/lit/ - Literature

First for Sanderson-sama

APOLOGIZE

This is last or second to last thread before deadline, time to finish the story and start thinking about nominations for next round.

Read online: www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/soi.aspx
E-book: https://archive.org/details/TheCompleteWorksOfHPLovecraft_201412 (including like 30 additional stories)
Audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZrqYn5f_0

Is this the capeshit thread?

>>10731773
Fagoot
i was gonna make an anti-litrpg thread

double-posting from the previous thread, kill me please.

fuckin hell I finished the Prince of Nothing trilogy last night. The first book was a MAJOR slog but by the end the characters, settings and themes really grew on me. Looking forward to the Aspect-Emperor trilogy. Questions/discussion follows:

What's Bakker getting at with these books? I know he's a big /lit/tard, having ABD'd in analytic philosophy or somethin.
Is the big theme the fact that we (humans/man) are not free but instead driven by our desires/genes/customs/the atoms that make us up? Am I supposed to read this book as materialistic (and probably nihilistic)?

Obviously Kellhus is privy to all this knowledge, so I'm not sure what he represents. Seems like he's the guy that DID finish his dissertation in philosophy and has all the answers. Cnair is "woke". The Consult/Inchoroi are just another extension of humanity (except they are REALLY driven by sex..hints to Freud?)

What did you guys get out of it? How does the Aspect-Emperor series of books compare?

>>10731773
>>What is your favorite science fantasy work?
Lord of Light full stop accept no substitutes

>>10731817
Well you might want to finish Aspect Emperor before speculating or getting too married to these ideas, but yes the nature of free will and knowledge is one of the big themes. The other, which is touched on lightly in Prince of Nothing and more heavily in Aspect Emperor, is the old question "Is Good innately Good, or just because God wills it?"

Also Kellhus, mad or not? Was Moenghus right?

>>10731817
The Consult are the ultimate extension of one fully materialistic route of progress of humanity. Utterly hedonistic and driven by sensation. The Dunyain are the opposite pole. Still materialistic, but driven entirely by logic divorced from most natural urges.

A-anything about knights?

>>10731804
>>>/co/
>>>/tv/cape

@ the anon who was hating on Christian Cameron for writing domineering women, can you give some examples? I haven't noticed this.

>>10731835
>making hinduism great again.jpg
Are you, by chance, a poo in the loo?

>>10731773
>What is your favorite science fantasy work?
Hyperion, no contest

Am I a pleb for liking The Deed of Paks?

>>10731941
No, Vedic Brahmanism is just kinda neat.

LitRPG is fun, you should all try it. Just like normal books, there are good and bad LitRPG.
Super Sales and Daniel Black are two of the good ones.

>>10731791
Welp, time to get started I guess.

>>10731940
The mum in the Red Knight who encourages her sons to bully each other and a romance that ignores him.
The drunkard mum in Marathon shuns her sons, doesn't give a shit that one is killed and another enslaved. The love interest has him whipped when he is her family's slave, knocks him unconscious a few names, and is generally an all round dickhead.
Then in Tyrant the female protagonist abandons her infant son to run off and become some nomadic warrior queen.

There's probably more, but I tend to drop his shit.

So I just finished playing Subnautica and am heavily lusting after stories (both sci-fi and fantasy) involving being stranded or exploring strange lands/planets.

Last books to give me these feels have been the New Sun and Endymion/Hyperion.

Could I get any recs for that?
Thanks.

>>10732127
Annihilation maybe?

>>10732118
>didn't listen to me when I said to avoid his books
>could have stopped at red Knight
>ended up reading a bunch of others

>>10732133
>Annihilation
VanderMeer?

>>10732144
desu the only reason I persevered with the Red Knight was because of the (not) Byzantine Empire they go to

Any readable Magical Realism/Historical Fantasy? I don't care if it's pretentious or has GRI or anything. If it's for the lowest common denominator I'm probably going to like it. Just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks

Alternatively, non-european/russian fairy tales

>>10732167
Yeah, just don't expect a classic like New Sun if that's what you're looking for. It's more of a thrill ride that you enjoy in the moment but ultimately forget

>>10732200
Temeraire if you want low-brow Napoleonic Wars with dragons

>>10732203
No, no. Looking exactly for that thrill, New Sun was just an example of a strange world.

>>10732206
>Napoleonic Wars with dragons
lmao it's real https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28876.His_Majesty_s_Dragon

>>10732200
>Magical Realism/Historical Fantasy
Define this

Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles might be what you're looking for.

>>10731773
>science fantasy
wtf does this even mean?
dragons and rayguns?
robots and faeries?
knights with ipads?

Saddest fantasy book you've ever read fellas?

>>10732235
all those things are science fantasy, but there's usually a bit more nuance to it than that. Either the lines are blurred sufficiently that the distinction doesn't matter (e.g. sufficiently advanced technology, lovecraftian horror) or the science is so bullshit that it's basically fantasy (Doctor Who)

However, there is an entirely separate classification I refer to as "Hard Science Fantasy" which basically amounts to thorough integration of science and magic on a metaphysical level. Obviously this is a really high bar to set so instead science fantasy is usually roped in as long as it expresses awareness of the science it's violating (e.g. His Dark Materials, Discworld)

>>10732227
Normally it means historical fiction but there's at least a little bit of magic present in the setting. It doesn't rewrite history the way Alternative History does, and the fantastic element doesn't have to be significant, with some examples being subtle enough that the book isn't even put in the fantasy section. In all cases though a recurring theme is that fantasy element isn't the center of the A-plot. Ultimately it has to be about people living their lives and magic just happens to be there

>>10732284
Not so much a book as a short story but The Paper Menagerie. No written thing has ever brought me closer to crying

first for splitting into two generals, one for sci-fi, one for fantasy

What the hell is a LitRPG?

>>10732617
We did that years ago and scifi crawled back begging us to let them in again.

>>10732637
Western version of anime / light novel.

