/lit/ - Literature

>>10746223
They're literally the official philosophy of reddit, what did you expect?

>virtue ethics

>>10746223
>simple is bad
Are you the kind of person who literally can't make ethical decisions without consulting a moral codebook?

>>10746223
If you’ve read all of Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus, and then a good chunk of Cicero and Montaigne, and even some Schopenhauer and Shakespeare for good measure, and still think the same, then good on ya for at least thinking for yourself.

>>10746245
>even some Schopenhauer and Shakespeare

lol fuck right off

>>10746242
If you don't have a rigorously grounded justification for your actions you're not "making a moral decision" you're just flitting about like an animal

>>10746242
There's nothing wrong with simplicity, but when my grandad says the same shit, It's like, 'Why am I reading this?'

stoicism is pic related: the philosophy.

>>10746356
Source for this bold claim?

>>10746356
that's not Stoic at all, you're thinking of utilitarianism.

>>10746369
Its pretty much stoicism except instead of the third panel he says "Durr it happened so no reason to be upset"

>>10746362
>>10746369
“Choose not to be harmed — and you won’t feel harmed. Don’t feel harmed — and you haven’t been.” – Marcus Aurelius

"Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions—not outside."
- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

anxiety, rage, fear are warnings, they are functinal emotions, you cant brainwash yourself to be this inmutable zombie unaffected by anything. why not kys instead? same thing.

>>10746392
Its literally the coping mechanism of an infamous cuckold
"Y-you might have fucked my wife but you didn't hurt me if I decide I didn't want her anyway!"

What about mixing stoicism... with epicurism?

>>10746383
the justification for not being upset is very different. the Stoic doesn't consider the thief's happiness as a positive thing even for the thief, since it is not a virtuous happiness. the Stoic is also able to take practical steps toward regaining his bike or prosecuting the thief, since those are things that are in his control.

it's also perfectly true that there's no reason to be upset that your bike was stolen. anything that you can do to change things, you can do better calmly. everything else has happened regardless and won't change no matter how upset you get.

!

>>10746392
But sometimes they are not.
Why should I be punished twice because someone stole my bike, what do I gain by getting upset over it?
Not everyone reacts with uncontrollable anger to a stolen bike, that means that it's truly within your control to react calmly.
Obviously you can never act like a stoic sage, but you can aspire to act like one.
In doing so, you'll lead a much calmer, more satisfying life.

>>10746223
>that bird
Nightmarish creature, fuck that.

>>10746354
Don't be edgy and respect your grandparents, kid

>>10746417
>since it is not a virtuous happiness

Says who?

>>10746398
Holy shit the straw man.
Does anyone in /lit/ even reads at all?

>>10746426
>the state is fucking us hard, lets take action, lets overthrow those fuckers
>wow dude just calm and chill, its all in ur head bro ;)
the perfect ideology for our current """democracies""".

>>10746417
>it's also perfectly true that there's no reason to be upset that your bike was stolen. anything that you can do to change things, you can do better calmly. everything else has happened regardless and won't change no matter how upset you get.

Absolutely retarded and shows a brainlet cuck mentality that doesn't understand the basics of how the human mind works.
If you're angry about something you're more likely to think of solutions for it and more likely to take necassry actions towards those solutions

Hence how stoics end up as cucks when they just allow people to walk all over them because muh calm reason is a pit

>>10746392
>anxiety, rage, fear are warnings, they are functional emotions
warnings are only useful until they have brought attention to the actual danger. a fire alarm is a warning too, but once it has fulfilled its warning function, you switch it off as soon as possible. it doesn't help to actually put out the fire. it's the same with anxiety. Stoicism teaches you to deal with anxiety, rage, fear etc. more effectively, it does not teach you to be oblivious to the things they warn you about.

>>10746442
Retard, stoicism isn't passivity.
If someone is fucking you and its within your control to stop it, it is stoic to do so.
You have reddit tier understanding of philosophy.

pic related is stoicisms endgame.

to naturalize the unnatural, to block any human expression towards claiming whats yours, fair, and of common sense. its "all in your head", so you ought to fix YOUR emotions, dont fix the world and its insanity, no, we cant allow you to think in those terms.

>>10746453
>Retard, stoicism isn't passivity.

Not in theory but in practice it totally is

>>10746479
Maybe for you.

>>10746487
>my own brand of stoicism isnt cucked!
then its not stoicism you fag, its just being level headed.

>>10746356
>>10746392
You’re confusing passive utilitarianism with stoicism. Here are the differences
>passive utilitarianism: my bike got stolen recently. By examining my happiness, my use of the bike, and the thiefs desire, clearly he wanted it more than me. The total happiness increased, and the theft is… whatever
>Stoicism: my bike got stolen recently. Throwing a fit won’t get it back, getting angry won’t get it back. I will not get emotional, and will either find my original bike or get a new bike.

>>10746487
No anyone. The human mind evolved emotions for a reason, we're not perfect machines capable to analyzing a situation perfectly and developing a clear 100% objective solution. We have gut instincts and emotions to make up through intuitive reasoning what our conscious mind can never do

In one way or another a stoic will always be a cuck because he denies the fiery spirit that made life possible to begin with

>>10746472
You are retarded brainlet shitposter that talks about things he knows nothing about.

>>10746447
>If you're angry about something you're more likely to think of solutions for it and more likely to take necessary actions towards those solutions
I tend to find that the decisions I make while angry, anxious or afraid are more irrational and unproductive than those I make while calm and collected but perhaps things work differently for you.

But if anger helps you because you find solutions, what's the point in being angry about things you can't change? There is no solution to those things, you're submitting yourself constantly, for no good reason, to the unpleasant emotional warning signals of a problem that you already know about.

