/lit/ - Literature

>>9991455
He's a kike, don't bother.

>>9991455
He believes in objective good vs evil and that Liberal Capitalism is the end of History.
He is not worth your time.

Nah. There are hundreds of better philosophers to check out first.

>>9991471
There is objective good and evil. Its definitely not subjective because a lot of people have the same views

>>9991455
I was skeptical but his biblical series is definitely worth a listen

>>9991477
His appeal is essentially that he's baby's first philosopher.

>>9991478
>Its definitely not subjective because a lot of people have the same views
A lot of people are dumb too, what's your point?

>>9991478
You stop shitposting there, bucko

>>9991484
That there are set morals that people generally follow. There are certain films and music that people prefer over others. These things prove that there is no such thing as subjectivity.

The collective always knows more than the individual

>>9991493
you have to be over 10 to post here, you know that?

>>9991502
Are you going to come up with a real argument?

>>9991493
>The collective always knows more than the individual
t.NOTstemfag

>>9991505
Science is a fun interest. Not too sure what you are getting at

Nothing good can come from a Peterson thread. Objectively.

>>9991493
bad bait

>>9991493
You do not know what the words objective and subjective mean.

>>9991529
subjective= based on personal opinions
objective = not influenced by personal feelings or opinions

>>9991516
not an argument. Society typically knows what is best for you. If you could somehow exist on your own without influence from other people you would not nearly be as wise as the knowledge that has come from a collective.

>>9991537
I can manipulate the dumb masses to do what I want, is this your "objective" good? I can make the majority of people literally do whatever I want, good or bad.

>>9991541
You already have a good idea of what is good or bad because you have been influenced by the hivemind. There is no subjective view on morality that hasn't been influenced by the collective of humanity.

>>9991455
He's a neo-nazi trying to hide his nazism with obscure concepts.

>>9991571
He's not a neo-nazi but the fact he isn't aware that a massive chunk of his followers are shows you just how in touch with reality he really is.

>>9991493
Shut the FUCK up!

He is okey for getting people introduced into Jung, but he is hopelessly trying to revive christianity instead of embracing the more complete myth of alchemy that Jung saw

>>9991455
he's pretty good. his lectures on genesis are particularly interesting.

even if you don't like him personally he seems to function perfectly well as a stepping stone to better works. he's introducing a lot of young people to neitzche, tolstoy, and jung, which can only be a good thing.

He's good for commentary on current events too although I think most people's understanding of how he is Christian is a little off base

>>9991642
I think his own understanding of Christianity is a little off base too.

I get that it might be valuable to psychologize certain aspects of the Bible, but Christianity does require belief in supernatural claims, something that he doesn't really give credence to at all.

>>9991455

He’s a good self-help guru. That’s all.

>>9991455
He's got great self help advice defiantly worth listening to his shorter videos. His obvious Christian bias is annoying

Yeah, he's definitely a meme, but he's just so captivating to listen to. The stuff he lectures about is very interesting and you can branch out from his lectures to pursue anything that interests you. His beliefs are quite reasonable in general, he's not overly edgy and he weaves/name drops good books all the time.

Let's face it, the only reason this board focuses so much on his oversimplification of postmodernism, which is only a small fragment of the work he presents, is that they cannot contend with the rest of his ideas.

Peterson's lectures and writings don't simply make one contend with harsh truths about the universe, they also present genuine solutions to these problems. This can he demonstrated empirically through the success of his self authoring program. However, most /lit/-posters are highly introverted, lazy, and have little to no drive to genuinely self improve.

Peterson's ideas present the /lit/-poster with actionable, measurable steps to improve their lot in life, going beyond the mere intellectual circlejerk presented in the majority of discussions on the board. This terrifies the /lit/-poster. So he resorts to attacking the one element of Peterson's philosophy that is easy to criticize. This is a mistake.

He's a salesperson hawking self-help, fortune cookie wisdom

>>9991675
The problem isn't self-improvement. The problem is self-improvement for what.

A retard who doesn't know anything about anything will find him to be an enlightened intellectual. To everyone else he's right wing Coelho. A tad smarter than Argumentman but that is faint praise. He's a snake oil salesman riding the neoreactionary wave and his followers are stupid or genuine neonazis

>>9991455
>conclusion
Independence.

>>9991685
Improvement (transformation of chaos into order) is what humans are adapted to do. If that isn't self-evident already I'd suggest you look into Peterson.

He's the first one to tap the market aimed at self-help books for the alt-right.

>>9991455
Really smart interesting guy with a cancerous fan base.

>>9991892
>Improvement (transformation of chaos into order) is what humans are adapted to do

That isn't an answer. Self-improvement needs a goal.

If you don't have a goal, you're not going to get anywhere.

So what goal do you think is worth painstakingly self-improving every single day?

>>9991685
So you're life isn't so fucking shitty

>>9991922
A life worth living.

>>9991954
Too vague.

>>9991996
It's not vague at all. It's very easy to notice when your life is making you depressed and anxious vs when it's not

>>9991455
Faux intellectual of the worst kind.

And check out this cucking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMqQBLZwRIE

You should stop posting non literature related posts maybe, Peterson posting should be bannable desu

>>9991685
You need a weight in life to carry, a responsibility. Humans aren't meant to do fucking nothing, we have to struggle against something even if it seems pointless. You clearly have never worked a day in your life if you don't see the benefits it gives you. Chaos is the enemy. Order and community are the goal. Thats why you are afforded a comfy place to live and think about this shit instead of being scared shitless living in the middle east or alone in the wild.

>>9991685
What you really mean is:im dont bear any responsability becausy my mommy isnt here to tell me what to do.Pomo cucc

>>9992139
>we have to struggle against something even if it seems pointless

You see, this doesn't actually work in practice. Whatever you work towards actually needs to be valuable to you, or there's no way you're going to do it.

>>9992279
In the grand scheme of things everything is pointless, which means you get to choose what has value to you and work toward it. High school tier shit here

>>9991455
Does anyone else hate this guy's face?
He just LOOKS fucking stupid. He has that expression of smug satisfaction that so many pseuds and mediocrities carry on their faces in public.

