/lit/ - Literature

>>9790566

>fuck off, you forgot to add the part where Epictetus shills his self help book.
>his self help book

He didn't write that book you ignorant pleb. The 'Moral Discourses' are notes that Arrian made of Epictetus' lectures.

>>9684426

The Moral Discourses of Epictetus

>>9675050

Weed and the pleasure of using it is neither good nor bad in the Stoic view, it is merely indifferent.

Accustoming and habituating yourself to find happiness in weed, or any other thing external to your mind, is considered bad.

>"It is unlikely that the good of a snail should be placed in the shell: and is it likely that the good of a man should? You yourself, Epicurus, have something superior to this. What is that in you which deliberates, which examines, which forms the judgment concerning body itself, that it is the principal part? And why do you light your lamp, and labour for us, and write so many books ? That we may not be ignorant of the truth ? What are we? What are we to you?"

>>9595054

>So in your view, famine and cancer are in fact good things because God hasn't eradicated them?

I think they are neither good nor bad but indifferent. Good and bad lies only in our perceptions, thoughts, opinions, and consequent choices, all that is outside your choice is morally indifferent. We have complete control over our own perceptions, thoughts, opinions and consequent choices, and thus our good and our bad are entirely in our own choice.

>"Do you therefore likewise, being sensible of this, inspect the faculties you have, and after taking a view of them, say, " Bring on me now, O' Jupiter, what difficulty thou wilt, for I have faculties granted me by thee, and abilities by which I may acquire honour and ornament to myself."—No; but you sit trembling, for fear this or that should happen; and lamenting, and mourning, and groaning at what doth happen; and then you accuse the gods. For what is the consequence of such a meanspiritedness, but impiety? and yet God hath not only granted us these faculties, by which we may bear every event without being depressed or broken by it; but, like a good prince, and a true father, hath rendered them incapable of restraint, compulsion, or hindrance, and entirely dependent on our own pleasure: nor hath he reserved a power, even to himself, of hindering or restraining them. Having these things free, and your own, will you make no use of them, nor consider what you have received, nor from whom? but sit groaning and lamenting, some of you, blind to him who gave them, and not acknowledging your benefactor; and others, basely turning yourselves to complaints and accusations of God? yet I undertake to show you that you have qualifications and occasions for greatness of soul, and a manly spirit; but what occasions you have to find fault, and complain, do you show me." - Epictetus

>>9154759

The Moral Discourses of Epictetus

He literally says that any philosophy that does not better you as a human being is a waste of time.

>>9121256

The Moral Discourses of Epictetus are the most comprehensive guide to becoming a real man.

>>8629913
>questioning how we should act in rational terms when that's not at all, at all, at all, how people make their decisions

I don't know about the greatest, but he was a the most practical

>>8561088

What was your opinion on the discourses?

>>8485313

Marcus Aurelius helped me as he has helped you.

Epictetus however has helped me immeasurably more. His Moral Discourses are sure to be of good use to you.

>>8473302

These things occur independently of your will - they are beyond your control, and whats more, are inevitable.

You can, however, choose how you react to this knowledge.

Were these things to occur, would it be helpful or advantageous to be paralyzed by anxiety, fear or sadness? No. Is there any situation in which it is useful to be in such a state? No.

You may as well be frightened of the wind or the rain for all the good it'd do you.

>>8415379
>book with protips how to live, how to take care of herself, how to talk to people. I really need this because i want to be better person and live without fear

It's called 'The Moral Discourses of Epictetus'.

You're welcome.

Epictetus' Discourses

>>8329087
Its very important to define what we mean by good and bad. If you were to weigh fruit or vegetables at the supermarket, you'd use an objective, logical system of measurement. Yet when choosing between good and bad, people generally don't use any logical system of measurement. We're capable of being rational, yet we employ a logical system of measurement for differentiating weights, and not for differentiating between good and bad, which is a far more important choice.

>"But most are deceived in the same manner as Theopompus the orator, when he blames Plato for defining everything, " For what," says he, "did none of us, before you, use the words good and /art, or did we utter them as empty sounds, without understanding what each of them meant? " Why, who tells you, Theopompus, that we had not natural ideas and pre-conceptions of each of these? But it is not possible to adapt pre-conceptions to their corre- spondent subjects, without having minutely distinguished them, and examined what is the proper subject to each." - Epictetus

In practice, good is what we perceive to be the most advantageous, and bad what we perceive to be most disadvantageous. Different conceptions of good and bad arise because people have differing opinions as to what their advantage is, and bad occurs when people are mistaken about their advantage.

But how are we to define good and bad in a rational manner, according to a logical system of measurement as rational beings should? We must consider what we mean when we say anything is good or bad, like "this is a good knife" or "this is a bad soap". A good knife cuts well, and a bad soap cleans poorly. Generally speaking then, we call 'good' those things which fulfill their function, or possess a large amount of their definitive quality.

This definition of good is objective, universal and based on reason. To demonstrate this, let's apply it to humans, rather than objects. We must begin by asking, what is the definitive quality of human beings? The rational faculty. Following this logic, a human is good in so far as he is rational, and consequently bad in so far as he is irrational.

>>8315583

You're missing the point entirely.

It's how Socrates made his arguments and reached those conclusions that's most important. Philosophy is a method of thought, and Plato is teaching you that method through exemplary dialogues between Socrates and his peers.

>>8315565

>forms are just definitions

You clearly have no idea what forms are

I think good and evil lies in our choices, and that all else is indifferent. What each person imagines to be the greatest advantage (whether to themselves or society) they think to be good, and the greatest disadvantages to be evil. In that sense, no one believes they are evil, or willingly makes an evil choice.

>>8179441

Your other points were redundant as they didn't acknowledge anything I wrote in the OP. For example:

>5. "Why fear something you don't know anything about" (Death).

Why post this when I posted already in the first sentence in the OP? "He says that death is no evil, and on this I agree."

You simply summarized Socrates arguments, which I have clearly already read, and you failed to respond to or answer any of the arguments I put forward against them.

>>8051896

Γιγνωσkω Ελληνιkά Κασίγνητος εμός.

Χαλεπος εστιν, αλλά εθελω πολλά μανθάνειν.

>morality cannot be discerned by reason

The amount of ignorance in this thread is stunning.

>απ-όλλυω: I kill, destroy
>Απόλλο

BRAVO GREEKS, BRAVO

>I. Of things some are in our power, and others are not. In our power are opinion,
movement toward a thing, desire, aversion (turning from a thing); and in a word,
whatever are our own acts: not in our power are the body, property, reputation,
offices (magisterial power), and in a word, whatever are not our own acts. And the
things in our power are by nature free, not subject to restraint nor hindrance: but
the things not in our power are weak, slavish, subject to restraint, in the control
of others.

>>7881205

I'm too dumb to form my own philosophic beliefs, so I've adopted this fellow's beliefs and I try to live by what he wrote.

>>6661471

I've never read him, but I'm a fan of Epictetus.