>>10746505
>I tend to find that the decisions I make while angry, anxious or afraid are more irrational and unproductive

Yeah because you're a stupid cuck. Sucks to be you

>>10746479
Marcus Aurelius was waging war for his entire life as emperor. Doesn't sound very passive to me.

>>10746505
>what's the point in being angry about things you can't change?

How do you know you can't change them if you don't let yourself be angry?
Again cuck logic, a stoic gives up and declares things impossible where better men fight on

>>10746494
>I will not get emotional, and will either find my original bike or get a new bike.
do you fucks know anything about human beings?

>i will not get emotional
sure you faggot, emotion is what prompts action. the intensity of pursuing the bike (calling the cops and filling paperwork, wasting days on it) is directly related to the feelings that push you to it. you need anger to push the cops to do their job and to call them incessantly. if there are no feelings, you wont pursue back the bike, as simple as that, you simp.

>>10746518
If he was any good at it then he wouldn't have to have been at war his entire life

>>10746518
but he wanted his proles to be passive. to submit to the emperor with a willing attitude. funny how it works, huh?

>>10746434
Says the kid who got his bike stolen. Which is actually all that's needed.

>>10746472
You clearly have a false impression of Stoicism.
Stoics claim that virtue is the sole good, if the world isn't virtous and need to be "fixed" the stoics would advocate for it.
Is Marcus Aurelius, a roman emperor that fought many wars through his lifetime, a fucking passive cuck?

>>10746479
>>10746491
It's not in theory nor in practice.
>>10746501
That kind of argumentation is so fucking retarded.
Nature gave us all sorts of fucked up shit that is totally useless today, if something is being a proven negative for you, why the fuck would you not work towards eliminating it, making you a more complete rational being?
Would you oppose an appendectomy because
>"Hurr N-Nature g...gave us an appendix for a reason! im not a cuck!
Pathetic.

>>10746520
This, at the very least the anger will prompt you to be more attentive in future

>>10746520
So crying and screaming is how you get what you want? How does that work?

>it's another teenage autist that hates order, responsibility, and virtue spergs out at a strawman of the stoics thread.

>>10746530
>if something is being a proven negative for you, why the fuck would you not work towards eliminating it

Because in life we have a billion and one different things to think about, there's no "complete rational" way to prioritize them

>>10746531
>>10746520
You don't need to be angry to do all of that, can't you brainlets see that?
You can do all of that while remaining calm, that is clearly preferable.

>>10746537
lmao are you actually a woman? Because you sound like my sister

>>10746547
lmao you are the one closer to a woman.
>OH NO MY BIKE IS STOLEN :(( IM SO SAD :(( I CAN'T WAIT TO TELL STACY ABOUT HOW SAD I AM :(( WHY DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME OH NO :((

>>10746540
without emotion, there is no action.

>>10746540
Because we don't live in your autistic dream world where the perfect solution to everything is just a maths equation away
We live in the world where billions of years of history instilled in us certain thought processes that ensured we survive and reproduce

If the world were run by stoics we'd still be in the dark ages. It's easy to look at emotions and think that they're a destructive force but the reality is they're one of the most effective catalysts of change. The only difference between a stoic and a hedonist is that the stoic is less productive.

>>10746556
This, emotion is fundamentally desire. Without desire there is no action and without action you let yourself be cucked

stoics = low energy cucks with low energy emotions, small emotioned faggots, you think the world is the same as you passionless doormats

>>10746573
>>10746564
>>10746560
>>10746558
(You)
Stop being an autistic faggot and instead of pulling absolutely retraded strawmans of stoicism actually go ahead and read epictetus.

>>10746556
Stoicism isn't about being emotionless, you don't understand Stoicism.

>>10746598
Then whats it about, gormless platitudes?
Because thats all thats left when you remove its opposition to emotions

>>10746587
>>10746598

A real stoic would never care that other people don't understand stoicism.
Sorry guys you're out, turn in your chastity belts.

there are whole symphonies that were written motivated only by consuming anger because of a cuck affair of the whore wife of the composer. he wrote it becuase of his anger. you supress the anger, you dont get the music, or you get some unspired shit. all the best things in this world are born of overflown emotions.

>>10746604
It's not opposition to emotions. You can feel emotions just as strongly. It's not allowing those emotions to control your actions.

>>10746607
this. it reminds me of the occult thread with level 60 master magicians calling each other samefag and pleb and getting all out of shape in butthurt for a typo or shit like that, so much for the elite illuminated individuals.

>>10746613
Ridiculous proposition, if you feel an emotion then its influencing your actions by definition

>>10746519
>How do you know you can't change them if you don't let yourself be angry?
complete non sequitur. anger alerts you to a problem, it does not tell you whether or not there is a solution.

if your house was robbed, and when you got back your burglar alarm was going off, you wouldn't leave the alarm going, claiming that it helped you to think. you wouldn't say "burglar alarms have a function, which is to let me know I have been burgled. if I switch the alarm off, I am just pretending that the burglary didn't happen." but apparently with anger you do think this way.

>a stoic gives up and declares things impossible where better men fight on
but many things are impossible to change, including but not limited to every single thing that has ever happened in the past. if the better man wants to waste his time fighting on when things actually are impossible to change, he's welcome to.

>>10746509
so presumably you think road rage is the best way to drive and murders of passion are the best way to solve relationship issues. are you a sociopath? be honest please.

>>10746604
Stoicism isn't opposed to emotions you brainlet, obviously being happy is not bad, do you have anything else to contribute other than strawmans?
Did you read any Stoic literature at all?
>>10746607
Who said I was a Stoic?
Secondly, even if I was a Stoic, i would be right in caring about you understanding Stoicism.
Virtue is the sole good, if i can make you more virtuous then it's definitely worth my time.

>>10746623
>anger alerts you to a problem, it does not tell you whether or not there is a solution.

