/lit/ - Literature

One. Learn to use a dictionary.

>>10161410
it's a tripthong; one syllable

>>10161423
>trip
dip

Two if you don't say it like a retard

Fi-ure

Two.

>>10161442
>>10161446
Not how syllables work. As the earlier anon said, the vowel is a triphthong.

>>10161448
Dip

>>10161446
>>10161442
Smart

>>10161423
>>10161448
Dum-dum with a degree

>>10161450
No, it's a triphthong [aJə]

>>10161459
ai is one vowel

>>10161459
Should be fiur though.

>>10161410
I'm from michigan; two

>>10161462
[ai] is a diphthong. [a] and [i] are two vowels and when glided together they make the diphthong [ai]. You don't understand what diphthong means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphthong

>>10161410
What did she mean by this?

>>10161462
I think you are confusing diphthong with digraph. A digraph is when two letters represent one sound. A diphthong is when two vowel *sounds* are glided together. They can be written with one letter like the English "i". The issue is the sound and not the letters.

>>10161473
>tfw you're too hot and intimidate everyone

>>10161473
>>10161482
I can imagine some fat dude now mumbling to himself "y-yeah... that's why I don't get laid..."

>>10161423
>>10161421
>>10161430
>>10161448
>>10161459
>>10161469
>basically saying faaaar like you're some kind of 1800s American slave

A better question would be to ask about words like 'flour' which can be one or two syllables.

>>10161502
The last part of the triphthong is a rhotic vowel. It sounds like "faiuhr" but it is one syllable because the vowels glide together.

>>10161430
>>10161450
>>10161455
Dumdums

>>10161505
It's technically two, same for fuel and duel, but certain accents pronounce them as one syllable. Officially if you're using those words in poetry, you should note they're number of syllables or else assume them as two.

>>10161505
You would never say flower is one syllable

>>10161487
*movie announcer voice* THIS WINTER-
main character with steampunk glasses and blue hair and trenchcoat walks down a busy street, no signs of future setting anywhere except the maincharacter's clothing. we can hear his thoughts: "It's the year 2017. World population: 7.6 billion. We are at the brink of extinction, yet no one is willing to mate."
*computer generated graphs repeating the year and population number, in between stock footage of people of all ages around the world*
*movie announcer voice* ONE MAN-
maincharacter drinking coffee at a starbucks and we can hear his thoughts again: "The zionist reptilecabbalah found our weak spot; porn and computers. Nobody is having sex anymore, everything is happening digitally"
*quick cuts of stock phootages of people aweing a computer in 80's, zuckerberg on stage getting massive applauses etc
*movie announcer* IS THEIR ONLY HOPE
cut back to the starbucks(where peculiarly everyone else seems to be a couple, only our main character is alone)
maincharacter stands up and pulls a sawn-off shotgun from a sleeve of his trenchcoat and starts pointing everyone with it. he shouts: "ALRIGHT LADIES, YOU ALL HAVE TO HAVE SEX WITH ME! THERE IS NOT MUCH TIME LEFT SO LET'S MAKE IT QUICK!"
*cue dubstep music and all the best parts of the movie*

>>10161532
Flower can only be two syllables while flour can be one or two. Check a dictionary if you don't believe me.

>>10161533
I did not read this post and I hope nobody else will either

>>10161547
>>10161533
I read it. I thought it was alright. I didn't laugh out loud but I thought it was funny.

>>10161536
Sure because a double-u isn't technically a vowel though it almost exclusively precedes one. It's because it's a watered down version of -our- to help set the pronunciation in stone. Meaning 'technically' flour 'should' be pronounced with two syllables, but given its spelling it accepts the accent of one syllable pronunciation. I understand what the dictionary says, but really think about how flower is not ever one syllable though nothing stops one from pronouncing it with one, just as flour. 'Fluer'. It's the disconnect of modern to past English.

I thought I explained this before.

this:
>>10161423
>>10161448

say fire, then say higher. note the difference

>>10161528
>they are number of syllables

>>10161657
>not being number of syllables

>>10161657
thanks for the (you)

make sure you proofread all your text messages to assure peak grammar and diction senpai

>>10161536
>flour can be one symbol
FLAAAAAAAR

>>10161423
>tripthong
>two vowels

ok

>>10161468
I'm from Michigan too. My elementary school had me go to a speech specialist to correct to say I said fire.

