/lit/ - Literature

>>15170320
I would be careful about starting with Shankara, he is extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (he's called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads rather than Shankara's 8th century AD quasi-buddhism.

Cryptobuddhism since Advaita is generally considered by scholars and even by other Hindus to be a massive ripoff of Mahayana Buddhism

>>15145802
Did you say crypto-buddhism? Did you know Advaita is considered to be mostly a ripoff of Mahayana Buddhism by virtually all scholars, and has been called "crypto-buddhism" for a thousand years by Hindus themselves, right from its very inception?

>>15141875
Here's an overview of the modern scholarship on Advaita in case you are interested in it specifically. It is interesting but you have to be careful about Hindus online trying to sell you their system as if it's the only system, they are notorious for this.

>>15136489
Why does every single mainstream scholar agree that Shankara's Advaita Vedanta was essentially a synthesis of 1st millennium CE Buddhism, both its philosophy and its monastic institutions, with older Vedanta texts?

Why did every Hindu in India outside of Advaita immediately call Advaita "crypto-Buddhism," even before modern scholarship agreed with this accusation?

Why was Advaita a minority compared to bhakti, dualist, and qualified non-dualist perspectives until the 1800s, when westernized, English-speaking, deist-influenced Indians like Ram Roy and Vivekananda re-popularized it as ecumenical Hinduism (and even themselves admitted it was essentially the same as Buddhism)?

Cope with this

advaita is crypto-buddhism, if you want real hinduism you have to go back to schools that weren't created in 850AD

only advaita cultists deny this because of course they think their religion is the original religion. the few indians who actually follow advaita in india are borderline korean hyperwar enthusiasts, they think advaita is 50,000 years old and shankara lived on the moon

>>15124445
advaita is cryptobuddhism

Threadly reminder that
1- Almost all scholars and almost all actual Hindus agree that Shankara's non-dualism (called advaita) is "crypto-buddhism," meaning it's a ripoff of Mahayana Buddhism. Not just the philosophy of Mahayana either, but the institutions and culture as well. Pic related.

2- No matter how much guenonfag (pizza be upon him) denies this, or claims he is not buttmad about it, he is very buttmad about it. All advaitins are. If you want to make an advaitin buttmad, remind everyone of his crypto-buddhism. They hate it.

3- Not only was advaita just ripoff buddhism, its modern forms were heavily westernized and revived by the most embarrassing form of western occultism (Blavatsky's Theosophy), which guenonfag (pizza be upon him) also hates and is buttmad about:

4- Guenon's principal follower, Frithjof Schuon, started a cringey sex cult where he fucked his cult members' wives and fondled their prepubescent daughters, usually in front of other children. The current unofficial head of the perennialist movement, Nasr, has never repudiated Schuon (who was his teacher), and continues to praise him. Perennialists hate being reminded of this as well. Guenonfag used to post lots of Schuon and Nasr until people began talking about this, and now he claims to dislike Schuon.

If you dislike the Guenon spam, spread the word that advaita is crypto-buddhism. Guenonfag gets ridiculously mad every time he sees it.

>>15083520
this, also this is why virtually everyone for a thousand years has called shankara a crypto-buddhist. pic related

>>15083529
what happened?

Threadly reminder that
1- Almost all scholars and almost all actual Hindus agree that Shankara's non-dualism (called advaita) is "crypto-buddhism," meaning it's a ripoff of Mahayana Buddhism. Not just the philosophy of Mahayana either, but the institutions and culture as well. Pic related.

2- No matter how much guenonfag (pizza be upon him) denies this, or claims he is not buttmad about it, he is very buttmad about it. All advaitins are. If you want to make an advaitin buttmad, remind everyone of his crypto-buddhism. They hate it.

3- Not only was advaita just ripoff buddhism, its modern forms were heavily westernized and revived by the most embarrassing form of western occultism (Blavatsky's Theosophy), which guenonfag (pizza be upon him) also hates and is buttmad about:

4- Guenon's principal follower, Frithjof Schuon, started a cringey sex cult where he fucked his cult members' wives and fondled their prepubescent daughters, usually in front of other children. The current unofficial head of the perennialist movement, Nasr, has never repudiated Schuon (who was his teacher), and continues to praise him. Perennialists hate being reminded of this as well. Guenonfag used to post lots of Schuon and Nasr until people began talking about this, and now he claims to dislike Schuon.