>>10732653
I'd never heard this term before. How does anime even work in book form? Is it basically just Wheel of Time?

>>10732617
That actually happened once. Sci-fi peeps insisted on having their own threads, but they collapsed within a week and just came back here. Fantasy bros didn't even notice they were gone.

>>10732663
>>10732639
I swear to god this board has existed for all of two years. Hmm, ah well. I read sci-fi now but never cared much for fantasy. Maybe sci-fi bros were just poorly led then.

>>10731791
shit. this is two days away. time to speed read

>>10732663
>the science virgin
>the chad fantasist

>have actually successfully written a novel
>all I feel is failure because I haven't successfully written a homestuck knockoff

what the fuck is wrong with me?

>>10732200
Six Expressions of Death, Gemmell's Troy trilogy, Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles

>>10732663
>>10732639
kek

>>10732653
Kek

>>10732127
Vorrh

>White Sand vol. 2 out today
>can't find a rip anywhere
:-(

>>10732637
THEY'RE IN THE GAME!!!

Generally portal fantasy plus explicit gamification, like numerical stats and leveling up. Guardians of the Flame was an early hybrid, crossing explicitly to a game world but no stats on the other side (the first few are good). Try Drew Hayes's NPCs for a sincere and harmless modern version, JA Cipriano's Legendary Builder series for angel / succubus harem fantasies with game elements. There's a wide range out there but it's all from the deep end of the schlock pool at this point.

>>10733113
People actually write this shit?

>>10733120
They can churn out a book every month or two. I love it -- it's the new pulp era.

I can't decide whether to finish Baxter's Manifolds, begin the Annihilation series, or just read this old paperback of Armor I picked up

>>10731857
I'll bump this for ya. I need more medieval fantasy adventure stories

Fuck me, a good hardcover copy of Hyperion would cost me 300 - 500 hundred bones.

add and remove stuff.

>>10733409
Where's the GRI category?

>>10732225
>>10732843

any more chill stuff that's closer to the turn of the century?

>>10733176
How far into the Manifolds are you? I read the first two; heard the third wasn't that great--and the premise didn't sound too much like what I would enjoy anyhow.

>>10732200
Join the /lit/ water margin reading group. Threads are on Fridays, this Friday at chapter 35

What does /sffg/ think of The Expanse? I'm halfway into Babylon's Ashes and really enjoying the series.
>mfw the plot went full Gundam in book 5
I'd really like to see how the show adapts all of the shenanigans that Alex and Bobbie's pull with the Razorback, but that's probably like 4 years away at the least.

Webnovels are novels too

>>10733575
Just "Time" so far. It was more of a struggle than I thought. I felt like it ran out of steam. Maybe I'm just so jaded that hopping through proto-universes is old-hat.

I'm trying to start reading the Foundation series, made it to part three of book one and I'm struggling to keep going. It's a whole lot of people talking about things happening/things that have happened and not a whole lot of things happening.
Think I'm going to abandon it, sadly.

>>10731773
What should I read first?
Hyperion or shadow of the torturer

>>10733662
I would advise against it. It doesn't really begin to take proper turns until later. Have you even gotten to any mention of The Mule yet?

I haven't read beyond the original trilogy because I can't see how it can be continued.

>>10733666
Whatever you think is wisest, my lord.

>>10733675
No mention of the Mule, don't know what that is. I'm a little less than halfway through, in the Mayors section. You'd advise against giving up or against reading it? I'm willing to give it more time because I did really like the beginning, but it's becoming kind of a chore.

>>10733684
Thank you my son. I guess it doesn’t truly matter right?

>>10732127
Diaspora

>>10733692
>Mayors section
I assume that means where early Foundation leaders keep BTFOing retards using superior technology, right?

I say keep reading, it really does get into proper sci-fi mind-fuckery, in my pleb opinion. Once the Second Foundation becomes a topic of interest, this is where it starts to get great.

>>10733702
Diff. anon curious about this one. Will Egan make me feel like a tard for not knowing my maths in this one? I like Schild's Ladder, save for the aforementioned math lessons.

>>10733526
Grimnoir Chronicles?

>>10732284

Monument by Ian Graham

>>10733409

could i get my nigger paolo bacigalupi in the post apoc section?

>>10732127
Jack McDevitt has done quite a few "research team goes somewhere and gets in trouble" stories.

Though after the third or fourth disaster in the Academy series you start to wonder why they don't give the research teams bring along more serious gear than stuff that archeologists would take on a trip to dig up dinosaur bones in Utah.

>>10733409
Is Three-Meme not there because of contrarians, or because /lit/ genuinely can't enjoy anything? Also, take down the Stephenson, and the entire genre of Cyberpunk.

>>10733409
Add Embassytown, replace Consider Phlebas with either Use of Weapons or The Player of Games, remove Ringworld and the Diamond Age

>>10732127
How about some Big Dumb Object books that feature being stranded and exploring, such as:
Ringworld, Pushing Ice or Bowl of Heaven

Anyone here even read Bowl of Heaven? I only read the sequel, Shipstar, and didn't even notice that it was a sequel until a good deal into it. It was alright.

>>10732200
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

>>10734227

doesnt larry niven suck now and just get his fans to write for him?

>>10733409
Split modern, you can't have Dick next to Watts (did I mention you need to add Blindsight

>>10733648
GoT in somewhat hard space. was okay

MALAZAN IS SHIT

SHIT!!!!!!

>>10732127
Reading Rendezvous With Rama for the first time right now, and it fits that. Really fucking good, too.

>>10733725
>Will Egan make me feel like a tard
Yes

>>10732682
Board was around since 2010, I think. I was on 4chan since 2006 though..

>>10732659
Check these out, they are the best of what litrpg has to offer.

CAN I READ THIS AS A STANDALONE?

