/lit/ - Literature

>>11222434
interesting stuff, and thanks for contributing to the thread.

>So much for the capitalist boogyman stealing food from the mouth of innocents.
there is no way you could have read this thread and still concluded that i was making some kind of naive argument against Evil Capitalist Boogeymen. i am not in need of a Peterson Pill to cure me of Bloody Neomarxism.

>Innocent of what? The decreasing poverty rates? The industrialisation that has dragged millions from rural starvation? Define the terms!
this is indeed a good thing. intelligence and industrialization are good. what cannot be defined is what at bottom makes the spice flow: us. and this is not to make some circular argument for You Can't Define Me. pretty much the opposite.

>Again, you're trying to sound Marxist without actually reading what Marx wrote.
this is karatani's text and not mine. i trust his interpretation. we're stuck with capital but you're right, it doesn't necessarily have to determine the form of society. that responsibility rests with the citizens.

however, and this is land's point, libertarianism is an enigma like this. capital wants to be free and maybe always should be. personally, this gives me headaches. i would prefer World Peace, being the boring centrist type that i am. i'm skeptical about that possibility. i do think KK's ideas about a world of gift-exchange are pretty interesting. i *would* prefer that those gifts not be gifts of long-range artillery, but this is probably necessary sometimes.

>This has ever been the case, unless you harbor some rose tinted view of ye olde village past where everyone knows each other and no outside events ever have an impact.

maybe it has. but it's not necessarily a rose-tinted view of ye olde village either. you don't need a rose-tinted view of things. we're all stuck in this finger-trap together, for better or for worse. sometimes i don't like it. i often pine for Fuck You money so that i don't have to think about what other people are doing. i don't think it's an unpopular or original fantasy, either. where our fantasies and dreams of harmonious co-existence and Bitches On My Money fantasies intersect is of interest to me.

i'm not shitting on your post. but you're criticizing me for things that you think i'm saying but which i'm not actually saying. here's what i am saying: civilization makes a faustian bargain with a truly, truly Wild And Crazy process called capitalism, a thing functionally equivalent to sorcery, and the DNA of which is an oroboros loop of Eros and Thanatos. we ride that snake until death do we part from it. black hat wizards like bataille or land come as close as anyone to explaining the origins and telos of this process. as such this is, most emphatically, *not* the time for changing the world but for interpretation. and with maybe some wiggle room for eerie accelerationist forecasting about what this process does to the meatbags that discovered this thing.

>>11180129
>>11180129
Overall, I think the story is incredibly and one of the best tragedy stories ever told, though it would help a lot if some of the characters weren't so borderline retarded at times and if the series didn't connect up with 40K.
For example, Fulgrim and Magnus both retain their usual persona after they turn, but Horus goes villain-of-the-week stupid for no real reason. And that's a bummer, because he and the Emperor are the most fundamental elements.
To say that it' worth reading would be an understatement, because think it's probably the best fantasy series out there. It's just a shame that it became this thing where GW are milking it of control and releasing tons of filler novels and audio dramas and whatever the hell else. They could've done it as a real epic fantasy series with a set number of volumes that your usual reader could approach. Going for a series that's 50 volumes, part of an established IP, and one in which you're warned to avoid the filler a spoilers at the same time is a daunting task. Not to mention that some of the authors are real fucking bad, and even good ones do a miserable job sometimes (ADB fucked up Master of Mankind big time, and he is generally amazing).
But you probably won't find anyone on this board willing to discuss it. /sffg/ is filled with women that read Sanderson and Rothfuss and think it's amazing, and dinosaurs that keep talking about Gene Wolfe and nothing else. And making it a normal threads draws in dumb underage kids like >>11181174.
All of this aside, I thought Fulgrim was overrated as far as HH goes and that others like Know No Fear were surprisingly better than what I heard. All the stuff to do with Lorgar and Magnus is great.