If you dislike the Guenon spam, spread the word that advaita is crypto-buddhism. Guenonfag gets ridiculously mad every time he sees it.

>>15067021
Here's a picture with the stances of the major contemporary scholars on the topic.

>>15059260
I hope you don't mind if I limit myself to pointing out the places where you disagree with the vast majority of scholarship on these topics, as well as other Hindus, rather than actually trying to argue with you. If anyone is interested in how the Advaita interpretation of the Upanishads is seen by most scholars and most Hindus, they can refer to pic related.

>Advaita is not confused
>[Advaita is] the closest to the actual ideas of the Upanishads
>the realist Vedanta schools [are in error]
The other schools of Vedanta would strongly disagree, of course. Simply stating it doesn't make it true.

>Advaita is not influenced by Mahayana
This is contrary to the opinion of nearly every scholar of the topic in the last 150 years.

>The primary Upanishads do not teach contradictory doctrines but teach one consistent doctrine
This is of course not the opinion of scholars. Even many Indians would not claim this. Many religious Indians do take the Upanishads as revealed doctrine, to be simply obeyed, but many more educated Indians share the scholarly view (some being scholars themselves) that the Upanishads are a complex textual tradition evolving over centuries.

>the plain meaning of these verses.
Stating that something is "the plain meaning" does not magically make your interpretation correct. So far we have you saying that the "plain meaning" supports your interpretation, and in pic related we have many Hindus and many scholars saying the "plain meaning" flatly contradicts your interpretation. Clearly it's meaningless to simply repeat "but plainly I'm right about which one is the plain meaning!" All that gets you is an infinite regress.

You're entitled to your strong opinions about what is "obviously" correct, but many don't agree with you. Myself, mainstream scholarship, and many Hindus included. Pic related.

read this image before reading guenon

Threadly reminder that
1- Almost all scholars and almost all actual Hindus agree that Shankara's non-dualism (called advaita) is "crypto-buddhism," meaning it's a ripoff of Mahayana Buddhism. Not just the philosophy of Mahayana either, but the institutions and culture as well. Pic related.

2- No matter how much guenonfag (pizza be upon him) denies this, or claims he is not buttmad about it, he is very buttmad about it. All advaitins are. If you want to make an advaitin buttmad, remind everyone of his crypto-buddhism. They hate it.

3- Not only was advaita just ripoff buddhism, its modern forms were heavily westernized and revived by the most embarrassing form of western occultism (Blavatsky's Theosophy), which guenonfag (pizza be upon him) also hates and is buttmad about:

4- Guenon's principal follower, Frithjof Schuon, started a cringey sex cult where he fucked his cult members' wives and fondled their prepubescent daughters, usually in front of other children. The current unofficial head of the perennialist movement, Nasr, has never repudiated Schuon (who was his teacher), and continues to praise him. Perennialists hate being reminded of this as well. Guenonfag used to post lots of Schuon and Nasr until people began talking about this, and now he claims to dislike Schuon.

If you dislike the Guenon spam, spread the word that advaita is crypto-buddhism. Guenonfag gets ridiculously mad every time he sees it.

>>15016214
>Shankara

Shankara is crypto-Buddhism and not really a good intro to Indian philosophy. I'd go for something closer to the Vedas, like Ramanuja or Bhaskara, even Madhva. Advaita can be interesting as a soft intro to Mahayana though, which it's 95% drawn from.

reminder that advaita is a tiny minority position mostly proselytized by people outside india and outside hinduism, with huge roots in western theosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Theosophy

>Goodrick-Clarke wrote that "educated Indians" were particularly impressed by the Theosophists' defense of their ancient religion and philosophy in the context of the growing self-consciousness of the people, directed against the "values and beliefs of the European colonial powers." Prof. Stuckrad noted the wave of solidarity which covered the Theosophists in India had powerful "political implications." He wrote, citing in Cranston's book, that, according to Prof. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher and President of India, the Theosophists "rendered great service" by defending the Hindu "values and ideas"; the "influence of the Theosophical Movement on general Indian society is incalculable."[57]

>Bevir wrote that in India Theosophy "became an integral part of a wider movement of neo-Hinduism", which gave Indian nationalists a "legitimating ideology, a new-found confidence, and experience of organisation." He stated Blavatsky, like Dayananda Sarasvati, Swami Vivekananda, and Sri Aurobindo, "eulogised the Hindu tradition", however simultaneously calling forth to deliverance from the vestiges of the past. The Theosophical advocacy of Hinduism contributed to an "idealisation of a golden age in Indian history." The Theosophists viewed traditional Indian society as the bearer of an "ideal religion and ethic."[26]

