/lit/ - Literature

>>10358932
Based Fat Catholic Man bringing the bantz.

>>10358932
DESTROYED

1st for the British were cucked by God

Isn't it treason for a Briton to speak well of Joan of Arc? Why wasn't he hanged for this?

Joan of Arc never actually fought, but I like where he's going

>>10359012
better for a catholic to be a traitor to one's proddy country than speak ill of a catholic saint and martyr

>>10358972
Yet I recall the French betraying God a few times after.

Why are English Catholics so based?

>>10359307
They had to fight for it

>>10359026
britain blows anyways

>>10359307
>mfw

>>10358932
What books is this from?

>>10358932
wtf all of this can perfectly be said of any soldier in any war from a poor family wtf there are like hundreds of millions of people that fit this everything he said i can't even wtf is this shit this is pure shit jeanne d'arc has nothing to do with tolstoy or nietzsche she's a mythologized french heroin they're a novelist and a philosopher wtf is this guy on about i what

>>10360061
This:
>Jean D'arc mostly fictive
>Tolstoy and Nietzsche are unrelated to her
>Chesterson was a cuck like all other brits
Read Evola, he's the full alpha package

>>10360061
So you're saying that the average man is better then Tolstoy and Nietzsche?

>>10360113
no i merely reductiod that bitch to the absurdum where he belongs

>>10360110
fuck you did i ask for reading advice motherfucker

>>10360061
I think Chesterton would say in response to that that you're correct. The average soldier IS better than Tolstoy or Nietzsche, because the average soldier has to confront and live through the things that Tolstoy and Nietzsche could only assume and conjure. And I don't see that as a glorification of military service. I see it as an acknowledgment that ultimately Tolstoy and Nietzsche are only playing pretend. Their ideas are powerful and potent, but those ideas spring from hypotheticals, not things either man actually experienced. Thus, for Chesterton, the lived experience of real soldiers surpasses their ideas.

>>10360579
Nietzsche served as a hospital attendant during the fucking Franco-Prussian war, at the siege of Metz, where he got diptheria and dysentery. The worst thing about Anglo-Catholic writers - especially converts - is their unwarranted pride and cruel contempt for people sincerely searching for truth outside of their little playpen of consolation, the Church. You're simply a deluded demoniac - Aquinas has all the answers moite! Muh common sense! Haww haww *stuffs fat fingers into mouth to lick sugar off*

>>10360859
what is it with philosophers becoming hospital attendants?

>>10358932
>Nietzsche, for all we know, was afraid of a cow.
FAKE NEWS

>>10360859
10/10 post

The rest of the passage is good too:

"Nietzsche had some natural talent for sarcasm: he could sneer, though he could not laugh; but there is always something bodiless and without weight in his satire, simply because it has not any mass of common morality behind it. He is himself more preposterous than anything he denounces. But, indeed, Nietzsche will stand very well as the type of the whole of this failure of abstract violence. The softening of the brain which ultimately overtook him was not a physical accident. If Nietzsche had not ended in imbecility, Nietzscheism would end in imbecility. Thinking in isolation and with pride ends in being an idiot. Every man who will not have softening of the heart must at last have softening of the brain.

This last attempt to evade intellectualism ends in intellectualism, and therefore in death. The sortie has failed. The wild worship of lawlessness and the materialist worship of law end in the same void. Nietzsche scales staggering mountains, but he turns up ultimately in Tibet. He sits down beside Tolstoy in the land of nothing and Nirvana. They are both helpless—one because he must not grasp anything, and the other because he must not let go of anything. The Tolstoyan’s will is frozen by a Buddhist instinct that all special actions are evil. But the Nietzscheite’s will is quite equally frozen by his view that all special actions are good; for if all special actions are good, none of them are special. They stand at the crossroads, and one hates all the roads and the other likes all the roads. The result is—well, some things are not hard to calculate. They stand at the cross-roads."