>>10733120
And they make good pocket change from it. If you're a good author you should try your hand and get money for a new pc or 40' tv

>>10734626
>gamer for life

>>10734643
Just admit you want the dick. No need to play a stuck up bitch. yeah gamer 4 lyfe turned into shit

>>10734451
rats!

>>10734600
Yeah, I was thinking of /his/, and I'm still here like 11 hours later, so that should tell you something about my 4chan problem.

>>10734626
i dont know how anyone could think those books are litrpgs.
there are two that i would consider pseudo litrpgs. because they have stats but they arent actually litrpgs. this picture has to be a troll or something.

>>10734704
True litRPGs are too autistic for this board.

>>10733409
ignore these >>10733889, >>10733902 when they're talking about removing Stephenson and cyberpunk. A couple dudes here have a massive hateboner for cyberpunk for some reason, those books shouldn't be left off the chart because they have an extreme bias against it.

>>10733409
Add a category for "transhumanism".

>>10733662
>>10733675
The Mule make his first appearance in book two, which I'm currently reading. I find the books highly average, The Mule makes it slightly more interesting but not much desu. Maybe it gets better, I'll keep reading.

>>10733409
am I blind or is book of the new sun not on there

>>10733662
I tried it. It was like logh with no battles just tons of geopolitical (galactopolitical?) dialogue

>>10734793
One can like cyberpunk and dislike Stephenson at the same time

me strong me fuk wemen

>>10733648
i think its pretty great but it happening hundreds of years in the future it kinda feels like they have 2025 IRL tech + magic fusion tech that's thousands of years off. the series's one science-fiction part is all the protomolecule stuff but other then that it seems like all technological progress just stopped and even shit we're plausibly gonna have in 5 years they dont gave in the 2200s.
main story is great but they got lazy with the worldbuilding ,the complete lack of any biological\medical\compsci\neuroscience new plausible tech just seems off . the most we get is clarissa's implants which you could imagine a rich girl in 2040 having .

>full Gundam
dont worry, it gets crazier
>spaceship shenanigans
if you're halfway through all the good space stuff is ahead of you . i hope the show suceeds but i wouldnt count on it getting to the current books before cancellation . also i dont like how they ended s1 (and s2) mid-book , pacing feels off and cringy shit like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGWgrI2p6R4 makes me think all the good spacefights are going to look like shit

Could I get some recommendations for books where the main character makes things?

Blackshmithing, carpentry, electronics, Magic/Sci-fi stuff (so long as it isn't too handwavey), basically anything like that,

>>10734632
HEY!

>>10733176
Armor is really short, and imo is the best of the power armor novels. Finish armor.

>>10734643
I bet if she gets a good dicking her eyes would be rolling differently.

>>10735469
>Daniel Black by E William Brown.
He does Magical Engineering and makes:
>magical elevators, blimps, hoverbikes, tanks, APC (Armoured personnel carrier), machine guns, mortar guns, etc etc.
If you love building you will love this series (it doesn't fully kick off until book 2 though). Also just ignore the smut.
They are short, so you can breeze through them all in a day.

>Heinlein
Also does some survival books in his Juvenile series
>stranded in the wild, and you turn into Robinson Crusoe or die

>Confessions of a D list Supervillian
He spends most of the books fixing his armor and getting even

There are some other magical Engineering books I have to try out before I rec.

>>10732127
>>10732127
>stories (both sci-fi and fantasy) involving being stranded or exploring strange lands/planets.
The Dying Sun series by CJ Cherryh.

>>10732200
>Any readable Magical Realism/Historical Fantasy?
Guy Gavriel Kay is your man. The Lions of Al-Rassan, and A Song for Arbonne. I also like "Chase the Morning" by Michael Scott Rohan. I second the other anon's recommendation of Temeraire, just be prepared for the series getting progressively worse.

>>10731857
>A-anything about knights?
Well ... there is Game of Thrones, of course ... if you dont mind starting a series that will in all likelihood never be finished.

>>10731857
knights of dark renown
the red knight

>>10735469
>where the main character makes things?
The first book in Lois McMaster-Bujolds "Vorkosigan" universe (it is not realla part of the series, dating to about 100 years prior) is a master welder who get hired to teach some very unusual students and goes on to buld something quite spectacular. the author is the daughter of the man who wrote "McMaster on materials", apparently the be-all-end-all book about materials science for engineers.

Just finished Asimov's Gods Themselves, great concepts but the entire moon section felt so lame compared to the first 2 sections. Asimov can't write romance for shit

>>10734748
You know LitRPG is real when a catboy fucks a female goblin...

>>10732200
Maybe the Hussite Trilogy by Andrzej Sapkowski (guy who wrote the Witcher novels)? It about Hussite Wars but with magic. Haven't read them myself though.

Just got a C on my geography midterm and I cant stand the class. I got out not even 15 minutes ago and I almost fell asleep 7 times. This is just bullshit memorization piled on boring textbook reading. I can't think with this.

>>10735914
Can you get it in English?

>>10734748
This. And I hope it will continue to be so.

>>10734380
Loved it, don't read the sequels though.

>>10734227
Big dumb objects - as in like Rama? If so, that'd be great too, thanks.

What are your thoughts on Book of the Long/Short Sun? Worth picking up?
I really enjoyed BotNS but don't see the other books mentioned much.

>page 7
What is everyone reading that they can't post in sffg?

>>10737194
manuals

Started reading A Game of Thrones, fucking hell do the info dumps ever stop?

>>10737413
No.

>>10737413
>reading GoT
For what purpose

>>10737434
To put my money where my mouth is and actually read the series. i wanna keep talkin shit without doing so tho

>>10737444
you're an idiot. not only are you reading a series so that you can feel justified when you talk shit about it, but you've let the /lit/ echo chamber color your opinion about it before you've even read it.
and please don't check in every 100 pages to deliver your hot opinions, we don't care.

>>10737486
I started hating the series the moment I got into an argument with a book reader about the show and its world, bruh. /lit/ had nothing to do with it.

