/lit/ - Literature

there's an entire cottage industry of demagogues who make shit tons of money from preaching to a choir of angry, unsophisticated plebs.

welcome to the darkest timeline where words don't mean anything anymore

>>10717742
Nice character assassination of JP

Next time you can talk about how he hates trannies

>>10717742
323 million people live in the United States alone. The amount of people listening to his lectures is a drop of water in the sea. He's not even in the media limelight as much as people imagine.

>>10717742
>t. lower-middle tier midwit intellectual, with no charisma, a goofy appearance

>How did he become so popular?
>he hates trannies

>>10717763
It takes one to know one.

>>10717742
He was recorded telling trannies that they're mentally unsound, and then it went viral within that stupid community, then it leaked out because the world at large thinks that trannies are mentally unsound.

See: Rupi Kaur and her period blood post. The key to success in this era is to make a decent product, and then make a viral video.

>>10717742
As much as a virgin he may look to us, he's a Chad compared to most academics. This is the sad true of academia and the reason why it's crumbling down.

>>10717756
>>10717742
envy
ˈɛnvi/
noun
1.
a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

>>10717742
Murrica and their social justice movement, which in turn spawned the well known array of youtube pseuds, were the biggest mistake of the past 40 years.

>>10717784
Wrong. I'd never want to be like Peterson. He looks weird. His wife is ugly. And his children are on anti depressants. I'd take my life over his any day of the week.
Additionally, I have no interest in fame. I prefer to look from the outside in, rather than the other way around. Also, psychology isn't a science.

>>10717742
Jesus Christ. I don't care much for the cult of personality that has formed around Peterson, but, as cliche as this is, you're actually just a spiteful progressicuck, aren't you?

Petersons ideas aren't new, but they've been, for the most part, disregarded and belittled in the public discourse over the past 30 years. Yes, people did connect with their cultural heritage through Peterson, and in that sense he's taking the role of a father figure, but do you actually believe that that's a valid critique of the ideas he's championing?

>>10717781
>>>/r9k/

>>10717784

are you seriously going to the "FUCK DA HATERZ" argument?

>>10717742
>Nothing he says is particularly interesting and it isn't new.
Sounds like you either haven't listened to or understood a single thing he's said.

>>10717807
are we arguing over something?

>>10717816

I'm just saying you don't need to be envious of someone to despise pundits

ITT: soycial study warriors

>>10717756
/thread

>Go to a Waterstones in Leicester yesterday
>His book is on it's own table with a sign advertising it

He's made it lads.

>>10717803
I'm not a progressive. I'm a catholic reactionary.

>>10717742
It's probably because he's the first person to reconcile religious and secular world views with any amount of success whatsoever, while delivering a message to readers/listeners that improves their mental health and sense of well being.
Why do you have to ask? Even if you hate Peterson, it's obvious why he's doing so well.

>>10717836
>he's the first person to reconcile religious and secular world views
You'll have to expound on that.

>>10717832
sure thing buddy.

>>10717854
>I won't believe what you say because it goes against my imagination of what you should be

>>10717803
>>10717811
>>10717823

>>10717849
Religion is a result of evolution or rather there are evolutionary processes going on that causes human beings to develop religion as a tool. So it is useful and we should not get rid of it without understanding the roles it serves since it helps in the survival of the individual and the tribe. He's clearly grounded in biology and takes evolution seriously.

>>10717849
Basically Peterson provides readings of ancient religious texts which show that the atheist critiques of the past couple years have missed the point entirely by complaining about god being a murderer, timelines not adding up, of accounts differing across historical witnesses, by proving that miracles are scientifically impossible, etc., but also that the religious community was wrong to defend itself on these grounds.

Religious truth, in his view, is a developing and maturing system of stories about the relationship between the individual and the absolute/divine/the good/the logos. God is personified in that our relationship to him can only show itself as a particular, but the universal truth is timeless and unchanging. This requires no faith in miracles, Jesus doesn't even have to be a historical person for it to retain its power.

>>10717849
Interpreting religious stories just like you would any other myth while deriving common themes and archetypes from them precludes religious obscurantism in people who lean religious, and is at least respectable to people who lean atheist. Watch Joe Rogan's (a total atheist) podcast with Peterson. You'll see it in action. Rogan called it his favorite podcast of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ

This is what happens when a generation (boomers) turns institutions of learning into expensive adult day care centers. He is merely a symptom of the rott. Until universities start treating students like students and not ass kissing them like consumers, except more and worse.

>>10717886
You've just turned evolution into a stand-in for god, and the term 'useful' is totally useless without proper contextualization.

>>10717886
>>10717889
How could he be the first to say that? It's so pedestrian.

>>10717901
Nigga, how old are you? Were you even on the internet 5 years ago?

>>10717818
>lower-middle tier midwit intellectual
>no charisma
>goofy appearance
>Kermit the frog voice
4 subjective, degrading labels glued into rhetorical question about success, with immediate answer stating that it is undeserved which also tries to elevate you as a judge (not interesting, not new). Followed by some more in the same manner about his audience with same attempt to degrade it also.


Just clean your room, mr. little Cain.

>>10717894
>watch Joe Rogan
lmao, no thanks

>>10717904
Why would that matter, son?

>>10717901
he isn't the first to say it, he just brought it to a wider audience

This is a shill thread...this same copy pasta is up on /pol/ and /tv/ right now

OH WOW ANOTHER PETESON THREAD WITH THE SAME QUESTIONS WHICH WE DON'T HAVE EVERY SINGLE DAY. I WOULD BET A PERSON WHO IS ASKING THEM ISN'T A NEWFAG

>>10717916
He's abusing these kids.

>>10717906
Cringe

>>10717923
Can confirm.

>>>/pol/160969323

Go clean your damn room, shill.

>>10717756
It's almost as if they have nothing worth saying other than the mountain of lectures they put on youtube for free. SOMEONE CRUCIFY THAT CAPITALIST PIG.

>>10717742
whats with the ugly ass art on his back. is that like his logo? like the X men have the big X, he has this shapeless shit in his office?

>It's probably because he's the first person to reconcile religious and secular world views
The illiterate north american strikes again

> ITT: Spending time on 4chins trying to justify why they're right in what they believe to be some dumb cunt on the other side of the world instead of doing what they know that'll make their lives better outside of their electronic devices, today, tomorrow and the distant, inevitable future.
Make that 25 clueless idiots that don't value their time and are willing to spend it in their futile attempts at fixing up why that fat/tranny/mediocre/faggot/egotistical Internet brainlet is wrong.

>>10717915
Because just a few years ago the discourse about religious truth on the internet was dominated by idiots like TJ. Our generation was pretty disillusioned with religion, and our parents, teachers, etc. were totally powerless to stop them from becoming alienated from culture.

Religious people actually didn't have any answers to retarded questions like 'if god is real then why is there suffering?', or 'doesn't evolution disprove god?' The just stuck their heads in the sand and tried to keep the tradition going by making their children go through the motions, taking them to church, reading from the bible, trying to get them involved in christian youth groups, etc., but individuals want to live according to principles they believe in, not act out what other people expect of them for the sake of peace.

If the answers Peterson gives had been common knowledge, do you really think the religious right would have buckled over like it did?

>>10717987
t. nihilist shill

>>10717898
Useful in terms of outlasting time and random destruction. People don't live in isolation. There's the world with other people in it, natural destruction, famine, limited resources, and time to contend with. Evolution is a process of elimination. If you generate a million variations, only a few of them will survive in this rather difficult world, the rest is eliminated.

>You've just turned evolution into a stand-in for god
That's basic system building you retard. You build your structure of reality from a principles that you accept as true and you derive all else from it. That's what you do in logic, mathematics, and physics.

In terms of Peterson, he holds two system in his head, the evolutionary one and the christian one both. He knows they are difficult to reconcile but there is still an area of overlap that he talks in. Peterson does not remain purely in the christian structure which is why he appeals to atheists and agnostics and Buddhists to an extent. If anything he is more Taoists in believing in order and chaos and pure action.

>>10717989
Nobody's seriously buckling, maybe about his disrespect of trans students but nothing more. It's just an elaborate publicity stunt.

>>10717989
>our generation
you're a shilling idiot

>>10717923
It's up on /tv/? Kek.
I'm the OP of this thread and the one on /pol/, but I didn't post the /tv/ thread. And it's not shilling, you mouth breather, I'm just getting a discussion going.