The type of person lacking in insight, who can't realise how idiotic they actually are.

>>9992046
>Peterson posting should be bannable desu
Him, Sargent, any Youtuber really

I disliked how much he interrumpted that jew boy when they were in the Rogan podcast. Some things I disagree him with and some I agree. Nice lad in general.

>>9991493
That's very poor epistemological reasoning. Consider framing morality within the limits of perception and experience rather than arbitrary opinion and trend.

>>9991691
>get told to take responsibility for yourself once

>>9992336
I fully agree with you. He has this very common smug face often found in Americans. He has all the self-confidence of a businessman while trying to maintain an intellectual persona. Lad's a shit.

>>9992341
He is not only a youtuber, though.

Some very salty buckos in this thread.

>>9991996
What "a life worth living" means depends on the individual you turbo brainlet. Peterson is an individualist.

>>9991585
>"Anybody that doesn't follow far Left wing ideologies is a Nazi."

You people have no sense of reality.

>>9991493
He's right you know.

>>9991477
>>9991480
>>9991471
>remember when his name first started to circulated
>/lit/ sucked his cock left and right
>now he's mainstream and known on reddit anons feel the need to discredit and disparage the very cock they sucked
Peterson is great as a bridge to Jung and in general in adding a whole new dimension to literary exploration and understanding.

>>9991455
Even as a Phil undergrad I could pick apart a lot of his understanding of philosophical figures. (Not a brag, the dude just really isn't a philosopher)

I think his knowledge of psychology is very sound, but I don't know enough to verify that.

And furthermore, having applied some of his advice to my own life, it did genuinely improve by quite some margin. A lot of his supporters are kinda cringey but I think the dude is genuinely a force for good with the advice he's giving to young men. It's not low-brow self help no matter how much his detractors want to claim it is. But it is a paradigm case of self help, so take it as it is.

Probably its best to swallow your narcissistic dignity, listen to what the dude has to say about looking to your temperament and balancing out your weaknesses, apply it to your own life and see what happens. Your time isn't so precious that you can't afford a few experiments in living.

Also actually read the thinkers he talks about for yourself, and make up your own mind about what they're saying, his readings aren't so much inaccurate as they are simplifications to make them more applicable to the everyday and to make them cohere a little better. Nietzsche was not a Christian who wanted you to sort yourself out, so don't think by watching Peterson you can get any more than a superficial insight into Friedrich's philosophy.

>>9991905
All I ever see is people complain about his fan base. Not his actual fan base.

>>9991455
His lectures are great, it's just his bizarre following and opinions on PoMo that throws people off

>>9991609
The dream of alchemy, the philosopher's stone, is one absolutizing your knowledge of the world, and eliminating the suffering.

The bible warns against such projects. In a way it is the original sin.

Leibniz perfect language was such a project. It was also no coincidence Newton was an alchemist. Modern science was driven by this dream.

Every modern ideology, be it liberalism, communism or fascism, is on of self-salvation.

As a balance we need Christianity to cultivate an openness in our worldview. We can't close ourselves to the transcendent.

>>9991455
Definitely don't watch his lectures. He can't focus on a single topic, he goes on tangents and you never learn what his original point was going to be.

I would assume his book is more focused, but I haven't read it.

>>9993183
>>9991609

Also, what happened to Marie Louise von Franz's "the way of the dream" on youtube? They were great, and they seemed to have disappeared...

>>9991571
Is this a parody of anti-postmodernists who claim that all postmodernists are crypto-communists who try to hide their communism with obscure concepts?

I especially like his superb lecture on how it is racist to notice the overrepresentation of Jews in positions of power and intellectual movements which had a net negative effect on the West.

Is Peterson actually an accelerationist psy-op?

Think about it - he has repeatedly said that his only issue with the trans (((movement))) is that he refuses to use invented pronouns and is against mandated speech.
He has no issue with trans people who simply want to change to the opposite and he even said that he would use their preferred pronouns so long as it was either he or she.

5 years ago this would have been a far-left position, normalizing transexualism.
The ONLY reason they introduced that absurd bill is to get people to accept "normal" transexuals.

>Well, look goys, he just wants to be a she, at least he isn't asking you to call him a wormkin right, now THAT would be crazy.

>>9993225
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTEdrZ7uD0Q
I liked them very much also. Looks like someone just uploaded them again. Downloading these just in case

>>9993380
Great! Thank you

>>9991541
>I can manipulate the dumb masses to do what I want, is this your "objective" good? I can make the majority of people literally do whatever I want, good or bad.

Well, actually, no you can't, but I commend you on so openly expressing the hipster power-fantasy delusion that is operating beneath the surface of 95% of /lit/ posts.
I work in construction, my boss has had this business in his family for 3 generations. I'd love to see a lisping fag like yourself "manipulate" him, lol. I only bring it up because it's easy to believe in your own magical omnipotence when you're sitting by yourself in a basement fapping. Go interact with real people and see how far you get with this horse shit.

>>9993317
>the arts is a position of power

How did this happen

>>9993527
Cultural hegemony

>>9993527

When electronic media made the infinite repeatability and rapid transmission of images possible.

>>9993340
He certainly said he wants to "accelerate" the diminishing enrollment in what he calls "postmodern-neomarxism-infected fields" of the humanities, in this speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4c-jOdPTN8

>he said that he would use their preferred pronouns so long as it was either he or she
When did he say this? I recall him refusing to speak in the hypothetical (on the question of "would you call someone XYZ pronoun if they asked you"), and saying only that he would negotiate with any reasonable and respectable person.

>>9991455
Don't advice from 4chins.

>>9993540
>>9993542
The postmodernists were right

>>9993549

He said he wouldn't be compelled to use a pronoun if someone was using it as an act of hostility.
However he has no problem calling a man "she."
Watch his participation on that Canadian talk show he's always on with Theryn Meyer.

Personally I don't care one way or another. A person like Theryn is obviously trying pretty hard. But even openly acknowledging that someone is technically a man and nevertheless agreeing to call them "she" was actually the liberal position 5 years ago.
Now it's apparently the conservative position.
All I'm noticing is that in the face of an absurd overreach on subjective identity, like animalkin, "normal" transexualism has somehow become acceptable in the process.

