiots was perfect. also, the power level was kept nicely in check adding tension to the plot/playing experience

>>10754305
i barely remember baldur's gate, and i didn't play the second one, i feel like ad&d rules don't work well for crpgs (or rpgs in general) because when you're in the early levels one hit from any scrub enemy can kill you, like in morrowind even if ur naked with a stick a mudcrab can't one shot u, but in ad&d some bitchass kobold can one shot ur mage since the mages hp is rolled on one 4 side per level, wtf...

did u ever play any of those gold box fuckers like pool of radiance? those seemed to rad at the time, but probably because i just didn't play anything else yet

>>10754268
We need to get Kirkbride to do something

>>10754318
yeah since the game ended if your character died, it was EXTREMELY difficult to play the game as a mage due to death being imminent. I liked that. I never played pools of radiance but I played a ton of the Icewind Dale Series which I rank as in the top ten favorite games ever made. They are pretty much hack and slash tales using I think a modified 3rd edition rule set

>>10754330
wtf is kirkbride the dude who wrote morrowind or sth? yeah man tell him to get a kickstarted up or sth if thats him

did u see some dudes are tryna make a new ultima underworld? doubt it can match the original since the engine won't be nearly as groundbreaking, but still im copin it day one

>http://store.steampowered.com/app/692840/Underworld_Ascendant/

>>10754189
>What makes it good? Has it aged at least okish?
Unfortunately not, but it can be improved visually with the MGE (morrowind graphics extender) and all of Darknut's retextures. The combat is sub par, but combat was never Elder Scrolls strong point anyway... Morrowind is about the characters, setting, and story

pic is what my game looks like

>>10754343
oh no i mean the really old school one, i think it was the first ad&d crpg, they also did a bunch of dragonlance games using the same engine, i wonder why no more games have been licensed to use that ip, pretty sure those books still sell reasonable well

>>10754356
nope, never played those. looks like it would eat up wayyyy too much of my time. I have a nasty habit of always restarting games halfway through to see how else it can be played

>>10754349
Looks a bit like Mount and Blade
I can live with that

>>10754284
Ultima 7 graphics aged like wine, only bad thing in it is the retarded automatic combat. With combat like the old ones it would be flawless.

>>10754390
Can look even better than M&B if you put a little work into modding it.

sometimes I dream of a world where Morrowind has M&B combat... there could never be a better game

>>10754491
ya after an hour or two i get used to pixelated graphics, and it looks so fucking dank, i don't want to deprive myself of a classic rpg experience, i'll have to play, btw anyone played martian dreams? i had a really slow 286 computer back then so to go to the other side of mars i put a book on my trackball button and let it run for like an hour or two...there was probably a shortcut somewhere but oh well fuckit

Whining about bad graphics and outdated UIs is like whining about ancient literature. Stick with it.

>>10754549
yes!

>>10754491
>>10754284
Ultima 7 The Black Gate and Serpent Isle were my fucking jam back in the late 90s. Exult is a great way to play, just be sure your resolution isn't set too high or you'll get triggers that fail to go off in a few places and it kills the main quest.

Ring of Shal is some real shit.

>>10754189
I've tried playing it once and the gameplay ended up being too rough for me, no matter how good the atmosphere or story might be. Personally I'll just wait for the port to the Skyrim engine to be completed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PewuaPKnhnc
>>10754549
No, that's a shitty analogy. The technology of literature itself hasn't changed, just the form and style. Games are much more complex technologically and old games were made with the technology still in its infancy. It's a different thing with Super Mario or Chrono Trigger or something, but in early 3D games the gameplay has aged really poorly and usually isn't worth slogging through just to learn the story.

As someone whose favourite game is Skyrim, should I play Morrowind or Oblivion? Don't say both please I barely have time for one.

>>10754574
u kno what is is that fucking gothic font man, the graphics are actually pretty crisp, i'll get used to a few pixels, but idk if i can deal with the font man, maybe ill get used it

>>10754606
morrowind, to be fair i didn't play oblivion just played an hour or two here and there on friends saves, oblivion had this weird leveling system that made it so where ever u go the level is the same as your character or sth, idk it fucked it up for me

>>10754606
Skyrim is a direct improvement of Oblivion both in story and gameplay. I played it for the first time after having completed Skyrim multiple times and it was okay, just good enough to finish.

>>10754218
I refuse to belive that borges has anything to do with magical realism, i hate gabriel garcia marquez

>>10754615
Fraktur, n yea you'll get used to it. The Kilrathi easter egg in your pic blew my underage mind, having been a Privateer fan.