>>10718006
Sure thing buddy. The fact that discourse paradigm when it comes to moral theory has done a complete 180 from "lol, look at all the contradictions in these religious text, we just gotta use S C I E N C E to create an objective moral system, fuck god" to "dude, morality is about the relationship between the individual and the divine" is just a fluke.

>>10718024
>calling someone a mouth breather while posting kermit threads in 2018

>>10718024
t. Peterson

remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

>>10717742
>no charisma, a goofy appearance, and a Kermit the frog voice
I disregard the opinions of anyone who randomly describes people this way

>>10717742
>
yeah man
Gen X sucked shit at raising kids

>>10718058
>I can't even
You have to go back.

>>10717742
>>10717756
There are indeed swathes of lost young men in the US and Canada raised by single mothers, more often than not doing a poor job with their sons' upbringing, who look to Peterson as a quasi-father figure.

You seem to think these lost generations of young men deserve nothing but contempt, rather than any kind of guiding force out of their depressive life situation. You'd rather spit on them than let them seek out the means to get back on their feet.

I wonder why that is.

>>10718068
>You seem to think these lost generations of young men deserve nothing but contempt, rather than any kind of guiding force out of their depressive life situation. You'd rather spit on them than let them seek out the means to get back on their feet.
Peterson isn't the solution, since he's a mess himself.

>>10717742

Look at his interviews. He's not the problem. Everyone he talks with is utterly retarded: why? He's one of the few persons with average intelligence left in the north american continent. He's just surrounded by a zombie apocalypse of utmost retardation, this is how he looks smart.

The North American continent should just sink like Atlantis and disappear forever for us to be free from the plague of their mental illnesses.

>>10718032
The most annoying thing about Peterson is that mentally challenged plebs now wrap their inane mental diarrhea in verbiage a la "discourse paradigm."
>I have absolutely no experience with discourse on ethics except for for browsing /r/atheism prior to finding Kermit therefore he's "le paradigm shifter"
Right. I also enjoyed the global paradigm shift when humans invented writing when I was 3.

>>10718076
Could be worse. Could be that basket-case Stefan Molyneaux.

>>10718076
this

>>10718076
>>10718094
So what's your solution? Assuming you have actual sympathy for his lost-generation fanbase.

>>10718068
They should look up to their mothers instead of some guy from youtube. Peterson didn't sacrifice himself to raise them. They deserve contempt for their ungratefulness to their mothers.

>>10718076
Do you actually have any criticism of the guys message or are you just going to continue trying to adhom? If you're aware of a person who doesn't have some problems, feel free to point them out to us.

>>10718098
Labor camps and firing squads.

>>10718098
I don't know but the answers lies in education. Meme archetypes won't help them, that's for sure.

>>10718101

>>10718120
he's right tho

>>10718098
A societal collapse. Only then can this entirely artificial social order, which creates distortions in human relationships, can be overcome. It all needs to collapse. Then, naturally, men will go back to being men and will go back to being women.

>>10718098
Find them a personal mentor in a community center that doesn't shill stupid shit like pomo being their boogeyman

>>10718083
i wonder how Molymeme would have turned out if he grew up in a time when Peterson's "pretend to be your dad" thing was going on.

>>10718113
>Let me tell you a story. Your unvenerated father lies deep in the belly of a whale, awaiting your rescue. Guarding it is a lobster at the top of its dominance hierarchy. Pinocchio is pissed. From a Darwinian perspective, it would take the amalgamation of a thousand heroes to save him, roughly speaking. I mean, what do you even do at that point? You're just done, and that's no joke. Only a man who has slain the dragon could face that. But how do you slay your dragon, you might ask? Well, now that's the bloody question you could think about for 5 years and still not properly understand...

>>10718125
>anons are grateful to Peterson
>therefore they must have only contempt for their mothers
>otherwise they should just continue only looking up to their mothers so they can be swallowed up by the great feminine and remain unconscious for the rest of their lives

>>10718129
whats a societal collapse entail in your considered opinion?

>>10718146
Which lecture is this from?

> no charisma
While I agree that he's not a revolutionary thinker, he clearly got his charisma going for him. All modern thinkers are awkward as fuck.

>>10717759
>implying not being a fanboy is character assassination

>>10718160 refer to >>10718046

>>10718148
>complains about being swallowed up by the great feminine
>posts anime girls as reaction pics
you're trolling

>>10718166
it's a venerable tradition

>>10718150
Nuclear war, natural disasters, anything that will set humanity back to pre-modernity.

>>10717742
He ties Red Pill shit in with anxieties about SJWs and modern politics. It's only surprising that it took until 2017 for this kind of guy to come to prominence

>>10718170
for you

>>10718129
>>10718169
Can't these guys just sort themselves out, and then we can avert all that? Or do you just hate the idea of sniveling NEETs sorting themselves out?

>>10717803

>progressicuck

Post-modernism completely rejects any idea of concrete progress you midwit.

>>10718178
read the communist manifesto, then you'd understand where they're coming from.
degenerates.

>>10717742
He stood up against trannies forcing their insanity on academics. Because of this, the left now has an unreasonable hatred for him, and the right now has an unreasonable love for him.

>>10718184
check out this brainlet

>>10718185

Its funny how Peterson constantly rants about science yet doesn't seem to understand the scientific consensus is that being transexual is not a mental illness.

He's the same as all rational skeptics: science when I like it, conspiracy when I don't.

>>10718185
>forcing their insanity on academics
How is asking to be addressed respectfully insane?

>>10718181
No, there's a definitely an element to it which considers itself highly progressive, and which is closely tied to what we understand by progressivism today, namely pushing the cause of absolute relativism in the name of equality. From this point of view, all oppositions, all hierarchies need to be deconstructed in order to create a world without conflicting values.

>>10718185

>>10718113

>>10718201
>this is your brain on peterson

>>10718197
> (((scientific consensus)))
Please neck yourself, you're wasting valuable oxygen my hamster might need.

>>10718148
t. virgin
You are a virgin. Just admit it.

No one today wants to read stuff with even slight reference to the intellectual tradition of Marx, whether it's German, French, postcolonial, whatever.

Does that offend you?

>>10718206
I formed that opinion way before Peterson became a thing, this is literally most of what we do in literary criticism.
>>10718211
Yes.

>>10718185
When Peterson first came onto the scene, he was popular because he refused to say transgender pronouns, particularly the ones like "xe, xir.. etc"

Then he later claimed that he never did that, and instead only was protesting "compelled speech"

It's incredible how no one ever calls him out on this, he's actually trying to rewrite his own saga within the public eye.

>>10718197
psychological diseases cannot be assessed with the scientific method it's just consensus and the reasoning behind not seeing Body Dysmorphia as a disease when gener is involved while it's still seen as a disease as the case with example anorexia is simply a result of social pressure.

With that said, I'm pretty sure Peterson never said that he thinks of transsexuals as mentally ill.

>>10718199
sorry, didnt get the controversy, what was it, were they treated with vulgar or swear words?

>>10718208
>Please neck yourself, you're wasting valuable oxygen
Imagine being so mentally incapacitated and lacking self-awareness that you would actually utter this phrase in the same post where you present multiple parentheses as a counter-argument.

>>10718211
t.cuck

You eat other men's semen from your wife's (male) hole, just admit it

>>10718214
>I formed that opinion way before Peterson
Well now we've deduced a point in time where you stopped developing.

>>10718224
Just have the balls to admit it, like this guy >>10718214
you pathetic cunt.

>>10718199
If you don't call pic related a "girl" then you are an evil bigot

>>10718201

There isn't. Post-modernism is skepticism toward grand narratives, and the idea that human progress is linear and we're advancing to some kind of end goal is probably one of the most obvious grand narratives you can have.

>namely pushing the cause of absolute relativism in the name of equality

Post-modernism doesn't push "relativism". Why go and read some post-modern literature instead of second hand sources.

>all oppositions, all hierarchies need to be deconstructed in order to create a world without conflicting values.

Again, you don't understand what post-modernists say, you're arguing with a strawman.

>>10718208

Case in point.

>>10718215
Lefty types seem to oscillate between "He won't use transgender pronouns, the monster" and "Lel, he makes such a big deal about not using pronouns that no one cares about".

>>10718218
look it up you lazy fag

>>10718232
If you're a teacher you have a duty to treat students with basic respect.