>>10162039
A diphthong (or triphthong) has no relation to the number of letters that are present. It concerns only the vowel *sounds* that are spoken. As such, the English long "i" contains the vowel sounds [a] and [i], which are glided together, thus forming a diphthong that is written as one letter, "i". Likewise the English long "a" is a gliding together of the vowels [e] and [i]. A diphthong can be expressed with two letters of course, such as in "coin" ([o] and [i]), but like I said, the number of letters is besides the point. You simply don't understand what a diphthong is.

>>10161410
2---Fie-uhr

>>10162270
Wrong.

>>10161459
wow some words have more than one pronounciation!

in American English, all triphthongs are two syllables because of the intrusive consonant. in the case of "fire", the intrusive consonant is the "y" sound we put between fi and re. so it's fi-yurr, hence, two syllables. why is this a thread.

>>10162307
There's no extra consonant sound in "fire". The IPA is here >>10161459. It's three vowel sounds. Pay closer attention to what you're actually doing when you pronounce it.

>>10162318
aren't all intrusive consonants not actually a part of the word and only used to aid pronunciation? i know it's three vowel sounds -- that's why i said it was a triphthong.

>>10162341
Try consciously putting the "y" sound into it. Try saying it consciously "fai-yur" and then saying it how you normally say it. You should notice there's a difference.

>>10161555
>>10161533
samefaging is masturbatory behaviour

>>10162274
Wrong

>>10161410
It rhymes with higher and shier, each of which has two. Practically, two. Otherwise, wtfc?

>>10161502
"Fire" vs "fy her" dude. This shit ain't complex. Most people get it without any sort of distress. Maybe you're autistic?

It's one syllable.
The vowel is dypthongized which means your tongue changes position while you are pronouncing the vowel however since no new consonent is introduced it is the same syllable

also the e at the end is silent lol

>>10161410
who is this fiery fiend

>>10162748
It's not fy her, it's fy-er,or fy-'er. And you're right, it's not complex, it obviously two syllables if your accent isn't retarded

>>10162796
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_dsjmyze2U

>>10161410
1) 'Higher' has two syllables.
2) I say 'fire' in the exact same way I say 'higher', excluding the first consonant.
Conclusion - in my accent, fire has two syllables.

>>10162958
That's a small boy anon.

>>10161502
the queen says 'faar', the scraggily old bitch

>>10163395
Does she really? I'd think with her accent she'd say fie-er.

>>10161410

two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLftjtN9Hpk

even brits have it bisyllabic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw

>>10161599
There's no difference

>>10163664
Hi-er
Fi-er

>>10164377
Hi'yer
Fiar

>>10164396
Hi'yer
Fi'yer

Hi'r
Fi'r

Hire
Fir e

Fur
Fury

Fir (tree)
Fir-e

werd

Fucking hell, will any of you retards learn the phonetic alphabet already. This whole thread is a shitshow.

>>10164448
pair

pear

fair

fare

lyre

pyre

pie

phi

phi er

phi'r

phi-r

fi

fi er

fier

fire

>>10163412
nah posh english people say faar

>>10161430
that's 2, trip is 3 - some dialects probably use 2 though

>>10161410
>ITT brainlets thinking random arbitrary symbols are the actual sounds that they're making
This is meant to be a /lit/erature board, why are you not at least briefly acquainted with the very fundamentals of fundamentals of how language works? At least learn what fucking vowels and syllables are

>>10161410
Holy shit, I thought this board was smart. Most retarded thread on /lit/ atm, maybe on the whole of 4chan.

>>10164959
>>10164949
>>10164842
>doesn't simply provide the answer

>>10165012
Others have already done so, and the retards tried to refute them (with nothing except their ignorance, of course). I was expressing my incredulity at the uncultured brainlets that appear to comprise this board.

In my accent, two

>>10164448
This is either bait or else the dumbest thing I've ever read

For any of you saying 'in my accent it's two' or 'the way I say it is two': literally just say Pale Fire aloud and not in your head. If you say fire alone and in your head or even under your breath you're putting extra emphasis on the word than you normally would

this whole thread just shows how stupid english is

>>10165545
How? Because a word can be one or two syllables depending on accent? That's fairly standard procedure.