Outside the OPs post are there any good Urban Fantasy series with a lot of world building? So far, I've only read American Gods and Dresden Files.

>>10737434
That's not a valid orientation. Here, take this.

>>10737500
>I started hating the series the moment I got into an argument with a book reader about the show and its world
that's even worse.

>>10737519
Doesn't matter. I can safely say GRRM sucks and his world sucks because I've read enough of his books watched all of the supplementary material for the show. later playa hater

>>10737413
>Started reading A Game of Thrones
Heh. Heh...

Well, howdy there! This is your captain speaking. Welcome aboard GRRM's wild ride. There is no specified arrival time at the destination so please get comfortable. In the interim we're forecasting memes, death, awkward sex scenes and *lots* of food description. Strap yourself in, son, because you just joined the ride that never ends.

>>10737413
Asoiaf is pretty good until the 4th book. Any other opinion is just being different for the sake of it.

>>10737413
He gets a lot better by book 2.

>>10737579
Until the 5th book you mean. Only problem with AFFC is the Dorne chapters drag a bit too long.

>>10737500
book reader here. the show is shit

>>10737510
I don't really read urban fantasy myself but The Library at Mount Char is frequently recommended. You've also got the Night Watch books if you don't mind your city being Russian.

While I don't much like urban fantasy in general I am a fan of China Mieville. Some of his books are at least loosely urban fantasy: Perdido Street Station, The City and The City, Un Lun Dun, and maybe The Last Days of New Paris.

>>10737626
Thanks so much Anon.
I like High Fantasy and other Fantasy-like genre but I love the clash of every-day with Fantasy and to see how each author envisions every mythical/fantasy races strive to live in our world.

Need some fantasy to read

No epic fantasy, no european/russian settings, and not a title that's old enough to vote. Preferably something imaginative and comfy

>>10737650
>imaginative and comfy

Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders trilogy

>>10737671
looks interesting. Are there fleshed-out cultures that aren't just ripoffs of medieval-to-victorian europe?

is the whole "mystical old asian mentor" thing offensive yet?

>>10737734
It was always offensive you dingdong. It's just that no one listened to Asians in the past

>>10737720
Yeah, there are like a dozen books set in that world. It's very fleshed out. The Liveship books are chronologically the second trilogy set in that world, but 1) it's a standalone story, if you had read the first (Farseer) trilogy your experience would be no different except for noticing a couple of references and 2) the Farseer books are in a "medieval Europe" type of setting so I didn't recommend it. But anyway I'm just saying it's a large world with different cultures.

The Liveship books are mostly set on the sea and the odd port town. It revolves around pirates and trading families, then the fantasy aspects are sentient ships (which are done really well imo) and ""dragons"" (but not typical fantasy dragons). I'd say the magic aspect is relatively low key.

My own criticism is the length of the books, they're unnecessarily long. Another criticism is that they're not as good as the Farseer books. On the other hand, Robin Hobb is one of the best fantasy writers when it comes to characterisation and creating a believable world with unique and creative properties, hence the recommendation.

>>10737671
cool

>>10737772
what if I do it but rather than him being wise and mysterious and always speaking in koans he's just a normal guy playing up expectations for a hoot, who has to fight to keep himself from cracking up any time anyone stares off in quiet contemplation after he pulls a haiku out of his ass?

>>10731773
no
i don't know, i wouldn't like it
none
i don't know

>>10734793
My distaste for cyberpunk is largely uninformed and short-sighted, I will grant you this. Stephenson, however, is fucking clown shoes.

>>10737413
Asoiaf is pretty shit until the 4th book. Any other opinion is just being different for the sake of it.

>>10737968
EURON
EURON
CROW'S EYE KING

>>10737591
No, the fourth book is where it goes wrong. You could tell he was lost just from the five year wait.

>>10738023
It's quality stuff. It's no ASOS but you can't follow ASOS with another ASOS. Pieces have to be picked back up before you can knock them over again. ADWDs is where the pacing gets fucked.

I bet he really regrets removing the five year gap.

>>10738175
I worry that the show may have blurred some people's memory of what was set up to occur, and I'm not ascribing this to you, but as I recall... wasn't there about to be a yuge battle outside the gates of a plague-ridden Yunkai, where The Greyjoys have just shown up with a horn that controls dragons?

Because I'd love to see how that plays out.

>>10738297
That was in Book 5. No Slaver's Bay stuff was in Book 4.

Any science fiction with great characters in your opinion you can recommend?

>>10738354
He should date some pulp scifi Stacy. Complex literary creations are always batshit. Good for a fuck, bad for a relationship.

>Reorx and Usha going to the Thieves' Guild
>interaction with that gully dwarf
>tries to leave three times due to Reorx's three orders and turns around every time
>"Stop! Me dizzy!"
o i was laffin

>>10738354
The first law has pretty good character development, although most follow similar arcs of debasement through violence.

>>10738354
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
Hyperion

>>10738535
Neither have great characters

>>10738346
Whatever, I'm just saying the later two books catch a lot of flak while I was pretty well engrossed. glass candles, Greyjoys, I even like LSH and am genuinely curious how Jamie fairs

>>10738595
>glass candles, Greyjoys, I even like LSH and am genuinely curious how Jamie fairs
All that shit was good. Only thing that bothered me was some of the Dorne and travellogue with Tyrion stuff went on too long, and they chopped off the climax of book 5.

>>10738591
both have well written characters
Androids is not Dick's best work but Harrison Ford is a much better character than for example Joe Chip and Hyperion has hits and misses with the poet dwarf thingy being pretty retarded and the protagonist consul pretty generic but others like the priest and the jew being great

>>10738631
They're both idea books. The characters are just placeholders.

>>10738601
>travellogue with Tyrion stuff
That ran long, but that reminds me, the whole Aegon thing is surely a game-changer. Even if it proves bullshit, they're already in Westeros kicking ass and taking names.

>>10738681
The Fyre rises.