>>10718231
My insult is more damning then yours, so I win

>>10718243
Trannies should be shamed as much as possible.

>>10718216

>psychological diseases cannot be assessed with the scientific method

Oh, so now science doesn't answer every question? Funny that science only seems to work when it affirms what you believe isn't it?

>the reasoning behind not seeing Body Dysmorphia as a disease when gener is involved while it's still seen as a disease as the case with example anorexia is simply a result of social pressure.


Because its not "body dysmorphia", its gender dysphoria. They're two different things. And gender dyphoria *is* considered a mental illness because it interferes with your daily life. Its being transgender that is not considered a mental illness. You can be transgender and not have gender dyphoria.

>>10718185
>He stood up against trannies
Trannies are a huge threat bro, fuck we better stop them!

>>10718243
Indulging someone's play-pretend taken too far is not "basic respect."

>>10718243
the definition of basic respect is what's in question

>>10718251
>Trannies are a huge threat bro, fuck we better stop them!

See:

>>10718234

>>10718247
Why would you say that?

>>10718246
My insult is true, yours is not. So, actually, I win.

>>10718251
Trannies themselves aren't, but the encroachment of this kind of insanity into academia is.

>>10718255
You can check Peterson's employer guidelines.

>>10718257
A healthy society orients itself such that the outsider is forced to change himself to fit into the collective as much as is possible, and suffer the consequences if he stays and fails. We live in a world that is almost entirely the opposite of that.

I don't understand the attraction to this guy, and even more so, the opposition.

He's saying pretty milquetoast self help stuff combined with some weird Campbell-esque christianity. What makes him so special that the right obsessively loves him and the left obsessively hates him?

>>10718257
not him, don't agree necessarily, but

Certain cultural norms are more beneficial to the pursuit of certain outcomes, and social shame is a mechanism for enforcing adherence them

>>10718274
>the right obsessively loves him
I don't think you even know what "the right" is.

>the left obsessively hates him
He speaks truth to Cultural Marxism.

>>10718257
Because they're disgusting aberrations of nature, and shouldn't be encouraged.

>>10718274
His views on post-modernism

>>10718263
I accept your concession

>>10718250
>You can be transgender and not have gender dyphoria.
what?
>Funny that science only seems to work when it affirms what you believe isn't it?
there is some Peterson fans that imply that everything he say is Objective fact. I'm not one of them, and to my knowledge he haven't implied that either.

>>10718281
>Cultural Marxism.
Prove it exists
>inb4 muh frankfurt school that you've never read.

>>10718281

>>10718266
tenure exists to give professors the freedom to stretch the boundaries of that sort of bureaucracy so they're not intellectually constrained by popular political pressures

>>10718288
Cultural marxism is just a loose term and sperging out when people use it to group some of the shitty thinkers you like makes you look as dumb as those people who pretend they don't know what neoliberalism is just so they can avoid the argument.

>>10718288
>>10718291
Why is it /leftypol/ faggots getting into such an obsessive tizzy over his post-modernism talk if post-modernism is unrelated to Marxism?

>>10718295
Prove it.

>>10718294
Do you think that's why he still has his teaching position?

>>10718297
Post-modernism is a rejection of grand narratives, among other things. Marxism is a grand narrative, dummy.

>>10718274
Americans and their idols. They are born to worship, so they take them very seriously. And every aspect of their civilization is so theatricalized that it seems ridiculous to an outside observer

>>10718299
It's just the name for a collection of ideas, are you special?

>>10718233
there can be a difference between what people say they believe and how they act. Po-mo types act like they're progressing towards something, or otherwise they wouldn't be motivated to attend protests

>>10718304
I thought he was Canadian?

>>10718303
That doesn't answer the question.

Marxists hate it when he insults pomo.
You say pomo is contra to Marxism.
What's going on?

>>10718233
Nigga, read the thread. I never asserted that OP was a postmodernist, the person replying to me inferred that from my calling him a progressicuck.

I actually like Derrida quite a bit (though Foucault can burn in hell and Barthes was a bit of an idiot), and I do agree that Memerson is just using the term post-modernism as a stand-in for what he's really up against: LARPing millennials who think they are revolutionaries.
The fun part is, this doesn't change the fact that they are a threat (just like the alt-right memelords might turn into a threat at some point in the future), but no one would take him seriously if he said that people who call themselves feminists and marxists, even though they haven't even read das Kapital, let alone Marx embarrassing attempt at critiquing Hegel's Philosophy of Right, people without a shred of intellectual credibility, are infiltrating our universities with political pressure.
Also, like >>10718309 pointed out, many of these jokers do consider themselves postmodernists, again, more as a fashion statement than anything else.

>ITT: redditors defending their daddy

>>10718303
That's true, but postmodernists still rely on the same normative axioms that Marxism relies on: Equality.

>>10718301
because he has tenure? Undoubtedly yes. If he was adjunct faculty he would've been canned right away

>>10718295
>another pointless buzzword for "things I don't like" used as if it's an argument in and of itself
>you sure do look stupid calling me out for being retarded bruh

>>10718313
>What's going on?
What's going on is that your definition (and petersons) of Marxism and pomo are synonymous with "everything I don't like". The irony is that Peterson is himself pomo, especially with his reading of Christianity.

>>10718303
Define pomo by what it is instead of all the things it isn't so we can get on with our lives bucko.

>>10718266
Did you actually answer the question of what constitutes proper conduct by refering to official guide-lines? Cause that's some peak fascism reasoning right there.

>>10718318
who do you look up to? what are their admirable qualities?

>>10718325
What argument? We're just on definitions and you're losing your mind, it's pretty cringy desu.

>>10718319
Prove it.

>>10718334
holy hyperbole batman

>it took 100 posts for the thread to devolve into /r/the_poltard/ bickering
Well, that's better than it was half a year ago, I guess.

>>10718288
>>Cultural Marxism.
>Prove it exists
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0128.xml
https://catalogue.pearsoned.co.uk/educator/course/Minority-Group-Politics/91097606.page
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/sociology/chapter/racial-ethnic-and-minority-groups/
http://racism.org/

>>10718353
>thinks I don't like are cultural Marxism

>>10718312
This is not a Canadian forum, love.

>>10718303
Wrong you fucking retard. That is the condition that Lyotard describes in The Post-modern condition (which all of you imbeciles should read), not his personal philosophy.
>>10718327
You dumb fucking faggot, post-modernism isn't a coherent movement with a manifesto. "Post-modernism" in philosophy is an umbrella term used to denote a bunch of thinkers from France and Italy. Start here https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/postmodernism/

>>10718350
>the employer guidelines state that professors need to refer to students by their preferred pronouns
>therefore Peterson is not showing his students proper respect by refusing to do so
the empirical rules of your society and justice aren't the same thing, Hitler-kun.

>>10718359
>arguing semantics while calling people retards
It's a given for Kermit threads that pomo is used as a synonym for post-structuralism, which is what the man does himself. Go spill the incredible insights from your freshman curriculum somewhere else, angry brainlet.

>>10717742
Imagine how bad the left must be if they can't even put together someone like Peterson.
These morons spend so much time criticizing this guy instead of asking themselvs "wait a moment, why don't we have one ourselves?"

>>10718369
>the empirical rules of your society and justice aren't the same thing
They literally are, cretin.

>>10718369
How do you see them differ?

>>10718382
Justice is what is beneficial, my man.

>>10718287

>what?

If you transition, then the dysphoria can be alleviated or go away completely, and some trans people are trans but just don't get dysphoria.

>>10718309
No they don't. Most people, including many on the left, don't even know what PoMo is. That's why Peterson is able to spread his shit so wide and far, because reading academic PoMo is difficult and often rather dull, so midwits prefer to listen to someone who dumbs it down to the point of absurdity and then still manages to get it wrong. The PoMo academics don't get a chance to defend themselves because no-one bloody reads it.

>>10718317

>this doesn't change the fact that they are a threat

What threat? Asking you to be respectful to someone with a illness that claims the lives of 45% of people who have it? Saying maybe we should put more minorities on TV so they actually, you know, feel like they're part of society? I mean, these aren't really apocalyptic demands here, yet the way people like Sargon talk about them, you'd think gender pronouns were codewords for setting off a false vacuum.

>people without a shred of intellectual credibility, are infiltrating our universities with political pressure.