No it does not merely alert you to a problem it fixates you on it. It encourages a level of intense thought and energy. Hence it does directly lead to you potentially finding a solution

>>10746613
if you take an observer position regarding your emotions, thats called disociation, its what torture victims do when raped, they just drift out to a safe zone where they arent controlled by unending pain. of course, these individuals get fucked forever and can never emote or sometimes even function after all that process, because its a psychotic ability used only in extreme cases, not as a rule of life, otherwise youre castrating your own balls daily.

>>10746223
something something perennial philosophy

>>10746629
>obviously being happy is not bad

What if you're happy about getting cucked?

>>10746619
Influence != control.

>>10746639
There is no distinction, all control is a degree of influence and all influence is a degree of control

>>10746639
totally.

>>10746637
then you can call yourself a proper stoic.

>>10746637
Being happy isn't the pursuit of a Stoic.
Stoics care only about Virtue, is getting cucked virtuous?
>>10746643
Well you're being autistic about terminology.
I can get angry over something yet still not let that anger control what I decide to do.

>>10746631
>Hence it does directly lead to you potentially finding a solution
and if there is no solution to your problem, then why stay angry?

it's also strange to me that you can't conceive of taking an obvious action, like calling the police to file a report, without being angry. that's not a difficult solution to find, to be honest, it's not like it requires intense thought. why can't you just calmly go through the necessary procedure without feeling angry?

>>10746639

Seems like a bit of a semantics argument to me
Influence is some form of control without a doubt but when you're talking about something very abstract that exists within the mind like emotion the line becomes highly blurred. Assuming that there is a meaningful distinction then there is also the very debatable presupposition that emotions ever "control" anyone rather than influencing them.

Jesus Christ you faggots!
Takeaway from this thread: Don't reply to people who use the term cuck unironically

>>10746674
you just need a single spark of an intese emotion and all that follows afterwards will be influenced (aka. predicated) by that emotion. its a domino effect you cant substract from.

>>10746683
t. cuck.

>>10746417
>virtuous happiness
from whence? the greco-roman gods you absolute fucking brainlet?

>prosecuting the thief
>no reason to be upset
if you aren't upset why would you prosecute him, your full of shit and you know it, there is nothing logical about your response. Not overreacting is perfectly fine, but to act like there isn't a powerful emotional response is bullshit.

desu I think stoicucks completely misread meditations, (although epicurus was a complete brainlet and he is granddaddy of them all)

>>10746674
It's totally semantics.
I meant that in certain events you are obviously going to be affected by emotions, but that they ought not to absolutely control you and dictate your way of action.
your rational mind should not be overtaken by passion if you wish to lead a good life.

>>10746698
>(although epicurus was a complete brainlet and he is granddaddy of them all)
lmao is this bait?
>/lit/ 2k18

>>10746698
You're an absolute pseud.
I can wish for him to be prosecuted and still not be upset by theft.
If he goes unprosecuted he may steal again, and theft is not virtuous.

>>10746472
>cuck, short for cuckservative
Pissed me off a lil desu

>stoicism

http://www.johnsonessays.com/the-rambler/stoicism-necessity-patience/

>>10746698
>if you aren't upset why would you prosecute him
because you are taking an action to ensure the consistent prosecution of bike thieves, which will reduce the likelihood that your bike is stolen again - the prosecution of the bike thief is something that you can control and thus something that a Stoic cannot ignore. you can support and pursue punishment for criminals without being constantly furious about their existence and actions.

>>10746223
i hate reddit so much and /pol/ too

>>10746697
t. a cuck so cucked that even his own emotions aren't faithful to him.

>>10746732
just brush it away bro, dont let that feeling act as a reminder youre under psychological attack 24/7, dumb emotions amirite?

>>10746337
Action still precedes thought, at least at a conversational level. And having morals makes us really good animals, but we don't get to escape being animals

>>10746775
>dont let that feeling act as a reminder youre under psychological attack 24/7
"let's stay outside the bomb shelter, if I go down there I'll forget there's a war on! Anyway the constant explosions help me think."

>>10746354
Because your grandad is right. Read Taleb.

>>10746709
>>10746729
>>10746737
>0 addresses to the first and more important point
If you can't even distinguish what is virtuous and not-virtuous you don't even have an argument to defend you fucking retards.

if you aren't emotionally invested in your and other peoples bikes being stolen you have no motivation to pursue change, whether in your control or not, you faggots are fixated on a premise that is so far derived you can't even comprehend where it originates

>in my control
>out of my control
>hur dur if its out of my control im not even mad bro, no ur mad, im totally not mad

>>10746816
Bruh i'm not emotionally invested in a random person in China, yet, if I had the choice between pressing a button that saves his life, i'll press it.
Woah, actions caused without emotional investment, crazy.

>>10746672
>and if there is no solution to your problem, then why stay angry?

Because why the fuck not, the world must know my scorn

>>10746830
>Woah, actions caused without emotional investment, crazy.
empathy, which is not directed towards particular individuals that you know, but to the concept of the human being, which you value. one can have emotional attachment to values, in fact, thats the source of all intense emotions, all emotions that can survive hours and days and be still strong, are held by values.

you faggots dont know shit.

>>10746816
>if you aren't emotionally invested in your and other peoples bikes being stolen you have no motivation to pursue change
you can be emotionally invested without that emotion being an unpleasant one such as anger. pursuing change by prosecuting the thief will reduce the number of times in the future that bikes in general are stolen, which itself is a virtue and worth pursuing, and also will decrease your likelihood of experiencing bike theft in the future, which is a practical step toward improving your life.

I still don't understand your assertion that anger is the only possible way to make positive changes. it's contradicted by even brief observation of people in general, who often do totally counterproductive things due to anger, anxiety or fear, and equally often make good, productive decisions calmly.

>>10746867
>unpleasant one such as anger.
t.soymaster.

anger is a very enjoyable emotion. its energizing and powerful.