>>10738661
sci-fi is an idea genre but those books still have very well written characters
again I think the contrast with Ubik and maybe the Culture as the other popular space opera from the time showcase this very well

>>10737734
When have there been any recent examples?

>>10737772
Yeah nothing's more offensive than having someone look up to you for being wise, I can see why they'd be upset.

>>10738693
They expect one of us in the Vale, brother.

>>10738709
>Yeah nothing's more offensive than having someone look up to you for being wise, I can see why they'd be upset.
t. brainlet

>>10731773

Just started reading Snow Crash. So far, it's the stupidest and best thing I've read in a while. I really just need to go on a good cyberpunk binge. Aside from the list, any good, obscure ones? Or even bad ones that entertained you anyway?

>>10738787
I've dropped every single one. I have no idea why, but it offends me.

>>10738787
Cyberpunk is dead
Now it's called contemporary fiction

>>10738721
Nice argument, thanks for explaining why I'm wrong.

>>10738787
Synners, Islands in the Net, Schismatrix

>>10733409
add Earth, remove Stephenson, learn to auto-fellate.

Why is Moorcock recommended? I just finished the first Hawkmoon and the prose and exposition was embarassingly bad and felt totally soulless. The same amount of "depth" and less enjoyable than a Forgotten Realms novel

>>10738787
Crashcourse by Wilhelmina Baird

I was reading one of the Old Man's War short story collections a while back and the diplomatic team stories got me wondering, are there any other good SFF stories about diplomats out there aside from the Retief series?

I thought the girl's parts of this book were surprisingly good; I hated them in the earlier books. Shallan's scenes get interesting when she has those weird battles with the ancient spirit things.

Why is science fiction always lumped in with fantasy? They are two clearly different genres.

>>10739614
Shared history of pulp magazines and conventions

>>10738487
Even though the post was specifically about science fiction, I'll probably pick this up some time.

>>10738535
Read them ages ago.

>>10739614
>They are two clearly different genres.
No they're not. Both genres (along with horror) intertwined with one another quite often and writers would regularly dip their pens into both genres.

>>10739614
They are both about fictional worlds.

>>10738834

I wish books still looked like this. Every book looked like this in the early 90s.

>>10739614

nerd shit

>>10736009
Oh my bad... No, seems to be available in Polish and German only.

>>10737842
There's nothing inherently wrong with having a mystical old asian mentor. However, people will sigh about your predicable use of tropes and unless on of your themes is said use of old tropes your story will most likely suffer from it.

>>10739786
What was the last work that had a mystical old asian mentor? Unless you're talking about actual East Asian literature, in which case it is pretty standard.

>>10739666
This is true. Stephen King is a good example of this.

>>10739282
Left Hand of Darkness.

>>10739832
I don't read much contemporary SF&F so I can't answer that question but I find it hard to believe that it's a dead trope. It still makes frequent appearances in comics, movies and TV shows.

>>10739904
Zelazny is better.

Anyone know of any books like Lest Darkness Fall?
I like the concept of time-travel to ancient times to make the world a better place.

>>10737636
>>10737510
Try Thunderer by Felix Gilman.

>Woman are all brave, calm and smart
>Men are all stupid, cowardly, untrustworthy and brutish
Why is this so prevalent in popular modern fantasy

>>10740761
pandering and agenda pushing

Blindsight

>>10740761
>>10740779
With Trump in Office and the world opening up to the horrors of the Liberal Agenda; things will be turning up

>>10740779
I'd say it's more likely to be the authors biases making their way into their world unconsciously rather than an active attempt to pander to a specific crowd.

>>10740780
Echopraxiapraxia

>>10740761
>warrior woman that don't act crueler and tougher than everyone else because they're looked at as inferior in that era
hate this so fucking much

Ok /owg/, I am not here to rage again but I seriously can't queue with my friend in the fucking arcade? This is why I hate Blizzard so much.

>>10731804
yes

>overwatch

>>10740937
OH shit sorry /lit/ I meant to post this on /vg/

>>10740937
bravo, anon

>>10740937
>the absolute state of /lit/
What books capture that Overwatch feeling? Absolutely including sentient gorillas, cute lesbians and cheeky Australians.

>>10740937
Always knew this was a cesspool of vedditors, furries, capeshitters, and the like.

>>10741008
fuck off

>>10741050
The cesspool is 4chan

Our task is to writhe around the cesspool in harmony with our fellow retards.

>>10741061
>try to turn an obvious shitposting magnet into discussion about literature
>told to fuck off by some idiot
No u

>>10731804
>>10731857
You know it's hard to give recommendations with so little to go on. What mood do you want? What have you read so I don't recommend a bunch of books you've already read?

Capeshit:
Ex-Heroes by Peter Clines, capeshit in the zombie apocalypse, MC eventually becomes Superman, main characters die
Wearing the Cape by Marion G Harmon, waifuable cute heroine MC, Worms trigger events done right, fairly good at setting up stakes.
Age of Shiva by James Lovegrove, indian superheroes, pretty good action, didn't particularly like the ending.
Soon I Will be Invincible by Austin Grossman, a good character study on both the villain and the heroes.
Devils Cape by Rob Rogers, amazing origin story, great villains, makes me wish he would write a fucking sequel.

Knights:
The Dragon Knight series by Gordon R Dickson, has some pretty good knights. Sir Brian is pretty great.
David Eddings has a pretty good knight in the Belgariad and Malloreon series, and the Elenium and Tamuli trilogies are all about knights, all the time.

>>10732127
People already said, Ringworld and Rama, so let me suggest something less obvious.
Poul Anderson didn't devote the books to it, but there's some good pieces of exploration in the Flandry series, particularly book two A Circus of Hells.

>>10735469
Sword of the Bright Lady by M.C. Planck is a proto litRPG, but the guy is an engineer, so his particular way of cheating the system is making guns so level one soldiers can kill shit way out of their level and forcing an industrial revolution to pull the setting from medieval stasis.
The Dark Ability by D.K. Holmberg is about a blacksmith with the power to go on a trance and work the magic metal of the setting. It's forbidden to use it to make weapons, but the metal wants to become weapons.