OK here we again, anything I don't like is a conspiracy. How the fuck are infiltrating universities with political pressure? The republicans own the senate and Trump is president. Did you ever think maybe they're teaching in universities because they actually have something academically useful to say?

>many of these jokers do consider themselves postmodernists

So what. I mean you can't even really identify as a post-modernist, just like you can't identify with "the enlightenment". And if you think you've managed to grow up in a society that has been post-modern for 70 years and not had your ideas influenced by it yourself, you just lack self-awareness.

>>10718382
Don't give in to namecalling, anon.

>>10718398
>this level of retardation
You could brappost and it would be more meaningful.

>>10718382
>>10718398
are we really doing this again?

>>10718398
(not him)
how do you decide what beneficial is

>>10718083
>>10718145
i don't think that can work, Molymeme is just a theater kid playing a philosopher, so he can parrot stuff but he can't generate anything of his own.

Memerson is smart enough to generate his own bullshit

>>10718398
Ok, what about the empirical rules of your society?

>>10718243
if you are a guy with hairy balls part of basic respect should include not wearing a skirt, but that's just my opinion

>>10718353
Marixism is hoax. There are no marxist academics because all of his nonesensical theories were debunked decades ago. He did have an impact on early economic theory, but not much. The only "marxists" that actually exist today are uneducated 20 somethings and overgrown adult brain-children who cling to notions that can only exist in a thought vacuum afforded by an outright refusal to learn anything about history, sociology or political economics. Paglia was right, there are no leftist academics.

>>10718398
beneficial to whom, my dude

>>10718401
>If you transition, then the dysphoria can be alleviated or go away completely, and some trans people are trans but just don't get dysphoria.

right. I'm with you with the post transition part but I disagree with the second part. If you're "trans" and you don't have dysphoria you're not trans, you're just looking for attention.

>maybe we should put more minorities on TV so they actually, you know, feel like they're part of society?
well here's your problem. It's impossible to represent every conceivable group and if you define yourself based on your gender and race specifically that just makes you a sexist and a raciest respectively, and then you're the problem.

>he good daddy to younglings therefore he good
He's a daddy alright and these "younglings" do need people who they can look up to, But Memerson's thoughts are destructive to these younglings who want to have a world view of their own but aren't mature enough to handle and respect anybody else's. In that, they're no better than the people Memerson is rallying them against.
Zizek was right in saying it is absolute failure of the contemporary left that sold it soul to neo-liberal ideology in return for commodified social justice and equality that a big charlatan like Jordan "let me give you life affirming truism and platitudes for Patreon money" Peterson seems so appealing. This is truly a disgrace.

>>10718444

People can be trans and not have dysphoria in the same way people can feel down, upset and a lack of motivation without being depressed. Dysphoria arises from being trans, but its not the main motivating factor for transitioning.

>It's impossible to represent every conceivable group

I don't think it is at all, but even if it is, that doesn't mean we should just not do it at all. Its impossible to stop every crime being committed, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

>if you define yourself based on your gender and race specifically that just makes you a sexist and a raciest respectively

No it doesn't, and intersectionalism doesn't encourage you to do that at all. In fact, the clue is in the name "intersectionalism". Its the idea that a person isn't just their sex or race, but a complex matrix of factors of which sex and race are included, but not the only influence.

>>10718449
it didn't work, sorry

>>10718462
those younglings are 30-something year olds and have hairy balls

zizek is a obsolete, he got stagnated in the post-ideological world, but we live in a post-post-ideological world now, he is no longer needed

>>10718006
> disrespect to trans students
Literally when m8?

>>10718473
>People can be trans and not have dysphoria in the same way people can feel down, upset and a lack of motivation without being depressed. Dysphoria arises from being trans, but its not the main motivating factor for transitioning.
so you are saying they still have mild dysphoria

>>10718473
intersectionality was pleb scholarship from day 1, sorry, we took them seriously as a patronizing joke but it got taken too far

>>10718483
>post-post-ideological world
Define it. How's it different to Zizek's post whatever the fuck.

>>10718473
>I'm not just my race or sex
>my race/sex isn't on TV so I'm not part of society
explain this

>>10717742

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jef2C4T1_A

He's so retarded. "hurr durr I see zero problems with gay marriage but because da cultural marxists like it too I'm gonna oppose it"

>with no charisma
He comes of as extremely sincere. Sincerity (whether real or not) is extremely charismatic.

>>10718375
Then why are the fucking pseuds ITT arguing over what post-modernism (post-structuralism) means as if it were a single, coherent set of idea? Retard.
>your freshman curriculum
I'm a physics major.

>>10718503

>so you are saying they still have mild dysphoria

They may do, they may not at all, but what I'm saying is dysphoria and being transgender are not the same thing. A trans person is someone who does not identify with their birth gender, and a cis person is someone who does. Gender dysphoria is a mental pain that arises from not identifying with your birth gender, and sometimes it comes and sometimes it goes.

>>10718509

Well I can explain it if you don't be so reductionist. Its not that you are your race or sex, its that people may unintentionally discriminate against you because of that aspect of your personality. This is why the BBC keeps putting minorities in period dramas, because Black Asian Middle-East (BAME) actors keep having to move abroad to America and Canada because they can't find work because its not historically accurate to have them in dramas about British history. That's a form of discrimination that isn't malevolent. So the BBC has decided to waive historical accuracy to be inclusive.

But the alt-right are acting like the BBC is literally saying that Queen Victoria was Kenyan or that Black and Chinese people were knocking around London in 1400 when they're not. They just understand the shows are a representation of what happened not a historical reenactment, so its consistent to include minorities in these shows.

>>10718509
my ideal racial relationship (white/white) isnt displayed on tv so its not part of society anymore

>>10718508
>If our concept of ideology remains the classic one in which the illusion is located in knowledge, then today's society must appear post-ideological: the prevailing ideology is that of cynicism; people no longer believe in ideological truth; they do not take ideological propositions seriously. The fundamental level of ideology, however, is not of an illusion masking the real state of things but that of an (unconscious) fantasy structuring our social reality itself. And at this level, we are of course far from being a post-ideological society. Cynical distance is just one way ... to blind ourselves to the structuring power of ideological fantasy: even if we do not take things seriously, even if we keep an ironical distance, we are still doing them. (Žižek 1989, p.33)
all of that that, which laid the basis of Zizek's ideological analysis slowly broke after 9/11, 2008, Brexit, Trump, now people clearly hold explicitly beliefs again, that's why it's post-post-ideological.

You can no longer justify your liberal capitalist economics with sentences like "it's just common sense", "it's how the market is", "politics is all the same", "you can't really change anything", "it's how it is"

Zizek hasn't done his homework and that's why he hasn't said anything interesting since we experienced that transition.

>>10718537
even if you actually want to fight discrimination, discrimination scholarship is also a meme at this point. The people engaging in it are not even trying to fight it, ignore the outcome of any intervention they implement, even if it's negative by their own standards, and just keep getting more and more entangled in their own web of lies

>>10717742
>Do American and Canadian males (his main audience), and I would add the anglo-centric world as a whole, not have proper father figures? It seems like most of his followers are experiencing their missed father-son relationship through Peterson
This is absolutely correct, and I think it is wonderful that Peterson is able to fill that role.
I haven't read or heard Peterson put forth any particularly groundbreaking ideas, however he seems like a perfectly competent psychologist and a more than competent educator.
Although most of his audience will mistakenly worship him as some kind of intellectual titan, they have become more than willing to learn from him.
Jordan Peterson is most important in a pedagogical sense, as he has solved a large problem facing American educators by getting the attention of 15-18 year old boys.

>>10718562

I don't really understand what you're saying. The reason scholarships to universities are given to groups that historically under-perform in society is because education is the biggest predictor of success in life, so the problem is going to keep perpetuating if under educated people keep begetting under educated people. The scholarships are a way to break the cycle and start introducing under-performing groups into education so that they don't under perform.

>>10718537
I'll start with agreeing that people who get upset about racial accuracy in dramas are mostly ridiculous, but there is some times when the drama depict racism where this would be confusing, but let's not get into that.