>>10359012
Protip, Winston Churchill was a Francophile and a Napoleon apologist.
>I always hate to compare Napoleon with Hitler, as it seems an insult to the great Emperor and warrior to connect him in any way with a squalid caucus boss and butcher.

>>10360896
Any other quotes from asspained slave-moralists?

>>10360896
>The softening of the brain which ultimately overtook him was not a physical accident. If Nietzsche had not ended in imbecility, Nietzscheism would end in imbecility. Thinking in isolation and with pride ends in being an idiot. Every man who will not have softening of the heart must at last have softening of the brain.

>>10360898
Churchill might have been trying to stroke the French cock there a bit, since he said it in 1944. Privately he didn't underestimate Hitler's ability as a statesman. Not to say anything about comparisons between Napoleon and Hitler. Probably some truth to what Churchill says but don't equate it with a real disregard for Hitler - One of Churchill's advantages over other men was not caricaturing Hitler.

>>10360896
>but there is always something bodiless and without weight in his satire, simply because it has not any mass of common morality behind it

>>10360905
>>10360920

>>10360928
I just wanted some quotes, Anon.

>>10360896
Brainlet here. Is he saying that Nietzsche is wrong because, according to Nietzsche, a person should choose their own morality but since a person should choose it, it is not morality?

>>10360896
Wow Chesterton is just a lot of empty rhetoric

>>10360859
Perhaps the converts are so proud because they've done all the "sincere searching" that you glorify so highly, and that's precisely what's led them to be Catholics? By your logic, what does Nietzsche do that Chesterton didn't also do?

>>10361019
Basically. Everything can't be special, obviously.

It's a damn shame Chesterton never wrote anything addressing Kierkegaard. Their views on paradox seem so opposite, yet so fundamental to their ideology, I'd have loved to see Chesterton's take.

>>10360061
this

>>10361023
and empty calories

This is, like, 90% taking the piss at Shaw, right?

>>10360896
>He is himself more preposterous than anything he denounces.
holy shit

this explains EXACTLY how I feel about NEETzche

thanks for this

>>10361036
Alright. So if it is wrong that nothing is special and it is wrong that everything is special then some things are special. What is special?

>>10361076
Its amazing how that simple sentence sums so much up

>>10361112
That's a much more complicated question that needs a lot more than a paragraph shooting down nihilism.

>>10361114
yeah I always felt that there was something that always goes unmentioned with regards to him but this about sums it all up

>>10361028
Buddy that just shook my head marbles. I never considered the search for truth ending at Catholic. It always seems like all truth seeking start there and leads away

>>10361123
Why does that have to be complicated? The special things seem pretty simple. Things like going out for dinner with friends or reading a good adventure book.

Fuck Chesteron, the obese windbag. He's such a fat, pompous, self-satisfied little twerp.

I have nothing against Joan of Arc, I just hate this lardass

>>10361028
I understand that. At the same time, I think in many cases it's an intellectual half-measure, understandably. Maybe that's my projection. Catholicism is a wide gate, with a narrow path. People desperate enough to walk through the gate, and cunning enough to find the path and actually navigate it naturally gain a little pride, even a little well-trimmed chauvinism. In the spirit of Chesterton, it's a bit of a paradox; it's both obvious and obscure - and these twin elements aren't discordant, but instead harmoniously heighten the pleasure of being a Catholic. A smirk knowingness gazes out at the wandering, blind babes who still haven't found their way to the suckling teat of Mother Church. If ever I have fear and trembling, tis not for them, but for mine own self.

>>10360896
not content with being soft merely in the heart and the head, chesterton took a double serving of softness in the belly

>>10360859
good post

>>10361226
t. George Bernard Shaw

BASED fat catholic man, atheists BTFO!!