>>10731791
Oh shit, I thought it was today, which is why I made sure to listen to the entire audiobook yesterday. Well, I hope it's soon, because I really liked this story. I can definitely see now why it's one of Lovecraft's most famous works.
"No, I shall not shoot myself—I cannot be made to shoot myself!"

>>10741091
Deadline is whenever there's a new thread on or after the specified date, more or less according to GMT I guess. (I just noticed that basically no one uses GMT-1, cool.)

>The Shadow Over Innsmouth, or Help! I'm a Fish

>>10737510
Lots of world building urban fantasy. Tall order but let me see.

Larry Correias Monster Hunter series I think reached this level with the anthology book.
Simon R Green has four series of UF (Nightside, Secret Histories, Ghosfinders and Ishmael Jones) all in the same setting but viewed from different perspectives, and all go out of their way to drop tidbits abut the larger world to a point it can be a bit annoying. The perspectives I mention is like this the MCs from Nightside and Secret Histories are deep in the hidden world and the conspiracies, Ghostfinders knows about the larger hidden world but is closer to human levels, and Ishamel is more of a clued agent but still skeptical of a lot of things the others know to be true. The first two fight vampires no problem, the third knows about vampires but would probably die against them, the last had had doubts if vampires are true, despite being a non-human himself.
There's a handful more UF series I like to recommend at every opportunity but now that I think about it they don't do much worldbuilding outside of the general area around MC.

>>10740761
Anytime I see a review complaining about misogyny in a book, I usually end up getting it and enjoying it.

>>10741136
Ah, thanks for explaining that.

>I just noticed that basically no one uses GMT-1, cool.
How do you know what GMT people use?

>The Shadow Over Innsmouth, or Help! I'm a Fish
Shadow. I'll talk more about it later but it's a line I really enjoyed. I've never even heard of the other thing. But Googling the name was pretty funny. How on earth did Alan Rickman end up in a shitty Danish cartoon? Did he lose a bet?

>>10741290
>How do you know what GMT people use?
I looked at an image and noticed that most places in the time zone dodge it to hang out with GREAT BRITAIN.

>How on earth did Alan Rickman end up in a shitty Danish cartoon?
>shitty Danish cartoon
DELET THIS
From what I remember, watching it 15 or so years ago, it's amazing.

>>10741193
The Simon R Green series; in what order should I read them?

>>10741352
Well, I haven't seen it, but it doesn't look all that great, and if Wikipedia is to be believed, couldn't even recoup half of its investment. But I realize those aren't objective indicators that something is bad.

>>10741193
>There's a handful more UF series I like to recommend at every opportunity but now that I think about it they don't do much worldbuilding outside of the general area around MC.
Please share them

This might sound weird, but are there any works that explore the society/minds of demons or similar creatures? I was looking through DOOM concept art, and I just found the idea of a demon religion interesting. Well, as long as the religion is more than just "kill people for fun and/or profit!"

>>10731773
Has anyone here finished the Hyperion Cantos, I've read the first two books, what are the other two like?

>>10741400
The only fault I can remember is that the villain behaved like a retard because otherwise the heroes could not possibly have won, but as a kid that didn't really bother me.

gimme some feelgood fantasy/scifi. you know nothing really bad happens like murder or rape. mc gets the girl and they live happily ever after.

>>10741514
Space Captain Smith

>>10741566
sounds good. thanks anon.
keep em coming.

>>10738354
New moon

>>10740937
somehow this fits right in

>>10741514
Heinlein juvies

>>10741470
Shit. Absolute shit. FoH gets weird, Endymions picks up and becomes retarded and derivative.

LITRPG is really shit. Should have listened to you guys. this shit is so much anime. I was so mad that I had to make this. I even forgot to include the faggot support the writer put in to shill to the faggots.

never touching another litrpg again. fuck this shit.

>>10740036
Three Hearts and Three Lions

>>10740761
Any examples you could post specifically? I need a good laugh.

>>10741514
Books have good endings and often when bystanders die they get a visit from Death himself and a sense of closure, as it isn't that bad, looking at things from the other side.

>>10741459
God's Demon

>>10741514
Rex Nihilo

Is there any litRPG where a guy gets stuck as a sexy female character and hates it? Asking for a friend.

>>10742183
read he fucking book and find out
you lazy piece of shit

Can anyone recommend some books that are like the cover of this album?

>>10741193
>recommending Simon R Green
>ever
All the shit you suggested, and everything you suggest from now on will be ignored.

>>10742183
Don't do this >>10742289 that book gave me an aneurysm

>>10740761
Idiots who hate sexist attitudes and try to fight against them in their work without realizing what they're doing is also sexist. It's the regressive (mis)understaing of equality.

>>10740761
>>10742358
Brienne of Tarth is actually one of the best written modern examples of a female warrior but most readers just find her boring. Probably why you see lots of Xenas instead.

>>10742369
I'm not sure if I hate Brienne this much before the TV show.

>>10742178
I don't understand. What does jojo dbz and a thick orc have to do with the bookl

>>10742328
album is based

>>10742328
great album. chronomancer II is really good. dont know about books that are like it though, sorry.

>>10742393
Show Brienne is fairly different from book Brienne.

>>10742211
Thanks.

>>10742369
There's pretty much nothing to her other than muh Renly and muh honor.

>>10742466
Book Brienne, not show Brienne. Book Brienne actually suffers consequences for completely breaking her society's gender roles. And barely even thinks about Renly anymore.

>>10742466
She gets her face eaten, which was fucking hilarious.

>>10742466
I think what anon is going at is how GRRM handle her differences from her male counterparts.

>>10742483
>She gets her face eaten, which was fucking hilarious.
Rorge pls

>>10742178
>all of those images
You fucked up the meme. Also, serves you right for not listening to us.

