/lit/ - Literature

>>10660416
Bump

Already did, not sure if it's as deep as it appears, it's certainly more textural. 5HC had more to chew on.

>>10660416
I want to but I should read Fifth Head of Cerberus first. Plus I don't actually own a copy of Book of the New Sun yet so it must wait along with all the other books I'd like to read but don't own, anon. I could succumb to an e-reader but I'm not convinced I would use it anywhere near as much as I should.

i did, theres a problem though

>>10660416
The main thing that interests me about is how everyone who loves it claims there's almost hidden meaning with everything. It sounds like a puzzle that needs solving to me and that sounds really appealing.

>>10660555
I think they've had these things called libraries for a few thousand years now. I don't know, maybe it's a socialist plot or maybe you just like wasting money.

>>10660676
I've checked both of my local libraries and surprisingly they haven't got Book of the New Sun. I'm best off just getting it from Amazon when I next get paid.

>>10660710
They should be able to send out for a copy from anywhere within the regional system. They ought have website where you can search for what you are looking for, place hold, and keep track of said material as it wends its way to your local library. Next time you stop in ask about this system.

>>10660726
Will do, thanks anon

>>10660657
There is and isn't. Some puzzles go somewhere and others are either 2deep or a dead end. Some aren't even puzzles. Others are just references and allusions. It just keeps going deeper either way because absolutely everything is intentional and personal interpretations of the intentions aren't a solution on their own.

It certainly transcends the limitations of the genre. I wouldn't claim it to be masterpiece. I would gladly pay to own them in hardcover regardless so that someday a child of mine may pick them up and maybe enjoy them as I did at young age.

>>10660416
"No."

>>10660560
Which is ?

>>10660416

Bump

I dont read genre fiction

>>10660555
I don't know you but I use my reader way more than I read actual books since buying a reader. It's much more comfortable to read anywhere than an actual book.

Just started Sword of the Lictor this morning, oh boy what a ride

>>10660416
bretty boring tbqh desu

>>10660416
Did it and it's my favorite book of all time. I think I reread it about 5 or so times in total, and any more times certain chapters.
I pretty much know everything that happens and at what point by memory.
My favorite scene must the when Severian kills Agilus and Wolve describes it by Several blotting out the sun with his sword It left a big impression on me when I first read it many years ago. Also the only book I own multiple copies of (In multiple languages)

>>10662420
Leave this thread.

>>10660416
Just finished Shadow and Claw. Taking a break to read a couple of novella's before I move onto book III. It really stands alone in its genre since there is no easy comparison - at least in fantasy writing (certainly comparable to Chesterton and Borges).

I'd recommend it based off of what I read so-far. People like to complain about his prose and the allegorical shit but I've enjoyed it so far, but I'm just a pseud so who really knows?

>>10662999
Yeah, first time I read it, I was confused a bit by the narration and the fact that Severian was wandering around instead of going directly to Thrax

>>10660416
i just finished it. its definetly one of my favorite books. it didnt quite end like i expected it would there was no coming of the new sun and the claw of conciliator wasnt really all that thrilling but the other three were really fucking good
>>10662999
which chapter was that? i feel like i need to reread shadow because there's probably a million things i missed that i would pick up on now that ive read the book.
>when little severian dies
this one got me. i really didnt want him to be dead. thats why one of my favorite parts is when severian palms the two headed alien guy's face in and kicks his body out of the statue thats modeled after him.

>>10661431

My severe lack of intelligence

>>10660416
Even if I'm not particularly a fan of fantasy?

>>10666014
oh yeah. it's technically science fiction but read it anyways.

>>10666014
>>10666014
There's no actual "magic" in the Book of the New Sun

>>10666014
It goes over the genre limitations of sf and fantasy

please post more botns pictures
tfw no thecla gf in my head

>>10666014
Gene Wolfe is an example of a writer who genuinely transcends the limitations of genre fiction. He's a very rewarding writer.

>>10666374
>tfw not enough botns memes

>>10665940
It was heartbreaking when Lil severian died

I just finished book I. I liked the prose and world a lot, but it felt very meandering to me, like Sev was just wandering around and bumping into people and having wacky adventures. Does it tie up and feel more focused soon?

>>10666468
>tfw Big Sev kills Typhon 10 pages later

>>10666468
>>10666485
Can you use spoilers? You're ruining the book for anons who haven't read it yet

>>10662420
>I read """""literary""""" fiction instead
Kek, don't kid yourself.

>>10660416
just started sword of the lictor. loving it so far

>>10666477
>Does it tie up and feel more focused soon?
Oh boy, does it. Those random encounters are anything but random.

>>10666487

Two things I didn't understand fully. One, Severian says several times that he didn't fuck Thecla but then admits he did at a later time, was that in reference to the fake Thecla? And what exactly is Severian's relationship to Dorcas and that hotel owner?