*tips rosary*

>>10361231
Well I suppose that's almost an inevitable reaction. But I think a genuine Catholic faith calls one beyond that chauvinism. The lives of the saints speak to the idea that one can take that security of being in the Church and make a continuous pilgrimage of it, striving to strip away the sinful aspects of one's self so as to arrive at the image of Christ embodied in one's own being, which everyone is capable of but so few, it seems, achieve. One is driven to be more like Christ through their awe and wonder and love for Christ, and I do think Chesterton does a pretty good job, on occasion, capturing at least the awe and wonder. There are a few good instances of it in his essays in "Heretics" which I found very moving. His writings on the saints are also good for this stuff, for perhaps the same reason.

>>10360579
Tolstoy and Nietzsche are not "playing pretend" they lived life and had problems that transcended simple class barriers. You should read 'Confession', because there Tolstoy talks about the problem he had.

>>10360110
evola is for massive fedoralords

>"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."
tell me how Chesterton wasn't the black science man of the early 20th century

>>10361278
Transcending contemporary politics is the first step any serious thinker has to take.

>>10361259
Nah man, Shaw and Chesterton were friends. They vehemently disagreed about almost everything, but they liked each other quite a lot.

>>10361278
Are you kidding? That's a great line. Chesterton's humor is fantastic.

>>10361294
it's a reddit-tier line

>>10361278
that's a cute observation tbqh

>>10361052
Their views are quite complementary
http://www.academia.edu/30267605/Christianity_s_Paradox_Chesterton_after_Kierkegaard

there's something pathetic about this pompous, upper-middle class fat man who lived a life of nothing but comfort lecturing people who were truly conflicted and searching for meaning

>>10361267
You're right, I was hyper-general, and I feel even a little guilty for having moved you to this sincere defence. I started off referring to "Anglo-Catholic" literature, but coming back to this phrase seems like I'm implying a racial or cultural fatalism. I'm not - it's more of a bad habit. I like Chesterton's descriptions. He's also prone to a little hysteria, see 'the demoniac'. I guess when it hits it's flamboyant, effective drama and spectacle, and when it doesn't it seems overwrought.

Who would win? Actual thinkers vs one epileptic teenager

>>10358942
>Based Fat Catholic Man bringing the bantz
>>10360859
>stuffs fat fingers into mouth to lick sugar off
>>10361226
>the obese windbag. He's such a fat, pompous, self-satisfied little twerp
>>10361226
>I just hate this lardass
>>10361333
>this pompous, upper-middle class fat man who lived a life of nothing but comfort

Enough, quit calling Thomas Aquinas fat.
>DURR HURR FAT TOM
>THERE GOES FATTY FAT FAT TOMMY AQUINAS
We Catholics get it. Yes, Thomas Aquinas was morbidly, disgustingly obese-- it might even be fair to say he was grotesquely obese. That does NOT mean that his mind wasn't as TRIM as can be. Cut it out with the DURR FAT THOMAS AQUINAS jokes. In the History of Catholicism, I can say, as a Catholic, he is the greatest MIND in the history of the world. He's not called Doctor Angelicus for nothing. Seriously, crack open the Summa. Try calling him FAT TOM after get a load of his LITHE genius. Call him FAT TOM one more time. DURR. Ugh.

>>10359307
If you beat iron enough it becomes steel

>>10360896
>He is himself more preposterous than anything he denounces.
How ironic for GKC to point his plump frankfurter of a finger for this reason at something other than a mirror.

>>10361267
>be Francis
>I'VE EATEN MEAT! EVERYONE LOOK AT ME!
>I'VE BEEN SUCH A BAD BOY!
>A FILTHY ANIMAL!
>I DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED IN FRONT OF EVERYONE!
>LET ME TAKE OFF MY ROBE, NOW HERE, PUT THIS ROPE AROUND MY NECK AND LEAD ME THROUGH THE CITY LIKE THE ANIMAL I AM!
>FILL A CUP WITH ASHES!
>LOOK AT ME EVERYONE! DIRTY FRANCIS!
>YES, NOW POUR THEM ON MY HEAD
>LOOK AT ME, I'M CRYING AS I'M DRAGGED THROUGH THE STREET!
>CRY WITH ME, WRETCH THAT I AM!
>LOOK AT ME!
>"You and all who have left the world after my example and follow the way of life of the brethren consider me a holy man, but before the Lord and you I repent because during this sickness of mine I ate meat and meat drippings."
>NOW RECORD THIS AND USE IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW GREAT I AM!
>become the most revered man in the history of the Latin church

>>10360859
>waaaah I applied band aids and got a disease for being shit at my job
Riveting tale of military heroism.