>>9993598
you have a point, never thought of that

>>9992336
What a non critisicm, born of a perception only twisted reprobates like yourself think is worth a shit.

>>9993939

It's called shit-posting.
It's a vampiric form of aggression.
He posts and pretends to be insufferably stupid. You're forced to read it and drain your energy on it.
Since nature abhors a vacuum, the hole made by his pseudo-stupidity must be balanced, and thus your intellectual energy is expended trying to restore balance, and thus your energy goes to him.

This speaks for itself

>>9993598
I hadn't seen that interview before, that was pretty interesting. That actually clarifies a lot about his position that I wasn't totally familiar with.

I predict that Western society is going to go deeper and deeper into "you can do whatever you want to yourself" territory with little to no resistance, all the way into the absurd, to the very limits of technology. In the name of "freedom" or something like that. I'm legitimately curious to see what will and will not be considered socially acceptable 20 years down the line.

how long till the feds burn down peterson's place of residence

>>9994177
wtf does this nigger do with $62k per month + his wage.

>>9991493
So is what Russia's population considered objectively good subjective, since we don't consider it good?

Or are you just a retard

>>9994251

He uses the Patreon money to rent the building and hire the camera crew for his bible lectures

>>9993512
Go read about behaviorism you dumb fuck

>>9994287

>go read about a discredited psychological theory to support my own argument for me.

huh,
it has really madeded me think.
BTW why don't you just manipulate me into agreeing with you lol? your magic powers don't work like that?

>>9994296
>he thinks manipulation is magic
Sad

>>9994251
Therapy

He's actually pretty good for young white men. When surrounded by a hurricane of anti-intellectual Trap culture, being told their skin color requires guilt, and everyone is generally nihilistic, a man like peterson, no matter how 'mainstream' he is, is tremendous medicine for their collective psyche. Young white men, because of leftist accelerationalism, are in danger of going full Waffen SS and the fact that there is a man who can captivate them who isn't a nazi or overtly bigoted is the best thing we as a society can hope for. He can reason out the emotional insanity provoked by postmodernists and leftists.

>Unironically /ourpseud/
>need him for stability

>>9994308

"Conditioning exists" is a hugely different statement than "I can manipulate anyone to do anything I want."
Are you a hypnosisfag by any chance? Starting to get that vibe.

>>9994341
>I can manipulate anyone to do anything I want
>anyone
>I can manipulate the dumb masses
?
Yes, with enough resources and power you can do that.
America is a good example, look around you nigger

>>9991477
He's not a philosopher

>>9991455
Self-Authoring is delusional. You are not the protagonist of reality. How he can promote individualism while being anti-pomo is one of the biggest self-deceptions I've seen in a 'popular thinker'.

Philosophy is not self-help, his demand for philosophy to have utility is short-sighted. But what else would you expect from a psychologist?

>>9991493
I love that people are shitting on this lad when he is actually objectively correct.

>>9991571
desu I love Peterson, but the only thing I don't like about him is that he constantly tries to shit on Nazis without knowing shit. He keeps talking about the holocaust like it actually happened and refers to Nazis as the pinnacle of all evil in humanity.
>>9992471
you forgot this picture

>>9994340
>No matter how mainstream he is

Holy shit. You are just summing up most of why /lit/ is buttmad at JP. It's funny because he isn't really even that popular. It's just now that he isn't underground you all have to take a serious, contrarian step back.

>>9994554
Why would you ever pursue philosophy if the goal was not to benefit you in some way? Are you really that much of a naive, intellectually arrogant faggot?

Also, the positive results from Self Authoring are proven.

>>9994340
This. Peterson represents a healthy reaction to those fomenting sociological ideas put forth by the likes of Foucault and other pomos. The alternative is the shit peddled by transhumanist fascists like Nick Land. Without Peterson or someone like him the reaction from gen z will be terrifying.


That being said:
Postmodernism does have theories that cohere with his epistemological arguments. The problem is that this man cannot differentiate between various subsets under the umbrella of Postmodernism. Social Constuctionalism is rightfully a target of criticism after Sokal fucked up em way back in the '90s. Now, however, the boogyman is cultural marxism, but in a sense that was even rejected by Baudrillard. Then again he tried gaslighting everyone.

>Baudrillard was the best troll

>>9991685
self-improvement doesn't need a goal. The process is a goal in of itself.
As the other anons have mentioned. Humans aren't meant to do nothing. We are meant to struggle and to fight.

Pick up your damn cross, bucko. And start cleaning your room.

>>9994594
>He keeps talking about the holocaust like it actually happened

>>9994554
>You are not the protagonist of reality
Y-you don't think someone would do that...would you? Just go on the internet, and be completely wrong.

>>9994632
The 6 million number that is often thrown around is a flat out lie. There is far too much evidence which counters the narrative that we were taught in school.
Tbh I'm not surprised that JBP hasn't really questioned it or discussed it. It's quite tabboo still.

>>9991493
Peterson says that the individual is more important than the collective.

>>9991571
>nazi
Yes I liked his book on the Jewish question he published. You know the one after his best seller on Eugenics and the Negro,

>>9994632
you know what sarcasm is?

>>9994872
who fucking said I was being sarcastic?
JBP talks about how mandated speech is bad, but has no issue that questioning the holocaust is illegal.
Granted that this is the prohibition of speech rather than the mandating of particular speech, but I feel he tends to be opposed to people forcing ideologies onto others, whereas he has no issue with the JQ

>>9994670
The individual learns through the collective. You could I guess learn from the collective and then throw off the reigns once you are learned. I think this is essentially what Stirner and Nietzsche believed.

>>9994265
Is Russia that dramatically different in day to day life? I am not claiming any certain group has reached a totally rational culture yet, I'm just saying we've come a long way and that we are at least doing some things right.

>>9992384
Its experience of humans that has led to the thing I am talking about.

>>9994251
He's putting it towards creating a type of online university because he sees modern universities as corrupt. I kind of hope he's successful, but I doubt it will catch on.