>>10165550
But that's not the case for fire. Just as its not really the case for flour either. As I said earlier that really only occurs with words like fuel and duel where they should be pronounced as jewel but easily take on a one syllable accent:
Few'el
Fewl

Dew'el
Dewl

Flah'wer (flower)
Flhour (flour)

Hi'yer
Fiar

Three

>>10165604
>Flah'wer (flower)
Who decided against Flow er and why?

Two. Fi-reee

Twelve.
First is the cold, that spreads in your lungs.
Second is the desire, rising.
Third is the gathering of logs and sticks and twine.
Fourth is the building to burn.
Fifth is a spark.
Sixth a breath.
Seventh comes the lick of the first flame dancing in the dark.
Eight is the pride in your eyes and the heat on your skin.
Ninth is the smoke that waters your eyes, cause you to curse what you love.
Tenth is the dying light on tired eyes.
Eleventh is the cinders glowing.
Twelfth is the ashes, given to the wind.
Fire has twelve syllables.

>>10164932
No, posh English people enunciate the most clearly and say fi yer

Three. Or two.
Fi-yer-er, fi-yer on the mountain.

One. Fyr.

>>10161410
Press your hand under your chin and say the word. Every time your hand goes down when you speak it, that's one syllable.

Why so many replies
It's two
Fye-Ur

>>10167551
Fucking brainlets talking about phonology when both sides know shit all

>>10161502
>saying fy-RAY

>>10165347
I agree with your point, but the way you write sounds like you're trying to sound smart and it makes me cringe

TWO

vocaroo.com

Someone record themselves saying Fire, how its supposed to be said

>>10167733
There's no point. Some people in this thread simply don't understand what they're talking about and are misinterpreting a triphthong as two separate syllables. Some of them don't even understand the difference between a phoneme and a letter.

>>10167746
Are there any 'controversial' syllable words, where the subtly of these 'mouthy movement' rules are questionable?

So Fire should be pronounced as Fur, Fir (tree) (is one syllable), but just with the eye = i sound.


Fur

Fir

F eye r

>>10167786
The vowel sound in "fire" is a combination of the three vowel sounds you can see in this picture: >>10161459 (4chan won't render the IPA symbols properly). The symbols correspond to the sounds produced depending upon the position of your tongue (see my picture). The three vowel sounds are glided together to form a triphthong, which a combination of three sounds.

you guys are genuinely autistic. I can't believe this thread got so many fucking replies. I can't imagine what you faggots look like irl

>>10167786
>>10167746
>>10167790

better example I thought of:

Iron.

Is Iron 1 syllable?

Firon

>>10167790
Are there any 'controversial' syllable words? Where it is actually up for debate?

>>10167797
Iron is two syllables. The [ə] does not glide into the "i" diphthong. If you tried to pronounce it as a triphthong it would sound strange.

>>10167801
There was some discussion about things like flower/flour earlier in the thread.

>>10167794
>I can't imagine what you faggots look like irl
I look like a fat loser probably.

Anyone confused about this issue should learn to utilize the International Phonetic Alphabet. It will help you systematize and clearly understand the sounds used in language. Try to use a dictionary that has IPA available if you can. Most American ones unfortunately don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

It is clearly two.

Syllables is best defined by sound and not number of letters,

Fy-ur. It is two syllables. Just like tire, wire, hire, and flyer. Two syllables.

>>10167825
Also it's extremely helpful if you're learning a new language as it will tell you exactly how to physically produce whatever sound you're trying to emulate.

>>10167826
Someone mentioned the word "iron" earlier. Try pronouncing "iron" and "fire" side by side. When you reach the "ur" part of each word, pay careful attention. You should notice that in "fire" the "ur" kind of melds with the "ai", whereas in "iron" there is subtle separation between the "ai" and the "ur". It may be hard to notice at first but it should help you understand the syllabic difference.

>>10167786
FIAR

>>10167832
>ai-ur-n
Took me a fair while to realise that we drop the r altogether on the east of the pond.

