/lit/ - Literature

Just start with the Greeks and you will develop ideas of your own to consider with regards to law.

Nnot even kidssing

>>10030865
>>10030868
Honestly, anon, don't listen to this advice. Please to read some old fucking Greek playwrights for insight into law and legal philosophy. Spend weeks reading Wikipedia pages surrounding contemporary law, and if you're feeling bored with non-fiction, consider exploring those ancient Greeks only to see how far human thought has evolved and progressed. Non-fiction is your friend here. Don't be duped into outdated fiction.

>>10030942
This. A good analogy would be how part of /lit/ has at least started to move beyond le start with the greeks meme.

Hey op, i am in my 2nd year of pre law. Should i finish a poli sci degree and apply to a good law school in ontario/quebec, or try my luck at the law college in my province? (SK)

How important is school pedigree?

John Rawls

I'm a bit of an ASS man myself.

>>10032162
>John Rawls

>>10032125
Not OP but don't fall for the top 14 meme.

>>10030868
God I hate phone posters.

>>10032945
What, then? Law grads at my local college only seem able to land jobs in the province, mostly in low end firms.

>>10033172
Why? Does it make you feel weird about not leaving your house ever?

>>10033319
>He hasn't heard of this amazing invention called a laptop

>>10030868
>>10030868
No, he should start with the Babylonians. The Code of Hammurabi n shit

>>10033672
Weirdest insult ever. Do you get out your laptop in between reps at the gym? Hahah, of course not, you don't go to the gym.

>>10030865
you should read the merchent of venice

it's bloom's favorite shakespeare play. seriously.

>>10033998
I've read it before and it was decent. Bloom is alright but his love of Shakespeare is obnoxious and pretentious.

>>10033930
Sweetie this is /lit/. No one outside of /fitlit/ goes to the gym. You probably don't either.

>>10033684
Start with the Summarians.

>>10032945
canada has nothing to do with the T14
also, its not a meme, its how you guarantee a well-paying job

>>10032162
Rawls is less about law itself, it's more about justice, legislation and public policy.

>>10035788
I'm sure Canada has an equivalent of the T14 meme.

Bump

>>10033283
Look at ways to market your degree and skills. Don't assume you'll be directly doing firm work or even stuff that requires a JD/Law Degree.

>>10030942
>myths
>outdated

The Modern Mind is truly in a state of decline.

>>10037783
>He fell for the Greeks meme

>>10037783
Have you even heard of the Flynn effect?

>>10040005
IQ just makes it easier to convince yourself you are right when you are wrong.

>>10030865
Hans Kelsen and Norberto Bobbio.
DO IT.
If I remember the names I forgot I come back to write them.

>>10040362
Not OP but thanks anyways.
Hoping people keep the thread up until then.

>>10040005
Have you heard of the negative Flynn effect?

>>10040362
Add Francesco Carnelutti

>>10030865
The Books of Authority for understanding Common Law in general.
As for US law, what better than the written opinions of SCOTUS justices? Read dissents too. There is also the Restatement of the Law by the American Law Institute
Legal philosophy? Well, aside from opinions you can observe the differences between the Confederate and US Constitutions, read works by the Federalist Society for conservative legal thought, etc.

>>10040733
No, but tell me more.

Ask me in a year, just started my masters in Legal Philosophy and Jurisprudence.

Try to delve into the whole "natural law vs legal positivism" debate, for instance.

>>10040819
The Flynn effect was caused by the removal environmental detriments to childhood brain development.
The 1st world plateaued on that effort decades ago, now those detriments are starting to actually come back in some cases, as well as there being new ones introduced.
And then there's the whole argument around dysgenics.

>>10030942
the first exam for the law major here is about roman law

>>10040944
Where is here?

>>10040821
Can you tell us a bit about it now? I doubt this thread will be up in a year.

>>10040821
What university are you at?

>law
Just end it now, you absolute fucking tool.

>>10039172
>>10040005
A truly horrifying state of decline.

>>10042713

I get to study the backgrounds of various legal disciplines. We delve into the perspective of many philosophers, both contemporary and ancient.

It's a lot of reading and a lot of papers due.

>>10042894
Tell me, how has the law hurt you anon? Where did the law touch you?

>>10042989
Tell us more about your program? Sounds interesting and comfy desu. I second whoever asked what University this is at.

>>10033930
>reps at the gym
Go back to /tit/ to talk about muscles you obviously don't need since you go out of your way to develop them.