He is the best intro to philosophy for normies. He's great in terms of the depth/accessibility bargain, but at the same time pretty much none of the things he says can't be learned through more intensive study.

>>9995441
the best intro to philosophy for normies is philosophy 101 at their college, not some psychologists youtube channel, the people into peterson are all kekestani frogbois not normies

>>9993939
>twisted reprobates
>because I insulted your vapid pseduo-father for looking like an imbecile?
>>>/pol/
>>9994040
What a pretentious post.
Just shut the fuck up.

As much as he pretends to be Christian or a bastion of the West, Peterson is a through heathen. His recent appearance on Rogan's podcast, where he constantly refused to declare himself a "biological essentialist", despite the fact that he is precisely that, is a perfect example of this, as his position is the one that is obvious. Success, i.e. security, i.e. survival, is Peterson's only value; he has taken upon himself the worst aspects of Nietzsche and once again returned to the Essence, now called Life, which only the Magus is acquainted with. As your typical pagan, he'll make sure you know he can both wrestle bears *and* cry in public. Always awaiting violence, he contradicts himself and simplifies anything he touches.

>>9993527
Democracy

>>9995617
kys filthy kike

I've tried reading his book and it sucks. His lectures are ok although maybe not if you have a literary background. The further he gets away from talking about psychology the more pseud he gets.

>>9991471
He IS a Liberal capitalist you dunce, and a rather hardcore one at that.

>>9995694
t. Snownigger

youtu.be/jJTnbSQ-xNQ

this is the only thing you ever need to see by these two minds

I really don't think he understands Nietszche well enough but I haven't really read Jung so maybe I am missing his insights into the matter. However, the key point where I disagree with Pete is that "One ought to tell the truth" assuming that Truth is needs advocates and protectors; a kind of morality based around Honesty and good will towards the social foundations. I don't think any such morality is necessary and that it is still just a veil for Peterson own will to fame and recognition.

Jung is unfalsifiable garbage.

>>9993064
the comments section of the podcasts he does with Joe Rogan offer a window into the minds of his fanbase

>>9994177
>profound psychological ideas

what a hack

>>9996108

Why? He said he's lecturing about them, not coming up with them.

>>9996181
he's doing neither

>>9996187
t. Objective arbitrator of complexity in psychological notions

>>9996187

lol ok kid

Watch Bowden presentations instead

>>9991471
Yet he strangely does not believe in objective truth, or at the very least he believes in a very... bizarre conception of objective truth, all the while harping about how pernicious postmodernism is.

Make of that what you will.

>>9996857
Peterson is not contradictory, you simply aren't capable of understanding his higher level nuance. Honestly, I don't always fully understand it - he's a super intelligent guy. But I know from what he has said about SJWs and neo-Marxism that he can be trusted, so I'll take him at his word.

I would follow that man into the breach, he is the greatest mind of the century; and a warrior.

Something about Peterson that bugged me is that he seems to think snakes are universally evil creatures due to evolutionary psychology. In many religions there seem to be beneficial snakes as well. How does he reconcile this?

>>9996893

Stop making me doubt the fact that I like the man. This post is distasteful because you can take it as either blunt sarcasm or a serious /pol/ post.

>>9997130
>questioning human nature

Shut it down.

>>9996893

If he can't explain his ideas to normal people he doesn't understand them himself

>>9997163

But he can explain them, it's why he's become so massively popular so quickly.

>>9997169

It's because they want to be a part of something. Basic sociology.

>>9997130
Primitive people sacrificed to forces of nature to appease them. The proto-religious experience of awe is related to fear.
Primitive animistic religions will impersonate the demons in shamanic rituals. Impersonating nature to have control over nature.

Pharmakon is poison and medicine at the same time.

Peterson's whole shtick:
>Read the classics
>Sort yourself out, get a job, go to school, learn a trade
>Jung-lite
>Political opinions (opinions in general) are based on innate personality traits.
>You need one foot in chaos and the other in order. Go where you least wish to be, face your fears before they face you.

>>9997203

pretty solid advice

I guess if you're a pretentious pseud that can't take anything that isn't overtly deep, you wouldn't like him

>>9997203

>unironically using the word shtick

i want to say kys but i hate that acronym so i'll just say, uh, you're a douche?

>>9997212
>>9997203
Also
>Fuck Marxism

>>9997216
I'm not American and it was the first best word I thought of.
Sounds better than gimmick, gimmick is more negative to me.

>>9997180
You sound pretty subversive to me. Is your favorite philosopher a jolly old Kraut perchance??

>>9997163
you're confusing an ability to explain with people's willingness to understand

>>9991455

He's a communist that wants more people into the work force so his 2.7 million and 160k salary doesn't go sour.

>>9997260
Exactly. Human nature is simple, all you have to do is stop overthinking.

>>9996893
Peterson takes Freud seriously for fuck's sake.
You're a brainlet.

>>9997169
No, he's become massively popular because he tells people what they want to hear. Peterson is a glorified motivational speaker.

>muh Disney films

>>9997438

Maybe his ideas are what they wanted to hear, but never had a proper figure to look up to who can preach these ideas?

>>9997438
Also,
>muh Pepe
>muh fuck SJWs*
Peterson is merely riding a wave, nothing more.

(*) -- not that SJWs don't deserve all the shit they get

>>9997434
>>9997438

You just don't understand Peterson.

>>9997444
Yes, that's what I said, Peterson only says what people want to hear. A lot of empty platitudes and overly general truisms.
>muh chaos vs order
Oh gee, how insightful and useful.

>>9997455
I probably understand him better than you and 90% of his audience. Peterson is in the same league as Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc.
A witty sophist.

>>9997465

But it is useful, you pseud. His advice has real life applications and his self-authoring program is proven to be effective for many people.

Peterson might not be as intellectually stimulating as Nietzche or your favorite literary genius, but I respect him as an individual far more than your average /lit/ poster.

>>9997475
Dawkins is a world renowned biologist, Hitchens destroyed anyone who ever dared to contradict him, and if people just listened to Sam Harris we would have a reformed, peaceful and science-loving Islam (instead of the barbaric hoard we in fact have).