"We create worlds" indeed

>>10754606
Morrowind. Oblivion is plagued by a leveling problem as >>10754621 said so all the npcs are just these big meat shields that are frustrating to deal with. the only way around that I saw was to become a vampire but that can ruin the I M M E R S I O N. plus you can fly around and shit in morrowind and just do your own thing in general.

if u like old shit make sure to play lands of lore, it's basically like eye of the beholder, hack and slash thing, but just super well executed, great graphics for 300x200 vga, good soundtrack, well paced, decent leveling system, story is ok, the sequels sucked, but the first one is quite memorable for some reason, i guess just because it was fun, idk

>>10754641
>plus you can fly around and shit in morrowind and just do your own thing in general.

dude, did u see that 7 minute speed run? that shit blew my mind, if u take that scroll of jumping or whatever u find in the first area and jump all the way to the center of the game u can finish it in less than ten minutes

>>10754659
>Morrowind Speedrun in 3:14
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gON5k2kw3as

holy shit

wasn't the morrowind writer (kirkbride) into a lot of psychedelics when he wrote the plot?
like living moving cities for one of the elf races and a a huge jungle in cyrodil that had to be retconned?

I think the whole CHIM aspect of Morrowind (I believe Vivec talks a lot about it) was supposed to be the most obvious influence of drugs in the game world

>>10754667
>>10754659
yeah it's nuts I laughed my ass off when I watched that. I invested like a hundred hours to legit beat that game and this guy is doing it like that. crayzee daddy

>>10754677
I think you are referring to the Graht - Oaks which are the moving trees/cities of Bosmer. Then there is also the Hist, a telepathic tree that is mentally linked with a caste of argonians and can basically bend their will. the frank nature of drug usage in general is probably a tip off.

>>10754695
plus there are dudes living in big ass mushrooms n shit

>>10754201
Daggerfall is better than Morrowind in areas such as dungeoneering, combat, RPG mechanics but accumulates as a whole lesser than Morrowind. The mass procedural generation and uniformity, especially of NPCs does not create an engaging world, the main appeal of such games. Graphically, far inferior to Morrowind, though the equipment art on the character sheet is good the lack of distinquishment between areas and characters is very bland. In writing, Morrowind is again superior by far. Daggerfall is a better dungeon crawler, but not a better experience or game.

>>10754198
ptsd

>>10753588
is is its own equivalent

https://www.imperial-library.info/

also Oblivion had the best OST

>>10753588
the history of the jews

>>10754349
>combat is sub par
You mean fucking impossible, you don't hit anything even if you line up to, couldn't get past early stages because of it and was forced to give up

>>10755296
>guy couldn't handle the combat in morrowind

this is the STATE of fags who play jrpgs

>>10755295
it always seemed more islamic to me, like the elves in the tents were like the taliban and the empire was like brits/america and the fancy elves were maybe saudis or something but i guess i could see that interpretation too

>>10754218
borges is not magical realism.

>>10754677
Vivec doesn't talk about CHIM at all to the player and it's hardly the biggest influence of drugs in the game. It's basically just lucid dreaming for characters that have realized the whole of reality is but a dream.

>>10755305
really screams jews to me because of the temple and the velothi exodus but really it's just heavily semitic i guess. the tribunal are very yahwehesque, too, in how fickle and violent they can be. not to mention all of the feuds between temple doctrine, history, the secular and orthodox houses, etc.

>>10753588
Probably all the books they ripped off.

>>10755342
And what makes you think there are any? Surely the writers of the world and story were influenced by books. But to say they ripped anything off is a different claim entirely and I'm interested in what you would bring as examples.

Any time I read up on the Bedouin or Berbers I am nostalgic for Morrowind. A few years ago, when Gaddafi was toppled, you had a perfect example of desert nomads coming in from the Sahara to defend the Libyan regime out of traditional respect and old tribal agreements. However, the Sufi nomads did not feel all-together welcome by the established Sunni-based militias, and so you had infighting between the two while attempting to defend against the encroaching foreign coalition powers.

Gaddafi had been one of the only leaders in the region to recognize their nomadic traditions and granted them privileges to move freely throughout Libya.