>>10666586
>And what exactly is Severian's relationship to Dorcas and that hotel owner?
My memory is hazy, but Dorcas is initially dead and buried in the lake. We meet her widowed husband fishing for her as Severian and Agia arrive (he calles her "Cas"). When Severian falls into the water, he accidentally touches Dorcas's hand and resurrects her. The hotel owner is literally Dorcas's son, who doesn't realise she's been brought back to life.

>>10666586
He's a liar, you fuck. If you need someone to explain that I'm surprised you made it through the book at all.

>>10666732

>>10666732
How about I choke you out, reddit bitch? You don't understand the narration at all, and in fact Severian only contradicts himself a miniscule handful of times. He does not lie. He omits. You've picked up that he's an "unreliable narrator" from reddit and taken that to mean that he's a liar like the rest of the idiots. You are nothing. Gene Wolfe is beyond your ken and you did not understand the slightest sliver of the book, scum. Get the fuck out and never return.

>>10666753
This. Severian is "unreliable" in the sense that he had a sheltered upbringing, and doesn't always appreciate what's going on.

>>10666374

>>10660416
Bumperino

Just finished Long sun, is Short sun worth reading?

>>10660416
>Catholic fantasy books

I'll pass, thanks.

>>10667747
Yeah, it explains a lot the universe of Urth

>>10667756
It is much more than just a genre book. And the book isn't religious propaganda at all.

>>10667765
I'll give it a shot, but only because you responded so civilly.

>>10666810
I did not visualized it like this while reading BOTNS

>>10667772
You're welcome. I hope you will enjoy it

>>10666810
hnnnnnng this is great and actually pretty close to my imagination. Is there any more GOAT BOTNS art? I never am able to find much

>>10668615
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4d692

>>10666477
>it felt very meandering to me, like Sev was just wandering around and bumping into people and having wacky adventures
That's pretty much what the whole series is until about halfway through the last book. But it's still amazing.

What are your favourite BotNS moments? I don't have a single one, but the botanical gardens are certainly up there. That whole sequence was great - and then the lake of birds in the garden of endless sleep...

>>10669842
my first reading & sev's retelling of thecla's story made me so uncomfortable
I roved it

>>10666810
what the hell, i pictured a small ass medieval tower with a wall around it.

>>10660416
Is it necessary to read urth of the new sun? I lost my copy.

>>10666586
I thought the Thecla discrepancy is because by the time he was writing it he had already had her mind in his so it was a conflict of her modesty and him wanting to show he's virile and brag

>>10670199
Yeah same. A shitty fort with a disc on it's crappy tower

>>10669842
His stand off in the house after he comes down the mountain

>>10670199
Yeah, the tower is like 5 stories max and made of stone in the book.

>>10669842
I loved the extended trek through the forest with the alzabo and the zoanthropes. The play was great as well. Really everything that happens is great on multiple levels. Sometimes I would put the book down for a few minutes and stare off into space thinking about what I had just read, and come back and read it a few more times because it was so fascinating.

>>10668615
I found this on youtube a few days ago. Really makes me wish we had a good screen adaptation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqZI0CHOeEI

>>10670467
an animated tetralogy could be really cool

>>10660416
Bump

>>10670285
Read the book of the new sun first

>>10669842
There are so many great parts that I'm feeling the urge to give the books another well-deserved read. Among my favourites are the confrontation with the alzabo, the meeting with Typhon, the storytelling competition at the Pelerines camp, the mirrors of Father Inire... also the whole final climax in Urth of the New Sun. Pretty good stuff.

>>10671595
The typhon part is epic

posting more BotNS memes

>>10671872
Good post more :)

>>10669842

There's a bunch and undoubtedly some I forget.

Shadow of the Torturer:
- Severian in the Mausoleum
- The Botanical Gardens

Claw of the Conciliator
- The Mines
- Severian wrestling with Apu Punchau

Sword of the Lictor
- Cyriaca's story of the past
- The Cosmic horror scenes as he climbs the mountain and looks at the stars
- Obviously Typhon
- The scene with Ash

Citadel of the Autarch
- The sequence with the Aquastors and the revelation on the beach
- Master Gurloes' story of the life cycle of the universe
- When Severian goes to see Dorcas and visits his father
- The entire homecoming sequence

“What struck me on the beach–and it struck me indeed, so that I staggered as at a blow–was that if the Eternal Principle had rested in that curved thorn I had carried about my neck across so many leagues, and if it now rested in the new thorn (perhaps the same thorn) I had only now put there, then it might rest in everything, in every thorn in every bush, in every drop of water in the sea. The thorn was a sacred Claw because all thorns were sacred Claws; the sand in my boots was sacred sand because it came from a beach of sacred sand. The cenobites treasured up the relics of the sannyasins because the sannyasins had approached the Pancreator. But everything had approached and even touched the Pancreator, because everything had dropped from his hand. Everything was a relic. All the world was a relic. I drew off my boots, that had traveled with me so far, and threw them into the waves that I might not walk shod on holy ground.”