They are geniuses, you are a pathetic pseud and Peterson has awoken a generation of white men to a right-minded, rational and proud philosophy. Watch out!

>>9997514

mfw I agree with you

>>9991455
Why is there a thread about this faggot every fucking day?

>>9997475
Peterson is no idiot. Peterson is no charlatan. Peterson has merit, and has arguments for his stances, even if you find them disagreeable. You make him out to be a hack, when he is full of integrity. He puts up free lectures. He attends SJW demonstration to talk to the people demonstrating (even though they often just shout him down) He attended a hearing on bill 16, to argue against it dangerous precedent, and he argued well. He has good manners, and doesn't unfairly shit on people. He doesn't beat around the bush - he concedes that life is shit and the world is unfair and despairing, and then he tells you ways that you can get past this fact. He is very unlike you, Anon. My ass has no doubt that you wouldn't be able to hold your own against him.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by assuming that, generally, people don't like you

>>9997576
Peterson is the future, we are his liegemen.

>>9997514
>Hitchens destroyed anyone who ever dared to contradict him
He destroyed no one. He was great at rhetorics, appealing to the whims and emotions of his audience. Very similar to Peterson. Hitchens would deflect arguments instead of addressing them. An absolute master of the red herring.
Sam Harris is constantly equivocating and appealing to "common sense" without ever really thinking deeply about anything.
Dawkins is a mediocre biologist who's only famous for his evangelisation of atheism.

>you are a pathetic pseud
You probably work in a cinema.

>>9997494
The self-authoring program he keeps advertising is not Peterson's invention, and it has little to do with his shallow philosophising. You're not particularly discriminating are you?

>>9997592
Enjoy life on the wrong side of history lmao.

>>9997576
>Peterson hates SJWs and marches against them so he does no wrong in my eyes because I hate SJWs too
Your post in a nutshell.

>>>/v/

>>9997598
>is not Peterson's invention

You keep harping on this kind of thing but fail to understand that it's irrelevant. Is merit to you based only on invention, or practical application as well?

Fact is, Peterson has the wherewithal and will to apply a productive system to lazy, worthless chunk of western civilization that aren't doing themselves any favors. His merit is in this pursuit and it's a worthy one.

>>9997599

>mock people for believing in unproven metaphysical entities, heaven and hell
>believing in history with a 'wrong side'

my sides

>>9997629
I don't mock Heaven. I'm a Petersonite and we are the vanguard of Caucasian Christian Civilization.

You'll have less than your sides by the time we're done.

>>9992397
Peterson is Canadian.

>>9997651

I like it, anon. Good effort. Satirizing the worst parts of his fanbase is fun and we all enjoy a good time, every now and then.

But seriously, clean your room.

>>9997617
Dude, you're such a pathetic pseud drunk on the aura of a person. The fact that Peterson did not himself come up with the self-authoring program is completely relevant, since you used that to justify the validity of his sophistry.

Stop replying to me, you're a fucking brainlet.

>>9997651
>he doesn't know
Jordan is anti-white.
>"don't fall into identity politics"
>"you might win the game, but it would be their game you've won"
>if you fight your enemies using their weapons, you lose
>t. Jordan Peterson

Funny how Petersonbots prove at every turn that they don't understand a iota of the guy's stance. They just like him because
>fuck SJWs

>>9997667

Lmao imagine being this mad because of your own inability to recognize the merits of a person clearly doing good and helping out tons of people

You're the definition of a pseud

So, conclusion: Peterson is a hero for our times?

>>9994616
>Why would you ever pursue philosophy if the goal was not to benefit you in some way?

How could you even know that 'benefit' is possible? Why would you start engaging philosophy with this assumption? The search for answers might give unhappy answers, or maybe it'll have some utility.

People confuse philosophy for politics and psychology. Philosophy can be pure description, with no agenda, no program. Plato's theory of forms isn't useful, at least in any utilitarian sense of 'useful'. The whole field of logic is completely divorced from questions of utility (in the moral sense that utilitarians define utility). Aesthetics as well, need not serve any use (though it does often get applied in benevolent and nefarious ways by artists and advertisers).

>>9997744
>Plato's theory of forms isn't useful
Sure it is. Ever heard of category theory? Functional programming?

>>9997829
That's a simplistic notion of 'utility', utilitarians like peterson have a moral component to utility, that it serves a greater good.

Otherwise any idea is useful, because it could lead to the writing of a book. Even 'evil ideas' can form the basis for further action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIF6tZRxC6k&t=13m09s
>And go like this...
What did he mean by this?

>>9997873

why are leftist reactionaries so hellbent on making peterson look like a nazi?

>>9997611
Seems to me that you're most suited for /v/ between the two of us. The SJW part was not even 15% of my post.
le sort yourself out

>>9997880
>implying it isn't the alt-right butthurt that Peterson rightfully hates Nazis.

>DR. MEMER M. MEMERSON MEMEFESOR OF MEMEICAL MEMEOLOGY AT THE MEMEMEVERSITY OF MEMEONTO

>>9997989
An aspiring writer, I see

>>9995850
Holy fuck. This is prime hilarity..

>>9995588
Why would I go /pol/? I hate it there. I'm not a right winger or JP fan. Maybe calling you a twisted reprobate was too much but contentless criticisms like 'stupid face' and the use of words like 'pseuds' and 'mediocrities' are ugly things and betray more than you might recognize.

Where can I buy this book cheep?

>>9998316
I think you can get it for free on JBP's website.

>>9991455
I mean if you want to get into contemporary philisophy, sure. I'd advise you start somewhere else though.

>>9997475
A witty sophist without the wit, but also not actually a sophist.

>>9998330
peterson is not a philosopher (he is a psychologist) and is not an important figure in contemporary philosophy.

>>9993598

You don't leave your house or your college campus if you think the average American doesn't think lowly of trans people.

>>9998331
Why do you have that disposition towards him?
Are you certain you're not giving too little credit to the poor fellow

>>9997873
wtf i love natsoc now

After he warned me not to

I enjoy his lectures on Jung.

I can put it on in the background while playing vidya. He rambles a bit too much for focused watching.