>>10746875
parody

>>10746835
>and if there is no solution to your problem, then why keep punching a brick wall?

Because why the fuck not, the wall must know my scorn

>>10746830
bruh jesus died for ur sins how u talk all thhat shit nigga

>>10746887
joke

>>10746736
>tfw that last paragraph

>>10746830
the absolute state of you people, TayTweets had more reasoned-through and human responses than you do.

>>10746867
you guys are broken records

You're whole argument is: I'm not even mad, ur the one who's mad. I am calm, ur the one whos not calm.

You can be angry without being wroth, you can be sad without being depressed, you can be prudent without being greedy.

You faggots are like an alcoholics preaching about everyone needing temperance. Nigga I can have a beer without ending up in the gutter you fuckers are the ones who seem to have a problem with basic human emotions.

>>10746916
It is never preferable to be angry over being calm.

>>10746875
I've heard that a lot of people, on their death beds, say things like

>I wish I had been angry more often
>I wasted my life by not being constantly irate at every one of my problems no matter how petty
>My one regret is that I didn't throw as many tantrums as I should have
>If I had lived my life better I would be able to approach death now with anger, perhaps even with anxiety and with fear, instead of living my last days on earth suffering from this useless sense of inner peace.

>>10746937
>Empty statement
That's deep bro, have an upvote

>>10746966
nah dude i'm not saying you can just choose how to feel about certain things.
it's just the first step to recognize that anger is absolutetly unnecessary and never productive to your life.

>>10746980
stoicism is the stagnation before the decline

>>10746996
no ur mom is u roleplaying faggot

The discourse in this thread is at a very high level.

>>10747014
People who regularly post on /pol/ should just be permanently banned from this board.

>>10747021
>classic us v/s them brainlet

>>10747021
cause you can't argue with us lmao. Run back to your universities where everybody just repeats the same 5 things over and over in slight variations, and all dissent is banned

>>10747021
>People who regularly post on /pol/ should just be permanently banned from this board.

I wonder who's behind this post

>>10747021
anyone from reddit or /pol/ should be banned, only independent anti-Semites who can control themselves should be allowed to post here. all anime posters, vituperative marxists, christfags, fedora tippers, unabashed STEM niggers, acc nerds, hedonists, pedos, homosexuals, non-caucasoids and japanophiles along with anyone who starts /int/ country flame wars should be banned permanently.

>>10747039
>pedos

I was with you up to here

So, whos in the right in this thread?

>the spineless cuck emotion supressed nice guy betas
Or
>the red blooded, passionate and energic anons that use their passions at their advantage to go further in lives
?

>>10747037
You can just imagine him sitting there meekly, giving false smiles to his loved ones. Then he gets back to his metropolitan sweathole and begins to deride them all on social media.

This fat egg could never survive the third world.

>>10747056
Liberals are thw most hateful people ive ever known.

>>10747055
>Straw man the post

>>10747076
>B-but that's a strawman, you can't do that!

I'm getting Meditations, it already looks very interesting because of all the references and quotes of other thinkers. Anything else interesting about the book?

Seneca sounds like a no-fun allowed type of guy so I'm skipping him, I'm not really into the Romans either at this point.

>>10747121
>I'm getting Meditations
>I'm not really into the Romans either at this point.

Absolute state of Soyics

>>10747126
I never said I was a stoic.

TIL that you can live an emotionless existence and still get up in the morning. thank you reddit!

>>10747055
>use their passions at their advantage to go further in lives
if getting triggered by a simple bike theft is what you consider going further in your life then it wasn't much of a life to start with, was it?

Do you know who are perfect stoics? Depressed people on crazy pills. Theyre so flattened out on their emotional peaks that nothing ever phases them out, they cant gent too enthusiastic nor too sad about anything, they just sit there, thinking about suicide but too weak to carry out the plan (some actually kill themselves oops). But they still think about death all day, crazy huh?

>>10747258
What the heck does that have to do with stoics? Depressed people aren't fulfilling their duty and respecting their nature due to illness.

>>10746392
>anxiety, rage, fear are
all spooks.

>>10747315
No, they are measurable body responses which have an adaptive function and that have been observed in countles other species, specially complex mammals.

>>10747121
Honestly it's the other way around.
Seneca is a hip dude.

>>10747315
Other way around you fucking idiot

>Soyics
>Soyicism

>>10747285
>fulfilling their duty
What duty? What nature?
If you're relying on spooky shit like this then its only right you're depressed

>>10747334
>No, they are measurable body responses which have an adaptive function and that have been observed in countles other species, specially complex mammals.

so are hunger, thirst and physical pain, and I assume you avoid those as much as possible, whereas you consider anxiety rage and fear to be constructive and so are actively encouraging yourself to feel them.

or maybe you are consistent: you avoid painkillers because feeling pain will help you solve the problem of your body being damaged, you regularly fast because hunger and thirst help you to solve the problem of providing self with food and water. tbqh that sounds unnecessarily unpleasant, but you do you.

>>10746223
The fact that popularity and simplicity are being used as talking points against a philosophy pretty perfectly sums up the issue with how philosophy is treated by the board and modern man in general

A philosophy is not a fashion accessory you subscribe to, holy fuck. Here's your philosophy: what you believe to be true. The reason you read philosophy is to continually dig into the fabric of reality your truths apply to and expose yourself to arguments that may show a massive hole in your reasoning. The reason philosophical "movements" exist is because some groups of people focused their sights on specific areas of reality at the same time and some sub-groups came to similar conclusions. Movements aren't just a buzzword to stick in your intellectual Tinder bio, you fucking savages.

>>10747285
what if your duty is to kill innocent people, maybe you’re a Waffen SS recruit and your nature is to rape women? What if the only way to do a good deed is to be empassioned?

>>10747094
>Posting soyboys while defending Reddit: the philosophy.