>be so reductionist
It's the BBC and you who are reductionist, since you keep taking up race and sex as the most important part of how you're represented. the explicitly write in their policies to take race and sex into account
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/diversity/pdf/equality-information-report-2017.pdf
it makes absolutely no sense fighting discrimination by highlighting specified minority groups in your actual written policies

>>10718579
>scholarship
>noun UK /ˈskɒl.ə.ʃJp/ US /ˈskɑː.lɚ.ʃJp/
>[ U ] serious, detailed study:
>>"a work of great scholarship"

>>10718531
>post-structuralism as if it were a single, coherent set of idea
Because it is a fuzzy set of highly related intertwined ideas and critical frameworks which often share axiomatic bases and operational methodologies. It's entirely appropriate to address them as a whole when the critique is aimed primarily at their shared attributes.
>I'm a physics major.
Drop it before they realize you can't into basic ZFC and first order logic. Calling people brainlet retards in flat-earth threads is about as high as your scientific career could possibly go.

>>10718588

>since you keep taking up race and sex as the most important part of how you're represented

No we're not, those instances where we do are just all you're focusing on. Class for example is often mentioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27904204

There are lots of different factors that are always mentioned: class, what type of family you're from, whether you've struggled with a disability or mental illness, your age, weight, physical appearance, the list goes on.

>>10718563
>by getting the attention of 15-18 year old boys.
By the means of creating a boogeyman. I don't really think it's mentally healty to let some 15 year old teenager or 30 year old NEET think that all their problems are because of a massive marxist conspiracy. Even if Marxism and those Frankfurt intellectuals and bloody postmodernists never existed, the 30 year old NEET would still be a NEET and 15 year old teenager would still be wasting his time on video games or Netflix.
I hope Peterson is a better private practitioner than a social psychologist, otherwise he's a total fraud all around and ruining peoples psyche on every platform.

>>10718537
>>10718537
More recently they have begun writing in BAME parts into historical shows (the recent one set in the Dutch renaissance can’t remember name but was v good comes to mind), with the parts often based around slavery etc. Which I think is more problematic, colour blind casting was well meaning I suppose.

But the idea of “representation” is preposterous: 4% of the U.K. populatio is illiterate - where are the illiterate MPs!

>>10718562
Discrimination is a false charge though, people say they are against it but every single person in the way they live demonstrates it. It’s like stereotyping. You can say you don’t discriminate until you are blue in the face, but no one lives like an egalitarian.

And this is because it’s demonstrably false; things and people aren’t equal. Handel and hip hop aren’t of the same cloth.

>>10718603
you're right I was the reductionist.

I just think that avoiding mentioning these factor would be a better way to have them be ignored. Because that is the goal right? Ignoring group-affliction so that you can be respected as an individual.

>>10718312
His fanbase isn't

>>10717889
So he's an atheist.

>>10718243
If you don't call me Lord Supreme, you are disrespecting me, bigot!

>>10718295

>>10718628

That's not something that's inherent to you though. When you ask "where are the illiterate MPs", I'd rather ask "why are there illiterate people?" Can't really do that with gender or race can you?

But actually, I would be all for illiterate people having a voice, maybe listening to them would help identify why they're illiterate and what can be done about it.

>>10718655

Intersectionality wants that, but the reason it exists and its link to PoMo is that because you've been raised in a society, stereotypes and ideas about it inevitably bleed into you and you don't have a comparison on which to accurately judge people. There isn't another Britain with exactly the same history we can look at and see what's fundamental and what's random sampling error. So we always have to be careful when talking about groups of people, because we don't know if we have inherent biases against them taken from our limited samples.

For example, people often think all Asian people are smart. They're not, its just that the Asian people in the West had enough money and were educated well enough to come here. If you plucked some random Nork farmer from the fields and made him sit his SATs, he wouldn't do so well. That's one way in which sampling error has caused many people to be racist without even realizing it.

This is why intersectionalists often say "everyone is racist", they're not saying everyone runs around in klan hood throwing black people into a giant blender, they're saying everyone, even minorities, have inherent biases taken from the society they live in. All they're asking is that people recognize that and be more careful when making grand statements about groups of people.

>>10718680
>For example, people often think all Asian people are smart. They're not, its just that the Asian people in the West had enough money and were educated well enough to come here. If you plucked some random Nork farmer from the fields and made him sit his SATs, he wouldn't do so well. That's one way in which sampling error has caused many people to be racist without even realizing it.
made me kek, do you unironically believe this? please be trolling

>>10718687

Yes I do "unironically" believe it because that's what the evidence shows. If you have a problem then provide some evidence its not true.

>>10718689
what evidence? your ass?

>>10718615
Agreed, and conspiratorial theories blame those ideas on people instead of combatting the ideas directly. The whole Foucaultian alliance between the capitalist centre and Frankfurt left though has been catastrophic, especially for the young

>>10718703
>Foucaultian alliance between the capitalist centre and Frankfurt left
lol

lol sage and report

>>10718517
>that video
How can people take this pseud seriously? It's outright depressing.

What did he mean by this?

>>10718760
>the virgin wall of text
>the chad one liner

>>10718779
Unfortunately they apparently removed that review. Now the most popular negative review is a three-star with only 8 likes lol

why does Peterson like Joe Rogan so much

>>10718405
>>10718409
>>10718412
>>10718439
You faggots are missing the point entirely. 'What's just is what's beneficial' is obviously a Republic shitpost, not a philosophical treatise, but alright, I'll indulge you. You're insane if you actually believe that you're going to be given you a perfect definition of justice in a 4chan post though.
I am delighted to hear you say so, and shall begin by speaking, as I proposed, of the nature and origin of justice.

If you think that something becomes just, simply 'by being part of the law', then any law will, in your view be just by definition. With this, the state is given the status of the absolute (hence state absolutism). Individuals are valued according to how well they play be the arbitrary rules of their society. Rather than justice, all you get from 'following da rules' in this way is a tyranny, subservience to those who make the rules.
So if we want just rules, we mean that the rules need to measure up to justice as an external standard. But then, where does that standard come from? Who decided on it, and based on what metric?
This is the point at which we would basically need to review Hegels conception of the idea as subject, but since that aint happening I'll try to explain it in a commonsense way.

The first laws were not 'new inventions', but simply the common practices of a society, organized into a rulebook. They were beneficial because they turned the implicit common sense, which is pretty shaky ground, and leaves room for a lot of arbitrary nepotism and mistreatment of certain members of a society, into something which could be judged as an object. If the law is defined well, you can generally tell whether it has been broken or not, and people don't get put into prison simply for being unpopular.
But what are those common practices, and on what basis do they claim to be just? Imo just practices are ways of being which can be iterated throughout longer stretches of time and are open to transformation under the right circumstances. If a different mode of being emerges, the old one would slowly but surely be given up, but that does not mean that the old mode was invalid all along. What's 'real' isn't the new way of being, but the transformation of the whole system through which it can relate to itself in a more comprehensive way.
Justice is a self-transformng mode of being. It's a way in which an individual interacts with others and even with itself as an other. Justice can be in the hands of the law, but it can also be in opposition to it. If Peterson believes that letting his government legislate the way in which people positively address each other isn't a functioning iterate game, then it is his right to act according to his own understanding of what is just, rather than blindly following the law.

>>10718664
Hegel would have been an atheist according to that definition as well. They both believe in the absolute, and that's really the essence of what we mean by god imo.

>>10718792
does he know that the CBC is actually a TV channel

>>10718793
>you're going to be given you
fugg, I'm getting too tired for this

>>10718792
he was a nerdy kid who looked up to actual big guys

>>10718792
>CBC is a broadcaster primarily
>has to pay salaries and maintain buildings and equipment around the country
>HURR WHY DO THEY SPEND SO MUCH AND WHY ISN'T THEIR YOUTUBE HAVING MILLIONS OF SUBS

I thought he was intelligent

>>10718792
Joe Rogan is the intelligencia of the North American working class.

>>10718792
>>10718817
MMA fans are rich fucks who pay huge prices for pay-per-views every month, they're not working class

>>10718815
You know it sort of insults Joe Rogan by making him look cheap

>>10718815
.t would be funny if the CBC started spending actual money on their youtube and it gained loads of subscribers.

>>10718079
Yeah I can't wait for you yuropoors to be wiped off the face of the earth muhammad and co.

>>10718834
>providing vivid illustration to his point
Nice one.

