/lit/ - Literature

>>10349042
Zizek would start off making seven coherent sentences at once.
Peterson will start shouting about the Gulag Archipelego

>>10349043
He said Solzhenitsyn is up there with Tolstoy and Dosto. What did he mean by this?

lippy shitnitz

>>10349053
it means he's never read Tolstoy or Dostoevsky

>>10349042
Zizek: *sniffs*
Peterson: Now, n-n-n-now, how can you just, just say that i-i-i-i-i-i-it, no sorry, I would need to know more about the, about the, context.

>>10349042
That room wouldn't be able to structurally handle the amount of hand gestures these two would be throwing out.

We need to mass email Peterson and convince him to have a debate with the sniffman

>>10349516
Why would he risk embarrassing himself and destroying his reputation when he has all that patreon money flowing in

>>10349518
>destroying his reputation
Have you seen the recent twitter debate about race he had? His core fans are pretty right wing so that won't sit well with them. Truthfully, he has nothing to lose.

>>10349527
>Have you seen the recent twitter debate about race he had?
Nigga do you think we give that much of a fuck. Give a tl:dr

>>10349527
Right Wingers love Zizek though. The only people who don't like him are Leftists

>>10349533
>Peterson doesn't like rightwing racism or ethnonationalism
>makes some twitter posts about it
>'individualism will beat collectivism'

>>10349533
He said that he thinks white pride is as bad as black pride /pol/-tards got butthurt

>>10349535
Exactly. Dr. Sniffs vs Dr. Memerson.

>>10349535
>Right Wingers love Zizek though.
like who?

>>10349682
this guy
https://twitter.com/richardbspencer/status/631312193263239168?lang=en

>>10349695
err I wouldn't say he is mouthpiece of the Right, considering how many people are quick to disown him

>>10349043
lmao

>>10349535
sad but true

>>10349695
>Richard Spencer

>>10349695
CIA honeypot

Never trust a man with two first name

>>10349043

Then zizek is disqualified after he admits plagiarism

Your room better be clean if you are posting in this thread.

>>10349042

I never would have thought that the main conflict in politics would be between the supporters of two schools of off-brand psychoanalysis, but here we are.

>>10350257
>main conflict
>washed-up film critic who writes the marxist version of racist uncle posts for magazines sometimes vs. dumbass clinical psychology professor who convinced the most smooth brain demographic on earth (virgin gamers) that he was a philosopher because he is triggered by pronouns
jesus fuck help us all

>>10350131
Fucking nerd, who doesn't cheat on their homework

>>10350298
>jesus

Neither, they would immediately start sucking each others penises.

>>10349695
Spencer is Nazbol and has also said that Marx was mostly right.

Peterson couldn't even hold his own in a """debate""" with Sam Harris. Twice.

>>10350641
Everyone accepts Marx was mostly right in his critique of capitalism
It's his solutions people question

>>10350653
>Everyone

Nope.

>>10350658
Everyone who actually read him

>>10350633
Who do you imagine has the grosser penis?

>>10350648
>losing a debate to motherfucking sam harris
AYY LMAO

Someone post that pic of Zizek fucking that girl.

>>10350298
>triggered by pronouns
Don't be so shallow. He isn't "triggered" by the pronouns for no reason. It's the fact that a) you can argue that the whole infinite pronoun phenomenon is based on faulty premises and b) people may become legally obliged to use these pronouns

Not even a Peterson fanboy but I can completely understand his concern about where this is heading.

>>10350658
My dude, even Adam Smith would have agreed with vol. 1 of Kapital.

fuck her pretty whore wet hole home pussy or the read the hegel?

>>10350682
I'd also like to see this.

>>10349491
Kek

I actually love the way zizek speaks, with all his sniffs and ruffling.

>>10349491
just have it happen in italy, buildings are engineered to withstand orders of magnitudes more gestures than american buildings

>>10349575
Pride comes before the fall. You can have other feelings about race, but not fucking pride.

>>10350669
Peterson has a smooth pencil-dick.
Zizek's is twisted in a unique way and suspiciously dark-colored.

>>10350648
If by that you mean he couldn't get anything through Sam's thick skull, then I follow. Otherwise, no clue what you mean.

>>10350875
It is known

>>10350905
You mean Sam didn't eat up whatever he had to say without question and tried to debate?

>>10350875
Probably accurate

>>10350875
Well yea, we know. Which is grosser though?

I noticed something recently, I watched a few older Jordan B Memerson videos from before he got famous (when his hair wasn't grey and he still had a beard) and his talks were far more interesting.