>soyics literally cant stand a bit of emotional disturbance so they substract all pathos from their lives, ending up a breathing corpse, uncapable or creating art or true human bonding
BABBY CANT GET SHAKEN UP A BIT?
POOR BABBY PREFERS GET HIS LEGS CUT INSTEAD OF EXPERIENCING MILD ACHE FROM TIME TO TIME FROM LONG WALKS
BABY PREFERS TO CLOSE HIS EYES EARS AND MOUTH AND BE SKINNED ALIVE AND PLACED INSIDE A PLASTIC BUBBLE, ALL HORMONES CUT, ALL LYMBIC SYSTEM CUT, FED ON A DOSE OF ANTIDEPRESSIVES AND ANXIOLYTICS

BABBY WANTS TO BE DEAD BEFORE TIME, POOR BABBY

>>10747349
>bloody neolithic people... comin' over 'ere with their pictograms and primitive wheat farming innovations...

>>10747400
t. brainless.

>>10747409
t. reddit

>>10747381
yes i avoid painkillers. fasting is beneficial, thirst is no thing to fuck around with.

anxiety rage and fear are to be submerged in, not put under the rug, they tell you lots about yourself no cuck philosophy can, you embrace your passions, you dont negate them on the phony pretense of this well behaved virtuous fag stoic person.

>>10747094
why do soyboys open their mouth like this?

>>10747393
That isn't your nature.
What if the nature of an ant is to build a colony of its own, alone?

>>10747421
to show they are harmless. also they have no souls.

>>10747353
>What duty? What nature?
As it relates to the stoics and their historical works. I'm not here to evangalise but to talk and read about the stoics, not Stirner.

>>10747424
thatd be a kino ant.

>>10747404
reminder that what you are advocating is being ruled by the emotions and not the will, and thereby giving control over your mental state to other people when it is rightfully yours.

>>10747420
>anxiety rage and fear are to be submerged in
Not him but yes,

Not intentionally though. To be averse to basic human emotions like anxiety, anger, and fear is pretty much like shorting yourself in your emotional growth. Face it and don't take a pill. Analyse the cause of such feelings, work to prevent the causes and reduce or alleviate the effects. But to run away from it is cucked and soyboyism.

>>10747420
>you embrace your passions
why does embracing your passions have to involve anxiety rage and fear? can't you conceive of even the possibility of being both content and passionate? that's tragic tbqh

>>10747434
dunno about the rest. but im an artist, i need my emotions to be in full force to create, to stomp on them is to stomp in my humanity and creative power. maybe the wagecucks need the soy doctrine of stoics so they dont snap when their boss cock slaps them in from of all colleages for the nth time during the day.

>>10747437
>Analyse the cause of such feelings, work to prevent the causes and reduce or alleviate the effects.
so, just like a Stoic would do?

>>10746223
>>10746428
I dont fancy the lemur's chances

>>10747442
>artist
lmao u fucking faggot soy boy

Stoic (meta)physics is pretty rad

>>10747449
>>10747437
literally what a stoic would do.

>>10747449
>“Choose not to be harmed — and you won’t feel harmed. Don’t feel harmed — and you haven’t been.” – Marcus Aurelius
thats what an official stoic would do. see the pain, cover their ears and say "lalala you dont exist lalala"

way diferent than what the anons are saying. dont invent your own stoic canon, its right in the texts.

>>10747456
>Stoic (meta)physics

Contradiction in terms

>>10747449
I guess? I don't know much about stocisim, just putting my thoughts in which are highly influenced by Buddhist psychology.

>>10747460
I think that speaks on the fact that we allow ourselves to get harmed.

Basicallt if someone called you a pussy,
you coud either
1) Let yourself be affected, Get mad and retaliate
2) give no weight to such words and carry on with your day

The latter is much more sustainable.

>>10747477
>2) give no weight to such words and carry on with your day
>The latter is much more sustainable.
lets say that occurs in your workplace. you have to see that person everyday. it isnt sustainable either that you let that person disrespect you everytime he can, you need to put a stop to that, your anger will help you do that making you look menacing (good thing in that context) and confront him. people arent cool and collected, they are assholes and abusive (because they have been abused too), stoicism works, as lots of doctrines, assuming society is full of well intended individuals, that are all in the same level, but reality is way way different.

Whenever a stoic tells me to do or think something I do the exact opposite and things usually work out better

>>10747460
>see the pain, cover their ears and say "lalala you dont exist lalala"
once again you are mistaking the pain for its cause. Stoicism does not imply that there is nothing bad happening, only that you can choose how to let it affect you. and you don't "see the pain" you see an event and allow it to cause you pain. the pain itself is a secondary effect.

again, you're mistaking turning off a fire alarm for pretending there is no fire. they are not the same thing.

>>10747502
>it isnt sustainable either that you let that person disrespect you everytime he can, you need to put a stop to that, your anger will help you do that making you look menacing

even assuming this was the best way to solve the problem, you can appear angry without suffering from the anger itself. why let this person you see every day make you angry, when you could choose to be calm and yet still take action?

>mfw people cant see that different philosophies are just rational justification for the different temperaments we are born with and the decisions we take under its rule

>>10747514
Which is fine for stupid caveman shit like fire where there is an objective source of pain but in more nuanced cases like being potentially cucked there is no distinguishing the mental pain from the source of pain.
Of course a good stoic would congratulate you for your ability not to be affected by your wife fucking eighteen niggers

>>10747522
That's really stupid. You must be a stupid person to use such stupid rationalization

>>10747502
Yeah but assuming that this person is not civillized, he now knows he can rouse you with his insults. Whereas if you calmly told him to back off, you have not granted him the power over you.

You can still react but not out of anger, etc. Obviously in a situation where it happens everyday, you have to react and stand your ground. But in my scneratio, 2) is more sustainable because there will be plenty of assholes in the world and it is futile to fight them all.