>In Prof. Olav Hammer's opinion, Blavatsky, trying to ascribe the origin of the "perennial wisdom" to the Indians, united "two of the dominant Orientalist discourses" of hers era.

guenon's primary disciple was also a pedo who ran a sex cult in the USA
>On October 11th 1991, Frithjof Schuon, the leader of an international religious order, was indicted on the felony charge of child molestation. committed under "cult pressure and influence". The indictment, passed down by a five member Grand Jury, headed by Lucy Cherbas, stated:
>"that Frithjof Schuon... did perform fondling or touching [on three girls] 15 years of age, 14 years of age and 13 years of age, respectively, with the intent to arouse or satisfy sexual desires of Frithjof Schuon, in violation of I.C. 35-42 43. [And that] said persons were compelled to submit to touching by force or imminent threat of force, to wit: by undue cult influences and cult pressures, in violation of 35-42-4-8."

>Jesus Garcia Varela, a high ranking inner circle member of the cult, had been investigated by the Louisville Police in 1991 for nude photos of his 2 young daughters. He escaped prosecution of this episode by claiming that it was a common practice in Spain to visually record a girl's puberty.

>Michael Fitzgerald's son was present at the Gatherings. The boy, then perhaps 14, had been made to watch his mother and her sister, Jennifer Casey, dance nude for Schuon at one of the Gatherings.

>>15018888
no really, this is actually the opinion of scholars etc. pic related, basically everybody outside of a minority of advaita cultists acknowledge that it's a buddhist spinoff sect from the 9th century.

>>15014016
Sorry, virtually every scholar agrees that advaita is cryptobuddhism. Its modern form was also extremely influenced by Theosophy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Theosophy

>Goodrick-Clarke wrote that "educated Indians" were particularly impressed by the Theosophists' defense of their ancient religion and philosophy in the context of the growing self-consciousness of the people, directed against the "values and beliefs of the European colonial powers." Ranbir Singh, the "Maharajah of Kashmir" and a "Vedanta scholar", sponsored Blavatsky and Olcott's travels in India. Sirdar Thakar Singh Sandhanwalia, "founder of the Singh Sabha," became a master ally of the Theosophists.[55][note 16] Prof. Stuckrad noted the wave of solidarity which covered the Theosophists in India had powerful "political implications." He wrote, citing in Cranston's book, that, according to Prof. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher and President of India, the Theosophists "rendered great service" by defending the Hindu "values and ideas"; the "influence of the Theosophical Movement on general Indian society is incalculable."[57]

>Bevir wrote that in India Theosophy "became an integral part of a wider movement of neo-Hinduism", which gave Indian nationalists a "legitimating ideology, a new-found confidence, and experience of organisation." He stated Blavatsky, like Dayananda Sarasvati, Swami Vivekananda, and Sri Aurobindo, "eulogised the Hindu tradition", however simultaneously calling forth to deliverance from the vestiges of the past. The Theosophical advocacy of Hinduism contributed to an "idealisation of a golden age in Indian history." The Theosophists viewed traditional Indian society as the bearer of an "ideal religion and ethic."[26]

>In Prof. Olav Hammer's opinion, Blavatsky, trying to ascribe the origin of the "perennial wisdom" to the Indians, united "two of the dominant Orientalist discourses" of hers era.

daily reminder that all modern scholars, and almost all indians themselves, agree that advaita is "cryptobuddhism" (ripoff mahayana buddhism)

The scariest thing about Guenonfag is that he constantly switches between the worst shitpost spamming the board has ever seen and having 500-page long arguments with someone. He claims not to be the one spamming, but when he switches between the two (even in a brand new thread) the IP count doesn't change.

Daily reminder to post that advaita is crypto-buddhism. He hates it because it's the standard response to his internet cult anywhere it goes, and he thought people here were unfamiliar with it. It's the Lord Xenu scientology scifi shit of internet neovedantists, they absolutely hate being reminded of it.

>>15011738
This. The term is "pracchana bauddha" (hidden buddhist). Even advaitins call Shankara that, and admit he was hugely influenced by Mahayana Buddhism, among other things.

A few uneducated Hindu nationalists claim otherwise, but see pic related. It's the overwhelming consensus.

>>15011966
Not much difference.