>>10350932
I didn't hear much debating. Sam can't grasp the bigger picture, even if Peterson goes off the rails sometimes and is even wrong, this much is still true about Sam. He's your average American pragmatist who has had little experiences and thus has little ideas of things.

>>10350943
Zizek's is grosser but also larger (thicker)

>>10350653

Marx critique is largely founded on his analysis of history which is full of bad history.

>>10350669

Zizek for sure. It’s prob fat but hidden beneath a canopy of pubes and always has a bit of piss dribble at the tip.

>>10350948
Petersons insistence on a dumbass definition of truth is what fucked him. Then in the next debate he was BTFO by a cook book

>>10350944

That’s cuz nobody was asking him about the same shit all the time.

>>10351118
>he was BTFO by a cook book

While amusing, Harris lost the debate at this point because he showed he didn't really understand the ideas Peterson was putting forward at all.

>>10351100
>bad history
Like what? That production has increased greatly with the development of new technology, leading to increased surplus? What is bad history?

>>10349484
underrated.

I treat audio lectures and videos as my equivalent of watching movies or TV shows, and those two are by far my favorite entertainers. We could throw Noam Chomsky in there for good measure, just to piss off the "they never did their research and their interpretation of something I read was different so I'm going to shit post on the internet about it" types.

>>10351118
Link?
>>10351177
Link?

>>10349535
>right wingers love a pseudoscientific postmodern that says whatever controversial shit will get him the most attention without any care for substance or truth
He probably reminds them of themselves.

>>10351224
See there's one of the buttblasted Libfags now

>>10349042
clean your room, sniffer boy

/lit/ has become like vietnam, a proxy battleground for the war between /pol/ and leftypol/shareblue/jidf etc.

>>10351280
And I'm a villager that just wants both of them to leave us the fuck alone so that we can talk about literature and rice.

>>10351177
>he juss didn't get it man!

No the lack of hermeneutic foundation in Jungianism is absolutely a legitimate angle to push, especially when Peterson unlike Zizek claims to be a "scientist"

>>10350685
slippery slope bullshit

>>10350653
LOL

>>10351280
Every fucking board is like this now. We either need to delete /pol/ or beef up moderation sitewide.

>>10351972
or delete leftypol/shareblue/jidf etc. and submit to your masters like the weak little bitches you are

>>10349533
Watch Millennial Woes' video on it.

>>10350653
>LTV

>>10351988
I would love more than anything for /pol/'s continued existence to be put to a sitewide vote. Let's let all of 4chan have a say in whether the board continues to exist.

>>10350790
That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of it that way

>>10352042
you'd be suprised. for all the "4CHAN IS ALL ANTI /POL/ EXCEPT POL ITSELF" spergtantrums 4chan is mostly children from /b/, /v/, /r9k/ and the other majority-right-wing (or at least vaguely pro-free speech) "big boards"; porn; /pol/, which comprises an absolute massive percentage of traffic for just one board, going over the traffic of /b/ in some instances (during the election iirc); and a small weird grassroots leftist reclaimation movement, which ought to in part be actual tumblr/discord/irc/twitter meme-teens and whiny goons on /vg/ and /co/ and /vp/ and /tg/, the """oldfags"""" from /qa/ and /jp/, and places like this board and its outgrowths eg daul-imageboard-browisng leftypolacks. I don'y really browse /pol/ anymore, so i don't have that much of a stake in this, but I know which side annoys me more and it'd sure be funny to see you guys get your asses kicked.

>>10352042
you understand that if /pol/ were deleted they would swarm into the rest of the site, don't you

>>10351972
>delete /pol/ because it's right-wing
>"moderate" posts that are right-wing

>>10352148
Are you implying that they haven't infested every other board already?

You can't even post on fucking /ck/ without their cancer popping up from time to time.

>>10351189

That’s nowhere near an accurate representation of Marx’s historical materialism and fails to address the main thesis that economics were the primary driver of a society and more than that, history. Marx uses this premise to “examine” patterns in history. The problem of course is that such patterns don’t exist. Much like the cyclical histories and the great man theory and such analysis, all it does is select the most relevant historical anectdotes and then further reduces them to an oversimplification which fits the pattern of active forces. Not only is it bad history but bad anthropology as well.

>>10352042

Newfag detected.

That was tried with /new/

>>10351972
>beef up moderation sitewide
The point of this site is the lack of moderation, you nitwit.