>>9998330
Begin with the Romans.

>>9997873
Fuck, he's a mess. If Sam Harris is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person is like, what the hell is that?

>>9998176

Joycean, even.

>>9998400
Did you watch from the beginning?

>>9998407

It's a 20 minute video and he's a shitposting faggot.
What do you think?

>>9991455
Yes. Watching his lectures convinced me that 4chan is cancer. And I mean that beyond the "haha ironic joke" level. This place will be your downfall so you better sort yourself out.

>>9991455
>So what's the conclusion on this guy?

shitty yootoob self-help guru.

Don't give him any money.


>.......

>>9998418
>haha ironic joke
We're all serious, this place is like meth, you know it's not good for you but you don't really care if you can get your next fix.

>>9998418

especially hopeless are the reprobates who get caught up in the "culture" of 4chan and take that seriously

Peterson is a psychologist, and is rather good at what he does, and most of 4chan is in clear need of one

>>9998418

4chan is cancer because it's filled with autistic little resentful fuckers, but it's a necessary cancer in that it breaks up the mainstream behemoth by injecting a little bit of chaos into the purveying ideology.
A lot of you fags who have been on here since you were 4 and started jacking it to hardcore anal prolapse by the time you were 7 can't see what this place is really about sometimes.
4chan can actually be a healing mechanism but for it to work in that manner there is a very small window in which you must stumble upon it. Too early and you end up really fucked up, too late and you've already been claimed and sacrificed on the alter of the normie gods.

>>9991571
Theres literally nothing wrong with being a Neo nazi

>>9998407
As opposed to starting half way through? Yes, I did.

>>9998417
Did I upset you, sweetie?

>>9991455
OP, the conclusion of all guys is that you should be open to watching their lectures and reading their books. Let their work speak for itself, and judge it based on its merits or lack there of. If after hearing them out you decide their views are nonsense, then feel free to disregard.

>>9998440
then summarize it.

>>9998421
You haven't watched his videos

>>9998436

I discovered it at 23 and I'm getting ready to leave by 26. I only visit 4 boards by now (/lit/, /tg/, /ic/, and /fa/)

>>9998400
What do you mean by "mess"
Are you saying that he has a way of jumping from thought to thought, appearing a bit erratic. Or do you mean he doesn't know what he is talking about?

>>9998463
He's very erratic and flailing at strawman
. At least you can follow Harris' thoughts (as uninspiring as they are).

>>9991455
Admiral: wants to save the world from nihilism.

Sad: Chooses the wrong path of doing so, namely corrupting truth itself as a concept.

Bonus: Highly memetic in a ranine fashion, entertaining, not original but reintroduces concept the kids that make up his audience have never heard of and in that way at least lures an audience into some amount of intellectualism that wouldn't have otherwise.

>>9998474
but the postmodernists and cultural marxists, bro

>>9998474
Erratic, I will grant you. Could you point out the strawmen?

>>9998486
He employs "postmodernist" as a catch-all term. Who exactly is he referring to?

Stinks of boogemanism.

>>9998486

He conducts his analyses on the archetypal and societal level so therefore he's "flailing at strawmen" because he isn't railing against a single individual person.
It's a brainlet objection.

>>9991534
That's not what objective means.

>>9995377
same, I truly wish him well but taking on the Universities is too tall a task

>>9995377
it's probably just some shitty diploma mill. i'm not getting my hopes up.

>>9998527
Don't worry brother, he has us. And we are Legion.

>>9998502
The Right finds chickens erotic.

>>9998316
nowhere

>>9998373
I say he's a sophist because he isn't. As far as he is an intellectual he is sincere and makes some sense and that is admirable. He isn't what I'd call witty or scathing though, and that doesn't mean much anyhow.

I'm not sure Peterson's vision of the utility of an online university is entirely coherent.

He has two very good points which, when taken by themselves, are powerful, but when combined, produce an element of contradiction.

He says that the point of the liberal arts and humanities is primarily to learn how to speak thoughts into words. As someone who fell for the STEM meme and has no voice, I think this is a powerful message that we need to relearn.

He also says that the technology is there for an online university and the only issue is accreditation. It's true that we can educate people remotely.

However, should I pursue a humanities education over the internet, how am I becoming practiced in what Peterson says is its primary purpose, namely, speaking?

>>9998563
Chat rooms, forums, and mics exist for online communication.

>>9998459

but what do you do without the constant stimulus of a fast moving discussion

>>9998574

First of all I'm specifically talking about speaking not writing. They both use language but they are two radically different acts.
Secondly I don't think that talking on Skype or whatever perfectly replicates speaking in person. I really think something is missing. There's a sort of magic projection that takes place in which you're able to broadcast from the safety of your home. It's not the same as speaking in the agora and it's certainly not the same as addressing a crowd.
I was hesitant to characterize the difference in this way because I don't think "danger" is the primary thing of importance. I think it has more to do with being.

>>9993064
His fanbase has a subreddit thats a good place to casually observe idiots

>>9998563

You're pretty much correct. His plan of an online university will fail to live up the standards we expect out of someone who plans to go against the decadence of current higher learning institutions.

I have no real opinion on whether it will get better or not for humanities, but I'd like to hope it will one day, and this whole radical postmodernism disease will be cured someday.

>>9998563
>>9998599
I'm not sure how you could even quantify speaking itself for assessment purposes. It's so broad that it must be something you work on and apply as you speak and communicate on a daily basis.

You reminded me of this guide to writing essays that Peterson made for his own students which might give a clue how to approach it
https://jordanbpeterson.com/docs/430_docs/Template.docx

>>9991484
>intelligence is a good roadmap to being
How's the girlfriend? Is she hot? Will she be a good mother, or just a loving mother?

>>9991922
Peterson talks about that too.
All the time.
"You can define it"
"Look at what other people around you are doing and do that"
"Set the highest ideal"
"Learn how to be the kind of person that can play the greatest number of social games possible"

You could exhaust a life on any one of those.

>>9991996
Observe the world around you and make that fucking decision yourself, faggot
Do you need your daddy figures to do EVERYTHING for you?