>>10747530
That's why you'll forever be an untermensch and your life will suck.

>Letting your whore wife interfere with your mental stability L M A O


If a person gave your body to any stranger he met on his way, you would certainly be angry. And do you feel no shame in handing over your own mind to be confused and mystified by anyone who happens to verbally attack you?

>>10747542
Explain then how people can find one kind of ethics so true, and another group of people find the totally contrary ethics so true too. Both groups are composed of intelligent people, they cant be both wrong, they are just adscribing to the type of worldview that their neurology and cemented behavioral patterns through life created for them. They just cant help it.

>>10747568
>untermensch
>the opposite of Übermensch

L M A O

>>10747578
>Both sides are intelligent people, they cant both be wrong
That's such a stupid assertion anon.

>>10747578
>Being intelligent means you're right
Anon...

>>10747583
literally what

>>10747568
>Heh you might have cucked me but I will claim I don't care so I win

Pathetic

>>10747612
>Claim
lol

Is the "If you kill your enemies, they win" quote by Justin Trudeau stoic in nature?

>>10746223
Does that in any way make stoicism inadequate as a philosophical mode of thought?

>>10747642
Yes, thats the definition of stoicism

>>10747653
It makes soyicism not even qualify as a mode of though. Its more of a fashion statement like a nu-male beard

>>10747667
Do you have an actual point to make or just a shitpost?

>>10747670
As much of a point as any person in the 21st century calling himself a "stoic". Your pet philosophy has the status of a obsolete religion without the dignity of falling back on mysticism. A pure ill conceived anachronism

>>10747578
Sure, you have a point. People are drawn to certain things, I don't think this generalisation is absolute. You can adopt ethics that you personally aren't "good at", and that's the Christian conversion story, right. Certain other schools would also focus on developing attributes that are your opposite. Like a greedy person practising charity in Buddhism.

>>10747695
What's the point with these strawmen except wasting your own time.

>>10746223

Look!

An RL Pokemon fight!

>>10746623
>the past
Like half of my motivation comes from getting mad at what a retard I was though

>>10747695
You sound like someone who doesn't actually know what stoicism is outside of a meme in your head. Keep stamping your feet and shitposting if you want to, it's not like I can stop you.

>>10747740
Thats a way of self improving that lots of people use. You use the pivot points marked by intense emotions as things you wont repeat, or will improve. Without emotions you cant even gel memories, all that stuff is too important to think you can just discard it.

>Be stoic
>Base your philosophy around the idea of not getting bothered by your emotions
>Get constantly baited on an Italian pizzamaking forum because you're actually very easy to piss off

>>10747771
lmao he actually thinks anyone in here is a Stoic

>>10747771
>get BTFOd so hard you stop quoting specific posts

>>10746556
>having emotion
>being emotional
They’re not the same thing anon, you can remain calm while having feelings of happiness or anger so long as you are not being an over sensitive pussy

>>10747789
Umm sweetie, stoics got truly btfo in this thread, did you even read it?

>>10747800
Umm sweetie, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>10747804
Umm sweetie, getting this bent out of shape over words doesnt talk too well of your "stoicism"

>>10747530
>there is no distinguishing the mental pain from the source of pain.
exactly because you are allowing the pain to form. the pain does not objectively exist.

why can't you just calmly cut your cheating wife out of your life? none of your anger is going to unfuck her, is it?

>>10747831
See
>>10747785

>>10747844
>haha i cant be cucked if i dont exist
as expected from soyics.

>>10747831
Umm sweetie you took the bait so gracefully, thank you for this dance.

>>10747785
We're actually epicureans, the archenemies of stoicism. :)

>>10747833
And why not skin her alive for the fun of it? You speak as if there's any inherent worth to either option, the only difference on their own terms is that one is the easier route for a weak cuck who felt he deserved what happened to him and the other is for someone who demands retribution

>>10747746
>a meme in your head

That's all stoicism amounts there, there's no concrete epistemology, morality, ontology to speak about. Its all just a load of half baked truisms and suppositions nigger-rigged into a pseudo-religion

>>10747873
>And why not skin her alive for the fun of it?
Cuz it UNIRONICALLY doesn't benefit you. ;))))
I just rekt you kid.

>>10747873
>And why not skin her alive for the fun of it?
sociopathic desu

>>10747900
>sociopathic desu
And?

>>10747902
good point. MarcusAureliusWasted.gif

>>10747542
its actually backed up by genomic analysis and evolutionary biology, political and philosophical outlooks are purely advantageous strategies nothing more
>>10747424
>this isn’t your nature
>is a geneticall driven behavioral patterns that’s often rewarded by your conspecifics with more resources and high social status
wow its almost like you’re an idealist, oh wait

>>10747922
>its actually backed up by genomic analysis and evolutionary biology

You mean vaguely correlated which you hammer out into a determinate causation
Maximum brainlet

>>10747944
>WE CANT KNOW NUFFIN
wow these stoics sure have the handle of their lives.

>>10747962
I'm not a stoic, you should wait to check my DNA next time

>If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups in general of which you are fond. Then, if it breaks,you will not be disturbed. Likewise, if you are fond of your own life, you should remind yourself that it is only Life in general of which you are fond. Then, if yours becomes worthless, you will not be disturbed.

the Stoics were eating straight from the midden of ideology.

>>10748013
>Likewise, if you are fond of your own life, you should remind yourself that it is only Life in general of which you are fond. Then, if yours becomes worthless, you will not be disturbed.
Sounds like something a totalitarist regime would like you to believe and rule your life with.

>>10748050
exactly. Stoics aren't postmodern at all.

>>10748050
>>10748071
what If I wanna be a revolutionary with Stoic values?