The only remaining advaitins left in India are the lingering remnants of theosophy-influenced neovedanta. They are almost entirely upper class westernized expats who are barely Indian themselves. There's a reason why most advaita adherents don't live in India and aren't Indian. It's not Hindu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Theosophy

>Goodrick-Clarke wrote that "educated Indians" were particularly impressed by the Theosophists' defense of their ancient religion and philosophy in the context of the growing self-consciousness of the people, directed against the "values and beliefs of the European colonial powers." Ranbir Singh, the "Maharajah of Kashmir" and a "Vedanta scholar", sponsored Blavatsky and Olcott's travels in India. Sirdar Thakar Singh Sandhanwalia, "founder of the Singh Sabha," became a master ally of the Theosophists.[55][note 16] Prof. Stuckrad noted the wave of solidarity which covered the Theosophists in India had powerful "political implications." He wrote, citing in Cranston's book, that, according to Prof. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher and President of India, the Theosophists "rendered great service" by defending the Hindu "values and ideas"; the "influence of the Theosophical Movement on general Indian society is incalculable."[57]

>Bevir wrote that in India Theosophy "became an integral part of a wider movement of neo-Hinduism", which gave Indian nationalists a "legitimating ideology, a new-found confidence, and experience of organisation." He stated Blavatsky, like Dayananda Sarasvati, Swami Vivekananda, and Sri Aurobindo, "eulogised the Hindu tradition", however simultaneously calling forth to deliverance from the vestiges of the past. The Theosophical advocacy of Hinduism contributed to an "idealisation of a golden age in Indian history." The Theosophists viewed traditional Indian society as the bearer of an "ideal religion and ethic."[26]

>In Prof. Olav Hammer's opinion, Blavatsky, trying to ascribe the origin of the "perennial wisdom" to the Indians, united "two of the dominant Orientalist discourses" of hers era.

If you like Advaita, you're just a Buddhist with Atman tacked on. Just be a Buddhist, it has much richer epistemology and you don't have to associate with western theosophists and live in constant denial about being a fake Hindu living in Florida.

Daily reminder: Shankara fags are Westernized Theosophyfags in disguise. Real Hindus hate them. Shankara threads are pushing crypto-buddhist Theosophy.

The only remaining advaitins left in India are the lingering remnants of theosophy-influenced neovedanta. They are almost entirely upper class westernized expats who are barely Indian themselves. There's a reason why most advaita adherents don't live in India and aren't Indian. It's not Hindu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Theosophy

>Goodrick-Clarke wrote that "educated Indians" were particularly impressed by the Theosophists' defense of their ancient religion and philosophy in the context of the growing self-consciousness of the people, directed against the "values and beliefs of the European colonial powers." Ranbir Singh, the "Maharajah of Kashmir" and a "Vedanta scholar", sponsored Blavatsky and Olcott's travels in India. Sirdar Thakar Singh Sandhanwalia, "founder of the Singh Sabha," became a master ally of the Theosophists.[55][note 16] Prof. Stuckrad noted the wave of solidarity which covered the Theosophists in India had powerful "political implications." He wrote, citing in Cranston's book, that, according to Prof. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher and President of India, the Theosophists "rendered great service" by defending the Hindu "values and ideas"; the "influence of the Theosophical Movement on general Indian society is incalculable."[57]

>Bevir wrote that in India Theosophy "became an integral part of a wider movement of neo-Hinduism", which gave Indian nationalists a "legitimating ideology, a new-found confidence, and experience of organisation." He stated Blavatsky, like Dayananda Sarasvati, Swami Vivekananda, and Sri Aurobindo, "eulogised the Hindu tradition", however simultaneously calling forth to deliverance from the vestiges of the past. The Theosophical advocacy of Hinduism contributed to an "idealisation of a golden age in Indian history." The Theosophists viewed traditional Indian society as the bearer of an "ideal religion and ethic."[26]

>In Prof. Olav Hammer's opinion, Blavatsky, trying to ascribe the origin of the "perennial wisdom" to the Indians, united "two of the dominant Orientalist discourses" of hers era.

If you like Advaita, you're just a Buddhist with Atman tacked on. Just be a Buddhist, it has much richer epistemology and you don't have to associate with western theosophists and live in constant denial about being a fake Hindu living in Florida.

Daily reminder: Shankara fags are Westernized Theosophyfags in disguise. Real Hindus hate them. Shankara threads are pushing crypto-buddhist Theosophy.