>>10755296
Ah yes, we've been expecting you... another fool trying to fight when their stamina is low

>>10755424
the same thing happened when shooter mongs tried to play system shock 2, they're like "omg the combat is unpossible!" its like its a fucking stealth game ya god damn idiot shoot the fucking surveillance camera so u dont get spammed with security durrr that game was so good but plebs didnt get it

>>10755404
>mfw Gaddafi was King Hlaalu Helseth

>>10755430
And if they still find the combat too unforgiving they can choose the sign of the lover to basically play the game on babby mode

>>10753588

I can safely say that Vivec is the most realized character in videogame fiction. Period.

If a hermaphroditic, bug-armored, bipolar god-king existing in multiple universes who has his very own bible with *actual* magic strewn throughout it is your idea of a cliche, then I really would like to live in your world. It sounds fun and new.

But, wait, then I'd have to inexplicably make snarky and insulting comments in a forum where creators often tread. And that would quickly make me boorish and prone to cliched Angry Youngster Angst. That's the interwebs for you and good luck with it.

I can also say that Morrowind is the finest novel written in videogame fiction. A 40 hour narrative whose main character is only ever referenced is almost Nabokovian in aspiration, and prophecies whose truth is determined only by the player is akin to Borges if he only had been born with a USB port in the back of his beloved neck.

There is a fine line between celebrated tradition tuned to masterstrokes by its crafters and cliche'd demons underneath volcanos. Morrowind is the former, Selbeth, and nowhere near the latter. Except, again, when wrapped 'round electric peanuts tossed from the back row with bright'n'shiny underscores for effect.

>>10755434
Gaddafi was granted leadership because of connections in the occupational western government?

>>10755598
>Nabokovian
zesty

>>10754227
You get everything on Nexus mods.

>>10754981
Oblivion was my first elder scrolls game and it is one of my favorite games. The soundtrack, the characters and the atmosphere are all amazing. I remember staying up late with my friend when we were about 10 to play the knights of the nine dlc.

>>10753620
Is zizek serious or is his entire career just one big fucking joke?

>>10755711
Both *schniff*

>>10755404
It's obvious Cyrodiil is Rome and Skyrim, Valenwood, Resdayn etc. are client states. Morrowind itself is not Judea because it's so weird and otherworldy and the religion is esotheric and alien.

Daggerfall's little medieval mediterranean thing was pretty good

>>10755756
That is why Morrowind remains my favourite. The others are not necessarily bad games but they feel cliche.

>>10756095
It's the environment
>lmao roman christian empire
>lmao we wuz conan n shiet

While in Morrowind

>aedra, daedra
>vivec, sotha sil and almalexia
>what the fuck are those striders?
>well this book I read sounds pretty interesting
>disappearance of the dwemer
>ash and blight n shiet
>swamps and pampas and fertile land and rolling hills
>5 different types of architecture
>many many dungeons, none of them overcrowded and of quite a few variations that suggest who and if you'll be fighting inside but not necessarily
>a dozen(competing) factions
>creatures strange and alien
>weird plants and shrooms and trees
>competing religions and creeds that you get to explore in detail

It felt so complete and unique

>>10756112
>>many many dungeons, none of them overcrowded and of quite a few variations that suggest who and if you'll be fighting inside but not necessarily
Agree with the rest but this is just wrong. The dungeons were all the same (and the secondary quests too).

>>10756112
Don't forget that even the weakest level 1 punk in a dungeon had a unique name.

>>10754349
Nah. The graphics are fine.

>>10756118
>daedric shrines
>caves
>dwemer ruins
>telvanni towers
>dunmer strongholds

Pretty varied, and you kind of knew what to expect when entering one, but not always

>>10756122
And all of them culture specific. It all felt so alive and complete

>>10754189
Dragon Age: Origins
The last of old RPGs, can be played isometrically.

>>10756464
>Dragon Age
Absolute plebian trash

>>10757217
This. Played it once, can't remember shit about it

>>10754198
Just get a bow you pansy.

>>10755296
Honestly git gud. I've never had a problem with the combat and I used to play it on a laptop without mouse or controller.

>>10756464
Wrong. Divinity: Original Sin takes up the mantle.

>>10754268
not saying its on the same level but new vegas' world had some intriguing conflict between the different political philosophies of the main factions, esp. for 2010

>Zero good fanfics or novels set in Tamriel
I guess we got an awesome amount of lore and books from the games already, but somehow I'm missing something.
Warhammer got boatloads of books, so did Halo, Warcraft and even Masseffect if I remember right.
I really would love to see what a good writer can do with the setting and lore in form of a book.

bump

Mason & Dixon reminds me a lot of wRPGs, with lots of "sidequests" that are more interesting than the main one. It is the only book by Pynchon I have read, are the other ones like this?