>>10718680
Poster is only partly right.
>>10718692
https://www.npr.org/2014/05/12/311857049/asian-americans-are-successful-but-no-thanks-to-tiger-parenting
>If you look at profiles of these groups, they're more highly educated than other immigrants who come to the United States. And they're more highly educated than the average American. And so the children of Asian immigrants, like Chinese immigrants, tend to achieve high educational outcomes in part because their parents are so highly educated.

but:
https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2013/fall/poon
>Seen as the model minority, Asian Americans work to fulfill the cultural demands of their families and societal expectations of American society by being diligent workers with high academic standards (Panelo, 2010). The demand for spectacular academic and vocational achievement comes from the Confucian value of filial piety, as Asian Americans work hard to fulfill their parents’ demands and lessen the burdens their parents carry as Asian American immigrants. In addition to past discrimination against Asian Americans, the model minority stereotype makes it difficult for Asian Americans to express themselves outside of their academic and social expectations. As a result, Asian Americans pursue “socially acceptable” occupations in the fields of science and technology in order to achieve upward social mobility, or socioeconomic success. In other words, Asian Americans choose professions that may not align with their personal interests because other occupations such as being a famous celebrity or U.S. politician are incredibly difficult for Asian Americans to attain and any failed attempts would only block them from achieving socioeconomic success (Sue & Okazaki, 1990).

>>10718821
there are bars and piracy

>>10718821
TYL the American working class get paid more than most college grads.

>>10718846
Ok I get piracy. Nobody here would go to a bar though lol

>>10718205
>butthurt Marxists cannot argue for why he's wrong
>engage in character assassination and weak memery in place of making a point

lol these people are actually disgusting. lower than pond scum. give up on your autistic fantasy of overthrowing the system and creating heaven on earth. read Dostoevsky for fucks sake.

>>10718792
Is he really that stupid or does he says these things to get (You)s?

>>10718845
first link
>LEE: We found that work ethic primarily explains the Asian-White achievement gap in terms of grades. This is work ethic as measured by teacher ratings of children's attentiveness, their motivation, how hard they are perceived to work in the classroom.
so asian culture is superior

2nd link basically is saying that social pressure towards success works by applying actual pressure instead of magical thinking, who would have thought

>>10718864
His twitter account is much stupider than he is in person. I think he wants to gain popularity on twitter because his amount of twitter followers is smaller than his amount of youtube subscribers

>>10717771
>The key to success in this era is to make a decent product
>Rupi Kaur
what did you mean by this? Nobody who knows anything about poetry takes her seriously, it's just that most are afraid to speak out because she's a proud woke WOC

>>10718853
nobody here is working class either

>>10718864
no bully cat pls

>>10718864
It's easy to get brownie points among his fanbase for criticizing mainstream media (especially the CBC) and for praising a fellow "redpilled" Youtuber like Rogan.

>>10718874
maybe the people in /biz/ wearing barrels after the crypto crash would count

>>10718862
>read Dostoevsky for fucks sake

>>10718866
>asian culture is superior
in making children that gets good grades sure.

>>10718872
everybody is 10x as stupid on twitter as anywhere else, all the mental garbage you would would realize how retarded it is if you thought about it 5 seconds just get siphoned into twitter instead

>>10717742
Peterson has integrity, which is almost non-existent in today's intellectuals.

>>10718872
>His twitter account is much stupider than he is in person.
I honestly think this twitter is closer to his 'real' self than anything if he isn't trolling with that post and this too

>>10718880
well if you want to succeed in earning money it's a good start, if you don't pressure your kids into putting the effort then don't cry when they turn out more retarded and poor

there's a reason the pressure is applied by the parents and the reason is that it works

>>10718874
Not here, but I've met working class people on pol.

>>10718893
i try not to go there

>>10718874
>>10718893

The whole point of being anonymous is to obscure this, people saying it doesn't make it so

>>10718891
>there's a reason the pressure is applied by the parents and the reason is that it works
In making kids mindless drones that can't adapt to changes? sure. But that doesn't make asian culture superior

>>10718891
Asians will be very easy to replace with bots and other rudimentary AI products. And they'll compete against each other to take the lead in crafting their own replacement technology. If that's not economic productivity, I don't know what is.

>>10718906
there are tons of working class people on every board and you fcking faggots talk about yourselves near constantly

>>10718915
I agree with the second part

>>10718866
>skims both articles to cherry pick
>misses the point
yes, the original post acknowledged that anon was not entirely accurate to attribute asian american academic performance to affluent parents (though not entirely wrong either), but if these studies indicate anything, it's that anon is essentially right. the stereotype exists for a reason, but that reason becomes self-enforcing. the "social pressure" you're referring to is not entirely within asian-american communities, but often comes from a belief that the adopted culture won't accept you in non-stem roles.
you've also not understood the way u.s. immigration policies self-select for asians possessing "superior asian culture" - there's a reason that the pressure parents exert occurs through threats to "go back to china" and it's not because their parents believe chinese culture is superior...

>>10718909
>>10718913
you say that until the unscrupulous chinks genetically engineer 7'2" 220 IQ Chad Chinks who will replace us all

>>10718891
not tiger mothers. both studies concluded against the tiger mother thesis.

>>10718915
>there are tons of working class people on every board
Unless you mean proletariat, I very much doubt a typical working class member would spam memes at all, let alone on 4chan

>>10717742
Agreed, except the low charisma part. Dude knows how to conduct himself in speech.

>>10718924
>This is your brain on memes

>>10718926
>working class
>unless you mean proletariat

>>10718919
i am not sure what's your point either? society is complicated? yes, doesn't mean you gain anything from treating chinks as if they were brainwashed retards instead of people making their own decisions

yes, people from different cultures can't move and be seamlessly absorbed into another culture, tell me something i didn't know before

>>10718926
Are wagecucks working class?

>>10718919
it's also not only u.s. immigration policies. chinese exit-visas are notoriously difficult to get. they require not only proof of substantial capital in china, but also significant social weight, hence only the elite manage to emigrate. and again, there's a reason that the elite always want to emigrate

>>10718947
Is it a blue collar work at least?

>>10717756
There always has been desu, communication technology just took it to new levels.

>>10718950
It's menial unskilled food service labor

>>10718946
>chinks do better because they have tiger parents
>you shouldn't treat chinks like brainwashed retards
the point is precisely that the reason chinese and other asian americans perform better is
complicated and not reducible to "strict parents" - multitude of factors, most important of which, studies indicate, seems to be auto-perpetuating stereotypes which cause asian-americans to choose against their individual interests.

>>10718962
how is doing better against their individual interests?

>>10718924
You can't program the creative impulse or the pioneering spirit. There are no Chinese Beethoven's or Leonardo's.

A high IQ 7'2 chad bot would be a 3 for 1, replacing it's asian creator, a black NBA star and a jewish lawyer all at once. This is why they fear the Samurai.

>>10718966
The individual can decide to do better according to its own conception of better, which is opposed to the conception of the society they were brought up in. I know, it's amazing.

>>10718966
>https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2013/fall/poon
>Asian Americans choose professions that may not align with their personal interests because other occupations such as being a famous celebrity or U.S. politician are incredibly difficult for Asian Americans to attain and any failed attempts would only block them from achieving socioeconomic success

https://themighty.com/2017/01/asian-american-mental-health-depression/
>Suicide is the second leading cause of death for Asian-Americans between the ages of 15 and 34, consistent with the national data. But U.S.-born Asian-American women have a higher lifetime rate of suicidal thoughts than that of the general U.S. population; that’s 15.9 percent of Asian-American women, as compared to 13.5 percent of the general population. Suicide death rates are 30 percent higher for Asian-American females between 15 and 24 than they are for white females in the same age range. Asian-Americans are also less likely to seek help for their emotional or mental health problems than white Americans, according to data from the American Psychological Association.

this problem is significantly worse in mainland china
http://www.theworldofchinese.com/2013/03/the-last-resort-chinas-growing-suicide-problem/
https://www.economist.com/news/china/21605942-first-two-articles-chinas-suicide-rate-looks-effect-urbanisation-back

>>10718991
>>10718994
they are free to whatever they want if they abandon their family

>>10719018
yes, that's true. the individual is always free to do an infinite number of possible things, but the original discussion was about general trends and the reasons for those trends. you're answer is ironic given that you started from "asians have a better culture and stricter parents and those factors enable them to succeed"

>>10719033
>you're answer is ironic given that you started from "asians have a better culture and stricter parents and those factors enable them to succeed"
i'm still holding that position

>>10717742
anglo culture no longer values culture

>>10719060
mein gott!