Why are all the reviews on Goodreads written by faggots?

>>10742534
Because only faggots use Goodreads.

>>10742534
i thought they were all written by women

>>10742483
>known as the most ugly woman in the Riverlands
>gets face eaten saving kids and as thanks is hanged by an undead woman (who is most likely more beautiful than her)
Brienne and Jaime are honestly the only reason I'm still hoping GRRM ever finish ASoIaF.

>>10742534
it's sad that the tumblr gif reviews are better than the actual written ones

>>10742534
Because its mostly the women on there that think anyone gives a fuck what they think.

>this review is copied from my blog
>a hundred gifs to show her reaction to things in books
>tons of stupid fucking shelves like "didnt-finish-because-sexism" and "omg-yass-slay-queens"

why did the show shaft Jaime so hard? my man goes from being the #2 best swordsman in Westeros and beating the brakes off of Brienne after being dehydrated and underfed for months, to only being able to fight Ned of all people to a standstill.

Where do you fellas get cool fantasy art from?

Deviantart?

I need to look at some for writing inspiration.

>>10742539
Where's a better place for reviews?

>>10742543
Same thing

>>10742573
/tg/ mostly

About to go watch Annihilation after reading the trilogy this week, hope the film is decent

>>10742573

Just google classic fantasy artists mostly
>luis royo
>frank frazetta
>boris vallejo

>>10742330
Im the Anon asking about Urban Fantasy series, whats wrong with Simon R Green? I mean, you say he's crap but don't give any better recommendations?

>>10742328
I'm going to read this as Asteroid Miner and recommend Heavy Time by Cherryh

>>10742573
Baen

>>10742625

I take it I don't need to read the whole series?

>>10742572
Can't have a child murdering, incestuous traitor being to much of a hero in a christian show.

Also, Brienne fucked Jaime up in ASOS when he tried to escape, just like she did in the show.

>>10742579
Goodreads is fine, just don't go by the top reviews. When looking at reviews, try to find a reviewer with a taste similar to your own and then read his or her review. Also, you can always ask /sffg/.

>>10742661
>a christian show.

Hmmmm. Really made me think.

>>10742642
Series?
>checks goodreads
Huh, those are all in the same "universe" I guess, but they don't have a strong narrative relation. I think Heavy Time is the earliest chronologically anyway.
Yeah, you don't need the rest. Hellburner is a direct sequel if you want another story with most of the same MCs. Sometimes they're published together in a single volume.

>>10742573
Art Station.

>>10742573
>>10742702
Oops, you said fantasy, sorry. Well, there's plenty of that too.

>Sanderson only working on YA and Wax & Wayne this year

>>10742677
>todd howard tries to sell skyrim to sandarson characters.jpg

>>10739786
I at least have a reason for having an old asian mentor

The story depends on the kid he trains going on a journey around the world to learn his trade. Assuming a starting location on the east coast such a journey is bound to end either in asia or on the west coast. The master meanwhile is on the journey because he wants to see home again before he dies, which rules out the west coast

Hypothetically, I could also put him in Oceana (which come to think of it might be an idea) but Australia isn't exactly known for treating everything like an art form

Plus, a magic aboriginal man would probably come off as more offensive than a magic asian master.

>>10741360
Bumping my question

>>10742590
how was the book?

>>10742942
There's actually a wise old aboriginal in Three Body Problem, never seen anyone complain about that. As long as you don't go down the ogaa boga route it'll probably be fine.

Also, as long as your story is set after the European entry into the east Asian scene (+ the time it takes to grow ancient and wise) you could have a old non asian returning to his asian home to die.

>>10742919
>Sanderson
>YA
I remember someone once saying Sanderson's work is YA fiction masquerading as adult fiction, and after reading The Final Empire, I think he was right.

>>10731773
Hello friends, has anyone read William hope Hodgsons books/stories that are not the house on the borderlands? If so what is your favourite?

>>10742991
I think it’s different where magic is involved, but maybe that’s just because I’m imagining Song Of The South. Him being asian might also give me a bit more flexibility seeing as this is a historical (post-victorian) setting. Granted, I don’t know enough about asian immigrant cultural history to say but up until Pearl Harbor the deal sounded a bit less raw.

Alternatively, I might just say fuck it and use fictional countries

>>10742995
mistborn might be on the edge of YA, but his longer books like Stormlight Archive are disqualified on page count alone. if you're going to start counting 600+ page books as YA, then you would have to throw a lot more shit in there along with Sanderson.

"young adult" (women) readers don't like long books for the most part.

Are there any books like Earthsea where white people are the villains?

>>10743029
Honestly, if you're writing a historical fantasy book and don't intend to use your story to actually discuss existing countries and events it's almost always better to use fictional countries inspired by real world countries. Real world countries will just get in the ways, people may find your books offensive, autists will complain about every little detail you get wrong and they might not actually fit your story as well as you like.

>>10731817
You'll see exactly what the Inchoroi are and why they do what they do in later books.

>>10743064
>Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is almost 900 pages long
>unironically implying that Harry Potter is not YA

Is The Years of Rice and Salt good?

>>10743069
True, but then will I have to build the world myself?

A third option is to make it as ambiguous as possible. Erase all but the first letters of the countries and cities, use only the most generic words for the regions (e.g. new world, old world, the near east, the east, the dark continent), and never refer to specific landmarks.

>>10742572
Ned's a good guy so he has to be one of the best at swording in our subversive fantasy series

>>10742661
>Also, Brienne fucked Jaime up in ASOS when he tried to escape, just like she did in the show.
To be fair Jaime was atrophied and still wearing manacles.

>>10742677
English women are disgusting.

>>10743076
The Inchoroi did nothing wrong.

>>10743096
I like what Guy Gavriel Kay does
>world looks similar to Europe
>Historical figures get different names
>Countries get different names
>Byzantine Empire becomes Sarantine Empire

>>10743082
do you have, like, more examples? or are you going to try and disprove what I said with a one book that's an outlier in its own series, nevermind all of YA?