>>10361520
>it's an Eastern schismatic gets assblasted about St. Francis episode

>>10361583

>this entire thread

>>10361592
jeez that heresy sp00ked me

Another section from Orthodoxy that I love.
>see gif with passage

If we said what we felt, we should say, “So you are the Creator and Redeemer of the world: but what a small world it must be! What a little Heaven you must inhabit, with angels no bigger than butterflies! How sad it must be to be God; and an inadequate God! Is there really no life fuller and no love more marvelous than yours; and is it really in your small and painful pity that all flesh must put its faith? How much happier you would be, how much more of you there would be, if the hammer of a higher God could smash your small cosmos, scattering the stars like spangles, and leave you in the open, free like other men to look up as well as down!”

>>10361178
>friends
>good
That's some spooky shit right there

>>10359307
Catholicism thrives under pressure, dies when at peace with the world.

>>10361491
I'm unable to take fat people seriously, it's the one thing that's truly unforgivable

>>10361606
>how much more of you there would be
lol at the thinly-veiled apology of his gluttonous tendencies

>>10361592
Yes, well, we seem to have finally caught up with the Orthodox in allowing divorce. I hope you're happy.

anyone who's ever been fat is going straight to hell, it says right there in the bible, gluttony is a deadly sin... sorry, "gilbert", long, insufferable tracts just don't make up for it

can you even imagine, heaven: perfect, eternal bliss, occasionally interrupted by the grotesque spectacle of witnessing a human ball of lard dragging its rolls round the pearly gates

there's no way fat people are allowed in heaven, how can you be perfectly happy when under constant exposure to psychological torture?

>>10358932
>>>>a*glo
>>>>c*tholic

i don't think they need to recover from what is akin to a bug bite

>>10358932
>>10360896
Holy shit how will they ever recover

when the fat kid delivers a "scathing witticism" against you at school, everyone still aughs at him

sorry, fattie, you just can't win

>>10360579
dude life is measured in suffering points lmao

>>10360579
*eats enough to feed an entire victorian age proletarian family*
hmm, yes, the life of the average person, which i know so well, is superior to that of these "philosophers"
*salivates at the thought of his next meal, breaks his diet for the second time that day*

>>10361713
That's literally catholic philosophy.

>>10361720
*eats another cake*
So, as I was saying *burps* sobriety *farts* and temperance are clearly *burps* the way to go. Where's the pudding, dear?

>>10361721
catholics? retarded? more likely than you may at first think

>Chesterton was a large man, weighing around 20 stone 6 pounds (130 kg; 286 lb)
lmfao, imagine this guy scoffing at you for not going to church on sunday

>Chesterton allegedly converted to Roman Catholicism after having attended a Catholic mass and confirming that the servings of bread and wine during communion were more substantial[7]
huh... really makes you think...

>>10361728
4chan catholics are on the level of chritian fundamentalists in the american south.

>>10361508
great post & prose

>>10358932
>We know that she was not afraid of an army, while Nietzsche, for all we know, was afraid of a cow.

lol NEETchlets BTFO. Going to start posting cows in Nietzsche threads

>>10360579
Tolstoy was a soldier tho. He fought the turks in the 1850's.

>>10361583
It's a legitimate thing to be concerned about. I won't judge the state of the man's soul -- I can't know such a thing -- but I don't think that episodes such as that serve as a good example for others. They seem more likely to lead to pride more than humility.
>Mt. 6:5-6 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

>>10361729
truly an imposing figure...it's ok to admit you're scared anon

>>10361746
Fundies are actually religious though and not just in it for the aesthetics.