>>10167804
I Urn

not

I Ron

iern

Firen

ire

ire on

>>10161533
i didnt read this either

2 fie-urrrrrrr

>>10161421
>>10161423
>>10161448
>>10161459
>>10161599
>>10162274
>>10162748
>>10162771
>>10165530
>>10167280
nigger-spotting

Two unless you have a weird penis.

Depends. If I'm having a campfire with friends it's two: like fye-er. If I'm commanding a Civil War era artillery battery it's one: like FAAAAIR.

>>10161410
it varies from one community of language-speakers to another.

>>10167850
so dont pronunce the R

Fia

Fia

the roof, the roof, the roof is on fi r

Phi R

>>10168292
Flyer

Friar

Fryer

>>10168297
>Flyer
>Friar
>Fryer
Those are all two syllables, but fire is one syllable.

>>10168292
>>10168297
Fair

Phi er

Phier

Pier

Peer

Fear

Fier

Buyer

Liar

>>10168304
but its a perfect rhyme say it outloud

Flyer

Friar

Fryer

Fire

>>10168316
They're subtly different.

>>10168341
>Fryer
>Fire

Fry er

Fi re

Fri er

Fri re

Frire

Fire

fiya

>>10161533
I read this. It was funny.

>>10161410

The R is what complicates things. A word like 'fine' (or 'fight') is pretty clearly just one syllable since there is just one vowel sound. But pronouncing a long I sound followed by a hard R sound is very unnatural, so an additional vowel sound, a shewa, is introduced in between to aid in pronunciation
Back to 'fire', the long I doesn't blend with the hard R sound as well as other vowel sounds such as in 'far', 'fir', or 'for', all of which are clearly one-syllable words
There are two vowel sounds in 'fire', by necessity for the sake of pronunciation, so there are actually two syllables

>>10167713
>fy-ray

>>10169205
Iron is one syllable?

minus the n, it is similar to the ire in fire.

if iron is one syllable, it is possible to add the f in front without making it two?

firon.

say iron without the n. ire.

(whoever thought to pronounce iro like ire.....)
(whoever thought to pronounce ire like ier....)

>>10169461

I would say that 'iron' (and 'ire') would be two syllables, for the same reason from >>10169205. I will say though that this involves not treating the relevant triphthong as a single syllable, which some would definitely disagree with me on. I just don't see the ai sound and the shewa comprising a single syllable, partly because the R that follows is what causes the shewa to be added

>>10161410
One in British, two in American.

No, literally everyone saying its two syllables are just pronouncing it alone or in their head. Saying fire naturally is only one syllable. Ever.
Thread should've ended here >>10161421
>>10161423

>>10169493

Was thinking about this myself, in terms of the consonants involved. I came to the conclusion that it's two syllables in either
Also for what it's worth it's two in German too (Feuer), which has a softer R

>>10169529
Or, newsflash - there is such a thing as an accent.

>>10169570
Read the fucking thread
>>10165604

>>10169529
vocaroo.com

record yourself saying it, we will be the judge

>>10167145
wow. deep.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1Coo1FEB9Yf

fucking niggers

>>10169776
Where are you from?

>>10169809
bristol

>>10169776
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1DdIg0u3Nda

>>10169640
Wow. Fuck you, fag. This is a literature board isn't it?

It seems like there are two arguments going on here. One is how many vowels are in the word and one is how many syllables there are.
From my understanding it's a one syllable word, CVC (why is this even a question?). I know English has a lot of diphthongs, but I also understand the triphthong argument after looking at the IPA.

>>10169974
He's a pseud, desu idk who wrote that piece but it is good

>>10161410
Three. It's fuh-aye-er

>>10170011
WTF. It's total trash. And it's got nothing to do with this thread, you cuck.

>>10161410
4

fuh-aye-ur-uh

ITT: Prescriptivism

>>10170335
better than everything you can write, I bet 5 bucks

>>10161410

This particular word is a curious case. The word actually has π/2 syllables because of the geometry involved in the oral pronunciation and physical mouth formation of the vowel sounds. So π/2 is roughly 1.57, more or less halfway between, so not strictly one syllable nor quite two. So, does the word have one syllable, or two? The answer is Yes

>>10171011
seems legit, im on this guys team, a nice conclusive comprimise