>>10743064
Where are you getting any of this?

>>10743064

what the fuck kind of definition is that lol

Gentlemen, please. Everyone here knows the agreed upon definition of YA is "everything I don't like" because "things I don't like" are "juvenile" and thus for consumption by Young Adults. QED

>>10742328
The Gap Cycle

>Decide to read Sean R Green book Nightshade
>Not 45 pages into the first book
>Stories playing out like a 80's B Movie

Then I get to...

"The rules aren't that different," I said, after a while. "It's still all about the powerful, getting away with murder because they can. And a few of us who won't be beaten down. Fighting our corner, helping those we can, because we must."
"My hero," said Joanna, smiling slightly for the first time.
"I'm no hero," I said, very definitely. "I just find
things. I'm not here to clean up the Nightside. It's too big, and I'm too small. I'm just one man, using what gifts I have to help my clients, because everyone should have someone to turn to, in time of need."
"I never met a man I respected," said Joanna. "Before now. You could have run and left me. Saved yourself. But you didn't. My hero."
She raised her mouth to mine, and after a moment, we kissed. She was warm and comforting in my arms, pressing against my body, and for the first time in a long time, I felt alive again.

Come on man, I may be dumb as bricks and don't have the refined taste of reading books and only looking Cheese Curl-tier books but this on par to a lard-sandwhich
I had to drop it after this, I'm sorry to sound pretentious but fuck man. Dresdan Files had better flavor then this.

>>10742621
I've read 1000+ books. I read 13 of the Nightside and 2 of the secret histories, Simone R Greene a shit. Take my word for it, or not. I don't give a fuck.

>>10743258
Well, there's another author to avoid.

>>10743265
>The Magic Goes Away
How is Nevinyrral?

>>10743265
Tried reading Magicians but couldn't get into it. Is it worth to keep trying? I tried reading Night Watch but the Russian Urban Fantasy didn't get me hooked.
In particular I like it when its High Fantasy clash with Urban Fantasy like a Shadowrun DnD book I guess? Do you have any recommendations around that?

>>10743265
I don't suppose you or anyone else have any lesbian Urban Fantasy or Fantasy books do you? Think the only ones I read were Goblin Fires and Iron Velvet; I'm asking for a friend.

>>10743282
I enjoyed it enough to recommend it.

>>10743289
Shades of Grey
Library at mount char
Iron Dragon's Daughter (kinda)

>>10742251
>Is there any litRPG where a guy gets stuck as a sexy female character and hates it? Asking for a friend.
I refuse to believe no one has done this yet.

>>10743305
Naw. Once I see lgbt as a tag I stay far away from it.

>>10743329
Last thread there was someone stuck as a female, don't know if he hated or not.

>>10743330
They're not THAT bad, and not as bad as that Sean Green exert posted.

>>10743335
>Last thread there was someone stuck as a female
You mean in a book, or one of the posters?

>>10740853
I'd say you're pretty naive. Do you think it's a coincidence that like 90% of published authors (and most famous people in general) all have very similar philosophies and political views? It's more profitable to say what people want to hear.

>>10743447
Just tribalism.

new thread when

>>10743513
somebody save sci-fi
help
i- ,,,

>>10743345
>what is reading comprehension
You were talking about litrpg, I was talking about litrpg.

>>10743340
>Sean Green
Who?

>>10743605
>>10743258

>>10743601
It was a joke you autist

>>10743480
You could call it that. I think of it more as a difference in artists' values. If you alter your work to appeal to more people, then you value money over your own vision. It explains why most popular culture is shit, and people are often either blown away or offended by outliers. People who set out to make something inoffensive to the majority create medoicre art, and people who make something without worrying too much about what the majority thinks create things of more artistic value, whether or not people like it.

>tfw you will never write a litrpg that's even remotely close to being as good as homestuck

why live?

just lmao at yall cowards can't even start a new thread on your own

>>10743775
>>10743775
>>10743775

>>10743702
What do you define as artistic value? Something moral, aesthetic or what?

>>10743778
We're still at page 5, lay down.

>>10742573
I draw it

>>10743785
>What do you define as artistic value? Something moral, aesthetic or what?

Anything that creates a desired reaction for the reader/viewer/etc. If it infuriates them, elates them, disgusts them, makes them think of something in a new context, or (best of all) gives them new ideas, it has artistic value in my opinion. But that's a philosophical question for which I'm sure greater minds than mine have found answers, and I'm just a neurotic 23 year old who has above average writing and storytelling skills. How about you? How do you define artistic value?

>>10743928
Something that illustrates a larger point than merely the story, like making the reader question his assumptions or illustrate some moral point. I'm not a fan of shocking somebody for shock's sake, a work of art will always be a reflection of the values of its creator - consciously or not.

>>10742919
I'm fine with more Wax and Wayne, though he's got another mystery project up on his website, hoping that either Rithmatist 2 or Warbreaker 2

>>10743951
I think you have a good idea of what I would consider something of high artistic value. I agree that shock for shock's sake is creative bankruptcy, but I've also been really disturbed and horrified by things that I would definitely consider artful. I think you said it better than I, the intentions of the artist often decide whether or not something has artistic value.

Is fantasy with a boring main character doomed to fail? I can't figure out how to make mine interesting

>>10741073
I really liked this post anon.

>>10743124
It's not that much of an outliner, the last 4 books are all more than 600 pages long.

The Twilight books are between 550 and 750 pages long each. The Eragon books are fat. The Book Thief (it's YA, right?) is almost 600 pages long.

>>10743096
>True, but then will I have to build the world myself?
Only the parts you intend to use, the rest you can paint in really broad strokes and let the reader figure out. Autistic world building for the sake of it is for /tg/ and idiots like Sanderson.

>>10743010
THE NIGHT LAND