>>10756112
I fucking wish Skyrim was Conan inspired

>>10758608
Nah. Skyrim would have been better if it would have stayed closer to the already established lore and the concept art from early on.
Stone singing mages, sky whales blowing LSD from their blow-holes etc.
TES is best if it sticks with it's crazy and more unique setting.

not trolling

it's also not a bad thing either

>>10758667
>TES is best if it sticks with it's crazy and more unique setting.

this is why I would love a game set in Black Marsh/Argonia

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/argonian-account
>A noxious wind blew across the Commerce Road, casting patterns in the endless featureless expanse of reeds. In the distance, there seemed to be mountains, but they constantly shifted, and Scotti realized they were banks of mist and fog. Shadows flitted across the landscape, and when Scotti looked up, he saw they were being cast by giant birds with long, saw-like beaks nearly the size of the rest of their bodies.
>"Hackwings...Like everything else in this damnable place, they'll eat you if you don't keep moving."

bump

>>10758838
they'd ruin it in order to make it more appealing to the plebs

>>10753588

Is there any other game that comes close to providing a realised interesting original world with politics that actually make sense? The only similar ones I can think of is Fallout 1, 2 and NV.

Also in a similar fashion I unironically enjoyed the politics in the star wars prequels, fictional politics if done right is good shit.

>>10753588
Player-made modpacks. Friend showed me what he was playing and it had fucking Finnegans Wake references.

>>10758023
DOS2 is shite. The writing is shite, the gameplay is worse. Graphics are okay though. It's exactly the sort of game I'd expect to see some sad act UK neet playing endlessly in his government subsidized housing. It is the government cheese of CRPGs.

actually I think the thing that bothers me the most about DOS2 is the lack of a coherent world.

you play some lamebrain (or a premade character) who has survived a wreck and i guess there's a kingdom out there somewhere but you won't see it because you're shipwrecked also there may be a historical timeline that could provide context for the magical realm you find yourself in but there are no books about it and no one talks to you unless they are fulfilling some part in a quest. apparently some big bad evil won big back in the day but he's gone now or something? don't think too much about it pleb just keep clicking and grinding.

>>10759647

Not an RPG, but Alpha Centauri had an aesthetic and self-contained/unique lore that makes it feel on-par with Morrowind to me (in delivery, if not in depth). That game is art.

>>10753620
Kek I love this, an amalgamation of confusions. Gothic 1-2 was quite popular in europe back then and I bet it was his autism to change video game to DVD game.

couldn't even search it for 30 sec, just to be sure. I would love to see if he said Zurin Arctus tbqh.

>>10754268
>>10754284
>>10754330
>>10758067
Sweetspot, Morrowind hit a sweetspot.
It was neither completely alien, nor very familiar. You were greated by human legionaries but just nearby there was a bug, used for transporting people and goods. The races were both familiar, humans elves and orcs and unfamiliar the beast races. There was a sweetspot where you had some familiar ground but also exploring uncovering the unknown. It was neither completely bizarre nor generically bland.

Moreover the details also hit a sweetspot neither generic nor lore heavy, It had heavy lore but it did not force feed it to you. I think that appealed to a lot of different players, power players who cared little less just focused on the game and advancement, while for the curious there were many chunks of lore, plot, characters to consume.

Those sweetspots are what made Morrowind the most atmospheric game I have ever played. What a shame no such thing will never come back. I never had the feeling of Morrowind, the sense of unknown in modern games, even the ones done by respectable developers like Obsidian. Pillars also took place in an unknownish land, had different races, an interesting role but something was missing. I don't know what but I think it is related to this sweespot.

>>10761510
forgot pic

>>10755711
yes

>>10761510
Planescape Torment is the closest I've gotten to replicating my Morrowind nostalgia.

>>10759698
yes, 2 is. the original is far better.

>>10754349
Where was that screenshot taken? That looks like the boat at Seyda Neen but what temple is in the background then?

>>10753620
THIS is Zizek?!? Holy shit this is the most pseud " insight " I have ever seen. This reminds me of my freshman year papers.

>>10763771
It's Vivec, you can see the meteor, the Morrowind map is actually pretty compact once you remove the draw distance but it doesn't stop it from still feeling expansive while still filled with stuff.

>>10763771
looks like temple is vivec's place, screenshot taken from that city to the southeast of vivec, ebonheart i think

>>10763771
>>10763798
>>10763806
It's in Seyda Neen, just outside the census office. MGE was used to turn down the distance fog, so you can see Vivec in the distance