>>10351275
A clean room iz *sniff* an ideology of capitalism. You want it ordered and measured in way that everything is found *wipes nose* easily without much effort. And you must accumulate more stuff for the room to further showcase of the type of person you are; support troops, Eco friendly purveyor of dragon dildos and so on. Total mess ish of coursh anarchy and Chomsky is dumb in sthinking that a messy room will succeed in finding and escaping ideology. Like the joke a one eyed Croatian Dwarf once told me "I am always reaching for the highest shelf above my bed, but being fucked by gravity".

>>10350653
>Everyone accepts Marx was mostly right in his critique of capitalism
HOL UP

>>10352166
No, because you are cancerous piece of shit like you just demostrated with your meme lizard from facebook

>>10352687
Lol pepe is board culture. And so is being right-wing. Deal w/ it faggot

>>10350653
you should have clarified that everyone who has read him accepts that his critique was mostly accurate

>>10351280
>shareblue/jidf etc
and the boogeyman

>>10351608
Oh yes, compelled speech could NEVER happen. Look away from the curtain, folks, nothing to see here.

>>10352744
yes, you will be sent to prison for misgendering people just like you get sent to prison for calling someone a nigger
you will also be forced to fuck transgender people once a week
and you'll be able to marry your dog or a tree, just like those people always said you would

>>10349043
hhahaaahahahaahaa

>>10351539
peterson mostly talks about psychological and biological studies and mentions jung in relation to their conclusions

>>10349042
>Jordan Peterson's confirmed favorite video game is Persona 4
>Zizek's confirmed favorite game is Morrowind
which has the better taste

>>10349053
funny how JP conveniently forgets Solzhenitsyn's 200 Years Together and Carl Jung's Wotan essay :^)

>>10351224
now I see why the right likes zizek

>>10349695
zizek is so far left, leftist literally think he is right winged.

>>10351972
If you don't like it, why don't you unironically just go to reddit? The very reason that people come here is because of the edge, the unrestrained posts. If you want some dull, tightly controlled forum then reddit is up your alley.

do they have a debate scheduled

>>10354200
>dude being edgy is the only thing that matters fuck discussion xd

>>10351608
>>10352830
>"Oh they'd never try and push it on anyone else, stop being so bigoted"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4896260/drag-queens-nursery-schools-teach-kids-transgender-issues/

>>10354209
Did I say it was the "only thing that matters"? No I didn't. But you have to admit that part of the allure of this place is the considerable lack of moderation. Surely?

>>10354211
dumbass, we were talking about prison sentences
you do understand the concept of a dialogue - two people talk and engage each others' arguments, not make up what the other guy said and engage that instead

and yes, teaching kids that trans people exist isn't "pushing it on them", it's education, nobody became trans or gay after seeing someone in a dress, retard

>>10354133
anglo-leftists*
I even wanna clarify, I don't think the english are to blame for this. Sure, they had their fair share of retarded authors (Mill, Bentham, Russell, etc.) but this is very clearly american contamination of their milieu.
The average american actually believes the democratic party is a extreme left organization, I find it very difficult for them to come to terms with an author like Zizek, whose main focus is ideology, the bread and butter of the United States of America.

>>10354224
>considerable lack of moderation
moot threw down the banhammer a lot of times though. I don't see how 4chan has lower moderation than other sites. The only real thing it has going for it is forum anonymity

>>10351539
And anyone who read Jung's starter book know that he explicitly didn't bother to make his psychoanalysis scientific like Freud did, even appealing against the positivism. But I bet Peterson didn't mention that

>>10354282
>the democratic party is a extreme left organization
Nobody thinks this. The Democratic Party basically = the not Trump button. Identity groups flock to it because, well, identity groups. Nobody expects anything to really come from it.

>the bread and butter of America
That sounds really gay. We post ideology now. We're just fighting to keep the cherade going, and out of boredom.

>>10354133
Leftists think Zizek is right wing because he endorsed Trump.

>>10354390
Nah he said don't vote or vote Trump to accelerate and it is working ... sort of.

>>10354380
>We pure ideology now.
FTFY

>>10351539
This is just like when Analytics claims the Continentals are just sophists as if this is an argument and as if the Continentals aren't right. "I won't believe car crashes hurt like a mother until it's quantified for me" tier stupidity.

>>10353727
Zizkek obviously. Anyone got that pic of Zizek/Vivec?

>>10352042
>>10352121
I think you two morons need to read about what the fuck Eternal September is and realize how stupid the things you people said.