>>9991471
You are a legitimate autist if you believe in ethical subjectivism.

>>9992336
He taught at Harvard. What have you done?

>>9993527
It's always been the case. Emotional engineering has always been around in some form or another.

>>9991892
>Humans are adapted to transform chaos into order
>Except those bloody postmodernists who just want to sow disorder
>Also totalitarianism isn't real order guys

>>9995617
He has never claimed to literally believe in God

>>9996857
He believes in Nietzsche's conception of truth, which simplistically can be boiled down to "whatever works" or "whatever achieves the highest goal"

>>9997203
missing all the biology and neuroscience
watch his class lectures

>>9999088
Actual argument:
>Humans are hard wired for a balance between order and disorder
>Totalitarianism is the result of excessive order
>Post-modernism is the result of excessive disorder

>>9999088

the whole dogma of postmodernism is that whites are evil for being dominant and that they seek to uproot whites and destabilize their society in order to uplift others

if that's not chaos I don't know what is

Ok so there are two Petersons.

There is middle aged Peterson where he was dadfat with a beard and dark hair. Then there is late middle aged boomer Peterson.

The first Peterson is like that guy who lived two houses down from you when you were growing up in suburbia. He had a nice family that had no neurotic symptoms. They were all capable of expressing their emotions and talked with each other and weren't insecure. Everyone wanted to be in their family. The son was the coolest kid in the neighborhood and you had a crush on the daughter. His yard had the plushest grass in the whole suburb and the road in front of his house just got brand new pavement that was smooth for xtreme sports. Every summer you went to their yard and felt the morning dew on your barefeet and played with the neighborhood friends. When Peterson came home from work at 5:30 it was like your own dad was coming home. When you had to go back home at night you were bitterly disappointed. Your own dad was an alcoholic who abused your mother and screamed at you. For the rest of your life you remembered the sound of fear in your mother's voice as she pleaded with him to stop, wondering if tonight would finally be the night he went too far. No one talked other than to express stifled formalities. The only care you got was from fictional anime and video game characters. Sometimes at night you'd go for a walk by yourself through the neighborhood, and you might stop outside of Peterson's house and see the christmas tree lights shining through the front window.

>>9991493
wtf i love superhero movies now

>>9991922
self improvement is the only activity that isn't painstaking you mongrel cunt everything else is suffering. How are people so stupid to not understand something so simple

>>9999092
Precisely.

>>9999121

>>9999121
and the second?

Not sure why anyone takes this nazi seriously, he's been thoroughly destroyed.

>>9999374
Are you being ironic?
That post is from neogaf lol.

>>9999378
>This is what peterson babies believe

>ctrl + f
>he's pretty entry level but it's good because he shows young people to the next level like freud, tolstoy
>140 results

What is the /mu/ /lit/ cross-over? It's astonishing no one points out how painful it is to comprehend thinking like this.

>>9999374
delusional
evil

>>9999374

jesus christ that post is cringey, the fucking leaps that guy takes to get from point a to b are astounding.

>>9999433

the people on neogaf are a good casestudy of your-brain-on-ideology.
the combination of smug self-righteousness and mental retardation is incredible to behold.

>>9999374
I got excited about the Hitler and order and cleanliness part as well desu. Increased my liking for him.

>>9991480
>>9991477
>>9991471
why is lit full of pseuds

>>9997438
>stop being a pathetic ideologue and fix your life
>Telling people what they want to hear

Pick one.

>>10000091
He claims to have the answers and preaches them in a way anyone dumber than him would submit to immediately.

>>9999454
Oh yeah, and lit is just free from ideological identitarian frauds eh?

nothing was actually wrong with that post, if anything was, explain why

>>10000118

Compared to fucking neogaf, /lit/ might as well be Periclean Athens.

>>10000118
>hitler cleaned his room so if you like clean rooms youre a nazi

>>10000118

I actually started to explain what was wrong with it and after reaching the text limit I think it might just be easier for you to explain what's right about it.

>>10000182

Room cleaning is a telltale symptom the the authoritarian's need to dominate his surroundings.

>>9997679
this is a great shitpost

>>9991478
>a lot of people have the same views
This is the absolute HEIGHT of reasoning that moralists can come up with. Unbelievable.

>>9999374

hard to take this kind of post seriously when it's criticizing Peterson of having both good and terrible ideas, and then being mired in exactly the same situation.

I can see there being a legitimate grievance against him for not putting his foot down more on the dipshit alt-righters and all the other variants of white supremacy that keep trying to attach themselves tohim, however there's so many logic leaps here that it's astounding, and frankly seems dishonest and insidious

the idea that the vast majority of his listeners are alt-righters is absolutely absurd, but the idea that there could be a group of white supremacists who are listening to him to genuinely improve themselves and get out of their hateful rhetoric, and that's being attacked by leftist shitsmears like this because they would rather simply kill all of them for making bad judgments in their life is appalling

>>10000964
>the idea that there could be a group of white supremacists who are listening to him to genuinely improve themselves and get out of their hateful rhetoric, and that's being attacked by leftist shitsmears like this because they would rather simply kill all of them for making bad judgments in their life is appalling
appalling and ludicrous

>>10001375

is it really? "punch a nazi" is steadily being normalized, and it isn't even a slow process

slippery slope, my man

>>10001386
yeah I'm sure the guys with the tiki torches and richard spencer were trying to get out of their hateful rhetoric
fuck off shill

>>10001386
If I can shoot rabbits, I can shoot fascists.