>>10719047
see: >>10718692
How's that for giving you (you)s?

>>10719108
i am not sure what kind of sources do you want, all the articles you guys posted support that claim about the success, you just argued that they having less freedom is somehow bad which i don't share, and that they kill themselves slightly more, which i accept but it still doesn't negate the success

>>10719130
everyone agrees asian americans on average perform higher than other ethnicities. both studies, however, dispute the notion that "strict parents" or "better culture" are the predominant cause of that fact. most of the research literature disagrees with amy chua's thesis

>>10719142
so what are the causes that even poor asians do breddy gud compared with other poors?

>>10719161
>the model minority stereotype makes it difficult for Asian Americans to express themselves outside of their academic and social expectations. As a result, Asian Americans pursue “socially acceptable” occupations in the fields of science and technology in order to achieve upward social mobility, or socioeconomic success. In other words, Asian Americans choose professions that may not align with their personal interests because other occupations such as being a famous celebrity or U.S. politician are incredibly difficult for Asian Americans to attain and any failed attempts would only block them from achieving socioeconomic success

>>10717756
>not wanting to feel Peterson's seed deep in your man-cunt.

>>10719161
https://www.brookings.edu/research/asian-american-success-and-the-pitfalls-of-generalization/
>The first is a superiority complex—a deep-seated belief in their exceptionality. The second appears to be the opposite—insecurity, a feeling that you or what you’ve done is not good enough. The third is impulse control.” Psychologists have tested Chua’s “triple package” empirically, however, and found little support for her thesis.
>Why do young Asian-Americans have a stronger belief in the connection between effort and education? One obvious point—though often overlooked—is that Asian-Americans are largely first- or second-generation immigrants, and immigrants are by definition a self-selected group. They are the ones who have been willing and able—or whose parents have been willing and able—to take the often risky journey to start a new life in a foreign land. Immigrants are often well-educated. Asian-Americans have in fact been a uniquely hyper-selective migrant group. The share of well-educated Asian immigrants is in fact higher than the American population average. This alone is likely to influence outcomes, since there is a clear connection between parental education and the education achievement of their children.
>the conclusion seems clear: Asian-Americans live near better schools. This explanation for higher achievement is of course a rather boring one, compared to appeals to culture. But it suggests that policymakers would do better to promote higher-performing schools than worry too much about promoting “Asian values.”

>>10719161
>Many groups from East Asia and India are doing very well economically. But Cambodians and Hmong are on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder, with very high poverty rates, of 38 percent and 29 percent respectively. Why is this? And is there an explanation of why some Asian groups do so well, while others struggle? According to the “model minority” theory of the case, economic hardship ought not to matter so much. Culture and values are supposed to overwhelm economic conditions.

In our data, we find some suggestive evidence to the contrary. The Asian groups faring poorly are those living in areas with poorer quality schools—similar, in fact, to those in which African Americans live. At the other end of the scale, the Asian groups doing well look to have access to higher performing schools. This finding seems to hold even when we take Asian scores out of our rankings, and for those below the 150 percent of the poverty level:

>Groups like Cambodians and Laotians are faring much worse than their Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and Indian counterparts in the state—in line with their access to better schools. (Note that the Chinese population here includes Taiwanese, who enjoy noticeably above-par access to good schools in the state of California.) These academic performance gaps within the Asian-American population are in fact just as wide as the gaps between white and black Americans.

>Having well-educated parents and a belief in hard work and will serve any child well, regardless of their race or ethnicity. To the extent that some Asian-Americans benefit disproportionately from both, they are likely to do better than others. But the danger is that too much emphasis is placed on these factors, rather than on more straightforward ones more amenable to public policy intervention, like access to good schools. As our former colleague Jonathan Rothwell and others have shown, black children in particular are likely to attend worse K-12 schools.

We have also shown that there are minorities within the Asian minority, and stark differences between them. This should act to further caution us against the adoption of “model minority” simplicities, and in particular, using them to implicitly cast blame on other racial or ethnic minorities for their own economic and social disadvantages.

>>10719161
ill give you the real answer if you promise to develop simple disgust towards stupid people ok? the two people who replied are wasting your time. the reason is because east asians have more complex brain architecture than niggers and whites. thus, they have higher iq’s. that’s it. smarter races do better in high cognitive loading tasks. asians are demonstrably smarter than niggers and spics, its so blatantly obvious that no one who wasn’t worried about being called racist would dispute it. alright have a good day

>>10718098
my solution is to start with the greeks

>>10719182
>>10719189
>>10719206
thx, a lot to read, but some of that stuff seems to try to obfuscate "culture" by pointing instead to factors that are basically outcomes of having that culture

>>10717769
There's a reason that his three hour lecture videos have much, much fewer views than the fan made compilation videos with names like "Peterson BTFO SJWs" and "10 Times Peterson Went Beastmode." His brand is not his philosophy, which is entry level self help. His brand is arguing against people who his base disagrees with, especially when it's talking heads from the media with no real ability to argue logically.

>>10719221
Your argument is that it's culture that motivates Asian parents to locate themselves in districts with better schools. But that ignores the way immigration policies self-select for affluent parents who prefer (and can afford) to select location based on school performance:
http://www.russellsage.org/asian-american-achievement-paradox
>Because immigration policies after 1965 favor individuals with higher levels of education and professional skills, many Asian immigrants are highly educated when they arrive in the United States. They bring a specific “success frame,” which is strictly defined as earning a degree from an elite university and working in a high-status field. This success frame is reinforced in many local Asian communities, which make resources such as college preparation courses and tutoring available to group members, including their low-income members.

The Confucian culture you're referring to should also be true for Cambodians, Hmong and other less affluent Asian-Americans. Confucius also doesn't explain similarly high performances among Indian-Americans.

>>10719243
Cambodians literally shot their elites, poo-in-loo culture may also be good, no idea

>>10719257
>cultural revolution? what's that?

>>10719257
cambodia isn't influenced by confucianism u fucktard, it's influenced by india

>>10719269
there were more chinks so it would be harder to be as exhaustive about the killing people with glasses

>>10719277
so? just because chink culture is good doesn't mean poo-in-loo culture can't be good as well

>>10719289
>>10719279
jokes on you. i just want the thread to max out

IMHO, I'd rather have him babysitting dysfunctional teens than leave them to be recruited and brainwashed by communists or fascists.

>>10719325
what about your dishonest opinion though

>>10719354
imho the h stands for humble not honest u normie faggot

>>10719367
k so your arrogant opinion you unnecessary h having dick

>>10719325
Imho Peterson is an anti-fascist that ended up as a fascist leader unknowlingly. He accidentally started a "cult", it's in quotes because it's more like the fascist march on Rome.

in my humbly honest (i come from peasant stock) opinion, jpb is probably half chinese. you can tell because he's so smart

I wish all Anglos would drop dead at this very moment.

>>10718873
A decent product doesn't need to be artistic. Women fucking gobble up her shitm. There is a huge market in "woke" swag. The new marvel movie about the Black Panther is proof that SJWs are being capitalized on. It's beautiful how the cold, capitalistic market perverts these champagne socialists. They don't even realize it.

>>10717756
It’s not Paul Krugman predicting a right wing republican coup in 2005 with dubya as mastermind, not the fact that we have literal chinese american “history” degrees that signals the end. Nor is it the fact that our students leave high school knowing every minor detail about women’s rights in 19th century America, but unable to name three delegates to the constitutional convention.

It’s some guy preaching basic moral advice that signals the end. You’re surely not a buttblasted partisan

>>10717742
>Do American and Canadian males (his main audience), and I would add the anglo-centric world as a whole, not have proper father figures? It seems like most of his followers are experiencing their missed father-son relationship through Peterson

I myself am following him in part because I didn't have the greatest father, and it feels quite good to have someone to look up to, especially when he seems to understand your struggles and give actual useful advice to better yourself.

Also, with the radical left, constantly attacking masculinity and the symbolic figures and principles that come with it, Whatever we do, we're the root of all evil (especially if we're white). A guy like this, telling men they can do some good in this world is a breath of fresh air.

What he says may not be new, but it's worth reminding to those who, like me and many others, are kinda lost with their lives.

>no charisma
He's actually one of the most charismatic people I've ever seen and listened to. Don't be a hater.