>>10349769
sam kriss

>>10354380
>Identity groups flock to it because, well, identity groups.
lolno, it's because the other guys are infinitely terrible when it comes to any identity other than white, straight, christian, male, and dems use this to enact republican-lite economic policy (Clinton: "Would breaking up the big banks solve racism?!" "NO!")
they're using these groups who can't go anywhere else in the two-party system as shields for their neoliberalism

>>10354276
>we were talking about prison sentences
>fines no p time
>don't pay fine
>gets p time
>HURR YOU WONT GO TO PRISON FOR SPEECH JUS PAY FINE IDORIT
How you sound

>>10354380
I mean, Republicans are an identity politics party. It's just white christian identity for the most part.
>>10354462
I can confirm that if there was a sane, viable conservative party in America, I'd give their policy more serious consideration.

>>10354461
One of the biggest soyboys on the internet, also just got accused by a bunch of women of sexual harassment

Thanks for proving my point

>>10354390
>>10354411
doesn't make sense to vote Trump as an accelerationist. accelerationism refers to global capitalist dynamics, the global capital candidate was Hillary, Trump was a reaction against the continuation of those neoliberal measures

>>10349042
zizek will sniff him to death

>>10354748
What's Trumps economic plan?

>>10354781
Well, he sort of ran with protectionism and a de-finacialization of the American economics to the point where manufacturing rather than services and fiscal tools of the financial industry make up the core of the economy.

So that anon was right. Not at all the accelerationist option. Of course, Americans are so fiscally and economically illiterate that their only voting criteria are border policy/multiculturalism, religious affiliation and their choice of virtue signalling (compassion and harm reduction for 'lefties'; loyalty and authority for 'righties').

But no, by economic standards, Trump was far from an accelerationist in a Marxist's view. On the contrary, they could've unironically liked him better than Hillary.

>>10354830
key words - "he ran as"
in office he's a neoliberal

>>10354478
reductio ad absurdum is a shit argument cause anything can be boiled down to the most extreme form in that way

>>10355190
>Durr your fallacy is dumb because its has wide applicability
>BOO BOO BABABA

>>10349769
kek

>>10355177
Yes, but we were discussing Zizek's view of him as the accelerationist option, which at the time was based on what ''he ran as'' and which ultimately shows his economic illiteracy.

>>10349535
I'm leftwing and I like him

>>10352262
underrated

>>10355177
How the fuck is enacting protectionist policies and trying to curb immigration neo-liberalism

>>10355198
>Durr your fallacy is dumb because its has wide applicability
>BOO BOO BABABA
>GOO GA GO GA GOO

>>10355263
>implying Zizek didn't know he won't act like one all along
Now this is 4D chess bitch :^)

>>10354478
So which hypothetical country is this in? Because the 1st amendment is quite clear, and SCOTUS is more than happy to defend it, even when they neglect the 4th or 6th amendments, across the ideological spectrum of the court. Any restrictin like you're quivering in your boots over would be flatly unconstitutional and would get an injunction (if passed) faster than anything else you could think of. The ACLU would be there helping, as well, trying to prevent it from passing.

You just don't get how stupid this doom and gloom scenario is given American constitutional case law.

>>10352205
You should read Marvin Harris

>>10357047

You do realize Peterson’s problem was with the Canadian bill c-16 and the wording of the OHRC which reveals the context for interpretation which states “refusing to refer to a trans person by their chosen name and a personal pronoun that matches their gender identity … will likely be discrimination when it takes place in a social area covered by the Code, including employment, housing and services like education.”

So it’s not a slippery slope to say that “refusing to refer to a trans person by their chosen name and a personal pronoun (zer) that matches their gender identity” may be seen as an act of discrimination and therefore it’s compelled speech.

>>10354830
>>10354748
Where do I start with economics so that I'm not a fiscally and economically illiterate American?

>>10357146
the greeks

>>10357179
>the greeks
>economy

Ummm

>>10349551
Well shit if anything that gives him credibility since he took a stance against his paying fanbase for something he actually believes in. Which is correct btw.

>>10355263
Zizek made no explicit references to accelerationism during the election. He simply posited that a Clinton victory would have had a placating effect on the American left, whereas a Trump victory would have the opposite. This blow to the left was, in Zizek's eyes, an authentic potential for the left to reevaluate their party and create a new platform which would actually open itself to the "Bernie revolution". Unfortunately the left in the US has done no such thing.

>>10357047
>hypothetical country
It's called Canada, and believe it or not we do exist. Do people really think Peterson is American?