>>10361274
He was also a pretty old man before he found his truth. Joan was like 19 when she died.

>>10361023
No, he's just the most brilliant master of paradox in English. His keen mind has been ignored for too long, mostly because he exposes the pompous emptiness of people's favorite "intellectuals".

>>10361941
chesterton is nothing but pompous emptiness

>>10361990
*pumped emptiness

>>10360896
The softening of the brain which ultimately overtook him was not a physical accident. If Nietzsche had not ended in imbecility, Nietzscheism would end in imbecility.
I'm dying.

>>10361740
Delete this

Isn't Chesterton meant to be one of, if not the, greatest writers of the 20th century? What's with the hate ITT?

>>10361768
I'll start posting salads in Chesterton threads.

>>10361740
Kek

>>10362100
Triggered Nietzscheboos

>>10362100
He was called "a master without a masterpiece", he had great style but wrote some really banal stuff, like that detective series about a priest.

I read Orthodoxy recently, and it's a huge rambling, scatterbrained stream of consciousness. Poetic, but I don't understand how I'm meant to be convinced by anything he says when it's pure rhetoric without a single argument.

>Logical people just think in circles because I said so, Christianity is better because the symbol is a cross [rambles about some geometry metaphor]

>>10362135
I haven't read much of his work, just TMWWT. I really liked that though. Maybe there wasn't much substance to it, but the Aharchy/Order comparisons to a train travelling to stations, at the start of the book, was great.

>>10362135
What's a good starting point with him?

>>10361768
cows are a positive symbol in nietzsches philosophy so jokes on you

>>10360859
best post in thread

>>10362135
>but I don't understand how I'm meant to be convinced by anything he says when it's pure rhetoric without a single argument.
So, basically, the book is the same as 4chan christians?

>>10361306
>if I just label something as ‘reddit’ maybe I won’t have to actually defend my position
You’ve been on 4chan too long bud, maybe go outside for a while?

>>10362207
The Man who was Thursday, undoubtedly. Although my personal favorite is Until We Have Faces.

>>10360061
/thread

>>10361606
I don't understand what he is talking about?

>>10361704
I thought it was about the soul instead of the body

>>10362800
Man is finite, and by setting his own values, restricts them also to the finite.

>>10360896
This is absolute nonsense though. Every single sentence is missing the mark.

>>10362877
Alright but if man is finite and his experience of existence is bound by the limits of himself, how can he understand values outside of himself whether or not they do exist? Man will only ever be able to understand what he is capable of understanding and nothing more, so why not create his own value system. Unless what Chesterton us saying is that a self-created value system can be negotiated with and is therefore not a value system

>>10362961
Honestly, I think the only philosopher who really profoundly confronted this is Kierkegaard. You have to fix yourself in position to the absolute so that your purposes align with something greater than the finite.

>>10362973
I'll admit that I have never spent much time pondering the absolute. This seems to trigger a few different thoughts. I remember Peterson talking about how the bible is a compilation of trials on how to manage a societies with the conclusion being the 10 commandments. So would it be accurate to say that mythologies, as representing multigenerational cultural truths, were discovered in a quasi scientific method and are akin to natural laws and that mythologies hold the absolute truths of man, within himself and the world, that exist outside of an individual's finiteness?

I had my sexual awakening to Joan of Arc. Burning at the stake turns me on to this day.

>>10363078
I think it's hard to reconcile a secular worldview with either Chesterton or Kierkegaard. Secularism tends to have little room for paradox, while Kierkegaard explicitly called for reliance on the strength of the absurd. Chesterton's has an entire section in Orthodoxy on miracles and their importance. You could reach a point of understanding their worldview, but without willingly embracing the contradictory as Truth, it's hard to fold it into your own.

>>10363095
So to understand the absolute I would have to understand the contradictory truths of man. I guess I'll need to spend some time studying Kierkegaard and Chesterton on these points. Thank you for your explanations.