>>10043721
>don't need
If my vocation is sedentary that means I DO need reps at the gym, you unhealthy fuck. At least you do MENTAL gymnastics while your temple falls down around you.

>>10043721
this

>>10044063
Shouldn't you be at the gym then instead of wasting time posting on /lit/ Arnold?

bump

>>10044727
I remember when /lit/ used to be a lot slower and this sort of thing was rarely needed. >>10044727

>>10043226

It's a master at a Dutch university.

Currently writing an essay on Hart's arguments for the separation of law and morals.

>>10030865
start with the romans
and latin

>>10035837

Wouldn't justice/legislation (?!)/public policy all be subsets of law?

>>10046115
Any suggested reading list for these starts with that would focus on the law? This goes for anyone really.

>>10046130
(?!) what did he mean by this?

>>10045344
Which Dutch University?

>>10043721
>>10044265
Sad!

>>10030865
For legal philosophy:
>Han Fei
>Plato
>Aristotle
>Marcus Tullius Cicero
>Thomas Aquinas
>Thomas Hobbes
>Hugo Grotius
>Baron de Montesquieu
>Emmerich de Vattel
>Jeremy Bentham
>Frederic Bastiat
>John Rawls

Any tips for not burning out in the first decade of practice?

>>10047196
Invest in a good fire extinguisher.

bump

> no Ronald Dworkin

Read Law's Empire or Justice in Robes. Dworkin was among the most influential liberal legal philosophers, second only to Rawls.

You can also read Michael Sandel's Justice. It will give you a good perspective of the main issues in legal philosophy with contemporary examples.

For Canada/US/UK: Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England. Still the law, still valuable. Legal philosophy? What's that? Lawyers don't study it nor care about it. Want to know what's going on? Read the advance sheets. They are fascinating.

>>10048194
>He limits the study of the Law to just lawyers

>>10047108
Pretty good choices for the historical context of legal philosophy. Could use more in terms of contemporary work being done.

>>10047748
>>10047750
Seconding this for anyone still keeping this thread going who might be interested.

>>10047040
t. brainlet
His body may be strong but it appears his mind is weak.
>The Captcha made me select images of bridges in order to post this comment/photo combination

>>10045344
>>10046935
Also curious about this.

Too busy watching Trump Judges going through the confirmation process but if this thread is still up tonight I'll probably post some suggestions for everyone.

Read Roberto Mangabeira Unger my dudes!

>>10030865
1. Depends on the country you're in. A civil law system has an extremely different set of philosophies from a system like the US or UK.

2. Buy cheap, old versions of first year law student textbooks for said system. They're meant for laypeople, essentially, and they'll give you a good primer. Usually the notes/non-case-material will give you additional things to look up from there. They're good jumping-off points.

t. American 2L

>>10050514
What school are you at? What did you get on the LSAT and what was your undergraduate GPA? Plans for the future? Any thoughts on clerkships?

1. USA respondent here who will be starting applications in the near future.

2. Suggestions as to what texts to get or where to get them from?

t. Hopefully I'll be an American 2L someday

>>10049606
The only method of staving off the decline of aging on the brain is exercise, dipshit. Strong body, strong mind. Your thinking is as flabby as your tits.

>>10050823
>Assuming that poster has flabby tits or might very well be Chris Christie

bump

rules are for powerless men

>>10051587
Oh look the edgelord hasn't had his mom tell him to go to bed yet!

>>10050514
Tell us more about yourself t. American 2L?

>>10030868
>Nnot even kidssing

>>10053031
>>10050770
I'm interested. Don't leave us hanging.

>>10048798
underrated post

>>10040362
>>10040787
Can someone give me the basic gestalt on these people?

bump

>>10040787
Who?

>>10050204
Sadly opinions, articles, and books by judges are never discussed on the law threads here that much.

How long do us /lit/igators think RBG has left on the court? Also, any bets on who you think Trump will nominate to replace her?

bump

>>10051540
>>10055899
>>10058653
Thanks for the bumps everyone

>>10032162
SJW detected

>>10059191
this.

>>10030865
>good books on general law

Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law - well, it's about American law, not general law, but it's a nice little book by a smart guy who was also a good writer.

Law as Translation - can't remember the author (I think he teaches at Michigan), but it was pretty good. Worth reading.

OW Holmes, Jr, that book with the line about "felt necessities" of the law - title escapes me at the moment - worth a gander.