>>10746223

They are not simple. Is just that we lost a lot of their physics, but Stoic philosophy was actually pretty complex.
Read Long&Sedley - The Hellenistic Philosophers to have a first glance at that.
Also, the Stoicorum Veterum Fragmenta can be useful.

>>10746556
t. Bertrand Cuckell

>>10748096
being a Stoic is practically a prerequisite for being a revolutionary. when you are being tortured by capitalists, you will be able to take control of your emotions and feel nothing, since you are powerless to change the situation of being tied to a doorframe and whipped with an extension cable by members of Elon Musk's militia.

stoicism rejects individuality, never made that association. fuck stoics.

>>10748150
>fuck stoics.
I'm rubber, you're glue
it bounces off me and sticks to you.
t. stoic

>>10747421
They don't do it any old time, it's only when having their photo taken. Someone pulling out a camera is most likely a moment of terror for a lot of these men, so they've all devised this simple trick to mitigate their stress.
They always open their mouths as wide as possible. This disguises unattractive traits like recessed chins and soft jawlines by stretching the face out vertically (the association with beards is no accident: the beards are also used to cover up the very same traits).
The expression also gives them something to do when the camera comes out. Most of them are likely insecure about their smiles and always don't feel certain what facial expression. The "AHHHHHH" face outsources the problem and gives them a reliable go-to.
Finally, the expression is an outgrowth of the desperate and underdeveloped culture they steep themselves in. "I can't ever be serious! I'm the puckish, above-it-all character who always has a clever quip up his sleeve, just like my favorite late night talk show hosts!" "AAHHHHH I'M SO WILD AND CRAZY!! THIS VIDEO GAME CONSOLE/CHILDHOOD BREAKFAST CEREAL/MOVIE POSTER/POP CULTURE NOVEL IT SO EXCITING IT MAKES ME YELL!! I LOVE FUN!! THIS IS SO BADASS!!!"

>>10748212
pretty accurate, there are a ton of photos of me making this expression for basically these reasons.

>>10746895
...Yes?

>>10748279
you'll break your phalanges doing that, it's a bad habit.

>>10748286
What's wrong with breaking my phalanges?

>>10747873
Why is the retributionfag stronger? Why is stronger, better? You speak as if there's any inherent worth to this option.

>>10748296
it'll hurt when you play piano

>>10748296
Nothing, from a stoic perspective. They're just another external object.

>>10748304
What if I hate piano music?

>>10746234
Shut up frog.

>>10748310
it'll hurt whatever instrument you play

>>10748296
>haha dude dont be attached to fingers lol they arent even yours, like your wife and children, nothing is yours dumb goy, i mean fellow citizen of the republic

>>10748330
What if I've given up on playing music because I have ADHD and I don't like taking my medication and I'm failing my course and I'm procrastinating right now because I don't want to go to sleep because then I'll wake up tomorrow and have to hand the girl I like her skirt (which I washed for her) and then stay at home playing a tabletop roleplaying game over the internet all while I should be trying to catch up on work I cannot catch up on?

>>10748349
it'll hurt.

>11. Never say of anything, "I have lost it"; but, "I have returned it." Is your child dead? It is returned. Is your wife dead? She is returned. Is your estate taken away? Well, and is not that likewise returned? "But he who took it away is a bad man." What difference is it to you who the giver assigns to take it back? While he gives it to you to possess, take care of it; but don't view it as your own, just as travelers view a hotel.
>Epictetus, The Enchiridion

>>10746356
Try reading a book before you embarrass yourself even more.

>>10746223
Stoicism screams nu-atheist reddit plebery

>>10748642
>stoicism
>atheism
pick one

>>10746525
I don't think you know enough to be able to submit your opinion here

>>10746356
this is quite literally not Stoicism.

>>10746835
because then it shows your weak will. man up and stop bitching

>>10746223
has anyone stated their philosophy is complex? I think your average Stoic fan would admit Stoicism is rather practical, and by proxy simple.

as far as being overrated, it depends on what you look for in ethical philosophy. is not being a slave to your emotions overrated? is doing your duty overrated? is doing all that you can, being the best person you can possibly be overrated?

I think if you truly want to be in complete control of who you are, and not have a weak will that succumbs to pointless emotions, then it's not overrated.

>>10746447
>I can't function properly without being an emotional slave cuck

this is just awful justification for you to be weak willed. you can find the solution without being an emotional slave cuck.

ITT stoics brutally annihilated

>>10746223
No. The reddit surface-level platitudes shit is, and so is Roman aristocrat stoicism, basically them just justifying their existence. Read Greek stoics and some Roman stoics, avoid most Romans. It's not that complex really, it's akin to Taoism and Buddhism, these should go together.

>>10746229
>implying
The official philosiphy of reddit is a calvin and hobbes comic strip or whatever else you'd find on some fat 40yo HR woman's cube in the 90's

>>10749574
>Roman aristocrat stoicism, basically them just justifying their existence
Thats what the brainless "stoics" in this thread couldnt get, that such philosophies arent made with the pñebe in mind, or at ita service, but as some sort of pacifier or even brainwashing, proposing this dull cosmovision of be calm and dont feel attached to anything, oh also be like the emperor, or at least try to (youll never be lol).

>>10747612
>being angry at rhe dude who fucks your wife instead of being disappointed and mad at your wife
Good job, beat that dude to death and tell her "sweetie i forgive you" and wait for her to fuck another one since you're obviously so much of a cuck that you'd rather risk having a whore wife than cutting the root of the problem.

>>10746356
Oh, it's you again

>>10748382
Not sure what you would say isn't right about that passage.
It's a thought experiment, negative visualization.
realizing that nothing belongs to you as anything can be easily taken from you by pure chance.
But you're a /pol/ meme spewing brainlet that doesn't understand that Stoicism is perhaps the most alt right compatible philosophy in existance.

>>10747610
The antithesis of the Übermensch is called "the last man", read a book once in a while.