>>10357210
Fuck you. Hillary was the correct choice you underaged newfag.

>>10357205
Him taking a stance on what he believes in came before he had fans. He didn't make a Canadian University discipline him over his youtube channel, but they did. That's what made the alt-right love him, his stance on prescribed speech. He openly admits he sways left however, and most of the people on the right completely miss his point.

>>10357141
Not that anon but isn't it more like a matter of etiquette? I mean, an employer has the right to demand a certain conduct when acting as an employee right?

>>10357235
I was explaining another persons opinion, not giving my own. Are you always this thin skinned or is today a particular bad day for you?

>>10357248
*when someone is acting as an employee

>>10357248
For Peterson it's a distinction between restricted and proscribed speach. It's okay to make the rule such that you cannot use certain words (hate speech, racial slurs, ect.), this is fine to be made into law. Proscribed speech, or certain words you must use, are not however (according to Peterson). To tell someone the words which they must use, as opposed to barring words you shouldn't use, is where the real problem lies for him.

>>10357285
Again, I don't really see the problem with this. They're not forcing him to to use these as a private citizen, they're demanding certain conduct of an employee. Employers ask employees to say things that conflict with their personal views all the time. If a fast food worker is told to describe every item as delicious even if they find it disgusting and the worker is fired for describing an item as disgusting, I don't see how its an impingement on their free speech

>>10357235
>>>/b/
or >>>/facebook/

>>10350653
>Everyone accepts Marx was mostly right in his critique of capitalism
Holy fuck no.

>>10357326
But they explicitly referred to the CHRC which applies to everyone in Canada, regardless. He made a video saying it might now be against the law to criticize a certain bill (C-51) and the university basically agreed with him and told him to stop.

>>10357346
Not him but I think you need to distinguish his economic critique from the philosophic or "spiritual" one about worker/labor estrangement and disfranchisement

>>10357210
>Unfortunately the left in the US has done no such thing.
It is though, kinda of

>>10357388
even if they don't, they're going to win in the long run, because barring some radical shift in the views of nonwhites(near impossible), the demographic trajectory is entirely in the favor of the democratic party. i suppose lefty/lit/ will get to see all their wildest dreams come true

>>10357397
>democratic party.
>left
wew lad

>>10357446
despite the protestations of lit, the democratic party is indeed leftist, and if you complain because they aren't leftist enough, you needn't worry: as i said, the demographic transition will give leftists all the votes you need

>>10357463
From an international perspective the US Democratic party is fairly right wing. Any 'left wing" party that still resists universal healthcare raise an eyebrow, to say the least. Neoliberal for sure, but leftist is a bit of a stretch.

>>10357483
By American standards, if you're left of Pinochet you're not right-wing. Dems do have a left(Bernamn) and a completely corrupt batshit right(shitlery). She was so much closer to Trump than Bernman it's not even funny.

>>10349769
wise

>>10357179
Pay denbts

>>10357535
No, they really don't

>>10349042
they would both sit there rubbing their hands together ominously and begging for shekels from Reddit

>>10357488
yes, bernamn, my favorite current democratic representative

>>10357545
it's a /int/ meme

>*sniffs* vell yes, you see *rubs nose* dzere zeems to be *waves hand* some konfushion as to veder *rubs nose more rapidly* dis idea holds legitimateness

>>10351972
Delete pol after you're done tearing down a wasp nest with your bare hands.

>>10350944
Is Shakespeare right?

>>10357698
Well, you see, Karl Marx was smart, very damn smart, but Karl Marx, You know, if you look at the history, and this can see seen in Dostoyevskys stories. So that's easy, but they'e POST-MODERN NEO-MARXIST. It appears at different levels of articulation, but, it's immensely complicated! And when all they care about power, they don't assume that the dominance hierarchy can be restructured, when you can't even clean your own room, and THATS THAT!

>>10349516
we could meme this into existence but I'm not sure these 2 would have anything worthwhile to say to eachother.

>>10353742
>conveniently forgets
What would you have him do?
Go on a stage and denounce Judaism and jewsih subjective morality as anti-logos and also a vehicle for tribalism, self-hatred and mass enslavement across history?

He obviously know about the JQ.
Whenever he's been asked this question he always avoids it by reshaping the question itself. It would be PR suicide.

>>10357770
almost

>>10357235
b8

>>10357807
>your absolute face when
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=171&v=IKtlVXl2o9E

>>10354133
he is leftist, just authoritarian