>>10670467
I feel like something would be lost in any cinematic version because it would no longer be like reading a memoir and instead seem like watching the events as they unfold. Even if it was framed as a retelling I think it wouldn't work

>>10672496
Maybe with a narrator voice ?

>>10660416
Bump

>>10666780
Yep, and also I feel like Severian is also not very smart. He likes to portray himself as rational and levelheaded but there's a lot of things that completely go over his head and he's sorta dumb sometimes. Part of his upbringing I guess, and his hyperthymesia.

>>10669842
One of the best parts HAS to be in Claw of the Conciliator, after Severian and Jonas kill their captors and bump into Vodalus' party all badass, atop of the beast, with its rider decapitated. Then the beast kneels and Severian steps down, and Vodalus is like "I sent those men to bring me the headsman" and Severian replies with "Well, they brought you the anti-headsman".

>>10665940
>which chapter was that?
Chapter 31, near the beginning:

"When it was over, the soldiers forced him to his knees and I lifted my sword, forever blotting out the sun."

Man this left a strong impression on me. Glad it happened so early in the book, got a sense of what was coming.

>>10666477
There's enough to suggest that those random encounters and wacky adventures are orchestrated by higher powers that wish to set the world back right and give birth to a better world in which those higher powers exist

Bump

>>10673384

Just let the fucking thread die if it can't sustain itself. No thread would need to be bumped 6 times if it was worth keeping.

>>10672478
>- The Cosmic horror scenes as he climbs the mountain and looks at the stars

Oh yes. So good.

>>10673400
I have to shill botns

>>10670356
Perhaps from Sev’s POV it is shitty looking, but to us it looks fantastical and futuristic. desu it’s one of the reasons I became so attached to the series.

>>10667765
>the book isn't religious propaganda at all
it's not propaganda, but is definitely *about* religion

>>10673400
>hhuurrr if thread's not jbp meme bait it shouldn't exist
Fuck off. Slow /lit/ best /lit/.

>>10660416
just exactly how inaccessible is it?
I always hear people raving about gene wolf here

>>10669842
In the third book, when he's lying on top of a mountain at night and imagines gravity reversing and falling into the sky

>>10674185
It’s not inaccessible, Wolfe uses a lot of weird words but they’re fairly easy to figure out or you can look them up.

>>10673138
he's not stupid at all, he was obviously very intelligent yet ignorant of the world
autarch Severian should be one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable people in his world

>>10673451
i feel like you really are a shill though

>>10674185
Yeah, if you can read Tolkien, you can read Wolfe

>>10676814
I may or may not be the one behind the botns shilling on this board ;)

>>10674185
IQ floor of 110

>>10677110
>that listed IQ floor
>those digits

>>10677110
holy numbers

>>10677157
Devil is at work

Le bumpe

>>10674185
Lexicon Urthus

How many times do you think Severian got raped by the other torturers when he was a kid?

How does Wolfe compare to, say, Mervyn Peake and Eric Eddison?

>>10677782
somewhat like the latter, less so like the former
more like borges then either imho

>>10677713
4

>>10660416
>>10660416
How do I start with Wolfe, lads? Can I jump straight into BotNS or do I have to read something else first? For the record, I loved Borges, Clark Ashton Smith, Lem and tolerated PKD's writing for the ideas.

>>10677936
i myself have only read BotNS. i mean to read long and short sun as well, but haven't gotten around to it yet

>>10677936
yeah just start nigga
or 5HC if you think it's too daunting

>>10677936
Jumping straight into it is fine

Started in December, actually.

I love Wolfe. He doesn't spoon feed you, but there's so much that you get to discover once you figure things out. Amazing writer.

>>10660416
Really liking new sun so far. When I finish should I read Urth of the new sun? What about Long sun or Short sun? My library also had the wizard knight, is that one any good?

>>10678912
Yes. Yes. And yes.

meh, Pat Rothfuss does the unreliable narrator schtick better. More potent tropes as well. Bring on the Book Three!

>>10672478
>man ponders the starry sky
>cosmic horror

I
hate
millenials

>>10672478
>What struck me on the beach–and it struck me indeed, so that I staggered as at a blow–was that if the Eternal Principle had rested in that curved thorn I had carried about my neck across so many leagues, and if it now rested in the new thorn (perhaps the same thorn) I had only now put there, then it might rest in everything, in every thorn in every bush, in every drop of water in the sea. The thorn was a sacred Claw because all thorns were sacred Claws; the sand in my boots was sacred sand because it came from a beach of sacred sand. The cenobites treasured up the relics of the sannyasins because the sannyasins had approached the Pancreator. But everything had approached and even touched the Pancreator, because everything had dropped from his hand. Everything was a relic. All the world was a relic. I drew off my boots, that had traveled with me so far, and threw them into the waves that I might not walk shod on holy ground.

Didn't know Grandpa Gene was a hippie.

>>10678961
>Pat Rothfuss

Forget about the book three mate. He's just like grrm with his sixth book.