>>10750469
I didn't make a reference to the Übermensch you fucking imbecile, i was literally using the german word : "Untermensch" fucking idiot.

>>10747056
>>10747070
CTH aren't really liberals. They're all subhuman, tho

>biological determinism in this very thread
oh dear

>>10746527
you're right, we should all be emperors

>>10750532
>biology doesnt matter lol
Jesus

>>10750607
biology is natural metaphysics for the soulless

so, who was in the right, finally?

>>10750539
emperors of our destiny, yes.

>>10746406
Then you get Seneca

2018. These old philosophies have no meaning despite their aesthetical value. God is dead. So today stoicism is sold in every other self helf book, tv show or interwiev with random media people. It says,don't shit yourself about the things you can't controll. But that is not the most importend. The way it is expressed, the nuances and the style should be your measurment for judging it.

>>10750607
Jesus doesn't matter either

>>10752588
Jesus is the only thing that matters

>>10747944
whatever man your rationalist insights are real and true! these empirical observations are false and bad. you win! we’ll all be dispassionate stoics well meme’d anon you’ve convinced me to abandon biology and vitalism
>>10748342
everything has to relate back to monolithic taboo scapegoat

>>10746479
Marcus Aurelius led a campaign against Germani who had been terrorizing and pillaging settlements.

It's hardly a passive philosophy, rather a general's philosophy. Don't lose your cool in battle they say. It clouds judgement.

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power--how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live--is not that just endeavoring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, "living according to Nature," means actually the same as "living according to life"--how could you do DIFFERENTLY?

>>10752649
>Marcus Aurelius led a campaign against Germani who had been terrorizing and pillaging settlements.

Doesn't sound very stoic of him, he shouldn't have let the Germans cause him to feel displeasure at his settlements being pillaged

>>10752657

The point is stoicism does not mean passivity. You can still command your amies without being a pissed of child. Pretty much, stoicisim or keeping a cool heald is essential when making decisions in the battlefield. You don't want to cheer to early or retreat at the slightest signs of adversity. You push through your objecttives, which means you are not at all passive as you have a goal.

If you read Game of Thrones, Roose Bolton would be considered a stoic.

>>10752680
>The point is stoicism does not mean passivity.

If you follow it through consistently it totally does
Their problem is they rely on their muh virtue ethics to save them which is the spookiest crock of shit in pre-Cartesian history

>>10752680
>if you read game of thrones
and suddenly they expose themselves after over a hundred spiritless replies

>>10752688
I think you're operating on a false dichotomy. I also don't want to delve into morality and ethics but...

you can be a passive stoic, who have no goals; or an non-passive stoic, who act on fulfilling their goals (i.e. defending Roman Empire; making politicial moves, etc).

>>10752699
>ad hominem
Anon: hehe, this ought to rustle his jimmies

Stoicisim: it's a meaningless to give it any weight as it does not anything meaningful to the conversation

>>10746242
Yes i can't and neither can anyone else, and i suffer in a society without them

>>10752688
are you implying that Marcus Aurelius was not, in fact, stoic?

>>10752823
what's your moral codebook of choice?

>>10752680
>ou push through your objecttives
Philosophy should help you find exactly these "objecttives"

>>10746223
Stoicism is more interesting as a historical artifact than an actual philosophy imho. If you actually read them they talk about the gods almost as much as they talk about controlling your feelings, it's a bunch of heathen theist bullcrap. Sure, there's some helpful anger management stuff here and there, but don't call yourself a Stoic if you don't believe in their cosmology too.

>>10752655
indeed

>>10752843
idk something like a mix between christianity and buddhism, in the sense of a set of ethic values derived from christian neo-platonism

>>10746223
> appeal to nature

>>10746392
Not being harmed from something doesn't mean you don't try to stop the thing harming you, you retard. Christ.

Umm not so fast sweetie

>>10752877
This. Stoicism is a whole pack, and it isnt some anti stress philosophy its a whole ethic system, you HAVE to believe in gods or at least a god, one to whom you should be grateful for everything that happens to you. This god is essential for stoicism to work, its what gives support to the stoic attitude, everything that you experience is given to you by Him, and everything that you lose, is taken by Him, and you shouldnt complain. It makes sense with the gods stuff, and the promise of a good afterlife too, otherwise its just convincing yourself that repressing emotions is good just because and with no payoff.

>>10746223
They remain that way even to this day

>>10746229
>They're literally the official philosophy of reddit
*leaddit
Their ideologies are informed by Harry Potter anecdotes and scenes from the latest Star Wars films, not classical philosophy. Really making me interested in the stoics, CNN shill.

>>10746223
it's just you

Can we please have a nice discussion about how Buddhism is basically a how-to for the practical elements of Stoicism? You can't just logic your emotions away; you need to meditate.

>>10755350
Meditation is horseshit, its claimed effects outside of having a nap are 99% placebo and exterior indoctrination

>>10753297
>Not being harmed from something doesn't mean you don't try to stop the thing harming you, you retard

Doesn't make sense, if you're not being harmed by it why would you want to stop it?

>>10755355
http://noetic.org/sites/default/files/uploads/files/Meditation_Intro.pdf

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2012.00038/full

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s005200000206

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=neurological+effects+of+meditation&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFqIyXyMDZAhWFMd8KHZxtAX0QgQMIJzAA

suck my dick, it literally has noticeable physical effects on the brain

Stoicism is cosmic cuckoldry.

>>10755358
GOOD point

>>10755374
> it literally has noticeable physical effects on the brain

So do placebos you fucking retard

>>10746530
>Is Marcus Aurelius, a roman emperor that fought many wars through his lifetime, a fucking passive cuck?

He was quite literally a cuck

>>10756006
what would you have done differently?

>>10756299
Publicly cruxify her at the first whisper of disrespect of course