>>10001409

>comparing those hateful fucks to a few people standing to the side of a peterson lecture who might be having second-thoughts about their far-right views

you're so much of a dipshit that you've actually caused me to technically defend some white supremacist assholes, so bravo I guess

>>10001418
lol you're the one who brought "punch a nazi" into the convo and guess where that happens - nazi rallies
nobody is punching people for listening to peterson
you're a slimeball wordtwister

>>10001437

peterson himself is getting heavily criticized by leftist slimeballs like you for not actively kicking out the radical right-wingers having second thoughts at his rally

that was the crux of my point, and that's already an unacceptable action

why should he police so much when his main objective is giving out lectures. the more radicals that hear it and become de-radicalized, the better

>>10000101
wrong he doesn't say he has the answers
youre just another pseud who makes his opinion based on what other lit-tards say

>>10001468
stop bullshitting, being criticized isn't getting punched
the "crux of your point" is that you're another retard who can't deal with being shit on and wants to stop people from doing so while pretending to care about free speech (for me and not for thee)
and pretending that the radicals at his rally are "having second thoughts" is a wonderful piece of wordtwisting, because how would you know? no way, of course.

btw I love how you're crying about the slippery slope of free speech possibly turning into punches but when someone is promoting ethnic cleansing and genocide the slippery slope from words to actions somehow doesn't even enter your mind, you even protect them

>>9999999
>>10000000

>>10001517

what utter nonsense

come back when you actually want to have a dialogue

>>10001574
the only nonsense is you crying about jbp being criticized you pussy

>>10001517
>and pretending that the radicals at his rally are "having second thoughts" is a wonderful piece of wordtwisting, because how would you know? no way, of course.

pretending there aren't any radicals being dissuaded from his work to sort people out is intellectually dishonest, here's just one example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/6ynrbv/deep_down_i_understand_the_beauty_of_cultures_and/

>you even protect them

way to twist his intentions

he only did that because you're a total tardo who can't see the value of letting peterson actually do what he wants to do in your ultimate quest to vilify anyone to the right of you

you're a total pseud cunt

>>10001601
>pretending there aren't any radicals being dissuaded from his work to sort people out is intellectually dishonest
pretending that they constitute the majority of the altright crowd that listens to him is even more intellectually dishonest

>he only did that because you're a total tardo who can't see the value of letting peterson actually do what he wants to do
lol, "letting"
the man is free to do what he wants to do but that's not enough for him, he wants people from all walks of life to clap for him and suck his cock

>>10001632
>pretending that they constitute the majority of the altright crowd that listens to him is even more intellectually dishonest

nowhere was this stated

more intellectual dishonesty from you

>he man is free to do what he wants to do but that's not enough for him, he wants people from all walks of life to clap for him and suck his cock

lol this is just pathetic

why do you have such a profound hate-boner for the man?

>>9991480
this

>>10001638
>nowhere was this stated
I thought it was implied
because otherwise, why are you crying yourself to sleep over this tiny minority of people who aren't even getting punched, just criticized

>>10001638
>more intellectual dishonesty from you

I win. He said it, he only went and said it!

>>10001680
>>10001677

wat

>>9991455
checked
His lectures (especially his personality course) were useful to me. He has his way of dissecting things, and his research on personality is interesting and doesn't seem very flawed in terms of what he's actually trying to study. It helped me understand myself and my own personality better, which is useful if there are things you don't like about yourself.
Conclusion: his lectures are good and interesting. Stay away from 10 minute youtube clips that are subject to being meme'd.

>>10001684
Every time a Petersonite gets mad, I set my watch, and just wait for them to use the "intellectual dishonesty" buzz phrase. Every. Single. Time.

It's exactly the same for Sam Harris' crowd.

>>10001702

but you quoted a post that said it for the third time in the thread, the preceding use by being a leftist

are you on drugs? maybe you're that idiot who wanted to blow his brains out in front of the cop who was babysitting him

>>10001684
not the same anon, anon

>>10001720
>the preceding use by being a leftist
this is almost unintelligible but I'll presume you're referring to my use of the term
I used it because the petersonfag used it
it's clear if you follow the convo but that's too hard I guess

>>10001720
Stop being a...

(drumbeat)

sophist.

>>10001729

you're incredibly incoherent while also being quite aggressive

you'll excuse me if my interest in this conversation has plummeted

>>9997530
Was this from the naked ape debate?

>>10001737
>incoherent
nope, that's your signature trait

>>10001766

your entire point was lost because you were too busy "btfoing petersonites" since you seem to hate the man and his listeners so much

you are incoherent lol

>>10001781
the point is there, you're just salty

>>10001802

nothing to be salty about

Peterson is reviving conservatism, slowly but surely. That's a win in my books.

The day ridiculous leftist children are ousted from power is the day humanity is victorious.

Now go clean your room.

>>10001834

>>9998459
fag

>>9999066
>"Look at what other people around you are doing and do that"
Drugs and sex?

>>9991455
He's a tit.

>>9991455
He's ideologically consistent and provides excellent, relevant social commentary.
Cites excellent philosophical works in academically appropriate ways.

>>9998312
>t. pseud

>>9999071
>He taught at Harvard.
Meaningless.

>>10001975
>>10001951

pseuds

>>9998529
He's stated before that the goal for the exams will be to fail most of the students, and that the rarity of a diploma is what grants it a large part of its value.

peterson is just a bonzo buddy fuck scam. Keep your pants, dorks. I'll laugh when we hear the truth about nashville.

This is webm is what peterson actually believes.

>>10002633
Alright, now that I've stopped laughing at that webm
>(MOANING)
How exactly do you think Peterson has anything to do with that? Peterson believes in marriage, in being orderly, he even encourages people not to watch porn let alone have... weird... semi-sexual actions with trees and rocks. In fact I can't think of ANYONE who thinks like that freaky Swede. He's like a circa late-'60s hippy in its final form at 100% full power who loves nature SO much they want to tie it up in their sound-proofed basement so as to rape it several times a day and force it to breed offspring which will likewise be fucked and bred. Sort of like that Austrian Fritzl guy with his daughter and grandchildren if he got to keep going for another 5-10 years. I bet he could have given himself great grandchildren.

>>9996893
this is a very nice b8 haha

>>10002633
what the fuck

>>9991493
welcome to the hivemind fellow consumer.

>>10003475
Wrong.
Stop lying anon.

>>10003589
You don't want to actually discuss the matter?

>>10003475
I want a source for Peterson being against sex with rocks. Because I've read Maps of Meaning 20+ times, and I know for certain that self-authoring is the same as fornicating with vegetation.

>>9992336
>I hate his face
Great argument.

>>10003659
I've never read that book, though in truth I'm quite interested in checking it out.