The Black Swan - by some guy from U of MI, I think. It's not a law book, strictly speaking, but it's a very interesting piece of history about the eugenics movement in the US, including the legal side (Holmes: "Three generations of imbeciles are enough").

White, The Marshall Court and Cultural Change. A phenomenal work of scholarship, filled with interesting insights. If you actually get a hard copy, it's a beautiful example of book production.

>>10059534
Let me know if you fill in some of those blanks man. Those all sound interesting, and for that I am glad the thread has remained this long.

>>10041771
Home... Where is home ?

>>10060685
Damn that is deep.

>>10060685
Home is where the law is made.

>>10060685
bugs. . easy on the carrots.

>>10062501
XD fug bugs

>>10058226
A few months maybe? Probably the south Asian judge he recently elevated?

>>10060685
>>10062501
Living Document theorists... easy on the Constitution

>>10030865
Philosophy major and current 1L here. Only law worth reading is common law. Read opinions by judges like Cardozo and Oliver Wendell Holmes. Also a great segway is American pragmatism, seen in Holmes as well as the progressive and evolutionary process in the law.

>>10067025
>progressive
DROPPED

The current paradigm in legal philosophy comes from Neil MacCormick and Robert Alexy. But if you want to read them, it's good if you have knowledge about XXth century legal philosophy, so start with Pure Theory of Law (Hans Kelsen), The Concept of Law (Hart) and Law's Empire (Dworkin) - in this order.

>>10050494
>>10050494
You're from some FGV shit, aren't you?

>>10067215
You must be retarded in your mistake for thinking just because something is "progressive" that it's liberal. Learn a book.

My brother thinks law is STEM

>>10067247
Tell your brother he is adopted.

>>10067240
I'm from the United States actually. Someone recommended him on here before.

bump

>>10067244
>Calls other people retarded
>Learn a book

>>10067234
And who made you the decider of current paradigms in legal philosophy?

>>10067247
And why does he think this?

Has someone said Quine yet? /lit/ told me W V Quine is good. "Philosophy of Law" or something

>>10069508
Why Quine?

>>10069508
I wouldn't classify Quine in that way. Double check any recommendations given out here.

>>10069508
I'm afraid you got meme'd on son.

>>10069508
Only if you want analytic autism to an extreme degree.

bump

Norbitto Babbidi

>>10073191
Who? Name looks familiar but I think you butchered the spelling there.

>>10073414
I think he meant Norberto Bobbio

>>10069254
No one. This is simply the two leading authors in the field by scholarly consensus, the same way Kelsen used to just be the Wittgenstein of the law world back in the day. It simply implies importance.

>>10069508
Quine is good, but he doesn't deal with Law directly. His philosophy of language can be very useful, but I wouldn't recommend that you read Quine for law.

>>10073568
>Muh scholarly consensus
>Muh "leading" authors

>>10073568
Who would you recommend in terms of general philosophy of language? Who would you recommend when it comes to language philosophy and law?

The Federalist Papers are great for understanding government.

Read "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith to understand economics' role in government (Capitalism)

Read also "The Communist Manifesto" and understand the U.S. Articles of Confederation, even if you disagree with their philosophies.

Also, don't hesitate to teach yourself by analyzing current events. Read news articles, watch CSPAN, follow court cases, etc.

>>10074676
The most normie answer out there. Don't follow it exactly but do draw from some of those sources.

>>10074676
t. Middle Murica the post

bump

Carl Schmitt should have been said already.

>>10074676
Definitely read and study with more ambition than this post.

>>10076131
Seconding this. I personally blame normies like >>10074676 for the lack in critical legal thinking recommendations that usually happens on these threads.

>>10073859
This. Don't fall for consensus. The Law is more rich and complex then many in this thread will try and lead you to believe.

>>10074615
Also curious about this. Hard to get into philosophy of language on here.

>>10030865
State of Exception by Giorgio Agamben

Really surprised nobody mentioned Agamben one yet.

>>10077700
Can't help but agree with you there. All the more reason to keep the thread going. Have to fill in the gaps at some point after all!

Bump

>>10048798
this desu

I suggest you read: My Diary, Desu.

>>10077700
Can you give us the basic gestalt behind this?

Dworkin is a must. Then Joseph Raz. Then Hart (this guy is dated but makes some good points). For more contemporary points of view, look up Leslie Green.

For an ideological libertarian perspective, Law and Legislation by Hayek is actually pretty great. Also Freedom and Law or something like that by Bruno Leoni.