>>10717771
Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, No problem with that, doesn't make trans people less human and lots of them just accept it wilfully. So technically, it could be sumed up as "mentaly unsound", even if I saw the video that made him famous and I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, just that he wouldn't use people's self assigned pronouns if he wanted to help them.

>>10719410
you know peterson is half-chinese, right? he wouldn't even die if you got your wish (be careful what you wish for anonanon!)

>>10718401
>Saying maybe we should put more minorities on TV so they actually, you know, feel like they're part of society?
You'd first have to explain why it's desirable to make foreigners feel included in your society

If I post, this thread will die faster

>>10719454

a) They're not foreign, they were born in Britain.
b) Because society should reflect the people who live in it.

>>10719474
>a) They're not foreign, they were born in Britain.
The soil you were born on doesn't determine your identity
>b) Because society should reflect the people who live in it.
These people aren't a significant part of society and the majority of people don't want them to be a part of society so they have no right to have representation

>>10719483

>The soil you were born on doesn't determine your identity

True, but it does determine your nationality.

>These people aren't a significant part of society and the majority of people don't want them to be a part of society so they have no right to have representation

According to who? You and your racist midwit m8s who most people hate?

>>10719506
>True, but it does determine your nationality.
No it doesn't it determines your citizenship which is entirely meaningless because anyone can be British if they want to

>According to who? You and your racist midwit m8s who most people hate?
According to every survey on immigration for the past 50 years

>>10719525

>because anyone can be British if they want to

Yeah, they can. And no, its not meaningless, it means you're a participant in our civil society. What you mean is its meaningless because people you don't like get to join in.

>According to every survey on immigration for the past 50 years

I thought not wanting immigration had nothing to do with race :) Furthermore, the reason for that is because the right wing media blames basically everything on them to protect the capitalist class.

>>10719474
>Because society should reflect the people who live in it.
I agree, but this should be done primarily by having those people reflect into each other, not by creating a mishmash 'representative government' made up of various segregated factions which are unable to communicate with each other and making bad compromises that no one is happy with.

>>10719543

>not by creating a mishmash 'representative government' made up of various segregated factions which are unable to communicate with each other and making bad compromises that no one is happy with.

But that doesn't happen. Labour have a diverse membership and they're all united. The only worrying thing is the anti-semitism some of them exhibit, but that's a fringe minority. The only people in Labour causing trouble are the Blairite turncoats.

>>10719541
>Yeah, they can. And no, its not meaningless, it means you're a participant in our civil society. What you mean is its meaningless because people you don't like get to join in.
If anyone can be a part of a group by definition it's meaningless because it evidently stands for nothing

>I thought not wanting immigration had nothing to do with race :)
It doesn't sweetie we don't want foreign whites being a part of this society either.

>Furthermore, the reason for that is because the right wing media blames basically everything on them to protect the capitalist class.
The capitalist class is in favour of immigration

>>10719570

>If anyone can be a part of a group by definition it's meaningless because it evidently stands for nothing

No it isn't. Its the fact people choose to be part of the group that means something. You just pulled that definition right out your arse.

>It doesn't sweetie we don't want foreign whites being a part of this society either.
>implying you can't be racist to whites

Peak midwit.

>The capitalist class is in favour of immigration

Not all of them. Depends on the type. Neo-liberals want them here to exploit their labour, right wing idiots like Farage and Murdoch hate them because "muh traditions".

>>10718401
>Saying maybe we should put more minorities on TV so they actually, you know, feel like they're part of society?

Race and gender don't mean shit about who you are as a complex and living individual. You can be compared to other people in much more interesting ways. Saying you're left out because you sum yourself up to your race/gender and it's the most important thing that has to appear on screen for you to feel represented is just sad and dangerous.

Also, TV isn't worth watching anyway.

>>10719604

>Race and gender don't mean shit about who you are as a complex and living individual

I mean they clearly do mean something. But no-one is saying that's all it is, as I said before, class, weight, disability, connections: these all define people as well.

>>10719434
>Also, with the radical left, constantly attacking masculinity
>(especially if we're white)
Comrade, you're attacking a strawman.

>>10719601
>No it isn't. Its the fact people choose to be part of the group that means something. You just pulled that definition right out your arse.
This is clearly drivel the whole point of groups and categories is that they're exclusionary. A group ceases to be a group when there's no way of distinguishing it from another.

>>implying you can't be racist to whites
According to your ilk they can't.

>Farage
The person that advocates for more colonial migration over European migration and a 1 in 1 out policy?

>>10719638

>This is clearly drivel the whole point of groups and categories is that they're exclusionary

No it isn't. The purpose of a group is commonality, and the British "group" have belonging to same nation in common.

>According to your ilk they can't.

What ilk. Of course you can be racist against other whites, slavic people have been on the receiving end of racism many times.

>The person that advocates for more colonial migration over European migration and a 1 in 1 out policy?

Nah, the person who uses images of refugees fleeing war framing them as invaders to scare people into voting Brexit.

>>10719555
Maybe if your focus is on economic questions it isn't a problem, but the larger cultural implications are there. Having designated representatives of varying minorities, which is to say, playing identity politics, is retarded because having people pretend to represent anything but themselves turns politics into a game of shadows. Trying to become a representative generally leads you to develop a fragmentary mindset, where you only have one part of the world mentally mapped out, and everything else appears insignificant to you because of it.

It's like the system we have in Germany, where communes get a certain annual budget to do maintenance, but if they don't spend it it is reduced in coming years, which causes them to inflate their expenses to everyone's detriment. The sensible solution to dealing with cultural diversity isn't allowing representatives of all groups to make demands, but to have a broader cultural dialogue and establish a solution which is mutually beneficial (but requires all sides to reflect on the problems which exist in their own culture).

For instance, you talk about giving minorities a place in TV. You think that's as easy as just casting minority actors? Because to make it work you (by which I mean you, as a society) would first need to establish a common understanding of your respective group-identities and non-identities, and, more broadly, the place of the individual within your society. as long as you refuse to do that you're limited to creating PC propaganda, because anything else is deemed inappropriate. You need a basis of mutual trust to create a landscape where you can actually make offensive, critical art/entertainment about anyone.

TL;DR Representation isn't a substitute for interpersonal engagement between individuals of different creeds.

>>10719672
>No it isn't. The purpose of a group is commonality, and the British "group" have belonging to same nation in common.
Why do you keep saying things which are patently untrue? Commonality can exist between things that apart of different groups hence why your definition is complete rubbish

>Nah, the person who uses images of refugees fleeing war framing them as invaders to scare people into voting Brexit.
>invasion
>an occasion when a large number of people or things come to a place in an annoying and unwanted way

>>10719615
The way I like to see it is that the way you work around and through them means a lot more about who you are than just the fact that you're born this way and that's all, and I think this goes way further than the elements you listed, since this kind of struggle is quite universal considering that we pretty much all have traits that don't always match neetly with society in a general way.

>>10719622
Yeah well maybe that's just the medias I watch, but some people really look like that strawman (hell I even have one of these in my current friend circle, and one in my very family, and I live in France, where the situation hasn't escalated as high as in North America), but I'm sure you already heard of SJWs and such. I'll agree I maybe got carried away on this one though. Thanks for pointing that hypothetical strawman out anyway, I'll try to be sharper in my speech next time.

>>10719506
According to all surveys of public opinion in all European countries, forever. Immigration isn’t popular

>>10718101
if they do so, then their mothers will be left in utter despair where they will see their 35+ yo sons without jobs/wives and any meaning in life just rot and play video games which will end their family line. This is what happens when women try to become men - they fail at it miserably and you can see their results of failure in their offspring. Women cannot raise men successfully. It only takes another man to raise a man. Sometimes this man is a grandfather, or uncle, or stepfather (assuming father is lacking or is weak) or perhaps even an older brother or an older male friend. Woman can never raise a proper man. This is why single mothers are so destructive to societies and are factory hogs of crime and failure in any country.

Peterson may not be the solution to all the problems, especially with his radical individualism, however, he does have some points that people extract value from. Yes, some of the stuff is very basic, but unfortunately in this society built on lies and partial truths, his teachings stand out as a guiding light for men to become men and finally get their lives together and shake off bullshit that was lied to them from the early age. We are living in a crisis of masculinity, crisis of true manhood and brotherhood which has been under severe process of eradication for several decades now.
>inb4 Peterson shill
I am not buying his $2000 rug or his personality tests, but some things he says make a lot of sense.

inb4 archive