>>10362100
>Chesterton
>greatest writers of the 20th century
lmfao, no

>>10362377
the line is a not remotely insightful and completely banal platitude dripping with chesterton's trademark smug condescension: reddit personified

the fact that i have to explain this to you makes you a probable redditor or a tradcath who's extremely mad because i insulted the honour of his fat princeling

>>10363217
It may not be insightful and it may be a banal platitude but that doesn't mean it is not true.

>>10363462
common truth is worth fuck all

>>10363532
Wrote like a common fool

>>10363952
the sky is blue hurr worship me

>>10361810
But if you have a genuine relationship with Christ, I think there's a degree to which you're compelled to try to lead people by your example. Saint Paul himself says "Be imitators of me, as I am an imitator of Christ." Absent an actual apparition of Christ himself, the surest way to find examples of Christian behavior is in the lives of people who have a close relationship with him.

Also, again, I really don't trust the Orthodox to report accurately on St. Francis. They tend to be spooked by his stigmata, and thus are inclined to think of him uncharitably.t

>>10361729
>286 lb
>tfw this isn't even all that fat by current American standards

What went wrong with America, /lit/?

>>10363979
>Be imitators of me, as I am an imitator of Christ.
Christ never did or encouraged anything like that account from Francis's life. Neither did Paul. Francis may have been sincere, but he let his passions rule him.
>>10363979
>They tend to be spooked by his stigmata, and thus are inclined to think of him uncharitably.
His visions, and how he pursued them, are more suspect than his stigmata (which in itself is suspect). Compare the life of Francis to lives of earlier saints that we share, to their experiences with God. It's right to be wary of people who seek after ecstatic sensual experiences. Let's say Francis was sincere and his experiences were holy. It would still be incredibly dangerous for people to model their spiritual lives after him.

>>10363979
>>10364149
ignore the gif, i was originally going to say something less serious and forgot to delete that when i changed my mind.

>>10364149
Look at this sinner pass judgement on St. Francis! Oh dear!

>It would still be incredibly dangerous for people to model their spiritual lives after him.
How satanic of you, anon.

>>10361670
Definitely the case with the Irish church, holy shit.

*blocks your path*

>>10364608
>Look at this sinner pass judgement on St. Francis! Oh dear!
Are you saying that Francis didn't sin, or that he's above criticism? Do you really think it's safe for most people to seek after ecstatic, sensual visions?

>>10365281
Well he's a confirmed saint, isn't he? That means he has miracles attested to him, and is in Heaven.

People should seek after Christ. But what if their faith leads them to visions and miraculous happenings? Are they just supposed to ignore them? Francis had his visions due to his great faith, a faith God chose to reward. That's what people should copy from him.

>>10365304
We should live normal Christian lives to the best of our abilities. If God grants us certain experiences, we should thank Him. Francis desired ecstatic visions and prayed for specific physical sensations. We should never seek after visions or signs. The Devil and his demons can use them to lead us into spiritual delusion. If someone thinks they've had a vision from God, or experienced some other miracle, they should talk to their priest as soon as possible.

>>10365408
No truly lived Christian life can be "normal" as the world understands it. Our goal as Christians should be to become saints, because it's the saints that loved God to the fullest extent possible in this life.

>>10365456
"normal Christian lives", meaning the normative Christian life as revealed to us. Why would I use "normal Christian" to mean "worldly"?

>>10365195
It's the case with Catholicism everywhere. The comfy middle class Catholicism of America or the conciliary Catholicism of Europe that seeks not to offend compared to the catholicism of Africa or the SSPX.

>>10365281
None of the flowers of st. Francis that I know of actively seek any extatic experience, it is dominant with the semi heretical groups such as neocatecumens and the charismatics. Catholic spirituality has always been about meditation and escape from sin, never running to emotional ecstacy. That has been reserved only for a small number of saints like Francis, Teresa of Avila and Hildegard von Bingen.